Why is it that officers are considered unprofessional who wear mustaches?

2014-10-31T14:20:53-04:00

Why is it that officers are considered unprofessional who wear mustaches? I have come from an NCO background of 10 years before becoming an officer and one of the first things I was told was lose the mustache. what is so different from having a mustache as an NCO to an officer

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 2:24 PM

2014-10-31T14:24:59-04:00

I got to where I am meeting the standard and even exceeding them majority of the time. For a mustache to over shadow a officers worth I feel is almost childish in most ways. It reflects the good-o-boy system which politics is the reason we make our own suffering. What you think?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 3:12 PM

2014-10-31T15:12:50-04:00

I just don't like them anyway. Now beards? I can get behind beards in uniform. I just don't want to be stationed at the 1/509th in Ft. Polk to be able to wear one.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Oct 31 at 2014 3:17 PM

2014-10-31T15:17:58-04:00

It's an unspoken rule. Something along the lines of "gentlemen are clean shaven." Similar to officers not wearing marksmanship badges and 2LTs not saluting 1LTs. No one is really going to ding you for having a moustache (I've seen plenty of officers who have them), but is is much rarer for us to sport facial hair than our NCO collegues.

Response by SGT Ray Reese made Oct 31 at 2014 3:46 PM

2014-10-31T15:46:44-04:00

I think they can as long as its with-in the regunal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 4:06 PM

2014-10-31T16:06:32-04:00

If the reg says you can have it then wear it

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Oct 31 at 2014 4:14 PM

2014-10-31T16:14:10-04:00

It is just one of those "unwritten rules" of the Officer Corps. While I never "prohibited" any of my officers from having a mustache, I have commented on the ones who had them on occasion in a "nice" manner that I thought it may be better if they did not. I think I said something like "I would never purposely grow anything on my face that grows wild on my ass", or words to that effect... :-) I think they got the message.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-10-31T18:47:38-04:00

As COL Jean (John) F. B. said, I think it's just about an unwritten rule that mustaches don't "go" on officers. They might get by with it, but I wouldn't want to have my official photo with a mustache. I think it could be a discriminator, and not in a good way.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-10-31T18:47:40-04:00

keep it within uniform regulations and grooming standards, rock the 'stache sir

Response by SGT Patrick McCullough made Oct 31 at 2014 7:08 PM

2014-10-31T19:08:05-04:00

I would assume that if it looks like a porstache or makes you look sleezy, weird or non executive then maybe it's not a good idea. Think in your mind, would an executive in business culture wear a mustache and how would that mustache look. You sir look like danny Glover from Lethal weapon, so who cares. LOL

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 8:55 PM

2014-10-31T20:55:51-04:00

1LT Ellington...I had the same speech from ROTC to private to Captain and Sergeant Major (I was both ranks at the same time [AR 600-39]). PreWWII, long hair and mustaches were seen as signs of non-conformity and rebellion. When power and control are issues, anything that makes you unique is a pop-up target. Even the current regulations that can make a mustache look like Hitler's own ignores the fact that the history of warfare has always included facial hair without much question until mainly WWII in the AMERICAN Army. In WWI, the advent of gas warfare and gas masks began to make beards and staches go out of fashion...Brits, Canadians, and French and many more (Prussians, Russians, Germans) all had some authorization for bears and mustaches. By that time, women also favored a smooth face and advertising jumped on the bandwagon....

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 9:11 PM

2014-10-31T21:11:16-04:00

See my related discussion: Should soldiers have hair?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 9:13 PM

2014-10-31T21:13:23-04:00

Everyone should have a stache, if they can wear one.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Oct 31 at 2014 10:55 PM

2014-10-31T22:55:52-04:00

Yeah you don't get a mustache,
But you can call your fellow officer friends by their first names. So you lost something, but you gained something else in return!

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Nov 1 at 2014 8:18 AM

2014-11-01T08:18:47-04:00

I sported one from the time I graduated OSUT in '88 till the day I retired 26 years later...as for the officer thing, I suppose somewhere along the way it was deemed beneath them to sport hair over the upper lip, too Plebeian I suppose!!!

