Why does the Army discriminate against single soldiers?

2014-05-18T23:39:52-04:00

First let me say I am biased in my opinion since I am a single soldier. The Army stacks the deck against single soldiers, in a variety of ways. There are standards that single soldiers are forced to obey that married soldiers are not. Purely just because of their marriage.

Housing is my personal biggest area of concern being a single soldier. I am a 27 yr old college graduate. I get the same "rights" in my living quarters that a single 17/18 yr old straight out of high-school would get. If that same soldier is married, they get considerably more freedom, pay, and budget control than I do.

I as a single soldier get no say in where I live. At my current duty station the BAH for my rank and dependent status (Single, E-4) would be $1,068. So I essentially pay $1,068 dollars a month to live in the barracks. The barracks I live in have two separate bedrooms, with a common kitchen and bathroom area. Since there are two soldiers in each little barracks apartment, we collectively pay $2,136 a month for this set up. That is FAR more then what a similar apartment style would cost in the surrounding communities. If single soldiers were allowed to have BAH and live where they choose we could potentially save several hundred dollars a month by controlling our living expenses. That's not including the approximately $300 a month we are forced to pay for the DFACs.

There is also the issue of furniture in the barracks. Again we have no say, we get whatever the Army already has in the room. Personally I would love to have an actual nice mattress, instead of these cheap plastic blue ones.

Barracks inspections. I can't stand barracks inspections. The inspections are completely up to the person doing them and what they "think" the standard should be. One inspection your could be fine, the next one your getting lectured about how to make a bed. Last summer I had to write a 2 page paper for an LT about personal standards in the barracks. All because my bed didn't have hospital corners. (That morning when I get up I tossed my blanket off to the right of me, where it was just sorta crunched up against the wall running the length of my bed.) If I want to know what I am allowed to have and not have in my room, I have to read three different policy letters to find out. Division could allow something, Brigade could say no, and then Battalion have nothing about it at all. I get that lower commands are allowed to restrict privileges as they see fit. I'm just saying it's cumbersome to have to read three different levels policy to find out what is what.

It annoys me that I have to have periodic inspections(currently every morning before PT for my company) while married soldiers receive no inspections just because they are married. I get that they have a family, I just don't see why that should stop a squad leader from making a planned, announced, and visual walk-through of the house of the married soldier. Keeping the same standard of living as a single soldier should be part of the military life.

Meal Deductions. I don't think the DFACs are worth the $300 a month I have to pay. I hate having to "play" the "I am a Meal Card Holder" card to get lunch sometimes during work. It's usually followed by a married soldier saying "I'm working thru lunch, you don't see me bitching about wanting to leave for food". True. However when we miss our lunch it's gone. The money we paid is gone rather we ate that meal or not. Married people if they bring their lunch it'll still be there later. If they eat out, then well that's just money they didn't spend that day. They can use it tomorrow to get twice as much for lunch or eat somewhere more expensive depending on their budget.

We get no say in what sounds good for dinner. It's whatever the DFAC has. Sometimes that means either fried or grilled chicken. If they run out of one thing, it'll be whatever they have left. It's not right. It leaves married people with control over their diet and single soldiers with whatever the Army needed to clean out of the fridge.

The above is just Big Army things, the discrimination continues all the way down to the company level. At my company single soldiers who live in the barracks are not allowed to park in the lot in front of the company. Now our barracks is approximately 3/4 mile down the road. Our motor pool is another 3/4 mile the other direction. I find it silly that an entire parking lot is reserved for married people. Sure single soldiers can drive to work, but we have to park in the barracks across the street. Which is not the barracks we live in. Married people can't park in that same lot if the one in front of company is full? To a point I can understand the reasoning behind this, but single soldiers have to leave and run here and there just like our married counter-parts. Why should they get special parking treatment? I don't see anyone stopping married people from using the barracks washers and dryers to avoid buying their own/going to coin laundry mats. Why are married people allowed to dip their hands in our honey and slap ours away from theirs?

Like I said from the start I'm biased. I look over the fence and see greener grass. Perhaps this is all just one single soldier bitching and complaining.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Update FEB 2019: Since I originally posted this message, I have gotten married. My view on the subject has not changed. I want to respond to some of the overarching themes in everyone responses.

“Quit bitching/whining/complaining.” I feel there is a difference between logically laying out issues and grievances and just bitching about them. The number of leaders who contributions on this post/topic amounted to “quit saying words” is disheartening.

“Get married/Army will issue you a wife.” Saying to get married just to move out of the barracks is a failure of leadership. Those of you (in my opinion) with that mentally should reconsider what you do/did and what your job is/was. As a former Infantry NCO I have dealt with the countless issues that arise when a soldier quickly marries someone for the wrong reason (example: get out of the barracks). The domestic issues, spouse calling in to the Staff Duty, soldier isn’t training because of counseling/FAP/court/Divorce related nonsense, greatly diminishes readiness which the last I checked the Army still considers to be pretty important.

“I had more money/I wish I was back in the barracks/ but but bills! etc.” Bull. I wish I could challenge anyone who says that to actually prove it. As stated, I am married now. I have more money, flexibility, and financial freedom then I did as a single E-4. Now some of that is because I’m a higher rank. Part of it is because I use BAH as intended to cover housing/bills, my BAS for food, and having the control over how much I spend on those two items is very important. Also, my spouse works. I have come to realize that is less than common for married soldiers in the Army. However, I would argue that getting married and not having both spouses working is a decision that you made going in to it. I’m not arguing/stating if it’s the right or wrong choice. It’s what you decided worked for ya’ll. To me it’s the equivalent of a private going out and buying that 23% interest Mustang then complaining about how much money it costs and how he used to have it so much better without that car payment. If you choose (by getting married/having kids) to feed/house/care for additional people (spouse/kids) and yet do nothing to increase your income than yeah…you’ll have less money. That is a very poor argument for what the original post was about.

a. Hopefully ^above^ I’ve made my point clear and concise seems a little muddy to me, I guess we shall see in future comments.

“Move off post.” That’s not an option. Well I guess it is, however single soldiers still have to maintain the barracks room they get assigned, they still wouldn’t get the BAH entitlement, and they would have to still pay the DFAC out of their BAS. Do I need to continue on the ignorance of that statement? Sure, there’s a packet you can submit and ask to receive those allowances, I’ve only ever seen get accepted once and that was when my BDE changed from Light to Armored, only for E-5s, and it was suggested only if they were on orders and would be PCS’ing soon anyhow. They wanted non-PCS’ing E-5s still in the barracks. I don’t recall if I stated it in my original post but that unofficial additional duty of being an NCO at the barracks is crap. “You’re an NCO at the barracks keep everyone in line down there after work and on weekends”, thought that’s what CQ was for. I’ll also comment on the “single people off post would party to much/be late to formation/traffic at the gates/ get in trouble in town more” line of nonsense. It’s ignorant. Along with the “paying dues” comments.

Veterans- I appreciate you are still active in the boarder military community, and recognize that your time in the service paved the way for what we did/do/have accomplished today. However, pointing out how things were worse yesterday compared today and to “suck it up” is lazy. There is no reason we can’t keep pointing out things today to make tomorrow even better. I’m sure there is crap I can’t even fathom that ya’ll dealt with back in the 60s, 80s, and what have you that were fixed because of people continuing to bring the issue up.

Lastly, I’ve enjoyed reading the varied amount of responses everyone has on the topic. If mine come off as aggressive or across the line it was not my intention. When I posted the original stuff above 4+ almost 5 years ago I never expected it to get attention and still receive emails notifications years later. I’m fairly sure I’ve read 90% of the comments because Rally Point sends me an email every time someone comments. No I did not add that picture at the top, it’s the website. Sorry if you clicked on a Rally Point ad somewhere that linked to this post only to see it’s from 2014. I don’t control those. It’s the website. Yes I’m sure there are a few grammar and spelling errors. If you point it out at the beginning of a comment, I’m more likely to see it and correct the issue. Cheers to several more years of being told why I’m wrong.

Response by SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh made May 19 at 2014 8:52 AM

2014-05-19T08:52:33-04:00

I think you’re looking at some of this in the wrong light. The Army didn't say that they would pay you for housing and food. They said they would provide housing and food for you, same with the married personnel. I've seen families denied to be allowed to live off post because they had room for them in on post housing. And $357.55 just barely covers your food costs as that's just less than $4 a meal for one person.

I'm not saying you don't have valid points but the monetary side is not the direction you want to go into. As CW3 Dean pointed out things have improved but that means you shouldn't stop trying to make things better. The three SOPs, yea bring that up to your BOSS rep that's something they should be able to get fixed. Same with the parking and with the married people using the Single Soldiers laundry room. Miss a lunch, file a miss meal voucher. I make every precaution to make sure my meal card holders get food so I don't have to deal with that paperwork or explain the 1SG why you didn't eat. As for the control of food, I think some of our married brothers would disagree with you on the choices they get when they get home.

Room inspections, I hate to tell you but you're an outlier on the bell curve of the normal denizens of the barracks. Some considerations should be made (I think sometimes my peers are too black and white when dealing with the shades of gray) given your background but they do need to happen. I remember what happen when the BOSS program got the NCOs restricted from doing barracks inspections back in the late 90s. It wasn't pretty.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 8:53 AM

2014-05-19T08:53:52-04:00

I am sure you are going to read more then once how it is better then it was back in the day. And they are right. I slept in 3 man rooms on a bunk bed while in Korea and had to walk down the hall and shower in open bays. It has gotten better.

I feel your pain, I hated living in the barracks, and yes you have it better then I did, but its still the barracks. The thing is barracks life is designed for young kids living there. Your 19-22 year old. it can be said that your 19-22 year old single person really does not have the maturity to live off post by themselves, it leads to issues, not making rent, not showing up on time, wild parties etc. The whole dorm lifestyle gets old when you start creeping towards 30. At 27 you are close in age to your squad leader, if not older. But because you came in later in life, due to your rank you have to live in the barracks. Again it comes down to the major demographics of E1-E4, young 19-22 year olds. I'll be real with you. Its not going to change. You will not be able to get BAH untill you have some more rank. People have been asking, complaining, lobbying whatever for E4-E5 to get BAH, and I'll be honest I wish that it was like that. But in this day and age of budget cuts, the barracks will not get better or bigger. The barracks you live in now were conceived about 12 years ago, so it will take another 15 years before there are major revisions in the system. Maybe more with the budget cuts. As for inspections, well all I can say is welcome to the army.

Your options are simple,
Stay living in the barracks
make rank
go OCS, you have a 4 year degree make it work for you! Go OCS or Warrant!
Save your pennies and rent a room off post. My friend did it for years as a SGT with no BAH, he lived off post and rented a room, had a car payment, made rent etc. It can be done. (if your command allows it)
And last but not least, get married (I don't recomend this one unless you are doing it for the right reasons)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2014 12:54 PM

2014-06-16T12:54:39-04:00

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Army soldiers MUST have been serving on active duty when they got married.

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Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 5:55 AM

2014-06-24T05:55:18-04:00

SPC, you make quite a few good points. Let me start off by apologizing because I don’t want to sound disrespectful in any way, shape, or form, but a lot of this is the same complaining that hundreds of thousands of Soldiers have done before you and will continue to do long after you and I are long gone.
As far as money goes, the Army is currently and always has been looking at ways to save money. They are trying to find ways to pay for beans and bullets not Sleep Number beds for you and your roommate. One of those ways is to provide Soldiers a place to live versus giving them money to live out on the economy. One of the reasons many apartments and homes near installations have such great deals on rooms is because they know single Soldiers don’t want to live in the barracks and they know how much you make. If the Army just gave you BAH, they would know that as well, and you would see an increase in rent prices in the area. As far as food goes I wish I could spend $300 a month on food for three square meals a day. This money gets taken out automatically and you still see Soldiers at the food court throwing money down like there is no tomorrow. You mentioned missing lunch and losing that money. Look into it because I’m pretty sure you can get your money back for meals you were unable to go eat because you were not afforded the opportunity. We’ve all heard of the mythical and ever elusive “Missed Meal Voucher”. It’s a real thing. (Hint- AR 600-38)
Let’s talk about room inspections. You have obviously lived in the barracks for a while if you are complaining about them already. So what that tells me is that you should know what they are looking for by now. If you know that you are going to get inspected every morning before PT and you know what they are looking for, there should be no issue. You have the answers for the test already. As far as home inspections on married Soldiers living off base with families, they are required to have their homes inspected as well. If they are not happening that is a failure on the leadership.
Finally the parking, it sucks that this is going on, but in all honesty how much of an inconvenience is it really? Is it more inconvenient that having to wake up an hour earlier and fighting through morning traffic and then looking for a parking spot that isn’t half a mile away? If it is then I suggest once again digging in to the regulations. Not going to give you any hints there because I actually like the idea.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Aug 13 at 2014 6:48 PM

2014-08-13T18:48:38-04:00

You know, I was a 23 year old Sergeant (24 now, so this was less then 1 year ago) who lived in the barracks once. It was infested with huge roaches and mold everywhere. I was sweeping dead roaches out of the room every day. One night, one the size of my finger crawled up my arm. At that point I paid rent out of pocket to live somewhere else. I told the housing NCO, but he doesn't care, he lives off post. (Ft. Campbell)

The barracks I lived in when I was lower enlisted weren't infested by roaches, but I completely agree with you that there is no privacy. On the weekends you have to stay inside, if your caught outside staff duty will make you clean something. Every time people are called back to work to do stuff, its always the barracks soldiers, same group each time.....

Oh and let me tell you about those inspections, I had an NCO who was so bad he pretty much owned my barracks room. He told me what close will go in what drawer, where my tooth paste and tooth brush will be, what goes in which space, etc.... that was just miserable....

All my other friends got contract marriages, but due to my religion my family would not be happy if I got a divorce... So I didn't go that route.

On a positive note though, DADT has be re-appealed. You can marry one of your buddies in the barracks and live off post. We used to joke about doing that when I was in the barracks (lol flashbacks) .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 10:06 PM

2014-08-23T22:06:32-04:00

It has been a while since I was active duty, but from what I recall different BNs did different things. Some allowed E1-E4 to live off post, some didn't. Most kicked CPL and up out of the barracks, some didn't. It was all dependent on what there was for living space.

As far as paying for meals and quarters... we got base pay and nothing else. If you lived off post, regardless of whether you were married or not that was a different story. Things may have changed, but that's the way I remember it.

Response by SPC Stephen Bobchin made Aug 25 at 2014 2:32 PM

2014-08-25T14:32:12-04:00

My issue isn't so much with the fact that single soldiers live in the barracks, its more over the fact that there is a CLEAR and undeniable pay difference, and this is only talking about housing, not even including BAS.

BAH in my area without dependents is about $2200/m
BAH in my area with dependents is 2600/m
That discrepancy alone grinds my gears, but that is a conversation for another day. (I don't think the military should pay you any more or less simply because you have children.)

Now, I will post a picture of the barracks I am staying at with the furniture they provided when I moved in. Community bathroom, one shared kitchen on the ground floor, and 2 washers/dryers per floor+4 on the ground floor which is occupied by offices. Can anyone legitimately say that that room is worth $2200/m?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like the barracks I am in, and I've adapted to make it much much more homey (as evidenced by the 2nd picture), but if I had tried building something like that at my last barracks, I would have been ordered to remove it.

In the end, I realize it will never change, but it has always been my understanding that the Army strives to be an equal opportunity employer (at least thats what the millions of classes leads me to believe), and that should apply to martial status as well.

Response by SSG(P) Auston Terry made Sep 7 at 2014 11:35 PM

2014-09-07T23:35:14-04:00

There are things that you have to endure that soldiers before you were forced to endure. Your education and age are really non-entities. All single soldiers at a rank specified by the command, for example SSG and below in Korea. Live in the barracks, adhere to an SOP and have a curfew. There's a couple ways to look at it; you don't have to deal with a wife and/or kids and making ends meet with those challanges both personal and professional; you don't live in an open bay with your platoons; or just suck it up. If you chose the latter option you're basically admitting that you chose to look at things pessimistically. I live in the barracks from PVT to SGT; now I make almost twice what I made as a SPC including BAH. I also ride the Struggle Bus to make sure my family and I save money every month. When I was a single SPC in the barracks I could drink at the bar virtually every night, spend Wednesday and Saturday in a gentleman's club and buy a dirtbike and still come out ahead.

The barracks quality and standards vary from duty station to duty station. But if Ft Hood is any indication (both West and Main) living in the barracks is cake. For the small fee of the occasional inconvienance you get an unreasonable amount of expendable income and you'll never be homeless. One of my soldiers years ago saved over 50,000 in a little over two years through using the DFAC and minimizing his expenses; he bought a multi family condo and put it on Section 8. All while living in the barracks.

It's all about perspective.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 8 at 2014 12:14 AM

2014-09-08T00:14:39-04:00

We are jealous of single soldiers. End of story. We deliberately try to take out our frustrations on you because of our incessant envy. If a single soldier feels that they are underpaid, they can try dividing their riches every which way imaginable with a spouse and kids (if they are really lucky)......just kidding. I'm in retirement mode. :)

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2014 12:46 AM

2014-09-08T00:46:11-04:00

I agree on most of your points and the dfac nearly seems to have enough food to serve a few people I've seen a slow day in the dfac they were handing out seconds thirds fourths for the food hungry who wanted it I stick to a healthy diet as much as I can but the barracks situation I agree I have had to go to housing four times in a one month span about hot water going out they gutted my barracks a few years back and supposedly rebuilt into one man rooms yet hot water goes out the power glitches and when we call housing they ignore us if we go to Birgade that is so I've started calling housing whatever department I need and making it a issue for a few days until they get the hint to come fix it

Response by PO2 Tony Casler made Sep 8 at 2014 6:15 AM

2014-09-08T06:15:44-04:00

You have valid points but look at the bright side: at least you aren't married. You will have money in the bank after a deployment, you don't have to worry about Jodie making himself at home while you are away, and you don't have ex wives sucking you dry with alimony and child support.

Almost without exception the SMs I knew who married were absolutely miserable. It may not seem like it but you really are getting the better deal.

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Sep 8 at 2014 11:16 AM

2014-09-08T11:16:04-04:00

I say this a lot... but I mean no disrespect... but I am tired not of the word "discriminate' but mostly how freely we (myself included) throw it around. Everyone at one time or another has felt some form of actual discrimination. Be it age, race, religion, military affiliation... But whenever a person feels something unfair has befallen them it is instantly discrimination...

Which is basically defined as: a term used to deny someone the equal protection of the laws and to treat all people the same.

Well if that's the case my wife discriminates against me because she treats her mother differently... My daughter has discriminated against us both (depending on the issue) and the cat discriminates against me all the time!

Sometimes we can control the environment sometimes we can't. But how much of the discrimination is real and how much is perceived? In an all voluntary service it could be viewed two ways. Those with family should be assisted... but are they being rewarded for having families? How much does the pay increase actually cover in regards to the cost of having a family? Is the Military an extension of the welfare state... I have heard that argument numerous times. I don't think that (my opinion).

I can see and think that single soldiers may have a valid point but they don't understand the added responsibility and hardships that go along with a family nor is it their fault that their 'battle buddy' chose the get married.

But is it discrimination? The military provides, housing, food, healthcare, uniforms, education...everything... there is only one other place that offers all that... Prison...

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 8 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-09-08T13:27:17-04:00

What I find a bit unfair is the family seperation pay.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2014 9:26 PM

2014-09-08T21:26:52-04:00

Probably a mute point, and someone may have already made it, but remember that it is not the Army doing anything when it comes to pay/benefits. It is the Department of Defense, as authorized by the US Congress that controls our pay/benefits. May not make you feel any better, but worth thinking about.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Sep 9 at 2014 7:48 AM

2014-09-09T07:48:12-04:00

This makes me Glad I was AF when I was a young and single Airman. Outside of basic and tech school AF single life isnt bad.

Lived in what is called a 1+1 dorm (we don't have barracks). 2 room's with walk in closets, private sinks and a shared kitchen and bathroom and a shared laundry room 20 washer/dryers per bldg. Some of the newer dorms are "quads" with 4 rooms with walk in closets, private bathrooms, a shared living room between 4 room, shared kitchen between 4 room, and a washer and dryer for the quad.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2014 1:49 PM

2014-09-10T13:49:35-04:00

I've always heard of this referred to as APDASS, for the "Army Program For Discrimination Against Single Soldiers." I wonder if any one else has heard this acronym?

My preferred solution would be to pay Soldiers the same regardless of if they were married or had kids or were single (with differentiation being rank and time in service). A great deal of benefits are available to married Soldiers, a great deal more to Soldiers with children. As an extreme example, all benefit programs for dependents could be cancelled, all that extra money split equitably (based on rank and time in service) and added to base pay. Then a Soldier who decided to get married and have kids could spend the extra money on the family, while the Soldier who decided not to get married or not to have kids could spend the money on whatever they wanted.

It always struck me as strange--and still does---that we pay one person more to do a job than we pay another just because that one person made a choice (to get married, to have kids) that the other person didn't make.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2014 2:42 PM

2014-09-12T14:42:42-04:00

Soldier- If I could vote you up multiple times I would. As a single CPT I think I had a dissertation I would give to anyone who would listen about this topic. As far as the Army is concerned because you are unmarried you are worthless... I mean worth less than a married soldier. (But you are expected to work more).

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 2:34 AM

2014-09-13T02:34:11-04:00

I have heard two schools of thought on this topic in the Air Force. I will say one school of thought I don't 100% agree with.

I have been told that the Air Force tries to get the Dorms at 100% capacity, the intent being that the more people they have stay in them, that is more money to renovate and maintain the buildings. The two bases I have been stationed they make it mandatory for first term Airman stay in the barracks. If an Airman stays on the base long enough, about three years and the rooms are all at capacity, they give the option to move off base. Usually, like everything in military first dibs goes to time in grade and then time on station. It is not automatic. The Airman usually must get a recommendation from a supervisor and it must be signed off by the squadron commander. If someone has been in trouble for drinking incidents, they are less likely to be allowed to move. If the persons finances are suspect that the chain of command does not believe that they can handle paying rent on time or that they will use the extra money irresponsibly then they may not be able to move off. I have also seen where a commander will want to know where the member intends on moving to. If the person looks like they may move to a bad area of town then the commander will not approve it.

Bottom line it is about the money, especially now that the DOD is scraping every penny just to keep readiness levels up. So they are going to do what is in the best interest of the service over the individual. So if keeping barracks at capacity becomes a priority then there will be less opportunities to move off base until you PCS to another station. Now that we are in a draw down force you may find more people being required to remain on base that would normally have been given the option to move off.

I do not agree with the policy, but it is what it is unfortunately.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2014 2:45 PM

2014-09-19T14:45:38-04:00

As a single enlisted soldier and now a married officer, I don't think there is discrimination towards single soldiers. There are benefits and negatives on both sides of the coin.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 1:01 PM

2014-09-22T13:01:35-04:00

yep, great points. I think the barracks are a perfect place for that 19-22yr old group. A lot of them do not have vehicles, a grip on finances, or the maturity to live off post.
I am now going on 28 years of age, and being a single soldier is becoming an absolute nightmare. Believe it or not, single soldiers are very much discriminated towards in their unit... maybe not as much in the literal sense as everyone is trying to make it out to be. But single soldiers, regardless of rank, age, or whatever... will always be looked at in the chain of command as CHILDREN. We've all seen it, if you disagree... look for it from now on, see if you catch it.
I agree completely with the, umm I believe MAJ up above. One term in the barracks, once you reenlist you can receive BAH.. married or not. Being a leader, I have escorted brand new joe down to sign for his house... same as I signed for living in this cubicle more times than I can count. And as an adult, that freaking hurts.

This, I feel is the biggest problem here.
- Every e5, and most e4's I know... have scammed the system in some way to get out of the image that is a "single soldier". This is creating a trickle affect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 3:28 PM

2014-12-01T15:28:41-05:00

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Response by SMSgt Judy Hickman made Dec 30 at 2014 11:27 PM

2014-12-30T23:27:56-05:00

I'm in the Air Force, so maybe its different in the Army...but when you say you paid, I'm not sure if that is a true statement. If you live in the barracks you don't get BAH and you don't get money for your meal card. So to me it doesn't appear that you are paying anything. So therefore the money is not coming out of your pocket.

If the Air Force owned my house I would actually expect them to come look at the property to ensure it is being maintained in good order, but the Air Force doesn't own the base housing I'm living in.

Once you hit E-4 in the Air Force you are generally given the opportunity to move out of the dorms if you have a clean record, unless you are overseas and sometimes you will have to stay in the dorms longer.

Having lived in the dorms I am somewhat sympathetic, having viewed the dorms on Ft Sam Houston I am really sympathetic. I've always wondered while the Army kept folks In the dorms for so long, do they save money that way?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 11:49 PM

2014-12-30T23:49:40-05:00

I'm sure I wouldn't like the system if I were single, and I don't blame you for being frustrated with it. On the flip side, I couldn't afford to be in the Guard if it weren't for BAH, BAS, and Sep pay.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 7:44 PM

2015-02-05T19:44:23-05:00

I think one of the things that bothered me the most was having different standards for those living in the barracks vs. those that lived off-post. It blows my mind that as a blanket people who are married are considered mature, while those who are single and live in the barracks are immature. If you live in the barracks the Army will dictate what alcohol is allowed in the barracks, how your bed should look, how much trash you are allowed to have in your trash can (anything over 1/4 full is "over-flowing"). In addition to that if there was phased arrival for bad weather single E4s were expected to be at the shop half an hour before married E3s, and to have the sidewalks cleared before they got there, by the way we drove by the married housing on the way from the barracks to the EOD shop on the other side of post from the barracks. When we had FRG meetings our unit would release the married soldiers early so they could go home, change, and get their families. The single soldiers were then required to stay at the shop, stay in uniform, clean and set up, then spent the whole meeting running games and watching out for the kids of the married soldiers, then the married soldiers were allowed to leave so they could get their families home while the single soldiers stayed to conduct clean up.

I know that from personal discussion with over half of the lower enlisted soldiers that got married while I was in the unit with them that the Army's treatment of single soldiers was a primary factor in their decision to get married. Most of them got married because they were sick of all of the garbage they had to put up with from the unit and from the Army because they were single, and within six months most of them were in marriages they wanted out of after admittedly getting married too soon, but they in every instance they still said, "but its better than living in the barracks". I think that if they Army could fix the discrepancies between the way that they treat single soldiers vs. married soldiers they could fix some of the problems they have with soldiers that get married to quickly/ too young. Things like domestic violence and the high divorce rate (I know there are a lot of other things, like the strains of deployments, kids, finances, army life etc. that also contribute to this).

My other large grievance is in regards to alcohol. I don't understand the mindset that a 21 year old E3 who is married and living either off-post or in married housing with his 19 year old wife is responsible enough to have all the alcohol he wants, but as a 31 year old college grad living in the barracks I can't be responsible enough to have more than a six pack in my room. Me personally I'm a whiskey connoisseur, particularly bourbon. Recently I won a raffle for the chance to buy a rare bottle of $130 bourbon, that's not something I'm going to drink often, its something that will be opened for a special occasion, and then nursed for a few months. I had to find somewhere off post to store it because I'm only allowed one bottle of alcohol in the barracks. I typically only drink whisky on the weekend, and prefer a glass of wine in the evening with dinner during the week. When our battalion changed our alcohol policy I had to find someone to take my wine chiller, and would have to empty a bottle of wine any time I wanted to have some, or find somewhere else to store my bourbon during the week so I wouldn't have over the allowed limit. It just doesn't make sense when I know that I have responsible drinking habits, but if I were to marry the first girl that was willing, then I'm more mature in my personal life, and with my drinking habits so I can now have a full bar when two months before when I wasn't married I couldn't even handle having a bottle of red and a bottle of white wine, or a bottle of good and a bottle of extra rare bourbon. Then heaven for bid if you're an aspiring mixologist that likes to have some gin and campari around to make the occasional negroni.

I will also bring up the DFAC issue. I know that $300 is not going to to feed the typical person in a month, so if you look at it that way all of your meals provided for $300 is a deal. The thing is that most soldiers aren't going to get all of their meals there. For that typically bought all of my lunches during the work week. On most days we didn't have time to get back from PT then get to the chow hall and then get to work on time, but our NCO's never cared because they would go straight from PT to the shop to shower, and then eat a breakfast they brought with them. The single soldiers would have to go back across post to the barracks, shower, and then rush to chow try to get something, then finish the drive to the shop. When it came to dinner you typically had to make sure you got whatever was left at the DFAC on your way home from the shop going back to the barracks. For me I have always liked to sit down, change and take a rest before grabbing dinner, by that time the DFAC was closed, so I would either make something in my room or grab something from a restaurant, but again that was my decision and I realize that, but it wasn't something that I could opt out of. Now while I was in I started having all sorts of issues with my GI tract, and nutrition services felt that with my condition and age that it would be better if I would be placed on separate rations. Before entering the Army I did spend time working as a professional cook, and while I taught in China any time we wanted American food I was the one that would do the cooking, and it was with nothing but a George Foreman, a toaster oven and a crock pot. I would take fresh grilled salmon, chicken, and the trout I caught myself done on my electric griddle along with grilled fresh veggies and rice out of my rice cooker, or I could use the rice cooker to steam my veggies as well. I would take that as a healthier and tastier option than anything that was in the DiFac for dinner, then do a salad for lunch, and could do it on budget for roughly $300 a month. I even did it on my own dime to validate to my command and my PCM what I was intending to do, everything I had already invested in the plan, and what my meal plan would be. My PCM said that if he granted a single E4 the money to cook his own food in the barracks I would do it for a month, and then I would be eating all of my food from McDonalds. I feel that if I were married with a couple of youngsters in my ear begging me for a happy meal that I would be more likely to be rushing out to McDonalds vs. me being 30 years old single, and a bit of a foodie that enjoys fresh wholesome food. I even went as far as to tell my PCM that I would prepare him a meal in my barracks and put my food rats up against anything he could prepare in his actual kitchen.

These are the things that I believe the Army needs to address if they want to fix the plummeting moral of their single soldiers. Shoot, we can get an EBT card to anyone that can pop out a kid, but we can't give our single soldiers the option of using the $300 we receive for the DFAC on a card to spend at the Commissary instead? Come on America.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 8:25 PM

2015-02-05T20:25:04-05:00

There is good and bad to both sides of the argument, I personally feel at command authority levels they should limit off-post housing for married soldiers until at least their first reenlistment, since The defense budget is trying to cut down BAH for married couples the financially responsible decision for the army should be to have married soldiers utilize on-post housing and only allow under special circumstances for off-post housing with BAH unless onpost housing is full. I cannot tell you enough how many times I've had married soldiers tell me they were getting off post housing and that our housing administration had various amounts of on – post housing available but they turned it down. On that note I feel that married soldiers should not be exempt from random housing inspections to verify Health and welfare of their living situation. Giving them 10 to 20 minutes of advance notice prior to inspection should be more than an amicable. When you have to give far advanced notice married soldiers about a future inspection of course they will make sure that it looks Nice and livable. If single soldiers have to maintain a constant healthy living condition they married soldier should not be exempt as is the standard and standards are meant to be upheld by all soldiers at every level, hence why it is called a standard. No matter what we are all soldiers 24/7. As for the single soldier living quarters I would say be more than grateful for the living quarters that you have. My living quarters at my first duty station in Camp Casey Korea was two men for one barracks room and the room was approximately the size of a small college dorm, shared room, no privacy, shared bathroom, random barracks inspections (where you would have to wait out in the hall), And you were responsible if for any reason the room had the slightest imperfection even if it was not because of you. Coming back stateside I was given my own room and was very grateful to at least have that freedom and privacy again. No more roommate blasting video games while I study for school, I am responsible for only myself again. Mind you, even though I had some small issues with the roommate that I had I am still grateful even in the room that I had in Korea because I didn't have to experience housing like it used to be in some of our older wars I.e. WWII, Vietnam, Korean War, and many countless other battles that had various amounts of people living in tight quarters with little to no privacy and little to no personal possessions. As for the food if you're having problems getting to the DFAC and the married soldier wants to complain you Chain command can always take another option. They're required to make sure that you received three meals a day one of those meals being a hot meal, however they don't have to let you go to the DFAC. I remember countless times in Korea when we were on a mission and we would just get MREs as it fullfills that meal requirement. If they are not providing MREs to you then they need to let you go to the DFAC. If you miss a meal fill out a missed meal voucher with your mess hall sergeant, if your chain of command is not correct it and your work dictates you to have to miss meals from the defect then you can apply for separate rations in which case you'd be paid out your BAS. As for the variable parking depending on if you are married or single that is the one issue that I see that you posted that is not right and should not be taking place. Do they have Placher stating only married people can park there, did it come from the chain of command, or did some of the married soldiers just put the word out that single soldiers shouldn't park there. If those are the case other than the chain of command then I see no reason to not park there. Some of the officers in here can correct me if I'm wrong as I honestly don't know but even if that came from the chain of command I am unsure if that would even be a legal order. You always have the option if you feel like you're being discriminated against as a single soldier as well as your peers to file an equal opportunity complaint or a IG complaint if you feel it is discriminatory. With that in mind, make sure you do your research prior to doing so to make sure you have valid claim and any rules that may be applicable to it. As for the washers and dryers I'm not saying to or not to do anything but if it really became such a problem that it bothered you and other soldiers reported up to your chain of command or your charge of quarters as they should not be doing washes in the barracks since they do not live there it takes away from the ability for the single soldiers to wash their clothes and uniforms. I hope this helps you, and as I stated before make sure you do your research on everything don't take just hearsay for an answer

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 8 at 2015 9:31 PM

2015-02-08T21:31:09-05:00

Forgive me. I don't have anything constructive to add nor anything that might address your plight. I'm stuck on your opening sentences"...I am a 27 yr old college graduate...my rank and dependent status (Single, E-4)...I get the same "rights" in my living quarters that a single 17/18 yr old straight out of high-school would get..."

Pay and benefits are based on rank and time in service, aren't they? The only supplemental benefits that I ever heard of were allowances to those who had to live on the civilian economy because there weren't adequate facilities on post for them. Has that changed?

Once, during a brief posting to Fort Ben Harrison, three of us (01s) got together and rented an apartment because there was no room in the BOQ for us. We received a special allowance during that time which went pretty far since we were sharing expenses. Can enlisted personnel do the same thing these days?

I joined the Army as an E1 at age 23 with a law degree, and I was lumped together with many 17 and 18-year old high school graduates. I spent the first year at Infantry School working my way up to O1.

Is there something holding you back?

Again, I'm sorry. I know that none of this bears on the question you raised.

Allow me to proceed.

Those among my "peers" during that first year who were married suffered for it. Their spouses had to find work or stay at home with parents. From what I'm seeing of young military families today, they aren't much better off regardless of any "special" benefits they are receiving. Our veterans groups are collecting food, money, and diapers to help them out. No, we aren't helping the bachelors living in the barracks. We have heard of any need there.

Thus, I wouldn't suggest getting married for any special benefits. It seems they don't stretch very far...

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 11 at 2015 3:23 PM

2015-10-11T15:23:12-04:00

SGT...1st of all, just because a lower ranked soldier is married does not long mean they get more privileges than a single soldier, Being single you have the option of coming in from a maneuver and going down range to party, they have to go back to a family and family issues. I saw in my time in the service many families fall apart due to lots of issues, so compound those with daily unit issues and its not fun. You as a NCO should have your own room and not share it with how ever many share rooms these days, back in my day we had 5-6 sometimes 8 sharing a single room, today the Army has revamped many of the old barracks and made living quarters much like an apartment to include a kitchen and reduced the amount of soldiers per room. Does anyone give a wake up call to off post housing compared to barracks life ??? If a person is lucky enough to get housing there is still chores to be done in some places, care to come home after 30 days and find the grass is almost as tall as you??? the car broke down and needs to be repaired, the list goes on. I lived both in the barracks and off post as a E-5 so I know both lives. Barracks life has fewer draw backs by far.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-10-11T16:12:19-04:00

I remember coming back from the field, 10:30 at night, having formation after 2-3 weeks of downrange... filthy vehicles, filthy tracks, filthy weapons, tired, cleaning up after MILES blanks... and we'd have formation:

"Married soldiers, dismissed! Single soldiers! Clean weapons until further notice!"

And then they honestly can't figure out why some guy goes out and marries "some chick" he met at a bar two weeks ago.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 11 at 2015 4:55 PM

2015-10-11T16:55:57-04:00

The Army will issue a wife soon, so you can feel your rights of passage without discrimination.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 6:21 PM

2015-10-11T18:21:50-04:00

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member I agree with you 100%. I was single on active duty for a long time and I felt it unfair that I got paid less for doing the same job plus... as a single soldier I had to do all of the household shopping etc.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Oct 11 at 2015 9:34 PM

2015-10-11T21:34:29-04:00

I do understand the complaint about housing for singles. At one time a friend and I rented a place off base and paid out of our pockets. However singles housing was not always bad. I lived in the barracks for over a year at Ft. Jackson and I guess that I had it pretty good. I had my own room and our CO let me fix it up however I wanted it. I painted it, put up drapery and mounted pictures on the wall. My room was only inspected once a year and that was the annual IG inspection. It might not have been just like home but it was as close as I could get it. Sure am glad that I was never treated like some people posting here were.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-10-12T12:50:37-04:00

one must understand ...they need worker bees to breed too.. So they want soldier to have family and babies... :)

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 10:32 PM

2015-11-04T22:32:34-05:00

I don't really like to use the word discriminate. It's not like senior members just hate single military members and they are going out of their way to screw us over. I do agree that this need to be discussed though.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 2:54 PM

2015-11-05T14:54:22-05:00

Someone else mentioned it first, but the missed meal voucher is an important tool. If you have a meal card, then leaders must make sure you get a chance to eat. But they can always give you an MRE I suppose. The vouchers will mean a lot more in the future as funding for meals gets tighter.

Sorry about the barracks. It is what it is, but it's better than my life in the 80s and 90s. I know that doesn't fix your issue but when you get to higher levels of responsibility, you will understand the impact your inspections have on your soldiers and establish policies that matter and improve their conditiOns. You seem like the perfect type who can learn from your experiences and be a great leader for it.

I've lived through good housing and bad housing, I know that it sucks but It always gets better.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 7 at 2015 7:23 PM

2015-11-07T19:23:59-05:00

The Army will never give single soldiers BAH because it will be an added expense. Off the top of my head it will cost the military 1-3 billion dollars a year.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Nov 16 at 2015 8:55 PM

2015-11-16T20:55:02-05:00

I have an AF perspective. Now, some things you don't have control over but some you do. Try and PCS if you can, or stick it out with the leadership in place. They will PCS eventually and I bring this up for a reason - a lot of the suck may be due to local leadership, not necessarily military policy. I can say a lot about this topic but my first unit was really family focused to unprofessional levels at times and I will give an example below. Anyway, I PCS'ed to a new unit and no one cared if you were married or single. I later got married when I was in my second and final unit and guess what....life wasn't really that different because no one cared. It helped that my spouse had a career and life of her own.

Now with that said I am sure a lot of the issues with the first unit were because I was the whiny junior service member that had his own issues, but there were some times that made me go WTF? For example... do you really need to email the whole squadron when someone had a miscarriage? And yes that actually happened.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2016 6:27 AM

2016-01-20T06:27:10-05:00

It is completely out of regulation for married Soldiers to use the barracks laundry rooms.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 2:33 PM

2016-03-01T14:33:10-05:00

What all you single guys fail to comprehend is how insanely expensive it is to be married and raise kids, especially if your spouse doesn't/can't work. as a single soldier all of your basic needs are provided and you get to spend almost your entire paycheck on whatever shiney new toy you like. I have seen this situation from both sides of the fence and you single guys have nothing to complain about.

Response by SGT Barry Third made May 4 at 2016 4:15 PM

2016-05-04T16:15:51-04:00

I being Married , Never had such issues, i had to be the for every inspection , CQ duties like crazy , I eat at the mess hall for lunch , which i had to pay for , there are pros and cons both ways, i think the Army does a good job at separating the 2,,

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2016 7:01 PM

2016-05-04T19:01:50-04:00

In the Air Force when a service member makes E4 they can live off post (marriage excluded). I'm not sure if this is the case for all AF installations/units but in my case it was. I don't understand (completely) the ideology of having grown adults living in barracks. They want to keep a watchful eye on as many people as possible, I understand, but this is a contradiction and a lost cause. If an individual doesn't have the maturity and responsibility to live off post by the time they reach E4, my next question is, what does that indirectly portray about our military?
Additionally, I don't think it's a mystery that a lot of members only get married to circumvent this restriction, which promotes even more problems.
Once a certain rank is reached, let's say right before transitioning from junior enlisted to NCO (so E4 as I had mentioned), this is the time to witness a person either sink or swim with the most basic of responsibilities.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2016 7:28 PM

2016-05-04T19:28:02-04:00

They also don't like single parents. I've dealt with alot of bullshit for being one. It's not like I made that choice for myself. My ex husband was a real work of art let me tell you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2016 7:47 PM

2016-05-04T19:47:30-04:00

You are correct in most of what you say. But the Army isn't a job, it is a lifestyle that you choose to stay in or leave when ETS time comes around. I chose to do one tour and out. I've been in the reserves forever and love it. Why you ask? I have a great civilian career, less of the active duty BS that you describe and I still get to deploy and kick ass when I want...

Response by MSgt Devon Saunders made May 4 at 2016 7:52 PM

2016-05-04T19:52:28-04:00

Soldier-- I agree with you on some points but allow me to counter a few from a Air Force perspective.
#1. Housing. A married Airman (E and O) living in housing has an inspection. Specifically if they have a yard with grass. There are weekly yard inspections on EVERY Air Force base... They will be ticketed for weeds, lawns not mowed, dog poo in the yard etc.. These tickets are fowarded to leadership. Accumulate 3 tickets and you're out of family housing at you're expense. Furniture-- A young Airman newly married may not have his own furniture yet. Guess what? He gets the same crappy furniture the barracks guys get!! Even the shitty blue mattress...
#2. You're getting $300 for the DFAC!?!?! His BAS might be about $250-275!! Depending on the job not all married guys get to leave for lunch. For example ... Flight line maintenance folks. I do agree that patrons of all DFACS should have a say in what they're being fed.
#3. Parking? You're complaining about parking??!!? As an E-7, sometime I had to park further away and walk to my building. That's just how it is. The only legal designated parking spots in the Air Force is the Commander, Chief, First Sergeant, Deputy Commander and handicap, unless the Wing commander authorizes any more. It's ok that you're asking(I won't say complaining). Just enlighten yourself on the bigger picture and don't assume it's all cherries and blossoms for the married folks.

Response by SSG John Jensen made May 4 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-05-04T19:56:06-04:00

closest I ever came to death - they handed out our LESs, as a single guy in the barracks I said "Wow, look at all of this beer money!" if looks could kill - the faces of all of the married guys

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made May 4 at 2016 9:03 PM

2016-05-04T21:03:23-04:00

Great times in the barracks

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made May 4 at 2016 9:20 PM

2016-05-04T21:20:39-04:00

Yes, you are bitching. There may be some good reason. Food choices being one of them for sure. I hated having to accept whatever the mess laid out. However, there is a lot you don't see that married personnel have to deal with. Your lot in life may not be to your liking, but you will find one day that the married guys don't have it all that good in ways you never knew about.

Response by SSG Dereck Davis made May 4 at 2016 10:54 PM

2016-05-04T22:54:24-04:00

If it were fair and easy, everyone would be doing it. The Army has its flaws, most of which reside on the enlisted side of things. You can be a champion for change. Join BOSS. Lobby the command to change the policies about parking (perhaps incentives for carpooling from the barracks). You can be the hero the single enlisted soldier needs.

Getting married has always been the "easy" way for Private Joe to improve his or her immediate quality of life. Dual military is also a great way to go. Maybe find a friend that can keep a secret and get married? Bad advice, but it does happen.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made May 5 at 2016 12:04 AM

2016-05-05T00:04:36-04:00

Personally, I am just having a hard time grasping what it is that you are complaining about.
You have a two bedroom apartment with a kitchen and a bathroom?
Your mattress sucks? Buy a good one and make your bunk correctly.
You are paying for it? No you're not. You can't claim that you are paying out what you don't rate.
Three quarters of a mile either way to chow or the motor pool? Brown baggers can bring their lunch and you miss yours?
I have to be honest. When I was in, I would have taken what you are whining about and loved every minute of it.
If you can't handle living in the barracks, suck it up and move off base. If you can't handle the either or, just don't re-enlist.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2016 10:56 PM

2016-05-05T22:56:51-04:00

I believe the military supports the soldier's support system in this case; the family. Nothing takes a solider out the fight than problems at home. Providing a more stable financial situation at home with spouse and children gives a lot motivation to service members to work hard, complete mission, and come home.

