Why doesn't the Army take pride in their SNCO ranks? For example, how the Navy has CPO inductions and such.

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 09:55:48 -0400

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 9:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 09:59:20 -0400

The question now is, why doesn't the SNCO ranks take pride in the Army. We have lost our way with the history, traditions, and courtesies of this profession. SNCOs need to take pride

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 25 at 2015 10:01 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:01:15 -0400

Cultural difference (with historic undertones).

The land services are BIG on the NCO ranks. Getting that 2nd or 3rd stripe for us is HUGE. For the Navy, it's Chief. That's where the change in responsibility really happens.

Remember when you are on land, an NCO gets A LOT of troops very quickly. When you are dealing with a vessel (Sea or Air), it is more "team" or "shop" oriented, so although you pick up rank in the same general speed, the number of folks under you isn't going to be the same.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 25 at 2015 10:08 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:08:00 -0400

We have NCO inductions as well. Did you not do one?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:08 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:08:20 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member - excellent question, which I ask myself often (as an officer coming from the Navy NCO ranks). I always explained to my senior SSGs and even my SFCs that I had work with - about the CPO initiation and the pride one has for making CPO. I always try to add a little more "oomp" to their pride for making SFC...or for the person who is already a SFC, instilling some sense that even though it might be a more common rank in the Army...it's still a huge accomplishment in their career and they should feel accomplished and treat the rank accordingly.

On a side note - When I was a PL, I was also mind blown by the E-4 mafia, and how so many were content with staying at the E-4 rank vs trying to get promoted. I remember talking to my PSG and implementing platoon level NCOPDs, in which all E4 and below in my platoon attended - as I wanted to re-ignite the passion that these guys had when the first joined. It also helped quickly identify who just showed up for a paycheck as well. I remember when I was enlisted - I was always hungry for more responsibility...which is probably why I'm where I am now - still hungry for more responsibility!

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 25 at 2015 10:56 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:56:50 -0400

At the risk of showing my ignorance, what changes during the promotional process in the US Army and USAF, other than advanced responsibilities with each stripe. In the Navy it means a complete change in uniforms, similar to what the Commissioned Officers have and separate messing and living quarters when it is possible. The CPO initiation/induction was countenanced by the Officer ranks, but the Navy management has nothing to do with it. It WAS set up by the E-7-9s and the entire proceedings were conducted in a venue that the average sailor does not see or participate in. It WAS a right of passage that the Navy apparently felt was not inclusive enough and, of course in our new world, not PC since it was not dignified.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Sep 25 at 2015 11:23 AM

SSG Keith Cashion — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 11:23:15 -0400

It's all about traditions. And I think the Army has gotten away from these traditions. Everyone wants to be so PC, that the history and the traditions behind them are just a fleeting memory.

Response by CW3 Eric W. S. made Sep 25 at 2015 11:44 AM

CW3 Eric W. S. — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 11:44:16 -0400

Too many individuals that moved up so quickly... I turned down SFC because I didn't like the way the NCO corps was moving at the time. Even the loyalty between Senior NCOs was not there. PSGs didn't even have each others backs. CSMs were not supporting their 1SGs.

It has since become a product of combat and the fact that too many individuals were leaving the service, so the Army had to shorten the process to keep the numbers up. This is not to say that the Senior NCOs of the Army are any less competent than previously, but as pointed out prior to me stating this, there is an inherent lack of pride and professionalism within the structure itself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 2:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 14:32:57 -0400

The History and Pride do come and go at times, and that is a shame.
But it falls on the unit and post.
I know of several locations and units that still conduct NCO Induction ceremonies.
Take charge and make it happen.

Response by CPO Jason Meier made Sep 25 at 2015 3:17 PM

CPO Jason Meier — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:17:07 -0400

It was a great process, maybe in the past some took things a little too far but it does change the individual to become a better leader. In the last several years, the Navy has been slowly implementing the PC restrictions which dilutes and sometimes, kills, the required training for the new CPOs. Senior leadership is not just taking a test and "filling" a billet, it has to be ingrained into to the individual. One could have a leadership position or billet and receive enough promotion points to move up the ranks but without the proper training that new "leader" is more likely to fail than to succeed. The only way to learn is to put that individual into a stressful situation and see how they react. If they fail, do it again after some guidance. Keep repeating until they pass. If they pass on the first go-round, increase the stress as if they were truly in a combat situation or a life threatening situation and go from there. Now-a-days, it is more about checking the boxes in a text book and not actually instilling the skill sets needed to become a true leader.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 2:35 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:35:27 -0400

I've always liked how the Navy does their SNCO promotions, I must admit that I am a little envious.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 26 at 2015 3:20 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 26 Sep 2015 15:20:42 -0400

When I was in aviation and armor the NCOs had a lot of pride and authority.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 1:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Sep 2015 13:41:16 -0400

I can completely agree, coming up to the rank of SGT in the USMC and getting a taste of traditions and camaraderie. Two SNCO promotions in the USA and they were both just regular 'ol work days. Thought it was a bit strange. Best I can figure is the Marines engrain that into you staring at boot camp, where I've spoken to MANY Soldiers, and don't get that feeling at all.