Why is it all the people that were whining around crying, "I didn't sign up for this" while on deployment are now claiming they Volunteered?

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:16:14 -0500

I have noticed a giant change in military personnel and how they talk about deployment now that they are at a minimum. In 01 almost everyone wanted to go, by 04 there was a lot of "I didn't sign up for this," and by 05 it was f**k this I'm out. In 07 when I got out, troops were wore out, and deployment rumors caused AWOL en masse.
Today I hear a lot of "I volunteered for all of my deployments" and "Man, I am trying to get deployed" or "Your lucky, I wish I could get over there"
Why is the shift so dramatic?

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 31 at 2015 4:21 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:21:35 -0500

Interesting viewpoint. Being out during this whole war I only saw the first and last of your stages reported in the media. I saw plenty of the other attitudes in Viet Nam, but we did not have an all-volunteer force then.

Response by CPL Randy Bautista made Dec 31 at 2015 4:21 PM

CPL Randy Bautista — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:21:53 -0500

Deployment are more of a daycare then during the surge for the most part. And being a fobit is a normal thing now you have large number of forward units just doing duty similar. There isn't a whole lot of fighting compared to when the initial war started

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Dec 31 at 2015 4:27 PM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:27:30 -0500

The benefits of being a "war hero." Society has changed since the Vietnam War (some say skirmish) and many don't know anyone in the military. It is off for them to relate.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Dec 31 at 2015 4:27 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:27:31 -0500

Perceptions change once you are away from danger in the comfort of home and you see the recognition that service members get so naturally desires for wanting that set in. The Al Bundy effect of leaving in his glory days.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 4:29 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:29:50 -0500

Trying to change their tune so that they aren't seen as whiners, maybe?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 4:32 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:32:45 -0500

Different generations, different reason for enlisting/ commissioning, at the end of the day who really knows why.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Dec 31 at 2015 4:41 PM

SSG Keith Cashion — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:41:01 -0500

Mine was always "When Uncle Sammy Calls, just tell me when, were and let's get moving. It was funny back in 03 when we were ramping up to go and all of a sudden, there were so many pregnancies, contentious objectors, and whatever excuse they could come up with to get out of deploying. It was always funny to hear "I didn't sign up for this...I just wanted the G.I.Bill." And like you, after the deployments were over, it was a totally different out look. Not all, but a lot came back with such a sense of entitlement because they did their job, that the world owes them everything.

I came back with the thought, that Thank God, I was able to fulfill my mission and get my team back to their families in one piece physically, as to mentally, that is another story. One that I still have issues with.

I think with some of the recruits now a days, you need to break out the Crayola's to make sure they understand what they are doing before they raise that right hand.

Half Nickel of the Day

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Dec 31 at 2015 4:49 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:49:33 -0500

I volunteered in 99 to 06. Took a Oath so getting deployed is part of that period. I deployed to Iraq 13 months ran wrecker support every other day on convoys. Did not take leave to the states or any where else. My CO said you must take leave. I told her unless u order me to I,have a job here and won't leave til our time is done. She would not order me to take,leave. My Mom and dad under stood that I did the same in S Korea. For those who went on any branch of service then did not want to deploy they never should have taken the oath.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Dec 31 at 2015 5:11 PM

LTC John Shaw — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:11:51 -0500

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen It is human nature to complain. I when the deployment pace was one year in the box and one year off, it was too much. So I get it. Now so few are actually getting deployed, I really won't tolerate it. I am heading back overseas for the third time in ten years, pretty reasonable considering we have been in a war the entire time. If you are going back to the box, good for you, try to make a difference for your unit and peers.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Dec 31 at 2015 5:14 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:14:27 -0500

Years ago when I was a newly commissioned officer, a man from my church was very interested in my service and what I would be doing. He had served in the Air Force and at that time, he worked on an assembly line at Caterpillar. My mom said that for him, his military service was probably the most exciting thing he would ever do with his life and wanted to relive those memories. As I have now retired, I can fully understand what she meant. I think for many that deployed, it will be one of the most significant things they will do in their lives. So as much as it may have sucked then, it is now something to reflect back on. I think with time, the negative memories become less and the positive things grow. Even in 2004 after I returned from my first mobilization as are reserve officer, my civilian job did not seem to have the same importance. Attitudes and memories do change with time. So I don't think it is as much of a dramatic shift as you state but a matter of time.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 31 at 2015 5:24 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:24:05 -0500

Based on the framing of the question? 1. Observation bias, unless you have hard stats behind these assessments its likely just what's noticeable while looking for it.Even if there were hard stats to it: 2. Seen and unseen: people who "didnt sign up for this" 04-07 are now out, people who enjoyed what they did stayed in and new people who didn't deploy now want to.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 5:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:26:26 -0500

It wasn't what they thought it was going to be!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 5:49 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:49:08 -0500

I haven't noticed this attitude. What I have noticed is an increasing demand by veterans that their service be placed on a pedestal. I find that attitude to be disgusting.