Response by SPC George Long made May 6 at 2016 12:46 AM

2016-05-06T00:46:15-04:00

Pretty simple. Most Lifers who make the rules are married. If they don't get their way they raise Holy Hell with the politicians. You should have seen how bad it was 50 years ago.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 7:13 AM

2016-08-23T07:13:34-04:00

Soldier, I have been in the Army for 24 years of those I have been Active duty for 17 of them. I too joined the at 24 yrs old after I graduated from college. I feel the pain. When I came in at my first unit we had 4 people living in a room. So you could imagine what that was like. My second unit I lived in a room by my self in a room not much bigger then a master bathroom in larger house about 300 sq ft. Did I mention I was to maintain a locker and a bunk for a married solder to leave his TA50 there. So I had about 200 SF to myself. Then all subsequent units were pretty much the same.

Unless I was allows to mess separately I was required to maintain a meal card as well. We were not allowed to eat at the hospital unless we had an appointment there.( they had the best food next to special forces and Ranger Bn)

. What I am getting at is that I like many others including alot of officers agree that it is fail but unfortunately it is they of that we operate. Until someone higher up can figure out a WA to maintain a dfac to stay open with minimal operating costs and Joe snuffy E1 who iced Ike a pig with mommy and daddy barracks inspection will continue.

. Now saying that I have seen LTs 21 yr fresh out ofcollege telling enlisted member how to clean their room and they get to live however they want in their choice of living accommodation. Keep in mind all government housing barracks and gov housing is subjected to inspections.

I wish I could vote up this more then once. The battle between privileges that being married vs single. Being allowed to mess separately is bad vs meal card has been going on for a long time
it has gotten alot better. We have kitchens and washers and dryers in rooms now the CQ hey you has gotten better. Keep up the fight.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:13 AM

2016-08-23T08:13:53-04:00

I got tired or reading this. Here's an idea. When your enlistment is up please find the exit and become a civilian. Then you will have all the freedoms to make the choices you wish.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:40 AM

2016-08-23T08:40:15-04:00

You single soldiers need to quit your bitching. Either find a woman to marry or make rank. Single E5 and below must live in the barracks period. The army can't afford E5 and below living off post missing formations, not paying their bills and being irresponsible. Most E1-E4 are those 17-20 year olds without any life skills and first time with a real paycheck and responsibilities. In all honesty, you joined the army at a late age and since you have a college degree then you should have become an officer. So the only advice is suck it up right now and put your OCS packet in.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 9:59 AM

2016-08-23T09:59:07-04:00

I don't disagree with this and never looked at it like that. Nice article Solider!

Also, Reserve and National Guard Officers, as well as full time staff in the Reserves and NG, also get discriminated against in regards to having to pay for their uniforms. If you're regular Army, you get a healthy stipend at the beginning of each year to pay for uniforms. But when new uniforms come out, such as what's happening now, these Soldiers now have to pay much more than $400 for the full sets, boots, and PT uniforms.

But I can also relate to the meals the army provides. Officers and AGR in the reserves also have to pay for their meals, oftentimes those meals are not up to par with the healthy eating lifestyle I currently practice.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-08-23T10:40:50-04:00

Depending on the leadership, married soldiers are given time off when they attend unit FRG functions with their spouse. Married soldiers are excused from all staff duty/CQ duty on the weekends. They get paid 3-4x the earnings of a single soldier and get to eat the meals they prefer. The DFACs serve the lowest quality food which aside from the bacon and eggs in the morning, isn't even actually cooked, it's just reheated. Active duty Army is the worst of all services. I have eaten at Marine Corps, Air force and Navy facilities, all of which offered better products. Hell Army food may rate at or below prison food according to my Guard units maintenance Warrant (works full time in corrections). The single soldier will be worked to death so married soldiers can enjoy family time. We had soldiers in my unit marry the village slut, knowing she was sleeping with other soldiers, and would probably take their money in a divorce process, just so they could get some rest, adequate lodging, and a decent meal. The transition from active army to national guard couldn't have been any better. Seriously dont miss the 14-15 hour days as an active duty supply sergeant for slaves pay.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 11:38 AM

2016-08-23T11:38:27-04:00

Let's dissect this. First, you are not "discriminated" against for being single. You are making a choice to be single. Married people cannot co-habitate in barracks and have children so they live on their own with BAH. You can have that too if you got married. Next, the Army is covering your living expenses to include utilities so you are not as you say "essentially paying $1068. That cost is derived by the DOD based on zip code to live on the economy. Name somewhere in the civilian world that pays your living expenses. There are probably some out there but not very common. I get that you get soldiers have same rights but it's only temporary until you prove yourself and become an NCO. Or, you can make the request to your Commander with justification that you be allowed to live off post. Good luck in this tight budget situation the Army finds itself in. Now on to chow. You don't or never will pay for food while living in barracks when you possess a meal card, unless you choose to go eat elsewhere. An E4 single soldier makes a decent living if you budget accordingly but many don't and then bitch about stuff like this. Again, if you don't like the situation you're in, go after that NCO rank or get married. Your choice too. Not discrimination. My bigger question is why someone almost 30 years old with a college degree is just an E4? Why is that? You chose to come in knowing your job and rank so suck it up, and stop whining. I can't speak for the unit you're in and why you claim you cannot park in a parking lot in front of the unit unless it's tiny. Married people have to commute to work every day spending money on fuel when you live right there. Army food. Eh, it's Army food. It's better than it was years ago but it is what it is. Deal with it. If married people are using your washers and dryers, tell them that's a NO-GO. They don't have that right to use anything in the barracks and should even be in there in the first place unless they are checking on soldiers. Sounds mostly like this whole rant while understandable, is nothing more than a soap box gripe of the entitlement generation. There is no discrimination going on. If you have a valid complaint, take it up with your chain of command.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 12:15 PM

2016-08-23T12:15:14-04:00

That is one hell of a rant!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-08-23T12:40:09-04:00

The barracks situation has improved tremendously over the years.
Keep in mind, there is also on post housing for which SMs don't get an allowance. The trade off is, no rent or utility bills. The same as the barracks, but with dependents. Which brings me to my next point... The "additional money" we get for having dependents does not completely offset the cost of said dependents. If you want to find out, get married.
This is just a ridiculous rant. Maybe it would be best for you to finish your tour and ETS...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 12:59 PM

2016-08-23T12:59:53-04:00

i can agree with just about every point your argument brings up. my issues with the barracks wasn't so much about money.

my barracks room was literally the size of a jail cell with a closet. we had no kitchen in the room or common areas; just a microwave. we made that work, though. no big deal.

the major issues i had were with how we were treated or disregarded. like not being able to shower after pt because maintenance was scheduled to begin at 8am and they had to cut the water off. or not having hot water for three months and fsbp saying there's nothing that could be done about it. or my csm telling me to buy everything i need to put my own screen in my first floor window because i'd been asking for one for over a year. or being forced to do staff duty or cq when the weather's bad. and not to mention being forced into a meal card when i never ate at the dfac for dietary reasons. i even went as far as to purchasing my own mattress, and when i tried to turn in my issued one fsbp refused to take it and said i had to keep it in my room.

but i never complained. i just made the choice to move out on my own. i knew i didn't have to live that way so i went to live how i wanted. best decision i ever made.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 23 at 2016 1:22 PM

2016-08-23T13:22:25-04:00

The age old question. It's Federal Government mentality. Why does the marrow red soldier get to deduct the spouse and kids on their taxes? Why does that same married soldier not have to pay the added benefits costs for the spouse and kids? Why do you get more BAH for having kids? You are right; it's not fair. It's culture. Now organizations like NCOA should be lobbing Congress on this issue.

In your case, why are you enlisted instead of a WO or Officer? Does it have anything to do with college reimbursement? Have you talked with you NCO Support Channel to see if the Co will have an NCO billeting / bunking policy? It may be a good thing. I bet if you went to the BOQ's LT area it would look one step better than a dorm room.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 7:19 PM

2016-08-23T19:19:15-04:00

Here's one. Unit moved from Bamberg to Baumholder. As a single E5 the Army moved my stuff and paid me $53.00 for gas to drive the 3.5 hours to the new post. My buddy who's an E6, married with 1 child was moved by the Army and paid $2800. Now, I'm all about the Army recognising the cost to move a family but almost 300% more? Nah, the Army/DOD is out of it's mind. And, nothing worse than being forced to stand in line and wait to eat subpar food because your pay is being legally stolen by the Army. Currently there's 3 married NCO's with DUI's and various legal issues living in the barracks. But here's my "never been in trouble" behind still living in a place with no AC. And, I'm way older than most folks here [46]. Yeah, I joined late.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:13 PM

2016-08-23T20:13:26-04:00

I agree and here's more. Single soldiers work longer hours and do more Guard duty. I was even told that to my face that the married his get to go home because they have families and we don't have anybody to go home to. Also after we came back from deployment and they had their little welcome home party everybody was allowed to go home except us single soldiers had to stay and clean up afterwards.
I agree with the whole meal situation. Of course we want to leave for meals because we don't have the means to have food at the barracks and to cook/prepare food. No hot plates or burners or any way to cook your food except the microwave. Hell we weren't even allowed to have coffee pots. Had to use our bathroom sinks to clean any dishes (until they remodeled the barracks). Just complete BS on how we were treated.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:52 PM

2016-08-23T20:52:23-04:00

I say suck it up. Back when I was a single soldier we didn't get money for housing or rations. We lived in a barracks environment, where 30 to 40 soldiers share the same sleeping area and bathroom area. Now a days you get an apartment type room to share with one other, you get your own bathroom, you have the utilities paid for (water, heat, a/c, television, laundry facilities etc...) and the government is paying for it instead of giving you money. You complain that you have to pay for your meals out of the $300.00 that you get from the government. I get the same monetary amount for food but have to feed a husband and a child as well. I wish the military provided me with base housing, cable, laundry facilities, electricity, heat, a/c, etc.....for me and my family. The BAH that married couples receive is sometimes far from adequate to support a family in most base areas.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 24 at 2016 12:03 AM

2016-08-24T00:03:29-04:00

I get your point and agree. 1955, 8 married NCOs shared a tent at Camp Casey. Some were married. Later at Ft Lewis, I too resented the $ differential between single and married Soldiers. We did have our luxuries, mosquito nets!

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Aug 24 at 2016 12:39 AM

2016-08-24T00:39:52-04:00

Back when I was an enlisted soldier, I did not join for $$$ as your focus seems to be. I was happy they gave me a roof, three meals a day, free medical, and all my gear. You SGT are not living in the barracks based entirely off being single but your status at your location. I would have preferred to have lived in the barracks as a young single 2LT but officers do not have that luxury. You are a college graduate, commissioning is the fastest way to change your $$$ concerns, not whining on rally point. Are you angry at me for using my free medical and that you do not receive a paycheck for the medical you as a young man do not use? If you are not happy with how things are, you can do what many of us did and change your circumstances. Go to OCS, get a commission or better yet, get the hell out and go work for a fortune 500 company and get all that you feel you deserve. There is not some big plan out there that discriminates against you because you have no love in your life.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Aug 24 at 2016 2:02 AM

2016-08-24T02:02:52-04:00

You have a kitchen in your room?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 8:31 AM

2016-08-24T08:31:31-04:00

First let me say,that SOME of your points are valid. Married people who live on post are due for inspections also, due to the fact that they are living in privatized housing and the upkeep costs. Mind you I understand that you being a 27 year old grown person, I believe that Soldiers over the age of 25 that are single and E4 and below should be allowed separate living quarters, I have done that for some of the Soldiers I have had. As far as inspections, there shouldn't be a strict inspection where they are requiring you to have the living quarters as we did in basic and AIT; inspections should be based off cleanliness and functionality of the living area. There are time where we as NCO's have to lay the law down, because a cluttered space equals a cluttered mind to some who need some discipline. Now, on to the food situation. I agree 100% that your money shouldn't be taken away every month, because the Dining facilities do tend not to care about the soldier's who have no alternatives, I would say at least 70 % should be deducted leaving you with some funds to get food off post. I am food service and I do understand that, that is why I am one to ensure that if a Soldier or any grade has to eat in my facility it is going to be something they can appreciate, but we all know the reputation of bad DFAC food has to be erased somewhere. I will say this you do have a voice use it. There is the BOSS program you can definitely get the issues out there so that you can be heard, be apart of the DFAC counsel meeting that every DFAC has every month unless they are slacking or unforeseen instances occur..I do hope that you find a balance, just don't go out there and get married just to get out of the barracks, Soldiers have been doing that for a very long time and the government is now doing something about it. Talk to your command and see if there is a way for you to be able to be moved to another room and if there are rooms available enough for you to have your own space, at any given time there is always a room that is vacant just ask at.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Aug 24 at 2016 11:49 PM

2016-08-24T23:49:13-04:00

I'l be honest, i didnt read the entire rant. When i was in the Marine Corps we had four to a room, nco's had two. But it was still only 1 room !! Not an apartment. By the way, as a single soldier you dont have to pass the inspection to get out of base housing (with little kids) at that. I see your every point, and as a single Marine I felt the same way. The only thing i can say is be patient my friend. I am sure your are a real good trooper and can proceed in rank quickly through metitoriuos boards and such. Then you will get what you seek. Hang in there.

Response by Sgt Jamie Grippin made Aug 26 at 2016 7:17 PM

2016-08-26T19:17:28-04:00

It sounds like you don't belong in the military. Next your'e going think you should have some say so in where you are stationed or deployed. Why do I have to stand duty this weekend if I already worked Monday through Friday. If you want to live like a civilian then go be civilian. Where I think we screwed up is letting individuals marry during thier first enlistment or under the pay grade of E-5. There was a time when you even needed permission to get married. If you think the government is over charging you trying paying for a dorm room in college. You joined the service willingly. The needs of the service come first. If you think it's that bad then don't reenlist.

Response by SGT Rodrigo Contreras made Aug 26 at 2016 7:29 PM

2016-08-26T19:29:44-04:00

Put in for missed meal vouchers with S-1 any time you miss a meal due to working parties or delays due to said details. Flood that office with paperwork and get your money back. Pretty soon CoC will be getting their shit together and letting you guys off on time to eat or they'll be answering to IG and JAG for mistreatment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2016 7:35 PM

2016-08-26T19:35:30-04:00

Hey that's the Flaming Butthole patch they got on there. Lol AKA 37th IBCT OHARNG.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2016 8:48 PM

2016-08-26T20:48:40-04:00

Thats completely false. Barracks soldiers and married soldiers arre still held to the same exact standards. The difference is they are married and have a house on or off post. You dont receive BAH living in the Barracks as a single E-4. If you are you are in violation of your benefits, and you need to go correct that with your finance office. Barracks inspections are for your own benefit of having a clean living area. Yes they are annoying, but they are neccessary.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2016 8:55 PM

2016-08-26T20:55:08-04:00

College degree? Went enlisted? Should have went OCS dude, but you went enlisted, which tells me 1 of 2 things. 1. You're not as smart as your degree says you are. 2. The Army was a last resort because your degree wasn't getting you the jobs you thought it would.

Response by TSgt John Logan made Aug 26 at 2016 9:09 PM

2016-08-26T21:09:26-04:00

https://www.army.mil/article/151308

To become 'force of future,' Army must fix personnel churn

To become a

Response by CPL William Boynton made Aug 26 at 2016 9:52 PM

2016-08-26T21:52:27-04:00

Well after reading this I feel old not sure why you're such a nice room for example separate bedrooms and a kitchen . You have it made your living at the Ritz at my first duty station the barracks consisted of rooms for 2 to 6 soldiers with every thing you needed bunks and wall lockers and a head on the first floor

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 12:41 AM

2016-08-27T00:41:20-04:00

You are incorrect. The Army "discriminates" against junior enlisted by developing one-size -fits-all policies. You are experiencing that by being a non-traditional junior enlisted (presumably by entering later than most). The Army says it will feed and shelter -- not feed and shelter according to your preferences. The majority of junior enlisted are 18-22 who can use a little oversight, especially when they aren't in a more rigid combat zone. Having a roommate and limited personal property is the norm for people in this age group.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 1:47 AM

2016-08-27T01:47:53-04:00

First, you are confusing your age with your situation; age only matters at physical fitness time! Second, you are a single Soldier and housing is supplied for the single Soldiers; deal with it or get married but done cry foul because you don't have the extra responsibilities of raising a family, fighting traffic to get to work, dealing with crooks downtown that pray on young Soldiers, have to stay up late doing homework with the kids, help the wife around the house, still has his or her professional growth to tend to, AND HAS TO JOIN IN ON POLICE CALL AROUND COMPANY BARRACKS OR COME IN TO ASSIST WITH MANAGING LAZY SOLDIERS THAT WONT CLEAN COMMON AREAS.
The money that a Married Soldier gets to offset the cost associated with living on the local economy does not add up, don't kid yourself. Plus, if a Soldier lives in family housing, it is small the neighborhoods are congested and you don't get a choice of where you live. And you don't get the BAH also, before you clear quarters, it is expected to look better than when you moved in.
With good leadership, the workload is equal and while you wake up 15minutes prior to work, he or she is up2 hours prior, dropping off kids, fighting to get through the gate and a ton of other crap. And don't mention duty, you have the your room right there and access to it, he or she has to arrange for overnight care, have a family care plan or coordinate with the wife or husband, WHO HAS TO WORK ALSO, IN MOST CASES, to ensure the ball does not drop.
We are the 1% that gives our all for so many but we when we signed up that we would loose some rights and freedoms. YOU ARE IN A GOOD SITUATION, BEING IN THE ARMY! Although it has its ups and down, you are in the right place. EMBRACE THE SUCK AND FIND WAYS TO MAKE IT BETTER FOR THOSE BEHIND YOU!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 3:44 AM

2016-08-27T03:44:29-04:00

Unfortunately you make some valuable arguments, but there are other things that single soldiers get that married ones do not.

Let me start off with saying be thankful you live in Army barracks. When I was a Corpsman stationed with the Marines in Camp Lejeune I had 3 other people living in my room. 2 sets of bunk beds, 4 wall lockers and an bathroom. That's it.

But while you aren't receiving BAH you also don't have to deal with post housing.

Another thing is the BOSS program. I am stationed in Alaska and if I want to go halibut fishing it will cost me almost a grand if not more for the same trip a single soldier can take for 150 bucks.

There are ups and downs on both sides of the fence. And as you get promoted you can recieved BAH and be single. Sgt (p) gets BAH at my last 2 duty stations.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 5:20 AM

2016-08-27T05:20:59-04:00

Preach brother preach!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 6:41 AM

2016-08-27T06:41:11-04:00

You have many valid points, and I will agree with you on most but not everything. Believe it or not, the Army has come a long time in the past 3-4 decades. I've only been in for nearly 18 years, but I remember old timers taking about the "good ol' days" when married Soldiers would often be told by their leadership: "If the Army wanted you to have a wife, they'd have issued you one". That is to say, married Soldiers used to be discriminated against more so than single Soldiers.

As for the barracks, again, I hear what you are saying, but just 10 years ago, when I was in Korea, Soldiers were living two to a room with a bathroom they shared with the two Soldiers living in the next room over. No common area with a kitchenette shared by two roommates. You want to cook? Go to common area at the end of the hall, shared by everyone on your floor. There you can cook, play pool or whatever with 50 of your closest friends. When I was in college, 15 years ago or so, I lived in the dorms for the first year and a half. There I had a roommate sharing the same room with me, and a community bathroom for every guy on my floor. We were a dry campus, so no alcohol was allowed in the dorms, even though I turned 21 three months into my Freshman year. Oh, and I paid the university $2,000 per semester for the privilege of living there. Soldiers in the barracks today have it much better than that by far.

As for the separate rats that married Soldiers get, I believe that many would counter your arguement, saying that they are forced to work through lunch or work late, to cover for the Soldiers who must eat at the DFAC.

By now you're probably thinking that I'm not on your side. Not true. I'm just providing perspective that things used to be much worse than they are today. I believe the military should get rid of barracks entirely. Now I'm no budgetary expert, but it seems to me that paying each single Soldier the local BAH rate to live off post is the way to go. It would save on the cost of building new barracks and remodeling old ones, maintaining them, paying utilities on them, and it would definitely save the chain of command time not having to inspect them. It would also teach Soldiers some much needed financial management skills. If you can't pay your rent or utilities because you blew your entire pay check on booze, make that a UCMJ punishable offense, but otherwise keep the chain of command out of Soldiers' living arrangements. We have way more barracks space than we have Soldiers, anyway, and with the drawdown, it's getting worse. When I was a CO in Germany, I commanded a company with 162 Soldiers authorized. We had a barracks with space for 160 Soldiers, but at any time we only filled 60-70 rooms. That's less than a 50% occupancy rate. Now tell me that wasn't a waste. To add to it, they were building new barracks on that post, even as they deactivated the post's largest tenant unit. So... just my two cents, but if the Army has that kind of cash to throw away, they could just as easily pay your BAH (or OHA) to live off post, and use the land for more training area.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Aug 27 at 2016 8:40 AM

2016-08-27T08:40:56-04:00

Every time I read one of these I am thrilled to have left the Army and joined the Navy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 11:07 AM

2016-08-27T11:07:51-04:00

I don't disagree with this Soldier but I would attack it from a different direction. The "pay" issue is a joke. The only time in my career I felt I was ahead of the game was overseas, I was married before I joined.

I would rather attack it from the direction of creating responsible and effective adults for the rest of society. Face it, we can't do this forever, it ends for all of us. A vast majority leave the military before they ever get the chance to live like an "adult". With that said, I don't think the barracks should exist. Every soldier should have to learn the skills of paying bills, managing funds, cooking, cleaning and care of ones own environment. The DFACs should be payment only.

This would take our young troops and teach them life skills that their counterparts outside the military are vastly ahead of them at. Would there be problems, yes, but just like your 3 levels of policy to figure out what you can and can't do, policies can be written protecting the military from any wrong doing by the individual. We baby our young way to much in this country, we need to ensure the next generation of youth has the skills and the capacity to live on their own.

None of this will ever happen it is completely an opinion, but I think it should.

Response by PO2 Devrie Paradowski made Aug 27 at 2016 12:56 PM

2016-08-27T12:56:14-04:00

They're not discriminating against single soldiers. They are accommodating married soldiers, because that's a normal life event, for which you may encounter during your own career. If you do get married and have children some day, you will have those accommodations available to you just the same. How many military members could ever make a career out of the military if they did not have those accommodations for a growing family? At some juncture during a 20 or more year career, they will surely get married or start a family, as you (and/or many of your peers) will likely do. If you eat free meals and stay in a free barracks, you are being provided a service.

If you are staying in the barracks and not getting a housing allowance, you are not "paying" the amount you would receive if you were accompanied. You are receiving an amount based your dependent status via free housing.

The normal course of marriage and children isn't so easy in the military life. Spouses cannot maintain long-term careers, as they are moving from place to place. Costs increase exponentially when people have spouses and children, and when the spouse has limited income options due to constant moving, the military has made adjustments to acknowledge normal human family events. If you are frustrated that something is available to someone else, you are not seeing how it is available to you when you will need it. You are eligible for those things too, even though at the moment, you are not in the position to require those accommodations.

Base housing can be inspected. Off base housing is ripe for lost deposits and other costs. BAH may not even fully cover available housing off-base, and many military families end up paying out of pocket for housing, not because they want a fancy house, but because it can be very difficult to even find a place to live. As an E-4, I remember living in a hotel for a few weeks trying to find an available place.

We all have different challenges. I fear you are only looking at the "benefits" and not considering why those beneifts exist nor what challenges soldiers who are married face outside the scope of your own situation. A single soldier with the same benefits would have an amazing ride with those beneifts, but it's not the same if you have a family. If you're picturing how it would benefit you, you're missing the bigger picture.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 1:40 PM

2016-08-27T13:40:22-04:00

I still had money to save while living in the barracks. Not only did I have a TSP but I saved on the side too. It's all a matter of perspective. I was at Knox, camp Casey, and Carson and every one of them was the same in that the Barracks were full of drunk soldiers, hookers, and pizza delivery guys every weekend. I made my own meals on my electric skillet, rice cooker, or micro wave and didn't care much about the meal deductions. I never had a problem with inspections as I kept my room organized. I had a lot of things but MY unit wasn't worried about little things like hospital corners. They understood there is a difference between dirty, messy, or just a little disorganized. I had been to a lot of married junior NCO houses and they were absolutely disgusting. So, I agree on some of this but mostly I say "Suck it up buttercup." I'm not one to let people walk on me but i also knew I signed up for a life where I'd have to learn to live without.

Response by SPC James Harsh made Aug 27 at 2016 5:14 PM

2016-08-27T17:14:41-04:00

Can you 'marry' your battle buddy?

Response by SFC George Smith made Aug 27 at 2016 5:22 PM

2016-08-27T17:22:14-04:00

I never saw the as Deck Stacked ...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2016 7:10 PM

2016-08-27T19:10:57-04:00

So I did some research. An E1-E4 single soldier with no dependent gets 954 for BAH at fort hood. The most expensive apartment I found was a 3br 3ba at 1,169. If 3 soldiers lived there each soldier would save 564.33 a month on BAH. Plus this apartment has all the amenities as they get on post. They have a fitness center, a pool, A/C, laundry room and hookups for a washer and dryer, and much more. If these apartment complexes can stay in business for this amount of money than it makes me ask the question of where the hell is the money going?

I live in a 4br 2 Ba house for 950. If all 4 rooms were occupied that would save each soldier 716.50 a month on BAH. You wouldn't even need to pay them BAS with those kind of savings. This doesn't make sense to me.

If the army is making so much money on its soldiers living in the barracks then why does it take so long to renovate these old and decrepit barracks.

I went to school recently and I was suppose to stay in the barracks but they recently declared it unlivable. Why does a barracks even get that far before a Reno is done?

Response by SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) made Aug 27 at 2016 7:19 PM

2016-08-27T19:19:35-04:00

In the 17.5 years I was in I do not recall ever really being discriminated against as a single soldier. I do recall having issues when I had kids, however that was not the military's fault. I also watched mothers of 6 week old children ship out to mobilize in the Middle East. I had to pull special strings to get a soldier back early for R&R to see his child born.

I don;t think it is a discrimination against single soldiers. I think it is a new mentality where we have an influx of soldiers who think they are entitled.

Response by Sgt Jeffrey Ford made Aug 27 at 2016 9:23 PM

2016-08-27T21:23:28-04:00

Single soldiers definitely get the shaft, if Uncle Sam wanted you to have a wife and kids he would have issued them to
You.

Response by SFC Rob Frisk made Aug 28 at 2016 6:12 PM

2016-08-28T18:12:59-04:00

I've lived in all 3 during my career. As an NCO you should respect the rational of baracks inspection- and though you don't get inspected per say with quarters you're still responsible (which you'd quickly learn if you've ever had to clear) and where else are you going to get your food and shelter covered for so little while being so close to work? Today's soldiers whine about everything.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Aug 29 at 2016 12:12 AM

2016-08-29T00:12:04-04:00

Geez, this argument has been going on since I was in service in the 1980's. A couple of comments. I felt the same way my first 18 months in the Army and saw the same things. What changed? My Army unit, I went from one I thought sucked to the wonderful 101st Airborne Division. Suddenly I was in an Army unit focused on training up for the next conflict instead of one that wanted it's Soldiers to look nice at all times. Big difference there and just mentioning. Second, inspections are part of being in the Army and your Chain of Command should have a barracks maintenence SOP book on what the standards are. If they don't then suggest it to your 1SG and put one together. However, your just plain crazy if you think private housing is not inspected by the Army. It should be by your immediate Chain of Command on a regular basis but some don't do it unless they overhear barracks talk that so and so can't afford shoes for his kids. DFACs or as an old guy like me calls them Mess Halls, in my day the 101st kept one Mess Hall open 24 by 7 on post for the Soldiers that miss a meal.......so check that out first before you assume there is no way to recover. Also, if you find your regularly missing meals because someone higher on the chain of command can't manage time, then go see your 1SG as that is a quality of life issue. Missing a meal here or there is not going to kill you. The last thing I see that your doing is significantly underrating a Married Soldier, depending on the marriage they generally have two 1SG to keep happy, one at home and one on post. When the one at home gets mad it impacts a lot more than meals. So the whole parking lot restriction thing that existed when I was in uniform is to recognize that most Married Soldiers because they have a kid or need to drive off and on post a few times a day (where you do not) it's nice to have a ready available parking space to pull into to get to formation on time. So I think that is a courtesy the Army is extending to them knowing and respecting their Married obligations.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-08-29T14:01:06-04:00

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2016 8:50 PM

2016-08-30T20:50:11-04:00

Why don't you get family SEP Pay when you're Deployed as a single soldier? A single soldier is also separated from their family during a 6-12 month deployment where they cannot take leave or pass to see family.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2016 1:32 PM

2016-09-08T13:32:49-04:00

Everyone who has commented on this question who defends the practices of discrimination against single Soldiers should really read the following: http://militarypay.defense.gov/Portals/107/Documents/Reports/GreenBook_2015.pdf. It shows only the pure cash compensation paid to single Soldiers vs. married (or otherwise with dependents). Even with not taking into account the vast compensation derived from the vast benefit value that accrues at a much higher rate to those with dependents/married than those who are single/without dependents, this document clearly provides the data points to substantiate what WO1 Private RallyPoint Member is discussing here.

Reject this data all you like, but them's the facts, folks: the Army systematically discriminates against single Soldiers / those without dependents.

Error

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2016 9:45 PM

2016-09-24T21:45:42-04:00

You sir, deserve a COA for this magnificent representation of the status for Single Soldiers. Yes, we are discriminated in multiple methods but the infinity of it would take more than a publication including a variety of personal experiences nationwide. We are treated as worthless but often times we do and strive better than soldiers who are married. Some will say sick it up but for how long until you knock that next door neighbor out who you've been meaning I'll will since then say fuck it I'm out. Depending on you MOS E6 is not something you can expect to obtain within 5 years quick nor marriage depending on your personal stance of it. Marriage in general should not be rushed but because of the military you find most will bend either morals or their own rules just to keep up or not get frowned upon. It's can be cruel experience as you move from one unit to the next. I love the follow ups though when these E6's make rank and you see the trouble they ensue themselves into. Because of rank most of the time they get leniency or they fail at what people expet to be common life lessons. But what do you expect? Big Brother takes you in throws you in a room with a refrigerator and bed then hands you a meal card. He tells you you got a nice set up and won't have to worry bout a thing. Then one day your an E6 having to take care of stuff that most people your age should already know. But what you see is a bigger pay increase and some unexplored freedom. What do you do? Pay them child support bills or turn up on that tuesday? I would infinity vote you if I could but I'm sure fellow survivors will find this post and what can be done.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Sep 24 at 2016 10:35 PM

2016-09-24T22:35:59-04:00

THAT IS NOT TRUE I HAVE BEEN SINGLE AND MARRIED IN MY 16.5 YRS AND THAT NEVER HAPPEND TO ME.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2016 1:02 PM

2016-10-07T13:02:38-04:00

I will not address your issues with barracks inspections. Commands can, and should, inspect off post housing. That is part of taking care of your Soldiers and making sure they are living in adequate conditions. I see your point about the differing barracks policies. That is a leadership issue and should be addressed (NOT by just complaining, but by offering suggestions for improvement) via multiple avenues available to Soldiers to air their grievances. I will spend some time addressing your issue with BAH. I would challenge you to find out WHY this exists. This can be found by a simple good search as to how BAH is calculated. It should be on the DFAS website. The next important thing is to understand that BAH is NOT pay. It is an allowance (much the same as your meal card). It used to be the Army provided everyone housing and food. They still have to do that. Unfortunately, they cannot afford to build and maintain all that housing for both married and single servicemembers. That is why they have BAH. The size of our allocated housing is based on your rank and it has been that way for a long time. Each rank with and without dependents is allocated a specific type and size of housing. BAH depends on the cost of that specific type of housing in that immediate area. A single E-5 does not need a two bedroom stand alone home, he gets a one bedroom apartment... that costs X. An E5 with dependents needs a two bedroom apartment... that costs Y. That is where the difference comes from.

There are all types of perceived unfairness when it comes to housing. Take on-post housing. I may live in the same size house as someone of a lower rank... but I pay more, sometimes for the exact same home. That goes back to BAH being an "allowance", not pay. I also remember wanting to live on post as a single officer, but was never allowed to. The Army did away with the old BOQs (Bachelor Officers Quarters) a long time ago due to the cost of maintaining the buildings. That is the main reason why housing is privatized on post now.

So you can find this in many places across the Army. But if you look at it from a macro perspective, it makes more sense. For every "fix", there are other problems created. Many of the policies are the least bad of several options, the easiest to manage at the DOD level, or the one that causes the least number of problems. We all want what is perfect for US... but it's not about US.

Response by SSG Genaro Negrete made Oct 13 at 2016 6:46 PM

2016-10-13T18:46:21-04:00

I realize I'm very late to the conversation, but here goes. "Discrimination" seems to be too strong a word. Granted, there does exist a very visible form of inequity in the two circumstances. The money being "spent" on your barracks room goes towards a management company hired to keep a multitude of buildings serviceable for single soldiers to live in. Since the barracks system was removed from the purview of senior NCOs, it's a civilian company that's expected to manage the condition of the building. This doesn't infringe on an NCO or officer's general military authority to ensure the health and welfare of the soldiers placed under them. So room inspections are going to happen. And they will undoubtedly remain extremely subjective unless you can convince installation commanders to create the position of SGM of room inspections to ensure one person is the same one inspecting every room on post.

Obviously that last suggestion is inane. The actual discrimination you mention seems to do more with the specific leaders your are/were involved with rather than the Army as a whole. The Army is an organization tasked with fighting and winning its nations wars (in conjunction with the other services). It doesn't care about you, your family, what you have for lunch, when you have lunch, or how broken you are when it can no longer use you. The Army, and government by extension, literally pays PEOPLE to care about such things. It even created the BOSS program to give soldiers a voice on these exact issues directly to the installation command team.

Using the word "discrimination" implies you are being victimized by the Army. The details of your account point towards PEOPLE that are failing in their basic duties. It's asinine for a married soldier (regardless of rank) to criticize a single soldier for going to lunch during the lunch hour, especially when that single soldier is a meal card holder.

It seems odd that your complaints include not being able to park where you want or make your bed how you see fit. Welcome to the world of the enlisted soldier. The best advice I can offer is, instead of apathy about the military and military leadership in general, push your way to the front of the ranks. Become the senior NCO that calls out these inequities. The kind of NCO that pulls aside an LT and explains that it's the sergeant's responsibility to ensure standards are being enforced at the individual/ team level. So that if corrective training is issued, it can be followed up by a leader who will be extremely invested in the results. Not an officer who will be pulled away with big picture operations planning. (but that's a whole different discussion i'm always very happy to engage in).

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2017 6:21 PM

2017-01-08T18:21:57-05:00

I totally agree with you 100%! I myself hate the dfac and see no point in the dfac. Being in the military 7 years now is SGT P and still have to live in the Bs and have a meal card that I NEVER use. Plus my mos doesn't allow a normal work schedule so if you miss the dfac time tough shit. I hate the meal card and yes that $300 goes to waste because I never ever use it. The Army won't pay me back hell no. So I feel your pain in this.

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Jan 16 at 2017 1:21 PM

2017-01-16T13:21:17-05:00

It happens in civilian life as well.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Mar 31 at 2017 12:09 PM

2017-03-31T12:09:53-04:00

If pay were equaled out and you were allowed to move into the surrounding community, I bet prices for places to live would go up as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 12:49 PM

2017-03-31T12:49:43-04:00

Devil's advocate approach:
A married Soldier (especially with children) also has more responsibility. In many cases the BAH (an entitlement) barely covers rent in many locations, let alone the utilities. BAS is also an entitlement for the Service Member, and you are correct in the regard that they can choose when/where to use it. It is however not intended to be used for family groceries. The more mouths to feed, the larger the monthly bill. Something a single Soldier does not have to worry about. As far as utilities go; the larger a living area, the more electricity, gas, and water is used. Those are bills people with BAH (excluding on-post, it's covered in the post housing agreement and pro-rated monthly) need to pay or it will be turned off. Utilities are not intended to be paid using BAH, though there are many who can find a place to rent/ buy (depending on their personal budget) and end up on a slightly profitable side, generally not by a large margin. Additionally, Soldiers with families also have to provide more them, i.e. clothes, school supplies (age dependent), child care (if applicable), and certain medical care. A spouse of course, can work if an opportunity is present. There are also many various factors which need to be taken into consideration for that dual income. Is it worth it if child care is needed, are jobs available with his/her work expertise, education (maybe considering a higher degree of education is needed and money needs to be spent in order to achieve it), and I am sure there are more personal factors which could be included.

Biased agreement:
Room inspections do seem unfair, especially since you graduated from basic and advanced training. The main purpose is not for inconvenience, the NCO doing the inspection likely does not want to be there either. It is to ensure you are living safely and have an acceptable clean living environment. Some leadership may go over board, as you stated with the essay. As long as the room is clean (according to SOP), take it with a grain of salt. It won't halt your career. For what it's worth quarter inspections also occur when you are deployed...
The parking situation however, does seem unfair. When I was living in barracks, that was considered my house and I was allowed to park as close as I could in the main parking lot. This meant that if the married/ single Soldiers with authorized housing wanted a good spot to park, they would need to leave their house earlier in order to get there before anyone else.
The DFAC.. at least you don't have to worry about cooking..

Response by SGT Robert Mcfadden made Mar 31 at 2017 12:50 PM

2017-03-31T12:50:32-04:00

Try living off post at Ft Lewis with 2 kids under 2. Dinner was Mac and cheese and hot dogs, no lunch and no breakfast. That was as a pvt thru spc. Now after I became an nco it was better not great lol. As far as inspections as a squad leader I was expected to go to every members home and make sure that they were able to maintain a household. We didn't inspect for dust, just like a health and welfare check.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 1:03 PM

2017-03-31T13:03:39-04:00

....Facebook, you got me (posted on my feed). Just noticed the thread was initially started May 18, 2014. I think the Facebook/Rally Point wanted to re-visit this for some reason.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 1:09 PM

2017-03-31T13:09:46-04:00

Sgt Eric, don't think it is a bed of roses for married folks.
My father was military and we lived in base housing through out all of his career. I joined the military when I was 17. I lived in base housing when I was in Germany. The rest of my career I spent off base. When I was a young airman with a child, I always wondered why higher ranking individuals got base housing and I could not. Living off base meant I did not have the option of walking or riding a bike to work. I had to have a car. Why is it that a E-5 gets base housing while an E-1 to E-4 has to live in a junk trailer somewhere in a bad neighborhood? My father was a 1stSgt his later years in the AF and they required him to live on base. I get that. But housing should be provided to the younger people first, not the NCOs. Make apartments for small families and make them use them before taking quarters off base. Most of them would be living in much better conditions.
When I was an E-3 it cost me more for rent in a piece of crap than the AF was providing. I was a married E-3 with one child, I applied for food stamps and could not get them. An E-5 living on base with two children was getting them. SERIOUSLY?

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Mar 31 at 2017 2:38 PM

2017-03-31T14:38:30-04:00

Infantry: They don't make them like they use to.

Response by PO1 RIchard Petty made Mar 31 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-03-31T15:19:46-04:00

Got are complaining about living in the barracks with a kitchen and one person The Corps requires at least three to a room with no kitchen, but things are changing for them. Hell try living on a ship where the size of your rack is the size of a coffin and the only privacy is a curtain even the senior leadership have to share a stateroom unless you are an O-5 then you have your own and that depends on what you are on. So, quit your bitching suck it up and live with you got.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Mar 31 at 2017 3:27 PM

2017-03-31T15:27:30-04:00

Let me start this by saying would you like a crying towel. I have lived both sides of this. When I was on active duty and living in the Barracks our room I say our I shared a small room with another E-4 divided by wall lockers the hole floor shared the latrine no kitchen no microwave was allowed in the room ( 2 Microwaves were in the Day room for the whole unit)at the time and only the micro fridges was allowed. Now on to the life off post you do realize the money that they receive is based on two or more people so those people you are envying are generally not living as well as you are. They not only have themselves to feed but a wife and usually children to not only feed but to clothe. Not to mention that you know that free medical you get they have deductibles for some of their family medical expenses. Oh and those Sweet apartments you mentioned they have these things called utilities that have to be payed. Oh and back in the Day we did have inspections surprise inspections called health and welfare inspections. Back then it wasn't unusual for Married soldiers to be drawing food stamps because our income was so low. So you might want to re-evaluate what you think of that green grass. you mentioned about pulling the meal card marred soldiers don't have that to pull. Also think about this when you deploy you have only your self to worry about your married piers have so much more to worry about. So next time you feel discriminated against go find some one and get married and join the other side you will find the other side is very difficult and they really get no favors. Just remember While you live in the barracks you really have no bills to worry about.

Response by SPC Hannah Maxwell made Mar 31 at 2017 4:55 PM

2017-03-31T16:55:33-04:00

Could not agree with this more. Being a short female with a more built structure, I always struggled with the height and weight standards. Due to me being on a meal card, it was hard to afford the diet I needed in order to shed a few more pounds to not get flagged. I think standards should definitely be adjusted when it comes to single soldiers being forced to be on a meal card!
Also, I think it is ridiculous how much they take out for BAH. My barracks were not awful, but definitely not worth what I was paying for them. Not too mention, as you previously stated, that you also have a roommate. So you both are paying for BAH for a room the size of a college dorm which is completely absurd. The BAH they take out should accommodate for "rent" and averaging cost for utilities, which would help save soldiers money and be more financially stable when it comes to saving money or starting an early retirement fund.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 5:52 PM

2017-03-31T17:52:32-04:00

I agree with some of what you say being single once in the barracks, but just know that at the end of the month with all my bills with wife and kids, you have more money then me.

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Apr 1 at 2017 1:09 PM

2017-04-01T13:09:13-04:00

You get a kitchen and a private bedroom!? Shit that's heaven. I had to hide my "kitchen" in an upper locker with a lock on it. Four latrines on two floors, no semi private baths. Our rooms were designed to hold up to four...there were four lockers. Luckily the most in one room were two. WWII bunks and mattresses. Most of us did go out and buy our own bedding. Suck it up buttercup! You got it good!

The money you claim to pay for that wonderful room you get isn't coming out of your pocket. It's an added benefit for those who have to live off base because of no housing vacancies. I did finally choose to move out of the dorm and rent a duplex with my roommate. It was hard to cover all the costs we hadn't thought of over the rent....electricity, water, garbage, phone, heat (if it was other than electric),more gas for the commute. Oh and when I got married and received the BAS and BAQ...it wasn't enough to cover all the costs either. Made it easier but we still had to find the cheapest rental we could.

I will agree with you on one point. Inspections. I did argue that with a married TSgt. Why was my dorm room inspected when his house wasn't, he lived in base housing. All they inspected in base housing was the lawn. He looked kinda indignant and said but that was where he lived. And looked a little shocked and dumbfounded when I reminded him that the dorm was where I lived and I didn't appreciate my bedroom being a showcase for visiting brass.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2017 1:20 PM

2017-04-01T13:20:58-04:00

Yes, you are a whiner. You're in the Army and whining about walking from a parking lot? While I agree that having your 'home' inspected is a pain, it isn't really your home and you are not really as free as a civilian. Being in the Army means you give up freedoms, such as what goes in your room, where you park, what/when you eat, etc. You are a part of the big Green machine. After you've been in a while you'll gain rank and privileges. That's the way it works. For now, you're still in the do as your told stage. (Which kinda never goes away, regardless of rank...you just get a little freedom). If you want your own place, be a civilian. Or get married. Then you'll see what loss of freedom is all about.

Response by CPO William Zaczek made Apr 1 at 2017 1:48 PM

2017-04-01T13:48:17-04:00

Being single and being a single parent are two different topics. Single soldiers/sailors should be housed in a barracks type environment. Inspections are required to teach what is expected from them in caring for property they are entrusted with. YES, there can be conflicting requirements but as always, the last and latest order is the first obeyed. When in a barracks environment BAH does not get disbursed into a barracks "fund" to cover the cost of housing it is simply not disbursed. A single, divorced or widowed soldier/sailor should be allowed, and some are, to be assigned housing as they are a family and I agree in some cases, inspection of the on base property should be inspected and in fact it is but it usually takes a severe case of neglect before that happens. Some of the difficulties come when the service member is deployed or TAD or otherwise unable to care directly for the child(ren) as to WHO can stay in the government quarters and be responsible for the minor(s) so in those situations off base housing (apts) are usually the best option and BAH is given to the soldier/sailor to off set costs.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 4:43 AM

2017-04-03T04:43:54-04:00

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member I want to start by saying I used to be of this thought and it upset me to no end. A few things have changed my mind on some things as you can tell below.

