Why is the jobless rate so high for Iraq and Afganistan Veterans? What can be changed to reverse this trend?

Capt Brandon Charters — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 15:38:31 -0400

What needs to change moving forward? Any personal employment stories of your own that show the challenges of finding a job? What advice would you give someone starting at square one?

Why Is the Jobless Rate for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans So High?

During a job interview with Long Island Bus, Marine Corps veteran Tireak Tulloch, who had done two tours in Iraq, recalled the senior manager commenting, “You have a lot of experience. This is an entr...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2013 3:49 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 15:49:15 -0400

As a signal Soldier I have an idea from the tech side why jobless rates are so high. Soldiers believe they are entitled to more than they really are. Just because there are civilian jobs making 6 figures doesn't mean that you will get one. I know guys that have gotten out of the Army and refuse to take a job less than 6 figures because they have experience. Of course you will be jobless if you turn down jobs. Not getting hired at all and not excepting jobs are 2 different things.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2013 3:36 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 15:36:23 -0400

Great question! I agree this is a critical issue. Even more staggering is a figure I heard on the radio recently...female veterans are 4 times more likely than their male counterparts to be homeless. And more likely to have children that are affected by the jobless/homeless issue. So somehow addressing the jobless rate could potentially have an impact with a much larger scope in the coming years. Thanks for pursuing the question!!

Response by SGT JeneAurey Melendez made Oct 30 at 2013 1:46 PM

SGT JeneAurey Melendez — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:46:29 -0400

Junior SM 18-24 years old, who get out with little experience 2-4 yrs make the large part of the 10% of unemployed veterans, Experienced veterans with college degrees actually have less than 4% unemployment rate. Moral of the story, serve longer to attain experience and a degree.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Oct 30 at 2013 2:13 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 14:13:57 -0400

Transferable skills is the first part. Education is the second part. Privatization of support services,S-1, S-2, S-4, and S-6, eliminate most of the skill sets that are required for quality post military positions. Furthermore, because of the op tempo related to deployments, education opportunities while in were restricted, and even with the GI Bill, if there is no support from family after getting out, the ability to take advantage of it is limited.

Another problem you run into, is a lot of first term Soldiers never got back to the stages where they could think for themselves again after the boot indoctrination process. If someone isn't there to tell them what to do with their life or how to do it, some just whither away without the guidance.

Response by SSG John Herman made Oct 30 at 2013 4:44 PM

SSG John Herman — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:44:32 -0400

Check out a new up and coming company starting in the Chicago land area and Indiana. http://www.veteranbeercompany.com The company plans to hire 100% veterans and only work with veteran friendly employers. Join the blog or contact the company. They will be getting bigger and bigger by the year and will hopefully be national in 5-10 years. It is the company's goal to bridge the gap between civilians and veterans by offering them a career in the beverage industry and giving veterans in the transition period after leaving the military access to their benefits for schooling and or a new mission on life.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2013 6:58 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 18:58:02 -0400

My mother and I were talking about this very thing today. I am a Army Vet and now find myself continuing my service with the Guard. Allow me to be very clear here I have never deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, I did go to Bosnia. I have found that even with a degree and my experience in both services I don't get the call or feel that my resume even gets the look that I think it deserves. With that being said I am fully aware that the climate of the job hunt has changed. I just cant get over the feeling that Vets across to board don't fair shake. I believe that being in the Military is a bad check and more so if you continue to serve in the Reserves or Guard . Employers feel that we are so ridged or the fact that we can leave at a moments notice which has happened to me twice in one year they (employers) feel stuck. So why hire us.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Nov 5 at 2013 11:11 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 11:11:53 -0500

Many vets are leaving the military with great experience but they are not fully capitalizing on all of it. Being in the military we use a lot of jargon, and unique terms that civilians look at and say, "that is cool, but what does it mean?" We need to do a better job at using standard private sector terminology on resumes. Another thing is, the under appreciation for many of the skills we think have no value, PMCSing gives you two things skills with tools, and general knowledge of an engine. There are mamy other things we do and take for granted daily, but are valuable somewhere if written the right way on a resume.

Response by SPC William K Wrytght made Nov 5 at 2013 7:39 PM

SPC William K Wrytght — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 19:39:53 -0500

my last job was a little easy my manager was a Vet also, which made hiring me easier, But I believe that we need some thing like a halfway house for soldiers getting to leave the military, when I was discharged, I was ready to go back in. going from a soldier to civilain was kinka hard for me. But soldiers getting out should look into going to work for the VA, My last visit to the VA hospital a lot of people were wearing red tags saying I am a veteran serving our veterans. From cashiers to Doctors, that is just an Idea, But what I love about the VA, a lot of people say thank you for your service. Which is more than you will here on the streets these days.