Response by CSM William Payne made Dec 31 at 2015 5:54 PM

CSM William Payne — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:54:17 -0500

This is a volunteer military, by that very fact everybody volunteers for deployment by raising their hand and swearing the Oath of Enlistment / Commissioning. Last time I checked the last drafted Soldier had retired. There was a huge paradigm shift after 9/11 for the reasons for joining the military. The reason for the change in attitude over the past 14 years, human nature.

Response by 1SG Timothy Trewin made Dec 31 at 2015 6:06 PM

1SG Timothy Trewin — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:06:01 -0500

I think it depends some. There are many who never knew anything but the ARFORGEN cycle and now that it is winding down they realize that deployments were not as bad as they thought it was. In 04 there were still many in who joined the Army pre war and they never actually thought they would have to deploy. Thankfully a good number of them got out. Heck I remember when I was a young SPC hearing a SSG openly say that she did not join the Army to deploy. They are out there. But by and large the deployment life is much preferred to garrison life to those who have experienced both (at least from my personal experiences) and although being away from home sucked in many ways deployment was better.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 6:21 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:21:34 -0500

This newest generation has been raised in a climate of unadulterated "enable-ism." They've been bombarded with Reality TV that praises sub-par performance. They've witnessed a federal government become the Halls of Incompetence. They've joined a massive military organization that has, from the perspective of some other Western nations, lost its way and its dominant leadership role in the world, thanks to the occupant of the White House. I can think of several Command Sergeant Majors, Chief Master Sergeants, Master Gunneys, and senior Chief Petty Officers who could set these prima dona babies right in one day of doing things the old way, the right way. Changing the rules and regs of our military, eliminating the ages-old traditions of our services has only served to weaken our personnel in ways that were unforeseen, but should not have been unexpected. Change IS NOT always good.

Response by SGT Forrest Wells made Dec 31 at 2015 6:23 PM

SGT Forrest Wells — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:23:14 -0500

I heard "I hope I don't get deployed" from people in BCT. Really? You enlisted while the country was at war. Idiots. I literally volunteered for my deployment. Only a couple people from my battery that went to Afghanistan were sent involuntarily.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 7:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:41:06 -0500

Because people feel entitled. That's why.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 9:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 21:44:48 -0500

Ihave only known two officers who said they didn't want to go and they didn't. I think it has to do with supply and demand. At the height of the wars we needed warm bodies, don't want to go? To bad. Know with the wars winding down there are more people willing to fill the shoes of those who don't want to go, trying to get a deployment in before it ends.... if it does.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 10:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 22:47:33 -0500

I think that you've reached the point where the majority of the Army has not deployed again. There is a lot of turnover year to year, and deployments have been slowed and dwindling since 2010 - nearly six years now. There has always been and always will be a lot of envy towards veterans by slick-sleeves, and the vets often feed this through low-level harassment. I lived this myself when my two buddies and I reported to our first unit, and everyone there was fresh back from the Gulf War.

Troops bellyache. This is a natural occurrence. When the pissing and moaning gets a little too loud, NCO stomp it to get the troops reoriented and back in the game. Back in 2005-08, we were all tired. Many of us pulled multiples back then, and it was wearing on all of us. Thing was, by 2008 ALL OF US had in fact, "volunteered for this" because not a soul had not enlisted or reenlisted since 9/11 by then.
I can speak for myself when I say that I wasn't sad one bit when deployment number three fell through in 2006, then another to Operation New Dawn in 2010, with an OIF deployment in between in 07-08. By the time my number was up again, I was mentally prepared for round four.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 12:04 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 00:04:49 -0500

I think the biggest reason is new recruits/service members signed up blindly and didn't believe they would actually deploy. Once the realized what serving during war time truly meant they didn't want to serve any longer. Now they want that recognition which is why now we are also seeing a rise in Stolen Valor incidents as well. I'm one that has both volunteered and volun

Response by SPC Robert Smart made Jan 1 at 2016 12:52 AM

SPC Robert Smart — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 00:52:38 -0500

I heard a lot of the same in 1991 when we deployed to Saudi. There were guys saying that they would "go to Canada" and that they "did not sign up for this". But on the other side of the coin we had an influx of volunteers from other divisions to our unit.
I was always told that "If a solider is bitching he ain't happy."

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 4:27 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 04:27:18 -0500

My thoughts are that the Shoulder Sleeve for Former Wartime Service (SSI-FWTS) aka, the "combat patch" marks those veterans as combat tested. Getting away from "who's the Fobbit versus the door-busters", all combat vets have a unique experience that I believe is seen as a badge of honor by those who have not deployed. I think we need this attitude, that means we are keeping the fire in our new blood and lets the enemy know, "anytime, anywhere".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 5:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 05:16:52 -0500

I would dare say that during 04-07, slot of the peoe saying, " I didn't sign up for this" were the ones being stop lossed. As in fact they didn't sign up for that. At least that was my observations. Being held against your will and beyond your contract isn't fun. So it left a bad taste in a lot of soldiers.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 7:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 07:56:15 -0500

I would have to say that they obviously didn't fully comprehend what they were doing.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 1 at 2016 8:31 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 08:31:10 -0500

Your observation is anecdotal so not really easy to respond to. Not saying it wasn't your experience but like all of us, our experience is limited to what we see/hear/observe.