I do not think it is discrimination by the organization, just individuals who abuse it. As other stated the meals are provided. My BAS does not come close to paying for my meals and I am single and live off post. The housing allowance is to pay for rent, but I end up having bills over the rent as well such as internet, electric, water, sewer, etc. The post provides most if not all of these from what I have heard.

The big difference is family separation and bump in BAH when you are married (if you are receiving BAH and not in barracks). While the military never told you to get married it is good that they know if your family is not taken care of you will worry about your family and be distracted from your mission. However, if I can afford a bigger house that could fit a family in with my BAH why are they getting more? Is it to cover for higher water and electric bill?

The actual discrimination piece comes into play when it comes to CQ, CQ runner, working holidays, working weekends, working late, etc. when only single Soldiers are assigned to do these. I had the senior civilian of our battalion tell me that she would stay late after work if it was not for her three kids (she was a single mother). That is understandable but she did not leave it there. She said you and ____ can stay because you are both single and have no family here. That assumption is ridiculous. That is like saying you should only get time off work if you have a family, but how are you to meet anyone if you are working 18 hours a day as those with families leave you doing their work so they can go home. She was worthless in her position and a terrible example for her subordinates. That is toxic leadership. That is the type of discrimination that I have seen.

Response by SPC Justin MacKellar made Apr 4 at 2017 6:01 PM

2017-04-04T18:01:39-04:00

You are never going to get the pay situation sorted out, just get used to that $300 taken out every month.

As for living in the barracks, it sucks. Regardless of how clean your room and common areas are there always seems to be some scumbag Private with 100 pizza boxes in his closet, and mushrooms growing out of his pillowcase. Having to haul out everything you own and assemble it in the grass and spend hours scrubbing other soldiers' rooms can get tiring really quick. But what can you do about it? Some people are just inherently dirty. The odds are that this PVT Scumbag is the same guy who needs an NCO to order him to shower on FTXs and NTC/JRTC rotations with functioning showers.

Response by SFC Timothy N. Livengood made Apr 7 at 2017 9:52 AM

2017-04-07T09:52:25-04:00

Though I realize the Army has changed considerably over the past years since I served (87-04). When I was in and lived in the barracks, we were just going to the single soldier living quarters or barracks towards the end of my career where I was stationed at the time. We didn't even get BAH at that point. If I understand your comments, you are getting a BAH to aid in the cost of living in the barracks. When someone receives BAH it is essentially based on the number of members in your family. It is essentially to allow to pay for the rent or the housing you are in. A married soldier may have to pay for rent or housing off base. Pay for utilities, trash pickup, water usage etc... This is what BAH is designed for. It increases as the size of your family grows to accomodate for the more people in your family. The nice part is that living in the barracks, though there are inconveniences (inspections and so on) everything is paid for. Utilities are paid, no fees for water, trash etc... Though I do understand the plight you are making. The big picture is this. The element of freedom or free time away from the Army does not happen when you are living in the barracks. This was the same even back in my olden days if you will. LOL.
I got out of the Army as a Sergeant First Class. I always looked to make it a point to take care of all my soldiers day in and day out. We as NCO's made it a point to know our soldiers, the financial status and we were in their business only to see that they were being taken care of. I still am shocked that many locations no longer have a supply Sgt. where supplies can be drawn for the general maintenance and cleaning of the barracks for single soldiers. If they Army is going to continue to do barracks inspections to see that you maintain their facilities (your home if you will), they should still provide you the materials to do so. I see your frustration and I currently have a son serving at Ft. Bliss with the Combat Aviation Bde and he expresses his concerns as well.
Granted as an old school NCO, I see living in a barracks as a benefit for the most part, I agree with much of your post. I as a former NCO, look for the positive in as much as I can. Picking up your own bucket, mop and misc. cleaning supplies can be done very inexpensively. You can make the most of your money. In many ways, I am jealous that many get BAH now days, I wish we had that extra fund back in the day. It is what it is and times have certainly changed.
I agree that there is no reason that units could do away with the barracks inspections since they do not conduct inspections of married couples homes. I suppose the difference is that the majority of single soldiers will not clean or maintain the facility and therefore the barracks can then be unsightly and not represent all a soldier should be. The same can be said for married couples as well. I am sure many do not clean their homes well and they are not subject to inspections. So, I can see your point. There is no doubt, as a single soldier you are required to do more work than the married soldiers and are subject to very little free time with in your barracks.
My son moved into the SSB (single soldiers barracks) and had to clean his room when he moved into it, simply because the soldier before was not held to a standard. He cleaned it very well and then had to move to another room. He was expected to clean that room and pass an inspection of the room before he could clear that room in the barracks. Not much consistency. Someone, an NCO dropped the ball and failed to do their job as an NCO. Lead the way, or as we used to say lead, follow or get the F*** out of the way. I do agree that a soldier married or not should maintain a clean and orderly barracks/home. Its the army...not a college dorm. LOL
I recall being in NCOES (BNCOC & ANCOC) schools and being required to even as a SSG/SFC to maintain and pass room inspections so somethings never change. Looking at a big picture, I was also in as a married soldier as well. We didn't have anyone within the chain of command inspect our home. The only time it was required was upon ETS or PCS moves to clear housing. This was not done by the chain of command either.
As a Senior NCO, I would still feel an obligation to make sure my soldiers are well taken care of and give them as much latitude as the Army would allow me to. It is the Military and a job so the best I can say is keep on soldiering. Make the best of your career in the Army. If it gets to a point where it is no longer for you, you will be forwarded the option to ETS at some point. Take your experiences, learn from them and be the soldier you signed on to be. Lead from the front and carry the guidon high for all to see. God speed my brother.
SFC(R) T Livengood

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 4:00 PM

2017-04-27T16:00:43-04:00

For the washer and dryer part, it's against army policy for married soldiers to use barracks washer and dryer. They should be forced to forfeit bah if caught. As I just got married after being in for 4 years I see the fence from both sides. While half of your arguement is right, the other half is you being greedy

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 11:10 PM

2017-04-27T23:10:01-04:00

Why is there so much complaining about what other people have vs what the complainer has?
Some great advice I recieved many years ago, "stay in your lane", "stay challenged and you will do well".
Yes barracks life can suck if all you can do is look at what others have and see it only in a negative light.
It can also be some of the best times you will have with your brothers (and sisters) in arms.
Lastly, you have your own room??? You only have to share the bathroom with ONE other Soldier???

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Jun 8 at 2017 6:52 PM

2017-06-08T18:52:50-04:00

Yeah soldier, you're bitching! I was single most of my military career, and loved it!...no drama of the family!

Response by SSG Dereck Davis made Jun 15 at 2017 2:02 PM

2017-06-15T14:02:09-04:00

It is all about money. There is a cost benefit ratio at work here. Does the military gain anything from putting lower enlisted out on the economy? Not so much. However, if all married soldiers were required to foot the bill for private lodging or be forced to live on post, retention numbers would drop low enough that the cost of attrition would out weigh the cost of housing. Think of the cost per year to train an E-7 averaged out over 10-15 years. Would they stay or take their training to the civilian market without that $2k housing stipend? The Army thinks so. In the end it is all about costs and your feelings don't matter. Welcome to the Army.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Jun 16 at 2017 9:43 PM

2017-06-16T21:43:06-04:00

Wow. First I gotta say that I am feeling really old after reading a lot of these posts!!! I got out in '92. I was in the Marine Corps and stationed at Camp Pendleton. Based on one comment I saw, just because someone has a college degree doesn't mean they can always be an officer and be in the MOS they would like to be. I would say about 40% of my unit had at least a bachelors degree and maybe 25% with a masters. So the fact that this soldier has a degree and is a 27 year old E-4 I think is kind of commendable. I have no idea how he lived in college, but a vast majority live in the dorms. Basically the barracks. That being said, it sounds as though he feels he has already "put in his due". Unfortunately for him, in this instance it just doesn't count. He does have to suck it up for now. As an E-3, I shared a 20 x 20 room with 1 bath with 3 other Marines and we were glad we did not have to live in the squad bays. No kitchen. Obviously no cable, phone (including cell) and no internet. We made our way to the phone banks. Basically 40 pay phones under what looked like an overgrown bus stop. No chairs there either. Privacy was most definitely an issue. Lets just say I saw more of my roommates than I ever cared too and vice versa I'm sure. As far as the pay/benefits goes, unfortunately, that also falls under suck it up. However, there are some things that he is absolutely correct on. Multiple policies do nothing but break down unit cohesion and, although I would not exactly use the word discrimination, favoritism never has a place in any unit or family for that matter either. That is definitely a leadership issue, or rather a lack of leadership issue. I would just hope he uses it as an example of how he won't treat those troops under him. The post that someone wrote about the roaches, I don't think so. It would have taken me about a day to request mast and get that issue dealt with in short order. I would have busted out my 782 gear and bunked it under the stars before I would have stayed in there. That falls under the heading of just not taking care of the troops. Totally inexcusable. I did have some friends that did get an apartment out in town on their own dime and came back on field night to clean. They complained that they shouldn't have to, but were quickly shot down because the Marine Corps still had to provide the space for them, they couldn't put other Marines there so they lost that one. But they still did things like bring their laundry back to the barracks to save a buck, so it wasn't too bad for them. It use to be that junior enlisted would not be granted permission to get married for all sorts of reasons. The biggest one at Camp Pendleton was that even with all the "benefits" that married troops get, almost 80% of the married Marines E-4 and below actually qualified for food stamps. So, I do not believe the argument that married troops make so much more money, I believe that after several decades they may just now be receiving a "living wage". Personally I do not like the argument that getting married is a choice that is made so troops can have additional benefits. If that were really true, there simply would not be the very high divorce rate in the military. For the single Marines that pulled holiday duty for their married peers, I never saw one single Marine that wasn't invited to someone's home for a holiday meal or a party paid for by the married Marines for the entire unit before or after the holiday. Now, I do realize that I may have been in a close knit unit, but I doubt it was all that unique with other units or service branches for that matter. The military is not a job. It is a way of life and not everyone can do it. That's why enlisted troops don't sign 20 year contracts. Also, there is no way the military could put up everyone in off base housing. Even if there were tons of money to do this, it simply is not practical, and I think everyone here knows the reasons why. Can things be better? Of coarse they can. But from what I have read here, it sounds as though they are better. Is change slow? Sure it is. It is the government after all. If you think it should be faster, try changing something about yourself first just to see how long it really takes you. Then make that ten fold for the government.

Response by SPC Ann T. made Jul 3 at 2017 9:40 AM

2017-07-03T09:40:55-04:00

In 1997, I was married, and on an unaccompanied overseas tour in Germany. The barracks I lived in that year was partially condemned... That is, some rooms were unsafe and off limits. I had a hole in my floor that I had to find an intact floor tile (12x12) for, and then put a mini-fridge on top of to keep the rats from coming up from the basement. It was a n old German WWI (Yes, ONE) barracks that had been repurposed for us. We had twelve rooms to a floor, some with one, some with two, some with four persons. Latrines and showers were communal and centralized, females first floor, males second floor. There was a communal dayroom, no individual kitchens. In the dayroom was a microwave and a cooktop, and a bunch of tables and chairs and a ratty sofa. I wish to God I had had a nice setup like you are discussing. Because my family was still stateside, I got housing allowance for them at a reduced rate. Whatever they thought that rathole they put me in was worth, it was too much. Eventually it was all renovated, and it was nicer. But still not as nice as you are talking. Housing wasn't much better, and I know because I changed my tour the next year. Still pretty ratty, but since renovations were in the cards and the housing was being emptied, we could pretty much paint and renovate all we wanted, unlike the barracks where we couldn't really do anything. This said, I see it a little differently. The only significant discrimination I found was not in money. It was in "Oh S**t details." They could come get soldiers out of the barracks like a ready-made pool of labor. That's discriminatory between those in barracks and those not. As for the inspections: The unit signed for the barracks, while the post had responsibility for family housing. So the unit has to inspect the barracks, and post has to deal with family housing. . We did have representatives from Housing come around to check on some things, like trash removal, general cleanliness, clutter in stairwells, and so forth. My NCOs did come to my house about once a month, to ensure I wasn't living like a rat. They said they had to respect the family members because they couldn't inspect them like they would like to do the soldiers. I don't see the housing allowance as something I was owed, or a part of my pay. It was how the Army gave me peace of mind to be ready to go do my job wherever they sent me, knowing my family would have a decent place for the time I was gone. If I hadn't had the family, my need for such would be lessened. Single soldiers sometimes gave up their barracks rooms, and got an apartment off-post with a couple of other single soldiers, or a significant other. They got a housing allowance, and they gave up their meal cards and were given their chow allowance. If you want to do that, go ahead. You are plenty old enough, and I think it was E3 and above that were authorized to do that. Now, this was in Germany twenty years ago, but still.... If you have an off-post apartment, the only inspection will be for your unit to make sure you are not living in a trash heap, or Health and Welfare. They are signed for you, they are responsible for you. That's the contract. So make some changes if you want to. Otherwise, get out. There's always something to be done.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2017 9:12 PM

2017-09-18T21:12:54-04:00

You are totally unaware of the fact that you CAN appeal for BAH to live off post!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2017 3:07 PM

2017-09-19T15:07:01-04:00

The worst is divorced soldiers without custody of their kids. "Single soldiers" who hive up half their pay to child support and don't have their kids enough to "rate" bah. It's a joke. I'm supposed to get my 2 kids for the summer. How am I supposed to afford childcare and a hotel for those 2 months on the $800 a month I get to keep after child support. What a joke. I won't be re-enlisting unless they fix it (and they won't, sorry to burst anyone's bubble).

Response by SSG Steven Mangus made Sep 19 at 2017 7:31 PM

2017-09-19T19:31:11-04:00

Sounds like someone is expressing their feelings or holding up a stress card. Got news for you, that is the way the Army does business with single soldiers E-4 and below, unless there is a overcrowding in the barracks. Age and degree have nothing to do with where you live, pay grade is all that matters. Being a married soldier is not always the better way to go. The extra money (BAH) goes to rent either on and off post and separate rations is actually for the entitled soldier to eat in the DFAC. BLUF: this is more about the financial aspect vs living area and the units I was assigned to did not play favoritism to married soldiers, we all embraced the suck together..single and married.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Sep 19 at 2017 9:31 PM

2017-09-19T21:31:15-04:00

Do you want some cheese and crackers with you Whine? Suck it up there Soldier...you could have your butt in Iraq or Afghan in 130 degree heat, wearing 60 pounds of battle rattle, with no shower, eating MRE's, and sleeping with a whole bunch of folks. Single Soldiers never had it so good.......

Response by SPC Craig Brickel made Sep 20 at 2017 1:43 PM

2017-09-20T13:43:52-04:00

Your post is true, it's not fair. Unfortunately life is not fair. What I wouldn't give to be back in the barracks eating in the dining hall. I think I'll just suffer with Lobster meat tonight. Pay day for me is just a few days away we should have food for another week, and I will have $25 to pay for my son's school computer.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 2:19 PM

2017-09-20T14:19:55-04:00

There's no logical way to argue with this. It sucks, man. Your only COA (provided you don't actually want to be in a committed domestic partnership just yet) is illegal by the UCMJ.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 5:01 PM

2017-09-20T17:01:04-04:00

For the last 6 months or so of my contract, I was e-5. 2 months after picking up I made the housing cutoff and got to move off post. And I'll tell you right now, there was a vast difference in pay that very nearly changed my mind on reenlistment. Single soldiers living in the barracks are pretty much ripped off pay wise. For 400 dollars civilian side I saw amenities that my entire bah in the barracks went to. I didn't mind one bit making extra money for driving to work a little earlier and showering in the motor pool.
What I'm saying is, the cost of living in the barracks isn't worth losing all bah. That cost could be made up for by an extra 200-400 a month. Not full bah but enough to justify.

Response by SFC Don Olds made Sep 20 at 2017 5:04 PM

2017-09-20T17:04:29-04:00

Been there, a long standing policy that got under my skin as a Soldier. Suck it up Buttercup.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made Sep 20 at 2017 5:42 PM

2017-09-20T17:42:55-04:00

If I don't seem sympathetic, it's because what you've described is paradise compared to how we lived. This is one of the barracks we had in Korea in the 60s. The partitions were as close as it came to privacy, the toilets and showers were in another building down the hill from us, and this was one of the better hooches.

I would also note that for an EM living in the barracks, your pay is almost entirely what we call "discretionary income," that is, money you can spend as you see fit. Very few young people in civilian life have more than a couple hundred dollars a month of discretionary income, as the rest all goes to rent, utilities, food, clothing, transportation and related expenses.

You have the ability to amass quite a nest egg while in the service if you choose to do so. In the early 70s, I knew a Master Sergeant who had never married, lived in the barracks and spent very little of his money. Instead, he'd invested it in stocks and bonds and let it grow. When he retired after 20 years at age 38, he was worth just over a million dollars and could now spend the rest of his life enjoying himself. It's called delayed gratification, and is a rare ability these days. With the much higher pay scales now, a soldier could do the same thing while still enjoying creature comforts if he has a little forethought and planning ability.

Response by SGT Eric Forrest made Sep 20 at 2017 5:45 PM

2017-09-20T17:45:02-04:00

Totally true... that's why infantryman regularly have contract weddings with strippers. They get a dependant card you get BAQ

Response by 1SG Raymond Woothtakewahbitty made Sep 20 at 2017 5:47 PM

2017-09-20T17:47:34-04:00

The simple fix is to head down to Cheatas or the Golden Dragon or whatever your local spot is called and get you a spouse, then you can enjoy all the luxuries that the rest of us have

Response by SFC Scotty Anderson made Sep 20 at 2017 5:51 PM

2017-09-20T17:51:31-04:00

Wow..... blue falcon, really....

Response by CPL Brandon Kling made Sep 20 at 2017 5:57 PM

2017-09-20T17:57:49-04:00

As someone who was once in a similar situation (being mid 20s versus 18/19), I can agree with you somewhat. While I was able to eutilize the DFAC at two of my duty stations, my third one didn't work out quite so well. After much prodding, I was able to get my meal deductions stopped. I ended up saving about $200 By buying groceries and preparing my own meals (my barracks at the time had a kitchenette with full size fridge, stove, and oven).

It was denigrating to be subject to room inspections, but what I found easier was to keep my room to a standard, to where making it inspection ready required maybe 45 minutes of work.

Do I think that the blanket policy of single E5 and below Soldiers must be in the barracks needs to go? Certainly. When you have someone who is mid 20s or older, who has lived on his or her own in the past, why treat them like children?

Response by SPC Christopher McMahon made Sep 20 at 2017 6:14 PM

2017-09-20T18:14:24-04:00

You make some good points. When I was stationed in Bamberg, Germany, we lived in old World War II barracks. In some of the rooms, there were as many as five living there. Now, as you rose in rank, there were also two man rooms if you were lucky to be assigned (I eventually was.) We also had constant inspections that married guys didn't have to deal with. I don't know what barracks look like nowadays, I was in a long time ago. 1987-1992. But I do understand what you're saying.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 7:09 PM

2017-09-20T19:09:30-04:00

This is a tough one. There is definitely a presumption of immaturity issue at play here. It's 2017 and, at least in the Army, waiting to marry can actually be indicative of a more mature Soldier. Personally I would like to see an age cap at 21 where any servicemember can opt for BAS/BAH in lieu of 1984 treatment. Military housing/sustinence bears a striking resemblance to conservative university policies. At my university, we had to live on campus in dorms and have a meal plan for our freshman and sophomore years, unless you were over 21 years of age. There was a presumption of immaturity, and this policy was meant to produce a more disciplined student body during a time of life when a student was most likely to fail due to lacking a safety net, both financial and mental. The military seems to have the same intent with the Barracks/DFAC policy. However, there simply is no rationalizing a 26-year old SGT having to live in a barracks while a 22-year old 2LT gets BAH/BAS. Soldiers with dependents have more costs, many really do need that extra cash. Still, the current policy pretty clear results in unequal compensation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 7:44 PM

2017-09-20T19:44:23-04:00

Omg snowflake dont like it get out. Oh no you have 2 seperate rooms and a common area.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 7:47 PM

2017-09-20T19:47:41-04:00

Expected to work more. I dont ever remember hearing anyone ever say hey guys send the married soldiers to chow while barracks personal stay and work.

Response by CPL Frederick Jennings made Sep 20 at 2017 7:49 PM

2017-09-20T19:49:28-04:00

I was a single soldier for a time, and a married soldier for a time. A good even split. Here is my point of view for you. While single, i enjoyed it, i really did. I had my room, my space, etc. So i kept it tidy, because inspections didnt always go down when i was there and present. A few commanders would disagree as they got to see the all of me. A fridge stocked with beer and i think a bottle of ketchup and some eggs. I didnt think about the pay cause in all honesty, i had it made. Sure i got share cleaning details, a laundry room, etc., but whatever. It wasnt hard for me to do what i needed to do to maintain that standard. Barracks watch? You mean catching up on a TV series! Hell, i even used that time for homework, and even some gaming. Walk the building, back at it. Some officer walks in, salute, back at it. Clean the common area. And back at it. You get the point. If anything, that was a night i saved money.

Now lets take it to the married side. I got denied off base living, and i was dual military. Double screwed. Only one collects the BAH really. On base housing was also privatized, so they took all of the BAH and extra for electricity. Now im making less than i did in the barracks. Your substance allowance doesnt cover crap! Making even less now. By the end of the day, it paid to be single. So, now i have to keep my house clean, because their are on base housing inspections, regardless of you or anyone else being home. Whatever, too easy...wait kids and dual military, scratch that it was horrid! Keep it going, some soldiers in the barracks didnt want to keep the barracks clean, and now all of a sudden all the married golks are stuck at the barracks helping to clean it. I still have my house to clean! Paid to be single. But wait, there is more! I have to do barracks duty. Now im not talking battalion staff duty, i have to watch your barracks. Thats time from me and my family. That isnt fair.....paid to be single. All new furniture for the barracks, married soldiers have to help assemble. Single soldiers in the barracks have to go clean real quick for a surprise inspection, and get to stay there to wait for inspection doing nothing but watching tv, and playing games...married soldiers have to stick around and do nothing while that goes on. Paid to be single.

My experience was this, it paid to be single. Trust me. You always see the grass as being greener over there, when in fact, its not. Now experiences will vary, but the truth is, in the end, it sucks to be married and single equally. Trust me, that $1000 a month BAH means nothing. In a lot of cases, the economy around you matches to meet your BAH cause they can and cause they know what you make before you do. Oh yeah, and you dont pay for electricity, and in the kansas summer, thays all thats running. Gotta live the $200 a month electricity bill that isnt covered by BAH.

Response by PO1 Tom Walker made Sep 20 at 2017 8:18 PM

2017-09-20T20:18:48-04:00

This is pure bull shit! Nobody twisted your arm cry baby! If you caint handle it get out!

Response by 1SG Richard Trundy made Sep 20 at 2017 8:45 PM

2017-09-20T20:45:43-04:00

This is an age old argument. What I will say is your Lt is a Dick and needs to refer to the NCO for handling the issue. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the lieutenant doesn't have the right to come in and check out facility when checking on the standards of a soldiers, but to me that's a little Overkill. this 1SG would have had you put your feet up on the end of your bunk and knockout 25 push-ups and call it a day While saying "Don't let it happen again, now lets move on to Hip Pocket Training"

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 9:23 PM

2017-09-20T21:23:43-04:00

After reading all of this I realize how much I love my civilian life. I served active and in the guard. My wife and I both have well paying jobs, a nice residence, and all of our own time. Personally I think the best thing I did was leave active for the guard. I was able to establish a decent civilian career have plenty of family time and still serve my country in the military. I only decided not to enlist for a 4th time after the birth of our 2nd child. I didn't want to miss any part of my kids growing up due to obligitions of the military. It has been 2 years and I can't say I miss it that much. My beard is to my chest and I have gained 20 lbs but oh well I do what I want now.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 9:25 PM

2017-09-20T21:25:24-04:00

I remember coming in as a single airman to a 4 person room and a bathroom separating it from the other 4 person room. 1+1 housing is the discription you are giving. If your sharing individual is a nasty miscreant, I'm very sorry. Try living with 3 others who may or may not decide to shower or wash clothes, be an unforgiving slut trying to get knocked up and deal with split shifts all at one time. Then you might have something to really whine about.

Response by MAJ Daniel Flynn made Sep 20 at 2017 9:31 PM

2017-09-20T21:31:00-04:00

Yup, it is what it is.

Response by PFC Phillip McKinney made Sep 20 at 2017 9:46 PM

2017-09-20T21:46:06-04:00

Wow, maybe the next time yinz look at your LES, notice that you are getting the same BAH and BAS. It just gets auto deducted for your meal card and Barracks. A married Marine leaving on base gets all their BAH taken if they leave on town they pay less and bank the rest. If both husband and wife serve both their BAH goes to base housing. I know from experience. We lived in old Midway on Lejeune in a 4 room flat that was falling apart and at that time in 06 that was about 1800 a month. We found a place in Maysville for 600 a month on an acre and banked it all. But every Thursday for field day we had to be in formation with the single Marines and police call while some barracks Sgt dumped his trash off the 3rd deck cat walk and laughed. Plus stand barracks duty even though we didn't live there and had to deal with drunken Jack asses who would shit all through their room. Complain about room size and shit. Our barracks marines slept 4 per room with a shared bathroom and no kitchen any where near the barracks with no hot plates allowed. All I have to say is go to the convenience store buy a pack of straws and suck it the fuck up buttercup.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 9:52 PM

2017-09-20T21:52:06-04:00

Bro, have you ever dealt with Soldiers and there inability to handle their own finances? Too, you joined the Army. Deal with it or go get married.

Response by SSgt William Mavis made Sep 20 at 2017 10:05 PM

2017-09-20T22:05:42-04:00

wow,you get that sweet lil apartment i got a bed in a Quonset hut suck it up Shirley

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 10:08 PM

2017-09-20T22:08:37-04:00

I am not sure. I am an E-5 promotable who is 42 years old being made to live in the barracks with a bunch of 18 year olds because I am not married. To be honest it sucks total ass. There should be some sort of cut off for age where you no longer have to stay in the barracks past a certain age cutoff. I mean I am 42 and fully capable of feeding myself and paying bills but I am made to have a meal card and stay in regular old barracks. It definitely doesn't help your social life either.

Response by SSgt William Mavis made Sep 20 at 2017 10:10 PM

2017-09-20T22:10:46-04:00

wah wah go join the cub scouts or grow a pair

Response by CPL David Thompson made Sep 20 at 2017 10:15 PM

2017-09-20T22:15:47-04:00

I don't see this guy being Infantry for some reason.

Response by SPC Tony Pacheco made Sep 20 at 2017 10:38 PM

2017-09-20T22:38:42-04:00

What the hell were you expecting, a stay at the Holton? 5 star Luxury accommodations? You aren't paying anything out of pocket! Believe me, it's not exactly enough to have a nice place for your family live. Military towns have much higher rent for the type of housing available than other comparable areas. Why, because they have a captive population! I spent more for a smaller dwelling off base than I did in a major city before joining. I paid it though! So that my wife didn't have to live in the damn Ghetto. As for BAS, trust me it want enough to pay for all the food you'd need to be able to work the 16 plus hours we'd have to work most days. Now, if I remember correctly (I've been out a while) we were required to make sure barracks soldiers ate! It was not required for us, since we got BAS. There is absolutely no reason for you to be complaining about this. If I lived in the barracks, I'd have gotten out of the army f---ing rich! I would see most single soldiers spending there money on all kinds of useless crap, then complain about not affording things. They go jump on that star card and run that bad boy up, just to live barracks fabulous! Stop your damn complaining and either advance to a position that you can get off post housing or go find you a nice young lady at the club who is willing to be your dependa. Trust me, they'll be no shortage of them coming out of the woodwork. Or hell, find you a nice young man willing to do the same (if that's what your into) while you still can. Either way, stop crying and fix it!

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Sep 20 at 2017 10:40 PM

2017-09-20T22:40:39-04:00

I spent a large portion of my 21yrs as a single soldier uving in the barracks and I have to say your gripes have merit. Expecially the barracks inspections. I was an E6 and was required to stand room inspections with full TA-50 layout on my bunk all the while my married Soldiers in my section was not required to go thru the room inspection. Also the DFAC has been a problem that no one is willing to resolve. Soldires on meal card can file for missed meals but will only get 65% of the sperate rations cost while married soldiers get 100% as they receive separate rations.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 11:05 PM

2017-09-20T23:05:04-04:00

Why are you a 27 year old college graduate thats recently enlisted into the army? Why don't you have another job that makes more money? Was it because you wanted to serve? If that is true then you know that we operate on a budget and it is more cost efficient to put single soldiers into a barracks room and you shouldn't mind because you are here to serve. If that's not true then you joined the Army for some type of benefit it would provide you. My suggestion is to stop bitching, take that benefit you've been provided, make SSG or get married.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 11:08 PM

2017-09-20T23:08:27-04:00

Navy does not have all of these things. With living single sailors under e5 can route a request to get a place out in town and get bah. E5 and higher cannot stay in the barracks and will get bah to go in town. Married people in the navy still get all of their bas taken away bc they have the opportunity to eat on the ship. If we leave before supper it still comes out of our pay. Married people still have to park in the same area and the only separate lots or areas are for chiefs and officers. Sounds like they need to get more on this program.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 11:36 PM

2017-09-20T23:36:51-04:00

You should see how single Marine living conditions are before you complain about the single soldier life. Haha

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 11:48 PM

2017-09-20T23:48:04-04:00

So you have a degree but came in as enlisted.... I love when soldiers do that and then complain they get told what to do by the "non educated" NCO.

A few points I will point out, since I am one of those evil married soldiers living off post.

The house is owned by myself, my wife and the bank, not the army, tell me you're just going to do a walk through, expect a closed door and a get the hell off of my property when you show up. Again the army does not own my house unlike the b's. Bas only covers myself and my meals not my family's, and like single soldiers that gets taken when we go to the field etc.
Blame your battle buddies for the inspections of your room and don't use your "I'm college educated 27yo" argument. Last week on cq I had to key into a room and pick up a 35yo Spc that was passed out in the middle of the common area, covered in his own vomit and drunk out of his mind at 2100, his room was a disaster and a call was made to his first line about his condition and the room. If soldiers did not do things like hide hookers in the closet, grow weed under the desk, live like pigs, fix transmissions in the bath tub or decide to try and cook meth, NCO's would not have to be in their ass all the time.

Response by SPC Rebecca Gassaway made Sep 21 at 2017 12:45 AM

2017-09-21T00:45:19-04:00

I can say I disagree. I was a married soldier and had to go clean barracks of single soldiers. Clean their bathrooms, etc. Nobody came to clean my house, I still maintained my own house to military standards. But I found it unfair foratried people in my until to make us pick up and clean after other people. The single soldiers in my unit ended up never cleaning after themselves cause they said they got use to others cleaning after them. But that is my opinion

Response by SPC David Willis made Sep 21 at 2017 12:51 AM

2017-09-21T00:51:02-04:00

I think some of y'all are missing the point. Unless you marry a dependa you are way, way better off as a married soldier. Dual incomes are a given but the military gives bah (roughly 1000/mo) based on the assumption that most mortgages or rent for a 2 bed 2 bath are around 1000 a mo. Factor in the second income and that's 500 bucks more married folks make in pocket cash per month. That's a car payment and cellphone bill worth of extra cash. Sure that may have to go towards kids but probably only half of young soldiers have kids. In terms of moral and unit readiness, you can't say enough about how much happier you are when you get home and can live how you want rather than walk upstairs and stare at your room mates ass and the cinder block walls. Also as a unit commander I would think I'd rather have my guys off base in their own home rather than having barracks parties tearing through several cases of beer because there is literally little else to do. Living off base you're exempt from hey you details, room inspections, and (this happened to me) drunk ncos coming in to fuck with new privates on the weekend. All these differences are afforded to some young soldiers because they fell in love with the first piece of ads they found and thought it would last forever.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 1:21 AM

2017-09-21T01:21:39-04:00

100% agree. I’ve been saying this for years. I have soldiers E4 and below making twice as much as me. They move off post and rent out a cheap place and pocket the remaining BAH. Their spouses work so it’s not like they are shelling out half their paycheck to them. i have to get my room inspected on a regular basis as a damn Sergeant. Don’t get me started on health and welfares lmao.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 2:48 AM

2017-09-21T02:48:24-04:00

As far as meals, a Dfac is supposed to be ran like a restraunt. If you don't eat there they don't get paid for that meal. If no one eats there they will have a change of management or possibly shut down. Then you get your bas, if there's no Dfac. If their food isn't good or something is wrong make sure they realize it. I've been to some good DFACs that I was happy to pay $4 for a meal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 5:14 AM

2017-09-21T05:14:54-04:00

As a former section chief we had off post housing inspections as well as those who lived in post housing. We did have to give at least a full days notice and ensure the Soldier was ok with the inspection. If the Soldier was not home then it was up to the spouse if the inspection was permitted. If your unit isn't doing them then that is a unit issue. Trust me I feel your pain with those inspections too. We did them at least once a week on the barracks and a health and welfare check once a month. That helped keep underage drinking down.

Response by SPC Keith Starr made Sep 21 at 2017 6:12 AM

2017-09-21T06:12:01-04:00

The reason the army likes married soldiers more then single is that they half to think before he/she speaks or acts cause they have spouses and kids to support. If a leader is being a dumbass or is incredibly incompetent a single soldier is more likely to tell him so or report it. they only half to worry about themselves. A married soldier has other concerns like keeping a roof over their families head or food on the table or paying the wife's credit cards off she ran up on his last deployment. With those things married soldiers are less likely to rock the boat. I'll admit it I was a single soldier the hole time I was in and I got busted down for sticking my neck out and putting my balls on the line. C of C was wrong I had one commander that held a grudge I was right when I did it but they found other ways to get me. like all chain of command they come and go all you got to do is out last them or when you get a bad one pcs. I was in an mos that was hard to come by and I was a stop loss so no matter what I couldn't escape my unit. So I had to make the best of it. It is bullshit that the army shows favor to married over single idk why dependants are expensive and cause problems. An all single military is cheaper and single soldiers don't half to worry about crap like divorce Or my wife ran off with jodi's dog and the flea circus. Another thing why are you collecting bah in the barracks? We never did and never got billed for living in them I collected bas cause I worked long hours all the time and never made it to the chow hall. What I got from that I could cook and feed the hole barracks stack I was awesome with crockpot cooking. Another thing about chow halls you do have a say in the via the first sergeant that's one of the ways I got in trouble I complained about how they could have soul food every Wensday but not have corn beef and cabbage on st Patrick's day one a year. I files an actual complain with the IG and it went too core oops.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 8:07 AM

2017-09-21T08:07:44-04:00

I hear you. I spent six years in the barracks and hated every minute of it. When I was a 26 year-old single E-5P, I managed to hook myself up with BAH. I got a really, really nice two bedroom apartment (I mean NICE - hardwood flooring, granite countertops, my own laundry, and a master bath and closet that were both the same size as my barracks room). It was expensive and I was spending money on absolutely whatever I wanted but I was still saving $500-700 every month. I didn't know what to do with all my extra money. I made an absolute killing simply because I received BAH/BAS.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 8:11 AM

2017-09-21T08:11:16-04:00

Like someone posted below, going the money route to make your point isnt the gripe to make.

I am a GySgt (E7) in the Marines. I would be happy to chat with you about the finance situation with regards to barracks living vs town living. Hit me up.

At the end of the day, just remember, there is a reason for everything and sometimes it all boils down to the "10%" that jacked it up for everyone else.

Response by 1SG Gary Bacon made Sep 21 at 2017 9:08 AM

2017-09-21T09:08:09-04:00

Todays military is so much better than yesterdays, and continues to get even better. Our barracks were 2 man rooms. They had 2racks, 2desk and 2 chairs. No kitchen, microwave and just a small fridge. Two rooms shared a latrine. Got married and there was no base housing so I used my 225 bah for tiny run down single wide mobile home. Money was so short, a trip with my wife once a month to McDonald's was fate night. Had no TV either. It was goodtimes though and as my dad would say.... Helps build character. Things get better as our careers progress so hang in their and hold on for the ride , it's a wild one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 9:18 AM

2017-09-21T09:18:04-04:00

Get promoted, get married, get a roomate(s) and live off post. We all have had to deal with this. Those who were single at the time. It's called paying your dues.Just because you're a college graduate doesn't mean you have special rights. You chose your path to come in enlisted. You had an opportunity to do ROTC. Ijs. So stop your complaining and suck it up.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 9:18 AM

2017-09-21T09:18:16-04:00

I completely agree. I too was a college graduate E4 single soldier "enjoying" barracks life. Hell, I owned a house as a civilian that I had to sell when I joined the Army but now had to live with 17 and 18 year olds in the barracks at 23-30 years of age and attend briefings every week on how not to get an STD and how to balance a checkbook. Then I commissioned and got married. But I remember there was a study done about 11 or so years ago where researchers factored in the cost of maintaining DFACs, barracks facilities, and other costs to the military for barracks living and compared it to the costs of if we just gave everyone their BAH. The difference was eye opening. The military would save a ton of money if they just gave the option to all single soldiers to either receive BAH or live in the barracks. Back then I thought real change was coming but it quietly just kind of disappeared. I suspect there's that cultural bias here but I remember an NCO PD with CSM Ciatola at 3 corps at the time where someone asked that question and he said that the experiences and lessons learned from living with your peers is immeasurable and can't be quantified in that study. I wasn't a fan of that answer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 10:43 AM

2017-09-21T10:43:54-04:00

It seems that your college degree has failed you, or you were to busy complaining to notice the errors in your post.

Sure, when I was active I was at times jealous of the "married" soldiers. However, the the most part, I loved it.
When you are single and "off duty" you don't have a care in the world. No spouse or kids to care for or to take up your time.

There are trade offs either way.

Enjoy where you are right now and make the best of it. When, if you should, reach the higher ranks, you can affect a change.

Until then, pull out your "stress card".
(sarcasism)

SMH

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 12:16 PM

2017-09-21T12:16:10-04:00

You bring up some valid points, and some of it you're just straight whining. The barracks are a hell of a lot better than what they used to be, you have a kitchen, that's nice. The DFAC thing is not ideal, it truly isn't, but it's the best solution to feed all of the meal card holders. BOSS has actually tried at the annual army counsil to get DFACs removed from units that have kitchens so that the soldiers there can use BAS to make their own food. The problem with that is, once it's gone, you will never get it back, if that grass wasn't really greener, you guys would be out of luck. The room inspections, unfortunately, you just need to know what whoever is inspecting your room expects, and I highly doubt you will find a leader that does not expect you to make your bed every morning. I do believe however that you should be able to look in one SOP and know what is and is not allowed in your room.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 12:38 PM

2017-09-21T12:38:59-04:00

In some Army posts SGTs and above are allowed to leave the barracks, in some others SSGs and above only. The army is not dumb, age is not a factor, education is not a factor. They want to make sure you don't do anything stupid leaving alone, once you reach a rank you have been in the army long enough to know what to do or what not, how to maintain your personal space and what is expected from you, just think about all the grown up joes that as a leader you may have inspected. And by the way, married people can have their houses inspected by their CoC if there are signs of poor maintance of quarters, living conditions or almost anything. You can have permission from the SM and if not with a 24h notice you can show up with housing authorities (wich is the worst option if SM is living like a pig). So no, married people don't have more rights or freedom.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 2:11 PM

2017-09-21T14:11:10-04:00

Oh shut it. Stop complaining. You’re right, just a single Soldier bitching and complaining.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Sep 21 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-09-21T15:19:55-04:00

Hey Tinkerbell, make your 5 and get your ass out of the barracks. End of your issue, end of your bitching

Response by FN Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 3:24 PM

2017-09-21T15:24:40-04:00

Good thing those days are over. Equips DD-214 blanket.

Response by TSgt Thomas Franks made Sep 21 at 2017 3:56 PM

2017-09-21T15:56:03-04:00

Read through several post's. As a retired Air Force member I started out in the barracks/dorms as well. in 1988 we had to share a room with another individual and share a bathroom with two more. Use of barracks/dorms for single members was based on occupancy rate. If the rates were above 95% the higher ranking E-4's had an option to live in local community. I lived in barracks/dorms my first four years. When our occupancy was above 95% they gave us the option to move out. Guess what, I did. As for missing meals when on meal card I missed several. I just sucked it up and went to food court or downtown to grab something. When I moved to my own apartment I had to provide all for myself. As for room inspections, yeah I survived through them and pressed on, even when many would fail. All of us had to be in Service Dress outside our rooms at 0700 on a Saturday.

Later in my career (about 14 years) I did get married and start a family. Fortunately I owned the home. But due to PCS move we sold it. At new location (2006) housing costs were about doubled. We had a choice of ONLY two homes in base housing. One was built in late 40s/early 50s and maybe 1,000 sq ft, another built in 70s with 1,500 sq ft. Not much of a choice. First 2 months we battled German cockroaches before housing office would do anything. We sprayed, used insect bombs, traps you name it nothing worked. After about a month of treatments they disappeared. During that time the fridge went out, hot water went out while I was TDY, air conditioning went out often as well.
Most individuals who have served have had it harder than you or I.
Now that I'm retired I can say is tough it out, get promoted and move out.

Or I can say buckle up buttercup, or hit the bricks.

Response by Sgt Mike Dargusch made Sep 21 at 2017 6:15 PM

2017-09-21T18:15:38-04:00

A leader ensures his people get fed. End of story. Leaders exist to serve those in their charge. You CAN make a difference by being that leader for your charges so that they will lead theirs by your example.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Sep 21 at 2017 6:34 PM

2017-09-21T18:34:36-04:00

First of all, I’m sure my opinion doesn’t mean a “hill of beans” because I am no longer on active duty or in the military. The whole time I served in the Army, I was a single soldier. Yes, IT sucked quite a bit being in the barracks (until I became an NCO and got my own room) because of all the “knuckleheads” that did EVERYTHING to annoy each other…and I’m sure you know what I mean. I didn’t get the privilege of moving off-post until I was a SSG. Living in military housing, either on-post or off-post is NO bed of roses either. The SAME “knuckleheads” that are in the barracks, also live in military housing. They too, do EVERYTHING to annoy each other…including their dependents! I’ve heard yelling, loud music, kids and teens being rude to adults, fighting, drugs…do I need to say more? I have no idea what the answer is, but either deal with it, or leave the military. I don’t recommend getting married just to move off-post…that just causes MORE drama! Again, I’m sure my opinion doesn’t mean a “hill of beans” because I am no longer on active duty or in the military.

Response by Cpl Jimmy Severson made Sep 21 at 2017 7:43 PM

2017-09-21T19:43:16-04:00

If he thinks he's got it tough now, let him try an open squad bay for a little while with 50 other guys. Do away with that semi-private kitchen and give him a wall locker and a footlocker. It could be worse.

Response by SFC Matthew Wagner made Sep 21 at 2017 7:50 PM

2017-09-21T19:50:54-04:00

"I have a degree and I'm older, I shouldn't have to live in the squalor of the barracks." (I'm paraphrasing).
That's where I started to not care. First, no one cares about your degree. It doesn't make you any better at your MOS. If you want more pay based solely on an arbitrary piece of paper and zero other salient facts, become a 2LT. The age point is even more stupid.

I get where you are coming from to a point. I was single for my first 10 years in the Army. Married Soldiers do less work and their wives have WAY too much influence over what happens in the unit.

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made Sep 21 at 2017 9:21 PM

2017-09-21T21:21:28-04:00

I agree 100% everything in the dorms just sucks, room inspection we I became a Senior NCO and had to conduct room insp with the First Shirt I about lost my nut when he started going though a female's dresser he has no business knowin what color underwear she has. Then the whole food meal card great eat ate the same place 3 times a day 365 a year. That card should be like a charge card money's put in it every month and you can eat where you want. Pay sure you get free room and food try to explain that to a car dealership when you try to get a loan they look at total pay and that's it. Dorms are getting better in my day it was 3 to a room no kitchen so they are trying. You just have to do your time and get enough rank to move out or get married. I feel your pain been there done that.