Response by SGT Jamell Culbreath made Nov 6 at 2013 3:19 PM

SGT Jamell Culbreath — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:19:58 -0500

There are a lot of reasons why the unemployment rate is so high among Iraqi and Afghanistan Vets is because the civilian sector has not been educated on the value of Veterans. Also, the military's TAP program does not adequately provide you with the resources that will help you to be successful in the civilian world. I hear a lot about transferable skills, but I believe Veterans have a difficult time transferring their skills. This is where the military, VA, etc should come in and assist Vets with making themselves more marketable, especially leaders. I have a MBA and still have had a difficult time finding full time employment.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Nov 20 at 2013 1:15 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:15:08 -0500

Read an interesting article today. http://www.forbes.com/sites/shaunso/2012/10/18/the-single-most-devastating-flaw-in-corporate-veteran-hiring-initiatives/

The Single Most Devastating Flaw In Hiring Veterans

Were you enlisted or a commissioned officer? As of September, the unemployment rate among post 9-11 veterans is 9.1%. While lower than the 11.7% from a year ago, it's still significantly higher than t...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2013 5:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:06:41 -0500

Civilian employers need better understanding of the situation. Somebody needs to come up with a power point and teach them and make them understand the facts.

Response by SGT Richard Schumacher made Nov 26 at 2013 5:23 PM

SGT Richard Schumacher — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:23:14 -0500

I think there are sometimes inconsistencies in how vets look at obtaining a new career. I just read a "success" story about an AF vet who was medically retired after 16 years. He had obtained one degree while in the service and got another one on VocRehab after he got out. He successfully got a position as a security guard. Two degrees and 16 years to rate a $23k a year job. The problem was though that he got the degree in corrections, probably because VocRehab requires you to get the most easily obtainable degree and Corrections will usually fit the bill.

But with 16 years as a maintainer he should have went for an A&P degree from Embry Riddle or something. That would have made him much more marketable while including his experience.

Focus on a career that encompasses what you already have and augment it with what you need. 16 years in is not the time to 180deg. on your career plan.

Response by SrA Zachary Bolling made Feb 21 at 2014 12:08 PM

SrA Zachary Bolling — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:08:50 -0500

Even though it has been nearly 6 years since the end of my term in the USAF I remember how hard it was and how hard it STILL is to find work. I scored very well on my ASVAB, I have an above average IQ, I did very well on my SATs and ACTs in high school. I even have great experience from the military that I believe has helped me with dealing with any amount of stress I have encountered. AS a cop in the military I have good personal and vocal skills including verbal judo and interrogation tactics. Everything about my history should grant me a position almost anywhere. I had nothing but trouble finding ANY work. I was not looking for management or anything either. I even applied at the local grocery store and Home Depot, who supposedly is supposed to cater to military. I never got a second meeting or a chance to meet someone face to face.

After going through all of that I realized that people love the military and like giving them jobs.....unless you had a combat oriented career field. You become a liability in most employers eyes. I don't know if there is any way to overcome this setback. The combat veterans should not have to lie and say that they didn't experience combat. I may be unaware of a program that caters specifically to combat veterans but if there is such a thing, that would be invaluable to those combat veterans re-entering the civilian workforce.

Luckily I have made it to a position where I can have some say as to who my company hires and I will make it a point to not discriminate against any Veteran especially those from the combat oriented fields.

This is a very good question and I actually think it lacks the attention it deserves from national media and politics. Less than 1% of the country joins the military and less than 1% is in a combat oriented field. This is a special community that deserves a lot more than what they receive.

Thank You

Response by MSgt Robert Deitrich made Feb 21 at 2014 1:02 PM

MSgt Robert Deitrich — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:02:49 -0500

I recommend using civilians you work with in the service to Help you get a job. I got a job doing what my military job was only as a civilian or try the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 1:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:09:56 -0500

It is a tight economy right now and, as the interviewer said at the beginning of the article, it was an entry level job and the Marine was above that experience level.  Businesses are looking to cut costs and often feel that the entry level, recent college/tech school grad is a safer bet for long-term employment.  If they hire a person with more experience, they are afraid you will jump to a higher paying position at the first opportunity.  I agree, it seems unfair but that is the current environment.  Unfortunately, it is only going to get worse as we move into the heart of this most recent round of military drawdowns.

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Feb 21 at 2014 1:35 PM

TSgt Scott Hurley — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:35:40 -0500

This is a great question. One of the reasons is that, and I read it in an article a few months back, is that the employers think that all of them have PTSD. Which is not 100% true. Some of the other things that were mentioned was Veterans as a whole, are too rigid, we do not conform, we have a military mindset. And others I can not remember. I know that Pres. Obama signed, I think it was an executive order, a few years back what was to give the Iraq and Afghanistan Vets higher preferential treatment than regular Vets that did not go to either of them. It also becomes apparent that most employers just do not want hire Vets due to anti-military sentiment. That last one is few and far between. Now with Obamacare, employers it seems are really putting the breaks on hiring. I know I have applied to military friendly companies (Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Sears (used to work for them before entering the service)), and they did not hire me. Even though I filled out everything correctly. And I am not an Iraq or Afghanistan Vet.