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Nov 1 at 2014 10:12 AM

2014-11-01T10:12:21-04:00

I say neutral because, historically speaking, it gave him character, as long as it was neat. On female officers, however, no. I do not know when mustaches and beards became taboo in the military, but again, it makes more sense in combat to wear them (unless it interferes with equipment) than in garrison where appearance is more important.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 5:03 PM

2014-11-01T17:03:38-04:00

The question is, whether or not having unwritten rules are conducive to good order and discipline. Does this enhance a culture of trust and nurture leaders among the officer corps. Is there room for personal preference outside the regulation that is enforced unofficially? It is a slippery slope and indicative of certain pettiness we have allowed to thrive in our current culture. I for one wore a mustache for years. I had successful tours as Plt Ldr, Co Cdr, Bn S3 and BDE S3, all with a mustache. Got top blocks and awards all the way up to Bronze Star with a mustache. Yet, when I went to board for LTC; I shaved it off. I wanted to insure I wouldn't get judged harshly by a mustache nazi, and be non-select over something that "grows wild on my ass", as the COL so eloquently put it. It must have worked, since I am DA select. Therefore, you have to know your audience.I have since kept the mustache off, not because of the officer corps haters, but because my wife didn't like getting poked by it when we kissed. Apparently your beard and mustache get a little more "rigid" with age.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 1:48 AM

2014-11-02T01:48:09-04:00

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member As I see it the military wants to maintain as much separation as they can between officer and enlisted. So these little clean-cut images.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 1:06 AM

2014-11-02T01:06:07-05:00

In my time as a civilian, we had this same bias against facial hair. Most high-level managers and CEOs don't have 'staches, but it's fine for the entry-level worker bees to have them.

I agree with this bias. When something is cleanly cut (grass, hedges, hair), it seems likely that the person charged with maintaining it is detail-oriented, thinks ahead, and puts thought and energy into the effort. So yes, if my commander is clean-shaven, he will gain my respect more quickly than if he weren't.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 2:20 AM

2014-11-02T02:20:18-05:00

Our facial hair regulations are stupid in general. My home station is located in a part of the country that is suffering a drought so bad that there are entire communities without water, and were each wasting gallons every day on a superficial grooming standard. Call it what you will, I don't have the time to judge a superior's leadership abilities on how he or she looks.

Unless we're in MOPP levels 0 - 4, what's the point of these baby faces?

SSgt D. - mustache wearer extraordinaire.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 3:48 AM

2014-11-02T03:48:29-05:00

I guess its a culture thing. It seemed like before WWI, officers were expected to have commanding beards. I am Neutral on it. On some people like me, look stupid with one but others can pull it off. I always dreaded mustache march because I don't wear one well.

Response by SSG Andrew Dydasco made Nov 2 at 2014 5:09 AM

2014-11-02T05:09:31-05:00

Look at your Chain of Command pictures. Chances are no more than maybe one of the officers (usually the Senior NCOs as well) will be sporting a mustache.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 6:39 AM

2014-11-02T06:39:18-05:00

See my profile picture.....

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 2 at 2014 6:55 AM

2014-11-02T06:55:16-05:00

It's up there with O's not wearing marksmanship badges, some unwritten "rule" that has taken on a life of its own.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 8:30 AM

2014-11-02T08:30:17-05:00

As long as they are within the regulation, I don't see a problem.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 8:57 AM

2014-11-02T08:57:00-05:00

As a career Soldier, I've spent all my time in light airborne units until recently and I grew up knowing mustaches are a no-go. To me it's a sign of being too lazy to completely shave a face or that you're either a mechanic and a mechanized Soldier. Being clean shaven looks more professional too, that's my opinion.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Nov 2 at 2014 9:34 AM

2014-11-02T09:34:01-05:00

Facial Armor is a choice. Some can get away with it. The rest are jealous.
Below is the picture from my unit for Moustache March 2014. Only of the guys who participated. I am front row, 3rd from left.

And you will notice the tribute picture of BGen Robin Olds-legendary moustache wearer.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 9:55 AM

2014-11-02T09:55:36-05:00

In the infantry it is a mark of disdain. I recall a guy that just got back from SFAS with a mustache. In the first PT formation he was at the 1SG called him out and told him to go inside and shave it off asap then come back to formation. He was a SSG. It was funny but it is pretty rare to see a SSG get called out like that.

