Why do veterans and active duty members still stereotype by rank after someone has retired or left the service?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:00:56 -0400

I bring up this question because my wife was treated very poorly by another spouse because of my rank! Here husband is a Major in the Marines and she has told others that is the reason she doesn't like my wife.

Why play the "Rank Card?" RP Members your thoughts?

Why is this still happening in our veteran and retirement community? I've always addressed service members here on RP by their rank initially out of respect for what they have accomplished and then I drop it and start addressing them by their first name as much as possible. Accordingly, RP allows you to highlight the name of another member, so your RP Connections will receive an email and the rank is required - got it!

I think once we leave the service there shouldn't be a stereotyping of rank or service - we should get along and respect each other as veterans and retirees that served a "common purpose!" Again, this just my opinion!

By thw way my wife has never played the "rank card" and never will!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 11:09 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:09:36 -0400

I think for the most part it doesn't happen but the few that need the self importance make the rest look bad. I had a wife scoff at me because I was enlisted. My husband is civilian and got along with her husband which is also civilian. They didn't talk so much after the rank thing came in question. Sad but true

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 11:15 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:15:38 -0400

Sir,
On RP or other military themed web sites its a matter of respect. The wife in question obviously thinks she wears her husbands rank and should be corrected for it.Over my career I have met many like her (DO You Know who my Husband is?) and my wife have also be excluded because of my rank at the time (One of the reasons she hates FRGs) I retire soon and have friends from church and else where that are officers and enlisted. On Military Forums I will most likely continue ti address people by the rank they earned out of respect. But in the real world Major Smith/LTC Jones will be Steve and Bob. And if I work on post and I am addressed by my Give name so will they.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 14 at 2016 11:18 AM

SFC Stephen King — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:18:06 -0400

Jan 1 2017 call me Stephen. If not I will be sure to educate. I recommend a change to first name on our profile. Rank 8s a non issue. COL Mikel J. Burroughs no disrespect

Response by SSgt Robert Marx made May 14 at 2016 11:23 AM

SSgt Robert Marx — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:23:54 -0400

That wife of a Major is small minded and insular. Sometimes in the Service, people actually start to believe that due to the rank of the service member sponsor, that member and those connected are better than those of lesser rank. For a major's wife to presume that upon a Colonel's wife indicates a lack of knowledge of the rank structure; however, it might be due to the inter-service discord held by some. I would purport that the wife in question is at best petty and at worst "-" [pick your own derogative adjective].

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 14 at 2016 11:26 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:26:54 -0400

Honestly, I don't understand stereotyping by rank. If I was speaking to an officer or senior enlisted, I might try to be a bit more respectful when I speak to them, but that's about it. I've never known anyone I disliked simply because of their rank. Personally, this sounds more like the military wives that think they rate a salute because of their husbands rank. That's literally the only rank based issue I've ever come across.

Personally, I will address anyone how they prefer to be addressed. I'll be honest, I've come across officers I've served for and I'd still render the proper greeting of the day because they were my officers.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 14 at 2016 11:29 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:29:58 -0400

"Captain" is as much my name as is "Jack". It distinguishes me as one who served this land that I love. Among veterans, every rank is equal inasmuch as it signifies exactly the same service. Interestingly, among members of the VFW, we refer to each other as "Comrade". Having lived through the entirety of the Cold War, I still find this jolting.

On another note, I remember a film "Heaven's Gate" set in the American West of the late 19th Century, in which civilians referred to each other as "Citizen". I often wondered if this was an actual practice. Inasmuch as I saw this before the advent of the Internet, I never researched it. I suppose I should put that on my To Do list...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiNlthlz1d8

Heaven's Gate: Roller Skate Dance

Short clip from Michael Cimino's "Heaven's Gate" (1980).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 11:32 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:32:18 -0400

Playing the rank card is a sign of insecurity and lack of self identity. That's the same as a PhD demands others to call him/her "doctor". It's different when in the Military. Aside of the "respect" aspect, it is my job to address others with their ranks because it is in the regulations and I am doing my job. Spouses like that MAJ's wife just need to grow up and get over themselves.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made May 14 at 2016 11:39 AM

PO1 Brian Austin — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:39:17 -0400

Personally, anyone on here can call me Brian and i don't mind. If they prefer PO1 Austin, that's fine too. Myself, i prefer to address everyone in a respectful manner. A force of habit i guess..lol

The spouse rank card has always irritated me. My wife has lost some "friends" over it, unfortunately. However, her best friend is the spouse of an active duty LCDR/O-4. Rank has never entered the equation. We hang out, go fishing regularly and he has a serious man cave as well...lol And because of that, I've discovered thin crust pizza...lol He's from Brooklyn NY.

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made May 14 at 2016 11:40 AM

SPC Andrew Griffin — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:40:17 -0400

EGO!

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 14 at 2016 11:56 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:56:24 -0400

Interesting, Good Question. The Example is pretty sad, disappointing and petty that it works it's way even into the Military Dependent Community. It is a Respect thing and Integral Part of our community while we are on Duty but very much less so after we get out or retire. With me Rank is very Unimportant, I was HYTd forced out "Retired" at 21 as an E-6 so my title is pretty lowly anyway also the Navy is kinda unique in that we are more concerned with your Rate than your Rank. We recognize you by your Job Specialty: Boats for a Boatswains Mate, Doc for a Corpsman. Even when I served if they didn't call me by my Nickname of Chip it would be CT1 or those that Knew me on-line (On Navy Telecommunications Circuits the predecessor to the Internet) called me by my "Chop" (2 Letter Initials) of KC or Casey. Needless to say I answer to William, Chip, CT1 or KC. What a wonderful bit of discussion.

Response by MAJ Andrew Ready made May 14 at 2016 11:58 AM

MAJ Andrew Ready — Sat, 14 May 2016 11:58:44 -0400

I'm proud of the rank i earned. Are you???

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made May 14 at 2016 12:06 PM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:06:54 -0400

First wife in the 1970s was at an event and some wife keep using her husband's rank. On the third time my civilian clothed spouse was told the tradition of using rank with the wives, she went off and said, you may call me a SGT of Marines and give me the respect that I EARNED, and you do not have to call me based my husband's rank. She earned her own rank.
Most of them did not invite her back. She was not sad. The 1970s were different. At that time, there were 23 WMs in 2d Marine Div. :)
JRL

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made May 14 at 2016 12:19 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:19:07 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - While waiting in line commissary, a woman weaving her cart through line. She explains as she goes ahead: "I am a Colonel So-and-So's wife. I get front of the line privileges." From behind me another voice booms, "Well, I am the CG's wife. I suggest you return to the end of the line, Mrs. So-and-so." Some just, simply don't "get it."

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 14 at 2016 12:29 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:29:56 -0400

Playing the "Rank Card" sounds pretty Petty but I am a Petty Officer. I'm sorry I couldn't help myself with the Cheesy Joke.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 12:31 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:31:59 -0400

Wow, this is the kind of thing that just floors me. I can't believe that anyone within THIS military community could be disrespectful, most especially, between each other!! It just amazes me beyond belief... I don't even know what to say to your wife, except, I'm so very sorry!! AND, I think I speak for the majority of us (not the minority that she's hearing this from).

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 14 at 2016 12:37 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:37:46 -0400

Some veterans and active service members are very conscious of their own rank and others COL Mikel J. Burroughs. Thankfully many are not.
One thing I really appreciate about the VA is that in my experience every veteran is treated equally. Our disabled veterans ID cards make no mention of our rank. That is the government ID I use to prove who I am so that I can vote in Virginia elections. I have used it for several years.
From your wife's experience I would thing the other spouse was offended because you are not a Marine much more than your rank.
I think the Military Service issue is much more of a source of conflict than rank. Pride of Service can easily devolve into disparaging the service of others.
FYI LTC Stephen C. LTC Private RallyPoint Member Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. "Bill" Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 14 at 2016 12:41 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:41:24 -0400

I treat all people with the respect they deserve, be it rank, or their work title. No one is better then the other, rank just shows that they performed well in their field and job.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made May 14 at 2016 12:59 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Sat, 14 May 2016 12:59:03 -0400

There will always be at least that 2% that is a "sour note" on the same sheet of music.

Response by SFC Wade W. made May 14 at 2016 1:05 PM

SFC Wade W. — Sat, 14 May 2016 13:05:50 -0400

A lot of my past soldiers and veteran friends call me Top as First Sergeant was my last position in the Army. It doesn't bother me nor would it bother if they called me Wade, Sniper, Will or one of the other nicknames I have. If a person is so insecure that a title is so important they need to take a long look in the mirror and do some self evaluation. While serving I expected everyone to address me by my rank or position just as I did for them. Once separated though, let's move on.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made May 14 at 2016 1:15 PM

SSgt Terry P. — Sat, 14 May 2016 13:15:27 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I do not think more or less of anyone because of their rank
If a person wishes to be addressed by rank here,i have no problem with it. If they wish to be called by given name i have no problems there either.
I prefer 'Terry" myself.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made May 14 at 2016 1:44 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sat, 14 May 2016 13:44:03 -0400

I never quite understood why people continued to use their rank in public after leaving the military. However, Col Burroughs, I can understand your wife's frustration; but then again I can't. My wife was constantly coming back from OWC events feeling frustrated because of wives wearing their husbands rank. Once when I was a Major she was told by a Colonels wife that she would have to do something because her husband was only a Major. I'm sure your wife was expose to this as well, so don't totally understand her feelings or not understanding.
I may be an exception, but when I was in command positions I was especially proud of the fact that my wife was frequently told by enlisted wives that they couldn't believe she treated them like equals. This all seems to say that when you aren't in a military situation, rank becomes insignificant. Yes I have my rank on my checks, but that's because it has to be there when using a check at Commissary, BX, etc. and yes any military related publications or accounts show my rank, but I certainly don't go around stating my rank when I meet people. Some people who learn my background refer to me by rank when we meet, but those are few and far between. To anyone I'm Jack when we meet or do business together and that's how it should be when you go back to civilian life.

Response by A1C Melissa Jackson made May 14 at 2016 2:08 PM

A1C Melissa Jackson — Sat, 14 May 2016 14:08:03 -0400

And it is not even HER rank!!!! Maybe she should earn a little bit of rank on her OWN before throwing around someone else's.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made May 14 at 2016 2:11 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Sat, 14 May 2016 14:11:09 -0400

Sir, I don't feel the need to "pull rank" even when I was AD. On here I will call you by your rank and last name being I'm conditioned to do so. If I saw you in person, you would still be COL Burroughs. It's not to inflate your ego, you earned it, but it's a respect thing between us. For those of you who have told me to call you by your name, I mean no disrespect, but you earned it, and unless we're fishing buddies, you'll hear your rank and name from me.
Stereotyping of rank and service, I'll bust chops on other MOS/Rates and service branches. It's all in fun (on my side at least), and that's the way it's always been. What hurts is when you BELIEVE your MOS is the greatest beyond the jokes. I'll give and take a POG comment, I'll dish out some MP jokes, and I'll even use some Signal jokes. But that's where it ends. Now should the person want to really take it there, yes I could shut him/her down and be formal and correct in what I say, but normally I won't even do that. I'll let you run the gums and I'm onto the next post. This meme isn't completely correct, but I made it to highlight in a conversation on FB how once the grunts start talking EVERYONE is now a sudden grunt and can give you more "data" on what grunts do and what Benning is like. It didn't go over that well, and I smiled being I got what I wanted out of it.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made May 14 at 2016 2:25 PM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Sat, 14 May 2016 14:25:20 -0400

Fear of letting go and lack of humility.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made May 14 at 2016 2:55 PM

SGT Eliyahu Rooff — Sat, 14 May 2016 14:55:10 -0400

I think a lot of it is a carry-over from active duty. Some seems to depend on the activity or location, though. When I was stationed in Germany, I sang with a special services choir in the evenings. We all showed up in civvies and knew each other by first names. Most of us didn't have a clue about each other's rank and assignment. It came as a bit of a surprise six months down the road when I discovered that the guy next to me, whom I only knew as Bruce, was a full colonel and brigade commander. He told me, though that this was something he enjoyed doing as an escape from the stress of duty, and when we were there, he was just Bruce. He was secure enough that he was happy with the respect we gave him as a singer and fellow human being, and didn't need to spend his whole life being saluted.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 3:02 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:02:01 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs We should respect each other regardless of rank or branch of service.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 3:13 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:13:28 -0400

I will say this....my wife doesn't even try to consider the contemplation of the idea to even think about the notion to try and use my rank to her advantage.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 3:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:15:46 -0400

Rank has no bearing on character or social class. I would be a fool to look down on people in my civilian profession who were held humble ranks when they were on active duty. There are many millionares and PhDs who never made it past PFC when they were in the service. I once met a corporate executive who retired as a SSG after 20 years, before he embarked on his new career, When I was an enlisted man, my first line NCO supervisor was the son of an admiral.

Response by LCpl Ash Carson made May 14 at 2016 3:27 PM

LCpl Ash Carson — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:27:20 -0400

Being out of the service makes me really appreciate everyone who has served. Doesn't matter to me what branch you were in, still Love everyone. The rank card should not be played at all.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 14 at 2016 3:59 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:59:55 -0400

Generals are briefed that they wont get promoted because they act like emperors or the spouses act like queens.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 4:20 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 16:20:36 -0400

Well, I have held ten ranks. Eleven if you count my retired Army rank separately.

If you could see the cap in my picture you would see captain bars and SFC stripes. I was once asked which I was more proud of. I couldn't answer.

That said I never thought much of a spouse using her/his spouses rank for anything. Spouses don't have rank unless they are also a service member.

Response by SPC Darren Koele made May 14 at 2016 4:33 PM

SPC Darren Koele — Sat, 14 May 2016 16:33:50 -0400

After service? Can't say I've ever been witness to such a practice... though I don't doubt it exists. I've had the pleasure of befriending two officers (both now retired); one was a Lt Col in the Marines an the other a Major, later promoted to Lt Col, in the Army. Despite the fact I served a mere 4 years and got out as an Spc4, thy never treated me any different than they did each other or their friends.

Though it is not the same thing, what drives me nuts is people (most notably on Facebook) using their VETERAN status as if it somehow gives their opinion more credibility than anyone else. That's a cool thing about RP, you can't do that here.

Response by A1C Melissa Jackson made May 14 at 2016 5:28 PM

A1C Melissa Jackson — Sat, 14 May 2016 17:28:25 -0400

When I was working as a counselor to disabled veterans for the VA, I observed that higher level enlisted retirees had a VERY difficult adjustment to civilian life. I did not see as much with any other ranks leaving the service after a regular enlistment- even those that saw intense combat. There were exceptions to the rule, of course, but it was sometimes sad. I had one veteran that was a 20+ year retiree from the marine corps. He had SUCH difficulty. He wanted everyone to call him "gunny" and he got mad and walked out of jobs when they called him anything else. He was still struggling when I left. Great guy- I hope he finally accepted help and was able to press on.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 5:31 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 May 2016 17:31:54 -0400

It's a simple response, out American culture love to use labels and subtle status to elevate our own egos. It's our culture.

Response by COL John McClellan made May 14 at 2016 5:51 PM

COL John McClellan — Sat, 14 May 2016 17:51:30 -0400

I have never really understood this Mike, and especially among tje spouses!

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made May 14 at 2016 5:58 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sat, 14 May 2016 17:58:41 -0400

I think that this is mostly an issue of comfort, security and familiarity. I personally think that it's somewhat amusing when someone makes assumptions of inter-personal and organizational behavior based on our former status in the chain of command. As a retired Major, I am courteous to all. But I do not necessarily defer to other contractors based on their former rank. It can be rather sad to see someone who lives in the past and acts as if our former hierarchical structure is still in place and functioning after we retire. As I see it, once we retire, we live in a meritocracy based on capabilities and achievement. We should not live frozen in a past hierarchy based on our former military rank.

Response by Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM made May 14 at 2016 6:52 PM

Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM — Sat, 14 May 2016 18:52:15 -0400

I am so sorry that she had to go through that Mikel, she is much better than that and deserved the utmost respect. I find that at times when people treat others that way, it is more a reflection upon them, than it is on us. That is their only identity and how sad that is for the Major's wife. Her insecurity as a woman is revealed in her behavior towards your wife. It is perhaps, That she felt so intimidated by another woman's knowledge and beauty, that she felt in order to bump up her self esteem, she belittled another. I found that at the Marine Call Ball's many women were very much like this Major's wife. We simply can not help looking good in a dress! And we can not help that they have issue with your wife's beauty, brains and Self esteem. This is NOT your wife's issue. The Majors wife should have lead a little better and been more inviting regardless of rank, all spouses in the military go through the same thing.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 14 at 2016 7:09 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Sat, 14 May 2016 19:09:30 -0400

Well, I would say this most emphatically....NO WIFe anywhere should be able to lean upon or get anything special due to her husbands rank. (Just for those that are gender sensitive, let me phrase it this way...No spouse should be able to lean upon or get anything special due to the rank of the military sponsor). That means NO reserved parking for the SPOUSE of a General or a Colonel or a Unit Commander...The Service Member earned the rank, not the spouse. I saw the Spouse of a Colonel park in a spot at the Main PX on one of our larger bases and I asked a Military Policeman what unit she was in. The MP told me she was the wife of a Brigade Commander. I asked why she had the right to park in a spot reserved for O-6 and above. The MP told me something very interesting, the only official Reserved Parking spots are 1) Handicapped and 2) Post Commander. From that point, one of the guys that was with me parked where ever he wanted. One afternoon the spouse of a O-6 called him out for parking in HER spot. The Sergeant asked her for her CAC Card, and then walked off.

I have seen lots of people, a Brigade Commander at Fort Bragg comes to mind, who's spouse caused, by her actions and abusive attitudes towards other wives and Soldiers below her husbands grade, her husband to be forced to retire after having been given an RFC. It is sad but true. Lots of military spouses think that too deserve the rights, privileges and perks of being a Senior Officer or NCO...and that just ain't so.

Response by PO1 Tony Holland made May 14 at 2016 7:39 PM

PO1 Tony Holland — Sat, 14 May 2016 19:39:32 -0400

After my dad was commissioned ( Navy PO1 to O-1 ) my mom complained about this after every officers' wives gathering during the 1960's.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made May 14 at 2016 8:02 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sat, 14 May 2016 20:02:47 -0400

All ranks are important and deserve respect. Each of us has experience to pass on that others may profit from.

If you have someone looking down on others on the basis of rank they are advertising their shallowness of thought and poverty of character, IMHO.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made May 14 at 2016 8:41 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Sat, 14 May 2016 20:41:45 -0400

Years ago a spouse from a retired O-6 and a lady who is a retired GS-Something thought I would make hotel reservations and prep VIP treatment at Camp Darby, Italy where I was station. Yes, some contractors plan lame training sessions to exotic locations to justify a 4 day trip.

I made her aware that my role was to link her up with the resources so she could make her reservations. I also made her aware that a private/airman on PCS orders has priority over retirees or contractors at the Camp Darby guest housing.

She tried to play the retired O-6 wife card on me. To keep the story short, in the end, the ladies chose not to come to the base.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 14 at 2016 9:27 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 14 May 2016 21:27:34 -0400

My wife got jabbed by another wife when she pulled into the O-6 slot at the Exchange. Her response was "You want me to take an E-2s spot so he has to go somewhere else?" I told her to use the O-6 slot so she'd leave more parking open.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made May 15 at 2016 12:05 AM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Sun, 15 May 2016 00:05:02 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs wait, what? I would not even want to be friends with a person like that...would not care of give them a time of day...it's her husbands rank ...not her's....what does she have? ...and besides...your rank is "col" and her husband is a "maj"....doesn't Colonel out rank a Major? Never the less....you are retired and no matter what you should be shown respect just for the fact that you served your country...with distinction and honor...and she sure the hell isn't the one serving, it's her husband.......People like her can GO JUMP IN THE NEAREST POOL OF WATER....Tell you wife that she's not worth your wife's time and that this woman is already beneath her because of her crappy attitude.

Response by PO1 Kerry French made May 15 at 2016 12:30 AM

PO1 Kerry French — Sun, 15 May 2016 00:30:25 -0400

OMG SPOUSES DO NOT HAVE RANK!!!! She should have told civilian wife to pound sand!!!

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 15 at 2016 1:01 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sun, 15 May 2016 01:01:52 -0400

I'm guessing those who do the rank card after service are the ones(spouses) who played the same game while spouse was on duty. For me, I do it out of respect for what they've done and achieved. So much habit for me to call an officer - current or retired/ out of service "Sir/Ma'am"

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made May 15 at 2016 1:21 AM

GySgt Joe Strong — Sun, 15 May 2016 01:21:23 -0400

IMHO you actually have 2 questions going. 1) Why do people stereotype by rank & 2) what kind of jackass doesn't let his/her spouse know how inappropriate it is for them to be using the members rank for any purpose other than ID? IMHO the answer to #1 is because there tends to be some validity in stereotyping(even though it's not PC to say so) but of course depending on the level of detail stereotyping is also sure to fail.
The answer to #2 is that some folks don't know their spouse is doing it and the real jack wagons think it's cute.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 2:01 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 02:01:59 -0400

Some are not satisfied with their station in life and due to an extreme lack of self esteem, the only way they can feel good about themselves is to " ride another's coattails" to a more pleasant place in their mind.

Response by SGT Robert R. made May 15 at 2016 9:17 AM

SGT Robert R. — Sun, 15 May 2016 09:17:58 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, I find that I give more respect for retired Field Grade officers and above, along with E-8s and E-9s. I respect anyone who has served, but the ranks mentioned previously, hold a little more "something" to me and I respect the person who achieved that rank at all times.

Maybe it's because I worked for a West Pointer Tank Captain, in corporate America who had no idea what he was doing, but the company kept moving him from department to department, without him showing any level of success.

Sorry to stereotype, but it is what it is.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made May 15 at 2016 10:31 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Sun, 15 May 2016 10:31:58 -0400

My fiancée is a retired E-6 from Navy. She can use her rank, but unless you served, you don't have rank or any reason to use it!
When I was in Panama, the Wives club was highjacked by the officers wives. They thought they would be in charge, run all functions and could tell the other wives what to do. So the enlisted wives made their own Enlisted Wives Club. They would BBQ and pass out beer and sodas to us when we came back from the field or deployments. They would organize the Christmas parties etc. They voted in their leaders. Everyone, with exception to the officers wives liked it a lot better!

Response by SGT Charles W. made May 15 at 2016 10:53 AM

SGT Charles W. — Sun, 15 May 2016 10:53:41 -0400

Shit!! I don't care what you call me, just don't call me late for chow! My mom's an LTC(R) and dad's a SSG(R). I have uncles in almost every branch of service, one that went enlisted to officer, one ring knocker (Annapolis) and a cousin, his son, is an Annapolis graduate as well. If we had to address each other by rank every time we talked, not much would get said.

Response by SSG Vik Polivka made May 15 at 2016 11:52 AM

SSG Vik Polivka — Sun, 15 May 2016 11:52:35 -0400

I'm not to sure, but I have my suspicions. It seems to usually be 'middle management'. Privates, and Sergeants Major don't seem to do it, nor do CPTs, or COLs. But a SFC, or MAJ? Most likely.

I had an A, and P (1, and 2) professor who was a retired COL (USAF), great instructor, and had no idea he was prior service till another professor mentioned it.

On the other hand, I've seen a retired SSG (Army) act like he was kinda a big deal, and belittle other prior service members he felt that he outranked.

I think it comes down to maturity, and whether you felt you were given authority to serve others in that capacity, or that you "earned it, and paid your dues", so now you can throw it around.

Active duty side, at the Commissary, I asked that spouse what their (in this case, her) rank was, and just got a blank look, and some chuckles from the line. I don't care if your spouse is a General, you are a civilian. I have never seen a senior service member use rank to jump ahead in a line, in front of a subordinate.

When in doubt, remember: Throat Punch.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 12:04 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 12:04:01 -0400

All due respect, Sir, but the wife has no rank, sooo.... yeah, there's that. :)

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made May 15 at 2016 12:52 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sun, 15 May 2016 12:52:54 -0400

I'm sorry COL Mikel J. Burroughs, as I am retired, I wasn't aware I still HAD a rank. All this time I thought I was "Mr. Holt" or even just "Steve".

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 1:05 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 13:05:38 -0400

Definitely the Dependapotumus syndrome. Spouses throwing around their military members rank. I see it a lot driving into Fort Carson gates. Spouses getting angry that the Soldier on duty didn't salute their car because their spouse is an officer. Well if they are not in the vehicle with you why would they salute a dependent? Its usually the spouses that have no identity of their own so they latch on to the service members.

Response by SFC Andrew Dowell made May 15 at 2016 3:47 PM

SFC Andrew Dowell — Sun, 15 May 2016 15:47:48 -0400

Wife after 22 years of service doesn't remember what my rank is let alone care about what rank other husbands are. I'm retired that point is mute. She treats everyone with respect and if someone doesn't treat others with respect well you lost hers

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made May 15 at 2016 3:53 PM

SPC Alejandro Martinez — Sun, 15 May 2016 15:53:49 -0400

Perhaps the only reason I have not witnessed that is because we rarely went civic style balls or the px/commissary. I'm glad I was blind to it.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 15 at 2016 3:56 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 15 May 2016 15:56:31 -0400

That's why I moving far away from military folks when I retire.