We used to have a saying that as long as they were bitching, they were happy. Almost everyone complained about something. It is almost the condition of those in the military to complain (especially juniors).

You are likely listening to different people today than when you were in. Not the same cohort so you are comparing comment/response group A to comment/response group B and they are not the same sample set.

Response by CPL J Sannizzaro made Jan 1 at 2016 8:36 AM

CPL J Sannizzaro — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 08:36:59 -0500

They annoyed the hell out of me two. Both of them out of my whole battalion. However, they too volunteered. And when the time came they manned up and were soldiers. They served voluntarily in war and combat. Everyone has moments of weakness, don't downgrade our brothers and sisters in arms. They did what the vast majority of Americian are or were unwilling to do.

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made Jan 1 at 2016 11:54 AM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:54:38 -0500

soldiers not bitching something worse is happening. A lot of combat arms units to my experience didnt have this so much. when I got relcassed it happened a lot more.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2016 1:02 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 01:02:27 -0500

Time changes it all. It is true. Soldiers are gunning for a deployment now. We are losing a lot of veterans in our ranks. We are seeing a lot of soldiers with no combat awards or patches. The combat club is getting smaller and smaller. I recall when I saw a CIB in 2000 I thought that was the most bad ass thing ever. For a while it was extremely common. Now it is not. In the Guard you are seeing people just about bagging to go. I have been on two tours with the Guard so far and one with RA.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jan 2 at 2016 8:59 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 08:59:30 -0500

it was amazing how much whining and crying went on when many Guard & Reserve units were called up and deployed during Desert Shield/Storm. We on AD at the time laughed that they must not have been aware that there was more involved in that check than guarding the commissary and Exchange from communism once a month. That being more than 20 years ago, there should be no reason for anyone AD, Guard, or Reserve to up upset if deployed because we have been in this battle against those who would bring their savagery to our home shores more than a decade now.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Jan 2 at 2016 12:11 PM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:11:05 -0500

Those of us who were on active duty did not get to volunteer, though most would have, in my opinion. Part of my battalion went to Granada, and my Cdr wouldn't let me go with them. He wanted to go also but couldn't! I do know that a lot of people enlisted during Desert Shield hoping to deploy. I was in a year-long course and got the word we were all going, which was fine with us. Again, I was sent to Bosnia for Operation Joint Endeavor, but was glad to go. It was all in God's hands.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 2 at 2016 7:22 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 19:22:23 -0500

Some people embellish the past or change it up a little.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 2 at 2016 7:41 PM

PO1 John Miller — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 19:41:25 -0500

I never "volunteered" for any of my deployments. My ships were ordered to deploy and I deployed. Did I whine about it? At first, sure. "F**k this bullsh*t I'm getting out!!!" 20 years later, I DID get out, LOL.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Jan 3 at 2016 3:28 PM

Maj Mike Sciales — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 15:28:24 -0500

Because it isn't too dangerous anymore and some of the deployments are to cool places like Djiboti, Jordan, Eastern Europe instead of Iraq, Afghanistan, repeat.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 10:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 10:14:12 -0500

Because we want what we can't have.

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Jan 8 at 2016 12:11 AM

CPL Jay Freeman — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 00:11:42 -0500

I saw issues while in basic before 9/11 I was in basic as a 19 delta cav scout Army.
We had kids saying f this I just wanted free schooling a large number of these guys didn't make it a few had some bad training accidents when awol or just failed at basic and ait

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jan 13 at 2016 12:49 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:49:21 -0500

"I wish I could get over there" often translates to "I want the combat pay and tax break...."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 7:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 19:15:43 -0500

It is human nature to complain. That's why. Just as long as they are still doing their jobs.
We are an all volunteer force. Nobody is being drafted. It is something they all signed up for. So yes, they volunteered for the possibility of deploying.
In the early stages it was popular. We had 9/11 fresh in our mind and wanted to kick some ass. There were objectors, sure... but aren't there always?
As the war progressed it became routine for some, while others just got completely worn out. Others didn't realize what they were getting into and ran their mouths like people do.
When we came across other Soldiers that had deployed we would often ask about each other's combat patches and where they were. This lead to the development of the term slick sleeve. The slick sleeves felt they were treated inferior because they had not deployed, and they were to some extent. So they started crying about wanting to deploy, or claim that they had not had the opportunity yet.
When these individuals got overseas they realized just what they had signed up for. My apologies if I'm not sympathetic, but that's the truth. It's not something you can prepare for, so the little buttercups better start sucking it up.

In my own eyes however, very few of us genuinely volunteered to go on a specific deployment. Unless you had a chance to not go and you chose to knowingly transfer to a deploying unit or wave your dwell time early like I have, then you haven't truly volunteered for shit.

Now put out that cigarette and get back to work, Specialist!

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Jan 18 at 2016 7:24 AM

CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 07:24:26 -0500

This is analogous to the fact that slightly under 3 million Americans served in Vietnam but in a 2005 census there were FIVE million who claimed that they had!