Why do we cut safety corners when dealing with senior leaders? Should we? https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First, Bless Colonel Darron Wright and his family.<br /><br />I have to assume, since I have seen this personally (many times), that this is not just common for me, and my little corner of world, but this is/was common place in the Army. And, it is dangerous/deadly. Even high ranking officers and NCOs can make mistakes, and we may be more prone to making mistakes on basic skills because we don&#39;t attend training often, we get special training, we were trained long ago, we are arrogant, we don&#39;t listen, and the list goes on...<br /><br />I have two examples, which I am sure many of you can appreciate.<br /><br />1. Fort Bragg, Apr 06. <br /><br />- I was recently assigned as the Deputy Brigade Commander, 16th Military Police Brigade (Airborne), and I was in a paid parachutist position. The Brigade HHC was deploying to Baghdad in August (we were not jumping in), but I needed to jump to get back on jump status. My boss said I did not need to jump, and I was worried about getting hurt and becoming non-employable. But, as a leader in a Airborne unit, I believed I needed to lead by example... so, I wanted to jump. <br /><br />- This meant I had to attend BAR (Basic Airborne Refresher). At a LTC, I was considered senior, so I went to want was called a BAR special. BAR was 8 hours, and BAR special was as long as it needed to be... usually like 30 minutes or less. <br /><br />- As a MP Officer with a Ranger Tab and Parachute Badge, most folks their believed/assumed I was an experience parachutist. However, the last time I jumped... was Fort Benning, Airborne and Ranger School 1985.... <br /><br />- So, I arrive at BAR, by myself, and meet with a young Black-hat, who initially was just going to sign off on the my paperwork; common occurrence. Then I explained to him how long ago it was since I last jumped... and asked him what he was doing on 1985... The parachute and harness had changed... as did many other things. I stayed there for 3-4 hours, and we practiced (PLFs, emergencies, etc), as I wanted to (A) ensure I knew what I was doing, so I did not hurt me or others, and (B) to ensure I did not make myself non-deployable.<br /><br />- I jumped a few days later, mass-tactical day jump, I had a few minor malfunctions... But I was recently retrained and followed the plan. It was sunny and nice, and I landed better than ever before... and I got German Jump Wings to boot. It was a good thing I made that Black-hat train me right, as jumping requires you to follow the plan, and know what to do when you have an issue; there are often issues. <br /><br />2. OEF 06-08 - Negligent Discharges. As we all know negligent discharges can be all too common. We unfortunately had too many, most in the loading and clearing areas where they should be, but had several that resulted in deaths when Soldiers were playing with weapons off duty. <br /><br />- In any case, again as a LTC, often the Soldiers would assume I could clear my own weapons; I can, but that is not the point. Everyone on the team follows the same standards regardless of rank. I made sure I checked other Soldiers and they checked me when unloaded, not matter what. I rolled with the same MP squad daily, so they understand what I expected, and I understood them.<br /><br />- Good thing too, as one morning, early, after being out all night, we were coming through the camp Liberty ACP, and as usuall stopped to upload all the vehicle and personal weapons. As usual, I first unloaded my M-4 properly with SSG Curry watching. Then I proceeded pull the slide back on my M-9 (and got ready to pull the trigger), and SSG Curry said &quot;Sir, Stop!, you forgot to drop your mag.&quot; Good thing, how embarrassing would that have been.<br /><br />Leaders need to follow the standards, and make sure they allow junior leaders and safety experts to do what they are trained to do. We are all human and all make mistakes. Where safety is concerned, we need to lead by example and not expect special training and treatment.<br /><br />Again, prayers for COL Wright and his family.<br /><br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort-bragg-works-to-end-problems-uncovered-after-colonel-s-death-in-parachute-jump-1.339904">http://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort-bragg-works-to-end-problems-uncovered-after-colonel-s-death-in-parachute-jump-1.339904</a><br /> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> <img src="https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/012/023/qrc/image.jpg?1443038621"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> <a target="blank" href="http://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort-bragg-works-to-end-problems-uncovered-after-colonel-s-death-in-parachute-jump-1.339904">Fort Bragg works to end problems uncovered after colonel&#39;s death in parachute jump</a> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description">The majority of those surveyed said a VIP culture exempted &quot;high-ranking individuals from institutionalized procedures that apply to the rest of the airborne population&quot; and &quot;enabled much of the trouble described&quot; in the report following Col. Darron Wright&#39;s death.