I have been told my resume is fine as it is by several people. Including my mother who works in HR at a Hospital. So what is on the resume is important, but if they do not have a whole lot to go for them, like a degree or some sort of skill then it makes it more difficult for them to get a job. And I will say this. Just because you have the qualifications for a job, if it requires a degree and there is no clause stating in lieu of a degree. The chances of getting that job is slim.

In today's job market, we are all in a load of hurt. Regardless of whether your an Iraq Afghan Vet, or a 9/11 vet. Its hard all around. I still am unable to secure a job. I am currently going back to school to get my degree in IT.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Feb 21 at 2014 4:58 PM

CPO Greg Frazho — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:58:16 -0500

Some businesses and corporations claim to be 'veteran friendly.' The reality is, some are and some aren't, despite their self-proclaimed status. If you really mean it, you really need to practice it. That means you take on veterans warts and all. From an HR point of view, that's a calculated risk. But, as the saying goes, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Bottom line: practice what you preach. Or shut up.

Response by SPC Eric Chambers made Mar 10 at 2014 11:37 PM

SPC Eric Chambers — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:37:38 -0400

That's a great question & I have a very simple answer, So many Veterans getting out simply do not have the knowledge of what is waiting for them in the civilian sector or are led in a hopeless direction upon leaving. Anyone who would like a business success info kit email me at [login to see]

Response by CPT Catherine R. made Mar 22 at 2014 10:39 PM

CPT Catherine R. — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 22:39:08 -0400

Talk to friends who successfully transitioned, find out what worked for them. Go on informational interviews when you can, use your resources and be prepared to take a cut in pay to get into the civilian sector. Too many former Soldiers think they are going to walk into the Federal Government as senior level GS's or are going to walk into the civilian sector making insane salaries. While it can happen, it's not likely. I worked for the Federal Government for 7.5 years and started as a GS05, I worked my way up to GS11 prior to leaving the feds. I had to work my way up the food chain though. My promotions were all based on my knowledge and showing I knew how to do the next levels job.

Network, Network, Network! That is often the key to your next position. As a hiring manager for my former position I can honestly say that about half of my staff came to me via word of mouth and personal referrals. Those were the ones that worked out the best. I hired one lady sight unseen and she is probably the best employee there, if it wasn't for her supervisor telling me about her I likely wouldn't have looked twice at her resume.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2014 7:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jul 2014 19:41:11 -0400

I think the stigma that surrounds PTSD, thanks to the media and ignorant morons, is a contributing factor.

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Aug 5 at 2014 12:34 PM

SGT Jay Ehrenfeld — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:34:08 -0400

Sir, there is two version of the veteran's combat and peacetime vet, peacetime vet will get hired more quickly then the combat Veteran like myself. That where the hiring manager got their orders from the upper crest. it more then status of a person and not on their performance. because of the false rumor that the left did back in the 70's while Vietnam veteran's it my generation whose cause this and nobody tell them where the proof of their claims but yet if a civilian is will get hired even through vet like myself have a college degree

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Sep 17 at 2014 10:27 AM

Cpl Robert Masi — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:27:11 -0400

I think a lot has to do with this notion that you need a 4 year education to work anywhere. Enlisted are looked at as idiots, and often don't apply for positions that say your need a 4 yr degree.

But, I'm here to say, I've found most employers I've dealt with, prefer military over some college kid with a general 4 yr degree. They under estimate themselves.

Secondly, we have another issue. Lets be honest, you don't need a high intelligence to be in many MOSes. These are people that would typically join the 'Blue Collar' work force.
Well, due to Corporate income tax being 44% and Unions making it practically impossible for companies to make products in America that can be sold at a competitive rate, there are less jobs....so that's another issue.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Dec 21 at 2014 11:04 PM

SPC Leisel Luman — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 23:04:48 -0500

My first suggestion after long and multiple deployments is resist the urge to get home ASAP. Address any and all medical issues before going home even if it means med hold for a while. This post deployment physical is needed. Even with only 10% VA rating you can qualify for Vocational Rehabilitation. These services are incredible. They can pay for civilian certifications, education, licensing, self employment, business start ups and help you work around anything blocking your employment. I can not say enough about this program whose only purpose is to support you and your goals it's worth the trouble and paperwork. That was my experience. I hope this helps

Response by SSG Everett Wilson made Dec 22 at 2014 6:04 AM

SSG Everett Wilson — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:04:57 -0500

The unemployment rate for those who served on active duty in the U.S. Armed forces since September 2001 and discharged before 2014 — a 2.8 million-strong “Gulf War II” vets — had a 9% unemployment rate last year (versus 9.9% in 2012) compared with a national average last year of 7.3%, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data (pdf). It was better for all veterans: 6.6% (versus 7% in 2012), and has presumably fallen since then along with the overall average (the national unemployment rate is now 5.8%). Among the 722,000 unemployed veterans in 2013, 60% were age 45 and over and 35% were age 25 to 44. “We don’t have a lot of call for military men in corporate America,” says Garland Williams, 55, vice. president of military relations at the University of Phoenix;