Why don't we have a score system in place for the ALT events on the Army's APFT?

2017-02-10T16:16:20-05:00

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2017 4:17 PM

2017-02-10T16:17:30-05:00

Is giving a Soldier a "GO" for an ALT event an accuate way to assess his cardio fittness? When looking at promotion points is it fair to give a Soldier who does an ALT event an average score (max push up and sit up, 100 points for ALT event) against a Soldier who does all three events?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2017 5:39 PM

2017-02-10T17:39:56-05:00

MSG Private RallyPoint Member We had the same discussion in my current unit not too long ago, since we have Soldiers that are able to complete the walk in 29 minutes or so or another that did the swim in 13 minutes out of 22 max. I think that there should be a table just like there is one for the 2 mile run so you can recognize who can excel on the walk and who barely passes it.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 10 at 2017 5:54 PM

2017-02-10T17:54:15-05:00

MSG Private RallyPoint Member By definition, if your doing an Alt event, are you not demonstrating your not 100% physically fit ?

The requirement is to be able to perform the standard (full) APFT once a year for recored and than as needed to qualifying for schooling, or promotion.

If you can not "meet" that standard and must take an alt event to perform the required task...do you think it just, right, fair, to earn the same recognition (points) for what is in fact a lesser performance of standards?

The Service needs only the best, we have no need this month for less than the best we can obtain or retain. So the standard remains, do the full APFT and earn points for your performance based results.

If your incapable of performing the full APFT, and must do an alternate event...the service has decide to allow you an alternate opportunity to show cause why you should not be separated, even though you can not perform to the required standard. That seems pretty fair to me, The standard, an Alt standard of lesser performance, and then a failure of the standards

From the position of the SM needing to do the Alt event, but still technically and tactically capable in the assigned tasks, that sucks for sure.

From the perspective of Big Army, well, they only need a 225, have 200 on hand, and 50 wanting to join, sorry, but they do not need (this month) all of you, and so only those that can perform fully, will earn the full points, those who can still complete the required task can for this month stay, those that can do neither will be separated.

Next month could be different,,,if need far out grows on hand and wanting to join.

This is a great example of why I have always said there should be two physical fitness tests.
One is a pass / fail that qualifiers you for retention... MOS based only, not normalized by gender or age.

And then a "competition" ..Normalized by gender and age, but no alt events.....
The events are X, Y, Z, points are awarded for performance, on a sliding scale gender and age normalized. If you can not perform the event, you do not earn the points . If you can not do the event as well as someone else, you do not earn as many points.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 11 at 2017 12:06 AM

2017-02-11T00:06:11-05:00

Why should they, we, you... If you can't do the regular APFT... then, why do you need a score?

Response by SFC George Smith made Feb 11 at 2017 12:12 AM

2017-02-11T00:12:09-05:00

I don't Follow it looses something in translation... the Alt PT test is there for a reason to still confirm the troops are physically capable to do the job...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2017 12:15 AM

2017-02-11T00:15:05-05:00

I agree. What most leaders must understand is that yes the APFT states p/u, s/u, and 2 mile run. However, alternate events are there for a reason. Some may have encountered a combat injury that causes them to not be able to run. Should these individuals be looked at less than those that can complete the run? Absolutely not. No one Soldier is perfect but by that SM being resilient enough to still display physical and mental toughness in that alternate event, completing it well above standard, recognition should be made as those that complete the run well above standard do as well.

I know there are those select few that use the alt event to their advantage and have little to no integrity. However for those that just can't run, but still give 110% in the event they were suggested by medical personnel, why not applaud them for being resilient and not letting there injuries limit them even more than they are? Humility is key here and if there is already a standard for alt events, we can at least conduct some type of pilot program for a score system and get feedback to see if it's good.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Feb 13 at 2017 7:33 AM

2017-02-13T07:33:13-05:00

This is certainly the crazy thought of the day, but maybe the ALT event just verifies whether a Soldier is still deployable concerning a specific area of performance. No emphasis is put on the event, because none is needed besides go/no-go. I would think that height plays a big role in walking speeds. I used to destroy tall guys on long runs, but struggled mightily to keep up in the foot marches without running.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2017 8:11 AM

2017-02-15T08:11:30-05:00

I have seen a couple of methods...hear is my experience...1SGs and CSMs have used this...in most cases...Since the events are Pass/Fail....If your going to a Promotion/Selection Board the SM is at a disadvantage against those that have no profile...So...Some CSMs give the average of the other two events...to get a score...So let's say you can do the push ups, situps and do the walk...If you score a 90 on PU and a 100 on SU and pass the Walk...the 1SG/CSM would give you the Average of 95...for a score of 285...some say this is unfair to those that do all three events...I have also seen where the 1SG/CSM would only allow a minumum score for a pass 60 pts and 0 for a fail...That is the disadvantage...A score system for ALT Events, I think would help remove the stigmas associated with a profile...Let's face it.....many combat leaders will give you a rash of crap for even having a profile...when I was young...I fell into that trap of...don't go to sick call for any reason...it was looked upon as failing your squad, tank, platoon...Called you a REMF, Pogue, P***y...you get the picture. Then I ended up in the hospital for "Sucking it up"....BLUF: if you continue to do that, you can prematurely end your career, by letting an injury or illness go untreated...It is far better to be on a short term profile, than to end a promissing career because of your flipin stuborness...