</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div> Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:15:56 -0400 Why do we cut safety corners when dealing with senior leaders? Should we? https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First, Bless Colonel Darron Wright and his family.<br /><br />I have to assume, since I have seen this personally (many times), that this is not just common for me, and my little corner of world, but this is/was common place in the Army. And, it is dangerous/deadly. Even high ranking officers and NCOs can make mistakes, and we may be more prone to making mistakes on basic skills because we don&#39;t attend training often, we get special training, we were trained long ago, we are arrogant, we don&#39;t listen, and the list goes on...<br /><br />I have two examples, which I am sure many of you can appreciate.<br /><br />1. Fort Bragg, Apr 06. <br /><br />- I was recently assigned as the Deputy Brigade Commander, 16th Military Police Brigade (Airborne), and I was in a paid parachutist position. The Brigade HHC was deploying to Baghdad in August (we were not jumping in), but I needed to jump to get back on jump status. My boss said I did not need to jump, and I was worried about getting hurt and becoming non-employable. But, as a leader in a Airborne unit, I believed I needed to lead by example... so, I wanted to jump. <br /><br />- This meant I had to attend BAR (Basic Airborne Refresher). At a LTC, I was considered senior, so I went to want was called a BAR special. BAR was 8 hours, and BAR special was as long as it needed to be... usually like 30 minutes or less. <br /><br />- As a MP Officer with a Ranger Tab and Parachute Badge, most folks their believed/assumed I was an experience parachutist. However, the last time I jumped... was Fort Benning, Airborne and Ranger School 1985.... <br /><br />- So, I arrive at BAR, by myself, and meet with a young Black-hat, who initially was just going to sign off on the my paperwork; common occurrence. Then I explained to him how long ago it was since I last jumped... and asked him what he was doing on 1985... The parachute and harness had changed... as did many other things. I stayed there for 3-4 hours, and we practiced (PLFs, emergencies, etc), as I wanted to (A) ensure I knew what I was doing, so I did not hurt me or others, and (B) to ensure I did not make myself non-deployable.<br /><br />- I jumped a few days later, mass-tactical day jump, I had a few minor malfunctions... But I was recently retrained and followed the plan. It was sunny and nice, and I landed better than ever before... and I got German Jump Wings to boot. It was a good thing I made that Black-hat train me right, as jumping requires you to follow the plan, and know what to do when you have an issue; there are often issues. <br /><br />2. OEF 06-08 - Negligent Discharges. As we all know negligent discharges can be all too common. We unfortunately had too many, most in the loading and clearing areas where they should be, but had several that resulted in deaths when Soldiers were playing with weapons off duty. <br /><br />- In any case, again as a LTC, often the Soldiers would assume I could clear my own weapons; I can, but that is not the point. Everyone on the team follows the same standards regardless of rank. I made sure I checked other Soldiers and they checked me when unloaded, not matter what. I rolled with the same MP squad daily, so they understand what I expected, and I understood them.<br /><br />- Good thing too, as one morning, early, after being out all night, we were coming through the camp Liberty ACP, and as usuall stopped to upload all the vehicle and personal weapons. As usual, I first unloaded my M-4 properly with SSG Curry watching. Then I proceeded pull the slide back on my M-9 (and got ready to pull the trigger), and SSG Curry said &quot;Sir, Stop!, you forgot to drop your mag.&quot; Good thing, how embarrassing would that have been.<br /><br />Leaders need to follow the standards, and make sure they allow junior leaders and safety experts to do what they are trained to do. We are all human and all make mistakes. Where safety is concerned, we need to lead by example and not expect special training and treatment.<br /><br />Again, prayers for COL Wright and his family.<br /><br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort-bragg-works-to-end-problems-uncovered-after-colonel-s-death-in-parachute-jump-1.339904">http://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort-bragg-works-to-end-problems-uncovered-after-colonel-s-death-in-parachute-jump-1.339904</a><br /> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> <img src="https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/012/023/qrc/image.jpg?1443038621"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> <a target="blank" href="http://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort-bragg-works-to-end-problems-uncovered-after-colonel-s-death-in-parachute-jump-1.339904">Fort Bragg works to end problems uncovered after colonel&#39;s death in parachute jump</a> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description">The majority of those surveyed said a VIP culture exempted &quot;high-ranking individuals from institutionalized procedures that apply to the rest of the airborne population&quot; and &quot;enabled much of the trouble described&quot; in the report following Col. Darron Wright&#39;s death.