Response by TSgt Daniel Crocker made Sep 21 at 2017 10:06 PM

2017-09-21T22:06:41-04:00

You all do realize that all those regulations dictating what can and cannot be done in the barracks were put in place mostly because young soldiers, sailors, marines, and airman could not maintain government quarters to a reasonable level right? And as always, it's not all of them as a whole, for the most part room inspection have always go e reasonably well. The additional restrictions by command are generally put in place as more of a knee jerk reaction to first sergeants and commanders being briefed the same careless negligence being committed by a relative few. A lot if it stems frim poorly maintained common areas over individual rooms. Usually perpetrated by the same individuals that can't seem to maintain their own rooms and continue the pig pen behavior into those areas. If the common areas are a fan mess, it is assumed to be the entire barracks that is failing to live up to standards. Therefore, in order to correct the issue, stiffer policies are put into place while it is expected that those living in the barracks will police themselves. However, as is often the case, just as these harsher policies are to be lifted, some other jackass ruins it for all.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2017 10:36 PM

2017-09-21T22:36:14-04:00

I got married after 3 years in the Army. The problems really depend on the unit and its leadership. You can't change the admin bullshit (the BAH and BAS, more freedom in inspections), but I never saw married Soldiers getting off earlier than the single Soldiers.

The barracks are legitimately terrible though. My biggest complaint was the washers and dryers. It would often take 6 months just to have a broken washer or dryer checked by DPW, and then 3-4 months to get it fixed or replaced. I called DPW because my washer was leaking and they brought a new one the next day. No paperwork on my end, no work order, no waiting list, no prior inspection. My laundry machines care for 1 Soldier, his Spouse, and their son. 1 set of laundry machines in the barracks serviced at least a dozen Soldiers. Seems like it'd be more cost-efficient to care for the single Soldiers in the Bs. Even without problems involving equipment (such as electrical issues, plumbing back-ups, and broken washers), quality of life sucks in the barracks. A lot of Soldiers just wanna party EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and be loud as fuck. No one wants to snitch to CQ or SD about the noise, so they just grit their teeth and bear it. Rooms have little to no privacy, so if I wanted to beat my private in private, I had to use the bathroom (if it had a lock on it) and hope I wasn't being loud. Bringing hook-ups to the barracks is the worst. It's like parading meat in front of a bunch of hungry jackals.

The DFAC is terrible too. With the exception of the 7th Army NCOA DFAC and the Hohenfels Training Area DFAC, every one I've been too has been terrible. I'm pretty sure all Army meals come in bags, within boxes, and they just get boiled, like they think they're cooking sous-vide. The Army doesn't really work at repaying Soldiers who miss meals because of work requirements, the choices are often unhealthy as fuck, the lines are long, and the rules are Byzantine (like DFACs insisting you can't wear PTs, or you can't wear a tan or brown undershirt as a shirt in civilian attire. FUCK YOU GIMME MY FOOD). Not to mention every other post on USAWTFM is about terribly unsafe, undercooked, or spoiled food.

As a team leader, I tried my best to mitigate these issues. I invited my team over to lunch or dinner every now and then to get some home-cooked meals. I made my standards very clear on room inspections when they first came to my team, and I kept the rules within common-sense: no filth, no trash outta the trash can, clean your toilet, keep it neat. I didn't care about hospital corners or white-glove dusting, unless higher was inspecting, and I made that clear to them as soon as I knew about it. Shit, I got mad at other leaders making them take the trash out every single day. If a dude just threw an empty BK burger wrapper, 2 cotton swabs, and an empty can of Coke in the trash, it didn't really need to go out next day. That just eats into their budget. I volunteered to stay behind on over-lunch details (even as a SPC), so the single guys could actually get the chance to sit and eat.

Like everything else in the Army, it's all on your leadership. Some leaders mitigate the Suck, some dry-fuck you in the ass for shits and gigs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2017 12:05 AM

2017-09-22T00:05:49-04:00

There are LTs out there inspecting for hospital corners? Please don't do this... I mean, if your unit has published it as a standard, then I guess I could see that, but that LT better be making his own bed with hospital corners.

Response by SGT Beth Day made Sep 22 at 2017 1:34 AM

2017-09-22T01:34:45-04:00

This was a problem even back in my day, which I assure you was MANY days ago! :) Barracks life was so bad, I even took some friends up on an offer to move in with them. I just had to cook. Great deal, but I still had to stand barracks inspection.

No matter what you call it, at the end of the day, the married soldier gets more in his or her pocket at the end of the month.
But more than money, it's a quality of life issue. Barracks life lacks basic privacy, it's often substandard, it's overly restrictive and, it lends itself to the soldiers pulling that extra duty just because they are "handy" with "nothing better to do".

Is there a solution? I think maybe there is, at least partially. Instead of the military housing single soldiers in barracks, use apartments. Many buildings could be retrofitted and new ones built that way. Lower enlisted would have smaller "efficiency" apartments, NCOs larger ones. Soldiers could furnish and decorate them as they wish, with government furnishings or stuff they get on their own. Each unit would have at minimum a kitchenette and a 3/4 bath. I can see where inspections MIGHT be necessary, but they could be scheduled on a monthly basis so not nearly as intrusive. Restrictions concerning what is kept in the apartment could also be more along the line of what's legal (i.e. alcohol for 21 and older). Just a thought and I know it would cost some money, but I think it would go a long way toward helping the morale of the single soldier. It certainly would have helped mine.

Response by SPC Rachelle Shepherd made Sep 22 at 2017 1:54 AM

2017-09-22T01:54:16-04:00

I was a BOSS (Better Opportunities for Single Soldiers) rep for my company. When there was a fuel truck spill late one night on a weekend, they went pounding on all the doors of the single soldiers' barracks to help clean the spill. I sure hope they created a HAZMAT team since 1995/96, because the soldiers were NOT trained to deal with fuel spills and can suffer physically. I didn't open my door because I knew it was wrong; they didn't go knocking on married soldiers' doors! They all got certificates of appreciation. How lovely.

Response by Sgt Daniel Krenzke made Sep 22 at 2017 4:32 AM

2017-09-22T04:32:40-04:00

This is one of the reasons I left the Marine Corps.

Response by SGT Robert Johnson made Sep 22 at 2017 5:15 AM

2017-09-22T05:15:30-04:00

I'm a married solider and I agree with you, it's retarded for single soldiers to be paying 1100 dollars and giving 300 for BAS. I believe that the BAS needs to be an opt in and opt out at the commanders discretion (for the fact some people could not function if left to their own devices when it comes to living situations) and and an opt in opt out basis for BAS if you opt out you have to pay to eat at the dfac cause I know some soldiers who work to late to actually make it to the barracks
But that's just my opinion

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2017 6:37 AM

2017-09-22T06:37:12-04:00

Some commands allow barracks personnel to put the Army furniture in storage and purchase personal furnishings... but that varies with each command

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2017 8:23 AM

2017-09-22T08:23:03-04:00

Sounds like you don't belong in the ARMY. We don't play any of that in the Air Force and if you miss a meal you fill out a form and get paid for it. Regulations are black and white and if the person inspecting you is in the wrong you have rights. People make fun of the Air Force but it seems like the complaints are sometimes with things that make the branches different.

Response by Cpl David Salvati made Sep 22 at 2017 8:32 AM

2017-09-22T08:32:09-04:00

Wtf did you go enlisted with a BA? Honestly I think you are a fool and should stop whining like a bitch and deal with it. If you wanted the perks above an NCO then you should have tried harder. FYI my five years in the Marines I never had a kitchen in my barracks room.

Response by SSG James Harbison made Sep 22 at 2017 8:45 AM

2017-09-22T08:45:35-04:00

First off, I can't speak on the park in issue since I have never heard this. Never did one of my units say that single Soldiers couldn't park in the unit or motor pool parking lots. Now, lets say we take that just over 300 dollars a month (4 bucks a meal) and give it to the Soldiers. Now that Soldier has to take that money and find three meals a day that include an entree, two sides, dessert, salad and beverage. Good luck on that. I worked on NAVAIRSTA/CCAAD when it was decided what a great idea it would be to give the service members their food allowance and close the dining facilities. And SUPRISE SUPRISE!! they all had great televisions and stereos. New cars and great shoes. Then they were all complaining to the units that they had no food. You are 27 years old, and I would like to think have a higher living standard than most new members, but have you paid attention to how the average 18-22 year old lives? This is why there are barracks inspections. For those eating and the DFAC and complaining about the food, how often have they offered to attend the menu planning boards? It's all well and great to complain about it to each other, but does no good if you don't complain to those who can fix it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2017 9:10 AM

2017-09-22T09:10:41-04:00

I was a single solider in the barracks but I had health and religious exempt status so I was able to retain my meal payment. It was by far more cost effective I was able to buy all the food I needed for meals on the small amount I was given for food. The barracks on many Army institutions are old and run down. Fort Hood was an example of fraud waste and abuse. The post claimed it was at 38% barracks utilization but what it failed to report was that it was putting 2 people in a room that was designated only for one person. I never felt more like a prisoner than the time I spent at Fort Hood.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 22 at 2017 9:46 AM

2017-09-22T09:46:15-04:00

Civilian life was the same when I was starting out. I was a foreman in a machine shop and all of the men under me were married and made a good deal more than I made - "because married people have more needs".

They did - but that doesn't make it right.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Sep 22 at 2017 7:30 PM

2017-09-22T19:30:14-04:00

There are benefits to being married no matter where you go. The military is no different. It's not discrimination. What if a married couple has kids? Should the military have the right to barge in whenever? You knew what you were getting into. This isn't a coddle me, hold me, give me a pacifier since I "feel" singled out, all-inclusive group.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2017 4:43 PM

2017-09-24T16:43:14-04:00

As an NCO who lives on post i dont get my BAH and BAS isnt to feed families and the way the cost if meals in the dfac has gone up i damn sure cant afford to eat my breakfast abd lunches there.. and the gas i spend going to and from work..geesh...

Response by SSG Carl Gamel made Oct 27 at 2017 9:03 AM

2017-10-27T09:03:41-04:00

I spent twenty years in the Army as a single man and I can tell you the Single soldier got screwed every time. The single soldier was the best bargain for the Army, barracks ate a lot cheaper to build then quarters, there is no reason to build schools or hire teachers for dependent children, much less use of medical facilities, the single soldier in the barracks was available at last minute notice, more easily deployed, no shipping of household goods overseas, much less car shipping.
The single soldier was the best bargain, but the least appreciated.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 27 at 2017 9:43 AM

2017-10-27T09:43:14-04:00

From your lips to the Pentagon's ears...

Response by CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. made Nov 1 at 2017 1:35 PM

2017-11-01T13:35:39-04:00

I heard these SAME arguments in 1965. Nothing changes.

Response by SFC Sandra Cooper made Nov 14 at 2017 2:19 PM

2017-11-14T14:19:17-05:00

I've been on all sides of this dilemma. While on Active Duty (in Germany) I lived in the barracks. Full disclosure, they were brand new, and compared to the open bay barracks I'd just come from, I thought they were pretty nice. Three man rooms, with a shared bathroom. I had a great 1SG and we were allowed to use our own sheets, and comforters; unless there was a planned barracks inspection, then we had to use the whites and woolies. We had a great DFAC, our cooks were always winning awards, and the food was pretty nutritious.
I got married while I was in GE, and moved out of the barracks. The BAH and COLA still didn't cover my rent for a two room flat. It had a super slim and short fridge that on the tallest shelf wouldn't hold a plastic gallon of milk. I bought cardboard 1/2 gallons so I could fold the top over. The oven was just big enough to put an 8 lb turkey in it for Thanksgiving, and I burned the skin off of the top of my hand (on the electric heating element) pulling it out. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, I learned a lot about adapting during my stint there.
I've been where there was about a 60/40 split of married Soldiers living on and off post. My Commander's did not allow married Soldiers to leave post after arriving for the first formation (to include those who lived in post housing). We were all scrambling for a shower in the gym after PT. If I wanted to eat breakfast after PT (because breakfast at 4am wasn't always a choice I made), I was paying for it at the DFAC. I didn't mind so much, its one meal that is pretty hard to mess up. I took my lunch most days (a sandwich and a piece of fruit, or a chopped salad), most of the other married folks just paid for lunch at the DFAC, unless they slipped home unnoticed.
The facts: 1. Basic Allowance for Housing is intended for the Soldier to use to offset the cost of housing and the additional costs associated with said housing; rent, electricity, water, garbage collection, and in so many states (sewage fees). 2. BAS (that $300 for food) - BAS is for the Soldier, not his/her dependents. That's just over $3.00 per meal for the Soldier.
Opinion, but true for most: BAH does not even come close to covering all of those additional expenses. BAS most often is enough to buy a months worth of groceries for one person (coupons and sales always help). Fuel for the car to go buy groceries, fuel for the car to get back and forth to work (unless you were like a bunch of your peers and only had one car, I walked to work; never lived more than a couple of miles from duty location.
The notion that paying $1068 dollars to live in the Barracks, doesn't go without merit. However, it's a pretty solid deal. Your rent, unlimited supply of electricity, water, sewer usage, and garbage collection seem to be at a fair cost.
What I will give you - Single Soldiers living in the barracks are always called upon first when there is a crisis; they are immediately available (I always thought that was bogus when I was single). Single Soldier's will always get manipulated into pulling CQ/Staff Duty etc. during the Holidays (as if you don't have any family at all); again I thought it was BOGUS. Married and single Soldiers with dependents leave duty early at least once a week if not more; leaving those single Soldiers to finish the work, or the Soldiers who have valid, working family care plans. This didn't happen as much when I was on AD, but now it's an everyday occurrence.

Bottom Line: We all choose. I chose to raise my hand; I knew what I was in for as a single Soldier. I didn't complain about my condition, I made the best of it. I didn't spend much time in the barracks, I was working or exploring my new location, getting everything out of my assignments. I chose to get married and struggle financially, struggle to work out compromises with that one and only car; learned to speak more German than I ever thought I would, just by walking to and from work. I chose to marry another Soldier so that required us to have a Family Care Plan, get up at 0400 to get children up, changed, diaper bags packed, and loaded into the car for the trip to day care, and still make it to formation. Really envy those guys living in the barracks who can roll out of bed at 0540, 20 minutes before formation. Not really, I chose to marry, and procreate, the extra just comes with it. No regrets.

There are up sides to being a single Soldier as well as down sides. Same is true for the married Soldier or single Soldier with dependents. We choose our own destiny.

I like the Air Force Colonels suggestion that you embark on a mission to change the Army's way of thinking and perhaps at the rank of E5 be permitted to get out of the barracks.

Choose to make a difference. If you bring a complaint to the table, show up with a possible solution for desert.

Response by SSG Wilson Lucero made Jan 21 at 2018 11:29 AM

2018-01-21T11:29:02-05:00

The Army doesn't discriminate against single soldiers. As a matter of fact, they will accommodate to you according to regulations just like it would for married Soldiers. Single Soldiers can live off post and draw BAH with no dependent depending on their MOS, job requirements and such. The same for separation rations allowances. If you're on a special diet or work schedule prevent you from eating in the dining facility, then you can receive separate rations. You just need to get your priorities straight and in order. Even married Soldiers go through the same procedures like anyone else. They say the same thing about single Soldiers too.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 21 at 2018 2:10 PM

2018-01-21T14:10:51-05:00

Because it can, has, and will most likely always will. I may be in the minority, but I do not feel their should be a BAH with dependents at all. One standard BAH, I don't care if you married, have kids or not. No other system of pay allows you to get paid based on this factor with in Government services. Only the military does. For what it is worth, I agree with you.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2018 11:23 PM

2018-02-27T23:23:56-05:00

That would all make sense if life was fare but it’s not. I have been single and lived in the barracks. I have been married and lived off post. I am married and only get without depends BAH. You’re a 27 year old SGT bitching cause you have the same living arrangements at 17/18 year olds. Maybe if you would have gone in the Army when you graduated high school and not gone to college you would have the rank to be authorized to live off post. Maybe if these young privates with no responsibilities to a family would rent an apartment off post and have beerfest and get in trouble the leadership would consider letting these knuckleheads run crazy unsupervised getting put in jail. But hey, I get it, your part of the new what about me generation of soldiers that only thinks about what is owed to them. So big picture- the system works as well as it can for now to get minimal supervision on some real knuckleheads. Commanders don’t have time to deal with Soliers in jail, not paying their rent, and signing AER loans cause they pent all their money on an expensive car to get to work but can’t fix cause it cost too much. So you and these other self centered officers can cry about your situation all you want. And just because you have a college degree doesn’t make you any better then the guy next to you. It’s what you do to take care of your Soldiers and accomplish your mission that gives you worth. Not your marital status.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2018 11:59 PM

2018-02-27T23:59:15-05:00

I feel for your circumstances Sargent. I don't know if it will make things feel better, but please allow me to tell you my story. 1975, 82nd. ABN Fort Bragg NC.

* I was not married, a Sargent E-5,
* I was paid $532.00 a month, no additional monetary benefits,
* No living or housing Allowance due to I was not married,
* I had no choice but to live in the Barrack, with all the lower ranking personnel,
* I had a two bunk room 10'x12', but only me staying there, no other NCO's were single,
* I had to clean my living area, and pass all the Co's inspections weekly,
* Had to shower and use the same toilets as the rest of the 40+ men living in barracks,
* Eat my meals in the Mess Hall with all the others,
* My room was used as the daily NCO meeting and bullshit area, regardless,
* I was always the CQ on weekends, because I was the only NCO living at the barracks,
* CQ on weekends, I was responsible for all individuals who were restricted to the barrack,
* CQ Runner and Fire Watch were someone "TOP" was punishing with discipline,
* Responsible for all personnel's welfare and safety, who were living at the barracks,
* CQ was the first contact on weekends on all concerns for the company,
* CQ was responsible for the Arms Room and Weapons on weekends,
* Daily responsible for first call at 0500hrs, and made sure everyone got up,
* Daily responsible for everyone living in barracks made morning formations 0600hrs,
* Had to make reports on personnel that were AWOL for formation,
Not to mention that I was the, "Only one from Guam", in the Brigade, 4000+ men, and never thought or complained, I was the minority.

No Sargent, I'm not another one single soldier bitching and complaining, but you hit it right on the head.
"The Grass is Greener on the other side of the Fence!" "Your GRASS and my FENCE"
Somewhere early in my Army experience, I was told that I was, "MARRIED TO THE ARMY."
And, I'm still here 43 years later in life, nothing more expected in those days, but I had a good story to tell you. Salute!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2018 2:26 AM

2018-02-28T02:26:43-05:00

I’m a single Soldier about to retire with 31 years. I have been a NCO and now an officer. I would have to agree that single Soldiers are treated differently. We are all Soldiers and show be afforded the same things. Their should be a duty roster and if it’s your turn Soldier it shouldn’t matter if you’re married. BAH should be exactly the same. Soldier’s choose to be married. Single Soldiers shouldn’t get approximately $300 less a month because they chose to be single. I think the military will realize this as budgets get tighter. I was blessed to never have to stay in the barracks due to a dependent parent but I am in agreement that I shouldn’t have been treated any differently.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 12:18 PM

2018-03-24T12:18:12-04:00

You have some valid points, but i tend to think that the army doesn't give single soldiers these entitlements because most single soldiers that are lower enlisted come right into the military right after high school. They have no knowledge of finances. If you put any 18yr old kid out in the world to have to learn about bills and credit through trial and error you might be setting them up for failure. You know you also so say the army is discriminating against single soldiers. But a single SSG and up usually get the entitlements to live off base, mainly because they at this point have learned how to take care of themselves and can mentor others on financial decisions. So i think it's more to give folks who just come out of high school a chance to learn about life before throwing them completely out there. As far as the parking situation, i don't know what to say about that.

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Apr 23 at 2018 5:24 PM

2018-04-23T17:24:23-04:00

after the gulf war I returned stateside, I was joined with a buddy from my previous unit and 2 other guys.... we rented a house off post, but was told we needed to maintain our rooms. the first inspection the BC and SGM asked where all my personal stuff is , as I kept only what was required there.... needless to say command got an ass chewing we were all told to get our stuff out so others could move in.... and shortly after we all got an allowance.

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Sep 18 at 2018 9:34 PM

2018-09-18T21:34:49-04:00

SGT Eric Thrasher That was one of the most well thought out arguments for the single Soldier I have ever read. You gained notoriety with your simple easy to follow arguments. Thanks for a great read.

Response by SGT Nick Webber made Dec 31 at 2018 11:29 AM

2018-12-31T11:29:30-05:00

If you don't like the dfac fill out a 4187 for separate rations. The barracks will always be barracks, but single soldiers have more commradie because they live together. This kinda alienates the married soldiers who gave up their freedoms. So just embrace the sick, and don't give them a reason to harass you.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 2:00 PM

2018-12-31T14:00:19-05:00

I hear your complaints. Back when I was an NCO, I heard those same complaints from my Soldiers. If you’ll allow me, I’d like to make a couple of points in an attempt to dispel your assertion of “discrimination” against single Soldiers.

First off, the idea that there is a pay disparity based simply on BAH, in my opinion, is misinformed. The cost of living off-post on the local economy is higher than I think you realize. BAH is published in open media sources, meaning anyone and everyone with internet access can see exactly how much Soldiers are paid for housing. Apartment complexes and landlords of single-family homes base their rental rates on this number. That BAH also weighs heavily into the economy as it relates to the cost of home ownership. All that to say, many married Soldiers (and single Soldiers who are authorized to live off-post) will pay every cent of their BAH on an apartment or home for rent. Now add in the cost of utilities (electric, gas, water, garbage pickup) which those who live in the barracks aren’t responsible for, and suddenly many of the off-post dwellers are paying out of pocket for their home.

Certainly there are less costly apartments out there that offer married Soldiers to save a little cash - typically if you’re willing to commute 30 minutes or longer to work, or if you don’t mind cramming a family of four into a tiny, 2-bedroom apartment/condo/townhouse.

Secondly, I’m personally unfamiliar with this “more freedom” you mention. As a married E-3, E-4, E-5, I was still expected to work staff duty shifts as the runner and SDNCO. I reported to work to conduct barracks inspections. I did “police calls” of the installation. I was even called in to do police calls of the barracks that I didn’t even live in. The reason you have NCOs conducting inspections of your living quarters is because you don’t own that living space; it is either owned or leased by the military. The military is responsible for that property, so it is within their authority to ensure you are acting as a good steward of their property. On-post housing can be subject to the same scrutiny, if the agency which owns the property allows it. Also with regard to “freedom,” I am expected to be at work at the same time as those who live in the barracks, despite the fact that it takes me 30+ minutes to get to work, versus the 5 minute drive from the barracks. Neither as enlisted or as a Warrant Officer did I or do I get any breaks on my work schedule simply because I live off-post.

Let’s talk about the furniture that is provided to you at no cost, and is replaced for free as it becomes worn-out or broken (not as a result of negligence or recklessness). Living off-post means I get to pay to furnish my home. As an E-4, I had to buy couches, living room furniture, washer and dryer (and other appliances), tables, chairs, beds, dressers, etc. And do you know what happens when something breaks? I have to buy replacements. I don’t get to call housing when my water heater stops working; I have to pay to fix it or buy a new one.

My final thought is this (and this is my response to anyone in any profession who accepts a job and then complains about the pay, benefits, commute, or anything else): you knew what you were signing up for; and if you didn’t, you should have done your homework. This is how the military has operated for decades or longer. You should have known that, as a single Soldier, you’d be living in the barracks with another Soldier, while the married Soldiers and Single senior-NCOs and Officers get to live elsewhere. You should have known you’d be expected to keep your living space clean and up to standards.

If you are unhappy with your circumstances, you have options. As a college graduate, you have the option of transitioning to become a commissioned officer through various programs (“Green to Gold,” etc). With or without a college degree, you can apply to become a Warrant Officer (I have no college degree, and I am pilot. As the adage goes, “Flight School starts every two weeks.”).

Rather than complain about your situation, take action and forge a better future for yourself. But that’s just my recommendation.

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Dec 31 at 2018 2:01 PM

2018-12-31T14:01:23-05:00

Ok so you open up your complaint by saying you are 27 and have a college degree. You are entry level in a nondegree job primarily for 18 to 21 year olds. There is nothing wrong with enlisting at your age with a degree but aside from starting at E4 you should not expect special treatment. If you want better living accommodations get promoted. Many posts put their ncos off post. Senior ncos that are single get even better on post housing.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Dec 31 at 2018 4:29 PM

2018-12-31T16:29:00-05:00

You are in the wrong place.. for now, suck it up and do as told until your ETS...

Response by CWO4 Gene A. made Dec 31 at 2018 6:08 PM

2018-12-31T18:08:58-05:00

Motivation to move up or get married. As a 27 year old E4, college graduate the path ahead is paved for you. Does beg the question why you are still an E4 as a college grad and 27 years if age. No one promised you a rose garden when you joined. But, take my word for it, stick it out and more privileges will be afforded you as you advance. If not, get out.

Response by SPC John Decker made Dec 31 at 2018 10:30 PM

2018-12-31T22:30:34-05:00

I was single while I was in. I never had to deal with the things described. I agree with the overall assessment though. It does seem unfair.

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Jan 1 at 2019 9:02 AM

2019-01-01T09:02:44-05:00

It's been this way for decades.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 1 at 2019 3:17 PM

2019-01-01T15:17:11-05:00

Every time I moved into base quarters, my expendable income went up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 3:06 PM

2019-01-02T15:06:11-05:00

I lived in a squadbay. Stop bitching over having an actual bedroom and bathroom to yourself, and a shared living room and kitchen with one other person you may or may not ever have to deal with.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 3:07 PM

2019-01-02T15:07:35-05:00

I lived in a squadbay. Stop bitching about having a bedroom and bathroom all to yourself, and a shared living room and kitchen with one other person you may or may not ever have to deal with.

Response by SSG Craig Newton made Jan 4 at 2019 10:57 AM

2019-01-04T10:57:12-05:00

Everything you say is true. And maybe it isn’t fair. But it is what it is and it hasn’t changed since Washington was a private. I lived in the barracks as a 27 year old sergeant. Get over it.

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Jan 12 at 2019 4:19 PM

2019-01-12T16:19:10-05:00

I have been both. A single soldier is responsible for himself/herself. A married soldier is not. Just the way it is. Life’s not fair. Deal with it. That goes for you too CPT.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Monk made Jan 15 at 2019 7:27 PM

2019-01-15T19:27:03-05:00

My sister and I have had this same discussion. She being Air Force while I was Army. There is a big difference between how the services treat their troops. I remember having to live in what was on paper a single soldiers room but usually two and at time as many as four of us. At those times the room only had enough room for two sets of bunk beds and four wall lockers. As an E5 I was not allowed to move out while my sister as an E3 was aloud to live off post. To add to your list of complaints I'd throw in getting stuck with Staff Duty runner or CQ duty because you live in the barracks and it was easier to pull someone rather call in a married person or having served 24hrs on Staff Duty and the married soldiers get to go home to sleep but you're back on duty because everyone else is working. (at Ft Drum the Company CP's are connected to the barracks with Battalion HQ in front of the two sets of barracks.) Getting stuck eating MRE's because we worked past dinner chow or post closed due to snow and chow halls is closed. Not allowed to have cooking utensils because they are considered a fire hazard. And of course my biggest problem when I was younger, the no alcohol in the barracks.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Monk made Jan 15 at 2019 8:44 PM

2019-01-15T20:44:08-05:00

Well said Sgt. Never heard of a married person getting stuck on a hey you detail during the weekend because he stepped out into the hallway.

Response by CPL James Barnstead made Jan 17 at 2019 9:28 AM

2019-01-17T09:28:35-05:00

I couldn’t disagree more with your statement. My second tour in Iraq I was the only single NCO in my Squad. Before deployment I was always the one that stayed late and delt with any issues. Once we got in country I volunteer to run lead on missions because of the fact I was single with no kids. I didn’t have to do these things, but even being single I understood how important family “and especially kids” are. Marriaged soldier give up much more being away form their family’s. As a single soldier what are you missing? I never had a problem with the extra work. It’s a good way to teach your joes selfless service.

Response by SPC Mike Polston made Jan 18 at 2019 12:28 AM

2019-01-18T00:28:21-05:00

To me there really isn't any discrimination between single or married soldiers. I was originally single and since I was an Air Traffic Controller I had to work shifts which meant that I was on separate rations instead of a meal card. If I ate in the chow hall, I paid for my meal, but I wasn't able to eat there most of the time so my food cost a lot more. When I got married that our food costs went up. Believe me when I say people with meal cards and use the chow hall actually end up with more spendable money out of their pay.

Single soldiers are normally required to live in the barracks or similar living quarters on post because it saves money. Some things are supplied by the military and therefore you are required to take care of that equipment. Inspections are to insure that you are maintaining the equipment properly. Inspections are there to also ensure discipline and responsibility in single soldiers. My comparison, married soldiers have much greater responsibility and discipline placed upon them because they have families. If you think about it, this is one of the primary reasons auto insurance is cheaper for married people verses single people. Married soldiers homes are normally not inspected because their homes and the items in them are not military property. If they live in military family housing their home is inspected after the leave and before a new family moves in but they are not subject to inspections because again, the items they have in it are normally not military property. Simply speaking, soldiers are required and responsible to take care of their military issued property, be it a bed or a vehicle.

Many barracks or living quarter for single soldiers are close to the unit work place so soldiers should be able to walk back and forth when married soldiers normally live a considerable distance further away from the work place. You see my point there?

Mind you, until I went to Korea, I was single and had to go through the same as you. I have lived on both sides.

Response by MSG David Lambert made Jan 29 at 2019 9:12 AM

2019-01-29T09:12:19-05:00

When I was drafted in 1972, the barracks at Ft Lewis had a mess hall attached. We had beer vending machines in the day room. We has a couple kegs in the mess hall and were allowed up to two glasses of beer with lunch. We were allowed to live off base at our own expense. And, as privates (conscripts) we were treated as adults. Even if allowed to live off base, we still maintained a room in the barracks subject to inspections without notice. We received under $200. Per month after taxes. Married people were treated exactly the same as us jr enlisted. I know because I got married as a PFC. We had to all park in the same location and still during duty hours were required to eat in the same mess hall. If we had no money, still got fed and had it deducted from our BAS for each meal. On exercises we forfeited BAS during the time of that exercise. We were not allowed to hold any second job to augment income.

Life in today’s Army is different from then. Culture is different, people are different, expectations and reality is different. So, the grass may look greener as it always has, but realistic application of standards have also changed due to changing times. Improvise, adapt and meet your challenges. Fairness in life will never be reality. How you face it, is how you overcome adversity.

Response by PO2 Mike Shorey made Feb 2 at 2019 5:12 PM

2019-02-02T17:12:18-05:00

It’s like that in every branch. Doesn’t make it right.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Feb 3 at 2019 12:35 AM

2019-02-03T00:35:27-05:00

Perhaps you should start off the end of you ARMY expected bitching to show you're happy and get married. Just kidding. Ylu see the married guys and gals having so much more because they're married. Well as an Air Force E5, who has been married twice while in the service, let me tell you the "grass" isn't "always greener on the other side of the fence". Pay for housing from DoD isn't enough to pay for everything you want or need. Throw in a kid or more and the purse strings are even tighter. Lots more food, clothing school supplies, insurance for you and the wife, the need for 2 cars. School outings, PTA dues, nights out, movies, the list goes on and on. Throw in what it would cost your family to go on leave, your spouse better get herself a job. If you buy verses rent a house, is a greater expense. If you chose to live in base housing with your family BAH is gone. Housing inspections come into play, but they don't check your beds for hospital corners. Lawns have to be cut weekly and at a certain height. Trash pick up is every week and has to be on the provided container and approved bags plus be so far from the curb. (More later)

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Feb 3 at 2019 4:10 AM

2019-02-03T04:10:07-05:00

Okay, back to the discrimination of single soldiers. Yes ya'll have it tough these days. If you live in the barracks, you are two members in a communal area. A central area for eating meals, tv watching, whatever. Real tough on an individual. Try sharing a room, bunk or single rack beds, night stands for each. Wall lockers made of steel. A single desk maybe two if you're NCOs. A bathroom shared not only by you and your roommate, but by the two guys next door. One shower, one toilet and locks on both doors. Both rooms share responsiblities for its cleaning and write ups from inspections. The floors in each room are tiles, which must be waxed and buffed everyday. To top it off there might be one to two buffers for threes floors of the barracks! Now, you talk about having BAS. BAS is based on rank and single rate or married. More mouths to feed does not go past two persons in a family. Even if you're married to another service member, the higher rank gets the higher BAS rate, and they both get single rate for BAH. That sucks! I was married to another Air Force member, lower rank and our BAH was around $350 per month together. Our apartment cost $450 a month. Our BAS was $250 for me and $150 for her. And when we had two kids come along, things grew pretty tight. Diapers, baby food, crib (we kept the one crib when our first child was old enough and big enough to sleep in a single bed). Clothes, the never ending monthly growth rate of kids is murder on a check book! Shoes for the two of them was worse. A boy three years younger than his sister, had feet the size of moose by age one! Then of course there were toys. They learned to share toys quick because TDYs were scarce. We had to have two cars for us because we worked different shifts and different areas of the base. We also had to put the kids in Child Care during the shift of whomever worked the day shift. That's not cheap for two kids, when one can be in the CDC and the other had to be in maybe a friend's house who had childcare training. Now, talk about discriminmation of single verus married personnel, deploy a married member overseas for a nonaccompanied tour of one year. For that one year, the married member loses their BAS and BAH, these days. Back in the day, when BAS was $50.00 and BAH was $150 for a married E5. Losing that total of $200 a month would wreck a family. The non military spouse had to find a great paying job for that one year. DEROSing back always meant PCSing to a new base. Now non military member has the choice of moving to the new area first or waiting for the military spouse to return home and move together. I could go on about this subject longer, but my hands and fingers suffer from arthritist and I grow tired. But you get the point of what it's like to be discrimminated for being single or married in the military. Us old hands can fill you in on a lot of things about it.

Response by SFC George “Bones” Small made Feb 3 at 2019 10:13 AM

2019-02-03T10:13:44-05:00

As a retired Sr NCO that lived in the old WW2 style barracks, and having lived both on and off base after getting married and while raising a family, I call this BS. All you're thinking about is your pitiful self-serving self. Why don't you do us all a favor and just get out if you can't comprehend how things really are. People aren't getting married to move out of the barracks and make more military pay. It's rediculous to consider that, and only people like you might do it. Those married military service members have less available spending money than you think. The extra they get paid only goes half as far because you very rarely will ever see the cost of housing and other necessities go as far as the extra pay will provide them. If we don't take care of our married military and the military families, retention will drop like a brick. Now, you have it pretty darn good. If you want to move out of the nice barracks rooms that you are generously provided with free of cost nowadays, you are more than welcome. Lower Enlisted most likely have to maintain a respectable place in the barracks like every other single lower enlisted service member, but officers and warrants don't as far as I know, because they're supposed to be more responsible. You have no extra mouths to feed, no extra bodies to cloth, and no extra expenses of transportation, schooling, or social/health activities in raising a healthy family. Lucky you, no personal responsibility for anyone else's well being but your own selfish self. If I was your dad, I would of slapped some sense in you a long time ago.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Feb 3 at 2019 11:41 PM

2019-02-03T23:41:01-05:00

I went in as a single soldier and lived in a barracks. We did not have a two room apt but a one room two bed apt and lived in a barracks and had to go to the common room to eat. So consider yourself lucky. We had to go to the diner across the quad. Even the single officers ate there. We did not have to pay any rent though. We did not get any BAH. i did get married after my first year and lived off base. I used the extra money to pay my rent. And to buy food and so on and so forth. So it does balance out in the long run.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2019 2:56 PM

2019-02-05T14:56:41-05:00

I think what a lot of people i see are missing, is all of the extra expenses that come with having a family or children. At that point you don’t have to provide only for yourself. You have other mouths to feed, bodies to clothe, immune systems to nourish. You have other people you are responsible for and the Army takes that into consideration.

Response by SGT John Schizas made Feb 5 at 2019 8:45 PM

2019-02-05T20:45:57-05:00

Wow. Times have changed since I ETS’d. It was complete opposite during my time. “soldier, if the Army wanted you to have a wife, we would have issued you one.”

Response by SGT Lloyd Burge made Feb 6 at 2019 12:02 AM

2019-02-06T00:02:54-05:00

These are issues to be taken up with command. FT Riley KS, 1976.Ww had a commander who told us that the barracks were our home and within common sense limits, we were allowed to buy our own furniture and decorate the rooms however we wanted. We were to look on inspections as nothing more the the rights of the landlord seeing to it that his property was being kept up. This system worked. We never failed a barracks inspection.
Parking-The only reserved parking area I ever saw was one spot for the commander, and one spot for the 1SG or CSM.

Response by SFC Dennis Cash made Feb 6 at 2019 9:16 PM

2019-02-06T21:16:49-05:00

Just hang strong, back in the 80s when I was a single Soldier I had to go through the same stuff. As the time went on, you adapt and overcome the struggles.
Drive on and move up.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Feb 6 at 2019 11:07 PM

2019-02-06T23:07:54-05:00

If you're unhappy leave the military nobody wants a whinner and what I read so far after a few lines, you believe your entitled to more freedom in how you live in the barracks, the food you eat, the furniture you have to utilize, just because you went to college apparently you feel privileged, a diva of sorts, well get over it, if your room and your bunk weren't up to par then it's on you to get a$$ in gear, I myself had the same type of living quarters, ate the same floor, had inspections and learned to correct the problems before it became a bigger one, I myself got married and been with my lady for 39 years, married couples are aloud to live off post until you have a family and then given the choice of moving onto base housing either way you're still responsible for all of your issued uniforms and gear, there were a few times we were to haul our gear and have it inspected and accounted, take a deep breath learn from your mistakes, enjoy your time in the military but ultimately it's on your shoulders, keep a positive view, take it in stride, good luck to you from a former soldier

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2019 4:29 AM

2019-02-07T04:29:24-05:00

Okay so as a Sgt that has lived in the barracks before I can agree that if does suck. Barracks inspections and standards of what's allowed can be annoying. However, I have seen what the barracks look like without leadership coming through.

As for the BAS part I do believe that everyone should get it. If a soldier so chooses to go to the dfac then they should be charged for the medal just the same as the rest of us.

Your parking and laundry issue can be fixed with an IG complaint as that is not right.

As for inspections on housing for the married soldiers. It does not happen due the fact that if it's considered private property. There for the units would have to go to the mp station and have a reason (such as drugs or abuse) to get a warrant to go in unless invited.

I do see where you are coming from, however you are going about it the wrong way.

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Feb 7 at 2019 2:34 PM

2019-02-07T14:34:16-05:00

A lot sure has changed since I was in the Army. We didn’t have to pay for meal cards , which I think is a crock of shit, and we also didn’t have apartment style barracks. But I enjoy not having to pay rent or grocery shopping like I did when I was married prior to moving into the barracks. It’s may not be fair to have inspections and have barracks GI Party’s but that the cost of being in the Army that we all knew well at least I knew, prior to joining. I would say to you life is never going to be fair for the single soldier but life in general is not fair.

Response by SPC Eugene Ruschenberg made Feb 7 at 2019 3:35 PM

2019-02-07T15:35:02-05:00

The reason married soldiers get more freedom and control of their life is because they have an advocate outside of the chain of command that can influence the chain of command. How often do soldiers go to E/O or their congressman or some other way outside the chain but up the chain? Rarely, because they would be chastised, browbeaten or intimidated. But how often do spouses complain? Significantly more often. So who does the Army have to keep happy? Spouses. And who benefits? Married soldiers.

Response by GySgt Lawrence D. Pool made Feb 7 at 2019 5:28 PM

2019-02-07T17:28:32-05:00

I was single the 1st 16 years in the Marine Corps, Pvt - SSgt. My major complaint on this subject is: Guess who usually caught the duty on weekends and holidays? That's hardly a coincidence!

Response by MSG Moises Maldonado made Feb 8 at 2019 2:34 PM

2019-02-08T14:34:19-05:00

Welcome to the Army. Your Problem is easily Corrected.. (if Permitted) Move off post.. Chances are you'd get in trouble faster doing that because being "SINGLE" you'd have the tendency of Party(ing) Hard, being Late for reveille, Live in a Pig sty( No Leader Supervision) Have Transportation Problems..etc... Trust me.. I had my Share of those... . Also remember.. What you Forfeit is an "Allowance" .. Yes a married Person gets it because he must live at home... Never fails,, a Junior enlisted will always find a way to "B---h" about anything and are Spoiled( remember yo' mama is no longer around) with a lot of easy living, I would've love to have had the kind of Barracks you Guys have nowadays ... I'd grant you, Married people get more time off due to family issues.. Not that I had the opportunity, I was the one in the ARMY, Not My wife Anything that had to do with Family She'd take care of that.. Never had Permissive ( in my Days? What was that.?) TDY, Paternity leave, Take the Kids to the Doctor, We weren't Allowed to BE Off Post in uniform other than TO/FRO Duty place & Home.. Much Less Go to the Mall.. etc. Take your Medicine ..! Again, Move Off Post and BINGO.. Good Luck..!!!! PS.. I've seen Single Soldiers living in Regular Quarter and Fill unused Units.. Now that's an Option. Then you can Still Forfeit in a more Fair way..

Response by MSgt Jerry Waters made Feb 8 at 2019 9:45 PM

2019-02-08T21:45:50-05:00

This message has been around for awhile! Get over this issue

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2019 11:47 PM

2019-02-08T23:47:48-05:00

Sounds like your company has issues it also sounds kike you are just a whinney baby. If you dont like it that is your problem move off post most commanders will allow NCO'S that option but then it is at your expence grow up you volunteered to serve no one forced you to and you were not drafted so be a man and stop crying

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 3:29 AM

2019-02-10T03:29:04-05:00

The Army discriminates against a whole bunch of shit. The list is long and, legal.
Married soldiers are allowed a housing stipend if there is no on post housing much like you would be if there was no barracks room for you.
The trick here is to focus on things that you control. Makes life a whole lot easier. Of course, the ultimate option is always available.....become a civilian and no more worrying about the married guy standing next to you in formation.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 10:17 AM

2019-02-10T10:17:08-05:00

Living in the barracks as a single, older, soldier was horrible. Having to deal with soldiers 6-7 years younger living away from home for the first time sucked. Also being treated like a child was embarrassing. The way some NCOs would talk to you just because you lived in the barracks was ridiculous. Glad I don’t have to live there anymore.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Feb 10 at 2019 2:56 PM

2019-02-10T14:56:31-05:00

Okay so i am coming into this late, but i have to point out a few things:

First i commend you on realizing that as a single soldier in the military, you have "perks" that a civilian doesn't have. i.e. no rent or utilities, and if you include those perks you are making, as an E-4, generally close to 40k a year, way more than the average civilian with your skill set.

Why you do not get that it is CHEAPER for the military to keep single soldiers in the barracks, just floors me. It used to be you had to get permission to be married, this was to make sure that the soldier getting married was mature enough to handle the added responsibility of off post life, and the financial responsibility of supporting a family, it used to be a PRIVILEGE to be married in the Army.

Anyone who said, we did not get paid like you do today, that is fucking BULLSHIT give me a date and time, and i will prove how you were getting paid the equivalent of today. A private in the civil war was paid 13 dollars a month. That during a time when the standard hourly wage for laborers was 10 cents an hour. 80 cents a day, 4 dollars a week or 17.20 a month; and again they did not pay for food, rent, or other "bills", not that there were many bills back then, but people did have to buy seed and hire labor ( 10 cents an hour 17 dollars a month) to help plant, and do other work on the family farm, unless they ad 20 kids, and then they had to feed all those kids. Military life has always been an easier life, money wise, than civilian life. And do not get me started on fucking down time.

You seem to have the ability to financial plan, that is a skill not many people have, civilian or otherwise, and that is why you see it the way you do. But, trust it serves a cost function for treating single soldiers the way it does. How many married soldiers have you seen come in late to formation? Need to miss work because of a sick spouse or child? Hell we just had a soldier on this forum crying they were going to send him to the field because his wife had lupus, was in week 36 ( an average of 38) of her pregnancy, and it was "high risk". That is a point you missed. When you live on post the Army can try and limit the stupid crap you do that can interfere with you not being able to do your job. I am not sure how your post runs transportation, but when i was on AD their were buses on post that took us from the barracks to our work place, we did not need a car.

Barracks inspections serve a purpose, they are designed to keep idiots in the barracks from not bathing, letting fungus grow in the showers, and to prevent them from having pets. I started out in the Navy. We had several sailors who refused to maintain a modicum of hygiene, all discharged. We were allowed tv's radios, couches, and carpet in our barracks rooms. Maybe you think these were not allowed, maybe they weren't, but did you try to get a better mattress? And two to a room? Man that is paradise! We were three and sometimes five to a room.