Response by CPO Bill Canada made May 15 at 2016 4:40 PM

CPO Bill Canada — Sun, 15 May 2016 16:40:24 -0400

I concur mike. I have friends that range from O-6 to E-5 we all hunt, fish, camp and swap lies. Rank is left in the shadow box where it belongs as does the branch of service.

Response by SGT Michael Thorin made May 15 at 2016 4:55 PM

SGT Michael Thorin — Sun, 15 May 2016 16:55:09 -0400

This will probably be the least popular thought on this, but I feel the need to present it.

"Army wife: the toughest job in the Army."

This saying has been made so popular that almost everyone hears it. Those who have heard it believe it to be true, and while it is insanely tough and trying, I find it difficult to accept that it is, truly what it purports to be.

I think this, as well as the series "Army Wives" has given many spouses the idea that this rank their spouses carry entitles them to that rank being bestowed upon themselves.

The lady did not know about you, or your rank.

In her own, she probably would not have given it a second thought. I would suspect that her husband spent a bit of time telling her stories about how all over him were incompetent because he knew better how to run a war than they had, and would not listen to them.

As a rule of thumb, most spouses attitude towards others is driven by their husband or wife. COL Burrougs, I'm assuming your wife's behavior was driven in your relationship. You and she both decided that an honorable way for her to handle your rank was for her to treat everyone equally and respect.

This Marines spouse was most likely encouraged to use the rank card by her husband.

Military members who tell or encourage their spouses to pull the rank card, sayings such as "Army Wives: The toughest job in the Army" and shows like "Army Wives" can send a message to spouses that foolishly believe they have some authority over others, or to take their spouses stories of anger or disgust and hold them against someone who is completely undeserving.

Response by CWO3 Curtis Conway made May 15 at 2016 5:30 PM

CWO3 Curtis Conway — Sun, 15 May 2016 17:30:50 -0400

Inter-service Parochialism has been a malady of the US Armed Services for a long time. Part of this is from the lack of understanding of what it is to 'serve' in any capacity in the services. Our first Commander-in-Chief understood this, and provided the example. We are all citizens and share in the governmening of our country. Our Christian Ethics requires us to 'do unto others as we would have them do unto us." How much different it would be if we really lived this ethic.

Response by CPT John Sheridan made May 15 at 2016 7:55 PM

CPT John Sheridan — Sun, 15 May 2016 19:55:46 -0400

Civilian life sometimes changes things. It's not good to make assumptions about people based on their rank or their occupation. I have a friend who is a retired LTC, Civil Affairs officer with an advanced degree. He is a water plant operator. He likes it and is looking forward to retirement. His civilian career was compromised by his service in the reserves with multiple overseas deployments, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan. It cost him opportunities to become a Director of Utilities or City Manager. He doesn't complain and has no regrets. I have another friend who is a retired COL. He owns a boat and runs a charter sport fishing business. One friend who achieved the lofty rank of SPC before leaving the Army after four years, today has a PhD in Genetics, is a Professor and principle researcher in biotechnology. My brother after 10 years in the Navy, where he went up and down in rank a couple times, got out and joined the Air Force reserves. His rate in the Navy was Aviation Maintenance Administration and the similar MOS in the AF. He retired as a Tsgt. He runs global inventory management for a division of a large corporation. Another brother was an Infantry CPT in the Army. Today, he's a retired firefighter and works as a clerk at a retail business.

To be completely honest, I enjoyed the Army more as an Infantry SGT than I did as an officer. It was good, but I couldn't see myself doing it for the rest of a career, so I decided to resign my commission. That was August 2, 1990, so that decision was deferred for about 18 months.

Rank says only one thing about a person. It's foolish to think that it tells you much more than what it is.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made May 15 at 2016 8:14 PM

SFC Randy Purham — Sun, 15 May 2016 20:14:42 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Sir, I too have seen this in the Vet community and it's an ego thing in my opinion. It makes the spouse feel validated - often for their lack of personal achievements - to ride the coattails of their military-accomplished spouse. I have too witnessed that, for the spouse, after retirement, they didn't amount to much of anything so both the retiree and the spouse throw their rank around to garner respect and clout within their community/circles. I find it hilarious sometimes other times I take pity in the fact - depending on the situation. Military installations have gotten bad with that since they opened up housing to retirees and civilians.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made May 15 at 2016 8:35 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Sun, 15 May 2016 20:35:40 -0400

Good evening,

The addressing by rank my not always occur. But, this is a military themed website. For me, it is only natural to address those listed here by their rank, Sir, or Ma'am. They earned it and I take them at their word.

As a former active duty Corporal of Marines and NCO, I will not be offended if folks here want to refer to me as the smartest enlisted Marine of all time. My former SSGTs and GySgts called me Genius quite often. Used in a sentence as follows: Hey Genius, come here. Or, did you really do that Cpl. Morris, you stinking Genius?! It has helped my self-esteem all these years.

Kind Regards,

Mark A. Morris BS, RDMS, RVT

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 9:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 21:52:17 -0400

Spouses don't hold rank, unless they too are in the military. A spouse using his/her spouses rank for any privilege is a sign of insecurity. Try it with my wife and you will probably learn the hard way, as several have. I treat all spouses equal, with respect. But I don't treat a colonel's wife any different than I would a privates wife.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made May 15 at 2016 10:44 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Sun, 15 May 2016 22:44:29 -0400

I may have just not noticed it when I was in but I don't remember seeing much of that in those days. However I have heard one of my nieces comment about a few officer's wives who seem to be smartass and stuck up. I guess that some people just need to feel important?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 11:42 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 23:42:39 -0400

Sir, I will address you as makes me comfortable :). And as you are a for we LTC and we are not close personal friends, calling you Sir is a nearly term of affection! If any of my troops and friends call ne 'Top', well that is the best nickname ever. But never would I insist and I belly laugh to think my of my former SPC infranty hubby insisting on anything based on my rank. They are people who need this are incredibly weak internally, sadly that does not mean they cannot damage others. Address it up front and don't stand for it.

Response by BG Mike Bridges made May 16 at 2016 1:24 AM

BG Mike Bridges — Mon, 16 May 2016 01:24:42 -0400

My civilian business cards say "Mike". One year as a Retired Soldier for Life.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made May 16 at 2016 5:32 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Mon, 16 May 2016 05:32:24 -0400

I was fortunate to find employment at the same place that I retired from. When I returned to work, many people (especially Sailors) still referred to me as "Senior". Whenever they do, I always correct them and say "Please call me Jason". I am finished with my military career. I really want to begin my civilian life.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 7:57 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 07:57:40 -0400

Those who play the "rank card" are very insecure and literally want attention on a possibility they were never given enough growing up, jealous that someone was able to out-rank their spouse, etc. There are too many possible hypothesis to the whole thing. What I don't like is when the spouse thinks they are entitled to the same respect as their SM spouse. Given, respect should be given to a spouse no matter what the rank is, but sometimes it's just too much.

For example: A SM who's rank is an O-4,O-5 comes to a sentry at the base gate and demands for the sentry to salute the spouse. If the officer was there, of course, but a spouse in her/his POV? No, I wouldn't salute him/her. I've heard countless stories like this and seen a lot of spouses who are disrespectful, no mind for regulations or just have a real bad attitude.

Playing the "Rank Card" just makes an ass out of yourself and puts your SM in a real bad light.

Response by SFC Bayardo Reyes made May 16 at 2016 9:35 AM

SFC Bayardo Reyes — Mon, 16 May 2016 09:35:51 -0400

Status..
part of our Culture, lack of social or bad social experience.
When in regards to Service members, its an etiquette for proper respect. Till this day I still address by their last rank to old supervisors that completed their service earlier than expected because medical or just did not go for full 20+.
When on spouses, its a grey area. a Commissioned officer, officer who gets his/her authority and/or power granted them by the President. Commission enables them to hold command authority whereas a non-commissioned officer cannot, even less a lower enlisted. Now saying this, if at a dinner with a "Official", who would you address their spouse? I believe there is a degree of respect as because for every successful Officer, Warrant, NCO, etc there was support from their spouse. << That is a hard job too.
At the same time, yes, stating " not liking or special favors because rank is immature or.. snobbish. that's more of the persons personal morals, not etiquette.
(I'm not a writer, sorry, I type how I think)

Response by SFC Bayardo Reyes made May 16 at 2016 9:56 AM

SFC Bayardo Reyes — Mon, 16 May 2016 09:56:59 -0400

well, don't know about other services, but here it goes..
ARMY REGULATION 600-60
Chapter 6
Forms of Address
6–2. High officials
Address high officials such as presidents, ambassadors, and Cabinet members by their titles only, never by name.
When addressing the spouse of the President, alone or together with the President, use only the surname, never her full name or initials. [Spouses of high-ranking officials, including the Vice President and Cabinet members, do not share their spouse’s official titles; therefore, write and address them in the usual way.]
I say again!!
Spouses of high-ranking officials, including the Vice President and Cabinet members, do not share their spouse’s official titles; therefore, write and address them in the usual way.]
What makes them any higher?

Response by LTC Thomas Tennant made May 16 at 2016 11:04 AM

LTC Thomas Tennant — Mon, 16 May 2016 11:04:00 -0400

What are you talking about? I have had former NCO's in my civilian career who were better bosses than some of the retired/retarded officers in similar positions. But, let me rewind and start again.

I will say that the rank you left at sets you up for some reasonable and maybe unreasonable expectations. From there it is only down hill or up based on your character and how you relate to people. In terms of general relationships, once a veteran always a veteran. On we who have served can only understand. By initially addressing them by the rank, I agree you are acknowledging what they have achieved while in service to our great country.

However, after the initial introductions and I have had a chance to get to know a veteran, I do ask permission to use his/her first name. It does two things, it lets them know I am respecting them as a veteran and allows us to transition away from rank into the more social and fraternal.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made May 16 at 2016 11:34 AM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Mon, 16 May 2016 11:34:56 -0400

I don't understand it either. I wonder if male military spouses encounter the same treatment!!!

Response by MSG Pat Colby made May 16 at 2016 12:26 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Mon, 16 May 2016 12:26:19 -0400

That's one thing I do NOT miss about the Army. Uppity scrunts that wear the rank of their spouse.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made May 16 at 2016 12:26 PM

CPO Randy Francis — Mon, 16 May 2016 12:26:56 -0400

While working base security you see this pretty often. I once heard "You can't give me a ticket, my husband is Ensign Jones!" Well we laughed and we laughed. I was a MA2 (E-5) at the time and I gave her the ticket and my partner and I told her she should get her Ensign husband to call our Chief. Later we told the Chief about it and we all laughed and we laughed. In security you had a lot of opportunities to say the words "Sir, please don't confuse your rank with my authority."

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 12:58 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 12:58:17 -0400

Once we get out, we're all just High Privates in the Rear Rank.

Response by SSgt John Buono made May 16 at 2016 1:34 PM

SSgt John Buono — Mon, 16 May 2016 13:34:09 -0400

My wife had rank pulled on her once. I was Security Forces E-5 working as the desk sergeant. She had just dropped off food for me and left the station. An alarm activation happened and as per SOP the gates were locked down until the situation was dealt with.

Her car was in line in the outbound lane. A man behind her for out of his car trying to look around my wife's car towards the gate to see what was going on. My wife struck up conversation with him letting him know it might be awhile before they moved. He told her his son was an "Airman" and he would be getting off base before her. She told him, "well, my husband is the reason you are sitting here on this bridge. He is the desk sergeant and until he feels like releasing the gates neither you or I will be going anywhere. Besides, my car is in front of yours anyway..."

Needless to say the guy shut up and got back in his car.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 2:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 14:07:30 -0400

You back story and your concerns are 2 different things. As a Service member, rank us everything. When it comes to Dependants, the SM and the Dependants need to realize that the Dependant has NO right to pull "rank" on anyone. Yes there are benefits that come with being a dependant of a higher ranking SM, but there is NO Dependant hierarchy whatsoever. Would my wife be able to pull rank on a COL's wife, since my wife actually possesses a 214?

Response by SFC Craig Dalen made May 16 at 2016 2:10 PM

SFC Craig Dalen — Mon, 16 May 2016 14:10:16 -0400

I can only assume that people who play the rank card are insecure in who they are. Me personally I feel that we are all human and can learn from one another regardless of rank. I'm just sayin...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 3:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 15:05:45 -0400

I'm sorry that is happening to your the MAJ. Is wrong.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 3:06 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 15:06:17 -0400

The wife does not wear her husband rank

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 3:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 15:20:33 -0400

Key word "spouse" nuff said.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 3:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 15:23:40 -0400

A failure to educate perhaps. Or the enduring human behavior of vanity; to be all of what you are not... hmmm....
Related: I despise the term ARMY WIFE/Husband ( or insert service of choice ) Does this purport the attitude of wearing a spouses rank?

The Army, Navy, AF, Marines, CG have no wives/husband... none, zero... They have Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, Coasties (Guardians).

So that makes them a Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, Marine or Coastie (Guardian) Wife or Husband.

Is that not something to be proud of, and stick on your bumper?

Rank is kinda like an A-HOLE, everyone has them.... In service.... but not spouses.... they don't have rank but can act like an A-HOLE....;-}

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 3:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 15:45:21 -0400

After doing it a significant part of a persons adult its hard to walk away from some good and bad habits. I myself don't see the need to refer to ones rank when retired. Heck I think it classes to do so when still in uniform.

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 16 at 2016 4:32 PM

PO1 John Miller — Mon, 16 May 2016 16:32:22 -0400

People ask me what my rank is and I say "I'm a PFC!"
Person asking: "Navy doesn't have PFC's."
Me: "Private F**king Citizen!"

Response by PFC Victor Bozic made May 16 at 2016 6:04 PM

PFC Victor Bozic — Mon, 16 May 2016 18:04:05 -0400

Never bothered me. I achieved the rank of PFC(Praying for Civilian).
G/2/5 68-69
1st MarDiv

Response by Cpl Denis Dearborn made May 16 at 2016 6:16 PM

Cpl Denis Dearborn — Mon, 16 May 2016 18:16:05 -0400

I had been out of the Corps for several years and worked at first as a DoD Police Officer at a military base. Now, being a civilian, I do not have to salute any office BUT, every time a Marine Corps Officer came through that gate and I was standing duty, I rendered a salute. One day the Full Bird asked me why I saluted him still and I simply replied "once a Marine, always a Marine" to which he got out of his vehicle and rendered a salute back to me. That is respect for my Branch, that brotherhood that I feel only exists in the Marine Corps between Marines. Did I salute any other officers? Nope. It was just a personal thing, a Marine thing if you will and it is just like coming to the POA anytime I hear colors. I think your going to always face issues from different people who had experiences during their military careers. It's like my experience with butter bars in the Middle East. They came fresh from OSC or the Naval Academy and thought because they had earned a 4 year degree in Puppet Making that they all the sudden were these great Military Combat Leaders. More times than not, these idiots with their big heads were the exact reason for others getting killed or injured and that tends to stick with you when your enlisted because the majority of officers walk around with their heads in the air. I remember Sgt Major Rhymer, 2nd highest decorated marine at the time. He had a Major say "excuse me, SgtMaj, you didn't salute me" SgtMaj simply tilted his cover and said "O5 and above sir, O5 and above.....Now, how many are going to respond with saying something like "He still should have saluted, blah, blah, blah..... Forget the fact the man had actually earned the awards he wore unlike officers who write themselves up for their own awards.......lol............. Forget the fact that man lead and survived a total of 17 combat missions from Viet Nam on up. I suppose this doesn't much answer the question at hand but in a way it does because it shows situations in military life that stay with those who served, things we remember, things that effect us. Do we respect the rank and not the man? I guess you can say that. You have to understand the outlook also that in my own personal life goes like this, I respect all people the same. God is no respecter of persons and neither am I. I don't care if you are the CEO of a company. You put your shoes on the same as me and just because you have a couple extra zero's in your pay check, you are no better than the crack addict holding a "will work for food sign" on the corner. I feel the same way for the President of the United States, big deal, the guy got some people to vote for him, be they legit votes or not, but i won't shutter or feel as if I am in the presence of someone important. When that POS Clinton came to Camp LeJeune back in the 90's The Base Commander had to order us to attend because no one liked him. This after Norfolk NS had an entire Battalion of Navy Personal do an "about face" once Clinton took the stand not 3 days prior. No one liked him, everyone knew he didn't like nor care for the Military and we all knew how much his wife Hillary hated the military. Now, did they make the CO of Norfolk NS look bad by displaying that slap in the face? Yip, sure did but you know what? That CO said that he respected them all even more for sticking to their guns and their feelings about the way they were treated by the man who was supposed to make sure they were taken care of. This kind of thing will carry into civilian life as you yourself have seen first hand. It sucks but hey. Do I agree with "Playing the rank card is a sign of insecurity and lack of self identity" Yes, the MAJ Below makes a good point at the same time we cannot kid ourselves about "regulation" because no one and I mean No one follows regulation to the letter, not even the JAG Officers. I recall being confronted by some Army guy about 7 years ago who was mad at me because he had lost some friends in Iraq and claimed it was the fault of the Marines. Because my POV has the EAG, he made me a target in a parking lot and my wife and children were there. He was enraged, yelling etc.... I deescalated the situation and come to find out, it was no the Marines who caused the deaths of his friends but the poor leadership of his squad leader who then was rescued by a unit from a MEU. No one listened to him and no one understood about what it was like to loose the guy next to you. An hour later and we hugged and shook hands and I wished him well..... The point to take from this, you never know what or why the person is angry. I could have pulled my weapon because an enraged man quickly approached my wife and children in a hostile and aggressive manner but I knew there was something behind this guys rage which was pain. What happend to this Woman's husband? I highly doubt the reason she doesn't like your wife is because you were a Bird and her husband is not, I just see the BS meter spiking on high over that one. I'm not saying what your telling us is BS, I'm saying what this woman is claiming to be the reason is the BS. Maybe your wife could confront her and find out the real issue behind it. Maybe she had a bad run in with some Bird before who belittled her husband and holds that feeling that all O6 and above are the same. Look Col, you and I both know that you must pick a political side to pick up the star, could that be a reason for this woman's anger? Could it be a political thing? Maybe her husband got passed over for promotion once, twice and you know what happens if they do not make Lt.Col.. Possible resentment from this woman because of what you achieved? I didn't look to see what branch you served in but i do know for a fact that the Marine Corps is much different than all the other branches when it comes to Rank. I personally served with a Cap.t who ended up taking E-7 because he could not get promoted to Major................talk about a pride buster. Worked so hard drinking and the dedication to the party life in college all to see that Officer power go down the Drain and now have to serve with the backbone of the US Military. As a final and nothing to do with this post, the best officer I ever had the privilege to serve under was a Mustang by the name of Capt. Sharky. It is my personal opinion that every Officer should have to serve a minimum of 1 year as an Enlisted person so that "troop welfare" is something they know first hand, not something they are taught out of a book. A Mustang for those who do not know is a prior enlisted person who then becomes an Officer, some people get it through MECEP or like my Grandfather who served in the Army/Air Corps, he got a field commission and retired as 3 Star Gen from the US Air Force back in the 1970's. Anyhow, long post, I apologize but I hope I may have provided some info that will help you think about the situation. I know this isn't your typical response, but usually the best responses come with a bunch of other worthless dribble :)

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made May 16 at 2016 7:26 PM

PO1 Jack Howell — Mon, 16 May 2016 19:26:55 -0400

I think that all military wives, especially the one you described, should be reminded of the fact that their husbands earned that rank, NOT them.

Response by Sgt Donald Chalfy made May 16 at 2016 7:33 PM

Sgt Donald Chalfy — Mon, 16 May 2016 19:33:21 -0400

I find this very interesting as well. Within my Marine Musician family, I share a brother and sisterhood with Marines, some of whom were my leaders over 36 years ago. Many were junior to me during my career, but went on to retire as CWO3s, CWO4s, and Master Gunnery Sergeants. When we have reunions and otherwise get together, we have always been on a first name basis. As a matter of fact, I met John Lee, MGySgt., USMC, Ret. 1968-1994, who was the Drum Major for the President's Own, US Marine Band during 1989-1994. Many US Marine Band Drum Majors come from the Marine Field Bands. Upon my introduction to him, I called him MGySgt. Lee and was swiftly corrected by him, and four others loudly proclaiming simultaneously, "my/his name is John!" OK, lesson learned. I know a few Colonels that I referred to as Colonel until I was told to call them by there given name. As for Flag officers, I always call them by their rank and surname, never their first name. Personally, I believe they have earned that respect. That said, as Mike so eloquently wrote, "I think once we leave the service there shouldn't be a stereotyping of rank or service - we should get along and respect each other as veterans and retirees that served a "common purpose!"" In my experience, most Veterans prefer to be called by their given names after they retire, or otherwise leave active duty. We know each others ranks and realize the gravity of that title whilst on active duty, and that does not go away in the eyes of other Vets. Some of my Bubbas use their rank as a nickname because that is what they prefer and fits them well. We did our duty and know have the luxury of camaraderie and enjoying knowing the person behind the rank. Maj. Ginny Lee hits the nail on the head regarding insecurity and identity.

Now is the time to celebrate each other and who we've become, the accomplishments we've made, and realize we are people. Not one of us here were born with insignia on our sleeves or collars, we chose that. Abusing the priveledge flies in the face of what we stand for.

Response by SPC Joseph Jones made May 16 at 2016 7:47 PM

SPC Joseph Jones — Mon, 16 May 2016 19:47:05 -0400

Only thing a military wife has as far as rank is spouse.

Vets and others who have serviced bring up rank only to show a relation to exeperences. A major and a vet sgt. aren't realy going to have much in common if anything the experience is the equivalent of mail room clerk and ceo. So yeah its there but all in all personally treat me like a person I'll do the same.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 8:36 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 20:36:42 -0400

I get called by my rank a lot by my friends at drill who I was prior-enlisted with. It's usually cadot or cadidiot, but we were all fisters together before I decided to go for the Master's and do ROTC at the same time. I hear "F'kin traitor" a lot too with a lot of head shaking in disappointment, but I know they're just messing with me. I just smile and shrug. I love those guys though. 13F for life!

Response by Sgt Lew Dunham made May 16 at 2016 9:03 PM

Sgt Lew Dunham — Mon, 16 May 2016 21:03:44 -0400

I see rank of retired (and all discharged veterans) similarly to attaining college degrees.

I was told once by a wise soothsayer that a college degree signified an ability to learn at a certain level, not necessarily a proof of expertise.

I see rank as a demonstrated ability to lead at a certain level and a commitment to service. I have the utmost respect for all veterans and all ranks.

Of course, the "Peter Principle" is sometimes evident.

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made May 16 at 2016 9:52 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Mon, 16 May 2016 21:52:57 -0400

I think in the instances where it is done as a respect thing to acknowledge the accomplishments you have made, what you have done, where you have been, etc etc, then it can be looked at as a positive thing. I know I get called "Sarge" alot by a few civilians that know I am a disabled veteran. I was never a Sgt. Spc, Cpl, and PO3 were my highest ranks, though I have had Sgt responsibilities. But back on point. Based on my experience it seemed like there were alot of Army Officer Wives who were very uppity and treated lower Officer wives and Enlisted wives differently. Not all, but when I was in my wife and I have certainly encountered them. I think some must carry that attitude with them even after their Husbands retire. I have never met a civilian husband of a female officer who acted that way. I'm sure there are some, I just have never met any. I think it's a personality trait that in my opinion is less than desirable. We are all in this thing called life together. Who needs to deal with some retired officers wifes uppity attitude. Just my thoughts.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 11:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 23:26:42 -0400

Ok here is my in put. Did the spouse serve in the military at all? No then you are just Mr or Mrs so an so. The military member is the one with the rank not the spouse. Show everyone respect period

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 16 at 2016 11:44 PM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 16 May 2016 23:44:55 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs As former E-1, who got married as a E-5, my wife never really embraced the whole officer wife thing, and certainly never cared about nor embraced/wore my rank. I was even once told, I would never be a general because my wife did not play the game. We are all veterans, and in retirement, rank should not matter, especially among spouses. But, that said, I still address all my former bosses as Sir...

Response by SFC William Farrell made May 16 at 2016 11:52 PM

SFC William Farrell — Mon, 16 May 2016 23:52:13 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, maybe Ill just call you Mikel as rank is out the window! :-) Well in all kidding aside, I treat all people with respect. That respect is not elevated because you are a four star general nor is it lowered because you are an E1. My respect to you is as a person. The wives ought to follow the same rules, treat people with the respect they deserve as a human being. If we all follow this rule, the world will be a better place. I know I do.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 5:39 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 05:39:36 -0400

I have never personally experienced this...only thing I'm used to are the posted signs displaying "military in uniform have head of line privilege"...that should be the only distinction...in my opinion.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made May 17 at 2016 6:33 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Tue, 17 May 2016 06:33:59 -0400

It was my wife's experience that Officer's wives looked down their undeserving noses at the enlisted wives real often. My advice was to her, any woman that got her self worth from her husbands rank were more of a possession and not very self respecting and most likely we are better off with them not in our circle of event or circle of friends.

Response by SFC Jerry Shaw made May 17 at 2016 6:40 AM

SFC Jerry Shaw — Tue, 17 May 2016 06:40:13 -0400

Why does a spouse use Rank? They don't have any. If she acts to good then that is her problem, not your wife's. When we retire I feel we are all equal in rank RETIRED.