Response by SCPO Albert Lee Smith made Nov 2 at 2014 11:25 AM

2014-11-02T11:25:39-05:00

I think that, when moving from Enlisted to Officer, it is understood that you are now taking a more "corporate" role, where the "clean cut" image is more appropriate. While there is no specific regulation prohibiting the wearing of a mustache as a Officer (at least I don't think there is), if not constantly maintained, it can get unprofessional looking very quickly.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 12:23 PM

2014-11-02T12:23:33-05:00

I went through the same thing. It was my first year of ROTC at NC State. I was walking into the building in civilian clothes when I was approached by the SMI. He said, "Officers don't wear mustaches." From the point, 4 years ago, never had a mustache. I guess its just one of those old traditions that we do in the Army.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 5:13 PM

2014-11-02T17:13:32-05:00

This is an interesting topic to discuss. Thank you for posting this discussion.

I acknowledge and understand the "unwritten rule" which disapproves commissioned officers from sporting a mustache, however, I do not see any significant issue(s) arising from viewing, or being a subordinate of an officer who may have a mustache. The United States Army upholds a myriad of traditions that have been upheld throughout its time, and I respect those very traditions that we all cherish.

Yet, I personally feel that having a mustache as an officer which adheres to AR 670-1 is perfectly fine. I view sporting a mustache akin to having a left-side sweep in one's hair style, or choosing to shave their heads bald, i.e. an individual preference in style. As for myself, I do not foresee myself growing a mustache, however, I won't stereotype or otherwise negatively judge an individual if they do have one. Rather, I will judge someone based on their professional character, work ethic, and performance.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 5:52 PM

2014-11-02T17:52:39-05:00

Personally I don't grow a mustache because it seems like a pain to make sure it stays within the bounds allowed by AR 670-1. While I am not looking to sport the walrus mustache look, the regulation does seem particularly restrictive.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Nov 2 at 2014 5:59 PM

2014-11-02T17:59:40-05:00

When I went in the Navy in 1980, mustaches and beards were very common with officers and enlisted, but only on ships. You couldn't tell military from civilian by looking at appearance. I guess things have changed a lot.

Response by LtCol Jason Davis made Nov 2 at 2014 6:27 PM

2014-11-02T18:27:29-05:00

The services have regulations and as long as you are within regulations there is nothing wrong with having a mustache. I have been in the Corps for 30+ years and an Officer for 17. Other than my tour with HMX-1, while at TBS and in 2012 I have worn a mustache and will retire with one. In HMX-1 there was an unwritten rule that we did not wear mustaches the same was true in TBS, in 2012 I just decided to try something new. Basically, what I am saying is to keep it in regulation and there is no problem. If you find that your Reporting Senior has an issue then you may have to make a decision.

Response by CPT Jeremy Smith made Nov 2 at 2014 8:36 PM

2014-11-02T20:36:22-05:00

It is just something that has happened over the years. There is no reg against them and I could not care less personally. I even sported one for a very short time but for the most part I do not see officers with them.

Response by PO1 Roderick MacLeod made Nov 2 at 2014 9:50 PM

2014-11-02T21:50:46-05:00

I wonder if Black Jack Pershing and Admiral Dewey told their subordinate officers to shave them off.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 8:40 AM

2014-11-03T08:40:18-05:00

I have worn a mustache several times while an officer (and wear it pretty well if I do say so!), but with the headache of maintaining it within AR 670-1, I would rather have the ease of being cleanshaven.
Regarding professionalism, it seems to me that much of this comes from the 'unkempt' appearance any kind of hair that is not maintained well would present. My father grew a mustache as a young LT in Vietnam and kept it through the 1980s when he finally shaved it off for good (he retired from the Army in 1993). Looking back on old pictures, there are some where he looks unkempt, but I have no reason to doubt his professionalism with or without the mustache! In my own experience, those that met me cleanshaven made their opinion of me and my abilities as such. After I would grow a 'stache, did that mean I was no longer as 'good' as I was before? Of course not!
I understand the reasons for short hair on our heads and our faces, but as long as it is kept well groomed, why not allow mustaches?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 10:34 AM

2014-11-03T10:34:10-05:00

I've never noticed that issue. I was just commissioned after 12 years enlisted service. I think I'll report to my next command with a mustache and see what happens.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 11:02 AM

2014-11-03T11:02:25-05:00

Facial hiar dosent make the man thier qualities as a leader make the man.