Finally, if the DFAC runs out of food, that is an offense beyond reason. I would take it to the BN commander EVERY TIME it happens, strait through the CSM, and if it did not get fixed., i would write my congressman, not getting fed is a BIG FUCKING NO NO in the modern army. Shit like that ruins careers. While I was on AD in the Alvy they served a bad Tuna melt, wiped out half the base, that Lt (0-3 in the navy) in charge of the DFAC was gone, history, done. I think you real issue is that at your age and education level you think somehow you are being mistreated. I have a few things to ask. Why did you not go to graduate school? Why are you not using your college degree to get a job? Why not apply for OCS? All of your issues would be fixed as an officer.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 6:39 PM

2019-02-10T18:39:15-05:00

Ok. I've been on both sides of this, so I'll defend the service, but only a little bit.

On housing, understand that barracks life is not a punishment; it's the default. Alas, the military is forced to allow some to escape since they can neither put spouses in barracks nor force members to wait until they're NCOs to get married (shakes fist). That being said, junior service members were meant to stay in barracks (or on the ship) to continue to build discipline et al. Not sure if it actually does any of that, but that's the intention.

On meal passes... yeah, that one sucks. But imagine this situation. We kill the meal pass. Airman Timmy is very happy, because the galley consists of mostly rejected prison food. But AN Timmy sucks at managing his money and runs out of food money before he runs out of paycheck - let's say on the 7th of the month.

Now, a hard-ass could say that he'll be awfully hungry. But would the command really want to be on the cover of Navy Times because they're forcing a Sailor to starve for a week? Is there a solution that will work out?

Response by CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner made Feb 10 at 2019 10:04 PM

2019-02-10T22:04:12-05:00

I was single when I first joined the Army in 1978. At that time, I shared a room with 3 other Soldiers, the latrine, complete with an open shower, was down the hall, the chow-hall was down the street--as was my place of duty. So it sounds like the Army is making an effort toward improving the environment for single Soldiers. When I went to Germany without my family in 2003, I lived in the BOQ. I had a 2-room "apartment" to myself, it was a very lonely existence! The single Soldiers could not relate, and the married Soldiers made me feel like a 3rd wheel. Whenever we came in from a field exercise, no-one was released until every weapon, vehicle, and all equipment, was clean. Single Soldiers went into their barracks rooms, took showers, ate, and even watched t.v. while they cleaned everything but the vehicles.
My point being, there are ins and outs of both, being married or single, it's what you make of the situation. You either deal with it as a Soldier, or you deal with a whole other set of problems as a civilian.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 1:40 AM

2019-02-11T01:40:03-05:00

While the Army may use accounting methods that show you receiving BAH and BAS, and it being deducted, you aren't entitled to those. This is simply an administrative process used to resource (fund) barracks and dining facilities, not an act of taking away an entitlement.

With some research, you'll find that you aren't entitled to BAH, or BAS, and the Army changed how it was resourced and managed in the past.

Installation commander's budgets used to require they use part of their budget to resource barracks housing, family housing, DFACs, and other facilities and activities. I don't believe there was earmarked money, but that isn't relevant for purpose of this discussion.

Before the administrative change to how these were resourced (budgeted, tracked), you wouldn't see the payment and deduction of BAH and BAS (DFAC) on your LES, because you weren't entitled to them.

You still aren't entitled to them, so you aren't paying for anything, although it may appear so, on paper.
Similarly, married Soldiers residing on post before the change in budgeting and accounting, didn't show any BAH on their LES, because they weren't entitled to it because they resided in on post housing.

So, you don't really pay anything, aren't being discriminated against, and the Army isn't interfering with your ability to control your budget.
You can't save $300 of money you aren't entitled to.

Were it the days of squad leaders checking barracks rooms every morning before PT, mandatory GI parties to clean barracks evenings and weekends, Charge of Quarters in the barracks, no visitation in the barracks, nothing other than military furniture, mandatory displays and wall locker displays, orderly room colocated with the barracks, then, yes, there WAS different treatment for Soldiers residing in the barracks.

When I lived in the barracks, it wasn't uncommon to be commandeered for weekend duty when another Soldier failed to report for duty, and entering using a master key at times. For that reason, I always kept a single beer beside my bunk. You would hear the NCO seeking a body knocking door to door. When they reached my door, I'd pop the beer, chug a bit, and open the door with my best been drinking all night look.

Response by Caitlin Williams made Feb 11 at 2019 4:39 AM

2019-02-11T04:39:14-05:00

Hoping to shed some insight from a spouse here who has seen first hand both situations of single soldier vs married soldier. When my husband (then boyfriend) got assigned to his first duty station the state next to us he was assigned a barracks and was to maintain that barracks even though he was granted permission at E2 to live with me off base in a shared rental agreement. This is solely based on the judgement of command to allow this. Now in my personal opinion the reason I think that there is discrimination against single soldiers is mainly because the actual soldier themselves have very few rights while under command. Where as if a soldier is married and live under the house with a civilian,a civilian such as a spouse or child has all rights and by law in privatizated housing only the landlord which is base housing may do inspections with 48 hours notice unless deemed a emergency. Command isn’t allowed to come into privatized housing without reasonable notice under any circumstances because they do not have the authority,military police have the authority if deemed a emergency from command or have a warrant. All because one person in the house is a civilian. (How I know this is because we had to deal with this situation of rights and one of his chain of command thinking they can get at my husband and break the law by stepping into my territory)I had to go to JAG and Base Housing to get my information so I could handle the situation properly because I didn’t appreciate getting woke up at 7:30am with 5 min notice that someone was coming into my home to do a inspection because they didn’t like the fact my husbands car title wasn’t still here and with the car causing a Panic attack and then scrutinized my service dog as he was trying to prevent me from passing out but not to mention making the comment of you don’t want to raise kids with a house smelling like this right after I just had a miscarriage.(I do henna tattoos the mix stinks,I had a henna party the night before which was a Sunday,this surprise inspection was a Monday morning) that same leader asked to see the inheritance my husband got and wanted to know what we’ve been spending it on which is also out of line. That money was no longer in my husbands account because I’m the one who manages the finances. Anyway. When you have no dependents in my opinion from what I’ve been through and gathered that you don’t have the rights to the same thing as those with dependents which I agree isn’t right but it’s based upon the judgement of most commands cause like I said when hubby was a single E2 he was allowed to rent a apartment with me off base 6 months at his new duty station. Most duty stations it would be a financial burden I think to reside off base as a single soldier which is why they usually don’t allow it. Hope this shows a different perspective to you.

Response by SSG Rheta Perez made Feb 11 at 2019 8:33 AM

2019-02-11T08:33:05-05:00

Don’t want to violate your safe space, but if you want cuddles and love, you should have stayed with your mama. I’ve been in both positions, single and married, so I kind of know of which I speak. Let’s see, they give you a bed and food, and all you have to worry about is completing the mission. No matter what, married or single,the mission takes priority.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 10:04 AM

2019-02-11T10:04:08-05:00

Agree with you 100%. I was in a very similar situation as you when I was single in the barracks. Atleast you have your own private room. I shared one single room when I was in the barracks. Friend of mine was 38 sharing a room with a 19 year old. I see two possible solutions to the problem. Either get married, which is what many soldiers do, which I believe contributes to the high divorce rate in the military or get out. When I got married and moved off post I made significantly more money and improved my life significantly. When I ETS'd I improved it significantly more. Its a huge issue in treatment that doesn't get talked about. Its a big reason why I am no longer serving.

Response by SPC Steve ChenRobbins made Feb 12 at 2019 7:48 AM

2019-02-12T07:48:14-05:00

Somebody else getting something doesn't mean you are being deprived of it, IMO. You get what you get, and you should decide whether you are willing to serve under those terms. If yes, you are good to go. If no, don't reenlist. Nothing to do what the married guy gets, or what the doctor who enlisted gets, or what the person who served on the other base gets.

There are a lot of factors that can get you more pay, if you enlisted because you hoped for good compensation.

Response by SPC Jerry Jones made Feb 21 at 2019 7:14 AM

2019-02-21T07:14:22-05:00

I agree, they definitely do discriminate. Married soldiers get a lot of perks that single soldiers don't. On the parking issue, that is not right. When I was enlisted, you just parked wherever there was a space, no lots reserved for anyone except the commanders.
On the barracks, yours sound like a hotel...furniture, kitchen, etc.....you are lucky. When I was in, it was 2-4 guys per room, sometimes 6, no furniture except your military bed and locker, and definitely no kitchen. Showers and latrines were down the hall, not in rooms. We had daily inspections, and if you were in the barracks after last formation, you would most likely be put on duty if they needed to fill a spot...that is why 95% of the barracks soldiers disappeared after last formation. They would spend hours at stores, restaurants and bars just to not be picked for duty when someone couldn't show up.

Point: The married soldiers have to pay for gas to get to base, pay outside bills and buy their own food. Single soldiers have everything provided. For me, it was worth the hassle to be single in the barracks.

One major point: just wait until you get back to the civilian world....it's EXACTLY the same thing....married people won't have to work holidays, single people will, and so on. They will assume you have no life because you are single. If you can't handle this issue in the military, then civilian jobs will drive you insane. It's the same, if not worse.

You have some good points, but this is the way it has been for a long time inside and outside of the military. Enjoy your barracks perks (kitchen,furniture, etc.). You were actually living better than a lot of past single soldiers when you were in the barracks....but, on the parking issue, I think the parking reserved for married soldiers is BS, especially if you can't park next to your own barracks.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2019 5:41 AM

2019-02-22T05:41:09-05:00

At every stage there is risk / reward. Someone your exact demographic sans being in the military would take exception at all the places that offer you credit ( good or bad terms) simply because you enlisted. You compared single to married, then got married and still compare two entirely different institutions. It really doesn't matter the subject , I could say the same thing ( why not get married/ why not this or that?? It comes to the same conclusion its all about your attitude. The title had me thinking of issues like not allowing single parent soldiers to enlist but allowing married ones to. Since your writing doesn't talk about corrupt/ abusive/ blatantly discriminatory preferential treatment, it looks like you're in a good unit in a good setting. You have time to notice the difference between yourself and ppl who are married, while the same time you had time to work on your promotion, date, marry, and still further your research on who has it better. Have you ever stopped and thought about the cost to house / feed/ healthcare/ gym membership/etc that you are fully entitled to simply by having your CAC. You see and state a few issues that made you grieve, but not one good one that caused you allow the military to support your family. Hopefully you'll hang around long enough to be a part of some of the militaries great advocacy groups, make some of those changes, or come to terms with why some of those reasons are in place. Great Luck when you start having kids.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Mar 1 at 2019 2:36 AM

2019-03-01T02:36:44-05:00

I tend to agree...I was single for quite a while I was on active duty, culminating in retiring from the Army.
I could not wait to get out of the barracks. I was treated very differently and did have to work over time returning from the field cleaning weapons and tents, mtoe rooms...Married Soldiers went home earlier. My superiors always explained that they had children etc....The Army is still struggling to try and figure out a balance. A balance that they will never fulfill under present doctrine....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 2:07 PM

2019-03-10T14:07:55-04:00

No sir, maj anonymous, the soldiers base pay is the same, with one exception, and I'll get into that later. Base pay is always and has always been by rank and time in service, more time in service means more pay. More rank. More pay, but the military as a whole has chosen to separate married from single in pay matters because, without the support for the families of these soldiers, there wouldn't be any senior rank structure. Just senior NCOs make more than most CPTs or MAJs in base pay, the family is more important to any soldier no matter what. The only exception the base pay rule is for enlisted to officer rank. Like O1E, O2E, and O3E. They get a higher rate of pay than their counterparts that never were prior service, that reason is because those NCOs would have to take a loss in pay to be promoted. And that wouldn't be good for anyone. As for the single soldiers, if you don't like how your treated being single then get out. Complaining about never helps, or go to your BOSS rep and change your room inspirations. STOP BITCHING, and do your job. When I came 8n, it was the same, NCOs walk right into your room and never knock. I asked why once and the answer is very simple, YOU DO NOT OWN THAT ROOM, YOU ARE NOT THE PROPRIETOR OF THAT ROOM IN ANY WAY, it belongs the military. And they let you dwell in it just for the fact that you CHOSE to the country and swore an oath. Man up!!!!

Response by MAJ James Woods made Mar 17 at 2019 2:24 PM

2019-03-17T14:24:31-04:00

Old culture versus new culture and common sense leadership. BOQs and BEQs for single junior officers and NCOs used to be a very common cost saving and militarily correct thing to do. Then those places disappeared or turned into TDY lodging and those junior leaders were told to move off post. BAH was nice except realty agents knew what we made and ensured rent nearly matched BAH for subpar apartments.
I agree charging soldiers BAH for living in government provided quarters sucks. The same happens for married soldiers living in family housing. Wasn’t always like that and the justification for it, private contracted maintenance, is absurd.
When I was a Cdr it was possible to waiver E5/E4s with partial child custody to live off post. Sounds good until that first incident that soldier turned his bachelor pad into a party house for all his single buddies that leads to police calls and misdemeanors. It only takes a few examples to give senior leaders reason to substantiate their “junior enlisted need supervision” claims.
Your example of excusing married soldiers from post field recovery activities is a leadership failure not a common expectation.
Anyway, bottomline, I agree that it feels like discrimination and bias against single soldiers to include officers but its just decades of treating soldiers based on their rank not their age. So a 30 y/o E4 is gonna be treated the same as a 20 y/o E4. It’s not personal.

Response by SGT Patrick Kearney made Mar 18 at 2019 5:39 PM

2019-03-18T17:39:40-04:00

So you have one roomate separate bedrooms, kitchen and bathroom. Wow we had none of that when I was in.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Mar 24 at 2019 3:32 PM

2019-03-24T15:32:59-04:00

I believe this is an issue in all service. I think it has to do with retention. Married service personnel are more likely to be career.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2019 12:55 PM

2019-04-08T12:55:40-04:00

I know this is old, but since Rally Point likes to send me old posts...First off what the heck did you envision the Army was going to be like when you joined? Your NOT a civilian anymore, there are a LOT of freedoms you give up joining the military, a LOT. Let me go down a list of problems with what I can only assume is/was your idea that everyone in the Army receive BAH and we do away with barracks.
1. You, as a 27 Y/O college grad SPC in the Army are the exception, not the rule. The fact that you may be more mature and want to be able to live off post like an adult where you want and eat how you like is understandable. BUT, look at it this way... by the time I was 27 I already had nine years in the Army and was a SSG (and married). That said I lived in the barracks for several years, and not in the awesome apartment style barracks you had.
2. Understand (and you should having lived in the barracks) that most dare I say the majority of people who live in the barracks are NOT as mature as you may have been when you joined. If not regularly inspected, barracks will often descend into squalor and disrepair. When left to their own devices soldiers often stop doing basic cleaning, they don't take care of laundry rooms, they brake equipment and appliances and so much more. NONE of this is supposition, I've seen it both living in the barracks, and pulling staff duty doing walk-throughs. Another reason that you have barracks inspections besides cleanliness is contraband (drugs) or alcohol for those under 21, weapons, etc.
2. The Army has spent billions of dollars on upgrading the barracks that you discussed and complained about over the past decade plus. I've seen it on Fort Bragg, old barracks demolished, new barracks built and then soldiers brake and generally trash the new barracks. I guess I say this to say... we'd be wasting a lot of money on barracks for no reason.
3. Speaking of money, do you have any idea how much more money it would cost to pay everyone BAH without dependents, and BAS because I assume there would be no more chow halls?
4. Now, there are second and third order affects that you probably have not even begun to consider in this. Can the local housing/Apartment market absorb the single soldiers that under your scenario would have to find a place to live? What is the affect on housing/apartment prices because of it? Will soldiers really be able to afford to live in a decent place on single without dependent BAH? in my experience, this is usually no. Usually E-6 maybe E-5 at the very least could find a decent place. E-4 or below would either be living in a horrible part of town or in a trailer park. Neither of which are better than the barracks.
5. In you last update you made some rebuttal comments I'll take issue with one; "I’ll also comment on the “single people off post /traffic at the gates/get in trouble in town more” line of nonsense. It’s ignorant." I hate to tell you bub, your ignorant if you think these things would not be issues. Again, I think your relative lake of military experience speaks volumes on this subject, I took out some of the reasons of the original comments to zero in on specifics. Traffic at gates; something people on post mostly can avoid unless they need to go off post. At Fort Bragg on any given week day morning it takes forever to get on post now, on days I didn't go in at 0430 to go to the gym and just went to formation, I had to leave and hour and a half early to ensure I was on post and would make it to formation. Now you make this worse by shoving all of those single people off post and you have to leave two hours or more early, not to mention how long it takes to get home at the end of the day when everyone on post is trying to leave at the same time. It would be an issue and not an ignorant one. Next, soldiers getting in trouble. Happens already, all the time. Not a big deal right? Maybe, I think it would be but I think our frames of reference on the matter might be different... I don't suppose you have gotten called by the police to pick up a soldier in the middle of the night before? I have, I wouldn't want that to double or triple.

Now as to the rest of your complaints, I cant park here, I have to walk this far, some people get to park here and not there etc., I think you summed it up in your original closing "Perhaps this is all just one single soldier bitching and complaining." Soldiers complain, its what they do. I fought the urge to just say suck it up buttercup and explained as much as I thought necessary, but there does come a point when you do or should have embraced that you are in the military and not working at Google or Apple. The military's job (in general, though slightly different from branch to branch) is to fight and win our nations wars. Its going to be difficult for future generations to do that when they are worried about the Army keeping them in the barracks, making them eat yucky food in the chow hall, or that they have to walk 3/4 of a mile.

Response by MSG Bobby Morehead made Apr 15 at 2019 6:09 PM

2019-04-15T18:09:24-04:00

I agree with most of your post. This is what I have said throughout my career, even when I was the one enforcing some of these silly barracks policies. In my opinion its a personal decision that the Army has decided they want to support. Sad when an E-3 makes more then the E-5 living in the barracks and is able to buy his own house. How is the married E-3 with a couple of kids more responsible? I always said the Army should pay everyone a fair wage and give people more choices.

Response by CDR John Tate made Apr 15 at 2019 8:03 PM

2019-04-15T20:03:45-04:00

Amen - and this isn't unique to the Army; the Navy follows the same pay scheme (more pay and/or better quarters for married members); and the Navy puts more duty burdens on single sailors. But, it's a double-edged issue. On the one hand, being married often results in more stable, disciplined conduct. That's a plus for both the service and the member. The minus is, the soldier/sailor living in barracks or aboard ship is close at hand and therefore easy to recall for extra duty. Then, of course, there are holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas. Do singles get better liberty and leave? No. If any one does, it will be married folks, for family integrity, "for the children." Such is the opinion of a 30-yr mustang, John Tate, CDR USN (Ret)

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Apr 15 at 2019 8:04 PM

2019-04-15T20:04:25-04:00

Welcome to the military. "Fair" is a weather condition. Single soldiers/sailors have advantages over married members. 1. You don't have to do building or grounds maintenance. If something breaks, the base maintenance dept. handles it. 2. No commute to work. You get that few extra minutes of sleep. 3. You don't have to worry about the welfare of anyone but yourself. The married person has their own 'squad' to be concerned about that they are required to place in a lower priority than their military obligation.
You enlisted, hopefully with your eyes open. Nowhere in your enlistment contract does the word "fair" appear. Be happy you aren't stuck in an open bay barracks, or a single room shared with 3 other soldiers with open bay showers.

Response by SPC Samantha Hutch made Apr 19 at 2019 11:39 AM

2019-04-19T11:39:02-04:00

I was thinking the same thing. You would think they would want you to be unmarried, easier for war. I think they should do a COLA type payment to single soldiers and maybe we'd have less people marrying the first thing that let's them fuck em and eventually divorcing them. Obviously it wouldn't be more than bah but just a little something extra for staying single idk. But I've thought about this a lot recently

Response by LCpl David Campbell made May 4 at 2019 10:27 PM

2019-05-04T22:27:44-04:00

Be happy you're in the army. In the Corp you wouldn't have made it a month. And in the Marines those who are married still have to maintain a locker and bunk and show up to the barracks every Thursday for field day and clean.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2019 5:47 AM

2019-05-17T05:47:08-04:00

When something doesn't seem to make sense, you bet your ass someone somewhere is benefiting from it. Find that and you have your answer as to why it wont ever be changed to make sense or be more fair.

And yes, if you are a leader and you have made an excuse as to why its okay to treat soldiers poorly, you are a poor leader. Soldiers are not toys you can play with and discard when you are done, they are people and unless they are being punished for wrong doing, don't deserve to be punished for joining the military.

Response by SPC Andrew Casler made May 17 at 2019 5:24 PM

2019-05-17T17:24:09-04:00

One of the main reasons I ets'd. I had a place off post(that I paid for myself) but still had to maintain a place in my barracks. 4 to a room, no kitchen, community bathrooms, GI party every Sunday afternoon. That's just the way it was. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up so no real grounds to complain.

Response by CW2 Mark Niles made May 21 at 2019 10:07 AM

2019-05-21T10:07:24-04:00

As a retired CWO who was married for most of my career, I can honestly say that I worked longer hours and more days than most single soldiers I supervised. It was my work ethic that was instilled in me by my family and community. While I never earned big bucks during my career I can tell you that my work ethic enabled me to gain the skills that paid well in the civilian sector... over 100K. So, what is your work ethic?

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made May 22 at 2019 4:47 PM

2019-05-22T16:47:36-04:00

This the second time this question has risen its ugly head. The married versus single soldier treatment. Yes you make less than a married soldier, but you have less dependents than someone whose married. BHA, BAS are different because you don't live off base and you have more mouths to feed and care for. Let me show you the difference from the present pay scale of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s as compared to today. Pay for a single soldier was less 90 dollars a month in the sixties. Pay for a married soldier let's say an E6 was less than 250 dollars a month. A married soldier single got maybe received $250 a month with two to three dependants in the 60s. The 70s were about the same for two years. A single solder before '72 was paid $149.10 a month, at the rank of E1. A msrried soldier had to seek employment at a second job outside the military, to make married life bareable. If this wife has a job they were just at the comfortable level. In '72 there was so much discontent, that the military had to raise the pay of all ranks single or married. My pay went from $149.10 a month as a single soldier to a whopping $266.50 a month as a single, barracks dwelling airman. A married soldier made a $350.00 a month at the same rank. (More later)

Response by Sgt C S made May 24 at 2019 11:13 AM

2019-05-24T11:13:13-04:00

I hear you. For years working shift work in the AF, "coincidentally" only three married individuals worked the rotating shifts whereas not one single member worked straight days. Why, you might ask? I was actually told, because those married individuals have families. This may have changed as it was a long time ago. Hope so.

Response by SPC Ron Rowland made May 28 at 2019 7:35 AM

2019-05-28T07:35:42-04:00

First of all the increase in the BAS is to accommodate the need for more than one bedroom when you have a family.

Response by MSG Andrew Whitish made May 28 at 2019 6:33 PM

2019-05-28T18:33:47-04:00

What? private rooms? Kitchens? apartments? It's been a while but married people could not join the military and under E-5 needed the commander's permission to get married. Thus we were all single and lived in open bays. In Germany we lived in WWI German barracks with more ceiling height then floor space and usually 4 to a room double stacked. BAH was never for the soldier's but rather for the family. The separate rations were for the soldier and their is still an outcry from wives when married soldiers go to the field and get recoupment slips from finance. I would suggest that you take that silver spoon out of your mouth and use it to take a big bite of humble pie lest you desire to move on to "better" things at your ETS.

Response by LTC Charles Weber made May 29 at 2019 7:16 PM

2019-05-29T19:16:16-04:00

Actually if you have been married, you know you don't more control over money, living quarters (maybe a room if your lucky), time and freedom. It might not be "the Army" that dictates but any marriage / partnership will survive the rigors of military life and deployments by giving up that control to your spouse...

Response by CW2 Roddney Click made May 30 at 2019 11:40 PM

2019-05-30T23:40:22-04:00

Suck it up buttercup. How about living in an open bay wooden WWII barracks and no cell or other electronic toys. You new supposed soldiers have got it made. Quit bitching and just do your job. Remember now it is an all volunteer force.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2019 10:59 PM

2019-06-08T22:59:28-04:00

Holy crap, didn't realize this was such a contested issue. Thanks for speaking up and sharing your edit. Good stuff, great points, agree with most of it. What's left to say?

I'm gonna back away slowly now...

Response by CSM John Mead made Jun 12 at 2019 2:58 PM

2019-06-12T14:58:06-04:00

I wish that I could say that I understand where you're coming from and be more sympathetic. On the other hand, having first enlisted in 1970, and knowing the lack of privacy in squad barracks bays, and then sleeping for a year more often than not in either a foxhole or bunker, my understanding and sympathy drops to nil. I know what you say when you compare your age and education to one just out of high school and having to suffer the same trials and tribulations. I get that and would say that its and unfair world. On the other hand, what would you have the Army do? You're single and lower grade (rank). Normally, only single SSG's and below reside in the unit barracks. Occasionally, a geographical bachelor is thrown in. Based on available space, the SSG's may have to reside off-post. If there are BEQs available, SFC's and above would reside in them. Regarding, quarters and separate rations allowances, in a truly Army of cornucopia, everyone would get them, and barracks shut down and the Dining Facility closed. But, as you can probably guess, the Army hasn't got that kind of money laying around, so low and behold, a line has to be drawn. It's not a perfect world and i haven't offered you a solution to your perceived grievance. Perhaps you need to meet the perfect woman, maybe even a fellow soldier, so that you can benefit from the added allowances. That would solve your singular problem, but not the situation of others.

Response by 1LT William (Bill) Kidd made Jun 13 at 2019 12:34 AM

2019-06-13T00:34:00-04:00

Well stated, well reasoned and very enlightening. Some of us very much appreciate anyone who takes the time to lay out a logical argument, especially if it provides a different perspective we would not otherwise have been able to obtain. Thank you for your dedication.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 13 at 2019 9:45 AM

2019-06-13T09:45:14-04:00

Plain and simple there is no justifiable logic for the pay system that awards people extra cash based on their ability to e married or not. I honestly feel it is without a doubt IMHO the last great form of discrimination in the military.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Jun 23 at 2019 2:24 PM

2019-06-23T14:24:37-04:00

If you claim to be a college graduate, why are you a Sergeant in an infantry unit (nothing against Infantrymen)? Take your ass down to the CID unit and become a CID Special Agent and with time and experience, a Warrant Officer. I should warn you that you’ll be doing things that other enlisted are not called upon to do, like stand over a dead body for hours as you process a crime scene or attend a baby’s autopsy arising from “Shaken Baby Syndrome” while people without children didn’t go. Life is a series of choices. You sergeant, make it totally about yourself. God help us all if you have to make a decision which affects us all.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made Jun 23 at 2019 4:12 PM

2019-06-23T16:12:02-04:00

I was in the Corps almost 7 yrs, and I don't ever remember any of what you are talking about being a concern. There was never any envy or "He gets more than me" crap. We had open squad bays most of the time and places where I was, and the married personnel had to maintain a locker and footlocker in the barracks just like everyone else. There was no married men leave while you unmarried pukes clean equipment. We actually would have let them go and done the extra work after a long field op away from family. But that is just not how things were done. When everything was squared away, they left and we piled into our racks, exhausted. Listening to some of you Army guys really makes me glad I was in the Corps.

As to barracks inspections, I've been on both sides of that issue. I'll just ask, given some of the unsanitary people the services get, would you really want to do away with inspections? And if you can't make a hospital corner or think wadding a blanket the length of your rack is a good thing, really? Do you ever inspect your men before the real inspection? Would you pass someone like that?

Response by CPO William Rys made Jul 1 at 2019 10:56 AM

2019-07-01T10:56:29-04:00

This subject resonated with me, not because I was ever effected (was married, or co-habitating for 19 out of my 20 years in the Navy), but single Sailors were somewhat discriminated against in many ways as well. This is despite the fact that “unofficial” Navy policy stated: “If the Navy wanted you to have a wife, you would have been issued one in your seabag”.

I was only single at an afloat command for about 3-4 months, so not ever affected, but later in my career, started to have sympathy on the single guys for MANY reasons.

First of all, a ship was not only a haze gray fighting machine, but “home sweet home” to the single guys who didn’t have deep enough pockets to afford to live ashore. As such, they had no privacy, no peace and quiet, and just by virtue of being there, essentially “on duty” should something happen (equipment malfunction, fire, anything else out of the ordinary). Us married guys went home at the end of the workday, pretty much forgetting the ship existed, and if some event did occur, we dealt with it in the morning... I always empathized with the single guys who had to leave the ship and seek peace and quiet elsewhere after hours, wherever they could find it. They could get relief from the senior enlisted guy or officer who would poke their head into a berthing compartment at 2030 and shout “You, you, and you, follow me, we’ve got some work to do, NOW”. Again, I would only hear about it the next morning; HOWEVER, I like to think I was a compassionate boss and would “compensate” them by letting them take off early for the day, or they could bank the time off for the following weekend.

Another bad situation occurred on a couple ships I was on, where our crew sometimes turned out to be a personnel “pool” when another deploying ship needed some guys to replace someone who was injured, sick, or transferred off without a replacement. Again, the single guys took it in the shorts. On my second ship, we had a shop with at least 6 E-6’s, and 9-10 E-5’s. We dreaded the announcement at quarters in the morning that the USS XXXX was deploying tomorrow and they needed two E-5 or E-6 volunteers to deploy with them for a 6 month Med cruise. You immediately saw 20 guys checking out their shoe shines or trouser creases, trying to avoid the division officer’s eyes. There was one single E-6 and one single E-5 in our group, and they KNEW volunteers would not be forthcoming, and one or both of them would be “voluntold” right after quarters and off the ship soon thereafter.

Having said all that, a single guy on a ship could make a ton of money in home port, standing by for married guys on their duty days. Back in the early-mid ‘70’s, we paid at least $20.00/day for someone to take our place onboard for the night. I probably spent $40-60/month so I didn’t have to remain onboard at night...Money well spent in my opinion.

Response by SGT William Nixson made Jul 3 at 2019 6:29 PM

2019-07-03T18:29:14-04:00

Only thing I have to say is "WTF????" Unless I miss my guess, you are a VOLUNTEER, not a draftee!
And what Army is this? I guess I am way too "old school" for all this - he lost me at a two room barracks with a shared bathroom. What happened to the open bay with 30 other guys and a latrine and shower room at the end? And crying about a barracks inspection? Maybe there are some preferential policies and such, but I guess my point is "Suck it up, Buttercup"!!!

Response by LTC John Bush made Jul 5 at 2019 8:50 AM

2019-07-05T08:50:34-04:00

Well said and I hope leadership takes notice

Response by CPO Joseph Senko made Jul 5 at 2019 4:56 PM

2019-07-05T16:56:53-04:00

It does not really. A single soldier is worth just as much if not more so than a married soldier. Far less hassles than a married one. The military has a high divorce rate, so they do whatever is needed to keep the peace within the family environment. This keeps the morale high among the married personnel. Morale and food is what helps motivate a military force. Everything else is added in. That $1,068 pays for housing or living off base. Be glad you are single, the cost of raising a family is high and goes beyond the costs of housing.

Response by SrA Phillip Pentzer made Jul 6 at 2019 8:22 PM

2019-07-06T20:22:58-04:00

Your base pay is the same. Now you know why you're Army. SMDH

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Jul 7 at 2019 12:56 PM

2019-07-07T12:56:21-04:00

Completely agree with you and that was something I always pointed out when I was in the army as well. Not to mention that you get paid to have kids which is a personal choice that should not be compensated with extra pay.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2019 5:05 PM

2019-07-25T17:05:42-04:00

They absolutely do!! My recommendation is that you get into with you local BOSS program or start one on your installation. Better Opportunities for Single Soldiers also can be 'Servicemembers' when there is a joint assignment base. It is the sole reason it exists. lots of information online about it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2019 5:42 PM

2019-07-25T17:42:14-04:00

It's not discrimination. It's policy, based on a real need to maintain quarters (barracks) for single Soldiers. That costs, and drives the policy.
You aren't entitled to BAH as a single Soldier. I understand the BAH may be "paid" then collected to go to whatever company is "managing" the quarters. Again, the need outweighs individual desires.
You are permitted to move off post, but won't be entitled to BAH.
The Army doesn't interfere with your budgeting.
I understand the frustration, though. You're older, and have likely been on your own, so it seems like a step back. I definitely get not liking the barracks shenanigans.

Response by SSG Mark Stuart made Jul 31 at 2019 6:12 PM

2019-07-31T18:12:25-04:00

When I was in the issue that made me angry was that 1. We would constantly having room inspections but a married soldier no matter what rank they were didn't even though they were living in government quarters. 2. Living in the barracks at the time 85-91 the only appliance allowed was a coffee maker after some time they also allowed microwaves. 3. As a SGT living in the barracks we were not allowed hard liquor in our rooms but married soldiers were. Pay difference didn't bother me.

Response by SP6 M. R. Teeters made Aug 1 at 2019 4:10 PM

2019-08-01T16:10:20-04:00

WOW!! What a difference 43 years make! Back then, a family was viewed as a hindrance. During the Cold War every linguist, interrogator, interceptor, and analyst I knew was itching to go to Berlin, Free Zone-Germany, Turkey, Japan, Korea, Eritrea, etc to ply the tools of our trade. Nobody wanted to play spook on the battle fields of Texas or in the California or Kansas Conflicts

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2019 4:58 PM

2019-08-04T16:58:09-04:00

Let me preface this by saying that I’m a single Soldier. The reason you have to live in the barracks and you have to eat at the defac is a cost saving measure for the Army. The Army couldn’t afford paying all the single Soldiers BAS/BAH. Single Soldiers also tend be a higher risk group, having them in the barracks benefits leaders by giving them an easier means to keep accountability of their Soldiers. Inspections help reinforce discipline. If your CoC doesn’t have a standard for what is clean and what is not clean, they’re failing. Furthermore, keeping the barracks clean increases the longevity of the building. No ones stopping you from buying a mattress and putting the blue one underneath your bed or in your closet, or getting a mattress pad. Parking, married soldiers should be parking where the rest of the junior enlisted park. Married people should NOT be using the barracks washer and dryer. At all. They get more than enough money to care for their dependents and hit up a laundromat. Not sure what you mean about counseling/fap stuff causing people to miss training events, those programs are there to assist Soldiers and their families but not take precedence over their job, except in extenuating circumstances. I’ve never seen anyone miss training for that stuff, if they should be planning that around their work schedules, or coordinate with their leaders to avoid that. I really think this bias against single Soldiers you’re perceiving is more superficial than actual as far as the big Army goes. Individual commands vary.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2019 8:54 PM

2019-08-04T20:54:06-04:00

I just made it out of the barracks after 8 years and 4 months. Wanna know how. I made E-6. But you are 100% right, the army does poop on single soldiers. Its just a by product of society doing the same as well. Oh your 34, and E-5 in the army for 8 years? hahaha you still live in the barracks because you are a single loser, yea you are a loser if you are single that's what society says so the Army will just echo that.

Response by SFC William Fowle made Aug 4 at 2019 9:16 PM

2019-08-04T21:16:40-04:00

The primary reason for having soldiers live in barracks is to have them available when needed. The privilege of residing off post with your spouse and family is just that, a PRIVILEGE. I never considered getting married to get out of the barracks. I never, in 21 years, gave that as advice. I did, however, revoke, with command approval, the off pist living privileges of more than one married soldier in my various squads, platoons, and battery. Your discussion points make very little more sense than when my youngest son complained because his older brother got the bigger bedroom. You do present you thoughts in a very"muddy" way, I agree. You need to also understand that the military spends big bucks on the barracks. They try to make them as comfortable as is posdible, under the circumstances. That is Billions of dollars that would now be wasted as well as paying Billions per year so you could be treated ad you personally believe you should be "entitled" to.

Response by SPC Dale St. Pierre made Aug 5 at 2019 2:50 PM

2019-08-05T14:50:42-04:00

I fixed this problem, I maintained a space in the B's. But shared rent off post. It was worth every dime. Helped clean the shower during the week in the B's. And my CoC were cool with it. Life is choices, it's a matter of figuring out what works.

Response by CPT Jim Gallagher made Aug 7 at 2019 7:19 AM

2019-08-07T07:19:30-04:00

You need to get married or stop whining snowflake. Married soldiers may get a little more, as you say freedom, it’s freedom to be involved in their families life. Imagine if we only had single people join and then disallowed marriage to those serving. I was both a single and a married service member in the Navy and then in the Army, believe me there is a lot more stress and demands on you as a married service member. Do your job !

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2019 9:32 AM

2019-08-25T09:32:47-04:00

Just be careful as you could be required to move back to the barracks and send your wife to your home of records for being a nonconformist or your wife could do or say something that would be seen as disgruntled and you are responsible for her actions and required to move into the barracks

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Aug 25 at 2019 10:37 AM

2019-08-25T10:37:27-04:00

Not just the Army. I've always felt that single officers are discriminated against. E.g. we usually get more holiday duty as we "don't have families to be with." As a single sailor/officer, especially overseas. I was happy to stand holiday duty - I just didn't like that it was assumed that I had nowhere to go or anyone to be with. That said, I was often compensated with a little extra liberty and gratitude from my peers and seniors.

Response by SSG Lloyd Price made Aug 25 at 2019 5:52 PM

2019-08-25T17:52:51-04:00

I do not want to sound harsh, but anyone that sees things the way you do needs to re-evaluate what it means to serve? The words "selfless service" are not just a catch phrase, fair should be almost expunged from your vocabulary.

The Army does not provide these benefits to a soldier because the soldier is married. It's not a perk or a gift. The Army does this because the Army needs to do it .... for the Army, not for the soldier. I will not go into all the details of whys but I will reiterate, it is for the benefit of the force and the Government, not for the individual.

When the Army provides something to one group of soldiers and not another, regardless of what it is, this is done for the Army, not for the soldier. And if someone else receives what you do not, how did you loose out? You are getting everything that was promised you. Nothing is being taken from you, or denied to you. You made your deal, it's the same deal everyone else that signs up makes.

Some of you are going to disagree. I know this for certain. Civilians that sign up for personal gain can't be expected to see it any other way than from a perspective of what they get or don't get. But if you signed up to serve, to really serve. Then maybe you'll understand what I am trying to pass on.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Aug 25 at 2019 6:44 PM

2019-08-25T18:44:47-04:00

Man ! I have never witness more crying about military life, in all my years in the Marine Corps! And the majority seems to come from the Army and the Air Force. 1st of all why do you expect any kind of special treatment when you and list in the military in the 1st place? From what I have seen you guys have it a lot much better here in 2019 or in the 21st century, then I could even imagine back in 79 through 88. Doing my 1st enlistment I was single the barracks were nothing like what you all have to day yet the great majority of us were happy! Free lodging, free amenities, free meals. And all we had to do was keep the barracks spotless keep my Room spotless keep my uniforms in our lockers maintained and in order and you had no problems. When it was announced there was a barracks inspection we are knew the drill yeah I took a few hours out of my time but so what. I reenlisted and I got married I was able to live off base. It felt great to have their freedom But with their freedom came more responsibility as far as getting to work on time you had no control over the traffic if there was a major accident and you couldn't get to work on time , You had no excuse. I don't know but in a Marine Corps we still had to maintain the barracks cleanliness even though we live Off base. I also had the chance of Holding a position of police sergeant I was in charge of the barracks and making sure everybody had what they need it to keep it in order so I've seen it from every angle and I've experienced it from every angle. I don't think the government purposely set things up toDiscriminate against single individuals whether they be men are women. After I got married after while I wish I was back in a barracks we had more fun the barracks, And when I bury finally went coed everyone was really having fun no one wanted to live off base. So I don't think you should complain about anything thank God for what you have and that your serving in the military of the world's greatest nation.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Aug 25 at 2019 11:09 PM

2019-08-25T23:09:22-04:00

Suck it up, we all went through this, you think that because you live in the barracks you should be entitled to live off post get for real, I lived in barracks until I got married, if my wife could live with me in the barracks she probably would, we lived on base housing for the most part until I got to Hawaii, Schofield Barracks, at my rank of E5 the lack of on base housing lead us to live off post, this was in 85-87 the rent was a few dollars of $1000.00 for a 2 bedroom apartment, with no park or playground for our kids to run around, it is what it is but you being an E4 will just have deal with it, once you get promoted to an E5 will open the opportunity to move off base, till then suck it up

Response by CPO John Bjorge made Aug 26 at 2019 9:34 AM

2019-08-26T09:34:15-04:00

I must say that I do not feel sorry for you at all. I could go into a long stated listing about your self absorbed attitude starting with "Back in my day when I first came into the service..."
Lets just say that a lot of things have changed and from what I've seen it has all been for the better for everyone. I lived in the Barracks before I was "Allowed" to move off base and it was open bay with about 50 guys. One common Head on each floor. One TV / rec room on each floor. I was not allowed to move off base until I was an E4 and I had to ask for permission. If we lived off base we had to live close enough to be able to make it to the base in a half hour or less, no matter what.
I was Navy and when we went to the ship I had to live in a 93 Man living space, bunks stacked 3 high, 1 head and it was about as big as a single wide mobile home.
It's the system and what we each had or have to work with. Living off base is a privilege and the married housing is not so much for the active duty member as it is for the family. They have to be able to feel secure if their lives while their loved ones are gone.
These days it is an all volunteer service so you have choices and to me it seem as if your not having to work very hard if all you want to talk about is how bad it is for you.
In the Military there are only 2 groups of people, THOSE WHO GET THE JOB DONE AND THOSE WHO DON'T.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 26 at 2019 2:53 PM

2019-08-26T14:53:41-04:00

I am not sympathetic. If leadership gives their best effort to be fair, so be it. Yes My Retarded Ass Signed Up.

Response by SFC (Retired) Efrain Hernandez made Aug 27 at 2019 8:35 AM

2019-08-27T08:35:33-04:00

I could not finish reading this rant...when do you ETS? Make sure you exit out when you can. Too much oh poor me going on in the military these days and that is why the military is what it is now. Bunch of entitled kids (yes even at 27).
Barracks is barracks, when you get older and get a family then you will see there are more expenses in a family than barracks.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2019 8:13 PM

2019-08-27T20:13:05-04:00

Interesting commentary. Having been on all 3 sides: Single, Dual Military and married to a civilian you raised some really good points. But, you overlooked the dual military geographical bachelor/ bachelorette who is forced to live in the barracks by their command. Treated like single Soldiers, conjugal visits are difficult at best with having to play the opposite sex visitor rule that commands set in place. BAS, good luck unless you could find a way to draw Sep Rats. BAH, not for this guy as barracks space was available, Separation pay after the 31st day? Nope. So there I was, paying out of pocket for a crappy over-priced 1 bedroom basement apartment while still having to maintain my assigned barracks room and all the "hey you" and GI Party BS that came with the barracks. My (now ex) spouse, the other geographical bachelor, because she had partial custody of her daughter was entitled to partial BAH, but because of that had to live off Post where she was stationed and could not draw BAS, so she was out of pocket as well. So yeah, you are right, the military needs to take a look at things across the board. But, I will admit that the conditions for barracks personnel have improved over the years in CONUS from when I was an E2 through E5, so some areas of progress are occurring.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Aug 28 at 2019 11:51 AM

2019-08-28T11:51:08-04:00

Your preaching on the old saying, "it's always been that way". Lucky you didn't come in when your room had to be dress right dress with every other room in the company. And that included NCO's living in the barracks. I'm talking about NCO's being in your room starting at 5:30am jumping in your butt because your room wasn't inspection ready. PT formation was 6:30am. After Desert Storm, in Germany, it lightened up a bit with the rooms. We could finally have microwaves and rugs if you wanted and buy civilian furniture. But the bullsh*t details always hit the single Soldiers. Like going to the commissary and PX to do Police call. Which was mainly used by married Soldiers and their spouses because those facilities were about 15 miles away from post. But none of the married Soldiers did the police call. Same with having KP duty. Always single Soldiers in the barracks, even though they had paid civilians. Then the HEY YOU details right after COB formation. So those in the barracks would hurry up to our rooms, crack open a beer and start drinking it just so that their is alcohol on our breaths. And have one beer bottle empty out to make it look like we're on the second. E-4 mafia.