Response by SPC Paul Sottung made May 17 at 2016 6:55 AM

SPC Paul Sottung — Tue, 17 May 2016 06:55:08 -0400

I think when you are out of service all veterans matter.Not because of rank...None of my friends treat you any different no matter what rank you were when you were discharged...Also your rank will be on your head stone..Why ? And remember branch of service does not matter either...God bless you all.....

Response by Cpl Kurt Huber made May 17 at 2016 7:32 AM

Cpl Kurt Huber — Tue, 17 May 2016 07:32:40 -0400

She's a Dependapotamus, she's nothing, she is married to a man who is something (was) something as a Major.
I wouldn't lose a single wink of sleep worrying about it, she can kick rocks all by her lonesome because non of the other Dependas stack up to her apparently!
Some day she'll meet a Colonel or a General's wife and hopefully she'll have the lowly Major's Dependa out painting rocks and police calling the park!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 7:47 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 07:47:40 -0400

Sounds like she is the type of person that thinks she wears the rank instead of her husband.

Response by SPC Greg K. made May 17 at 2016 7:49 AM

SPC Greg K. — Tue, 17 May 2016 07:49:49 -0400

Sound like there are big insecurities and lack of self esteem. She's probably never "earned" anything in her life so she needs to let others know that she's now hanging with "the cool kids". Or, has contempt for those that have out done her. It happens everywhere in life, not just with the military rank and college degrees...it happens with professional corporate promotions, in the PTA, Scouts, sports and kids academics. Maybe it's her way of showing dominants, or expecting others to submit because of her husbands accomplishments. It just makes those types of people look bad and it never fills that empty place inside them that they are trying so desperately to fill. There must be some lack of self esteem and not understanding how bad it makes them look. Sad really....It's a lot of wasted energy.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 8:01 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:01:00 -0400

Old, very old, habbits die hard! Once, many years ago, my mother got an invitation to an all ranks function of some kind that read, "Officers and their Ladies, Enlisted Men and their Wives...." Needless to say she, they, we did not attend.

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made May 17 at 2016 8:10 AM

CAPT Hiram Patterson — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:10:48 -0400

The Major's wife is a snob!

Response by MCPO Tom Miller made May 17 at 2016 8:33 AM

MCPO Tom Miller — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:33:55 -0400

Rank in my tenure was always paramount while on active duty and especially where military leadership stood by example and pride! I had the pleasure of serving with the best and being led by the best! I worked for a CDR who, I thought, was a strong competent leader who was a natural leader and built confidence by his example of caring and seeing that he stood by your development and he never hesitated for a moment in his dementor in praising an accomplishment. Today, in friendship, I still call him CDR and he will say Jerry please. Just can't do it as he'll always be CDR. My last boss was a VADM and a delightful leader too and after retirement, he was always my ADM as I felt very proud to serve under him, rank given and earned, seemed to fit as special people within a military setting. Whereas, conflict on rank standing with spouses after retirement seems socially stiff and demeaning to the active duty retiree without forming mutual respect!

Response by TSgt Pennie Snyder made May 17 at 2016 8:40 AM

TSgt Pennie Snyder — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:40:48 -0400

We have a world war II retired Colonel who still works in the Retiree Affairs office here. He has always been known as "Colonel" and his last name. I've always spoken to him by that title, and when my father died (20 year Air Force veteran) he was of great assistance to my family. However, I never liked his condescending attitude toward me and other enlisted personnel. I think that he couldn't survive without the forced respect. I still give him his due as a retired officer that served during World War II but wonder why he feels the need to still be addressed as "Colonel" at this point in his life? He still briefs enlisted people leaving the service and is quick to point out that they should have gone to school to become officers and make what he makes as a 100% disabled retired Colonel. I joined the Air Force because I didn't have funds to attend college. After joining the service and serving for 20 years I obtained my bachelor degree prior to leaving. I worked just as hard as an enlisted person as he did as a Colonel and feel that he should show some respect to us also. That being said, I don't want to be called by my former rank. That should be reserved for active duty people. It's a shame that spouses think they earn respect by their marriage. Sorry but I give respect to those who have earned the right. I'm afraid I wouldn't like the officers wife who shuns others based on someone's former station in life.

Response by CPL Phillip Hubbard made May 17 at 2016 8:43 AM

CPL Phillip Hubbard — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:43:59 -0400

We had the same problem when I served (85-90). Especially during "Gate Guard Duty". The Officers would come by get their salute, say Hi or How's it going? and keep going. Some of the spouses would stop and wait for the salute, then complain to their husband that the salute was given fast enough or we didn't salute at all. Most Spouses know the game, but those few who were there for the accolades were what we referred to as "Tag-a-longs" - if he didn't get the next promotion fast enough she was out of there - and this happened quite a few times. Sad really, but a Spouse SHOULD NEVER PLAY THE "RANK CARD"...

Response by LtCol Kevin Johnson made May 17 at 2016 8:44 AM

LtCol Kevin Johnson — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:44:22 -0400

There are people in all lines of work that let their or their spouses position go to their heads. Fortunately, I've met fewer in uniform than in civilian life. I agree with the poster that said it's a sign of insecurity.

Response by SSG Curtiss Poteat made May 17 at 2016 8:52 AM

SSG Curtiss Poteat — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:52:10 -0400

Wives or husbands that were not active duty, have no rank.

Response by SGT James George made May 17 at 2016 8:54 AM

SGT James George — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:54:20 -0400

People are people wherever you go. that lady is just another 'bad apple'. Sir, dont let it bother you or your wife,, be thankful you know not to trust her now. and High5 to what Maj Ginny says below too!

Response by PFC Douglas Fromm made May 17 at 2016 9:06 AM

PFC Douglas Fromm — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:06:27 -0400

My old Company Commander from Mike 3/7 in Vietnam is a retired BGEN and we all address him as General but most of the rest are addressed by first name. The Majors wife needs to know she has NO RANK and if she acted like that at one of our Reunions she would probably be asked to leave. We have never had a wife of an Officer act this way and her husband needs to straighten her out.

Response by CMSgt Scott Haskins made May 17 at 2016 9:12 AM

CMSgt Scott Haskins — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:12:46 -0400

When I retired the opening line to my final comments was "Hi, my name is Scott!" I had been called Airman, Sergeant, & Chief for 29+ years and I was more than ready to be called by my name when I retired. When I address another retiree or veteran I address them by the name they use to introduce themselves. If they demand to be addressed by their rank then I request they address me as Chief. Tit for tat! If I address someone on active duty I address them by their proper rank.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 9:16 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:16:03 -0400

I have to admit, sometimes I do judge people based on the rank they achieved while in the military. Example, I met a guy who was medically retired from the Army at 18.5 years as a SSG. My first thought was, how the hell did you spend nearly 19 years in the military and only make E6? There is a guy in my current unit that has been a SPC since at least 2007. I understand that in the guard and reserves sometimes there just aren't slots to promote into, but how do you stay an E4 for 10 years?

Response by SSgt David Nace made May 17 at 2016 9:17 AM

SSgt David Nace — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:17:11 -0400

Sir,

I say this, because I respect the rank that you achieved. If I were part of your VFW, I would still say sir to you. That is because of the rank you achieved. I would be uncomfortable to not say it. Getting more comfortable with you as a person, I might say your first name eventually, but I would start and stop the conversation with Sir and a proper greeting. I would not expect you to call me Staff Sergeant, nor Nace. That is your choice and your comfort level, we are men here. We can make these decisions for ourselves.

My wife would never play a rank card. We were married when I was a Lance Corporal. This means, we really didn't have to much clout, because the rank is an automatic rank and can be easily lost and regained. My wife was also never in the military, except for the marriage. She did get other spouses, particularly spouses of junior officers, who treated her as if she was in the military and wanted the same respect that the officer had. These wives that were always like "Do you know who my husband is?" were the worst part of some units.

In the Marine Corps though, we were very cognizant of rank. So many times someone would be promoted and now you cannot be "friends or friendly" with the people that you were friends and friendly with for so long. In public, we would treat each other professionally and in private we would be friends. Rank does matter, especially in the decision making process.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 9:27 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:27:40 -0400

That is rediculious. She doesn't like your wife because at you held more rank than her husband. She needs to get the stick out of her 4th point of contact and realize the never had any rank.

Response by PO1 Dave Porter made May 17 at 2016 9:33 AM

PO1 Dave Porter — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:33:48 -0400

Spouses have no rank. 1. if any spouse does not like another because of the O vs E mentality, then it is that spouse's loss, and 2. the spouse treated badly has the right to speak up and let them know. Don't be shy. As a retiree, I will not allow any other retiree's spouse disrespect her, or the spouse of an active duty O or E. What are they going to do to me ore my spouse, take our birthdays away?

Response by CPL James Zielinski made May 17 at 2016 9:47 AM

CPL James Zielinski — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:47:24 -0400

some people don't have much else to hang on to. that's about it. I don't think that treating people poorly because of their rank is proper even while still in the military. While rank does define position it does not define worth, except to those who inherently have none. Many people will perform well in the military environment, many will perform well in the civilian environment, some in both, some in neither. I think everyone should be treated with respect until they prove that they don't deserve it, which the other spouse in your story has done.

Response by MAJ John Adams made May 17 at 2016 9:48 AM

MAJ John Adams — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:48:26 -0400

The only difference rank makes to a retires, other than fond memories and maybe some pride or ego stroking when USAA calls you by rank on the phone, is in the retirement check. That's assuming he or she GETS a retirement check, of course.
I hated playing the rank card while I wore the pickle suit. I CANNOT understand why anyone would try that crap as a civilian! Particularly when it's not even their rank, but a spouse's. I'd say, "Unbelievable!" but I've seen it myself, so I'll just say, "Ridiculous."

Response by SrA Christopher Gatzka made May 17 at 2016 9:51 AM

SrA Christopher Gatzka — Tue, 17 May 2016 09:51:58 -0400

I got it a lot when I worked in the gates checking IDs. The retired officers always demand a salute. By courtesy I make my personnel at the gate make sure they get a salute. But if a personnel decide to not to salute retired folks due to backed up traffic. Then they don't have to. This one retired Col decided to complain that one of my personnel was not saluting him and wouldn't leave until he got one so the personnel called. I approached the vehicle and I asked what seems to be the trouble? The retired Col said " I want my god damn salute! I'm a retired Col! I deserve a salute!". Since he was not in a reasonable mood. I took it upon myself to tell the man "Sir, your are retired Col. We extend the salutes as a courtesy out of respect. We really don't have salute you if we don't want to. Now move along." and then he left immediately after my brief. Never heard a complaint from him ever again.

Spouses do the same thing. It's annoying to see a spouse act as though the rank extends to them as well. They do this cause they think they can get away with it. A retired Col's spouse or even if they are active duty or ANY officer or non commissioned officer rank. This all stems from the real problem. The actual ranked official. The real ranked official is the person responsible for either not keeping it in check or both are bad apples and they think the rank is a pass to do whatever they want. Simply put, they are just power hungry and bitter.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made May 17 at 2016 10:05 AM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:05:30 -0400

I remember back at 8th & I, LtGen Christmas would ocassionally walk into the barbershop across the street and waited his turn just like everyone else just to get a haircut. Even though the shop had a policy that allowed flag officer head of the line privileges. His response was something to the effect of, "I'm not going to be in trouble if I'm late".

Response by SFC Phillip Wiley made May 17 at 2016 10:09 AM

SFC Phillip Wiley — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:09:44 -0400

Playing any "Rank Card" of a spouse and not of your owns is an issue in itself. It is one thing to be proud of your spouse, it is another to feel some kind of entitlement because you married a rank and not a person (someone has a real self image issue).

Response by SSG Henry Chan made May 17 at 2016 10:11 AM

SSG Henry Chan — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:11:12 -0400

Like many have stated, it comes down to a level of maturity and being petty about something silly. Especially since you're referring to after people have left the service. It doesn't matter if it's military or pure civilian, there are those who are obsessed with status symbols. There are people who will put themselves on a pedestal based on clothes, car, where you live, job, etc.

Personally, I will respect their former rank, but it's who they are as a person. In your case, maybe that wife was mistreated by a COL and/or their spouse at some point, but that doesn't mean it's a good reason to mistreat another based on rank.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 10:23 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:23:04 -0400

Retired is retired! Yeah, you still carry the rank (in name only) that you held while on duty, but you are a civilian. There are no ranks in civilian life. Anyone who tries to carry the authority of his/her rank after retirement is not someone worth being around. A spouse who carries her/his spouse's rank after retirement is a total retard.

Response by SSgt Lani Unger made May 17 at 2016 10:26 AM

SSgt Lani Unger — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:26:37 -0400

Unfortunately some wives/husbands think that they wear their spouses rank and use it as if they wear the rank. I have seen it numerous times when i was in. I remember one particular time that a General's wife parked in her husband's spot and a security forces member did not want to confront her about it. I went straight up to her and told her that she had to move her vehicle. Said wife needs to get off her high horse.

Response by PO1 Kevin Risner made May 17 at 2016 10:35 AM

PO1 Kevin Risner — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:35:58 -0400

I think it's clear that this wife is certainly in the minority. I joined the Navy when i was 17 and left after 6 years. I went on to get an undergraduate and a graduate degree (thanks in part to the GI Bill). I have been quite successful. I keep in touch with my old crew through FB and I still refer to the Captain on my last ship as "Captain". He was a great Captain and it just seems right to call him Captain (he has been retired for some time).
About 15 years after I left the Navy I ran into one of the officers on my last ship. I was the engineering manager for a large telecom company at the time and had authority to make purchase decisions from vendors. The former officer was with a vendor wanting me to purchase his products for my company. Our roles were essentially reversed - it was an odd dynamic.

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made May 17 at 2016 10:48 AM

MSgt Rob Weston — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:48:58 -0400

As a retiree I see it like this, while I will retain the rank I achieved I have long since hung up the uniform. Most veterans are in this category. As for dependents, those that try ro use their spouses rank as an advantage is few but common enough to cause irritation. I classify them in two types those who are new to being a military spouse, a teen who's parent is high rank/top enlisted and don't know any better, and those like Maj Lee stated insecure who think they have authority they don't really have. I have felt with a few of the latter while in with "do you know who my husband is...." Which normally was replied to "nope and didn't care, here is your citation" and write down on the copy that went to the members unit "attempted to use spouses rank/grade/title to circumvent the duties and responsibilities of the patrolman. Many times I would get a call from a commander or high ranking officer/Enlisted apologizing for their spouses behavior. I learned that many of them didnt realize their dependent acted in such a manner.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 10:50 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:50:54 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I am of the belief, we honor rank for what it is, without letting insignia define us or our character.

Response by SCPO Larry Poffenbarger made May 17 at 2016 10:56 AM

SCPO Larry Poffenbarger — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:56:25 -0400

I was checking people in at a veterans organization convention. A gentleman walked up to my desk and asked where he was to go as he was the speaker for the luncheon. I knew who the man was and for some unknown reason jumped to my feet, saluted and said "Right this way, Admiral" ( four stars deserve some respect) He quickly replied " I'm not the Admiral, my name is Bob" I escorted him into the dining room and seated him with two Master Chiefs and a Senior Chief. And just introduced him as Bob. After the luncheon I was cornered by the three and asked in very harsh terms why the %^#& didn't I tell them that was Admiral XYZ. I told them the say thing he told me, he's not the Admiral, he's Bob.

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made May 17 at 2016 11:12 AM

Sgt Frank Rinchich — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:12:20 -0400

You want the real reason. "childish" you earned that rank it belongs to you forever, I some times call a few friends by their past rank and some times call them by their name. it shows respect with both name or rank, that's not a service problem that's a wife problem . educate your wife, maybe your wife should use the rank card once in a while, she would be showing respect for what the person accomplished, sounds to me Col. like you just want to forget your time in service and go on your merry way, your mother gave you your name , the service gave you your rank, keep them both sacred.

Response by PO1 Elverton Chin made May 17 at 2016 11:15 AM

PO1 Elverton Chin — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:15:06 -0400

I am a retired enlisted and I keep in touch with some of my fellow retired officers. We are now civilians and I call them by their civilian first name with no disrespect to them. In fact, I now consider them my friends. Our military lives are our memorable past and what we do now as civilians are another chapter in our lives. So, spouses like that MAJ's wife needs get off her ass and come back down to earth with rest of us, as it is a lonely world up there. She is just full of it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 11:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:36:02 -0400

I think its based on insecurity.
Being in a Navy town (Hampton Roads), I interact with a lot of Navy (and some Air Force) personnel outside of work (rarely see Army, actually). I am a soccer coach, and have coached the kids of Navy SEALs, Squadron Commanders, Captains, and other high ranking enlisted and officers. I have only once had to put someone in their place for throwing rank at me (a "former Navy SEAL" trying to teach me about developing 9yos into leaders). My team manager's husband (he's high ranking, and only has a handful of superiors in the region) had to put him in his place.
Most everyone else is like "I serve, you serve...we both do our jobs, now: back to soccer"
Ranks don't even come up in most conversations, even when discussing our careers, how long we've been in, etc.

Now, at work, we have a bunch of ass-kissers who try to make every little achievement they "earn" into a gold star on their behavior chart. I've heard that whole "SPC (P) ____ outranks you" bullshit about people who don't know their ass from the tail end of a horse. Let alone how to actually do the job their MOS entails. Also have an NCO running our clinic who screws up almost daily, and then blows us up for not covering his ass.
My #1 rule: I don't give a damn about your rank, respect is earned by knowing how to do your job, and DOING IT..... Which is why I have a hard time respecting the active duty I work with..... (respect the rank, not the person)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 11:37 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:37:42 -0400

I agree completely, and extend that to those currently serving (though being mindful of fraternization regulations). Even now as I move into more senior officer ranks, many of my best friends and yes, mentors are NCOs. We just have different jobs.

Generally (there are a few exceptions for very close friends) when someone is of higher rank, I will us Sir or Ma'am, even off-duty, though even with seniors I am often first name off-duty with closer friends. My situation is probably a bit different than most in that I spent many years enlisted and am about 15 years older than most at my rank, and consequently most of those I'm closest to are a grade or two above me.

Higher or lower rank should never alter respect, ever.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made May 17 at 2016 11:40 AM

CPL Sharon Fahey — Tue, 17 May 2016 11:40:37 -0400

I always thought it was because spouses live in the shadow of their spouses when it pertains to military service so in order to get out of the shadow they take on their spouses rank in order to get attention or praise for what they feel is service also. My sister does the same thing, sometimes you'd think she actually earned a purple heart. Being a spouse can be a lonely, thankless job and for many, unappreciated by the

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 12:20 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:20:11 -0400

Rank Card? What rank does a dependent earn, ever?! The answer is none, and using a wife/husbands rank to develop some sort of caste system is unacceptable.

If anyone cares to teach their significant others what duties and responsibilities come with a higher rank: when you are in the field, the most junior in the unit eats first, the most senior eat last if at all. SNCOs and officers are supposed to put the lower ranks ahead of their own self interests.

That's called fu@&!ng leadership; you lead from the front, and by example, and never use your rank as a crutch to lean on- so your spouse shouldn't either. If anything a spouse should do everything she can to support the rank and file, not abuse his/her privilege- after all s/he married into this lifestyle.

My significant other spends whatever downtime she has monitoring our sections FB page, attends almost every family function, and still makes time to go to the hospital when one of my Marines has a new baby, or even checking in on recently married/pregnant spouses. She doesn't ask for special treatment, and the boys refer to her as "Mrs. Staff Sergeant". That is commitment; teach that lesson to your significant others.

Response by SrA DannyDanielle Archer made May 17 at 2016 12:21 PM

SrA DannyDanielle Archer — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:21:07 -0400

The whole cast or hierarchy system of the military is a hard system to overcome. We spend years having to conform to it and it by default becomes second nature. While most of us can transition out and maintain only the auspices of respect for each other and the service we performed together, our family members don't always adjust as well. Many of the spouses that I encounter in my law practice still have a mentality of being involved in this "cast" structure. My usual advice to them is to become a member of a civic organization or the VFW/Legion Aux. where they can become involved in a leadership role to act as an outlet for their propensities. So far so good. Have had marked success doing this for over ten years now.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 12:21 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:21:16 -0400

That's dependapotamus behaviour, wives have always done that.

Response by Brennan Wells made May 17 at 2016 12:29 PM

Brennan Wells — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:29:12 -0400

As a brat, I grew up addressing people by their rank as an honorific. You earned it, I'll respect it. If I can see it on your uniform, I'll call you by your rank and name. I still tend to use the rank as an honorific for retirees, although it's normally O-5 or E-7 and above. I think it's a mark of recognition until I'm told otherwise. My Father-in-Law is a Navy Captain, and when I engaged his daughter, he said 'you can probably call me Ed now'. I said, 'Fine Sir, but Captain Ed sounds stupid." I still call him, and all his friends, Sir.

Response by LTC Mark Beattie made May 17 at 2016 12:44 PM

LTC Mark Beattie — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:44:25 -0400

It's repulsive to hear that an individual's military rank would have a bearing on how someone was treated while on active duty or after. In my opinion, anyone who relies on their rank or their spouses rank to influence how they treat another is very insecure and lacks self confidence. At least in part, they hide behind the rank to conceal their own perceived shortcomings and would benefit from professional counseling. The best response to this behavior, though difficult, is to simply ignore it.

Response by SFC Arai Pooley made May 17 at 2016 12:45 PM

SFC Arai Pooley — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:45:41 -0400

Sir,
With respect . . . . You outrank her husband. It may be a matter of service component. In either case it is obvious that the other's wife has not adjusted well to retirement. If you were to avoid them, I doubt you will miss their company.

Enjoy your retirement.

Response by CW3 Stephen Mills made May 17 at 2016 1:01 PM

CW3 Stephen Mills — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:01:19 -0400

Doesn't sound like we as Veterans have the problem, sounds like the lady with the problem has a problem. Not withstanding though, even with the rank card I don't understand why a Majors wife would have a stereotype problem with a Col's wife.

Spouses self identifying with the rank or profession of their significant other is personal problem that shows a lack of self identity and/or feelings of personal accomplishment.

Respect is respect, showing respect isn't the same as actually respecting someone. I could call you by your rank or first name and still have or not have the same level of respect for you. Respect is earned by the individual, not awarded.

I always hated the phrase respect the rank not the individual. I don't have to respect rank or an individual, all I have to do is show respect to the individual because of their rank. It might be semantics, but to me its very different. I try to treat everybody with the same level of respect regardless of rank or if they deserve it or not anyway.

IN other words, Saying "sir, please put your hands behind your back" doesn't change the fact you are still in handcuffs.

Response by SSG Michael Hale made May 17 at 2016 1:25 PM

SSG Michael Hale — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:25:20 -0400

I'm a member of the American Legion. At present I'm the Division Vice Commander. There is no rank within the Legion. I've met with 2 & 3 Star Generals in the Legion and they still talk & treat me as a equal

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 1:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:27:54 -0400

I had a spouse of a lieutenant tell me her husband was going to take my rocker. The military is slowly loosing it's common sense. If my wife ever used my rank for herself she would be the one getting an ass chewing. While our spouse do deserve respect they have 0 athority and have not done an thing any other spouse has not done.

Response by Maj John D Benedict made May 17 at 2016 1:33 PM

Maj John D Benedict — Tue, 17 May 2016 13:33:08 -0400

To be honest, I thought we left rank behind when we retired. As for spouses, they could go sign up. Recruiters are still looking for personnel...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 2:07 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:07:49 -0400

If it weren't for rank, that person would default to some other civilian status, or would resort to mental gymnastics to derive some other way to put herself over others. You'll find insecure, narcissistic people like that in all walks of life. She's doing your wife a favor by not being her friend... You really don't want people like that as friends anyways.

Response by SFC Rich Gomez made May 17 at 2016 2:20 PM

SFC Rich Gomez — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:20:27 -0400

The problem does not lie with your wife or you and really not your military rank or stature in life, the problem is with the Major's wife, she sounds like a very shallow lifeless person who feels she must judge by false standards. I suggest that you, your wife and friends not judge this woman but attemp to approach her with some degree of humility and understanding, try to bring her into your fold to allow her to really know who you guy's are to understand without judgement..... let go of the anger and hurt as it won't solve anything, move on "Life gets better when childish one up-man-ship is no longer given credence.." I wish you success.....

Response by MSgt Fred Gottshalk made May 17 at 2016 2:30 PM

MSgt Fred Gottshalk — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:30:58 -0400

My experiences are that many officers' wives wear their husbands' rank much more voraciously than the officer. That is what makes that officer, in most cases, more comfortable to be with; they understand their wives.

Response by SSG Billy Dewberry made May 17 at 2016 2:45 PM

SSG Billy Dewberry — Tue, 17 May 2016 14:45:28 -0400

I can't answer the question, but I have been out of the Army since 1995 and USAA still correspond to me as SGT. Make no mistake about it I am proud of my service, but I like the GS13 better than the SGT part.

Response by SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) made May 17 at 2016 3:48 PM

SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) — Tue, 17 May 2016 15:48:08 -0400

Because dependapotomuses think what thier husbands sacrificed is theirs by bed right. I DESPISE spouses who pull rank cards. They all have the same rank....either Mrs., or EX. As a veteran when I see it in civilian mode I say exactly what I just wrote, too!!!