Response by SPC Judy P. made Nov 3 at 2014 11:35 AM

2014-11-03T11:35:25-05:00

I don't see the problem.. Regulations states how it is to be worn... There is no way it is considered unprofessional. It actually shows more maturity

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 12:09 PM

2014-11-03T12:09:09-05:00

It takes me forever to grow a good mustache, so I don't do it very often, but I have done it in the past and am planning on sporting one for our annual Movember celebration.

Response by 1SG Gerald Palmer made Nov 3 at 2014 1:18 PM

2014-11-03T13:18:17-05:00

Whats does it matter

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 2:51 PM

2014-11-03T14:51:08-05:00

MUSTACHES FOR ALL!

Response by LTC Charles Sherman made Nov 3 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-11-03T15:36:48-05:00

Could I not have made O-6 because I have a 'stache? The world may never know, although I did shave it off...for the first time in 30 years...for my DA photo as an LTC, because I was 'advised' that the O-6 boards didn't like facial hair of any kind. (See above for the only known photo of me without lip hair, since 1981!). In the end it didn't matter, since I never went to the board, for several good reasons. And if I hadn't been in the MEB/PEB pipeline after my last deployment, my new DA/board photo would have had the 'stache.

Other than that, I've never had a problem with my 'stache. If anyone looked down on my for it, they never said anything where I could hear. And it obviously didn't keep me from getting promoted to O-5. Perhaps it's just a sign of the "lower standards" for Reserve soldiers, but I never considered it a big deal at all and none of my bosses did either. Keeping it within regs was never a problem because I kept it right. Having a mustache never seemed to affect my competence or mission performance, so I find any prejudice against them to be kind of ridiculous.

My wife's first response to my bare lip, when I shaved it off, was "grow it back"! And I did.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 3:54 PM

2014-11-03T15:54:13-05:00

Most Officer's that do it seem to be joking, such as "the combat 'stache", hence it is taken as a joke.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Nov 3 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-11-03T17:02:32-05:00

Just a little unprofessional piloting with my mustache, patches on the helmet and well..........

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 1:39 AM

2014-11-04T01:39:11-05:00

I really don't like them most of the time, really any time other than while deployed. If you are going to be different from the crowd and stand out, then you better be extremely competent, if not you are going to be singled out for being different.
I have enjoyed pushing regulations and unwritten rules from time to time, keeping more hair than 4 or 5 CSMs combined on top of my head, or shaving it all off and growing a mustache while deployed, and looking goofy. You just have to be you, but if you are going to stand out be the absolutely best at your job, because performance matters more than anything.

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made Nov 4 at 2014 1:46 AM

2014-11-04T01:46:41-05:00

Why is it such a question as to O's with mustaches? The bigger question should be Mustaches vs AR 670-1? AR 670-1 says you can any male Soldier may a mustache; however "un-written" rules say No for Officers, Highly Not Recommended during NCOES, No for Senior NCOs and in some Division SOPs.

I wore my mustache for most of my 22y but admit I played the game an shaved a time or two ... like for DA Photos; but why? Are they authorized or not? I they are such a bad thing why authorize in the first place? That's like saying that despite AR 670-1 requirements the only expectable haircut is a "High-n-Tight"

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 11:06 AM

2014-11-04T11:06:46-05:00

This is the first I've heard about a perception difference between officers and NCOs regarding mustaches.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 11:13 AM

2014-11-04T11:13:50-05:00

This has been previously discussed. But I'll add what I've said before. If you think you're somehow more professional than this guy with his handle-bar, quit drinking the Kool-Aid:
http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/3158/millett-lewis-l.php
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/millett.html

CMOHS.org - Captain MILLETT, LEWIS L., U.S. Army

Response by CSM David Heidke made Nov 4 at 2014 12:56 PM

2014-11-04T12:56:10-05:00

I don't care if you have a mustache or not. But you better wear it right. I can't judge too much from your picture but maybe it's a little too wide.

If an officer in my unit has an out of spec cookie duster, they are gonna hear about it from me.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Nov 4 at 2014 3:14 PM

2014-11-04T15:14:44-05:00

You were told to remove it because the person who told you obviously didnt look good in one, jealousy,jealousy jealousy, I say if you keep it within reg's why not, its a good role model for others to follow.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Nov 4 at 2014 3:15 PM

2014-11-04T15:15:50-05:00

Does this still apply during no shave November however?

I cannot grow a beard to participate, so I was thinking of at least letting the upper lip grow out a bit.