I agree it's a double standard between single Soldiers to married Soldiers in a ton of ways. I have always stated that fresh married Soldiers coming out of basic or AIT should be the first to get on post housing. Those are the ones who are financially tight with a budget and are the most vulnerable on the economy, getting furniture (crooked dealers with the no credit check, same day credit at 33% or higher interest rates), where they live and what they can afford. And where and what can they mostly afford, that shitty end of town. Then their chain of command wants to hem them up because they can't make ends meet, bouncing checks, not paying loans. At Knox they had NCO barracks. Which was cool cause you had a room to yourself which was set up for two people. But then I made SFC and I couldn't live there. Housing didn't have an issue with it but my BN CSM did. And BAH for single SFC is crap. And i believe at most posts now they are starting to build single NCO barracks.

The cost on the economy would be different depending on size and location. And single SFC's have to live of post so their BAH is even lower. Though BAH is only to supplement not pay the full rental. And we all know that house, apartment renters keep a sharp eye on the BAH and know how to fleece the Soldiers. That there is a huge money scheme (Pacerne) ripping of the military right there. So what your saying is that as an SGT/E-5 you live in the NCO barracks and have to pay BAH? If you're single and living in the barracks you shouldn't have to pay BAH. This seems .... Suspicious at best. It use to be that living in housing you never got your BAH anyways. And contracting to come cut and weed eat the lawns. Is this on ALL posts now? Married people use to be responsible for their own areas. And if the Soldier was in the field the spouse took care of it.

The Army mind set I don't believe will ever change. We had over crowding in the barracks at Hood, COC wanted some of those SPC's out on the economy but refused to sign off for them to receive BAH.

We will always have Staff Duty. Which is spread equally among the married and single Soldiers alike. Whether it be at CO level to Brigade level. There's no way of getting away from that unless they want to pay civilians. And as far as cleaning equipment, weapons, MILES, track or wheel vehicles...that's the nature of the beast. I was a tanker for over 20 years. It is a given that the tracks were cleaned of ALL mud before hitting the MP. The weapons had 1st day and 2nd day worth of cleaning done. Even my Platoon Leader got in there getting messed up cleaning his tank. Never had any married Soldier head home before all work was completed to standard.

Just like room inspections and TA-50. Use to be at any given time that your room could be inspected and your TA-50. I believe around 2000 that all changed to where you had to give a 24 hrs notice to the Soldier before inspection of rooms and no more Surprise I'm here unless it was a Health n Welfare followed by a PP test. And now you can't have TA-50 inspections in the rooms so we went on to conduct them out on the grass. Which made no friggin sense to me cause now it's dirty. I asked my Soldiers which they preferred and they wanted it done in their rooms but I got shot down. Then someone started this It's cruel and demeaning of a Soldier who received an Art 15 while on extra duty to be scraping the grass out of the sidewalks with a screw driver. Or trimming the hedges with scissors or cleaning the latrine by getting deep and dirty inside the pissers and shitter's and scrub the floor with scratch pads and sponges to get them properly cleaned. They were purposely breaking the lawn mowers so they didn't have to cut grass so I got the BN CSM to buy those spinning sling blade cutters that is all manual. :)
I see that a lot has changed. I don't honestly know the situation on your Post or in your company. You can talk to your COC and find out why certain things are like they are. Might get a good response or told to move out smartly. You can always go higher, then higher still. And you can also ask the IG about certain things. Like why as a Single NCO living in the barracks you are paying BAH and then having it taken out to pay Pacerne. Especially since you only live in 1 room. I don't know. I've been retired going on 7 years now. Good luck.

Response by Maj Wayne Crist made Aug 28 at 2019 7:05 PM

2019-08-28T19:05:27-04:00

Hmm tthree comments with a degree why not be an officer? Why didn't you join the Air Force? no such problems. Married or single the job is the same. In ever got out of anything because I was married.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Aug 29 at 2019 6:39 AM

2019-08-29T06:39:59-04:00

Been 40 years removed from the Army. When I was in, I was single. I always felt I had it made. I had a room, heat, free utilities, 3 meals a day. The only thing I had to spend money on was a hair cut and laundry. If they charge you to live in the barracks now, then yeah its not the same sweet deal I guess. I know when my son was at Ft Hood, he said the mess hall was a mile away, so he rarely went. But then again, he had an efficiency apartment, where I had a room and shared bathroom on the floor of the barracks we had to clean one week a month.

Response by SGT Mike Ruff made Aug 30 at 2019 4:37 AM

2019-08-30T04:37:53-04:00

Welcome to Socialism.

I know everyone and their brother will lose their feces about how I'm a terrible person to say all this stuff, but truth hurts sometimes, and beliefs that can be destroyed by the truth should.

The Military is one of the few things (prisons and government schools are the others) that is completely (as much as that word can actually apply anywhere) under the control of the government.

Thus, it stands as the constant recipient of every exercise in social engineering by politicians and bureaucrats. It is controlled by people too incompetent or too mentally damaged (e.g. narcissists and control freaks and so forth) to make a success of their lives in the private sector--where folks have to agree to voluntarily give you their money, or work for you, or spend time with you, etc. The budget is developed, allocated, and mostly spent by people who have proven records of being severely incompetent with finances.

The military kills people and breaks things (that's the purpose of a military. And we know that there are people who need killing, and sometimes you gotta break stuff to make that happen) at the sole direction of people who are entirely the opposite of the values and virtues of the Soldier. Because those people see the military as their tool to drive their agenda--which is why instead of actually defending folks at home, the actual operations apart from training are going around and picking fights in other people's countries.

And the thing about these folks is that they are bad with tools, and don't take care of their tools--they treat their tools badly.

Folks who've been in the military know--especially if you've been on more than one enlistment, and even more so if you've actually deployed--that if you don't take care of your tools (e.g. weapons and gear) it will fail on you when you need it most. So you take care of your equipment--you do your PMCS, you clean, you square away, you stow things in the proper order and securely, etc.

Now people are not to be treated as things--that is the true beginning of all evil. But the beginning of treating people right is the same as taking proper care of your tools: You don't misuse them. You keep them in proper form. You don't abandon them wherever they ceased to be of immediate use. etc.

So these folks who are bad with tools--who don't take proper care of them and who don't know how to use them properly--are also narcissists and control freaks and basically delusional people who can't even control their own lives, but feel free to try to control everyone else's.

How would you expect any organization under their complete control to treat people?

Then you add in the fact--yes, it's a fact, and those of you who are honest will admit it, however begrudgingly, and if only to yourselves--that many of the people in the military are not actually there because they wanted to be soldiers and live the military virtues and lifestyle, but for reasons such as it being the handiest option for getting the hell out of wherever and whatever place/situation they were in; or because they thought it seemed like the easiest way to get some money for college; or because they figured it was the easiest way to get a "secure" government job; or any of a myriad of other reasons other than seeing soldiering as an honorable calling.

And such folks definitely make for less than professional soldiers.

But many of them are quite happy to play politics and do the things necessary to get promoted in the socialist organization that is the military.

While most of the folks who see soldiering as a sacred calling are more about getting the job done, than in chasing promotion points, sucking up, etc.

Ah, what the hell--most of you stopped reading long before now.

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Sep 3 at 2019 12:12 PM

2019-09-03T12:12:18-04:00

Wow. That’s all I can say. From what I read of your post, you are not a happy camper. First, you hate barracks life and now you hate married life. Shipmate, you need to leave the military. I see no other option for you. Good luck.....

Response by SFC Joseph Murphy made Sep 9 at 2019 1:45 PM

2019-09-09T13:45:35-04:00

Because they get in trouble more

Response by SGT Chuck Freiman made Sep 23 at 2019 4:42 PM

2019-09-23T16:42:40-04:00

I’m a vet, was a single older soldier, from waayyy back in the 1980s and I agree with what you say. Nice to see, the Army has stayed the same in my absence.

Response by SrA David G made Sep 25 at 2019 4:48 PM

2019-09-25T16:48:50-04:00

Your overall gripe is merited IMO. But then society, in general, discriminates against single or unmarried individuals. One example of many is as a single person you pay the highest tax rate in your income bracket. Yet, as a single person, overall you use the least government services and other such perks that our taxes fund. Joe Blow has three kids in public school and he pays less to fund those schools than you do. The list is endless and with few exceptions the same issue.

Response by MSG Don Burt made Sep 25 at 2019 6:08 PM

2019-09-25T18:08:48-04:00

Would you like some 'cheese with that wine'?
Were you told by someone or did you 'assume' what military life was about?
I joined to serve my country, learn a trade to help me when I got out and to be independent right out of high school. Both of those things did happen. I joined in 1960 just out of high school and had my mom sign for me to get in as I wasn't 16 yet ( would be in three months but didn't want to wait) and two of my classmates also joined up. We went thru basic together and Electronics School together and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Between active duty and reserve time, I gave Uncle Sam 26 years of my life and I have no regrets. So my advice to you would be do what you were trained for and give the Military their due or apply for OCS, Warrant Officer Schooling or get out, but just do the right thing and stop the belly aching about what 'they' have and what 'you' don't have. It's not a democracy so get over yourself!

Response by SGT Thomas LaRochelle made Sep 25 at 2019 7:37 PM

2019-09-25T19:37:40-04:00

I am not sure why soldiers do not realize how good they have it. I served for 11+ years in the Army. When I got out in 2000, the base pay for an E5 with 10 years was a measly $1890/m. I forget how much I got the short time I was married. After I was divorced I was living in the barracks. Since I had been married and paid child support, I found out that I was actually authorized to live off post. My BAH was less than $400/m. BAS is for the soldiers benefit, not the family. Mine was something like $160/m. I was just able to rent a trailer. Now. I have a brother-in-law, a retired LTC with 26 yrs in. Base pay was $8000/m. BAH was $1650/m., rent was $1100/m. You would think someone who makes $8000/m could afford to pay $1100/m rent without extra help. That all being said, if you get out and get a job, your employer will most likely NOT pay you extra to help with rent an food. You will be required to cough it up out of your base salary. Most soldiers, officers aside, make a modest living even with benefits. Unless you get a great job after the service, you will find that you had it pretty good in the service. Full FREE medical,dental and vision. 30 days paid vacation/yrs from the get go. I had to work 5 years to get 12 days/yrs, use it or lose it. No rolling over to the next yr. Getting paid to live in other countries that ost people pay thousands just to go visit.
I do remember having to stay after some missions while married soldiers got to go home with their families. What I am saying is there will always be issues, but realize how good you have it now a days. It is a tough and dangerous job at times but you cannot beat free room and board and excellent benefits and travel. There are other things to complain about, like the Army paying for crap like sex change operations. Allowing only some soldiers have beards. Allowing higher ranking NCO's and officers and females to be overweight. Nothing like a little fat female NCO telling you what to do, right? I have ranted enough.

Response by SSG Norbert Johnson made Sep 25 at 2019 7:51 PM

2019-09-25T19:51:15-04:00

I served from 1970 - Desert Storm and out in 1993. Personally I don't feel I was ever discriminated against by the Military. In the Military if you want the same benefits as a married person, there is no discrimination against you if you decide to get married. It is a matter of choice. I feel discriminated against by the Civilian Sector. Example. I am hired for a Job and there are standard benefits that everyone gets, but female employees get more than me in that they not only get more time off due to "female issues," but they get Maternity leave... and as a single person I usually get tapped to fill their duties as well as mine until they return. My insurance costs the same as theirs, but they have more benefits in that as well. Female employees get special treatment due to weight limitations on lifting items.. so of course I would be required to assist them. No reciprocity! They get promoted with preference due to women are considered Minorities and are under represented in the company as Supervisors/Managers, etc. All things are not equal in either the Military or the Civilian Sector. Therefore comparing the Civilian to the Military in the treatment of Single Persons vs Married, there is no discrimination demonstrated because you are single. You just have to choose to be married to get the full benefit to which you seek. Henceforth it is a matter of lifestyle choice. I prefer to take my Orders from a Chain of Command that I can understand. If you are married you understand the point!

Having a College Degree, or advanced age does not itself warrant any special status especially when you hold the same rank. The requirement for enlisted is a High School Diploma, therefore that is the threshold for pay and benefits. Going back to Civilian sector vs Military, the same aspect of differences in benefits exist there as well. Except that in many fields of employment, while the threshold of minimum educational standards exist, you will find that a Married 18 year old will receive more benefits than you as well. Again it is a matter of YOUR choices in life. One thing you forget. The Soldier to whom you feel discriminated from, is responsible for the character and actions of their Spouse and Children and corrective action starts with the Soldier first, not the Spouse or child. As the Married Soldier YOU are the Sponsor and obligated to keep your family in a military bearing.

Response by SGT Tim Williams made Sep 29 at 2019 10:28 AM

2019-09-29T10:28:53-04:00

Nicely written and I agree with you entirely I spent 7 years in the army I'm decided I would not get married until I got out.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Oct 6 at 2019 11:26 AM

2019-10-06T11:26:13-04:00

It isn't just the Army. It's all of DOD does this sort of discrimination. When Desert Shield started my chain of command said when the first deploys everyone else goes on twelve hour shifts for the duration. They also cancelled the leave I was supposed to take and I was already in a use or lose situation. I was the first deployed and twelve hour shift never happened at the duty station. My 30 day TDY order got involuntarily extended without an opportunity to take any leave time. At the end of the extension I got involuntarily extended again. With that extension the wedding plans went out the window. With the third extension I had already been there two years at which point my TDY became a PCS. Two more years there and still no opportunity for leave. All this time my use/lose was being lost. I walked that up the chain of command all the way to the white house where I was approved for six months of leave carried forward and authorized to take all use/lose before re-enlisting and reporting to my next assignment. I did some checking among my team, we were all in the same situation with being involuntarily extended. All were single. The married Air Force members at least got to return to the world when the shooting stopped.

Response by SSG Shauna Holmes made Oct 6 at 2019 12:45 PM

2019-10-06T12:45:06-04:00

Look, barracks inspections are for discipline and safety. Quite sure there's stories of finding strippers in the b's on a Monday morning. And drugs. And underage troops with alcohol.
Back when I came in (there's plenty people who will back me up on this), a single soldier didn't get BAH or BAS (BAS was given if they had an MOS that had swing shifts).
My first duty station, I got permission to live off post. With NO BAH and NO BAS. Kept my meal card and had to maintain my space (including being present for G.I. parties).
You're 27 and joined the military? Should have gone the officer route. Then you wouldn't have been subjected to all of this.
When I was married (and even after divorce - you're not authorized barracks space if divorced), single soldiers were let go to eat. The rest of us had to keep working (your choices were call the spouse or "I buy, you fly" in the same time period). This is well before the days of GrubHub and other food delivery. We were stuck with Domino's and Pizza Hut for delivery.

My 2 cents us that they should have NEVER given single soldiers BAS across the board. It makes no sense to give, then take 95% back as "meal deducation".
Everyone else, apologies for the thesis paper, but I felt it needed to be said.

Response by PFC Bobby Baker made Oct 13 at 2019 10:40 PM

2019-10-13T22:40:40-04:00

I know this post is a bit old, but I know all too well that this question will linger in the mind for years and throughout their career until the full picture hits them. I also want to take this opportunity to reveal that 'bigger picture' to all our new brothers and sisters across all branches that may see this in their feed.

Before I reveal this bigger picture, I must qualify my opinion on this subject: I have the perspective of all 3 points of view on this subject.

1. I am the second son of my father, SCPO Bob Baker Sr., USN RET (30yrs). My father retired just prior to my turning 16 years old. I have the perspective of what a married Service member has to deal with on a DAILY basis from little assholes like us, and the storm that brews from the spouse just before a phone call gets placed to speak to their service member while on duty. Mind you, our family didn't have cell phones of ANY kind until the last couple years of my father's service, and being AO he didn't have it on person while on duty.

2. I enlisted RA the day I turned 18, and lived in the barracks. I was part of that group that did not get extra 'privilege' for being married. I did not complain, because I understood that is just the way things are.

3. I am now Disabled, married, and a father to my 9-year-old. I work a full-time job, and have no choice but to have my phone in my pocket on vibrate all day or all night (I often work graveyards). I get texts and calls pretty often. I am intimately familiar with the burden and responsibilities of being not only a spouse but also being a parent.

So, hopefully I haven't yet lost any of you reading this, because I promise my point and the bigger picture is next.

After having lived (and still living a part of) this subject material, I have come to this conclusion: Yes. The Military DOES treat married servicemembers with more favor and leeway, but I know all too well that what those service members DO get in preferential treatment and leeway still comes nowhere near enough for what they must endure on a constant, DAILY basis when their day is done.

I had to share a bedroom with my 2 brothers on a regular basis. Whilst my father was a Chief, he was given orders to Whidbey Island in Washington State. We all moved and rented a home in my mother's home town to be close to family. My father received a last-minute change to San Diego, and my younger brother wasn't even a year old yet. My dad did what most NEVER do; he flew back and forth to work and home from time to time to be with us, while he looked for a new home for us in San Diego. Thankfully, our landlord was understanding of our predicament, and let us break lease penalty-free.

We didn't own our own home until my father made SCPO (E-8 for those that don't know Navy). During that first year, we were having to drink powdered milk and juice from those huge cans. I hated that crap. It sucked, but that was the price of having a home to own and giving the older brother his own room (he was 13 years old then, myself 9, and my younger brother 5).

Furniture of choice? We never got the chance to own our own brand-new couch for quite the longest time. Beds and dressers as well; much of it was acquired from swap-meets, second-hand stores, garage sales, and hand-me-downs. Also, my mother worked part- to three-quarter-time to make sure we made ends-meet each week. We shopped commissary, I remember those days well. We did this in order to grant us little brats our ammenities we got to enjoy: Nintendo, Cable TV in each room, bicycles, ability to play sports, new clothes and shoes instead of hand-me-downs, our own beds each (and personal bedding with our favorite show/character), stuff like that. We also had to maintain two vehicles for the family, neither of which was ever a "new vehicle", except the one time my dad took my mom to the dealership to pick HER new car out; He felt she needed the new car before he did...and my father continued to drive used trade-ins still to this day.

The Army is able to provide that 'substandard' furniture for the Barracks everywhere on every Post BECAUSE it is cheap or donated. It's also because the Army doesn't want your ass pampered if it can help it. The married soldier has that leeway to provide pampered furniture for their famliy if they so choose to spend their money that way for their sake...they also get the luxury of enjoying that purchase whilst at home. I hate wool blankets, but for the sake of standards in the Barracks and uniformity, I'll sleep under that wool blanket on that tiny pad of a bed so little Jimmy at Sgt Smith's house can wrap up under Superman sheets and comforter on an actual mattress. Married BAH is only possible because it isn't provided at such a higher rate for everyone. The budget is only so big, and some people get the crappy end of the stick while others get the better end in order for it to work. I'd rather some get the goods than nobody at all.

Rewind back to the year before my younger brother was born. My mother miscarried what would have been my younger brother of 3 years my junior. My father was due for deployment in Desert Storm. He was set and ready to report in, but was told by his CO "Go home and be with your wife, she needs you more than we do. We got this Chief." I believe if anything out of this post would reach out to the singles most, it's probably this one.

The married ones have two fronts to fight on, and really do not get what the singles know as "free time". For a married service member, with kids, "Free-time" is not a thing; us little shits didn't understand that in our youth. I understood it best towards the end of my father's career, and I understand it completely now, and wish I could have thanked him for his job well done all those years ago.

So, next time you as one of those 'single soldiers' hears "Married soldiers, dismissed! Single soldiers, stand fast for more duty", what you are doing is picking up some extra slack for their sakes, because when they get home, they have their own 'equipment' to PMCS and clean and their own 'personnel' to attend to, and they don't always understand why 'mommy' or 'daddy' isn't excited to be home the second they see them (many can be excited the moment they get home, but not all; some put on the face to hide it, and some stopped trying to hide it long ago). Being a married soldier is BRUTAL! They are not afforded enough hours in a day to be part of their family AND stay 5-7 hours after the day's training/Op/duty to grind it out next to you single soldiers.

The single soldiers suffer the extra burden for the marrieds BECAUSE they need your help to do that and YOU are able to get it done. I won't tell you to suck it up or quit bitchin, but instead silently (or openly, your choice) echo those words of my father's CO for all those marrieds out there at end of formation: "Go home and be with your family, they need you more than we do. We got this!".

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Oct 14 at 2019 10:59 AM

2019-10-14T10:59:26-04:00

I always thought Army personal were treated equally . Single Soldiers lived in the barracks and were always available whereas a married soldier lived in housing Quarters or off base. They were not immediately available. I was a Supply Clerk , Lived in the barracks so whenever new personal reported in I had to unlock the supply room to issue them blankets and sheets anytime after working Hrs. When I became acting Supply Sgt. I lived off post so the Charge of Quarters (Duty NCO.) kept blankets and sheets in the company office to issue to new personal. In the Marine Corp they didn't like for young marines first enlistment to be married. I know because they told me "if we wanted hou to have a wife we would issue you one". I completed my enlistment 4 yrs. then joined the Army. Once you are military Rank is everything. Education, Age, Married or unmarried didn't matter. Anything else is politics. That was a long time ago.(USMC 59-63) (ARMY 63-66). I say this because RP is supposed to show the younger GI,s how it was once. Semper Fi.

Response by Sgt Jmeans M made Oct 17 at 2019 6:30 AM

2019-10-17T06:30:04-04:00

My Response to : Why does the Army discriminate against single soldiers?

This must be an Army thing, in the Marines. Dismissed was the same for ALL, I stood weekend duty, there was NO discrimination, I was just as fucked as the single guy, Duty came first.

And then when I was dismissed I got to go home and listen to the wife Bitch because I was late and didn't call (This was in the days of no cell phones, or personal computers, unless you had a Commodore 64 or an Apple 2e.).
I kept an extra uniforms in the NCO's room because many a night I slept on a floor in the barracks because it was to late to go home n back, and I was also getting up at 0330 so I could be there at 0530 to get my Marines up, do a headcount and report to the 1ST SGT by 0600.

My BAQ (Quarters)and BAS (Subsistence), Didn't even come near paying my rent put together, then I would have to buy my food. together Remember Marine Bases are on the Coasts, Hawaii, North Carolina and California where it is a hell of alot more expensive. My rent in 1991 was $850 or a one bedroom apt, phone and cable not included and being the Plt Sgt. It was Mandatory for me to have a phone as it was for all married Marines, I pay $750 a month for my 2 bedroom apt. TODAY. And being in the Field Well I was FORCED 3 MRE's a day that came out of my BAS regardless if I ate it or not.

IF IT GOES BAD. Then lets add the soul crushing divorce rate, Child support and alimony. Now your "single" and getting less pay than a Private, but I have a place to sleep, I have a place to wash my clothes, Eat 3 times a day and don't have to deal with F**king traffic.

I want to say this Right, get my intent I am not Army bashing just expressing what I've seen.

I spent nearly 13 years in the Marines and 6 in the Army. I preferred the Marines.
I surmise that a Marine E-2 has the responsibility of an Army E-4, I have seen it I have had to baby sit more 18 - 21 yr olds in the Army than in the Marines, and hey I had my share of dumb asses in the Corps.

It is just a PFC or a Lance Corporal are given more responsibility, leadership starts at E-2. I have seen in the Army that E-5 is where they start it, well maybe E-4, E-1 - E-3 are largely ignored, treated like kids they act it, Never getting responsibility put on their shoulders until E-4/E-5. I as an E-5 was treated as if I wasn't able to take charge. Luckily it was seen that I Worked, took responsibility made my SFC job easy, then a light went on in his head and seeing "Hey he knows how to do things."

Or its that the Army is so f ing top heavy, and I seen alot of promotions go to a position, not by ability. I saw an E-5/SGT take on the Training NCO billet and was promoted to E-6. In the Marines I was a Weapons Platoon, Plt Sgt, That is a E-7 Billet I was an E-5/Sgt, I was saddled with more responsibility, because it is expected in the Marines and I stayed a Sgt Until 9 mo later we got an E-7/GSgt.

Sorry I went on more than I wanted to but I am with the “Quit bitching/whining/complaining.” Group. Or is the Army Snow flaking on us. Buckle up Butter cup. Why do you think you should be handed things. Is it this new generation thinking that they have a right to all things?
How about you Show initiative as a PVT, PFC, SPC/ Corporal, SGT ect. earn your way, and Do Not SAY "It's not fair" Your GD right it is not Fair nor is the world. LEARN THAT NOW and you just may become a good SGTMAJ or a productive part of society.

Response by SCPO Edward Westerdahl made Oct 19 at 2019 4:13 PM

2019-10-19T16:13:38-04:00

It's NOT JUST THE ARMY !! All of the services cater to THE WIVES - not any of the serving personnel. Look at the post/base exchanges - there is much more square footage on the sales floor for families than the active personnel - be they men or women.
Then there's base housing - get a wife, you get to move out of the barracks with very little privacy - until you make e-7 or are commissioned and get a single room.
(Maybe I just love to complain?)
I suffered through 20+ years of the same thing.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Oct 20 at 2019 5:48 PM

2019-10-20T17:48:08-04:00

It's not just Army. In the Air Force single airmen were always the first called to deploy and the last to redeploy to home base.

Response by SFC Luis Serrano made Oct 28 at 2019 8:09 AM

2019-10-28T08:09:26-04:00

It's all about the economics and logistics. The system is not perfect but it works. That's the compensation package, don't like it, see yah, get another "job", but don't try to take away benefits from the married ones. Getting married to solve your solvency "problems" is not a solution, it's a complication. Improving quality of life in the barracks is the target. Run it like an HOA and see what happens, no one agrees. Good luck with that. PS. I loved my life in the Army as a single soldier; I looked for experiences outside the barracks. Inspections, make all of them unannounced and random. Fix the room, find a girlfriend off post. I loved the food at the dinning facility, the people that work there made the difference. Quality of life is the target, not a paycheck. Just saying...

Response by PFC Joseph Cuschieri made Oct 28 at 2019 10:01 AM

2019-10-28T10:01:06-04:00

Please keep reading. I served in 91/92 as a single soldier and noticed the very same issues you pointed out. Unless a single soldier bought a house or rented off base, with permission from his COC, he was relocated to base barracks and shared facilities. In my company, we had married E-1's in base housing with all the benefits you pointed out and more. They had additional personal liberties which extended beyond and into physical fitness. They were often absent from morning formations with no repercussion. Meanwhile, we had NCOs signing in and out of barrack life, living down the hall from 18/19 year olds. Never mind your auto correct grammar. Your message was and probably still is, accurate.

Perhaps the Armed Forces does this for a more existential reason. Maybe a married soldier has more to live for and will therefore fight harder? And maybe a married soldier will grow more to become an educated soldier? Maybe they fear a wife will entice her soldier husband to leave service? He he wants to leave he'll have to calculate the $$$ lost if he becomes a civilian again. Will they be able to afford a house? Insurance for that home? Taxes for that home? You get the idea.

Good post Sgt
Have a great day

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Oct 29 at 2019 12:57 AM

2019-10-29T00:57:39-04:00

The REAL reason is that married soldiers tend to be harder workers and more likely to reenlist than single soldiers so they take care of married soldiers. My fix would be to not provide BAH or on base housing for E4s and below who are married. That would discourage junior enlists from getting married too soon which is a source of many problems. If a young soldier wants to get married he or she should get it together and get promoted to E5. Is that too much to ask?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2019 6:40 AM

2019-10-29T06:40:46-04:00

I'm not enlisted and thus did not have to live in the barracks. Eventhough I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm a single officer and the way single soldiers, enlisted and officers, are treated from a financial perspective is discriminatory compared to married soldiers. The current military view at married vs single is antiquated and explains why many single officers leave the military.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2019 7:53 AM

2019-10-29T07:53:40-04:00

I'm a single officer and wholeheartedly agree with your points. Most of the responses here pertain to on post living in barracks, etc. Although I've been lucky enough to not have had to live on post long-term, there are several financial discrepancies between married and single officers that are not right and just.

Some examples: (1) during basic training (for 5 months), married officers got their rent or mortgage back home paid eventhough most had working spouses. Single soldiers only got basic pay, no BHA or food allowance, and had to pay their rent or mortgage back home themselves because not overyone who is single lives with mommy. Some people lived with significant others like an unmarried partner or adult child who is not recognized as a dependent. (2) Married officers got family separation allowance bc they missed their spouses; they didn't have to actually spend the money on transporting their spouses to see them. Single officers who missed their significant others or 18 yr old children or parents get no family separation allowance for missing their family, etc. (3) Married officers received dislocation allowance when moving to their 1st duty station. Single officers did not because the Army thinks you lived with mommy so you ... still don't understand the rationale behind that. (4) Married officers get 100% of their departure TLA (lodging and meals) paid when they move out of their apartment in OCONUS and live in on post or off post lodging waiting to PCS. Single officers only get 65% of their lodging and meals paid. This is depite the fact that their OHA (OCONUS equivalent of BHA) stops as soon as they move out of the off post apartment. So, that means single officers can, and often do, pay for part of their on post lodging bill out of their own pocket while not receiving OHA/BHA when lodging charges the same rate for a standard room whether you are married or single.

I can go on but you get the point. And for those who argue, stick with it or get out...remember that next time the Army is concerned about retention numbers and single soldiers leaving. The Army claims to want to remain competitive. Instead, it is a socialist organization that favors married soldiers over single soldiers. I know of no private organization, or even civilians working for the gov't, that says do the same work, or even more, but we will have to pay the married person more money because he is married. His/her choice to get married and have children; now he/she has to budget for it. Equal pay for equal work!

Response by SPC Steve Bryant made Oct 29 at 2019 9:21 AM

2019-10-29T09:21:10-04:00

There is a reason, but you've got to look at finances from the Army's point of view. Those barracks shouldn't cost more than $1068/room to house soldiers, but that's another conversation. Essentially, the army has to pay an extra $1400 dollars to those married soldiers, and that cost takes away from the budget somewhere else. How many married soldiers are in your company? 20 costs the army an extra $28,000/month. When times are tight, that's not much in the training bucket, but it counts for something. Taxpayers want efficient use of their funds. I agree with BS on multiple SOPs to keep track of, but how are you going to explain to the non-college educated single soldier that the reason his roommate doesn't have to go through inspections is that he has a degree? Standards are not a bad thing, and Joe appreciates when leaders are held to the same standards.

The perks are there too. I can't tell you that I never felt a little jealousy at the guys living on post. While I was waking up earlier to get in my truck and drive in, I would see the guys running up to formation that would barely wake up 15 minutes prior. Also, being able to run 5 minutes to get something forgotten is a bonus. Plus there is a level of built in comradery that married soldiers don't get.

Over my three years, I noticed that level build between the guys living together and hanging out after work. I get it. They would say "Bryant, you're so lucky." Then they would go play video games and hang out, everything paid for except a car payment and cell phone. I meanwhile would go home and go to work, helping take care of the kid, dinner, dishes, yard and house. Sometimes I'd pull staff duty, sometimes I'd have to wake up in the middle of the night to get ready and drive in for a rotating guard shift, only to drive back home after two hours. There are perks to either. That $1400/month doesn't go very far when you have to rent a whole house or apartment, and take care of a kid. I'm just glad my wife worked and shared the financial burden. Bring up the equality issues.

Response by SPC Michael Scantling made Oct 29 at 2019 3:48 PM

2019-10-29T15:48:50-04:00

I absolutely 100% couldn’t agree more. I was one of the idiots that got married for the wrong reasons. Got married to a female soldier in Korea just to live off post because of the RIDICULOUS crap barracks soldiers had to go through, if you’ve never been to Korea, well. There’s nothing to do there but TRAIN! If you’re combat mos anyway up at camp Casey/hovey. So we got married, my commander was cool and let me live off post, hers... not so much. So I ended up with an apartment all to myself, and sometimes my wife would come over and occasionally sneak a night over. It ended up being a place where we all hung out. My new wife and I didn’t end up getting along so well, divorced STILL while in Korea (TEN DOLLARS! Well.. 10 wan or whatever). So much easier that here. I’ve done both. But yeah. I went through some shit to get those married benefits.

Response by SGT George Stephens made Oct 29 at 2019 5:29 PM

2019-10-29T17:29:56-04:00

Your article brings up good and bad point about the Army. I myself has gone through the marrying the wrong person then having to go through the divorce but still provide her half my check because big army said well she's entitled to your money even if she was the one proven to be the guilty party. Then of course when i started to try and live my life the best i could and just start talking to people my command failed me by pulling me into CDMs every chase they had all because they assumed or had a perception of anything and everything. I even had one soldier get demoted because he was accused of messing around with another soldier who was married. It literally took me and my soldiers months to clear his name and to prove him innocent because the two knew each other personally and was from the same town amd went to the same school.

They said well she's married and he isn't but we assumed they had a thing. I made the statement that assumption is the mother of all fuck ups per say my first sergeant. Needless to say never tell an MP the ideals of a grunt. They never get it.

Also i too have seen couples get refused off base housing because they had on base housing available and the couples would complain because the houses all looked the same. Now my first sergeant was a firm believer in knowing where all of his troopers were and where they lived and would visit frequently just to make sure everything was good with everyone.

As far as the DFAC meals goes, brother i got charged for all my meals regardless if i brought my own or not.

But there is a lot wrong with the army but fortunately there are steps going in the right direction to help make it better.....now transitioning out and into the civilian world, they definitely need to work on in my opinion but that's a different story for a different pot of turpentine.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2019 11:40 AM

2019-10-30T11:40:44-04:00

I was single for my entire 20 years. My takeaway is that the Army really doesn't give a shit about its soldiers, single or married or otherwise. Single soldiers get it the worst just because that's what's convenient for Army leadership. It's not personal, the Army just doesn't see us as a valuable resource, so we're not taken care of.

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Oct 31 at 2019 6:12 PM

2019-10-31T18:12:27-04:00

Then get out.

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made Nov 8 at 2019 12:24 PM

2019-11-08T12:24:48-05:00

Soldier - if you are one - why did you enlist? The military offers you room and board at no expense. Now you're married and you're still whining. If it's so bad, why don't you become a civilian and REALLY deal with cost of living issues. The US military has been voluntary since 1975; you weren't drafted, so you had a choice and you chose to enlist. Perhaps you should research other countries and see what your counterparts go through, like for instance, South Korea? Japan? Stop the whining and enjoy being in the military.

Response by Christian Huber made Nov 14 at 2019 10:15 PM

2019-11-14T22:15:01-05:00

Best decision i ever made was to get out of the army. I dont miss the nonsense one bit.

Response by SGT Nels Neumann made Nov 15 at 2019 12:51 AM

2019-11-15T00:51:56-05:00

Agreed. I spent half my time in the barracks and half married. It isn't fair in any way shape or form. The requirements to maintain a barracks living space and enough money to live off-post (with or without being married) is the only fair thing to do. It would also cut down on guys marrying the local whores or strippers just to get a few extra bucks.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made Nov 15 at 2019 3:13 AM

2019-11-15T03:13:10-05:00

You don't like having your ROOM inspected? Your ROOM!? And you are complaining about your FURNITURE? And I know it's such a burden that someone else shops for you, then prepares the meals for you, then they clean your tray for you. That just really SUCKS!

Married personnel face a lot of challenges you can't even imagine. And even if they didn't, who cares if they have it better than you? You should be having the time of your life instead of bitching because you think someone else has it better. Many of my married friends had me over to dinner, some hosted parties so we could all get away, and in the end we all deployed together, worked together, and got it done. And instead of all this envy, we had each others backs in so many ways you in your rooms instead of barracks will never know. We were a lot "tighter" as a unit.

And PRIVACY? You never had to squat over a slit trench or use a field expedient crapper, dropping trou in front of everyone? And really, no one cares.

Response by PO1 Mb Mcintosh made Nov 15 at 2019 11:07 AM

2019-11-15T11:07:15-05:00

Your article is extremely well written. As others have mentioned, you fell way out of the bell curve as far as to the aversion barracks resident. I was navy- the barracks laundry room was clearly marked for resident use only(and enforced). Early in my career I realized the best chance for on base housing was overseas post and I always took those. I’m thinking your comment re parking for married folk would more accurately be described as parking for people who live off base most but not all whom are married. Inspection of married quarters is not as formal or regular as barracks inspections but I knew of several incidents in which families were evicted from on base housing due to failure to maintain quarters. Also yards were inspected on a weekly basis- an “unsat” would have dire consequences. Living in the barracks does have drawbacks but it is what it was designed to be- a temporary condition.

Response by MSG Rob Julyan made Nov 15 at 2019 11:36 AM

2019-11-15T11:36:48-05:00

When I joined the Army in the 70’s I shared a room with five other soldiers and a common latrine. And you’re bitching about a private room and shared kitchen?!? Toughen up buttercup.

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Nov 15 at 2019 11:48 AM

2019-11-15T11:48:17-05:00

Obviously a biased opinion. Enlisted can live wherever they like but most housing is way beyond military salary regardless of where you are

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 12:14 PM

2019-11-15T12:14:14-05:00

This is so true. Not to mention trying to own firearms. Married folk, you can keep them at your house. Single soldiers, keep them in your companies arms room where no one is willing to get them out for you on the weekend when you can use them

Response by Jeff Riley made Nov 15 at 2019 2:40 PM

2019-11-15T14:40:12-05:00

I bet your going to be a lousy civilian

Response by SSG Daniel Rosploch made Nov 18 at 2019 1:13 PM

2019-11-18T13:13:39-05:00

I completely agree with your issues. I've been there myself, as a 24 year old single E-4, a married E-5 and then divorced shortly after trying to get a barracks room because I couldn't afford to pay for housing for the ex AND a place of my own.

The system is definitely flawed, especially when it came to "If you're married, go home. If you live in the barracks, stay and work more because no one loves you." The system encourages marriage, but at the same time makes a joke of it.

I've been out for a while, and I wish I could tell you there is some recourse for all of this, but there's not. You're just an intelligent soldier and thinking for yourself is not allowed....

Response by MSG Phillip Hutton made Nov 18 at 2019 2:30 PM

2019-11-18T14:30:23-05:00

Soldier: At the beginning you stated that you have attained a degree. If this is the case.
Make it work for you troop.
Go officer or chief.
YOU are the only one that can make the change.
Each one of us (Enlisted or Officer)has had to
EMBRACE the suck..
Move up or move out!!
There is always the Reserves or Guard to finish up your time..

Response by CPL Rob Wilson made Nov 18 at 2019 3:05 PM

2019-11-18T15:05:17-05:00

One of the biggest reasons I left the Army was because I was single and living in the barracks. Anyone who disagrees with your original post hasn’t lived in the barracks for some time if they ever did.

Response by Cpl Ed Hines made Nov 18 at 2019 4:15 PM

2019-11-18T16:15:34-05:00

I'm not a great Marine. Not by a longshot. All of the great Marines died/were wounded in battle. However, I like to think that, by virtue of not being completely brain dead, i learned a few things by accident.

You have pointed out some things that are a problem in the Marines as well. However, any time we brought up a problem in the Marine Corps it came with a caveat: You also had to provide a solution. Otherwise, it's just bitching.

Response by MAJ Tom Harper made Nov 18 at 2019 4:26 PM

2019-11-18T16:26:59-05:00

I agree on everything stated. Was a single active duty Marine from 76 to 80. Later on a single soldier in the USAR and later got married and commissioned. Active and Reserve both treat single members poorly, at least when I was in.

Response by SGT Luc Doyon made Nov 18 at 2019 5:27 PM

2019-11-18T17:27:17-05:00

Excellent points. When I decided to leave the Army and not realist the second time I sat dow and did plus minuses. I too was single, 27, just received my BS and Sgt (P) living in the barrack in a three man room for past two years with two privates 18-19 because my unit had no space. If I was promoted to SSG then I would’ve been move into a room with two SPC. We had no kitchen in our room or building. We completely relied on DFAC. I can still remember one weekend they were completely out of food and the only thing they had for lunch and dinner was boiled hotdog which looked as disgusting as you could imagine. My unit didn’t do a duty roster so many late afternoon it was “hey you” we need this or that done and it was always barracks soldiers. Never once a married person was called in or look too at the end of work day to stay late. Occasionally a married guy would step up and volunteer. There are times I regret leaving the Army after 8 years but I make 5x what I made in the Army and have a beautiful home with a pool. One thing that experience did for me was to appreciate the things I have and made me very frugal in possession. Having so little space in barracks I don’t buy anything unless it’s absolutely needed.
As you pointed out yes things have slowly changed for those who were in big Army back in 60/70/80/90/00/10, unfortunately it takes ten to two years for things to change. Because of this many good quality soldiers and leaders who are type A Motivated people leave because they can no long tolerate dealing with a system which is bogged down. Congratulations on getting married and as you climb in rank try to be a leader you wished you had when you were lower ranks.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 8:18 PM

2019-11-18T20:18:04-05:00

Every place I have been stationed married Marines got worse duty. In the school house the excuse was I received more duty because I would get less in the fleet (as a married Marine). In the fleet I had weekend duty because "single Marines need to get out and socialize". Married Marines worked holiday duty because single Marines "might want to go home". I had more duty in general because the single Marines were taking trips without using leave as part of the single Marines program and only had to take special liberty (which of course I could never use because nothing I did fell under the requirements). Oh and Married Marines were only allowed to go on a select few of the SMP trips but had to pay the discounted peice while the single Marines payed nothing. As i gained rank I got worse duties because "young Marines and NCOs cant be trusted to be the duty on weekends, they make poor choices." My first argument to that is if you dont trust them why did you promote them? Second is that's the most retarded reasoning I've ever heard come out of someone's mouth. Talk about discrimination all you want. You signed a contract stating you would live in provided housing, stand asigned duties, and in general follow orders given to you. Do not think you are being discriminated against, its literally in your contract if you bother to read it. If you wanted control over 100% of you life choices you should have walked out of your recruiter's office and gotten a job in the civilian sector. But now you only have control over 95% of your life choices. And btw you don't have to re-enlist, if you're upset about it, get out, its really that simple. My last point is youre not paying a thousand dollars to live in the barracks its free housing. Married service members are given extra allowances (BAH and BAS) to compensate for the fact that single service members AREN'T paying for housing or their own food. I'll admit some chow halls don't have the tastiest food but like I said, you did sign a contract, did you bother to read it?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 9:49 AM

2019-11-19T09:49:24-05:00

The crazy thing I noticed my time in the barracks was that the same NCO that is yelling and preaching about your room not being cleaned there house looks like a Hurricane hit it and the LT that counseled you about Hospital Corners on your Bed is a piece of shit

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Nov 23 at 2019 3:55 AM

2019-11-23T03:55:01-05:00

WOW, I don't remember my Masters thesis being this long. If your going to b---h about that than also b---h about the difference being paid for time in service for the same pay grade. Don't you have approx. the same responsibility? Oh, wait this isn't a union job. When I was a single E5 I shared a room with another E5 with a couple of wall lockers in between us. If you fell unfairly treated don't reup.

Response by SSG Terry Cummings made Dec 16 at 2019 12:00 PM

2019-12-16T12:00:33-05:00

wow great comments, way to much for an Old soldier:-) my sympathy goes to you! I never was married in my full time Military career. I was just reading about the PT changing? I think PT should be 1st. emphasis on mental,2nd.a test that's based on what your job AFSC MOS will be in the military AND body structure and standard BodyFat for a male and female. in battle of course we all are required to do the same protection and defending your position. so if you cant shoot a weapon and physically fight to protect your position then you might not b.c want to join the military. of course thier are jobs in our country that you could do that supports our Military. as for PT pull ups I dont see as necessary as lifting weights per your size is I think. by the way I allways passed or max my PT.but dont think pull ups helped me in my jobs lol . push ups,sit ups,running I know did ! riding a bike No. But your job in the military should be a important factor in what job should be in. just my opinion.

Response by PO1 Edward Speary made Jan 1 at 2020 3:24 PM

2020-01-01T15:24:22-05:00

stop whining.

Response by SPC Nicholas V. made Jan 3 at 2020 11:37 PM

2020-01-03T23:37:35-05:00

1st, for single soldiers out there, Get involved with the BOSS program. There are a ton of opportunities available to make your stay in the barracks more comfortable along with discounted and free opportunities to get away for the weekend. When I was a BOSS rep for my battalion, I was able to get all new furniture and mattresses for everyone along with other building fixes and day room equipment. As a collective we also were able to arrange for more freedoms in our rooms. There area also plenty of fundraising and trips that can be planned with the BOSS program. I had quite a few 4 day weekend trips signed off for those that wanted to attend. If you are invoulved with BOSS but you are unable to get your Commands participation, make sure you talk with the BOSS leadership to see what options are available.

2nd, about the post... Did you factor in that the extra money married soldiers get is actually for their spouse and dependents? The extra money provided is allocated for the entire family unit, not just for the soldier. I, myself lived off post as an E3 for 6 months mostly by myself without the extra BAH and was still able to barley manage my bills. Of course that wasn't my original plan. I had plans to move out with another soldier and share the bills with also qualifying for off post housing as an E4. If that had worked out, I would have made bank quite easily.