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made May 17 at 2016 4:09 PM

SSG Ronald Rollins — Tue, 17 May 2016 16:09:24 -0400

Sir, I served in the Marine Corps and the Army. I do not play the rank card. I give respect to all, no matter the rank. I still call officers Sir or Ma'am. I refer to NCO's and others by their rank. It is just the way I was taught. I am retired, yes, but respect is deserved by all. Not liking someone because of service they are or were in or the rank they earned is petty and childish. I will give respect until I am given a reason not to. Even then I may give a second chance. But blatant disrespect should not be tolarated by anyone, no matter the rank or status..

Response by SSG Don Maggart made May 17 at 2016 4:26 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Tue, 17 May 2016 16:26:18 -0400

I went to Air Assault School 1 Week after getting a Titanium pin placed in my left ankle if it's mind over matter so be it I saw people fall out on the fun run's..

MilitantCrip

Response by GySgt Robert Harbick made May 17 at 2016 4:30 PM

GySgt Robert Harbick — Tue, 17 May 2016 16:30:35 -0400

That is a problem more prone to individuals than whole groups. But I have seen it more often coming from retired Army and Air Force Officers, and from graduates of certain military schools.

Response by SPC Neil Hood made May 17 at 2016 5:00 PM

SPC Neil Hood — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:00:26 -0400

I'm proud of my service. Rank at this point is something I once held. I now have two bachelors degrees and yes I was a only a SPC but that doesn't mean you should disrespect me professionally. Or anyone else for that matter.

Response by SrA Rae Amos made May 17 at 2016 5:21 PM

SrA Rae Amos — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:21:17 -0400

I've never understood why people try to pull the rank card. It's so high school. If you're proud that you achieved a certain rank, that's fine. But don't make that your whole thing. BRACC closed my unit so I went IRR early, and I wish I hadn't because I wanted to achieve Sgt, but being an E-4 when I got out wasn't a bad thing. Especially since I was in for just under 5 years and spent nearly the first two years waiting for my Top Secret.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 17 at 2016 5:50 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 17 May 2016 17:50:23 -0400

There will always be women who live through their spouse like that.

If it is happening when you are retired that is stupid because once you are a veteran most people leave that crap at the door.

Response by MG Alan Salisbury made May 17 at 2016 6:24 PM

MG Alan Salisbury — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:24:41 -0400

It has little to do with active, veteran or retired status. It has everything to do with mind-set. Snobbery (and that's what it really is) is snobbery whether in our out of the military. Civilian life is full of social status snobbery as well. Perhaps the opposite personal characteristic is "class." No spouse should be defined by the rank of their spouse. They need to be comfortable with who they are in their own right. A general's wife can be very comfortable interacting on a personal basis with the wife of an E-4. And the E-4 wife should simply be herself. Both of them would demonstrate class in that situation.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made May 17 at 2016 6:33 PM

LCpl James Robertson — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:33:19 -0400

I knew of a Colonel and a Major both retired veterans living next door to each other, each morning that the Major headed out the door to go to work in his business, the Colonel would run out the door and start raising the American Flag, interrupting him from getting in his car, that lasted about a year before the Major called the Police, the Colonel called him unpatriotic. Some retired veterans has physically left the military, but mentally they are still there. Another example I had some business to attend to at the Social Security Office, the moment I walked in I knew the Security Officer behind the desk were a Marine Veteran, he had rules and regulation you had to cite for standing on Federal property, if you could not read, he cited all regulations to you, on what were allowed in the building, and after a brief search, no cellphones were allowed knives, weapons of any kind, no prescription medicine, or illegal drugs, no smoking on the premises, and if you had any of those items you had to quickly return them to your vehicle after that you could sign in by computer, and wait for your number to be called. I can say that were easy for me it just felt like I were back at Parris Island. The civilians, he had to repeat things to, most were very angry. I said all this to remind veterans that military procedures can't leave you overnight, I'm still doing things the way I learned in the military.

Response by SSG Ray Cherry made May 17 at 2016 6:41 PM

SSG Ray Cherry — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:41:18 -0400

Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate a little bit here. Senior Field and Flag Officer's wives do have (semi-unwritten) duties and responsibilities as their husband's spouses (or at least they used to) such as being the welcoming committee for the Junior Officer's wives just arriving at the post, hosting VIPs and overseeing Family events at the post. Junior Officer wives often performed similar functions for Enlisted spouses.

So, yes, they do deserve a little bit of respect.

However, that all being said, they shouldn't use it as an excuse to lord over other spouses.

One of my last CG's wife was a sweet old gal who saved the HQ Staff from hours of boredom by often getting up and physically taking the microphone away from her husband when she decided he had talked enough.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made May 17 at 2016 6:52 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:52:21 -0400

I call you Colonel most of the time I reply to you out of respect for your accomplishments in service to our country but not as a requirement since neither of us are active now. I don't see how pulling the rank card affects my attitude toward you or anyone else and would only be irritated if they tried to demand that of me. If a person were condescending enough to demand that of me that would go over like a lead balloon so I have no idea why they'd try that with me. Personally even if you were to tell me it was alright to call you Mike I'd probably still address you as Colonel; you deserve at least that and your wife deserves the benefit of your status to me. I hope that is an understandable answer Colonel.

Response by SP5 Tom Carlson made May 17 at 2016 6:52 PM

SP5 Tom Carlson — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:52:46 -0400

I'ts a yes sir no sir situation for me regardless of whom they are , until the other person tells me otherwise. As for the wives some have more problems than others.... I remember my Sgt Majors wife in Germany had ordered my wife to do some thing........... that did not work.25 wives quit the Nco wives club that day.

Response by PFC Matt Duncan made May 17 at 2016 6:54 PM

PFC Matt Duncan — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:54:27 -0400

Brother, I've actually not seen that since I left the Army in '92, but obviously I'm only one Joe. I meet another vet, I look him or her in the eye, shake hands like my daddy taught me and carry on the conversation with respect to their service and their mutual respect for mine. I have yet to have any vet (and I'm in and around Branson, MO mind you) tell me their rank when being introduced. And really, folks - I was a lowly PFC in the AirCav, so it's not like I have a lot to brag on personally - but I did the duty and you did too.

Response by PO1 Scott Cottrell made May 17 at 2016 6:56 PM

PO1 Scott Cottrell — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:56:32 -0400

A family member pulling rank always made me laugh. I have seen it too many times. As a Navy brat, and now retired Navy myself, There was only one time I ever pulled my father's rank and that was because a family member had pulled rank on me. I have told this story before on this site, but can do it again.
While stationed at my first duty station, as a lowly E-3, I would park my truck in a parking lot beside my BQ. The lot was between the BQ and the auto hobby shop. Well, a LT Commander's son did not like it that my truck was parked there, had let a note saying I was parked in his spot. There was a few spots assigned to the auto hobby shop, but I was not parked in any of those. Anyway, while at work I received a phone call from the Lt Commander telling me I could no longer park in that lot. I told him it was an open lot and I had the right to park there. And if he wanted me to move my truck because his son wanted to park there, then he could call my father, and make sure he referred to him as Captain Cottrell. Never heard back from the Lt Commander or his son again.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made May 17 at 2016 7:11 PM

CW3 Susan Burkholder — Tue, 17 May 2016 19:11:27 -0400

I don't know why your wife was treated badly, but aren't you mixing and matching here? You say your wife but then go on about veterans and retired pulling their rank cards out and comparing them. A lot of family members don't understand the rank and it's official or unofficial rules and traditions and customs. Some never will. People have their own opinions about the military. My husband - one time we crossed paths with a retired school teacher he had while in high school at an antique show. He was excited to catch up with him and introduce me. The retired school teacher was also retired from the Reserves. My husband said "Sergeant C______, this is my wife, Warrant Officer Susan" The *Sergeant* responded "SERGEANT? Did you just call me SERGEANT?" My husband looked at him blankly. I looked at my husband quizzically. Then the *sergeant* turned to me and introduced himself as Colonel C_______. I said ahh, I understand and smoothed things over. We had a good laugh all of us, but not really. My husband to this day still doesn't really understand what happened. After many a discussion about it between the two of us.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made May 17 at 2016 8:32 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Tue, 17 May 2016 20:32:25 -0400

Sir, BLUF it's an inherited stereotype that's is "likely" to never gonna go away. As a Warrant Officer, I inherited being perceived as a technical expert, even if as a W1, when in fact I was as skillful as I was 2 months ago as an NCO. This is a good inheritance and welcomed. But then there are the hurtful ones: you went Warrant cause you couldn't take it as an NCO or couldn't make E7 or E8 etc.. Even though only the top NCOs can apply to become a Warrant Officer. And 99% of us did it to become something else not run away from less responsibility. There are many other stereotypes for us Warrants but for the most part our spouses are not stereotyped as it is my opinion that most of them would just tell the other spouse to eat sh*t and d*e!

Response by Cpl Tim Braun made May 17 at 2016 8:52 PM

Cpl Tim Braun — Tue, 17 May 2016 20:52:10 -0400

I must admit that every once in awhile when I meet another veteran, and rank comes up somehow, my back stiffens a little if they were an officer. I guess some habits never die.

I try not to bring up rank when talking with other veterans. I usually shake their hand and introduce myself as Tim. If they bring up rank fine but usually the handshake is firm and they reply with their first name. I haven't had anyone try to pull the rank card on me. All of the veterans I have come into contact with have introduced themselves with their name and have been very polite and excited to meet another veteran. Maybe I'm just lucky.

When I was on active duty wives pulled the rank card a lot at Camp Pendleton. One even tried yelling at me for not saluting her. I informed her that we salute officers, not their civilian spouses. She left in a huff but didn't push the matter too much after that. To me that is a sign of insecurity and reflects poorly upon the spouse. The good spouses seem to come from families of good soldiers.

Response by PO2 David Allender made May 17 at 2016 9:15 PM

PO2 David Allender — Tue, 17 May 2016 21:15:59 -0400

It sounds like she has a personal problem. Might want to talk to her husband about the situation before something really bad happens, and it will. If her husband is a good Marine, and I think all Marines are goo, being sailor; he should be informed of what his wife is doing and let them work it out.

Response by MAJ Michele Bretz made May 17 at 2016 9:53 PM

MAJ Michele Bretz — Tue, 17 May 2016 21:53:14 -0400

At the time I was on active duty, I met an enlisted wife who's husband went to language school. The wives were told by the CSM to get in a line with the senior most wife at the front down to the least senior. The CSM finally said, "Sit down, none of you have rank, your husbands' do." End of story.

Response by Capt Michael Halpin made May 17 at 2016 10:14 PM

Capt Michael Halpin — Tue, 17 May 2016 22:14:55 -0400

Once you are a veteran or retired most of us don't get hung up on rank. Some of my best friends were enlisted. The friendly insults fly both ways, of course. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made May 17 at 2016 10:35 PM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Tue, 17 May 2016 22:35:25 -0400

It happens because some people who have no skills, and nothing going fir them luck up and marry to their polar opposite. The term dependent spouse my not be politically correct, but it truly describes that type accurately. I've seen my wife treated shabbily at a unit function because as soon as the Major's wife realized her kids were playing with an enlisted man's kids she shiekded hers like mine had the plague. I've seen deoendents stop the car and get out demanding 'their' salute because they are driving a car registered on base by an officer. Neither event ended well. Regardless of rank I will correct a gross injustice on the spot as required.

Response by SGT John Little made May 17 at 2016 10:54 PM

SGT John Little — Tue, 17 May 2016 22:54:51 -0400

Sir,
I loved the question you proposed. In response I would like to give you a couple points of view.
1st.. unfortunately rank stigma is a part of leadership and has been since the Roman empire, so has the private been jealous of the sergeant of course, he learns to be a private as does the LT getting jealous of the Major of course: so the rank card has been a part of the ranks for a long time.
I retired, but not at a high rank, honestly I didn't fare well at all compared to my peers.
I was not jealous, I played the cards I was dealt. With that being said, I would think a spouse reacts to the actions of the other spouse and his or her reactions to the higher would then be influenced and an opinion is formed. The jealous factor can be based on many factors,,, example..
SFC Joe Snuffy did 4 combat tours and two peace keeping tours, former Recruiter or Drill, and his fellow SFC did 2 tours nothing else but had better ratings etc, you get the picture. His vocal point at home is not that as it would be in front of his peers, his or her anger at home is WTF,,,, now the spouse is now influenced and the results is opinions are now being formed. Why well the obvious factor is the long term benefits. You also mention the difference in service as you well know for a Marine to make 0 5 or better by the numbers compared to an 0 5 in the Army is obvious with that being considered in your situation. The Marine Corp has way fewer 0 5 positions or 0 6 Positions than that of the Army .... By the basic numbers the Army has just shy of 500,000 and the Marines just shy of 120,000 active troops in boots,, so in closing maybe someone should tell her that her man just didn't make the cut and should dry her tears and move on because it is based on the whole person not the rank not the position not the tour or the assignment they served but how well they served in the positions and education the garnered their promotions. Troops don't bad mouth is you didn't make the cut try harder and move on don't blame someone else for your short comings (sorry so long)
Respectfully Sgt. Little (retired)

Response by SFC Derrick Graves made May 17 at 2016 11:13 PM

SFC Derrick Graves — Tue, 17 May 2016 23:13:45 -0400

I think this wife's attitude has been cultivated by her husband who probably conducts himself in the same manner when he's around service members of lesser rank. As a retiree during my active duty me and my wife started off as young couple and she was exposed to the promotion process early during my journey from E-1 until my entrance into the senior NCO ranks. My wife always treated other spouses the way she wanted to be treated with respect and courtesy regardless of their husbands rank. I would say her attitude was developed based on how I conducted myself around other soldiers (dignity and respect). But unfortunately you have a small percentage of spouses and their sponsors who thrive off this type of behavior and hopefully are put in check by the majority of us that don't value snobs in our military.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 11:45 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 23:45:59 -0400

While I won't generalize, I am truly surprised that someone would behave that way. We all owe our liberty to those who had to sacrifice the most or at least paid the greatest cost for it. I am lucky that I get to volunteer with so many who can share their military service experience with the public. I am honored to just be on the retired list.

Response by A1C Jeff D. made May 18 at 2016 12:45 AM

A1C Jeff D. — Wed, 18 May 2016 00:45:59 -0400

Experience here: I have seen this happen sometimes when General officers join the American Legion. They try to pull rank when they don't get their way. I have had to remind them, There is NO rank in the American Legion.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made May 18 at 2016 1:20 AM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Wed, 18 May 2016 01:20:45 -0400

Because it is all they know.

I don't get on this site and judge by rank. I might judge by age more than anything. I saw the army from the purview of a Specialist. I actually turned down an academic appointment to West Point the year before I joined. But in hindsight , I always view mustang officers through my years of being in, as being better officers than any of military schools or ROTC programs ever spat out.

We are all veterans here. How you generate respect here, is not based on rank, but who you are. The diamonds, be they privates or generals will always shine through the dirt. And as you get older, the idea of 'dirt" changes.

Even the smallest cog in the wheel of the big machine does something, no one should really really throw out the 'rank card' except as applicable to dealing with supervising many people. In that function people of higher ranks do have more experience than others, so their experience in that area must be respected, same as you respect a mechanic who worked on engines for the same amount of of time. Life experience is an impossible thing to judge on an online forum and given a few minutes.

Response by MSG Carlos Guerrero made May 18 at 2016 2:02 AM

MSG Carlos Guerrero — Wed, 18 May 2016 02:02:41 -0400

I've found this to be more of a concern with Officers than enlisted personnel. Recently myself and a friend were helping my father get some propane, and a retired COL told the attendant that myself and my friend looked like enlisted Soldiers. He quickly seemed to elevate himself to the attendant and act like we were beneath him in some way. I'm proud of my achievements in the Army, but rank doesn't hold any bearing in the civilian world. I've ran across many civilians that couldn't tell you the difference between a Sergeant and a COL. The stereotyping by rank is even more blurred these days, because many enlisted members are similarly educated. I personally could care less what your rank was while you served. I judge people by their character and our interactions. You have to be way too into yourself if you're still relating your veteran status to your rank. As far as the spouse, I find it ridiculous that spouse think they wear the same pay grade as their spouse. To carry that on over after they've become a veteran baffles me. If your success in life is based on your previous military background, you may need to reevaluate your life choices.

Response by SrA Leah Murchie made May 18 at 2016 2:19 AM

SrA Leah Murchie — Wed, 18 May 2016 02:19:59 -0400

Honestly it was probably jealousy is the only reason I can think of because if it was based on rank then there should have been respect. Obviously a flaw in the other woman's character because behind a great man is an even greater woman. ;)

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made May 18 at 2016 2:27 AM

SGT Keith Boettcher — Wed, 18 May 2016 02:27:20 -0400

This has been an ongoing problem with all military branches and ranks. When anyone walks up to me and introduces themselves by rank and name and then state that they are retired, I asked them their first name and call them by their first name, or Mrs.Smith. Some people tell me that I am wrong and I should address and recognize them by their rank because they earned it. My response is hogwash!
I retired as a Special Agent. So, should everyone address me as Special Agent?
now the other problem is the biggest! Dependents wearing the service members rank ANC walking around the Base and community throwing the service members rank around with their name.
They seen to have forgotten that they are a military dependent and nothing other than except also, a civilian. So, they have no legal rights to being the rank.
It all comes sown to; arrogance, false self-esteem, and false since of powder.
during my time of military life which has been over 37 years
I have seen it strongly an use to discipline and preforms an on the spot correction. I use to get a lot of butt chewing for it, but, I had a LTG and CSM to back me up.
To this day when I see or hear some introduce themselves; "afternoon, I'm retired 1SG blahblabla"
I just look and laugh but, the funnies is the name an rank on the mailboxes.
The way I see it your retired, I'm retired she's retired, he's retired, "GET A FREAKING LIFE'

Response by PO2 Matthew Barnebey made May 18 at 2016 4:27 AM

PO2 Matthew Barnebey — Wed, 18 May 2016 04:27:29 -0400

Even though I have completely left the service and was at the end of the day only a petty officer, I would like to identify myself occasionally by my rank to depict what I accomplished. I agree if it is true with others if you introduce yourself by your old rank all the time, you are probably are an insecure person. I had a largely average career but at the end of the day I want to promote the accomplishments of my time in the service with pride beginning with my Navy Achievement Medal all the way down to showing off my old overseas service ribbons occasionally. There are some veterans that embellish their careers significantly especially those who may run for public office and they have not achieved as much as I did and I can relate to the feelings of other accomplished veterans that may feel offended by this, particularly those who lie about serving only stateside for instance.

Response by SFC Ethan Graves made May 18 at 2016 7:25 AM

SFC Ethan Graves — Wed, 18 May 2016 07:25:18 -0400

Some people are just trash and never had anything, you will see this with civilians too. Hince why they have to be addressed by something long after it is over. The funniest thing about the spouses pulling rank was that none of them have earned it themselves.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made May 18 at 2016 8:11 AM

CPT Kurk Harris — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:11:29 -0400

A friend of mine who was an enlisted member and spouse of a junior officer (back in the days when that was allowed) was at a unit FRG meeting. As they were trying to assign seating for the meeting/meal. The BN CDRs wife said that since she was married to the commander, she would sit at the head of the table. My friend replied that since she was an active duty soldier, and the only one present with rank of her own, that she would take the seat at the head of the table. I'm not sure how it all turned out, but she did say the LTC's wife stopped trying to throw her husband's rank around where my friend was concerned and there were never any repercussions for my friend's husband.

Response by MSgt Kerry Lundy made May 18 at 2016 8:13 AM

MSgt Kerry Lundy — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:13:58 -0400

This reminds me of an incident I encountered in the commissary while stationed in Germany. It was clearly posted that personnel in uniform were allowed to go to the head of the line during the lunch hour times. If I remember correctly this was 1100-1300 HRS. I was informed by one woman that she was Mrs. General so and so and I politely informed her that I realized that I am only a lowly E7 but I have never encountered that rank before and pointed out the sign from the Community Commander's office. That was the only time in my 21 years of service I encountered this. Some of the sweetest and most helpful ladies my wife encountered were the spouses of Officers ranging in the ranks from 2Lt thru MajGen. I was often addressed by my first name by the officers I worked for as well as those I was associated with through my jobs. Sometimes they did not like what I had to say but part of my job I felt was to protect my officers and keep them out trouble with their superiors. Yes, I was addressed by first name often times but always in the appropriate setting. I served with some great officers and I always strived to make myself a valuable asset to them. I did run into some who were aloof and snarky usually young Lts who were still "in training". One of the greatest complements I received was from a young brand new 2Lt who told me his first job was to watch,listen and learn from me.

Response by LCpl William Perry made May 18 at 2016 8:47 AM

LCpl William Perry — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:47:28 -0400

Out of all my friends that were military we all refer to each other by our names. Some of us were enlisted while others went on to hold officer rank but now we are just friends who can relate to the world we use to live in and now. This also holds true as one of my friends was a doctor and I call him by his name not Doctor each time I see him... : ). In my view it is the wife of the officer who has the problem not you sir...Semper Fi!

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 8:57 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:57:42 -0400

My thoughts-
In this instance, it is a mental disorder of the psyche, temporary or permanent we will not know. Lack of emotional intelligence, narcissism, ego are all mental disorders which affect ones social etiquette and social conduct. Call it what you will, but anyone who attaches and identifies him or herself to any title, rank, object, or thing has already lost the battle. It is the ego. Why would anyone even concern themselves with what others think or how they are treated? It is a waste of time and energy. Be compassionate in your ways towards others regardless. Whether it be contemptuous language, rudeness, mistreatment or verbal abuse, one should not be upset by such insignificant matters of life, but feel sadness and compassion for the person who is obviously ignorant and has sickness of the mind. Compassion is the hearts gift to the rational mind. A human being should be treated with respect and honor at all times. If you are not treated in such a manner, this is a time for compassion and reflection, not judgement. To surrender ego is the key. When one has distorted visions of life, suffering is inevitable. You are not good or bad, it is that you have unconsciously chosen to identify yourself with all that is before you, dividing you further from the truth, the reality. The question is how long will you remain in this state? Do not waste another second of your life on this silly matter! Go out and enjoy life!
Patrick (lost my ego and rank long ago)

Response by LTC Tom Jones made May 18 at 2016 10:21 AM

LTC Tom Jones — Wed, 18 May 2016 10:21:18 -0400

Rumor--I say again, rumor--has it that General Omar Bradley's second wife, Kitty, was the absolute worst for this kind of behavior. Anyone with first hand experience with their situation?

Response by MSgt William Shimmin made May 18 at 2016 10:27 AM

MSgt William Shimmin — Wed, 18 May 2016 10:27:27 -0400

Mike, some people simply can't feel validated within themselves unless they have a hierarchy status platform to rely on. Personal insecurity drives it. It's the same goofball psychology driving people to one up one another, or play the age old game of "keeping up with the Jones'". For some they have to BE the Jones.

Response by MAJ Glenn Lasater made May 18 at 2016 10:54 AM

MAJ Glenn Lasater — Wed, 18 May 2016 10:54:44 -0400

Your post is somewhat confusing. You question why veterans and active duty members stereotype by rank and then describe a spouse dissing you wife. Last I checked, spouses were neither service members nor veterans.

Active duty personnel (not their spouses) are required to use proper military courtesy toward subordinates and superiors alike for many reasons, not the least of which is good order and discipline. Veterans are not bound by such requirements and, in my experience, only refer to their rank and service when involved in veteran's organizations such as the VFW or American Legion and even then, it's not used for position or privilege.

Retired service members are a different category of veteran. Retired members are permitted to wear their uniform and use their rank and branch under many different circumstances and have certainly earned those privileges.

I have not experienced situations where any veteran or retired member that I know has stereotyped anyone by previous or retired rank. More often than not the vets and retirees that I deal with identify more with their branch of service than with their rank or position. Good natured ribbing and competition between the services is common and builds camaraderie and a sense of brotherhood.

Response by CW3 Geoffrey Cline made May 18 at 2016 11:25 AM

CW3 Geoffrey Cline — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:25:12 -0400

This type of "class warfare" will never change, unfortunately. I think the exception for me was the Warrant Officers. Point in fact, at a Dining In, there were about 25 of us "Warrants" in the group. As you may know, you take your seat by rank and date of rank. When it came to the first WO (a CW4; CW5 did not exist then), we ALL sat down at once. Of course, Mr. Vice was hit with multiple requests that we be "fined", but the President of the Mess stated that a unified Wolf Pack howl was adequate. Which we rendered. With gusto. Gladly.

Response by SSG Leonard Galvan made May 18 at 2016 11:37 AM

SSG Leonard Galvan — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:37:57 -0400

You don't need friends like that. The wife must be made to realize that their husband wears the rank. That does not apply to her. As far as the uniformed services are concerned, the spouse is a just a tag along. While stationed at West Point Military Academy, I met several wives that thought they wore the same rank as their husbands. My wife couldn't care less what rank I was or our friends were. Real friends don't need to play that game. We were the ones serving. It is an insecure spouse that has to play that game. My thoughts.