</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div> COL Charles Williams Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:15:56 -0400 2015-04-14T10:15:56-04:00 Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Apr 14 at 2015 10:29 AM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591094&urlhash=591094 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Great post, <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="206564" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/206564-col-charles-williams">COL Charles Williams</a>. I haven't witnessed this personally, but I had read about the parachuting incident, and it disturbed me.<br /><br />It is a safety issue being clouded by a rank issue. Those charged with monitoring safety need to understand that safety supersedes rank, and they must be assured that their career will not be negatively impacted by sticking to safety protocols. That NCO needs to know that when he puts his foot down for safety, that it doesn't matter how angry that Field Grade officer gets, there will be no repercussions.<br />Obviously, this is not quite so, today, and that is a problem. Specifically, we are losing good Soldiers unnecessarily. This must change, immediately.<br /><br />Specific recommendations would include briefing everyone that safety comes before rank, and briefing those charged with monitoring and enforcing safety (like the jumpmasters) that there career will not be negatively impacted by enforcing safety, even if that enforcement means ticking off a General Officer. SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:29:04 -0400 2015-04-14T10:29:04-04:00 Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 14 at 2015 10:34 AM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591109&urlhash=591109 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>"Muscle memory will save your life. Muscle memory will get you killed."<br /><br />I was told that phrase by the same Sgt who told me "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." back when I was a young Lance Corporal (back in 1995). <br /><br />He was teaching me and our snipers weapons drills. Practice, Practice, Practice. To the point where it is so fluid, you don't even think about it. To where it stops being reaction and is just action. And once you hit that point, come to a complete dead stop, re-run it through your head. Make sure you can actually remember what you did. If you can't remember what you did. Go back and check it, because you probably screwed it up.<br /><br />The human mind is not infallible. It makes assumptions, even with ourselves.<br /><br />I remember back at Intel School, seeing one of the MSgt's walking down the hall in cammies. No name tags on. I didn't stop him. He's was a MSgt. He must know what he was doing. Later that day, he came into the class in Service Bravos and told us "If I'm screwed up, let me know." This wasn't a safety concern, but it could have been. I had just assumed. Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:34:45 -0400 2015-04-14T10:34:45-04:00 Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Apr 14 at 2015 11:57 AM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591303&urlhash=591303 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There are times that may be appropriate to "cut corners" with senior leaders (both officer and NCO). Usually those are administrative things in nature where there is really no threat of injury or death (unless you count death by powerpoint). However, when it comes to safety procedures (like on the range, or pre-jump checks), corners should never be cut, even for VIPs. LTC Paul Labrador Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:57:17 -0400 2015-04-14T11:57:17-04:00 Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 14 at 2015 12:14 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591342&urlhash=591342 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>While I agree that the military more often than not assumes senior leaders don't need the refreshers, I think it is great that you stood up and took the time to actually go through things. Not only did this ensure you would be as safe as possible on the jump but it set a great example for everyone around you. I think the military sometimes "signs off" on safety because we assume that a senior leader knows but as you pointed out, sometimes senior leaders haven't done the exercise in so long that things have changed. The military beats the word "safety" into our heads but doesn't always practice what they say. SGT Ben Keen Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:14:41 -0400 2015-04-14T12:14:41-04:00 Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Apr 14 at 2015 12:38 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591387&urlhash=591387 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The responsibility falls on the senior leader himself. kudos to you, <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="206564" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/206564-col-charles-williams">COL Charles Williams</a> , for demanding the training you knew you needed and demanding to be held accountable just like every other soldier.