This has always been one of those strange standards that I do not understand, but I usually follow what the boss wants me to do in the regards to facial hair, since I have no real opinion one way or the other.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 9:13 PM

2014-11-04T21:13:20-05:00

The Major that I work for has one and takes grief from the Brig Gen in our Chain quite a bit about it. It's good for lots of jokes though. His wifes says she likes it though so...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 9:14 PM

2014-11-04T21:14:47-05:00

Diversity is the best flavor of our military and nation. I NEVER sport a "Stashe" but for Mo-VEMBER I am growing one to raise money and awareness for prostate cancer and normally male-based diseases.

I figured if I can run a 5K in Midtown Atlanta wearing a pink tutu to raise money for Breast Cancer - I can grow a moustache in MOVEMBER. http://mobro.co/chriskehl

It's going to be a hairy journey and I'm looking for friends to join me. I want YOU to join my Movember team and help change the face of men's health: http://moteam.co/lucas-group-s-mo-vember

~Chris aka MAJ K

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 3:04 AM

2014-11-05T03:04:01-05:00

This story has inspired me, and since it's Mo-vember....this is going to happen! haha

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 3:17 AM

2014-11-05T03:17:48-05:00

Job proformance outweights any face hair

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 5:43 AM

2014-11-05T05:43:23-05:00

I think a mustache can look professional. Just have to keep it within regs.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Nov 5 at 2014 9:50 AM

2014-11-05T09:50:57-05:00

I don't care unless the commander is a SHE.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 5 at 2014 10:08 AM

2014-11-05T10:08:37-05:00

I never grew one while on active duty because I felt the regulation left you with a Hitler style mustache and that wasn't for me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 11:54 AM

2014-11-05T11:54:30-05:00

Mustaches save lives!!! Seen it with my own eyes!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 12:02 PM

2014-11-05T12:02:12-05:00

I'm not an officer so I'm not a qualified spokesman but while deployed in Afghanistan my company grew war staches when we first arrived and started our route clearance missions. Including Officers but I'm sure the rule is slacked while in country!

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Nov 5 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-11-05T12:39:29-05:00

AR670-1 is the last word. Other than that, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. As a SNCO I was told a couple times to get rid of mine, but I never did. It takes a little more than hair under the nose to be non-professional.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 12:53 PM

2014-11-05T12:53:56-05:00

I think it depends on your unit's culture. In the Air Force, there's an unwritten rule that says that officers don't wear ribbons in their blues when they don't wear the service coat. I've seen many prior-enlisted officers that wear their ribbons, but the majority don't.

Also in the Air Force, many members, officer and enlisted alike, grow mustaches in March to honor the legacy of Robin Olds, one of the greatest leaders/fighter pilots in the Air Force's short history.

Response by PO3 Christopher Saucedo made Nov 5 at 2014 1:04 PM

2014-11-05T13:04:21-05:00

It should not matter either way. It is just individuals dictating how they feel others should appear in a given position.

Response by PO1 Ron Clark made Nov 5 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-11-05T13:12:26-05:00

I joined the Navy when even beards were legal, without a chit! I have seen many officers with mustaches, always properly groomed and trimmed. I say if it's not against the regs., then face furniture should not be a problem, with all of the other problems in the military.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 2:45 PM

2014-11-05T14:45:25-05:00

I can only recall seeing one Officer wearing a mustache. A Captain I used to work with told me that it was frowned upon. One of those unwritten rules.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 5 at 2014 3:30 PM

2014-11-05T15:30:47-05:00

If someone shows me how to block faces with those "black squares", I will show you some GLORIOUS combat CAV staches on our pilots when we went to play with Saddam in early 2003. I am talking......GLORIOUS!!!

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Nov 5 at 2014 8:28 PM

2014-11-05T20:28:48-05:00

My boss (wife) won't allow one even when I do retire some day.

Response by Cpl Kenneth Ledbetter made Nov 6 at 2014 3:14 PM

2014-11-06T15:14:11-05:00

This is because most of the women can't grow a good mustaches. Looks back in military history, most of our great leaders had facial hair, look at Vietnam pics of combat veterans, facial hair. What's wrong with a man looking manly, officer or not.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 7:50 AM

2015-06-19T07:50:11-04:00

I don't see how it really matters either way. Why would it be considered unprofessional

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 16 at 2018 9:19 AM

2018-07-16T09:19:52-04:00