Response by LTC James Bozeman made May 18 at 2016 11:43 AM

LTC James Bozeman — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:43:36 -0400

I find that this type of behavior does continue after people leave the service. I agree with MAJ Ginny Lee that this is a sign of insecurity and self-identity. Most senior people have worked diligently to through a major portion of their life to achieve seniority in the military or in the civilian world and take pride in that achievement and want to brag a bit. I have military friends who self identify as General So and So or Command Sergeant Major So and So - I also have civilian friends who self identify as The Honorable or Judge or Officer or Vice President So and So - it is a way of saying what they have accomplished and I believe people should be proud of those accomplishments especially when working with peers in those communities. However when someone uses that rank or station to improperly influence someone else - to do wrong or to get something I believe they have stepped over the line. I personally try not to make it a big deal where I work as I am just another staff-person who is trying to make things better for the Veteran. I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect - but that lesson is lost on some people. IMHO, the most serious offenders of this Rank Consciousness are SOME spouses of former military officers who long for those glory days when they viewed themselves as imbued (either rightly or incorrectly) and empowered by their service member's status. In regards to the original post, I believe the person who accosted the Major's wife was a bigot - if it hadn't been rank it would have been some other qualifier - age, gender, social status, culture, ethnicity, religion. For some reason the person didn't like your spouse. I apologize for their poor behavior and hope that your spouse won't judge the rest of us because of that one person.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 11:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:53:46 -0400

That's just ridiculous. Sorry your wife had to go through that.

Response by Sgt Tammy Wallace made May 18 at 2016 12:15 PM

Sgt Tammy Wallace — Wed, 18 May 2016 12:15:03 -0400

....because old habits are hard to break....especially harmless ones....

Response by PO1 Kevin Arnold made May 18 at 2016 12:42 PM

PO1 Kevin Arnold — Wed, 18 May 2016 12:42:42 -0400

Unfortunately, with some the rank card will always be played. Yes being retired does mean we can relax around those officers who also have retired. However, rank has always been am issue because it's in all of us to do exactly that. When active duty I could only be friends within my rank if they were stationed with me. So, to make it easier for me I usually stayed around those that were the same rank. Did not want any suggestions that I was playing favorites or anything else like fraternizing with subordinates. Well it's hard for some to get out of that mindset and if wives or husbands were married to them while active duty they had to get used to the fact that they can't be friends with others who are lower rank than their spouce. That is hard for others that want to be friends even being civilians feel they can't be because of their spouses rank. Make friends with other people not in the military or had served in the military is also hard because they don't understand the sacrifice that their significant other played in their life both in and out of the military.

Response by COL Dale Dahlke made May 18 at 2016 1:18 PM

COL Dale Dahlke — Wed, 18 May 2016 13:18:17 -0400

I run into many of the soldiers I served with although we are all retired we us the rank as a term of respect for each other.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 18 at 2016 1:33 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Wed, 18 May 2016 13:33:16 -0400

Face it some folks think they are better because of rank.

Response by Cpl Maggie Hundshamer made May 18 at 2016 6:56 PM

Cpl Maggie Hundshamer — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:56:25 -0400

I think it's part of simulating back into society. When you live by a certain standard for so long it is almost near impossible to not continue the learned behavior.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made May 18 at 2016 7:37 PM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:37:09 -0400

I still call a couple of my former LT sir.

Response by PFC Elmer Baysinger made May 18 at 2016 7:47 PM

PFC Elmer Baysinger — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:47:47 -0400

I think that at times rank of ones spouse should be over looked. Learn to work together.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made May 18 at 2016 8:44 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Wed, 18 May 2016 20:44:03 -0400

@ Sir we all make sacrifices some small some large so as a sign of respect we Honor those who went before Pathfinders if you're Airborne why knock something that isn't broken???... MilitantCrip

Response by SSG Don Maggart made May 18 at 2016 8:46 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Wed, 18 May 2016 20:46:56 -0400

I'm about to take my cocktail 2 meds to let me keep down the shake 3 for seizures 4 for my livers lack of function thanks VA...MilitantCrip

Response by PO3 Frank Opalecky made May 18 at 2016 9:50 PM

PO3 Frank Opalecky — Wed, 18 May 2016 21:50:23 -0400

I think it depends on the circumstance. As the first person to talk to interviewees at my last job, I loved to see fellow vets come in. Most of the time I had already researched their military job so I knew if the position they were applying for was in their military wheel house. I only had 1 bad experience where a retired army E8 made a comment like "you only made E4 in 6 years and I will be direct reporting to you?" Needless to say I didn't hire him.

Response by PO3 Nicholas L. made May 19 at 2016 11:57 AM

PO3 Nicholas L. — Thu, 19 May 2016 11:57:53 -0400

I am a Navy Corpsman, rank doesn't matter now that I am a civilian. When patients ask I just say I was a Green Side Corpsman and saw my share. They thank me for my service and I always respond with Thank You for Your Support. Always get a fist pump from retirees and other vets when they see my hospital ID lanyard. I proudly display my service and my job. My years of experience speak for themsef. You leave rank behind when you get that DD214. I am and always will be "Doc"

Response by PO1 Clint Miller made May 19 at 2016 12:33 PM

PO1 Clint Miller — Thu, 19 May 2016 12:33:23 -0400

For the same reason we treat a janitor differently than a manager. Some see you as the position you holf, not as the person you are. That is hard to change, the attitude, the best you can do is rise above this yourself as actions speak louder than words.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made May 19 at 2016 12:45 PM

MSgt J D McKee — Thu, 19 May 2016 12:45:06 -0400

Because we are human, and military training sticks. Not sure about the spouses, though. Why, though, would a Major's wife not like a Colonel's wife? Jealousy? I have seen it where officers wives treated enlisted wives like some sort of lesser being, but that was active duty.

Response by SPC Benjamin Hartog made May 19 at 2016 12:52 PM

SPC Benjamin Hartog — Thu, 19 May 2016 12:52:53 -0400

Whenever I meet a military retiree I always ask them their rank at discharge. This question provides me with a comprehensive overview of the individual's achievements and their capabilities. I recently met a Navy veteran who was an E-5 after 7 years of service and he provided me with several explanations why he wasn't promoted to E-6 or E-7. He seemed almost apologetic for remaining stuck as an E-5. He is currently an undergraduate at the University of Washington and he impresses me as a rather sharp and articulate individual who conducts himself with conspicuous alacrity in the classroom. He should have been advanced in rank while he was on active duty in the Navy. He is now in the Army reserves and the transfer costs him a demotion to E-4. I think this is patently unfair and indicates that the armed forces of the United States does not provide the incentive to re-enlist for men and women who demonstrate both competence and proficiency. Thus I think that rank is no indication of both a serviceman's/service women's performance and potential. I knew many soldiers in Vietnam who were denied promotion although their education and acumen warranted it. Yet, I served under NCO's who were incapable of spelling a simple word like "trees" and were poor tacticians. I grew quickly disillusioned with the Army's rank structure and the criteria it used to promote soldiers who didn't deserve it. That was in 1967-68 however. I am sure things have changed since then.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 12:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 12:56:21 -0400

Before I retired I had a retired CSM give me a piece of advice to put my ego in check as I ventured into the civilian world: "Leave your rank at the gate and on your ID card because the real world will not give a damn about what your rank was in the military." For "official military purposes" yeah, I have to revert to the whole rank thing. But in the real world I am either "Mister". or my first name. Unless a spouse actually wears the uniform or is a veteran, they are just whatever title (Missus or Mister) they are or their first name is. Had that last lesson taught to me by a COLs wife who tried to keep things relaxed when around other spouses and other unit personnel in the interest of keeping communication going and would tell folks straight out that she was not the COL but was instead what her first name was or Mrs. Last Name if people felt they had to be formal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 1:06 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 13:06:11 -0400

Mike, I totally agree! I became a man long before I became a soldier. There are some that like to think that "rank" is a lifelong entitlement or something that seperates the classes. I judge a man or woman on their merit, not by a flimsy peice of plastic, metal or velcro patch!

Response by SGT Trisha Butler made May 19 at 2016 1:20 PM

SGT Trisha Butler — Thu, 19 May 2016 13:20:13 -0400

I don't see veterans doing this, I think it's a spouse thing, we know better.

Response by SMSgt Bob Swanson made May 19 at 2016 1:31 PM

SMSgt Bob Swanson — Thu, 19 May 2016 13:31:01 -0400

Some people cling so strongly to an identity because they feel it is their only outward sign of success in life or work. They don't feel that their inherent intelligence or other abilities make them valuable enough in the eyes of others so here they are: a "rank's" wife; a combat veteran; a retired Chief; etc. Years go by and they are still that identity even though everything around them has changed.

They cling to an identity for lack of confidence.

Usually these folks are fairly shallow anyway.

Response by LTC Jesse Edwards made May 19 at 2016 2:33 PM

LTC Jesse Edwards — Thu, 19 May 2016 14:33:36 -0400

There are some people I think who take their service so seriously that it becomes the identity in which they see themselves. There are other people who carry a grudge because of some perceived injustice during their careers. In other words, there are many reasons, as many as there are people perhaps.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made May 19 at 2016 2:42 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Thu, 19 May 2016 14:42:24 -0400

I wonder if its more of an issue on the Officer side verse the Enlisted side? I don't know the answer, just throwing the question out there.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made May 19 at 2016 3:43 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Thu, 19 May 2016 15:43:24 -0400

It's called stupidity, low self esteem, etc... Spouses have nothing to do with regards to the service member's rank. And that's the reason my wife very seldom with mingled with other officers spouses.

Response by SSG Michael Hale made May 19 at 2016 4:02 PM

SSG Michael Hale — Thu, 19 May 2016 16:02:54 -0400

Many of veterans can't adjust to the civilian society well. You have to start making that adjustment prior to exiting the military. There are programs available on Bases.

Response by MAJ L. Nicholas Smith made May 19 at 2016 4:04 PM

MAJ L. Nicholas Smith — Thu, 19 May 2016 16:04:48 -0400

Sigh. A lack of self worth and accomplishment combined with an ego that is tethered to said rank most likely because they do not feel they have done anything or enough of their own in this life. My wife has dealt with similar experiences and ignorant people/spouses. We don't even waste time thinking about those types anymore because it just feeds the monster.

Response by SFC Michael W. made May 19 at 2016 4:32 PM

SFC Michael W. — Thu, 19 May 2016 16:32:54 -0400

You earned your rank so be PROUD of it...military spouses (and some vets) will always have an issue with rank because of their own "malfunction". Stupid people will always be STUPID PEOPLE...I'm retired and don't care if active vets or veterans have an issue with my rank and have no problem checking their "six" if they become disrespectful about it. Chain of Command is STILL in effect and I have no problems addressing it to their CoC regardless of location and situation.

Response by SPC Andrew Fuller made May 19 at 2016 5:09 PM

SPC Andrew Fuller — Thu, 19 May 2016 17:09:31 -0400

This is less an issue about service members, active or retired, and more about the conduct of their spouses. I have been out a while, but hear it endlessly from the facebook Vet pages. Not unheard of from male(non-service) spouses, but more commonly seen in the female spouses. Frankly I believe it is the service members responsibility to inform their spouse on proper conduct regarding his rank. It seems it is a trend for military wives, to assume the rank of their husband, and flaunt it around post, or where ever else they think they can gain benefit from it. I believe this reflects poorly on the spouse, and ultimately the service member for not correcting the issue.

Response by PO2 Gerry Roberson Sr. made May 19 at 2016 5:23 PM

PO2 Gerry Roberson Sr. — Thu, 19 May 2016 17:23:11 -0400

If I had a PhD, someone addresses me as doctor in an official capacity, fine. I wouldn't INSIST on it every time someone gets my attention. Hell I'd rather hear, "Doc!" as one would address a corpsman.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 6:00 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 18:00:05 -0400

It's a sign if insecurity. If anything, the more senior folks should only play the rank card as a way of insisting on picking up the tab!

Response by SSgt Dugles Cherry made May 19 at 2016 8:04 PM

SSgt Dugles Cherry — Thu, 19 May 2016 20:04:50 -0400

It doesn't just happen in the U.S. Military either. Two of the ladies who worked for my former employer couldn't get along because of the disparity in rank that their husbands USED to hold in the Bulgarian Army.

Response by Sgt Dennis Gray made May 20 at 2016 3:49 AM

Sgt Dennis Gray — Fri, 20 May 2016 03:49:14 -0400

Colonel, I would expect you to know better than most, there is no "rank card" in the military. There is rank. If you and I met on Active duty, I would salute you, and you would return my salute. Both of us are entitled to be respected as members of the service. While I might get my rear end chewed out for forgetting to do so, You could wind up in real trouble for getting to return the respect. While an E-2 in training I worked details at the base gym, and waited on officers up to the base commander (full colonel) and the training center commander (2 star) Both very nice, both appreciative of the work that I was doing. I also ran afoul of a captain who liked giving trainees a hard time. My first sergeant brought this to my major who carried it back to that same general. If it weren't for an Lt Col interceding, That captain would have been a civilian. As for rank following us out of service, As an E-4 SrA. I don't get much respect from my old rank, but many retirees like to go by the title they were called for so many years and I think they deserve that respect, not because they are a chief or a general, but because they stayed in and did the job. I have still never seen one who thought his rank got him special privileges, though some do, more for the position they held. Wives are a different story. Some seem to think their husbands rank is their own. There is little that can be done for someone like this. Just remind your wife that you are glad that she is not one of "those" spouses.

Response by SFC Chad Sowash made May 20 at 2016 5:18 PM

SFC Chad Sowash — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:18:54 -0400

I agree wholeheartedly with LTC Private RallyPoint Member and would also say you will run into these "shallow" people wherever you go. It's not just the military, it's everywhere. These individuals are less evolved and self-absorbed, but that's just my opinion.

Response by MSG Don Burt made May 20 at 2016 6:13 PM

MSG Don Burt — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:13:09 -0400

There will always be pin-headed idiots that do those things, but for me I have always maintained a
courtesy towards my NCO peers and Officers alike on retirement. I would keep my distance from the other female...she won't change and your wife doesn't need to waste her time and efforts trying to appease the other one...'it ain't worth it'

Response by CW4 Leonard White made May 20 at 2016 7:49 PM

CW4 Leonard White — Fri, 20 May 2016 19:49:42 -0400

My wife was a PFC when she first met her company commander's wife, Mrs Keith Alexander. My wife thought she was a very "down to earth" lady to be married to a ARMY CAPTAIN. About 25 years later (my wife served one tour) Mrs Alexander walks into the place where my wife was working and they recognized each other and my wife said she hadn't changed a bit, still a very down to earth, easy to talk to, very friendly lady who DID NOT wear husband's rank. My wife said every time Mrs Alexander came in they would have a nice little discussion. By the way, for those who don't know, Mrs Alexander's husband was GEN Keith Alexander, the 4-star Army General who was the Director of NSA at the time. I personally know many wives who are "caught up" in their husband's ranks.

Response by PO1 Darren Martin made May 21 at 2016 9:33 AM

PO1 Darren Martin — Sat, 21 May 2016 09:33:50 -0400

I am currently in a MBA program and one of the only prior enlisted. Everyone else is/was an officer. Many still play the rank card and treat enlisted as lower than them yet we ended up at the same place.

Response by SP6 Olen Hutchins made May 21 at 2016 11:34 AM

SP6 Olen Hutchins — Sat, 21 May 2016 11:34:43 -0400

I see some things never change. When I was serving in the 70's there were those who used the rank card all the time. They were for the most part ignored. Rank has it's place but only for those who have earned it. Those who have the rank should inform their spouses that they wear the rank not them. I myself have many friends that I still address by their titles but it is out of respect. Others I address by their first names. I myself always preferred being addressed by my first name unless circumstances required otherwise.

Response by PFC Stephen Eric Serati made May 21 at 2016 12:33 PM

PFC Stephen Eric Serati — Sat, 21 May 2016 12:33:58 -0400

Outside of RallyPoint I don't refer to another Veterans rank.With that said RallyPoint is a military feed and order must still be maintained,meaning respect to ones grade is essential.RallyPoint has made it possible to see your Active,Veteran,Retired,or Civilian status.Sir

Response by Nicole Marie made May 22 at 2016 1:27 AM

Nicole Marie — Sun, 22 May 2016 01:27:18 -0400

It's very sad when a military spouse loses his/her identity and feels the need to take on his/her spouses instead. If your wife is a strong woman with her own identity that's probably the real reason this mean wife is causing so much grief.

Response by SSG Drew Cook made May 22 at 2016 12:49 PM

SSG Drew Cook — Sun, 22 May 2016 12:49:23 -0400

Kind of reminds me of that dumpy bar and grill just outside of post where all of the commanders' spouses went dancing with junior-enlisted while deployed. Everyone knew they were there because they'd let you know. I never thought it was real until I experienced it myself in Hawaii.

Response by SGT Terry Smothermon made May 22 at 2016 1:22 PM

SGT Terry Smothermon — Sun, 22 May 2016 13:22:56 -0400

Reminds me of when I first got married (I was a PFC), and my wife went to her first BN support group meeting. We had a new XO to the unit, and as the meeting began she told me that some woman stood up and announced that, since her husband was the Executive Officer of the BN, she felt it was her "duty" to help the BN commander's wife with running the group. She went on to say that it should be organized as the BN was structured, by rank of the spouse. The CSM's wife told her that she didn't care who her husband was, adding that the leader of the group was the wife of one of the First SGT's (the BN CDR's wife was a doctor at the local hospital). She went on to tell her that one of their rules was that the husbands rank was not used in their group and told her that she married the man not the rank. That impressed not only my wife, but other wives as well, and she carried that with her for the rest of our career. I'll add to that, on of my best friends retired as a LTC - he calls me Terry and I call him Chad...

Response by PO3 James Carter made May 23 at 2016 9:46 PM

PO3 James Carter — Mon, 23 May 2016 21:46:38 -0400

Mm well, after I got out and would occasionally run into some NCO's and officers, if I really respected them I would address them by rank....I also believe it's an image thing especially for the wives of high ranking NCO's and officers..'My husband, is the Brigade commander, you better listen to me or I'll get you transferred to Alaska. I also was aware of some spouses that demanded you salute them when they were going through one of the gates on a base or post...now, you're supposed to salute the blue tag because you don't really know if the officer is in the vehicle but I knew some guards who got chewed out by some wives who were, again, married to O-4's and above..

Response by Sgt Christopher Wenzel made May 24 at 2016 9:14 AM

Sgt Christopher Wenzel — Tue, 24 May 2016 09:14:37 -0400

Perhaps because military service and experience leaves such an imprint on your life. My personality has changed dramatically due to my responsibilities and former lifestyle. People either can tell that I was a Marine NCO or I get the "Oh, that explains that" reaction.

On the professional side, I was offered less money for a position due to my rank and not by my knowledge and experience. Because I was a Sergeant, it cost me $5K out of my salary, even though I operated in the billet of a Staff Sergeant/Gunnery Sergeant. Some stereotypes are harder to shake than others.

Response by SSG Douglas Quick made May 25 at 2016 10:55 AM

SSG Douglas Quick — Wed, 25 May 2016 10:55:03 -0400

Sir i believe individuals keep that mentality all throughout their lives but the ones that think they are what their spouses are is the wife/husband. I dealt with that the whole time I was a Military Police Officer and I could not understand that. We have rank because of our different responsibilities and experiences but also we have that training for that rank. Spouses think when we go up in rank they go up and I blame FRG. Everyone I went to used the rank system for issues and every single spouse used that outside that room to people they dont even know on base and i believe its stupid. Thank you wife she did not fall into that realm i have more respect for someone like that than a spouse who thinks they are an officer or nco and are just a civilian.

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made May 26 at 2016 1:17 PM

CAPT Hiram Patterson — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:17:41 -0400

Just second nature for many of us when we leave or retire.

Response by Cpl Richard Leonard made May 26 at 2016 1:42 PM

Cpl Richard Leonard — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:42:52 -0400

This may occur in government jobs but not in the private sectors. When I was in Law enforcement we went by branch of service or just military. in the business world they just care if you served. We just hired two retired vets one Air Force and one Army. Only way I know they were Sargent and master Sargent was when they posted their picture in uniform on our wall of honor. No one asked except me being a lowly Vietnam Corporal, Just kidding I out rank them being a director not that big of a deal out here enjoy and thank you for serving.

Response by SSG Jeremy Jennings made May 26 at 2016 1:50 PM

SSG Jeremy Jennings — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:50:05 -0400

Maybe some of this has to do with upbringing and our how our military indoctrination installed itself in our psyches. For me, I had tremendous respect for NCO's and officers out of basic, but the majority of my national guard NCO's and officers confronted me with the fact that character and professionalism don't always attend to rank. I never saw myself as just a private, and I wanted to be a better sergeant and soldier than the duds. I made great efforts to emulate the high-speed, whatever rank they were. To this day my initial attitude is to respect the rank of a retired or prior service member per customs and courtesies if it makes them feel better, but I am more comfortable being friendly with veterans that don't bring up rank. When I was a "middle management" NCO in the army I went fishing with my CO and had breakfast with the sergeant major. There was mutual respect and a spirit of camaraderie, but I didn't spend time with majors who were egotistical assholes or senior NCO's who shit on everyone. My rank never went to my head, but for some folks rank was EVERYTHING. I think it goes back to basic, and probably even childhood and ultimately to self-confidence and worth. If you joined the service to prop up your ego, you're gonna carry that crutch 'til the day you die, with your rank on the back window of your truck and on official correspondence. Whatever. I won't be having any beers with you.

Response by Capt Seavy Barefoot made May 26 at 2016 1:59 PM

Capt Seavy Barefoot — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:59:58 -0400

Rank is a recognition of your level of responsibility. Starting as an E-1 basic and ending after 10 years as a Captain, as a medic, then a C 130 Navigator, I understand the amount of work required to advance. It is much the same outside the military. My spouse, a physician is often referred to as Doc by her family and friends.

Response by LT Aaron Pease made May 26 at 2016 2:19 PM

LT Aaron Pease — Thu, 26 May 2016 14:19:00 -0400

Interesting variety of views expressed here. I'll pile on too. Like everything, there is a time and place for strict rank structures. SNCOICs, field-grade officers, and above, are responsible and accountable and should know better to allow a spouse to potentially embarrass them with a poor example [especially] to junior officers an enlisted SMs, let alone senior staff. Perhaps its worthwhile to recall that a salute is an expression of mutual respect between warriors that share a kindred ethos of sacrifice, honor, courage, and commitment. First, the junior to the senior and then the senior to the junior (unless the junior is wearing a CMH - which makes sense). Not that their contributions are to be reduced or minimized, but I've personally never viewed [CIVDIV] spouses as warriors and although they may be married to warriors, non-warrior spouses trading on such credentials is evidence of poor professionalism tradecraft, lack of situational awareness, and should be corrected without delay -- quite frankly -- especially by a Marine officer. Marines intimately understand that mutual respect between junior and senior is central to maintaining good order and discipline within the unit. However, as a civilian, and although the underlying lessons relating to resource allocation, training, and equipping to achieve mission objectives still remain relevant in any professional environment, they must be tempered to that environment, and any practical utility in addressing someone by rank is forgone, superfluous, and may actually serve to undermine leadership within some contemporary organizational cultures outside of the military. That said, us and those like us (Basilone, Puller, Boyington, Butler, Daly) made a legacy in our own ways and in our own times and deserve fundamental respect (not as sergeants, petty officers, or colonels), but as warriors and citizens.

Response by SSG David Dickson made May 28 at 2016 11:29 PM

SSG David Dickson — Sat, 28 May 2016 23:29:27 -0400

Bruce Springsteen said it best in his sobg ,"Gkory Days". It's hard for nany of us to accept our emeritus status.

Response by CAPT Eric Stilwell made May 29 at 2016 5:25 PM

CAPT Eric Stilwell — Sun, 29 May 2016 17:25:38 -0400

I don't recall the source of this quote but one of our forefathers used it at a fancy dinner at his home. A woman sat near the head of the table but was asked to move down to the other end of the table as someone else (senior or more important or not) was to sit in the seat she had taken. The woman was incensed that she was "put down" to the lowly part of the table. Well, the gentleman host replied, "Madam, if you matter, you won't mind. If you mind, you don't matter."
I have never forgotten that response throughout my 32 years of Navy service. I think those who hold their Service's rank and respect rules into retirement, beyond normal professional courtesy across ALL RANKS (O or E), are simply insecure as someone has already stated in this thread.

Response by SCPO Penny Douphinett made May 30 at 2016 7:46 PM

SCPO Penny Douphinett — Mon, 30 May 2016 19:46:37 -0400

I haven't read all the responses, so I hope I'm not repeating anyone. There is an old yarn about a command's first wives meeting (back in the day when there were only wives) and the first thing the CO told them was to sit by rank. The women got up and rearranged themselves according to their husband's paygrade/position. He then told him the truth and some took it very badly!

It sounds like the Major's wife was living vicariously through her husband and did not have much else in her life. Unfortunately, she's about 40-50 years to late for that kind of life.

Many female servicemembers have had a different experience with wives and that is hostility toward our working with their husbands. I learned that humor does not help with that situation, as in looking at them and saying "your husband? Really? You've got to be kidding me!" and walking away! Once, as the new Dept Chief, my LPO's wife was worried about him working so much time with me getting ready for an inspection; I heard him on the phone one night telling her she had nothing to worry about - 'his last supervisor was really pretty, but the Chief is really ugly'. He couldn't understand why the LT and I were laughing.

Response by CPT Karen Nichols McAbee made May 31 at 2016 11:30 AM

CPT Karen Nichols McAbee — Tue, 31 May 2016 11:30:27 -0400

so, let me get this straight... an officer's wife is getting all pissy about not socializing with another officer's wife? apparently I'm missing something...