3rd, I do agree that married soldiers have advantages over single soldiers with on and off post housing. That is one reason the BOSS program exists to help address the difficulties of living in the barracks. I also think that the problem goes fare beyond the differences of married and single living standards of the military. One, just being pay on its own along with its deductions for unused services.

Hope all that helps...

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Jan 11 at 2020 10:29 PM

2020-01-11T22:29:41-05:00

This is what happens when open bay barracks no longer exist on bases because single service members complain of No Privacy which lead to 2 to 4 person Kitchenette type quarters. Someone has to pay because it is not in the units budget to maintain them unlike the open bay barracks with Laundry, Latrine / head & shower or out buildings for the Laundry, Latrine / Head & Shower. Eating at your assigned DFAC / Chow hall should not cost you anything. Now by eating at another DFAC then you must pay. Only way a single service member can live off base has to be approved then one will receive a housing allowance but to be approved if the barrack/s is being remodeled and no place to put the service member or just no place to house a service member, barracks is full. But also special cases do arise.
Another reason why single service members have to pay for quarters & meals is the unit has to pay rent on the buildings that is within their command. I will use FT. Sill as an example. The land which it operates on is leased from the Native American Indian tribe/s. Before a building is built, torn down and or being replace must get approval from the tribe that owns the land and the BIA. DOD doesn't own it out right.
I don't think single service members over married service members is over work. At least in all my units I served. All was treated fairly & equally as possible. When a mission / task came down late in the day and at the final knock off work formation the 1st SGT / PLT SGT would ask for volunteers for the task.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2020 1:34 PM

2020-01-12T13:34:18-05:00

Leave the military at your first opportunity.

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made Jan 17 at 2020 5:10 PM

2020-01-17T17:10:38-05:00

Yes, when I was in the Air Force, most all of the officers and sergeant's were married. I also noticed the fratinization amongst them, of course they would say "oh we were just talking about our kids", as if that was a great reason. The commander's did nothing to address the favoritism, why, because they were married with children as well. I remember one squadron I served under, everyone who was single was on the swing or graveyard shift, while the married people were on day shift, Monday thru Friday, 8AM to 4:30pm. And God forbid they have to work late, because it was their turn to pick up the kids from school, etc. You guys know what I'm talking about. Can I get an Amen, please?

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Jan 18 at 2020 5:20 PM

2020-01-18T17:20:43-05:00

I remember the old saying if the Army wanted you to have a wife they would issue you one.
In the 80's being in a Cav unit that spent a lot of time in Graf , Hoenfelds and border camps .
The Regiment focused on families not single soldier which was cool considering the time troops spent away from their families.
Most single guys just wanted to party and get laid anyhow .We had very few crap details or GI parties because Top let it be known how he expected his barracks to maintained and our Plt Sgt and squad leaders also knew what standards were .
They didn't want to stay late so we knew what to do.
When on the weekends only time you found a single man in the barracks was 3.00 am til 10.00 am if we didn't get lucky.

Response by SGT Jimmy Russo made Jan 24 at 2020 2:46 PM

2020-01-24T14:46:46-05:00

wait wait - you have a separated 2 man room , & a kitchen & privte bath ! an you still find stuff to bitch about ?

Response by CW4 Steven Bowyer made Jan 28 at 2020 11:44 AM

2020-01-28T11:44:23-05:00

I'm sorry but, "Suck It Up Buttercup!" I spent my time in the barracks and no complaints. The Army saves millions by keeping the young and lower enlisted in the barracks. It's the Army, get over it. If you get married at a young age and move out of the barracks good for you. If you don't get married and stay in the barracks good for you. You joined the Army!!! What did you expect. It isn't the Air Force!!! You get two rooms, a kitchen and a bath. Good Lord. I had open bays and then rooms shared by two, three or four soldiers, depending on how big the rooms where. No private bathrooms or kitchens! You have it good!
Look, the only thing that I can agree on is the bit about paying for meals at the Mess Hall (still can't bring myself to say DFAC). When I was young and enlisted living in the barracks, all I had to do is show my ID card. I do not believe that enlisted soldiers living in the barracks should have to pay for meals. The young married soldiers have to take care of a family and the BAH pays for quarters. Believe me, young E-1's through E-4's don't have a lot of extra cash for their privilege of living off post with their families. The pay tables are a little more generous today, so maybe they do now, but I doubt it.
Units have to be able to control their young troops. The barracks and barracks life is the way to do it. Barracks inspections you don't like. Well, again, you joined the Army!!! What did you expect? Someone dinged you for not having hospital corners? Hmmm. If I was stuck in the barracks I can tell you just what kind of corners my bunk would have, hospital corners. I'm betting you could buy and put a memory foam topper on that mattress. Married soldiers always got put on details in the barracks with the rest of us barrack's rats too. No complaints there.
I have to tell you the truth, that anyone complaining about barracks life is barking up the wrong tree with me. Get some rank and ask for permission to move off post. That is what NCO's did when I was a young E-1 through E-4.
Sounds like your expectations of the Army where a little much and to tell you the truth you sound a little spoiled. Again, suck it up.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Feb 6 at 2020 5:02 PM

2020-02-06T17:02:53-05:00

I only disagree about the inspections if you're married. Those exist when you're in government quarters and depending on how badly they want to micro-manage you, they'll come out to your house claiming to do a health and welfare inspection. To which I told them, "I understand you're my leader, but get the f--- off of my property before I call the police for trespassing." They tried to gig me for that and I fought...and I won.

Response by Capt Kathryn J Hammond made Feb 19 at 2020 10:56 PM

2020-02-19T22:56:02-05:00

I used to get some pretty heavy pushback when I pointed out that housing policy in the military had more in common with communism than individualism we claim to value. As a single person, I was the one who worked holidays and shared bathrooms and/or cooking facilities. My married colleagues were given preference for time off and were assigned housing based on how many children they had but in no case got less than a two-bedroom private home, ergo, “to each according to his needs”. That was many years ago, but I agree that single people have historically not been valued for their contributions.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Feb 26 at 2020 10:07 AM

2020-02-26T10:07:47-05:00

I honestly feel your pain. I came up thru the 80's and retired 2012. I've lived with the whole barracks being white glove inspection ready 24-7, all the rooms had to be dress right dress. Had to hide your stash of porn bc it offended the sensitivities of some Officer. Could only have 1 six pack of beer per person and 1 bottle of hard liquor. Having to do police call off post (GERMANY) at the Commissary/PX which was in the housing area with 99% usage by the married people. The Hey You details going thru with knocks on the doors in the barracks. Off post personnel using our communal showers after PT but never helping to clean them and them having their own special barracks room. We had TA-50 layouts in our rooms, which I found way better then having them outside on the grass or dead grass/dirt bc Soldiers bitched about it.
As far as the BAH and BAS is concerned, your off on the BAH on what you receive if you were ok'd to live off post bc of over population in barracks. You would only receive the single rate. With the landlords off post, they pay real close attention to what married people get and they raise the rent accordingly. So if you were able to get 1 or 2 guys to live in an apartment with you..you wouldn't be able to afford one at the single rate unless you went to the shady side of town. And BAS is only for YOU and not for the whole family if you were married and is only a supplement to help offset not pay for all of the cost. I never left hungry while in the barracks as a meal card holder. There is usually a lot to choose from for food. Though you will see chicken bc it's inexpensive. My NCO's always made sure we went to eat or bought pizza in the motor pool. As a meal card holder, what a lot of people will never tell you is that you can go back thru the line to get more food if your still hungry. All you need to do is go back and sign the sheet. I know this bc I had it as an extra duty before as an NCO. Also in the late 90's were where finally allowed to have microwaves in our rooms because MWR was shutting down all the companies "Red Dogs/Shack shacks" bc they felt that what they companies made belonged to the MWR community and they would distribute the money as they saw fit.
I firmly stated for years that ALL married Soldier in the rank of SGT and below had first dibs on on post housing. They are the ones most vulnerable because they don't make squat in base pay, they more than likely don't have furniture, dishes, bedding ect. So they get caught with that "Special" furniture discount no credit needed store with 0 down at 35% or higher interests. And God forbid they show up by bus or traveled by help from their family and have No means of travel. There's that shady car dealer off post.
I was there when the Single Soldier Initiative in Germany which had its hiccups and we had direct line of communication the CSM Tilley, 1AR Div CSM, at the time. At Carson when MG Schwartz was Post CG. And at Fort Hood where the NCO had to announce 24 hrs in advance of any inspection. No more "surprise" inspections to see how they were living. As a Soldier living in the barracks, I hated them. So my roomies and I would keep our rooms straight and we were not bothered by our NCO's because of it. Just like washing our own bedding and dirty clothes which I took off post bc of the pain in the arse of trying to get it done in the barracks and the barracks thieves.
I actually stayed in those type rooms that you talked about at Fort Riley while there a bit for the Combat Adviser mission. I thought/feel that those were great. Something I never saw in my years of barracks life. Open bays with bunk beds and communal showers and laundry to service about 42 Soldiers per bay.
Now if this seems like I was just wa waaa waa....I am just simply pointing it out that your situation has been felt by pretty much by the last surviving 1SGs and CSMs in the Army. This retired SFC tanker feels your pain. I can tell you that life in the barracks revolves like a wheel. The excuse of Well just suck it up bc that's how it's always been, that's how we always have done it, is not the answer. Maybe it's been forgotten how to properly Lead by the upcoming young NCO's bc they were promoted too fast which could be said about their SSGs and just don't have the experience. With all the deployments the basic Soldiering skills with being in garrison is a trial by error and no ones correcting it. I don't know. My last 6 years in I was either deployed with the Adviser teams or training/instructing them which consisted of senior NCOs and Officers.
Advise....If you are going to bring up these issues, which some may think that your just bitching and whining, have a solution for that issue your bringing up. Bring it up thru your COC and have it in the lap for correction.

P.S. I read a response in here some where that a Soldier experienced coming out of the field after some weeks and the 1SG released the married Soldiers and kept the single Soldiers there to finish up the work of cleaning weapons. My only response to that is...PISS POOR LEADERSHIP.

Response by LCpl P M made Feb 28 at 2020 12:51 AM

2020-02-28T00:51:25-05:00

wow i can't even begin to express how wrong I think most of what i have just read is! I am not Army. I am Marine Corps housed and fed (1972-1975) and I NEVER paid rent or chow. Heck that was part of the deal I got a whopping $110 plus housing and food which could have been a hole and c-rats but when on base a rack, locker and 3 hots a day. Of course free medical, dental etc. I did have to pay for my uniforms, civi clothes, dry cleaning, smokes (used to get 5 in each box of c-rats) etc. Anyway ... why would a soldier PAY for base housing and chow?

Response by A1C Kevin Olandese made Mar 2 at 2020 8:47 AM

2020-03-02T08:47:01-05:00

My son is 18 and still in AIT, and getting married this month. I cannot stress how much this is a factor in that decision.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2020 10:20 AM

2020-03-03T10:20:18-05:00

Being in the guard or reserves as a single soldier during long training courses, I recently found out is basically tantamount to asking to be scr**ed.
There is a regulation that says you don't qualify as a single soldier w/out dependents for BAH if you're in a school that is longer than 140 days and they provide adequate gov't housing. So, essentially, you're supposed to either give up everything to go to the course or go into debt while taking it.
36 days, that's all the course I'm in goes over the cut-off, and they're trying to recoup my BAH. I have an apt, a lease, and they aren't going to give me "gov't housing" when I get home. I'll also have a massive debt now.

Response by SGT Richard Gocio made Mar 9 at 2020 4:38 PM

2020-03-09T16:38:58-04:00

Enjoyed reading your update. Full Disclosure, I was enlisted Army, lived in several of the housing situations addressed: PVT in bay of thirty soldiers with metal wire double bunks, old wall lockers, wooden Foot Lockers. PFC in a two man room in a "Modern" Barracks. SPC in a Quonset Hut divided up - Nco's in two man rooms, SPC5 & SPC4 in a small bay, PFC and below in a large bay. SGT in a B.E.Q. while on TDY. SGT in off base housing with wife. SGT in on base housing with wife and kids.

My general response to your first post is this: You hit on hot topic that is not new to anyone who served, Officer or Enlisted. But, to think of it as "Discrimination", a negative action taken against someone, is inacurate.
To rehash some of the other comments, "you could of had it much worse", and it still would not have been discrimination "against" you.

A breif History Lesson, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Army
Our "Army" was and is made up of Militia, American Citizens, Citizen Soldiers, who slept in their own homes and on the ground. Every "luxury" you enjoyed while in the Barracks - Walls, a Ceiling, Heat, AC, Running Water, Electricity, Furniture, etc. was and is a Discrimination "For" you and every soldier who serves. Every "subsidy" payed for off base housing, every on base housing development built, every housing situation funded by the millitary (taxpayers) in any way, was fought for over the past two hundred plus years. If you don't see that, and still think you are being "Discriminated Against", time to find a new profession. Let me know if you find any company in the private sector that gives you free "three hots and a cot" every day for the duration of your career.

Continental_Army

Response by SSG(P) Danielle Birtha made Mar 11 at 2020 4:17 PM

2020-03-11T16:17:45-04:00

Actually the Military prefers single soldiers. The costs for housing and feeding by bulk are better, and single soldiers in barracks can respond faster than off post personnel.
Cost wise... single soldiers in barracks have their entire paychecks (except clothing allowance) to do with as they please. Bills? Puhlease... bills are your choice if you live in the barracks and eat in the mess hall... put your money away for ETS... you'll need it ;)
Single soldiers are thinking about their next Pass... not their wife and children, and what will happen if they die in combat... your typical married person has added concerns to their mental state, making them not as combat ready as the single buddies.
Are you wrong to complain? I won't judge you... but I will say...
It doesn't matter if you do, or don't...
It won't change, unless it reduces costs ;)
Today... is no different than the day I joined... in 1973.
Change in the Military is like change in the Government... slow and painful.

btw... I started single, got married... and that's when things got complicated...
Having a spouse in the Military... is like being married as a cop... the spouse wants you to quit...
It's your job, you can't... Catch-22.
Better to stay single in all cases when your job puts you in danger... but that's my opinion :)

Response by SSG Maria Love made Mar 16 at 2020 9:27 AM

2020-03-16T09:27:01-04:00

I agree 1000% I always felt like they were paid to be married. I am a retired Ssg lived in the barracks got hey you'd alot told what I could have in my room how it could be used even having plants. we had a command that loved to do inspections of the barracks. married living on base housing never got inspected even as health and welfare checks. I like you still take issue with the military giving married soldiers so many options and single soldiers were told to live in prison but the gates are not locked. I also agree with the different policies with each level Company Battlion Brigade. I had a company that I was in that was overcrowded in the barracks so they authorized me to move but Battlion was not overcrowded so they didn't authorize me to move out they did give me BAS but not BAH. I had to file paperwork with Battlion every month for over 6 months to keep my BAS never did get BAH so I I understand completely. One of the hardest parts of this whole thing was I was a Sgt with over 10 years in and Pv2 married with kids made more money than I did.

Response by SFC James (Jim) R Brown made Mar 19 at 2020 10:07 PM

2020-03-19T22:07:02-04:00

The soldier that wrote this dissertation can either get married or he or she can exit the military. That is the simple answer.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2020 12:26 PM

2020-03-20T12:26:55-04:00

Agreed

Response by SFC Thomas Cook made Mar 21 at 2020 9:30 AM

2020-03-21T09:30:31-04:00

Excellent article and thank you for the follow up. I had the exact same complaints when I was in the barracks fro 89-92. It was why I chose to ETS. In 94 I rejoined but was married. The difference was like night and day. I found through the rest of my career that soldiers love standards, but loathe double standards. The Army has lost many a good soldier because them. Thanks again for your piece.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2020 3:20 PM

2020-03-21T15:20:07-04:00

I 100% agree with everything you pointed out. I no longer reside in barracks, but still recall having the same frustrations as you, and I try to consider those sentiments when dealing with barracks residents today. I wish senior decision-makers would consider making changes to address these issues.

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made Mar 21 at 2020 5:37 PM

2020-03-21T17:37:27-04:00

"If you point the out at the beginning of a comment". Change "the" to "it". That's all I have.
I agree with you since I had the same arguments in 1975 when we had open bay barracks with two squads per floor and my E-7 Platoon Sergeant (in the midst of a divorce and not qualified for BEQ) had the only single room. As a PFC with 4 1/2 months of service, I was the highest-ranking person on my floor (Honor grad promotions in BCS and AIT) since I was a squad leader (the 7th Infantry Division was reforming at Fort Ord, CA, and the 7th MP Co. was being filed with people straight out of AIT for the most part). We made dividers out of the two wall lockers we were given. Each divider was one wall locker facing us, the other facing the next person over. I nearly married another MP just to get out of the barracks, which would have kept me from attending West Point, changing my entire life as I now know it.
I can understand why in the old days before mine didn't allow Jr. Enlisted to be married or get benefits if they were 18, straight out of school with a paycheck for the first time needed the barracks for the first year or so. Today, without the draft, I believe enlistees are older, many joining the military since they cannot get a job on the outside. The single enlisted protection is not as needed as much today. I agree that barracks are not as needed. unfortunately, putting thousands more single people into the area surrounding the bases that are often short on housing as it is. What then?
The only single enlisted housing I saw as an officer was at Fort Ord. The 7th DIVARTY area was turned into the Dormitories for the California State University at Monterey Bay after Fort Ord was closed, so they could not have been too bad, not like they had been 6 years earlier.
That $1,000+ BAQ was four months total pay when I was a private and you could not get a decent house in the Monterey area for BAQ back then, plus needing a car (luckily, I made my monthly payment and insurance for my first sports car from the payday weekend poker games in the barracks) to get into work also increased the financial outlay, then add the kids (military spouses seem especially fertile).
Even single officers have some problems. You got additional duties if you were close to the flag pole and single, which is why I moved to Carmel Valley as a 2nd Lieutenant in the 7th DIVARTY at Fort Ord in 1981. It was too far away to call me in for a "quick" tasking. The "You don't have a family" card was played a lot by married officers, too, often for Holiday Leave requests. Don't forget, officer's are not guaranteed housing off base. In Korea, as a 1st LT, I lived in the barracks (two to a room) with other LTs and Captains married or not since it was a non-accompanied assignment. Field grade officers had their BOQ with individual rooms in another area. The same was true in my Officer Basic Course.

Response by SGT Mike Serovey made Mar 21 at 2020 10:52 PM

2020-03-21T22:52:19-04:00

I got out of the Army in 1986 as an E-5. I was married with 2 children then. I had Christmas and New Years Eve ruined two years in a row by being stuck on guard duty even though I had a medical MOS. Living off post did NOT exempt my apartment from being inspected by my landlord and the housing people. My apartment was inspected while I was in another city for training. My wife's failure to keep the place clean while I was away for training got ME charged with child neglect!

Response by SPC William Wells made Mar 22 at 2020 11:20 PM

2020-03-22T23:20:16-04:00

Don't forget that if you live in the Barracks you get put on more duty details than the married do.

Response by SSG Chad Henning made Mar 23 at 2020 1:35 AM

2020-03-23T01:35:10-04:00

I voted this up the first time I saw it. I only regret that I can not up vote it again, and again and again.

Response by SGT B Miller made Mar 23 at 2020 6:59 PM

2020-03-23T18:59:46-04:00

yup, it aint right. i had a roome with me and another sgt and a sp4. i was told to suck it up

Response by Capt Robert Vincelette made Mar 24 at 2020 6:02 AM

2020-03-24T06:02:08-04:00

The military does not accommodate such things as conscientious objection to eating meat or anything else requiring the killing of animals and what if you don't want to eat such accepted junk food as breakfast cereal and bread made with bleached flour? Do they protect you from having to share quarters with smokers? Years ago when I was an officer in the Air Force if you did not drink you were expected to have a letter from your church showing your religion prohibits drinking, otherwise on your OER you did not conform to the courtesies - it is an insult against traditional custom - if you independently choose not to drink. The last two less than healthy expectations are not good for the mission because they compromise the maximum health of the troops.l

Response by SSgt Scott Ezra made Mar 27 at 2020 2:35 AM

2020-03-27T02:35:56-04:00

Hey Sgt, I think you did an excellent job of listing the problems without sounding like you were whining or being unfair.
I was in the Air Force and we only had to be in the dorms for a couple of years. Even then it wasn't anything like what you have to put up with.
We had something called dorm duty where they made us work at the dorms, but we didn't have to do our normal duties on that assignment.
I hear you though, its about inequality and that's always wrong. I fear there is only one way to change that and that's for you to work your way up to leadership and try to effect change yourself.
I'm sorry people are giving you grief, but there are a lot of lame people out there. I wish you well and congratulations on getting married. Marrying my wife is the best decision I've ever made and has done more to improve my life than anything else. I hope you experience that as well.
Take care.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2020 3:35 AM

2020-03-30T03:35:54-04:00

You forgot one.. Oh, you're single, so you don't mind pulled CQ while the family guys go spend the holidays with thier families, right?. I can not count how many times I volun-told as an E-4 - E-6 that this would be.the case. Definitely NOT a fan of the double standard.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2020 2:35 PM

2020-04-16T14:35:43-04:00

Imagine writing an entire essay to bitch about being a single soldier...

Response by SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr made Apr 18 at 2020 5:01 PM

2020-04-18T17:01:57-04:00

Unless the US military has changed pay and allowances YOU are WRONG! Single or married pay is the same. Married personnel received BAQ/BAS to assist their families. Single personnel receive BAQ/BAS that is paid to the post/base on which you are stationed. Understand your leave and earnings statements before OPENING your uneducated mouths.

US military SHOULD reverse course on personnel housing. All personnel leaving on post/base. No liberty ( time off ) unless granted by CO in a 24/48/72/96 hour pass or leave. Current personnel have more freedom than those who paved the way.
Grow up or GET out!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2020 7:37 PM

2020-04-23T19:37:38-04:00

I love being a single soldier in the Army, never had a problem with it, we had some single soldier living offpost

Response by MAJ Stephen Barnard made Apr 24 at 2020 6:00 AM

2020-04-24T06:00:59-04:00

I think you make some interesting and valid points.

Response by SFC Dwight Appleby made Apr 25 at 2020 7:43 AM

2020-04-25T07:43:29-04:00

You are right, your agruments are well thought out and as valid now as they were when I voiced the same complaints as a SPC4 back in 1982. Some things may never change.

Response by SPC Chad Force made Apr 25 at 2020 10:47 AM

2020-04-25T10:47:06-04:00

As a single E3 I "moved" off base with roommates. It was totally unofficial and unpaid but it was worth it to me to not deal with the barracks stupidity. Still had a barracks room and roommate, but other than storage in my wall locker and showers after PT he had the room to himself and did most of the cleaning. Big push for me to get out of the barracks was a surprise "inspection" by some random SNCO's that didn't even belong to my unit but were being shown a different type of barracks. Had just purchased a large ALICE pack with frame (how they thought a medium with no frame would be sufficient for an infantryman is another gripe) and was mid repacking when the knock came warning me. In the few minutes I had I cleared the floor, shoved everything into my locker, and quickly swept. They griped about my locker being cluttered! Off base worked for me...a year later I was E4(P), Battalion Soldier of the Year, and receiving separate rations since I was attached to S1 and frequently was helping soldiers during lunch.

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Apr 26 at 2020 12:32 PM

2020-04-26T12:32:55-04:00

First off, I understand, you'd like to get your point across. But, its too wordy and no one will actually waist time going through what you really have to say about the single life of a soldier, because anyone who reads this will surely think differently and for you to be a college grad, it would also seem the military is not for you.
Now, what is the standards for the company of which you serve. No one has to read three different manuals to see if they have it right. The army has a standard and whatever they army standards are, that is the standard all soldiers must abide by, no if and or buts. As for living space. Each soldier is allowed (X) amount of living space that is said to be enough or suitable for a living body. As for the inspections you may encounter from your leader. Most inspections are spot type, as for insuring cleanliness and the soldier is not lacking in hygiene for himself or his\her living space. No single soldier should expect to be paid the same as a soldier who is married. The requirement for a single soldier has been met by way of housing (Barrack), food (Dinning Facility) and laundry, unless you choose to wash your own clothing and more is given to the single soldier. So, what you didn't mention, is that because you have a college degree, you are making more than someone your rank who does not have a college degree.
Going back, to the 2 pages you had to write because something was not correct. Often times, when a soldier does something wrong, the punishment must coincide with what the soldier did wrong. So, for you to write 2 pages, seems like you got over.
I however, joined the military in 1979 and retired in 1999. At the beginning, there was no way I could see myself making 20 years. I was in trouble all the time and I'm not talking about a bed not being made. I understand, the military has gone through some changes, but those changes, are not at all any different than what I would consider a drastic change. I do however think, the people entering the military is expecting something to be in line of what they can agree too, but the military wants to mold men into leaders who are decision makers and motivators. I've seen guys come into the military, all gun-ho and ready. These guys excelled in basic training. But when we got to permanent party, these same guys turned into slugs. Some were kicked out and many did there time and got out. Some were the same as you, they had college degrees as well and when it was time to move the rubber down the road, in permanent party, many of these guys could not handle it, because they were use to being carried in a training environment and now it was time to think and move like a team, along with the company or higher.
I will never tell a soldier to get out of the military, I'll just say, think about where you are, what you want and how you plan to achieve the goals you may have set, rather than looking at the negative and not learning from them...

Response by GySgt John Hudson made Apr 26 at 2020 8:25 PM

2020-04-26T20:25:58-04:00

Be glad you were not a Marine or Sailor. Did you join to have the nation serve you? To grip about something is normal, but to make it sound like you were being put upon. Please! We who have what we have are far better off than foreign governments treat their soldiers. Are you wrong? Maybe and maybe not. I lived in a barracks squad bay with 50 other men and each had one steel wall locker and a foot locker to live out of. Steel bunk beds with 4 inch mattresses (foam pad covered by ticking). If we were lucky, we had a steel desk with a steel chair to share with our bunk mate. There are no rooms in a squad bay. Sailors had the same until aboard ship/sub, where we had racks and no desks. Mattresses were the same and the rack was flop down. No one ever promised us a rose garden. Pay I sent home to my wife and I ate at the chow hall/mess hall all the time. Food was ok, but it kept me going. Living in the field was something else. I signed up to serve and I did. I didn't sign up to have myself taken care of all the time. You have to make adjustments in life and do what must be done. Living off base was no piece of cake either. You are subject to landlords rules and possibly unruly neighbors and criminals. You deploy, your stuff is left behind subject to abuse and theft. If you have a wife, she is alone and not so happy. If you have kids, well she won't be happy about being alone with them either. As a senior enlisted and as an OOD, I had to make inspections. I looked for neatness, cleanliness, and order. I went to the chow hall to inspect the food presented for the troops and reported such in the log book for the duty officer and the commanding officer to review. Chow problems were recorded and also reported to the mess chief. You work for the government and the department of defense. You buck it up and make the best of it you can. At least millions of others have. Some stay and most go back to civilian life. That isn't easy either. Question yourself and what you want. Don't like where you are at and how you are treated, finish your tour and head for home.

Response by SGT Bleddyn Wilson made Apr 27 at 2020 1:17 AM

2020-04-27T01:17:15-04:00

Oh boy... when did you join the army?

Response by LTC David Howard made Apr 27 at 2020 8:41 AM

2020-04-27T08:41:04-04:00

The Army says it will provide a place for you to live. If a place is not available, then you are paid your quarters allowance as determined by your family size and rank. Its not unreasonable for the service to assume that a married solider will reside with his spouse or family and the cost for such housing will be more than what is needed for a single individual. You are not paying anything if you live in the barracks or other government provided quarters, you are not forfeiting your quarters allowance. It works the other way, the allowance is only authorized if the military cannot provide you a place to live.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2020 10:11 AM

2020-04-27T10:11:35-04:00

Being married shows a sign of maturity; it's always been part of the American way of life. There are social expectations to be a leader and to be a sign of authority. Even Forrest Gump could have figured this one out.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2020 10:16 AM

2020-04-27T10:16:49-04:00

There are social expectations in the military to move up in rank. Like an enlisted drill sergeant at E-6 will never get promoted to E-7 showing off muscles in a bodybuilders competition. A lot of times lower class enlisted soldiers haven't found tattoo removal and have a stigma to remain in a lower social class.

Response by SPC Douglas Thompson made Apr 27 at 2020 11:01 AM

2020-04-27T11:01:38-04:00

The money side of things is all envy, that money the married soldiers receive doesn't really fully cover the expenses of a family, so most married w/dependents soldiers I knew were a t least a little worse off financially than the single ones at the same ranks. The duty roster and barracks inspection requirements being different for married vs single were definitely issues. At my first duty station, stateside, it was considered normal procedure if a married soldier's name came up in rotation for CQ or whatever that his/her name would simply be skipped over and the next single soldier got the duty. Living in the barracks we singles had all the inspections one would expect, married off post soldiers had no living quarters to be inspected, nor was their issue inspected. GI parties weren't theirs to attend, and quite a few of them seemed to pop hot on urinalysis.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2020 11:35 PM

2020-04-27T23:35:07-04:00

This is a good subject. I would get annoyed when single Soldiers and NCOs would be the FIRST to be picked for overnight ammo watch for field exercises.

Response by SrA Sheila Holmes made Apr 28 at 2020 9:48 PM

2020-04-28T21:48:41-04:00

Because the military is based on the nuclear family value system -get grown, get schooled, get married, have nuclear family while staying within societal norms so that the country can have more soldiers to volunteer and fight and have more nuclear families to advance the nation’s agendas.

Response by SSgt Andy Adams made Apr 29 at 2020 8:19 PM

2020-04-29T20:19:09-04:00

Things must have changed. When I was in the Air Force, they told us in Basic Training that if the Air Force had wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one. I actually heard a Master Sergeant tell that to an airman five years later when he asked if he could take off an hour early the next day to take his wife to the doctor. He only had one car.

Response by MSG Gary George made Apr 30 at 2020 11:48 AM

2020-04-30T11:48:58-04:00

Joined in 1986, married for three years already, and went in as a PFC. First duty station was Walter Reed Army Meidical Center, Washinton D.C.. Walter Reed only had an apartment complex with about 200 units. You had to be an E-4 to even get on the housing list and then you had up to a thousand Soldiers on the list ahead of you. My rent was more than my base pay and it was about as cheap as I could find in the D.C., Virginia, Maryland area. I spent my second year working at the Army medical clinid at the Penatagon, by the way best job I ever had in the Army, and took the Metro to work everyday and never received any money to pay my fair. In the Army you will not always get things the way you want. We actually qualified for food stamps my first 3 years in. Look for the good to great things, control what you can control and enjoy your time in.

Response by PFC Dagmar Youngberg made May 1 at 2020 12:47 PM

2020-05-01T12:47:10-04:00

So spot on.

Response by SCPO Jeff Ward made May 3 at 2020 9:14 PM

2020-05-03T21:14:14-04:00

Its not just the Army, I had the same experiences in the Navy also. BTW I am a retired Senior Chief Petty Officer and had to same issues as an E8.

Response by SFC James (Jim) R Brown made May 4 at 2020 12:23 PM

2020-05-04T12:23:47-04:00

First, you have the option of exiting the military when re-enlistment time rolls around. The Army promised you quarters and meals. If your married soldiers are going home early someone needs to address this with the command structure. Married soldiers should be tasked with duty same as single soldiers. The Army did not issue you a wife and kids. They do agree to pay additional for housing, etc. You sound like a first class whiner to me. You also sound as though you do not belong in the military.

Response by SP5 Hugh Brown made May 5 at 2020 8:10 AM

2020-05-05T08:10:45-04:00

I really don’t understand how you feel like you are paying $1,068 per month to live in the barracks.
In my opinion the BAH isn’t yours since you are not married.
The married soldiers receive that to help provide housing for their dependents, since it isn’t really a choice to live with them in the barracks.

Response by SFC John Queen made May 5 at 2020 8:55 PM

2020-05-05T20:55:21-04:00

I can see your point and I don't disagree at all. One thing I noticed during my 25+ years in the Army is… the Army…or more like individual units, discriminate against various Soldiers, or groups of Soldiers for various things because they legally can because Army policies and regulations allow them to. Command teams and leaders can easily throw morality out the window if a policy or regulation backs them up.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 6 at 2020 6:00 PM

2020-05-06T18:00:55-04:00

It is what it is. Sometimes you have accept your fate and move on.

Response by SPC Richard (Rick) Henry made May 6 at 2020 7:44 PM

2020-05-06T19:44:35-04:00

You make some very good points, That's some of the reasons the military has a problem of retaining personnel!

Response by SPC Caleb McCort made May 7 at 2020 3:39 PM

2020-05-07T15:39:58-04:00

I’d say the exact opposite. In my unit single
Soldiers are always first to be dismissed for chow and at the end of the day. Command says if you’re married you can eat on your own time at your own place. I wish I was single sometimes just so I can grab a bite at a reasonable time.

Response by SPC Ted Heath made May 15 at 2020 5:18 PM

2020-05-15T17:18:14-04:00

I can almost agree with you, almost. My pet peeve is with VA disability pay. I was severely injured way back in 1990. After medical treatment and a year of rehab, I could walk again, although running was out. I got 50% disability then. Now, 30 years later, I’m, of course barely walking, but have the same rating. I’ve tried over the years to have it increased, but come up against evaluators that tell me they don’t know if I’m worse, because they lost my original records. What makes it laughable is the fact that I tried handing them a copy that I have had for 31 years. They won’t accept those. There are bigger fish to fry than just wanting more money than you were offered for signing on the dotted line. You could spend the next 30 years of your life trying to live off less than 1k a month because you can’t do physical work, and have no education for office work. Programs weren’t so great back then for vets. The grass is always greener.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made May 16 at 2020 1:43 PM

2020-05-16T13:43:18-04:00

Sgt. Eric T. You sound like every single (unmarried) military member in the service, for the past 244 years. Only worse because you enlisted as A. Umarried. B. A college student and C. An older soldier. Didn't your parents "inspect your room, expect you to make your bed properly, cook you meals and wash your clothes in their washer and dryer?" In college that you went to, didn't they have policies about you room decor, the type of furniture in it and how much was paid for it. So you can't park your car in front of the barracks. Take that up with you company first sargent/company commander. You were trained and educated to make your bed with hospital corners, do it. A married soldier makes more money than you. Do you have more than one mouth to feed, house and care for? Now you do and the shoe is on the other foot. Married couples in the military choose to either live in base housing or in town. Base housing isn't always the cream of the crop. Neither is civilian housing, unless you're willing to pay for it. DFAC dining, incase you never noticed, cooks for the number of soldiers that choose to eat there. The alloted monies are geared toward that. Chicken is cheaper that filet mignon (spelling), which you will never see in a DFAC. If you see a married soldier or even one who isn't in your platoon, washing his clothes in your barracks, ask him/her to politely leave the laundry room and don't come back. Now that you're married, making more money, having freddom to be out of the barracks. How does it really feel?

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made May 18 at 2020 1:11 AM

2020-05-18T01:11:36-04:00

The Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines DO NOT discriminate against single members of their respective services, CONGRESS DOES. They make the laws and budget the money.

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made May 20 at 2020 1:48 PM

2020-05-20T13:48:53-04:00

It doesn't, compensation and accommodation is different, not discriminatory, for reasons too many to explain and all well reasoned. Don't use words because you don't happen to like or understand the situation you find yourself. Research and understand why.

Response by PO2 Wendell Dick made May 26 at 2020 7:53 AM

2020-05-26T07:53:37-04:00

I would not call it discrimination against single soldiers but in reality Married soldiers have more responsibility to take of.

Response by GySgt Lawrence D. Pool made May 27 at 2020 1:11 PM

2020-05-27T13:11:21-04:00

Of course, this situation applies to all branches of the Armed Forces. I am a retired Marine of many years ago. I was single for the first 17 years of my career.

My biggest "concern" ... actually complaint ... as a single Marine through all ranks including SSgt was not addressed in this discussion. That is: Who always caught the duty on the weekends and on all holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.? Yes you guessed correctly!, the single Marines. Do you think that was just a coincidence? If so, you obviously have another think coming!

Did we not have relationships, off duty lives to lead, perhaps family within traveling distance that we wanted to spend time with on the weekends and celebrate or observe the various holidays with? Of course we did! Our "leaders" were only thinking of the married Marines not all of them. Single Marines were "expendable", so to speak.

I'll get off my soapbox.

If you had similar or other single / married "concerns", let's hear them.

Response by MSG Rob Julyan made May 27 at 2020 1:32 PM

2020-05-27T13:32:11-04:00

Are you serious? As a lower enlisted l lived in an eight man room in the barracks with latrine down the hall. And you're bitching because you "have" to live in what amounts to a two bedroom apartment.? Omg, poor you! I wasn't eligible for NCO quarters until E-6. Toughen up buttercup!

Response by SGT Frank Peluso made May 28 at 2020 6:33 AM

2020-05-28T06:33:29-04:00

I am a cynical person by nature, so keep that in mind. I firmly believe that it is a retention tactic. In my opinion, the Army treats single soldiers like this in order to 'encourage' them to get married, with the assumption (rightfully so) that soldiers that are married and have families to take care of are far less likely to leave the Army and give up the benefits in exchange for civilian life. A soldier that is dependent on the Army for the well-being of his family is a Soldier that won't take his training and leave for greener pastures at the first opportunity. What better way to nudge a young soldier into that direction than by making it a point to show him how much 'better' it is to be married. Again, just my cynical opinion on the matter.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2020 2:47 PM

2020-05-28T14:47:35-04:00

I 100% agree. It's not just the Army, either. I was single throughout my career. I estimated I made over $80,000 less in direct compensation than a married or with a dependent peer. That's stuff I can trace - OHA/BAH, COLA, etc. And then there was the fact that I did more work....more night shifts, more weekends, more deployments, etc. I hated that aspect of the life. I thought then and think now it was unfair.

Response by CSM Rick Cassel made May 29 at 2020 1:28 PM

2020-05-29T13:28:47-04:00

In my entire 40+ year stay in the military, this was one of my biggest pet peeves about the US Military in general. It is the only employer in the entire United States (that I am aware of) that pays a person more because they are married. Equal rank and time in service should receive equal pay. Even if you were granted single rate BHA, it is less than your married counterparts.

Response by MAJ Mark Steskal made May 29 at 2020 3:27 PM

2020-05-29T15:27:05-04:00

The grass is always greener where?
When I first saw the question, I thought I misread it, then pulled a face of disbelief. When I joined the Navy at age 17, my Boot Camp Company Commander (Sr. Chief Reltault) told us that the Navy was one of the few places in life where you could get your pay on Friday, blow it all over the weekend, and still have somewhere to sleep and eat on Monday. As an E-3 I wanted to move off base and be near my buddies, but could not afford it, I still had a great life.
As a married "Zero," I felt the discrimination was against me with the USMC attitude of 'If Uncle Sam wanted you to have a wife, he would have issued you one.' There was little regard for my family. An example is returning from a deployment as an attachment, the Battalion had a 4 day weekend. That also applied to me. However, I had a new Battery Commander (CPT Sansone) who said the Battery had a lot to do and asked if I would work the weekend anyway. Dumbass that I was, I did. My family was penalized as well as I was for being married.
As to your dietary choices, I think that you said you had a kitchen in your barracks. Cook and clean up for yourself and you won't have to worry about the DFAC.

Response by SSgt Patricia Boyer/Rossi made May 29 at 2020 8:00 PM

2020-05-29T20:00:35-04:00

Everything you say is true and was back in my military years 1978-98. They really need to look at each military members age and maturity level. And you absolutely right that military people get married sooner than they should to get out of the barracks.

Response by CW3 Bill Wynne made May 29 at 2020 8:58 PM

2020-05-29T20:58:01-04:00

I must agree, I was a single 1SG, 101st Airborne, 801st Maint Bn, and we had just decommissioned the Women's Army Auxiliary Corps, and I lived in the barracks. I should have been, at least to Senior NCO Quarters, but I was honored to receive 27 Female Soldiers; some of the first Regular Army Females and back then their husbands were not treated as dependents, as were the female spouses. BOSS is or was a Good Idea. At the age of 33, I surrendered to a Lady, and from then on lived off post, til retirement.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2020 11:51 PM

2020-05-29T23:51:40-04:00

It’s either, the military is bullshit or you should suck it up and get out. There’s very little in between. Very few in leadership roles are willing to make a change to increase retention, therefore, nothing changes. In my opinion, you’re right. I remember when our base closed 2 of the 3 chow halls (dfacs) and expected junior marines (usually with no vehicles) to walk a miles and a half to chow and back for every meal, but still pay the $300 A month for the “luxury.” Constantly getting told,” it’s your fault that these random marines broke something at 2am in another building.” If it ended at the end of your first enlistment Id be less retaliatory towards the topic (I understand paying your dues) but I’ve seen 7 year Sgts still dealing with the same crap and living in the barracks. Either way the snarky E-8s are right. Just get out because it’s the way it is and there’s nothing to be done to change it. I loved my job, but damn the living conditions and always havIng work banging on your door wear on you. If you’re still in, props to you and I wish u the best, protect your brothers and your juniors from the shit you delt with as best you can.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2020 9:51 AM

2020-05-30T09:51:16-04:00

Wow. That’s some serious bullcrap. I had no idea show much single soldiers get pissed on, even as they increase in age, education and rank. Still though, I thinks it a strange approach to attack what married soldiers get and wishing they didn’t have it, rather than advocating for single soldiers to have more rights. If the army gives you a crap sandwich And the guy next to you a juicy burger, you should want the army to give you both juicy burgers, not take the burger away and give you both crap sandwiches lol

Response by Sgt Tom Davis made May 30 at 2020 12:24 PM

2020-05-30T12:24:48-04:00

I don't think the military discriminates against single members. When I enlisted, I was already engaged, the recruiter explained all the benefits I would receive as a married Marine. He even pulled out an LES and showed me what he got for BAS, VHA and housing. There was no discrimination, if you chose not to be married, you didn't qualify for the benefits. I knew that if I wasn't married, I would either have to live in the barracks provided or pay for housing on my own dime. If someone entered into a contract without understanding the contract, or without consideration of the terms, that isn't discrimination, that is a lack of attention to detail and situational awareness.

Being a 27 year old college graduate doesn't give you any special privilege over someone else starting out in the same spot, you and that 18 year old kid out of high school are both "boots".

Response by 1SG Steven Malkowski made May 31 at 2020 2:52 PM

2020-05-31T14:52:58-04:00

WOW!!!!

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made May 31 at 2020 7:08 PM

2020-05-31T19:08:42-04:00

Things must have really changed since I was in the Corps in the 70's. I would have died for a room vs. the open squad bays we had. You didn't get a room until you were in E-6 on many bases. We had barracks inspections almost every day. Not clean enough for the inspector? Everyone stayed to clean up that night...including those living off base. Duty? Married or not, everyone got duty and if you were assigned, you stood it unless you paid someone else to stand it for you. (That was a good extra source of income for me! I was in demand many weekends and holidays, especially Christmas time.)

Yeah, the food wasn't the greatest all the time but it was OK. It kept you fed. Those on COMRATS (Commuted rations as we called it back in the day) only got around $60.00 per month (I know, things were cheaper back then) but that wasn't enough to keep you fed by any means. COMRATS were no bargan, the mess hall was even if you felt like you were going to barf sometimes when you left!

You were right about pulling someone from the barracks for duty if whoever wasn't there didn't show up, but believe me, they paid for it unless they could PROVE one hell of a good reason (like they went to the emergency room) with office hours (Article 15) for being AWOL. On top of the fine they also had to stand your next duty to make up for it. I remember having to pull the barracks duty NCO's duty once. The Sergeant got fined but they made him a deal, he could either stand duty every weekend, both Saturday and Sunday for a month or the company commander was going to send the charges to the battalion level where he could lose a stripe plus the fine. As you might guess, it wasn't his first time but it was the first time with this company commander. He stood the weekend duties and never missed a duty again!

Parking? I agree that is messed up and a bunch of bullcrap.