<br />The flying world is similar, where re-qual into instructor and evaluator status after O-5 suddenly gets a lot easier, and the check-rides get easier, unless you make it clear ahead of time, "pull no punches...I want the engine-out, rudder-out, wind-shear on final with low vis."<br />I was disgusted to read in Gen Horner's bio where he often flew two F-16 sorties per day as JFACC! He put himself and his wingmen at risk with his less-than-razor-sharp reflexes and tactics, and neglected his real job...supporting the JFC! Col Joseph Lenertz Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:38:54 -0400 2015-04-14T12:38:54-04:00 Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 12:46 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591407&urlhash=591407 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That is very true. Sometimes we feel like we are too important to waste time. You can never waste time training. When I went t Ranger School in 2014 had to jump. My last jump was in 2004. It was ten years. It wasn't as long at your break but I forgot a lot. So I wanted to learn it all. I was glad I did. I did two jumps there and was glad that I did refresher. <br /><br />I personally can't stand when people say "I did that a million times and I know what I am doing" or the "I was doing that before you were in the Army" crap. It is all crap. Complacency kills. That is all that is. You can't age out a malfunction. It is best to always be prepared. CPT Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:46:55 -0400 2015-04-14T12:46:55-04:00 Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 14 at 2015 3:27 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=591769&urlhash=591769 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Fort Drum, NY... early 90&#39;s. The flight surgeon (MAJ?) walked into a tail rotor. There were people all around working, but he was the flight surgeon. Safety Rule #932 working in aviation......the tail rotor disappears when the aircraft is running at 100%. SFC Mark Merino Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:27:06 -0400 2015-04-14T15:27:06-04:00 Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 6:38 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=592187&urlhash=592187 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's good to see that senior leaders don't cut corners. Unfortunately some do and the consequences can be disastrous. Thanks for sharing your point of view. 1SG Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:38:17 -0400 2015-04-14T18:38:17-04:00 Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 14 at 2015 6:50 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=592231&urlhash=592231 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think this is a two pronged problem. Junior soldiers are sometimes reticent to question senior leaders, and some senior leaders act like royalty. You are right, standards must be upheld or we become a corrupt organization. The last time I tried to qualify on a 9 mm it took me 5 tries to no avail because I was shaking to much. I just had to realize I was a bolo and I tried my best and asked for no special consideration. Then I took myself to the wall of shame lol. MAJ Ken Landgren Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:50:38 -0400 2015-04-14T18:50:38-04:00 Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Apr 14 at 2015 7:27 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-do-we-cut-safety-corners-when-dealing-with-senior-leaders-should-we?n=592318&urlhash=592318 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The system drives safety cuts. The Officers and Senior NCOs are so busy, everyone wants to do the hand wave.<br /><br />During one particular train-up (for my deployment to Iraq for the Surge) they gave me the hand wave for things like Call for Fire/ Air Support, MEDEVAC request, First Aid, Radio Operations, and BLUE Force Tracker. After the NCOIC discussed why I was waived, I said something to the effect that I was "re-enrolling myself" because I was not going to be "that guy" that when the stuff hit the fan did not know basic skills that could keep my Soldiers and myself alive.<br /><br />Obviously, we as leaders need to do our best to keep our individual basic skills at the same level as the equipment we have, the equipment we may have to use, and at least at the level of our Soldiers. It also helps us judge the quality of the training our Soldiers have received and what improvements/ adjustments may have to be made before we deploy. LTC Paul Heinlein Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:27:11 -0400 2015-04-14T19:27:11-04:00 2015-04-14T10:15:56-04:00