Response by TSgt Ronald Iniguez made Jun 2 at 2016 7:17 PM

TSgt Ronald Iniguez — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:17:26 -0400

As Maj Lee stated, it is an issue of insecurity and not knowing or dealing with your own feelings. For me, I still call a person who carries a superior rank to me by that rank even though I have been retired 12 yrs. For me it is/was a respect issue, most of them have earned it as I hope I have. It also has to do with the way I was raised (Dad was career AF also). After a while though I have gotten comfortable enough to address whoever it is by their first name or nickname.

As an aside, the "lady" who pulled the rank card needs to get over herself! He earned that rank, not her!!

AIM HIGH! (yes I'm that old)

Response by SFC Gary Edwards made Jun 3 at 2016 10:22 AM

SFC Gary Edwards — Fri, 03 Jun 2016 10:22:30 -0400

You know sir, there are quite a few folks out there with such a low self esteem that they can't feel good about themselves unless they can find a reason to make themselves feel superior by using the cover of something else. I say pray hard for these people and be kind to them regardless because though you can't stop their feelings of unworthiness, perhaps you can show by example what kind of person they could aspire to be. I really admire folks who achieved great status and prosperity yet don't look down on those of us who didn't.

Response by MAJ Todd Lamb made Jun 3 at 2016 9:03 PM

MAJ Todd Lamb — Fri, 03 Jun 2016 21:03:49 -0400

Having gone from Private to Major I can only remember the feelings of working at the Officers club at Camp Lejeune as a barback when I had time off and wasn't in the field. The TRULY gracious spouses didn't need their asses kissed. The only ones who tried to pull rank were emotionally needy. Rank today is an indicator of functional ability, and not of social status. THAT antebellum south is long gone.

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Jun 6 at 2016 9:47 PM

GySgt Moses Lozano — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:47:06 -0400

What a turd! Officer rank entitlement for most officers retired or not is a hard concept to forget. This is not behavior that has to be accepted by any retiree or vet. You can tell them off or whatever you have to do. That is the only way they will understand that they can no longer hide behind their rank!

Response by PFC Matt Duncan made Jun 26 at 2016 6:05 PM

PFC Matt Duncan — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 18:05:25 -0400

I know I have already responded to this one, but a thought popped into my head, so out it comes.

I am a mobile DJ in the Branson, MO area, so I am around vets all the time. I also love to DJ for military reunions. I was loading up my gear after a small family reunion at the Grand Plaza hotel in Branson a few months ago about the time a military reunion was letting out from their social evening in the same building. Now, I normally do nothing to talk about or even acknowledge a person's rank in these situations, I just thank them for their service with an eye-to-eye contact and a handshake or a nod. But when you see the blue with white stars neck-tied medal with an upside-down five-point star and the word "VALOR" you stop what you're doing and react. This gent was easily in his nineties and was as spry as if he were 20 again. He was of Japanese heritage, he had a ram-rod straight back, blazing bright eyes and an almost-too-firm handshake. No ego, nothing untoward, he was 100% pure class. I asked him his story and he told it - and then he asked me for my story, as I had the 11th ACR Blackhorse on my nametag. I told him, but in a very humble way, as it wasn't near as heroic as his. That was when I was well and truly humbled because he corrected me. "Mr. Duncan, you would have done the very same thing I did had you been in my shoes. You signed the papers, you swore the oath and you served our nation. Don't ever belittle that or this old man will happily kick your ass."

When I see rank on an active duty soldier, marine, airman or sailor, I address them as such and thank them for their service. They deserve it, and God knows they don't get it enough. When I see a man or woman with a veteran hat or button, or they stand up in a theater when asked to for recognition, I show the respect they deserve. Rank matters not - service does.

Except with a Medal Recipient - that beats it all, y'all.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 10:21 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:21:49 -0400

Seems like a case of a self entitled little brat.

Response by 1LT Susan Bailey made Jun 30 at 2016 11:21 AM

1LT Susan Bailey — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:21:37 -0400

Good question, COL. I have been informed by several spouses that they have put up with a lot to help their soldiers, etc. get to that rank. While I don't condone the behavior of people not wearing rank acting like they do, I can see their point.
However, like the Major says it is really a reflection of their inner perspective that causes them to act this way.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 30 at 2016 11:37 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:37:40 -0400

The only thing about my rank that matters to me is how much it pays out in my pension! :)

I do prefer to be called John, and I often have to ask a lot of the people who worked for me another lifetime ago (in the Navy) to call me John. A lot of these people are still on active duty and still call me IT1, even though I've asked them not to, LOL...

Response by 1SG Margarita Brunke made Jun 30 at 2016 1:56 PM

1SG Margarita Brunke — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 13:56:07 -0400

well said Sir

Response by CPO Mark Lovelace, CSP made Jun 30 at 2016 2:07 PM

CPO Mark Lovelace, CSP — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 14:07:27 -0400

I don't live close to the military community anymore, so I don't see any effect whatsoever. However I do find that a few folks who were my superior officers when I was on active duty are now some of my best friends. A little loyalty goes a long way.

Response by PO2 Alvin Dimalanta made Jun 30 at 2016 5:07 PM

PO2 Alvin Dimalanta — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:07:04 -0400

When I flew space a few years ago, we were all waiting a few days in Rota to fly out, rank was never brought up among the retirees.

Response by Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM made Jun 30 at 2016 8:39 PM

Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:39:36 -0400

I am sorry Colonel Burroughs, I had thought I answered this before. To Begin, no one puts down "Bella". She is a beautiful woman and she has a supportive husband. What woman could ask for more? I find that sometimes women do not treat other women with any respect regardless of rank or social status. Lets face it, she is beautiful and some insecure women, may act in such a dishonorable way. It boils down to the simplest of elements, insecurity in ones self which lead to jealousy. Please let her know from me that this is not a reflection upon her, She is beautiful inside and out. That situation reveals more about those individuals that perpetrated the hate more than anything. I say let go of the toxicity, it changes you not them. Best my friend

Response by Alan K. made Jun 30 at 2016 9:37 PM

Alan K. — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:37:59 -0400

It is like someone buying a fancy car so that everyone thinks they are important and wealthy.....And making sure they tell everyone they have it in case they missed it.......!

Response by Anita Nowocin made Jul 1 at 2016 1:50 PM

Anita Nowocin — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 13:50:18 -0400

This is an interesting discussion! Being a civilian, I know that some Veterans like to be known for their rank and others prefer being addressed by their first name. Other government retires are addressed by the last office - Governor, Senator, etc.

I must admit that I get ranks mixed up and do not know the symbols beside the name, the branch of military and rank.

Be proud of your service, the rank you have achieved, and use the rank when appropriate.

Response by Tyra Lynne Wahl made Jul 1 at 2016 3:39 PM

Tyra Lynne Wahl — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:39:36 -0400

A wife pulling her husbands rank is one of the stupidest things I had ever heard of or witnessed as a Marine wife.... but it was most certainly real and I thought it was rather sad that a bunch of women who should be holding each other up were instead tearing each other down.... esp with a rank and accomplishment that wasn't their own.

15 years ago on Quantico I had a wife try to tell me that I couldn't go to the commissary in sandals.... not flip flops, but buckle up sandals. I politely told her to mind her own business and that I could take care of myself. That was just the kind of woman I was, I had never dressed inappropriately on base anyway so I had nothing to worry about.

Sadly, I watched a lot of young women essentially pull rank on each other and some would get a little snooty when their husband promoted. They threw big wet downs that they probably couldn't afford which was fine... we would show up for 30 minutes and then leave. We never threw wet downs because promotion was a natural career progression and a horrible waste of money. I finally withdrew from the organizational parts of the spouses network and never looked back. I only attended "mandatory fun" events that were required of my husband, no coffee's, no mixers and no baby showers.... my life was far more peaceful after I left that BS behind.

I made friends outside the military in the general community and it was much better experience for me personally. I had a great career which afforded me great opportunities to meet people outside the Marine Corps so I was good to go. I will say though, it worked for me because I was much older than most of the wives of the other men at my husbands Officer rank. He was a mustang, so both of us were in our middle 30's when most everyone else was in their 20's.

Response by Tyra Lynne Wahl made Jul 1 at 2016 3:51 PM

Tyra Lynne Wahl — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:51:45 -0400

Sad..... I am very sorry your wife got caught up in that mess.

Response by SSG Chad Carruth made Jul 1 at 2016 9:48 PM

SSG Chad Carruth — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 21:48:38 -0400

I could give many names to people like her or her husband whichever the case may be, but I won't lower myself like that. I think it is just their insecurities or jealousy.
I also will refer to RP members initially by their rank out of respect because they earned that and like you, once we get to know each other that drops and is no longer needed.
If we were in the service long enough to retire I would hope we have all been to the point where this wouldn't even be mentioned. Example ... just my personal military career was 15 years and medical retirement cut my service short of my personal goal of at least 20 years. I learned how to follow and how to lead and how to get along with people from all different backgrounds. Once retired we all share the same experience and all have something in common and should respect each other no matter what rank they were. At this point in our lives we are all equal in some way or another.
Anyway that's just my 2 cents.

Response by SGT Sara Hendrix made Jul 2 at 2016 12:18 AM

SGT Sara Hendrix — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 00:18:36 -0400

i'm incredibly confused as to the justification for the Major's wife to treat your wife poorly or to indicate she doesn't like your wife because of her husband's rank ? I have heard stories of but never witnessed myself someone as blatant as mentioning who their spouse was (I am not questioning the validity of it all just simply that it has not occurred around me directly ) I know that bad behavior does not discriminate within the spouse community ! ! It takes place at all levels.

I will also share that -- as a spouse, it is difficult to be taken seriously by current SM's (perhaps because of the bad behavior I have mentioned) and certainly as someone who served non combat and was unable to take the career path initially intended, I am not always taken seriously as to my knowledge base.

When I walked into the General's office to assist a friend, I am quite sure that the thought process was something like "what is SHE (spouse) doing here ? and do I REALLY have to entertain this ? " Fortunately I was given the opportunity to speak up and to give insight that was helpful and impacted the entire situation in a positive manner.

i've done a lot of trying to sort out why spouse behavior can come up like it does (negatively and condescending or whatever) I think that it is 1) personality and 2) SOMETIMES r/t their own spouses behavior maybe ? ? Guess it's my theory anyhow. At any rate-- these spouses who try to throw around their husbands' rank ---i will never ever understand it. I don't understand anyone not respecting another person though. . .regardless of their rank, their position, their job or whatever it may be.

Response by Cassie M. made Jul 2 at 2016 8:22 PM

Cassie M. — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 20:22:10 -0400

I believe you are coreect. Sounds like its more of an Ego issue than a rank issue. No longer being in the military is no reason to treat anyone differently. As it should be if still in service as well. But my opinion only

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Jul 2 at 2016 10:41 PM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 22:41:03 -0400

Spouses don't and have never had any right to their husband's rank. The woman is a snob and not worth the trouble of addressing her behavior, other than to remind her that she doesn't wear a uniform.

I see many retirees and past members and never have any issues, but I'm not in a concentrated area. It might be different when a bunch of us get together. I would expect some of that simply because there was more segregation of ranks in the past.

Response by SPC Rebecca M. made Jul 5 at 2016 3:43 PM

SPC Rebecca M. — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:43:34 -0400

From my own perspective (as if there can really be any other), I agree that it's ridiculous, particularly when there are no parties involved still on active duty. That said, there is a decidedly different experience at different ranks. The officer's spouse (let's just use a wife as an example, as that's what I deal with here) has a much different military experience than the enlisted wife does. I was active duty and outranked my husband. I received a medical discharge and overnight became a military spouse (enlisted) - the difference in how I was treated was striking and very disconcerting. In my current job, almost everyone in this building on the administrative staff is either prior service or a military spouse (almost all the military folks are retired or medically discharged). My secretary was a Marine in 1952 (she's 84 now) and enlisted. One of my staff members was an officer's wife and then after a divorce became a senior NCO's wife. We have some spouses of Colonels and Majors on staff. To listen to them talk is like listening to an entirely different version of military reality than the one I knew either as active duty enlisted or enlisted spouse of an active duty soldier. People tend to stereotype - and there is typically some validity at the core of it, but it's still not applicable to all cases - and that might be why the rank thing is so much of a problem even after a person is no longer actively serving. There may have been a common branch but the experience and commonalities may be minimal depending on rank. Unfortunately, I've seen my share of "uppity" and "entitled" officer's spouses (and I include military husbands here as well), but I've also seen really humble, down-to-earth ones too. I've seen the enlisted spouses trying to scratch up the money to go down to apply for WIC while the officer's wife sits in the break room laughing about the Birthday Ball and the nerve of some other wife who wore the same dress two years in a row.

I think it's rude, personally, to judge someone on their rank while they were in the service, or the rank of their spouse. By and large people have NO idea what the circumstances were of that person's time with the military, and the fact that they signed on the doted line just like everyone else did is something worth honor and respect, whether it's a PVT, NCO, WO, or officer. I respect all for their service. I also recognize the utility of rank structure in defining a person's viewpoint and experience within the military community. I do not think it's fair to make assumptions on that alone, but I can pretty safely assume (most of the time) that an officer's wife who married the man when he was already an officer is not as likely to have to face as many of the financial hardships that an average enlisted wife might face. I myself was on WIC after I got out in order to ensure I had nutrition when I was pregnant (my husband was an E-3 at the time) and then up until our daughter was about a year old just to ensure we had good food on the table. The times I stood behind an officer's wife in line at the PX and looked at the items they were purchasing, then trying not to wish I could just whip out the credit card to pay for it instead of having to sign all those WIC vouchers and hoping I had the right brands.... Well, same uniforms, worlds apart is all I can say.

Anyway, I just had a nice talk with my secretary about her time in service (her husband was a career military type) and much of what she said corresponds to what I already mentioned. I've never been able to be terribly concise when it comes to things I feel strongly about (like this topic) , so I appreciate the fact that you've taken your valuable time to read my entire comment here. I really CAN keep is short and simple when I have to. :)

Response by MSgt Fred Gottshalk made Jul 7 at 2016 2:32 PM

MSgt Fred Gottshalk — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 14:32:07 -0400

Most 'active'/retired/reserve personnel RESPECT each other AND their rank. However, many spouses where the other spouses rank more conspicuously. The offending spouse is not to be considered; because eventually their conduct will affect the active duty spouses career.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 12:48 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:48:14 -0400

If there is one thing that gets me heated, it's dependents that "wear their sponsors rank".
Of that is how you identify yourself (by your sponsors accomplishments), there's a problem.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:49:10 -0400

Poor self esteem. I have been out more than 30 years and know many former officers in my current profession. We treat each other with respect and mutual admiration.

Response by SGT Amy Tribou made Aug 23 at 2016 8:55 PM

SGT Amy Tribou — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:55:54 -0400

I use Sir or Ma'am still to the officers, and to some higher enlisted I actually respected. As far as the spouses, no, I never gave them the respect of their counterparts rank. I showed my manners from my upbringing, but rank is earned not married. I still have my manners, along with my own self respect as well.

Response by SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee made Aug 24 at 2016 12:22 AM

SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 00:22:31 -0400

I have seen this more among the commissioned than the enlisted for the most part. When I have run across it, it appears that the person is still expecting to be treated the same, even if they aren't around other veterans. They feel they are entitled, and can't seem to get over it. On the other hand, I have also known officers and senior NCOs that retire or separate on Monday and are already out among their former subordinates the next day as just another friend in the crowd.

My personal experience taught me to show respect as appropriate when I was still enlisted, and after I got out I have maintained that respect. But if you expect to get along with other veterans, you come together with others with a mutual respect for the time they spent in service, regardless of rank, and you continue on as Veterans. Not Commissioned or enlisted. One group united under prior experiences.
I may still refer to certain people by their rank, but a lot of times it is more of a nickname earned from time spent together.

As for spouses, there have always been those that automatically expect the same respect their NCO/Officer expects from their personnel. The ones that learn that all spouses are the same (especially when their vet is deployed) and that they should all look out for each other. The ones that realize this usually become leaders among the family community, the ones that don't usually don't spend time with other veteran families very often.

In the end, it comes down to two things - you are either going to joint the VETERAN ranks and enjoy time with your fellow veterans, or you are going to always want your entitlement and find yourself shunned and unwelcome among many of the people you spent so much of your life around.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 24 at 2016 3:03 AM

CPT Tom Monahan — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 03:03:41 -0400

Rank amoung Veterans and Retired types is only a tip of the hat. We are all civilians (some subject to recall). I much prefer being called by my real jobs: husband, dad, son, brother and friend. For the retired types, we get to keep the rank "title", but what we need to do is salute that recruit and cadet who are stepping up to carry on where we all left off.

Response by SGT Christopher Clarke made Aug 24 at 2016 6:24 AM

SGT Christopher Clarke — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 06:24:53 -0400

Total insecurity on that persons part. After being out over 25 years, there are a few that still call me Sarge. Other than that, it's Chris. One of my co-workers is a Lt. Col in Reserves and we never think of him being an Officer and me an NCO.

Response by SFC Anthony Franke made Aug 24 at 2016 9:10 AM

SFC Anthony Franke — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:10:21 -0400

For some reason, I have seen retired Sergeants Major doing this frequently. I have seen it from Colonels, but not from officers typically. I don't have a good reason as to the why. I do find it annoying, though.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 24 at 2016 10:19 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:19:55 -0400

I'm going to start telling my friends to tell their friends that they are connected to a Senior Airman. What power!

Response by SGM Barry Kindred made Aug 24 at 2016 10:23 AM

SGM Barry Kindred — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:23:46 -0400

I don't and won't.
I'm no longer in that position of authority.
I am an advocate for all service and family members without frat biases.
We were soldiers

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 11:55 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 11:55:09 -0400

I try to address all by Rank for a couple of reasons 1. To remind them they have support and Brothers and Sisters. Just because you are no longer active doesn’t mean you should be forgotten. Or feel left out of the community 2. It’s my way of saying Sir or Ma’am, without offending. 3. Because its easy lol.

In regards to OP I remember an incident with a depend-a-potamus at a base overseas. (All of this came from my Admin people and people involved in it, I’m just putting it in a simplified form.)

The Dependa came through the gate and started berating the Enlisted for not saluting her. Her husband was an O2 “LTJG and he (enlisted) needed to show her respect” the gate guard told her move along. So she went to the admin office and made a huge scene. When that didn’t go her way she started bad mouthing the enlisted member’s wife around base and with the FRG. The CO got wind of it and decided he was going to end it.

He (CO) had the LTJG call his wife and tell her to come to the base for a meeting with him. The LTJG knew this was going to be bad. The Wife showed up and by happenstance encountered the same Enlisted Gate Guard from before and told him he was going to get it now she was meeting with the CO. (Childish much) He again told her move along no salute. Well when she got to Admin and was escorted into the CO’s office she flopper herself down in a chair like she owned the place. Before she could start the Co asked her…

CO: When did you attend boot camp?
Dep: I’ve never been to boot camp!
CO: When did you attend OCS?
Dep: I’ve never been in that!
CO: When did you receive your commission?
Dep: I’m not commissioned!
CO: Then what makes you think you have the right to demand a salute from ANYONE! Since you can’t be respectful to the enlisted or their wives your base privileges are revoked for 3 months. Now get off my Base.

I don’t know about the legality of what he did we were overseas, but it is one of the most epic slap downs I have seen so far.

Any person that treats another poorly because of their spouses rank is a depend-a-potamus. They are in my opinion scum of the earth. The military members rank changes, Civilian is always civilian, and crass is always crass.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 12:22 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 12:22:01 -0400

I am a SSgt. When my wife and I married she became a PFC. While the USMC rank of PFC is E2, my wife's rank of PFC (Private Freakin Civilian) outranks me, my platoon commander, my company commander, and hell - the CMC himself.

If I wanted to play the rank card I would play a slightly different one:
WW-II: My mom (USMC E4), Dad (Army O4), Uncle (Seabee E4)
WW-I: Grandfather (Army E2), Uncle (bi-wing pilot, rank unknown)
Revolutionary War: Great, great, great.... Ethan Allen Boys, Militia from Maine to Virginia
Plymouth Rock: Gov. James Bradford (plus about 50% of the Mayflower crew and passengers)

None of it pays my bills. None of it garners me more/less respect with those I choose to spend my time with. Some of my friends are current or prior military. Seals, Rangers, Marines, regular Army, Air Force, National Guards, etc. Everything from E1 to O5.

When dealing with someone who is overly sensitive to their former rank I know that the relationship will stay formal, a working relationship, and never have the opportunity to develop into a deeper relationship. Sad, but I can't change the other person.

Response by CPO Larry Cox made Aug 24 at 2016 12:23 PM

CPO Larry Cox — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 12:23:44 -0400

This is a good question! If you are both retired, or out of the service, then there should be no expectations. I do call my old Senior Chief "senior", but that's because I served with him for 10 years and that's what I always called him, not by Billy, his given name.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Aug 24 at 2016 1:41 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:41:45 -0400

Colonel, it's because some people will always be "legends in their own mind".

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 2:46 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:46:21 -0400

Bro spouses aren't in the service they are fucking civilian she should let anyone belittle her smh some people have lost their minds

Response by MAJ Karen Wall made Aug 24 at 2016 9:56 PM

MAJ Karen Wall — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:56:00 -0400

I agree with you, Mike! While I have not had that experience, I will share one I had as the military spouse of a military man. My husband at the time and I were both officers in the Army and we lived on post where he worked. I was in nursing school and the reserves at the time and he was active duty. People on post always saw me in my civvies go and coming from school, so it was not common knowledge that I also wore the uniform. My neighbor was having one of those parties where the neighborhood ladies come over and look at products, so she invited me. I was just getting off from my weekend drill, so I had to go to her house in uniform. The most phenomenal thing happened when I got there......the wives who were there, and who all knew me as the wife of a soldier, suddenly saw me in my own uniform and from that moment on, not a one of them spoke to me for the rest of the afternoon. They did not even sit by me. Needless to say, I told my friend I was leaving and fortunately she understood. Your story just reminded me of the childishness of people who are too absorbed in status and rank. I respect your wife for not lowering herself.

Response by SPC Kari Grove Wright made Aug 25 at 2016 2:44 PM

SPC Kari Grove Wright — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:44:11 -0400

What's funny is in the civilian world no one cares what your rank WAS.
She's petty and needs a life.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 26 at 2016 5:48 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 17:48:33 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Mikel, I feel as though I can call you by your first name; as I have called you by your first name before.
With those higher ranking than I-whom I don't know (or whom I don't know well) (in a formal setting)-I will call them by their rank and last name.
I highly respect you, Mikel. Just because I refer to you by your first name; does not mean that I respect you or honor you any less than I already do.
-Most Sincerely, Margaret C Higgins US Army (Ret)

Response by SSgt Alan Cook made Aug 28 at 2016 1:05 AM

SSgt Alan Cook — Sun, 28 Aug 2016 01:05:07 -0400

yes, you know you do and always will, we called you zeros as in 0 123456789, you called us empty e 123456789, you zeres had a attitude and so did the enlisted, just the way it is even on the outside in civilian life, as some believe they are better than others

Response by SGT Rik Thibodeau made Sep 1 at 2016 1:18 PM

SGT Rik Thibodeau — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 13:18:34 -0400

I've had to deal with it quite a bit since I got out because I separated overseas and immediately got a contractor position and eventually a GS12 position but there were a few who could not stop treating me as if I were still "SGT Thibodeau". Luckily I didn't have to listen to them anymore.
Another problem I had was that I would go to the health clinic on base and for some reason they kept showing me as SGT Thibodeau in the system, so at times I'd go to appointments and the green suiters treated me with little respect. One time in particular my appointment was with an O6 (COL) doctor and he was borderline abusive, wouldn't let me talk, kept treating me as if I was a private. I eventually had enough and told him "Look, I am not in the Army anymore, I'm a civilian and I have private insurance that I PAY for, so you can treat me with a little more respect than that." He actually apologized.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Sep 1 at 2016 2:48 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 14:48:38 -0400

We've sort of touched on this before Colonel. With me acknowledging your former rank is my respect for your accomplishment in making it. I don't consider it stereotyping. You've always been respectful to me and that's what accords you that recognition. It's the same way I address anyone on this site. Until I'm spoken to in a disrespectful manner I like it that way. You've told me you wouldn't mind my addressing you by your first name and I appreciate that. As far as wives go I never had to deal with that but I'd certainly let her and anyone else know that she would be equal to any other woman no matter what their or their husband's status was.

Response by MSgt Handel Stewart made Sep 14 at 2016 3:31 AM

MSgt Handel Stewart — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 03:31:05 -0400

I believe the wives feel like they should get some of the same privileges their husbands have earned. Yes they're married to those gentlemen, but that doesn't give them any right to believe they deserve any special treatment. If they were to shop off post/base, they would be treated the same as every person in line.

As for our veterans/retired personnel, I believe the rank & name thing extends mostly from personnel who used to work for one another or with each other. I consider it showing respect to that individual.

Response by MAJ Karen Wall made Sep 15 at 2016 1:06 PM

MAJ Karen Wall — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 13:06:20 -0400

You know, this is a wonderful question to ask and discuss. I see it as having many facets depending on a person's situation and mindset. I am a retired MAJ, Army Nurse Corps. My experiences have been on both sides of the rank fence. I was married to another Army officer and the wives on post all knew me. Not a problem. The problem appeared when I was invited to my neighbor's hose for one of those show-and-tell parties. I was coming straight from duty in my uniform. No problem with my neighbor. I walked into her house and she introduced me to everyone there. Now, remember, the ladies there all knew me, and some of them also knew I was in the Reserves at the time. After the cursory, obligatory greetings were done, not one of them spoke to me or sat by me the entire time. I told my friend I had to be somewhere and I left. They did the same thing at a dining in when I wore my mess dress and was seen talking with some of their husbands about military stuff. Not only did they pull the rank card, they pulled the jealousy card!