I can't really say I felt discriminated against being single so things must have really changed over the decades. Just remember though, no matter how bad you think have it, it could be worse!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2020 10:51 AM

2020-06-01T10:51:31-04:00

You are a college graduate. Perhaps you should have chosen the Officer Route instead of enlisted. However, if you are planning to make the Army a career, your enlisted time will serve you well. Military life is mostly a young man's life. Meaning 17-18yr old straight out of high school. As such, discipline and structure are emphasized during your early years. I was a not so young enlisted once, at 21yrs old PFC in the Marines, my squad leader was younger than me, and I was stuck living in barracks. Not fair? Life is not fair either, this is the military life, it is not for everyone. Many head-games are played, perhaps you understand it now, but having young soldiers living in barracks does serve a purpose, it is the place where you get molded as a responsible young adult, by providing you a semi-control environment in which to learn, make mistakes, and learn from them. Should you make similar types of mistakes out in civilian life, the consequences might be much higher. Again, you are older and a college graduate, the implication here is that you are already molded and do not need this experience. Unfortunately, that is a decision you made, look at the bright side, once you make SGT you can drop your Green to Gold or a direct commission request or OCS. My advice, embrace the experience, learn and perhaps one day when you are a General you can make changes to policies

Response by CPT Marvin Wolf made Jun 1 at 2020 12:43 PM

2020-06-01T12:43:55-04:00

There is an exception to that generalization. On overseas tours, especially short tours, if you bring your wife and almost nobody else has a wife in-country, you are not appreciated if you miss any of the officers' happy hours, or if you and your wife don't go to Sunday Morning chapel because you happen not to be a Christian. Then you are expected to work more and get a lot of weekend duty.

Response by SGT Dan Theman made Jun 1 at 2020 12:54 PM

2020-06-01T12:54:21-04:00

Dude....two words
WELL STATED.

Response by SSG Michael Doolittle made Jun 1 at 2020 3:24 PM

2020-06-01T15:24:52-04:00

Well, at least you do not have unplanned layoff's or downsizing, or corporate buy outs and force reductions in staff.... The military is much different today than when I was separated in 1970 after 8 years.... But no matter how or why we do things, just know that we all owe a great deal to those who do serve.... Thanks

Response by PO2 David Davidson made Jun 2 at 2020 12:59 AM

2020-06-02T00:59:27-04:00

I know I'm old. And I used to hate it when old timers would say the sort of things I am about to say, but..... When I was in (back when Noah was a Boatswains Mate), and living in BEQ (Bachelor's Enlisted Quarters), it was an almost open bay concept. There were two 3/4 height walls that formed a passageway down the center. Then each side was divided into sections. Each section had 4 two tier bunks and 8 lockers. We had a communal shower and head. We also had a communal rec area, where there was a TV, a pool table, a snack machine, a drink machine and a beer machine. (Okay, we had a beer machine and that made up for a lot.) When I made E-5, I got an upgrade. It was an 8X12 room with a single bunk and a double locker. But we still had to use the communal facilities. And you say where you live you have your own room, that has a kitchen and and a common head. Man I am glad you have improvements. But it's not what I would call a barracks. But, hey, like I say I'm an old guy and you could probably give a shit less.

Response by PO3 Randy Walker made Jun 3 at 2020 7:33 AM

2020-06-03T07:33:36-04:00

When you are a lower rank you should not have a wife and children anyway because you're not making enough money. Primarily for enlisted. Soldier who's responsible enough to maintain a family is obviously always going to be more important. This is because children are the future and you need to let father go to be a father. It will also inspire another military member to marry and have children and teach him the values of the Constitution of the United States of America. If you can't do that you are pretty much worthless to the future of this country. Please keep in mind that's not an insult, you are probably very important now oh, but you are doing nothing for the future. That's what's up in a nutshell and it's justified and you shouldn't b**** about it do your job like they taught you. Thanks to all you are serving and who have served we all owe you our lives and our way of life!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2020 6:59 PM

2020-06-03T18:59:31-04:00

What's interesting, is when you are married you receive more money and benefits so its sorta encouraged that you get married if you have a domestic partner. When you're welfare of any other social programs its encouraged that you remain single so you can get more money and stay eligiblw.

Response by PVT Rocky Susshine made Jun 5 at 2020 6:18 AM

2020-06-05T06:18:44-04:00

Thank you for your posting. Well said.

Response by PO1 Richard Mecom made Jun 25 at 2020 8:52 AM

2020-06-25T08:52:51-04:00

Put your big boy pants and grow up. If you are and officer show it.

Response by CPT Richard Price made Jun 25 at 2020 3:35 PM

2020-06-25T15:35:22-04:00

Honestly, what did this guy think he was volunteering for?

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Jun 26 at 2020 1:16 PM

2020-06-26T13:16:02-04:00

I have never had an inspection I NEVER knew was coming! At 27, you should've never failed. Inspections are necessary. The history of armies is that more are lost to sanitation and hygiene than combat. Hate to be brief, but other obligations call. If you think being single is hard in the military, try having a family. Base housing is your spouse's worst nightmare when you have kids. Talk to a multi kid parent who had base housing what it's like trying to clear for your next posting.

Response by SSG Robert Spear made Jun 26 at 2020 3:25 PM

2020-06-26T15:25:58-04:00

I find this to be a complete and total case of hurt feelings. I distinctly remember how effective the BOSS program was at getting single Soldiers out of work at reasonable hours, while us married guys stayed at the shop until well past 1800 on most nights. We got shorter lunches because we were expected to bring our lunches from home. Single Soldiers got multiple days off to attend BOSS events while we held down the fort.

Response by TSgt Richard Zikowitz made Jun 26 at 2020 5:46 PM

2020-06-26T17:46:26-04:00

I went into the Air Force in 1950 with $80,00 a month and bunk ina room with 40 other guys. What would think of army life then?

Response by TSgt James Warfield made Jun 27 at 2020 9:05 PM

2020-06-27T21:05:15-04:00

I find this a very good question. That still hasn't been answered for decades. I was in the USAF for 20 years. 1974 - 1994 I never married. I can tell you single people were treated differently then married during that time as well. What got me was living on base in the Dorm. If you were single one had weekly or even daily inspections. However someone married who lived in base housing never got a weekly or daily room inspection. Example single person get's up late no time to make bed, empty trash or tidy things up. Rushes to work so as not to be late, yet gets written up and sometimes disciplinary action. Married person living on base in base housing gets up late also and rushes to work. Does not have to worry about getting their quarters inspected and written up for not making their bed, or tiding up.
Also, work details, more then often a single person would be required or guilt into working Holidays so married could have off with family. Single people had family, parents, siblings or if in a relationship, that was their family. So I see things have not changed.

Then there is the difference in pay, as well as the dinning issue. Like the author who started this discussion said, if one missed a meal then it was out of one's own pocket, this was specially unfair on weekends as if a single person wanted to go on trip or be gone for the day, they missed meals at the Dinning Hall, that money was never reimbursed.
I also agree with the author as those who are no longer in, things have changed. One big changed is single people seem to me more mature then when I was in.

Response by Sgt David Gardener made Jun 28 at 2020 3:09 PM

2020-06-28T15:09:49-04:00

I agree with you and your arguing points. Keep up the good work!
David Gardener USMC 1966-1967

Response by PO1 Dee Lee made Jun 28 at 2020 5:07 PM

2020-06-28T17:07:00-04:00

I was single most of my service. When it came to holidays I found they tried to pressure the single people into volunteer to stand the watch on holidays so the married sailors could be home with their families. I didn’t have a husband or children but I still had family.

Response by Kathlean Keesler made Jun 28 at 2020 10:10 PM

2020-06-28T22:10:55-04:00

As a civilian, thanks cuz I had no freaking knowing relative to what you have bravely shared. GOD bless you and yours. Woodstock generation granny Kate

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2020 10:31 PM

2020-06-28T22:31:34-04:00

Thank you for posting this. As a reservist I was not aware of this double standard

Response by SrA Richard Harvey made Jun 30 at 2020 1:58 AM

2020-06-30T01:58:57-04:00

That is the same crap I had to put up with in the Air Force (65-69) My same bitches, why should single NCOs have to stand inspections, (barracks and open locker) that lesser grades (married) do not have to. Also being forced to live in the barracks, I was forced to live with room mates I did not get along with. And the drunks coming in at all hours yelling and waking us up really sucked. Dating was also against us. At tech school a WAF and Airman were caught using the squadron dumpster to get some alone space at Shepard AFB in Wichita Falls Tx.

They try to improve reenlistments, this is the biggest reason I had NOT to re-up! And the chow hall at Paine Field Wash. only served greasy cold cuts on Sundays.

Response by SPC Ray Blaylock made Jun 30 at 2020 11:22 AM

2020-06-30T11:22:33-04:00

I dont recall it being this way back in the 80s I was in Germany and was married living off bass and I stayed as long as anyone else cleaning our m16s and track vehicles we could not leave the bass till all was done . And I even recall one of my tops telling me if the army wanted me to have a wife they would have issued me one.

Response by SSG Scott Pell made Jun 30 at 2020 1:49 PM

2020-06-30T13:49:20-04:00

Yep.
Single soldiers get a raw deal.

Just think, if you were married and bought a house the with a 20-year mortgage on the day you reported to basic training, the Army would have gifted you a free house by the time you retired at 20 years.
If you stayed single all that time, no retirement house for you.

They have fixed it now, but when I signed op in 1990, BAS was about $7.50 per day.
Breakfast was $.90 and lunch and dinner were $1.80.
That meant someone on BAS could come into the DFAC and for $4.50, eat the same breakfast, lunch, and dinner that I did as a meal card holder and at the end of the day pocket $3.00 (or $90 monthly, $1080 annually).

Response by PFC Nathan Stoughton made Jul 1 at 2020 3:35 AM

2020-07-01T03:35:41-04:00

Haha wow. Just noticed the date on this.
Anyways as a single my opinion about married vs single folk seemed to be the true intentional devide between classes in the active service because married folk were on another level. single were the disposable labor more or less whenever and wherever convenient. We were the ones living in the barracks that had been condemned for about 20 years already with severe plumbing issues.
The married folk need to go home and attend their families mow their lawns to spec etc. I am not mad at them. Its just what it is. And pragmatically when it comes right down to it, a single low rank enlisted soldier has extremely high attrition. But a married person. Now there is someone with tons more retention value. Its what it is. I don't hate the player or the game much even. It makes perfect sense. You enlist to serve. The service itself has pressure that ends up guiding its decisions, such as congress issuing a limited amount of waivers for promotions etc. Some of these issues have a trickle down effect. But hell, its an army. We have much bigger things to deal with in this world than our creature comforts. I think if thats what you are focused on I can almost predict you are one of those Joes that can occasionally be heard muttering 'something something...shoulda joined the airforce'

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2020 10:54 AM

2020-07-01T10:54:15-04:00

Sgt. I understand what you're saying and completely agree with it. It really is no different in the (make fun of if you want) Air Force w/o some of the parking issues. I believe the barracks inspection is less often but other than than, I feel you're spot on with your concern!

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jul 1 at 2020 11:43 AM

2020-07-01T11:43:41-04:00

Simple solution, get married to someone that will have you. Problem solved

Response by TSgt Michael Z Williamson made Jul 2 at 2020 6:21 PM

2020-07-02T18:21:22-04:00

I remember an exercise where we were fielding during the day but using barracks/home at night. So they stuck all the single troops on night shift so married people could "be with their families."

So, 0400 recall, spend all day mobing and pitching bivouac, THEN duty all night while the married people went back to housing, and the last day, up all night, then up all day while doing teardown/weapons cleaning/stowage.

And of course, family days where the single troops have little to do other than stand around (unless the unit planned to take them into account).

Married 30 years now, btw. I still think that is unfair to the singles.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 7:50 PM

2020-07-02T19:50:21-04:00

I 1000% agree with you. Why is an NCO in the barracks not trusted with a toaster, but a married private out of high school allowed to keep guns in his house. Don’t get me wrong, I think every soldier should be able to keep their guns with them and carry freely on post, but no one can provide a solid argument as to why being married automatically bestowed upon you maturity that 4+ years in the service doesn’t.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Jul 6 at 2020 2:27 PM

2020-07-06T14:27:39-04:00

Well as a E-9 I can say that having a family on E-4 pay is very hard and leads to many hardships and divorces . Advice wait and remember single people also take it in the shorts in the real world under the IRS . As a young G.I our D.I's would say soldier if the Army want you to have a wife they would have issued you one .

Response by Robert Harris made Jul 6 at 2020 2:53 PM

2020-07-06T14:53:22-04:00

It's simple enough the Army is a Family Orientated Ops; they consider Lone Wolves to undermine the unity of the unit for personal Glory, that's why single enlisted soldiers are targeted.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made Jul 6 at 2020 10:50 PM

2020-07-06T22:50:14-04:00

Hey do you use your argument against you but the same concept and or theory that you used about you didn’t wanna hear that you got married and they didn’t have a job so that’s what you got into knowing Lee, ditto nobody signed your hand writing and nobody forced your hand on that pin. Any questions you had very easily can be looked up on Google or even ask other soldiers. Being a prior infantry an NCO yourself you should know more than enough people they can tell you the information. As a prior enlisted and officers myself I can tell you that yeah there are pros and cons that come with the pay and the rank in the housing etc. however I will tell you Hey do use your argument against you but the same concept and or theory that you used about you didn’t want to hear that you got married and they didn’t have a job so that’s what you got into knowing Lee, ditto nobody signed your handwriting and nobody forced your hand on that pin. Any questions you had very easily can be looked up on Google or even ask other soldiers. Being a prior infantry NCO yourself you should know more than enough people they can tell you the information. As a prior enlisted and officers myself I can tell you that yeah there are pros and cons that come with the pay and the rank and the housing etc. however I will tell you That is in your eyes and your mind the only issues or some of the major issues that you see, at your level, or issues pertaining to I don’t get to have my own mattress in my Barricks that I’m essentially paying for and the defect gives us shitty food will not sure what to tell you on that one because again you could ask and find out and see what’s what prior to signing up. As far as persons being married and or single and not getting a choice where they live, I guarantee you there are countless persons on here they can tell you that being married they also we’re not giving a choice as to where to live.
as a need for I used to complain and bitch a question and wonder what the hell we were doing, while we were doing it and none of it logically made any sense to me whatsoever. Step forward many years as a platoon leader then commander and then battalion staff officer and I will tell you the crap I worried about then mitt nothing compared to the crap I had to worry about and deal with on a daily basis with an O in front of my rank. And granted yes I took myself and put myself through Accelerated OCS because I did that my self because I knew what I was going to be calm and what I was gonna do with my career so I made a choice and I assumed those responsibilities even has a key for not knowing what they would be high automatically took that step and assumed I would never look back. I can tell you if you have that to complain about with your laundry, go to Kuwait, go to some places in Iraq go to some places in Afghanistan and you’ll be lucky if your clothes are even still there let alone throw it in the floor or thrown on top of the dryer or anything else. You put the crap in there you’re responsible accelerated OCS because I did that I self because I knew what I was going to be calm and what I was going to do with my career so I made a choice and I assumed those responsibilities even has a key for not knowing what they would be I automatically took that step and assumed I would never look back. I can tell you if you have that to complain about with your laundry, go to Kuwait, go to some places in Iraq go to some places in Afghanistan and you’ll be lucky if your clothes are even still there let alone thrown in the floor or thrown on top of the dryer or anything else. You put the crap in there you’re responsible for the crab case closed. Should somebody have the right to throw it away, no I completely agree with you however again you put it in there, you take it out you are a soldier with a college level education so that concepts should not be complicated for you. Between mobilizing between hurricanes between multiple deployments even as going back overseas as a contractor the same hell true when it came to my property and my equipment. Ultimately it was My responsibility and mine alone.
As for your argument pertaining to Mary persons and thinking about home or whatever sort of inspection, how about this for a wife in there that’s pissed off and doesn’t feel like cleaning up because she had a shitty day at work, also go ahead and throw one too or make it even better three kids in there or for like myself and see how that works out because they won’t clean up jack shit. Do you think privates are bad, LMFAO you have not seen anything and less you’re messing with multiple young children so is that soldier also to get dinged because their pellets are not clean to the staff NCOs in As for your argument pertaining to married persons and thinking about home or whatever sort of inspection, how about this throw wife in there that’s pissed off and doesn’t feel like cleaning up because she had a shitty day at work, also go ahead and throw one too or make it even better three kids in there or for like myself and see how that works out because they won’t clean up Jack shit. If you think privates are bad, LMFAO you have not seen anything unless you’re messing with multiple young children, so is that soldier also to get dinged because their billets are not clean to the SSG and or NCO’s Specifications? Do you like getting dinged for crap that takes place in your barracks that you used to hate? Probably not. Ultimately I assure you with 100% probability you will find way way way more crap to bitch about then BAH differences or being able to budget for your diet etc. if you intend on staying in, trust me the headaches will keep rolling and you’re gonna look back and go What I used to bitch about wasn’t anything compared to what I’ve got to deal with now. Once you make it in to the leader ship NCO position where you are now telling staff sergeants when inspections will take place or you are the E6 or E-7 thats standing there with the CSM while he’s doing inspection and you get your ass tore into because soldiers didn’t do the simplistic things they were told to do.
Either way, I hope you’re able to resolve your issues and get the most out of the Army because they WILL get it out of you. Take care.

Talk to text disclaimer lol.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Jul 23 at 2020 7:04 PM

2020-07-23T19:04:06-04:00

I definitely agree with you SGT Eric T!

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Jul 23 at 2020 7:08 PM

2020-07-23T19:08:48-04:00

I was 27 in Basic, AIT, and 28, single, no dependents when assigned to Ft McClellan in August 1984. I had a three man room with a common bathroom down the hall. Inspections were definitely subjective and I received extra duty and restriction the first week I was there because I left an ironing board up with an iron (cooling) on it...I definitely understand your concerns! Unfortunately, the Army doesn’t seem to have changed much in the past 36 years!

Response by TSgt Robert Moore made Jul 24 at 2020 6:10 PM

2020-07-24T18:10:46-04:00

Not to buck the Army, but all services whether Army, Air Force, Navy or otherwise use the same standards. "if we wanted you to have a wife, We would issue you one.!!!! I know because I am retired Air Force!!!

Response by SPC Angel Estrella made Jul 24 at 2020 10:58 PM

2020-07-24T22:58:36-04:00

I’m really sorry you and every lower enlisted are going through that. I can tell you from my experience when I was in Active Duty as a lower enlisted that I had similar issues. So, you are not alone! However, as one unit should bring this issue up, and keep fighting to see this get resolved.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Jul 25 at 2020 6:35 PM

2020-07-25T18:35:32-04:00

As an E-3 who was both single and married, (with a non-working wife), I will say that things were a bit more complicated logistically living off base, travel time, etc, etc... BUT... I do agree that it's bullshit that we are/were expected to pay the Military's rates for the Military's chosen room & board. If you are going to decide what I eat and where I live and what accouterments my home can and cannot have, then why the fuck am I paying for it? You wanna be The Daddy and make all the house rules and decisions? YOU pay for it, not me!

We had a pretty good chow hall at 43 Area Las Pulgas, Camp Pendleton back when I lived there and our WWII Era 4 man rooms (generally with two actual occupants and two off-base NCO wall-lockers), were serviceable.

Response by PO1 James White made Jul 30 at 2020 2:44 AM

2020-07-30T02:44:48-04:00

The Army is not the only branch that has this issue. When I was an E-2, I had a female E-2 ask if i wanted to marry her to get out of the barracks. I saw many cases of young sailors getting married to get out of the barracks. Meals, you couldn't make them in the barracks, even when you worked rotating shifts and get to the galley 9aka messhall or DFAC). "Bring in your lunch", but you can't prepare it in the barracks. The married guys never got called up for a working party, but someone would enter your room and pull you from your rack, which is really fun when you just got off a 12 mid-watch and have another one that evening. ASk any service member that has been single in service and ask about the advantages of being married and you'll get an earfull.

Response by SGT Margaret Corr (RET) made Aug 16 at 2020 10:20 AM

2020-08-16T10:20:05-04:00

There is so much to assess here but I will try what I can:
I can absolutely agree that there is a wide line between single and married soldiers. I no longer have the choice to have a children or not, so that leaves me to question why a personal decision like having children is rewarded by the Army but other good deeds like taking charge of the squad as an E4 only gets you extra points on the EPP that amount to almost nothing depending on your MOS. Change my MOS, you say? Change units, you say? I hate to say it but not all units are the same. I transferred to an MP BN as an engineer to be the Engineer Chief in their HQ platoon and I can’t stress the level of discrimination between “us and them” enough. “We were just support”. I moved there to get my promotion and it honestly almost ruined my career; I ran screaming back to my organic unit that I had joined into. That “is and then” mentality is no different between MOSs as it is for single vs married soldiers. The difference is choice. I don’t think it’s right that because someone makes a choice to get married they get more money when single soldiers do in fact get shafted with extra duty because they don’t have “a family to go home to”. Reality check: yes we do. I was engaged to a guy who had a child, helped with child support because I loved them both. My sister had a child and the father ran off? Auntie Gee (me) to the rescue. My grandfather put the wrong antifreeze in his truck and his truck died on the middle of the parkway? Me to the rescue again to make sure my grandmother didn’t need to shoulder that burden (or the stress for that matter).
I’m in Brooklyn, one of the highest BAHs out there. I was paying my grandparents to live back home (bills behind their back) so the house didn’t go under, I’d take the night shift with my wonderful godson because I knew my sister needed a break. My amazing grandfather who taught me the skills I needed to be an engineer LONG before the army would want simple things towards the end of his life and I made that happen for him. I made choices to care for my family on single-no dependents paychecks when I was on the task force, and I don’t regret one second: but when servicemembers are saying “stop bitching” it’s because they do have it better and don’t want things to change.
Keep pushing for that change. Single soldiers have families too. I joined for my family- my brother took his own life and I joined 6 months later because I didn’t think I had any strength left and was afraid I couldn’t be that strength for my family...
so tell me again how single soldiers don’t have a family and don’t deserve the “reward” for those extra hours we put in that married soldiers don’t because they have a family just the same as us?

Response by PO1 Jackson Plant made Aug 16 at 2020 1:45 PM

2020-08-16T13:45:07-04:00

I was in the Navy and had the same problems. E4 and below single had to live on the ship. Which means you can be snagged anytime to do work where the seniors who live off base or on base dont have to worry about. On shore duty same situation, I had to be inspected as a E5 my room was inspected daily also. I was not allowed the extra money either. Once I made E6 I really saw the difference. I was "forced" to move in town. I was given BAQ BAH Cola.Comrats. I hit the jackpot. I lived in Baltimore DC area very expensive. I first got a apartment which cost the 2000 a month I was getting to live, funny how the cost is the same lol. Then I realized I can buy a house for 1500 a month so I made extra 500 a month. I was able to get better car because the costs were less than extra pay I was getting. Now I am single at this time if I was married I would have gotten more. I could have had this earlier if we were allowed to move in town. You are correct the cost for living in a BEQ is discusting some times. Now I have seen the new barracks and they are nice but not worth that cost. Relize I went thru this in my career from 1988-2008.

Response by SGT Lawrence Johnson made Aug 16 at 2020 2:38 PM

2020-08-16T14:38:19-04:00

Yes signal Gi get all the extrat bs to like guard duty and other stuff just because a merry Gi got kids they put signal folks on weekend duty assignment to

Response by SPC Michael Tierney made Aug 16 at 2020 2:51 PM

2020-08-16T14:51:22-04:00

Singles are discriminated against in all walks of life. Join a country club and pay the same dues as your married buddy. But if you bring your girlfriend to play golf, you pay a guest fee.
Is it religion that has led to this marital discrimination?

Response by MSgt James Slawson made Aug 16 at 2020 3:40 PM

2020-08-16T15:40:04-04:00

The military has flaws and they do need to be addressed. If you want to move out of the dorms and you are an E-4 or above it should be an option. Once you are out you should not be responsible for a room either. However, once you are out of dorms you should not be eligible to move back in. So, if you have a problem adjusting to paying all your bills that come along with living off base you will need to work it out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2020 9:19 AM

2020-08-17T09:19:46-04:00

Very well written. Having been a single enlisted soldier I voiced many of those points, usually during nightime GI parties prior to CSM inspection. That being said, I and you, joined the army and some of that is just the way it is. Totally fair to gripe about and even justified but DoD cannot afford to even run post housing for married soldiers much less provide sufficient on post housing. It could never afford to provide those benefits to 100%. It's not fair but again it's the army. It should do better on so many of your other points. I felt DFAC quality declined slowly over my entire career. Single soldiers should never have to pay for DFAC meals.

Response by SFC John Trujillo made Aug 17 at 2020 2:48 PM

2020-08-17T14:48:46-04:00

The Army has one reason for treating you different. Those with dependents will put up with more shit. You want to see discrimination in the military look at how white, heterosexual enlisted are treated. There is nepotism but not every one is related to high ranking military or civilians. West Pointers are included in that mess. I loved pre-gender neutral Ranger School. Because only your graded rank matters I was an Equal Opportunity Destroyer. I was the Merrill’s Marauders Leadership Recipient because of it.

Response by SSG Lauro Jimenez made Aug 17 at 2020 10:46 PM

2020-08-17T22:46:25-04:00

Listen people. Enlisted single personnel are wild and are still kids at heart.I'm retired and yes was a single soldier. People the military is a family. This site seems to cry about the most stupid ass shit. My soldier's knew how to act around families. So stop all the fucking crying about military families. I really want to talk to all you fuckheads face to face. Fucking cry babies.

Response by SGT Tahnya Dorsey made Aug 18 at 2020 3:17 AM

2020-08-18T03:17:37-04:00

I loved living in the barracks after my divorce. I didn't have to cook and minimal cleaning a room versusa whole apartment and i didn't have to fight traffic because everyone coming on post and meal card was awesome i saved money because 300 didn't cover the whole month and i ate better. But to each their own. I also didn't have to worry when deployed because my room never got broken into when i left. I guess some don't like it but i loved it because i had no worries but i also had a nice unit.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2020 10:40 AM

2020-08-18T10:40:08-04:00

Should have joined the Marine Corps! Every meal is a feast and every payday is a fortune! Our barracks are small castles with hand-crafted furniture and the finest of linen! Absolutely no incentive to marry a stripper and move to the trailer park!

Response by SGT Dustin Gray made Aug 18 at 2020 1:02 PM

2020-08-18T13:02:31-04:00

I would like to say that as a former Garrison B.O.S.S. President every single issue you brought up here, and then some, are exactly the issues I would bring up with Single Soldier life.

The B.O.S.S. Program was designed to enhance the lives of Single Soldiers, but it did just the opposite in that respect when it actually came down to all the unfairness experienced between barracks and married life.

Having been a B.O.S.S. President I would have loved for you to bring me that 4856 from your Lieutenant so that I could have his ass standing in front of your Brigade Commander and CSM ripping him a new one for violating Army policy that says you don't have to have hospital corners on your bed, especially if you have your own blankets and such on the bed. And if you were for some reason not allowed to have your own comforters then that's another problem entirely and one I would have also taken issue with your chain of command over.

One of my biggest pet peeves about the difference between the treatment of Single Soldiers and married ones was Charge of Quarters. I can understand Battalion and above having a 24 hour staff officer in case of things happening. However, CQ was always called the barracks babysitters. That's what they were. They weren't there to actually treat these Soldiers like adults. They were there to babysit them like grade school children.

The one thing I think needs to be addressed in all of this is how the treatment of Single Soldiers is truly a failure of leadership from the Chief of Staff on down to the Company Commanders and First Sergeants. We are not using this time as a means to help teach our Soldiers valuable skills in life that help to translate to better performance in their duties. BAH and BAS are perfect opportunities to help teach these young Soldiers money management, paying rent, making better dietary choices by preparing better meals for themselves, time management skills, etc. These are all things that these Soldiers will need when they get out.

Even at 13 years of active service when I got out I still had to live in the barracks as a junior NCO. The first time I had ever applied for somewhere to live for myself was after I got out. Navigating that process for the first time as a 32 year old was challenging. It was compounded by the fact that my first four months out of service I was living off of my medical discharge severance while waiting for the job I had accepted to start.

The barracks are a relic of the past that should only be used during training. Our Single Soldiers deserve better quality of life and way better leadership. I say it's time to do away with permanent party barracks and start teaching our Soldiers life skills that will make them better Soldiers and prepare them for civilian life as well before they get married.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 19 at 2020 12:25 PM

2020-08-19T12:25:06-04:00

Simply put...Because it is not spelled out by law. My entire career I was single and saw the most stuff that would make my blood boil. The Army will go out of its way to kiss a married soldiers ass, but won't budge for single soldiers. When I was stationed in Holland, I used to have an E-4 who worked for me who would have to take his wife to every fracking appointment known. One day when I was handing out LES's (Yes we used to hand out LES's) I saw he made about $400 bucks more than me a month due to being married, and I as an E-6 was single. After that I started giving him options on his wife's appointments, put in for a pass, take leave or submit a plan as to how you were going to make up the lost time you took off. He went to the 1SG. Top questioned me, I told him it wasn't fair to single soldiers that they didn't get free days off to be with their family's, why should he? Besides, he has an extra $400 a month, the rest of the section doesn't see. He can call a taxi for her. Top agreed.

Response by CPO William Rys made Aug 20 at 2020 8:08 PM

2020-08-20T20:08:34-04:00

Not sure about the Army, or how it really is nowadays; however, the Navy was always good at discriminating against married guys during previous decades. There was little empathy for a Sailor with a family related issue he had to deal with, base housing was difficult to obtain, and usually sub-standard at best. The Navy figured everyone had a home onboard ship, and that is where they belonged.

It was not uncommon to hear “If the Navy wanted you to have a wife and kids, they would have been issued to you in your seabag”.

I’m sure it’s different now, thankfully...

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Aug 23 at 2020 8:11 PM

2020-08-23T20:11:19-04:00

Man I'm glad I only did a Two year stint.As a draftee all I had to do was keep my mouth shut and do my job.If you joined or re-upped,you knew what you were signing up for.We were trained to take up any slack that presented itself.All for $78.00 a month.

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Aug 25 at 2020 9:59 PM

2020-08-25T21:59:55-04:00

Way back in the day, the 70's, the answer was, if the Army wanted you to have a wife they would've issued you one. The married guys always thought they were getting short changed, while the single guys always thought they were pampered. Here's the real danger about the way they Army has dealt with married soldiers. Certain soldiers may get an opportunity to communicate with their spouses while others may not be in that same position. A few of the soldiers in touch with spouses may be disenchanted with the way things are going and they tell their spouses things that should be unit business. Next thing you know, the wives of those disenchanted soldiers get some information and rumors amongst the "Wive's Club" starts. Next thing you know, soldiers or NCOes are screwing around with a female soldier and the wife of that soldier immediately gets concerned and the rumor mill gets placed way out of proportion. Things get back to the "In Theater" command and it creates issues for the soldiers in the Box. Those that are not true create many issues that are not necessary, or creates facial issues based on rumor. There are so many issues involved with these spousal organizations that gets back to the operational areas and there is no way for them to get resolved, while operational standards are strained. I agree with the old days of, If the Army wanted you to have a wife, they would've issued you one. There are way too many unproven issues that can affect and effect a line leaders moral and ability to lead their troops. The wive's do NOT understand OPSEC, or Procedures. None of this covers the issues brought up by the Sgt., but combat and conflict operations are impacted to a much deeper level than day-to-day garrison operations, such as barracks inspections etc. In order to gain the real feel for the Army, they need to bring open bays back. Open bays were fun, aggravating, irritating, and as much negative as could be, but it really brought forth camaraderie. Different topic for a different day, but making certain that soldiers maintain integrity within the ranks with mission accomplishment and ensuring that all operational procedures for mission accomplishment and lives of subordinates are protected to the best of one's ability. Outside interference can skew this judgement and throw the entire unit and mission out of synch.

Response by MSG William Wold made Sep 12 at 2020 1:52 PM

2020-09-12T13:52:30-04:00

1970. Single. Arrive after basic at Ft Eustis, VA. Start AIT, 61C Marine engineman (yes the Army has boats) did well, advanced to the higher class. Made distinguished student (second highest score). Held over to go to shake and bake. So here’s 12 of us, all E-4 with red felt dots under our rank going thru the leadership phase, we’re all doing great. Next phase is advanced engineering. That’s 8 weeks. Upon graduation we all will be pinned Sgt E-5, not sp5.
At the 4 week mark of the Engineering phase of the course, 4 of us ( conveniently the 4 single guys) We’re pulled and given orders to Vietnam because of a supposed to be shortage in a watercraft BN. So we took leave, ended up at CamRhon Bay replacement company. Hey in the mean time that BN received warning orders to stand down and prepare to rotate to the states. We were split up, to different units.
We all survived, returned still E-4. I looked up the graduates of our class, all Sgt E-5, but one was working the NCO club, one running the automotive shop, one assistant to the NCOIC of post details, one was drummed out for going AWOL. One was assigned to a vessel at the port but it was inoperable. The other 3 were off somewhere, one sent to Germany, don’t know about the other two. But here’s all that training wasted.
I got out early in exchange for a 1 year obligation to my hometown National Guard unit. Was promoted to sp5 the second drill. Stayed another 27 years.

Response by 1SG Michael Anthony Gonzales made Sep 13 at 2020 12:08 AM

2020-09-13T00:08:38-04:00

You should not be beating yourself up ... what you believe is a choice you made; perfectly justified per your experience.

What someone response Is their choice. If we all think the same, life will not have any challenges.

I’m sure your comments have been heard and changes be made 50 years from now. It appears your comments are valid. Stay strong brother and be a good leader; Lead By Example! Hooah

Response by PO3 Steve Fredericks made Sep 16 at 2020 9:07 PM

2020-09-16T21:07:17-04:00

We had it easy compared to the WWII men! I was during Viet Nam era...we did not have separate bedrooms! When it wasnt open bay barracks bunks...you had at least 3 room mates...maybe a locker separated us! You sound like youre kind of spoiled! Wow! I dont know how I made it on a lot less than 10 K a year but it really wasnt that much of a struggle! I adapted!

Response by SFC George Simons made Sep 16 at 2020 11:21 PM

2020-09-16T23:21:17-04:00

I was a single solider in the Army and except for overseas and schools l think l lived off post since l was an E-5. Overseas dependents weren't allowed. A 2 lD Korea thing. Had nice digs off post as you don't spend a lot of money in Korea. Yeah married folks were treated better but there board and water and power negated that. I was lucky everybody was treated the same after an exercise

Response by MSgt Mayo Sifford made Sep 17 at 2020 5:53 AM

2020-09-17T05:53:32-04:00

Seems not much has changed in the barracks over the years. Yeah, rooms instead of bays and kitchen, washer rooms, day rooms all in the barracks but "tenants" have as much freedom to live their lives todays as they did seventy years ago when I lived in open bays. I don't know if soldiers/airmen still have to stand roll call each working day - but those living off base were exempt. Not fair, perhaps, but that is the army/air force. Get promoted or get out. Marriage is not really an option just to get out of the barracks.

Response by SrA Sheila Holmes made Sep 18 at 2020 8:42 AM

2020-09-18T08:42:43-04:00

Honestly, it’s a nuclear family thing more than and Army thing because it’s also across other branches. America has constantly pushed the narrative that people need to get married and have babies to further the working bees and since our society values our bodies as commodities to be used, they see single people as less than and inherently risky. I’d like it to change myself; especially considering I don’t think the military really wants families serving. They’d prefer a bunch of singles.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Sep 19 at 2020 10:16 AM

2020-09-19T10:16:37-04:00

Oh no! 2 rooms with a common kitchen and bathroom? I had a some points, 4 men to a room, with a central latrine area that two platoons shared. We were not even allowed to have a microwave or a coffee pot.
Suck it up, soldier. You signed on the dotted line.

Response by 1SG Myron Carter made Sep 19 at 2020 9:25 PM

2020-09-19T21:25:22-04:00

This isn’t an Army issue, it’s a DOD issue. Were you not made aware of these situations prior to signing your contract? Did you not ask any of these questions before you joined? I served for 27 years as both a single soldier and a married one so have been on both sides of the fence. You always have choices, you just need to make them.

Response by COL Dave Sims made Sep 20 at 2020 11:26 AM

2020-09-20T11:26:15-04:00

I had to chuckle when I read this. I have heard these arguments many times over the years. A couple of salient points . Yes when you live n the barracks (though they don't sound like the barracks I lived in) there are certain standards to be met. Quoting Admiral McRaven, the old Navy Seal, .."make your bed". Barrack inspections primary purpose is health and welfare.....especially on the lookout for illegal drugs and alcohol abuse. Most importantly- the military provides barracks for junior enlisted and they are essential particularly in high cost areas. The average cost of a one bedroom apartment in DC is $ 2200 per month, in Tampa $1100 and at Ft. Bragg $1300 ---utilities are extra, some charge for parking and then add in your commuting costs/ time ( in DC I would guess commuting time is 1-1 1/2 hours depending on I95) and things start looking bad. Food prices are a major factor also ….and will be a big dent in your budget. I spent three tours in DC over the years - and every time it got more expensive. One other point on this topic is that landlords will generally not sign on for more than a year long lease...and you can expect at a minimum of a 10% increase in the rent .
Now it seems to me there are two choices for those who find themselves in SGT Eric's predicament -pursue another occupation where you think they will treat you better or get married and move off-post after telling your bride that your motivation was to save a few bucks.

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made Sep 22 at 2020 6:19 PM

2020-09-22T18:19:16-04:00

My view is that if you’re not married, don’t go on active duty. Especially if there’s a war going on: you’re on the top of the ship out list.

Response by SP5 ArizonaPoet . made Sep 22 at 2020 11:05 PM

2020-09-22T23:05:50-04:00

No excuse for housing a soldier in anything but a tent. Marriage should be discouraged as for a profession the person's stated goal is "to die in combat." If you're willing to kill,
(professional killer's the game) then one should be willing to die, no remorse, (either way you're not being civilized). And no, I'm not a draft dodger, will show you me flashing the peace sign in my SP5 uniform. Did my time, enjoyed the experience, glad it's over.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Sep 25 at 2020 9:50 AM

2020-09-25T09:50:42-04:00

i never lived in the barracks, but being marred 90 days after basic, I can tell you that being married was harder on me than being single. 6 years of my wife bitching about duty times and when and where I was going. I would've rather of had my own room to go to, my own bed, etc after an FTX... Having her bitch about dirty uniforms, boots in the mudroom... damn. Getting home at 0300 and getting back up to PT at 0600, her bitching about 1SG calling her to check in on married life. Yes, she had access to the PX, etc... but damn, Walmart and dollar store were our best friends.

Neither of us drinks or smoke, THOUSANDS saved right there, so we were able to buy our house early on.

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Sep 27 at 2020 1:26 PM

2020-09-27T13:26:12-04:00

Sgt Eric T, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't understand why you live in the barracks in the first place. Unless the Army rules are different then those in the AF, single E-4's and above could live off base if they wished, and draw single rate BAQ, they would also draw the same BAS as married folks. Those who worked sift jobs and found themselves missing a lot of meals because of their job were able to also draw BAS.

As for how married verse single military are treated, I guess one of the important reason is that a married person will stay in the service longer for the most part then a single would. Therefore less is spent on training a replacement every two or three years. I'm sure there are other reasons for it too. As for inspections goes, those living in base housing also have standards they have to conform to. I didn't have anyone coming and inspecting the inside of my house, but inspectors did come and check the yards, and if I didn't maintain my yard, i.e. cut the grass, remove the snow in the winter, I would get a notice. If I received to many notices I would receive a letter from the base commander informing me that I would have to vacate my quarters and move off base. So, those of us who lived on base had to conform to certain standards too. You can always get married - smile.

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made Sep 27 at 2020 8:39 PM

2020-09-27T20:39:26-04:00

IN THE VIETNAM ERA THERE WAS MUCH DISCRIMINATION AGAINST SINGLE GUYS BY THE DRAFT BOARD! IN KANSAS SINGLE GUYS WERE DRAFTED, AND MARRIED GUYS EVEN THOSE WITHOUT KIDS WERE NOT!!
ACROSS THE BORDER, IN MISSOURI MARRIED GUYS WERE DRAFTED!
I NEVER HEARD THE DRAFT POLICIES OF OTHER STATES! A FRIEND AND FELLOW CO -
WORKER WAS DRAFTED IN MISSOURI ,
BUT NEVER HEARD ABOUT THE KANSAS POLICY!
OF COURSE, IN KANSAS IN THE EVENT OF DIVORCE, SOMEONE WAS SURE TO SNITCH YOU OUT TO THE DRAFT BOARD!!

Response by SGM Marie Carmelle Lerouge made Oct 12 at 2020 12:26 PM

2020-10-12T12:26:39-04:00

I have one question since this post was back about 5 years ago: Are you still in the Army?

Response by SMSgt Keith Stephens made Nov 13 at 2020 12:09 PM

2020-11-13T12:09:27-05:00

Sir,
I know I’m old school and proud of it but here’s a sample of what my first infantry 1SG told us back in the day. Whenever family matters would come up when we had to go to field or deployed as voiced by the soldiers around me the 1SG would bellow at our formation, “If the Army wanted you to have a family they would be issued to you”....lol..... having said that the same 1SG would be there day or night if you truly had a family problem. My first NCOs were mostly Vietnam vets they were a special breed. Rough as hell, but always there when you truly needed them with no questions asked. I have the utmost respect for them then and now all these years later.

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Nov 14 at 2020 6:45 PM

2020-11-14T18:45:37-05:00

Same thing in the Air Force! Single officers work the mid and night shifts, most weekends, all holidays! After 18 yrs of it I was sick of it! And imagine being an LGBQT Service Member with no prospect of ever marrying while in the service. It was real hell doing 28 yrs under Don’f Ask, Don’t Tell Military Policy when you did the right thing and Commanders were still conducting purges to locate Gays on the basis of gossip, rumor and innuendo
for Dishonorable Discharges! Also retraining in to a career field as Special Agent, Air Force Office Special Investigations in the 1980s required your Commander approve your marrying and the suitability of your spouse! Yes sire, its true and happened for 30 plus yrs in the Air Force!

Response by SFC Arthur Morgan made Dec 7 at 2020 12:08 AM

2020-12-07T00:08:17-05:00

In response to assertion by a 'single' soldier, would like to counter with a comment made by newly married soldier, decades ago; to member of unit command staff, by his wife. "Sir, I understand that your command are cavalry. Really. Still, several months ago, doctor told me that due no fault of mine nor my husband, if we wish to have children, we should do so what comes naturally, sooner than later. We would both really appreciate if 'he' could be home long enough to do his part in helping make that possible."
My wife was a good military wife and dealt with all that entails though multiple deployments, with few (when any) complaints, prior making joint decision to retire from active duty 25 years ago. While serving we did our part to at least try to be a home away from home for some 'single soldiers'. As a both a track commander & as a section sergeant, we opened our home to 'single soldiers' with same goal during multiple holidays every year. As a Platoon sergeant, I did my best to be supportive of 'all' my troopers 'equally' and insured junior NCOs & troopers that did not live in unit quarters were held to the same standards my 'single soldiers' were. Only time I can recall ever seeing 'any' difference was when directive came down that to inspect unit equipment I had signed for, then hand receipted to 'single soldiers'...I had to make 'an appointment'. At that, I balked, and I'll admit it, freely. Having lived barracks myself early/occasionally in career, I was not without some knowledge of how things could go. (Young soldiers today have no grasp how much things improved for...'single soldiers' living in CONUS since Vietnam Era. Really. But being military still requires standards. During year unaccompanied rotation stationed South Korea, upon arrival as an E6 though nice new barracks had replaced old & scattered Quonset huts, that's precisely where I was put 'temporarily'. While there were a few drawbacks, I made do. Within a couple of months, was told by an S3 E9 I'd served with during a previous CONUS assignment, that I was living better than senior noncoms in hotel-like billets. As an NCO I kept my part of that old (all but forgotten Quonset hut) neat as possible until a new E7 upset my cozy little applecart, mere weeks prior rotation back to CONUS. My point? The Army didn't issue me a wife. We made a choice and various commands accomadated the choice, within reason. If junior noncoms or troopers (mature enough) to maintain quarters off base, I had/have no problem with their being paid housing allowance & separate rations as well. On other hand, if not mature enough to handle added responcibility; should conversely be housed by within available unit quarters.

Response by SPC Jason West made Feb 5 at 2022 2:22 PM

2022-02-05T14:22:10-05:00

You make a fair point, however married soldiers often surrender there full BAH in on post housing, and many homes around post often charge rents equal to or greater than the full BAH, as well the 300+ BAS is surrendered every time you go to the field resulting in that loss reflected in your LES and your take home pay that your spouse relies on while you are gone. As well as a married soldier or parent you can still be required to go clean the barracks that you don’t reside in as well as performing CQ in those barracks.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 27 at 2022 2:59 PM

2022-05-27T14:59:15-04:00

I was OIC of Ft Hood's Single Soldiers Day 2000 which drew 18,000 people. My team and I worked very hard to celebrate and recognize the contributions of single soldiers.