How many of you are familiar with the old practice of including your spouse's contributions to your career on your OER or NCOER? That is where some of this stuff came from. Unfortunately, there is still a practice in some places of the officers' kids not playing with the enlisted's kids! Those of us who wear the rank see it as just who we are and what we do in the grand scheme of the mission. It is the spouses and family members who take it to that dark place, which then reflects on us the "sponsor".

Now, on the other side of my experiences, I read a comment about my rank and military work having nothing to do with my civilian life. On this one I will disagree- for me personally- because what I did and what my rank was actually has LOTS if not everything, to do with my civilian life. I work with the VA as a psychiatric nurse (RN), which is what I did in the Army. I also work with dementia and the elderly veterans. Being a RN in the military and in the civilian world is the same, just different clothing. My rank, which obviously is an officer for anyone in the medical field who is a provider, also has played a huge role in my work with veterans living with mental illness and dementia, as well as my interactions with other veterans with whom I work. We fall into our old military customs and courtesy and things tend to go better when I am trying to get something done with or for a patient, especially one who is having a behavioral crisis (at any age). There have been MANY times when I have walked into a situation on my acute unit and the patients saw my rank on my lanyard and stopped dead in their tracks and (amusingly) sometimes actually came to attention against the wall. My rank being visible and used in a therapeutic way has been the difference between chaos and calm in my work. I also do therapy, specializing in veterans, and when I meet with a veteran in my practice, my rank has helped them understand not only that I know what they are talking about, but that I have been in positions of command and will see to their needs.

In my civilian life away from the VA and therapy, my rank does not come into play unless someone brings it up and asks me about it. I use it in some of my signature blocks depending on the context. In my civilian activities, it is known that not only was I military, but I had some rank on my shoulder that was not too shabby :-). I don't pull rank on anyone, and don't expect anyone to pull my rank on me or for me. I"m just me. Actually, now I am mostly known as Dr. since graduating last year. MAJ is pretty much reserved for work (situation driven) and military related activities.

So there you have it!
Roger that!

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Sep 15 at 2016 8:00 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:00:31 -0400

Since my military life came to an end I have found myself addressing certain rank by title,but that is limited to only higher ranks. I would follow that in the ranks of E-8 (1st Sgt) E-9 (SGM or equiv) and officers O-5 or 6 and above and CWO 4 or 5 as Chief or Mister. That's about it for me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 8:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:58:39 -0400

Some spouses feel a sense of entitlement due to rank their husband/wife wear.

I'm thankful my wife is prior service and doesn't feed into the wheel of stupid.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2016 1:27 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 13:27:13 -0400

People move up through the ranks and I always try to keep that in mind when posting response and that is my take. COL Mikel J. Burroughs

Response by TSgt Jim Gregg made Sep 25 at 2016 5:15 PM

TSgt Jim Gregg — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 17:15:43 -0400

I remember my first time going to get an ID for my wife who I had married after I retired. Even though I signed in as retired, they still called me by my former rank. Made me uncomfortable, having an active duty E-3 address me as Sgt.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 27 at 2016 2:37 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 02:37:25 -0400

Anyone that is so concerned what rank their spouse is doesn't sound like anyone I would even want to know. Can't say I've met very many people like that though I'm glad to say, mostly I have found a common bond with anyone that has served in the US Armed Forces. as SSgt Ayscue pointed out on His post here. The Military member holds the rank anyway , not the spouse.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 4:27 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 16:27:30 -0400

My own opinion on why some spouses do this is because they're petty and have nothing better to do. I'm an officer and my wife hates other spouses that are like this. They just come off as snobs, and who wants to be friends with them anyways?

Response by COL Scott Pacello made Jan 16 at 2017 9:16 AM

COL Scott Pacello — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:16:13 -0500

That's all bullshit. Get on with your life and be a good person. It's a pretty simple approach in my book that many struggle with, even those that have not served in the military.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 9:18 AM

CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:18:54 -0500

Any spouse that plays the rank card isn't worth being around. They usually end up alone and disliked.

Response by SFC Dave Beran made Jan 16 at 2017 9:21 AM

SFC Dave Beran — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:21:24 -0500

Not me. I don't care who or what you did. I treat all veterans the same. And I still show respect for officers. In or out. We never quit being servicemen and servicewomen.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 16 at 2017 9:29 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:29:49 -0500

If I know another fellow service person is a master gunny I'll call them "Top" or a Sr. Chief petty ofcr or Chief or Master chief p.o. I'll. Call them that in the company of other Veterans.. I say it in front of some civilians.. (especially those I know that it will get them p.o.'d 'cause I know they'll get Whiney and pull their p.c. C***, the Chief and I will laugh about them after they leave, because we can..). We show each other reverence
Gor the rank that was earned.. some guys don't do it.. I'll respect that if they don't..

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 9:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:49:08 -0500

Sometimes I think that as MPs, it's our fault to some degree that SOME spouses wear the rank. For years and years the rule was to salute the sticker, not the person. We were forced to salute even when the officer wasn't present. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that some spouses translated that to "I'm a Captain, Colonel, General".

Response by PO1 John Watson made Jan 16 at 2017 9:49 AM

PO1 John Watson — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:49:59 -0500

I retired as !st Class Petty Officer while most of my friends made Chief. Never has been a problem being retired but it was on active duty when a friends wife told me I could no longer associate with her husband because he was a Chief now. I wear my retired Navy hat most everywhere I go and have been greeted by former Captains on down.

Response by Sgt Greg Wilcox made Jan 16 at 2017 10:08 AM

Sgt Greg Wilcox — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:08:06 -0500

I can see the wife being proud of her accomplishments, and every retirement ceremony I have attended the retiree always mentions the spouse as someone they could not have done any of it without her support and understanding. However for a spouse that has done nothing more than marry the retiree and support throughout HIS/HER career, they do not and should not receive any special comsideration. I read in the one of the comments below where a CG's wife put the COL's spouse in line, literally making her go to the rear of the commissary checkout line, that's a spouse who understands how things should be.

As a low ranking enlisted person, i seem to call everyone Sir or Ma'am out of respect, even as a civilian working for the Army. It is a respect thing.

I am not sure if I gave any opinions, or just rambled, but it felt good either way.

Greg

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 16 at 2017 10:14 AM

Sgt Adam Jennings — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:14:39 -0500

That was one thing my wife HATED when I was active duty was the rank game.played by spouses. She still doesn't tolerate it since I'm out.

But she would be the last person to ever judge another lady on her husband's rank.

Response by PFC James Craft made Jan 16 at 2017 10:17 AM

PFC James Craft — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:17:29 -0500

I've not had that problem, after I got back stateside my Platoon Commander was a Mustang First Lieutenant who had been promoted in the field to the rank of Lieutenant Col. but was giving the option of going back to the enlisted rank or keep his Commission but at the rank of First Lieutenant. He was the one who understood the "rejects" that came back from Vietnam.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 16 at 2017 10:19 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:19:15 -0500

Fantastic for her not pulling it. Some are so full of feathers.. (a lot of fluff). They can't see what they're like..

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made Jan 16 at 2017 10:47 AM

SGT Anna Kleinschmidt — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:47:03 -0500

She is just an insecure capital B. as the wife of the BN 1st Sgt I saw it. My self and the BN commanders wife would make fun of the post commanders wife because she was that way with all of us. She was very lonely. I always was nice to everyone's wife. We would have a get together of all the leaders wife's in the company both enlisted and commissioned and make sure we had things together to take care of and support the enlisted spouses. Separate from the official family group this was a more personal outreach. This was calling them and getting to know them and making sure their personal welfare was covered. It was a great morale booster in the company. And made a huge diffrence during deployments.

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Jan 16 at 2017 10:48 AM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:48:16 -0500

In an accompanied tour overseas assignment, my wife would ride to the base with me since only one vehicle. While I was at work, she would kill time shopping or going to the bowling alley. She was a nice courteous southern girl with razor wit. At the bowling alley she was invited to join a group of women who were bowling and apparently short handed on teams. My wife was excited to have other women to associate with. She bowled with them about four times over a two week period. One day, they were introducing themselves to another lady who joined and they went around the group with names and what their husbands did in the USAF. When my wife stated that her husband was enlisted and working in aviation electronics, the room got very quiet according to her. Finally one of the women thought that it would be less embarrassing if the wives could wear a symbol of their husband's rank so that everyone knew what "level" they were at. My wife asked one simple question.. "If your husband is a butcher, are you going to pin on a pork chop so that everyone knows what he does?" She was never invited back but I was one proud airman.....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 10:53 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:53:12 -0500

In retirement, I have so far received no different treatment, although I've only been retired a year. I just tell people I'm a retired military guy and I don't mention rank unless someone asks. I only want to be known as Tony, not Sir or Major.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 16 at 2017 11:16 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:16:58 -0500

Many folks seem insecure, and rank seems to give them a handle. Wives are often the worst, trying to use their husband's rank/position to benefit themselves. I never use my rank, but then I'm a complete asshole and folks know it and assume it's because of my rank- not so, cause I'm an equal opportunity asshole!. I try very hard to work in groups where rank is insignificant and knowledge is important. As GEN Lindsay once told me," We all put our pants on 1 leg at a time!" I respond to many of my old troop, and this often use the rank I had at the time we where together- it's no skin of my nose to be called SSG, PSG, 1SG, etc. I take it as a sign of their respect. If you have to have your ego boosted by always being addressed by your former rank, then you have a shallow, over inflated ego. My $.02 cents worth there Sir.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Jan 16 at 2017 11:28 AM

CSM Andrew Perrault — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:28:48 -0500

Some just can't understand. If I never served with someone or out ranked them I usually call them by their name. If I served with you and you out ranked me (Officers) out of respect it's sir or ma'am. Since I retired it's been Andy for me........Don't have to prove squat to anyone.......

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Jan 16 at 2017 12:28 PM

TSgt Denise Moody — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:28:18 -0500

When I was just staring out in the dental clinic our superintendent told a little story about dependent wives and their rank. Or shall we say the rank they thought they had. We had to deal with dependents and yes sometimes wives of officers thought they should get better treatment. We had to assure them they didn't. Apparently the idea that dependents wear their military member's rank hasn't gone away...even in retirement.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 12:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:49:58 -0500

That is some crazy talk. All ranks should be treated equally when out of the service.

Response by LTC Wayne Brandon made Jan 16 at 2017 1:36 PM

LTC Wayne Brandon — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:36:20 -0500

Mikel -
I concur with your conclusion and offer the following -
There are frankly three issues expressed in this inquiry:
1. The attitude of the spouses of service members regarding the rank their husbands carry vs those of greater or lesser rank;
2. The implied privilege to the spouse that various ranks carry; and
3. The use of such titles once one leaves the service.

1 & 2. Addressing the first and second issues together, it really goes without saying that a service members wife will naturally be proud of her husband - especially as he progresses into the senior enlisted and field grade officer ranks. They recognize the respect others have for that rank and for some reason tend to assimilate that respect and privilege to themselves as if they were the one holding the rank and position.
It has been that way, I suppose since the first army and navy were formed and to my knowledge, nothing has ever been done to educate the spouse to the fact that they are not the service member and have no right to expect the privileges afforded that rank - only the common dignity and respect of all other civilian dependents regardless of the status of their spouse. It seems to me that the higher one goes, the more prevalent this issue becomes. I have seen it so sour some of the other wives that they have quit supporting the unit (such as FRG and related programs) and in the worse cases, pressured their spouse out of the military altogether. It might serve the military well to have an orientation class for 'Mrs. Lieutenant' or 'Mrs. Senior NCO', taught by some of the women whose husbands are most senior in the unit, designed to stop this sort of errant thinking before it gets traction. Just a thought.

3. The use of rank titles after the conclusion of military service is not a requirement by any means and only a narcissist would insist upon it. While I appreciate the respect my former soldiers show when they refer to me as 'Colonel' or 'Sir', I do not require it and invite them to call me by my first name. Under no circumstances is the spouse to be given anything more than common courtesy and respect due any person - she has earned nothing more irrespective of her husbands rank, nor should she expect it.

Response by MSgt Richard Randall made Jan 16 at 2017 1:37 PM

MSgt Richard Randall — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:37:30 -0500

My wife was invited to the spouse orientation day at Minot AFB, ND. The room was full of very young and newly married women (and a few men) and some that had obviously been around the track a few times. After everyone was seated the base commander came in, introduced himself, and asked everyone to organize themselves by rank. He left the room for perhaps 15 minutes.

When he returned, he admonished every one of the spouses in attendance by saying, “Aren’t you ashamed of yourselves? None of you have any military rank. You are all civilian dependents of active duty military personnel.” He went on to explain there are no special privileges for spouses of O-6s any more than there are for the wives/husbands of E-2s.

He had a few more words of wisdom to impart to those who might ride the coattails of their spouses in order to exploit their rank. I guess there were a few pouty lips but the point was well made.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Jan 16 at 2017 2:17 PM

MSgt George Cater — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:17:33 -0500

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made Jan 16 at 2017 2:19 PM

SGT Tim Fridley — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:19:45 -0500

Seems like a petty reason to not like someone. Perhaps this wife believes you disrespected her husband somehow. I have met some spouses that felt that way that somehow you're rank held their spouse back. This is especially true in the Guard where promotions are based on open spots.

Response by SFC Donald Lemay made Jan 16 at 2017 3:49 PM

SFC Donald Lemay — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:49:33 -0500

Hal Moore's wife took on the responsibility of notifying the wives of her husband's men who died. She didn't play the rank card. I'm a civilian now and my rank is of no consequence to me.

Response by MSgt David Sperber made Jan 16 at 2017 4:57 PM

MSgt David Sperber — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:57:48 -0500

Insecure...

Response by Cpl Rebecca Nicholson made Jan 16 at 2017 5:12 PM

Cpl Rebecca Nicholson — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:12:58 -0500

Active duty service members I can see, not their spouses...but spouses of retired service members need to flat out get a life. They do not rate, especially with that type of behavior! Leadership by example.....

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 5:24 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:24:41 -0500

GET OVER IT! Rank had its privileges while on active duty, but we all have ONE RANK now....CIVILIAN.

Response by GySgt David Weihausen made Jan 16 at 2017 6:33 PM

GySgt David Weihausen — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:33:16 -0500

Regardless of whether she "liked" your wife or not, the fact that her husband is a major of Marines gives her no "clout" or justification whatsoever! Good manners transcends rank as well and goes both up and down the "chain" regardless of whose husband outranks whom. This Major's wife needs a good does of attitude adjustment, period. The husband's rank does not transfer to you, regardless of branch. While I do understand that there are certain social situations where a spouse's rank might matter, as in a CG's wives circle meeting, but in those situations, the major's wife should have taken greater pains to ensure she used good manners and made pleasant company. There just is no excuse.

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Jan 16 at 2017 8:28 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:28:33 -0500

The "dependant" (notice the quotation marks) did not earn the rank, it is not her rank by proxy. I understand spouses go through their own types of circumstances, my husband was civilian and I was active duty, but that gave her no right to put on airs. Maybe your wife intimidated her, or she is insecure, either way, her problem not yours or your wife's.
The rank, out of respect is fine, but, I wouldn't use first names unless someone used mine first. (It's how I was brought up).
Semper Fi

Response by PO2 Jerri Jackson made Jan 16 at 2017 8:55 PM

PO2 Jerri Jackson — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:55:40 -0500

I've seen this happen in my tears in the military and since I've retired.
My thought on the spouse's using their husbands rank is because back in the day it did matter. But that was way back in like before the 60s. You see it in old movies. Especially with officers. Their wives were expected to socialize with other officers wives, n rank of hubby mattered. It stuck around longer in the East Coast then West, because people are more into tradition there, I think.
I remember at my first Command, NAVSTA Norfolk. The higher ranking officers lived in them big southern mansion looking houses, ante bellum looking. I was in 1st LTs division, and to make their lawns, lol.
There were always social events at the Golf Course for the officers. This late 70s n spouses of certain tanks still got head of line privileges. And in Norfolk back then there were lots of Admirals n Captains, n watching them squabble for their line privileges could get pretty funny, especially if both of their husbands were the same rank!
Now I feel it's a power trip from some, especially the insecure or the bullying type. Now I just looked at them n tell them I don't care who their spouse is, they are nothing but spoudes n hv no rank, n that I being a retiree out rank them! Lol, u should see their faces!!!!!

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Jan 16 at 2017 9:46 PM

MSG Jay Jackson — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:46:04 -0500

Sir , I am sure your wife is a very classy lady and considerate of others. But I would like to recommend that if she encounters another wife who prefers to use her husbands rank, I would ask that wife, " I did not know that rank was earned vaganally".

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 16 at 2017 10:14 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:14:58 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Where I live in CA, the only "rank" I see displayed is on the vehicles of Marines escaping from 29 Palms, Camp
Pendleton or Miramar.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 11:27 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:27:03 -0500

Sir,
I definitely agree with you on this. I have been retired 23 years from the Marine Corps after serving 21 years 3 months and 7 days. But who's counting right? I have had the previlege and honor to serve with Marines, Navy, Army, Air Force, and Coast Guard. I respect anyone and any rank, whether they're active duty, reserves, or retired. To me just being in the military is an honor and previlege. I have come across this before but awhile back. I think sometimes our spouses think that they have the right to their spouses rank, but is not true. I remember when I was an enlisted Marine, officers vehicles would be saluted because of their blue sticker and who ever was driving their vehicle. To me personally it's the rank not the individual who deserves the respect but this is just my feeling. When we retire from the military we hold dear to our freedom and most of all our responsibilities. I remember awhile back that I had incidentally abused my responsibilities on RallyPoint and was informed by this veteran. I thought about what he was saying to me and I responded in kind to his request. It goes both ways, up the ladder and down. But when it comes to belittling each other and their respective spouse it is definitely uncalled for and I will not take this sitting down. Just ask my SgtMaj. (my wife). She'll let you know in a heartbeat. Just this Marines opinion and no one else.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 17 at 2017 10:07 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:07:51 -0500

My wife told me when we got married...the rank is yours not mine...you earned it and I am along to support you. She never used it as a crutch or to get ahead of anyone else. She was the epitome of what a true military spouse should be.
However, I experienced the rank card one time and I handled it poorly. I was on the golf course at Hickam and it was backed up on every hole all the way through. We were waiting on every tee box and fairway for the next shot. The course marshal came by and told us to speed it up. I got uppity with him and asked him where did he want us to go. He state we needed to step aside and let the group two behind us play through. When I asked why they were so special he told me it was General so and so's wife and general so and so's wife and two colonels wives and they were trying to get their round in because they had a spouses ceremony to get to after the round of golf. I told him to go back and tell them that when The general is playing maybe (but he would have never asked) but for her, she could wait like the rest of us. He told her and then I was called to the Generals office the next day and he told me I was right and that he talked to his wife about using his rank, but asked that next time I probably don't have to be so direct. Then invited me to play golf with him sometime.
Now that I am retired, it is Mike or Joe or Linda...not Col, Maj, or MSgt.

I am a civilian now and rank has no meaning to me...Scott is my name and my current rank is always one less than my wife!!!

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jan 17 at 2017 12:27 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:27:29 -0500

I put it like this. I will usually refer to a retiree by their rank until they tell me not to. It's a sign of respect for someone who offered up 20 years or more of their lives to the country. As for veterans who don't retire, we don't have ranks anymore. I still call my old PSGs by their rank when I talk to them, but that's because I have never addressed them differently. As for spouses doing that shit, well that's something that has always happened. A spouse thinks that because their husband or wife is important they are too. There is no way to combat this because spouses tend to fall in line out of fear or retaliation for their service member husband or wife.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 12:55 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:55:30 -0500

The Officers wife thing was a minefield for spouses, and especially for CWO's, because many considered us as "less than" or "O Lite". I was fortunate that all my CO's wives were very nice people and treated my wife and myself well. The problem was usually with the junior O wives. They often gossiped, excluded and tried to manage their hubbies careers by working the CO's wife. Respecting the rank is basic to military discipline, but some of the spouses try to wear their husband's rank, and that ls distasteful. After separation or retirement it's still proper to afford respect and it's become second nature with me. If the senior is less formal with it then I respect their wishes, but never assume someone wants to be Bill, Bob, or Joe. Anyone that plays rank card after serving is just insecure IMHO. I'm sorry that your bride was exposed to it because it's not called for.

Response by SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA made Jan 17 at 2017 2:11 PM

SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:11:31 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Retirees DO retain their ranks upon retirement. DFAS identifies them by rank. I've never seen an RAS that doesn't identify my husband as SFC Charles L Drushal USA RET. Being the spouse of a retiree, I hold a DoD dependent's ID card. Anyone entering a military installation must show their ID card. Charles shows his blue one and I show my brown one. He always hears, "Thank you for your service, Sergeant." Because my brown ID card is based on his service, I am addressed as "Ma'am."

Although a VA ID card doesn't show the veteran's rank, the DD214 that got that card does. Every time I go to a VA clinic or hospital, I am identified by my rank first. Correspondence from VA identifies all veterans by rank too. Companies that deal exclusively with veterans also train their customer service reps to address veterans and retirees by their ranks. USAA is a really good example.

The issue that your wife had doesn't sound like the Marine wife was using the "rank card." It sounds like the rivalry that exists between service branches, especially with Marine dependents. There is an attitude that Marines are exclusive and elite because they are the first into battle. I have two cousins who were enlisted Marines. They witnessed this attitude firsthand. It is meant to foster camaraderie among the troops. Dependents latch onto it and make it something bigger than it is.

Response by MSgt Wesley Christiansen made Jan 17 at 2017 4:50 PM

MSgt Wesley Christiansen — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:50:25 -0500

I have a quote that I think of often. "No matter how high or great the thrown what sits on it is the same as your own." Rank is to create order nor arrogance..

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 11:52 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:52:53 -0500

I think some service members and their spouses use their rank and position for power and control. They are just too entilted for no reason at all.

My wise grandfather once told me,"People should remember you for your name, and not rank. The rank doesn't make the man, the man makes the rank." This is why we have good leaders and toxic leaders...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2017 12:57 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 00:57:13 -0500

my wife is Canadian and does not drink but you can tell that these military wives on their social networking are drinkers and a very big gossipers and she can care less about right. I didn't become a military man until I was 31 so it's only rank is not important on the social media

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 18 at 2017 1:21 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 01:21:34 -0500

My feeling is respect for all the people that wore or are wearing any Uniform of any branch of the US Armed Forces. I've used the words Sir or Mam in addressing both people of higher rank than myself as well as a more junior rank. Not because i have to use those words all the time but as a show of respect. the same applies to address by rank, once again respect. You don't loose anything by being decent to other people.

Response by CPL Beth Allsop made Jan 18 at 2017 3:21 AM

CPL Beth Allsop — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 03:21:50 -0500

It's got to be a sign a some deep and repressed infioroity complex to still have to play the rank card as a retired wife! That's ridiculous.
A real friend wouldn't even think of such a thing!

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Jan 19 at 2017 10:19 AM

MSgt John McGowan — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:19:13 -0500

COL. A lot goes back to habits and common courtesy. I haven't, my opinion seen any heavy use of rano here. I have seen some but most of the time someone is a horse's butt. Unfortunately I had my times while active duty that I ran into that also. It is also times you can't keep your cool if you are a Branch Chief or 1st Sgt. But Sir I will respect your rank and you as a person. I have followed you and read your profile.

Response by Cpl Cary Cartter made Jan 24 at 2017 9:11 AM

Cpl Cary Cartter — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 09:11:39 -0500

Insecurity, mostly. I have never understood why the spouse's rank matters; "Spouse of Veteran" is pretty much higher rank than any of us, yes?

As far as veterans using rank after separation, I view it as I do professional titles - it lets people addressing you know where you came from, what you've been through. Generally speaking, if some guy named Mikel just up and offers unsolicited advice on a subject, I'm much less likely to give weight to he says than I am to advice offered in passing by Col. Burroughs (USMC, Ret.).

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 9:16 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 09:16:43 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs First respect breeds respect. Even if you don't know the person, having achieved relatively high rank is usually an indicator that the person earned it. You could possibly get social promotions up to about E-6 or O-3, but after that results are expected and are hard to fake. So if even those of us who are no longer required to use rank continue to give appropriate respect, it sets the example for those still serving.

Those not in the military making rank a big deal are social climbers, i.e. leeches seeking unearned benefit or expressing jealousy at what they think someone else has. It's basically insecurity. But whomever married them has to live with them, so don't make their lives any harder. They have enough problems.

I'll generally call you Sir, unless I use RP's system of inserting COL Mikel J. Burroughs because you have clearly earned it, as well as being a voice of moderation in helping keeping the discussions here civilized. You are certainly above me in that respect. While I'd prefer to be civil, some posters here just demand to have their silly-assed opinions stomped on.

There is no one here from E-1 to O-10 who is disrespecting me by using my first name. I'm a retiree. Anyone who feels differently should remain in the service until they get over it. There's nothing sadder than the retired 1SG still trying to hold formation, or the retired LTC looking for his driver and boot polisher.

Response by Sgt Diane Jankowski made Jan 24 at 2017 9:43 AM

Sgt Diane Jankowski — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 09:43:31 -0500

I have heard of a active duty commander getting all the officers wives together and asking them to line up according to their spouses rank. They even went so far as to use time in service. When they had gotten all lined up, he procrefer to tell them in no uncertain terms that while their spouses had earned their ranks. That spouses of military members have NO rank, and therefore they needed to quit pulling rank as they themselves had none.

Response by Sgt Diane Jankowski made Jan 24 at 2017 10:05 AM

Sgt Diane Jankowski — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 10:05:27 -0500

Sometimes I think these people were probably a pain in the arse in high school and just never grew up beyond that.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Jan 24 at 2017 11:14 AM

SrA James Cannon — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 11:14:00 -0500

Some folks have no life or identity outside of the military. That must be a boring existence.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 24 at 2017 12:51 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:51:56 -0500

Response to basic question needs to be divided into two parts. Retired persons and active duty persons. As a retired officer, I don't expect any special courtesy from my fellow retirees and active duty personnel. Active duty personnel of lower rank often give traditional military courtesies, such as saying "sir", when they recognize me as a retied O-5. I appreciate this and realize they aren't required to extend such courtesies.

The retirement community is a different matter. Some people seem to be "hung up" on their previous rank while others have comfortably moved on to being "Mister" or "Ms". I worked in a private corporation for over 15 years after I retired. Our field office was populated almost entirely by retired personnel and veterans. We did DoD work. In that environment it was difficult to get past the person's previous rank. We were all very comfortable with the military rank structure and probably tended to think of each other in our former rank. Unfortunately this disadvantaged job applicants who were retired NCOs who had completed advanced degrees and gained valuable experience after retirement. They were still though of as "technicians" instead of the higher paid "analysts." After about 5 years the business grew and we began hiring more people. As a retired Lt Col, I was faced with interviewing and hiring retired Cols and Sgts. I had to put their rank aside and evaluate them on their ability to do the job and the likelihood they would fit in with the project teams. In some cases the retired NCOs were better candidates for the jobs than the retired colonels and we made the appropriate decisions. I ended up with two retired colonels working for me. We got along fine. We all used our first names or Mister. The clients, mostly military officers knew we were veterans, but treated us all about the same. The only retired person I show deference to almost always is a retired Maj Gen I am honored to know and call a friend.

My last 6 years of employment were in the public sector. We are prohibited from using our retired rank in any way as a civil servant. Interestingly, the organization hired retired officers and placed them in positions very similar to what they would have had as an active duty officer. Several of the Directors (GS-15) were retired O-6s (some were active duty O-6s). Division chiefs (GS-14) were often retired LTCs, while many of their military counterparts were active duty O5s. At the branch level, the retired rank, or lack thereof, was less important because very few branch chiefs were active duty. A retired E-8 broke the mold when he was hired as the Deputy Director of Operations (GS-15) and went on to become the Director of Personnel and Logistics (GS-15). He is an excellent leader and completely deserved the positions. Our Commander was a MG and the Deputy to the Commander (senior civilian) was an SES-2 (2-star equivalent). That only became somewhat uncomfortable when the Commander was a BG. They usually were promoted in their first few months as Commander.

Response by TSgt Dan Decker made Jan 24 at 2017 10:51 PM

TSgt Dan Decker — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 22:51:02 -0500

One of my favorite officers was a Lt. Col John A. Parker and his wife. He was a back seater in RF-4Cs during the Vietnam War. I didn't meet him until after we were both retired out of the service. Both of them were model veterans. His wife never wore his rank and he never overruled the head of household. We visited them often as members of the same post-service group, the Thailand, Laos, Cambodia Brotherhood. My wife and I were always treated as equals who had served our country, although I retired as a TSgt. His nickname was Amos the Famous. I've never known a better example of a true Air Force officer. Sadly, he has flown West, departing several years ago. I miss him.

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Jan 31 at 2017 3:37 PM

1LT Rich Voss — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:37:08 -0500

Colonel - because "people". It really would be "nice" if folks behaved that way...i.e. mutual respect, and getting along. My personal observation and experience shows otherwise. Because of my motivation, education etc, I was able to jump from draftee to OCS to the Officer corp. That made me "different". It also gave me more pay, a car, the ability to travel all over Europe. Women in Europe immediately saw that distinction and often opted to date or marry Officers over EMs. I don't "make the rules". Because, as a Second Lieutenant, I also got to wear my Dress Blues and wait on the Women's Officers Wives Club luncheons and dinners on base, I saw first hand, where at the table those wives sat, who was given deference, served first etc. Since housing was also based on rank and pay, there were certainly expectations that transferred to civilian life. Again, "I don't make the rules". The town I live in is "chock-full" of Professors, and believe me, most of the wives (or male spouses) do play the "rank card" as they are married to a "Doctor" or "a Doctor with TENURE !" As the late beloved Kurt Vonnegut might say: "so it goes..."

Response by PO3 Andrew Kelly made Feb 1 at 2017 1:33 PM

PO3 Andrew Kelly — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 13:33:37 -0500

This is a little off topic but this thread brings back an incident that occurred in our squadron back in the mid 80's
We had a young officer who committed the sin of getting involved with an enlisted clerk. The only reason it was decided to not make an official issue of the relationship was the fact that due to the specialties of the two of them there was no situation that he would be in a position of authority over her. In time they married and they weathered the unofficial punishment for his actions. (He was kept on continuous deployments for almost 9 months in a squadron where normal turn-around for deployments was 3 months.)
Here is the point where this intersects this thread.
As his wife the young lady was entitled to frequent the Officer's Club and was invited to join the OWC. From the stories that she told of the workings of that organization many of us became aware of the differences between the two wives clubs.
The OWC ran on the rank card, is the commanding officer's wife was not the president then the president routinely deferred to her and the likelihood of holding an office in the organization was proportional to the rank of the spouse.
The EWC on the other hand was run on merit of the individual rather than the rank of the spouse. The command master chief's wife was no more important than the wife of an Airman.
As a side note the young lady drove the Officers wives crazy because she would not get involved with the rank card games as she her own rank and thus her own identity removed from their games.

I also was aware of the games because I had agreed to assume the First Aid CPR training chair at the base Red Cross and as such worked closely with the nursing chair to find courses for the wives who were nurses to keep up their Continuing Education Credits to keep their certifications as RNs. (We were overseas and neither the base infirmary nor the host government would allow them to work.) So I regularly got to hear about the rank games going on over at the OC.

As an enlisted person my interest in these things was peripheral at best. The only wife that affected us was the Admiral's wife. Soon after he assumed command of the base she visited the Navy Exchange and became offended at some of the videos in the rental department as well as the magazines offered by both the exchange and the Stars and Stripes store. She used her influence with her husband to force the exchange to remove the offending material from the exchange. (She was not successful with the S&S store since they did not fall under the liaison officer's authority.) As such she was not well beloved by anyone on the base.

Response by Capt Jim Ross made Feb 1 at 2017 10:14 PM

Capt Jim Ross — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 22:14:57 -0500

As a mustang, I never cared for the wives wearing the husbands rank unless he was an O-6 or above. Many of the wives my wife would visit with did not believe her husband (me) was an officer. Having spent half of my career as enlisted I saw both the wives of officers and senior enlisted behave in manners I could not believe due to their husbands rank. Now I am retired, (over 20 yrs) I am not around many military other than a few friends who were senior NCO's when they retired and we have know them for years, one couple while I was still enlisted. Just act accordingly and be polite is all I can say.

Response by SPC John Lebiecki made Feb 14 at 2017 3:24 PM

SPC John Lebiecki — Tue, 14 Feb 2017 15:24:10 -0500

I dont understand why anyone plays the "rank card" after getting out of the service. It bears 0 weight to anything.

Response by SSG Edward Messervy made Feb 15 at 2017 9:04 AM

SSG Edward Messervy — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 09:04:53 -0500

I'll only use rank out of Respect. Most times in aviation we use first names for better crew coordination. I particularly like using first names, you become better friends then an acquaintance.

Response by SPC David Whitney made Feb 15 at 2017 9:30 AM

SPC David Whitney — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 09:30:59 -0500

I am in total agreement. Some of my best retired military friends were high-ranking officers and I never got above SPC and it has never had an effect on our good relationships.

Response by SPC David Whitney made Feb 15 at 2017 10:26 AM

SPC David Whitney — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:26:57 -0500

After reading through this string of comments, I would like to post a piece on an unusual military experience some of us had, all of which seems to point up the futility of trying to maintain "rank" designations beyond active military duty and even on active duty in some instances:

Army Security Agency

The ASA, during the majority of the years of its existence, from 1945 to 1975, was largely a “Cold War” operation within a conscripted Army (the draft ended in 1973). ASA enlisted troops were recruited from the top 10% of the aptitude scoring range until 1965, which ultimately proved to be a very serious problem for the civilian National Security Agency that largely exercised control over the ASA until that time. Of all the Army organizations that recruited from the top 10% (OCS Programs, Warrant Officer Programs, Special Forces Programs, etc.), only the ASA failed to gain the benefits inherent in having such staff, just as the average member of the enlisted staff gained little or no benefit from the ASA experience. Never in Army history, since the end of World War II, has there been such a waste of outstanding human resources. However, as we are dealing with what was a highly classified organization, the full story will never be written. The ASA managed to completely frustrate the intentions of the Department of the Army and the massive turnover of highly intelligent ASA staff proved to be an administrative nightmare. The entire organization was, understandably, eliminated as soon as possible after the creation of the all-volunteer, professional Army. Until 1965, the ASA contained some of the brightest enlisted soldiers in the Army. Few stayed very long, although a very few did wind up as professionals in the National Security Agency ASA bases, frequently shoved up against the Soviets and Red Chinese, from northern Europe to the Near East, southern Asia, and northern Japan and Korea, were often rather crude, isolated outposts. In short, the ASA was notoriously the worst job assignment area in the Army and the organization would certainly not have been sustainable in today’s all-volunteer Army. The ASA championed a "4Rs" practice of No Rank, No Recognition, No Respect, and No Record. If a modern SIGINT Officer was confronted with an old ASA type Spec 3/4 from the Agency's mid-life point of 1960, with a college degree and an I.Q. of 120 to 130, he or she would probably be quite shocked. Still, the officer would no doubt be delighted to get such a Soldier for $27 a week, as was the NSA and their Rent-a-Trooper operation. Still ASA personnel were among the earliest U.S. military advisors in Vietnam. The first ASA combat fatality in Vietnam took place in 1961. This was Specialist James T. Davis for whom Davis Station in Saigon was named. President Lyndon Johnson later termed Davis "the first American to fall in the defense of our freedom in Vietnam".

To demonstrate how insignificant rank after active duty is, as a jounalist in civilian life I once covered a reunion of the 4th Marine Division whose commander in World War II had been Gen Clifton Bledsoe Cates, the 19th Commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps. His name tag read "Clifton Gates, Gen. (U.S. Marine Corps. Ret.)". Mine read "Dave Whitney, SP3 (U.S. Army Ret.)".

Ironically, on the 100th anniversary of Missouri Military Academy Clifton Gates and I were named two of the schools 12 Outstanding Alumni in the schools first century. Rank apparently made no difference!

Response by CPL Daniel Cunningham made Feb 15 at 2017 10:32 AM

CPL Daniel Cunningham — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:32:53 -0500

As a veteran who has worked in the world of Recruitment for the past 10 years, most prior service has adapted well to civilian life. Those that struggle with leaving "rank at the door" are the folks that usually have a hard time once they have started a new position.

Response by A1C Clay Slater made Feb 15 at 2017 10:52 AM

A1C Clay Slater — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:52:40 -0500

I got out of the Air Force as an E-3, but I give the same amount of respect to anyone no matter what rank they are/were.

Response by SPC Johnney Abbott made Feb 15 at 2017 12:11 PM

SPC Johnney Abbott — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:11:02 -0500

Because it's hard to let go of. If you're used to be called sir/ ma'am ... SGM.... etc you get used to it. As for it carrying over to civilian life, I think it means you have insecurities. There's not much out here that needs the rank you held while you were in.

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Feb 15 at 2017 12:16 PM

MAJ Norm Michaels — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:16:03 -0500

In 1991, I was an Army captain temporarily serving at General H. Norman Schwarzkopf's USCENTCOM HQs in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. I was in line at a men's room at the underground HQs. In walks General Schwarzkopf. All six of us in line backed away offering him to go ahead of us. He looked at us, and said "Good Choice". He then rushed to do his business.

I was an Army captain in 1992 standing in the pharmacy line at the MacDill AFB hospital. Up walks recently retired General H Norman Schwarzkopf for his prescription. I immediately backed up, asking him to move to the head of the line. He declined, saying that it was his honor to give preference to those that still serve.

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Feb 15 at 2017 12:34 PM

MAJ Norm Michaels — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:34:28 -0500

I was happy for my son when he met the girl of his dreams, and they planned to marry. His fiance didn't seem to like us much; I got the impression that she was looking down on us, like she had a higher station in life than us. My wife and I met her parents at a restaurant. Her father spent the entire evening telling us about what a wonderful person he was and how he had recently retired as a Lieutenant Colonel from the Air Force. He never once asked about us, my wife or me.

Months later at the wedding, I saw him dressed in his Air Force Dress Uniform to give away the bride. We ended up talking at the reception for a bit, and I congratulated him for his receiving the Air Force Meritorious Service Medal. He seemed surprised that I recognized medals and asked me how I knew them. I said that I was also once in the military, the US Army. He wanted to know why I had not worn my uniform, so I told him. This was our children's wedding; it was their time in the spotlight, not ours. And... we are retired; why would we wear our dress uniform to anybody's wedding? Isn't that chapter in our lives closed? It's all just a shadow box now. These were good memories, but it's time to move on.

He has not spoken to me since.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2017 12:41 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:41:47 -0500

This drives me crazy. It's annoying and petty. It's military member's rank who EARNED it, not the spouses rank who MARRIED into it.

Response by MSgt Richard Randall made Feb 15 at 2017 2:10 PM

MSgt Richard Randall — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:10:22 -0500

Many years ago, when I was stationed at Vandenberg AFB, CA, a friend, and fellow midlevel NCO, finally got a day off after working almost 30 days straight on launch operations. It was finally GOLF DAY! Off we headed to the base golf course to sacrifice a few Titleist to the water gods and chase what was left around the course. As we were about to tee up on #1 a somewhat older man asked if he could join our twosome. Sure, no problem. We introduced ourselves… I’m Rick, this is Frank, and the other fellow said his name was Jim. For the next few hours the three of us beat those little balls into submission telling stupid jokes, laughing at bad shots and high fiving over good puts. The one thing we did not do was talk shop.

At the end of 18 I offered to buy a round before it was time to head out. Jim said he appreciated the offer but had to get back. Frank and I watched him walk out to the parking lot and get into his staff car with two stars on the plate. Frank and I just looked at each other with that “holy shit” look on our faces. Turned out he was the new division commander and was out there to blow out some cobwebs and get away from business for a while.

Golf is the great equalizer.

Response by SMSgt Roger Horton made Feb 15 at 2017 2:46 PM

SMSgt Roger Horton — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:46:02 -0500

In my almost 40 years of service my Wife never used my Rank for anything. When I was home I was and still am her husband, lover, and best friend. Many of the Marines I served with still call me Top and I don't mind that cause it is the title they knew. Maybe I have led a sheltered life as I have not encountered this problem and if Barbara has she did not let it be known. Maybe wives do this because it could be they are treated this way by their husbands.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Feb 15 at 2017 3:11 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:11:51 -0500

I've had that happen to me once here in a pretty obvious way. I've been out 27 years, a lot has happened since then. We've also self identified here as who we may have been a long time ago. Sometimes people will mistake that for a person's current reality. I don't really begrudge the mistake as long as they don't continue with the assumption after it has been pointed out.

Response by SSgt Ron Dexter made Feb 15 at 2017 6:17 PM

SSgt Ron Dexter — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:17:09 -0500

I don't live in an area where the rank card has ever come up in my nearly 17 years of civilian life. I now work at the VA and have yet to meet a Veteran who tried to use their past rank to further along their needs. Maybe that is just an anomaly here in Maine, as I have no experience elsewhere since leaving Active Duty.

I'm Facebook friends with some CMSgts (E-9) I was assigned with along the way. I still always address them as Chief! 1% of the AF is made up of Chiefs at any given time. I respect that.

Response by SPC Kayle Benedix made Feb 15 at 2017 6:56 PM

SPC Kayle Benedix — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:56:09 -0500

Personally I've never understood that. When I got out of the service I figured we were ALL equals.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2017 10:33 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:33:27 -0500

This is based on individual beliefs and ethics that they were probably brought up on in life, of just in the military based on the leadership they had. Sad as we are all service members or spouses of services members and we still have to break up into categories like this. Even now in Kansas where I bought my house, my next door neighbor is a Major. My son is best friends with his son and our wives are always talking whenever they cross paths while outside. This Major knows I am a Staff Sergeant however doesn't let that effect the friendship our family has with each other as I still give him proper customs and courtesies and display respect towards him as an Officer. Still we have conversations and talk outside of work without the rank structure being an issue. Some may think this is wrong, however, I believe and standby that we are both human beings and enjoy friendly conversation with trusted neighbors.

Response by PO1 Bill O made Feb 16 at 2017 10:31 AM

PO1 Bill O — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:31:00 -0500

Oh yeah, military bravado still carries on in the after life!

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Feb 18 at 2017 12:03 AM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Sat, 18 Feb 2017 00:03:28 -0500

Well first of all, I'm sorry that your wife had to experience such uncalled for behavior. That's just down right ugly and tells me a lot about the other women and or "people" who do this. It's called "low self-esteem" among other "labels". I first address an Officer (Ret.) as Sir. And or by their rank. And then if comfortable enough and by asking, I will then call them by their first name. Pulling rank is just weird and show offie. I didn't even do it while on duty. My question is....Why would you need to pull rank after retirement and why would a spouse feel the need to do so? What is it that they get? All ego....

Response by SGT Stephen Tucker made Feb 28 at 2017 8:27 AM

SGT Stephen Tucker — Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:27:12 -0500

I feel like spouses have no right at all to use there significant others rank it any way shape or form. They did not perform the actually service to there country. Yes I am aware they supported there loved ones through some hard times however that does not give them the right to use there rank. After everyone is out of the service its ok to originally know there rank so you can understand there mind set of where they are coming from but after that I don't think it really makes a difference. You all served your country and thats all you need to know about someone to have open up a conversation.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Feb 28 at 2017 8:39 AM

MSgt Don Dobbs — Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:39:00 -0500

Any dependent who has a need to play the rank game retired or otherwise is promptly put in their place by me. I have no qualms in telling them very quickly they are nothing more than a civilian who happens to be allowed on Base/ Post. As a member of a very large motorcycle group we have a number of retired and active duty members. No one in the group uses rank or even their position in the group as a wedge. We simply call each other by our names or road names. The respect is there always for ones position, but rank is a non-player. We consider ourselves brothers and sisters military and civilian.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Mar 1 at 2017 6:05 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 18:05:47 -0500

I think it's all about transitioning. It takes longer for some than others to out process in their minds. Had a mil to mil couple come into my office and start bitching about all of the other veteran services offices they had gone to including the vet center because all the services were for low income or homeless veterans. I offered them a scholarship for college and then they told me they both had masters degrees and he was a Col just retired and she was a Maj just retired. The funniest part is when they told me that one of my friends who is a counselor at the vet center basically told them to shut up and drop the rank and entitlement because even though he was only a master sergeant in the AF they were both veterans now and they were equal. I guess from what my friend said when I asked him about it that they both looked flabbergasted at him and then stormed out saying how dare you talk to a Col like that.

Other than that one instance most 99% of the time no one mentions rank in my office unless like the VFW scholarship there is a rank requirement for it. Now if I know that you are an officer I'll still call you sir or by rank but if you are a vet it's always first name.

Response by SSG Michael Lutz made Mar 7 at 2017 5:02 PM

SSG Michael Lutz — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 17:02:11 -0500

Playing the rank card, is a carry over from when they or their spouse was active duty. The people that still do it, are those that put their self worth in the rank of their spouse. However, an Officer and NCO, are still due respect for their rank. Remember we can be recalled into active duty at any time. I will address them by rank unless they request other wise.

Response by MSG Don Burt made Mar 23 at 2017 10:44 PM

MSG Don Burt — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:44:35 -0400

Common courtesy and common sense are front runners but then you always have to contend
with moronic idiots somewhere along the line. It's there loss and ignorance do to being raised with silver spoon in their mouth...

Response by SPC Max Thompson made Mar 24 at 2017 12:23 AM

SPC Max Thompson — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:23:40 -0400

Well. A little backstory will do. Sorry. I was a pvt. in the Army in Leonardwood Basic when I was informed I passed all the tests and I was, by God officer materiel. I was 17 years old. They told me I could spend 1 year in prep school, four years in WEST POINT, and five years after that as an officer. I added that up on my fingers and came up with 27. I would be an old man before I could leave the service. I turned that down to hump an m-60 in the 504 PIR. Bear with me. My uncle was a light bird in the air force, my dad a mustang in the Army. My family bleeds green. Grandad was 3ID in war one. Great uncle died of the Spanish flu in 1919 at Dix. There was a lot of pressure on me to accept an appointment to West Point. Being an officer requires more from a human being than is taught in school. Being an officer should mean that you lead from the front. For some strange reason being an officer also means that you must marry right and play all the political games to earn higher rank. Well, from the grunts point of view assholes focused on their careers get us killed. And wives focused on furthering their husbands careers get us killed. And the wives never change. Prove me wrong.

Response by PO3 Daniel Stone made Mar 24 at 2017 9:58 AM

PO3 Daniel Stone — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:58:03 -0400

Being 20 years removed from military life, I find this to be idiotic. My main goal when I got out was to fit in to the civilian community. Many veterans find trouble when seeking work because they don't check their rank at the door. They should do the same with friendships because it is foolish. You can never have enough friends regardless of rank!

Response by COL Mark Crowley made Mar 24 at 2017 9:58 AM

COL Mark Crowley — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:58:44 -0400

IMHO we are all brothers in arms and should respect each others' service. In my circle there is a lot of friendly joshing about the various branches but never never any rancor.

Response by SPC Saundra Teater made Mar 24 at 2017 10:01 AM

SPC Saundra Teater — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:01:44 -0400

No. Why would anyone care what rank you were after being processed out. In civilian life, you earn respect by your actions

Response by SPC Alan Feinstein made Mar 24 at 2017 10:07 AM

SPC Alan Feinstein — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:07:42 -0400

I believe it may be a more common occurrence among spouses (the power by osmosis syndrome). I do a charity ruck each year in Ct. and have great days, and nights, spent with many active Reservists. Rucked with a CSM this year, and a 1stLt. and a Msg the year before. there was never an issue. the year before I spent at least 15 minutes before, and again after, with a one Star who was there for the event. I wear my BDU's and my Spec4 rank, and generally carry 40+lbs of canned goods in my old Alice. Hard to believe a Vet would disrespect another Vet

Response by PO1 Martin Findley made Mar 24 at 2017 10:43 AM

PO1 Martin Findley — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:43:03 -0400

When I was married, it was on active duty. I actually had one of my chief petty officers over me, order me to introduce my wife to him. The wives have no life, the ones that live through their husbands military rank. IMHO

Response by Sgt John H. made Mar 24 at 2017 10:46 AM

Sgt John H. — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:46:28 -0400

I don't think you need petty friends. Anyone that discriminates because of their perceived importance does not need to be included in your friend list......This happens in the corporate world also.

Response by 1SG James Lyon made Mar 24 at 2017 10:50 AM

1SG James Lyon — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:50:04 -0400

I have always believed that the rank issue between spouses is ridiculous and petty. There should be a mutual respect and support between spouses. You would think that rather than think less of a person because of their rank that there would be a genuine recognition of the sacrifices made as a result of their spouses rank. Regarding being addressed by my rank after retirement I have to admit that when i'm addressed as 1SG or Top by another service member that my chest puffs out some but I would rather be adressed by my name.

Response by PO1 Cynthia Arnold made Mar 24 at 2017 10:58 AM

PO1 Cynthia Arnold — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:58:27 -0400

Well, if I had done that, I wouldn't be married. My husband was a Captain in the Army. A Vietnam Veteran. Nor would I have one of my best friends who was a Major in the Army. And HIS wife has no problem being friends with me either. So, I think it may be that particular lady. During our service, of course, we had guidelines to follow, but even then, officers wives should have been able to get along regardless of rank. Same as enlisted wives. If this lady is using YOUR rank as an excuse, your wife can laugh about it. It isn't your wife's problem but the other woman's.

Response by SSgt Zac Ruttman made Mar 24 at 2017 11:37 AM

SSgt Zac Ruttman — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:37:16 -0400

Yes, rank establishes an order of authority. It also verifies (in most cases) longevity and skill. Respect should be given accordingly. However, in post-service/civilian life, it is merely a badge of service. Same respect should be given. But, a level of commonality should be established amongst all ranks and services...respectfully. First name basis' are appropriate with the same level of respect as if we are still serving. The area we struggle with is concerning a person's sense of self-superiority and entitlement. A Captain is not "better than" a lieutenant. The Captain simply has a higher position of authority. The "better than" or "superiority complex" with some (or inferiority complex) is where we see conflicts with those types of individuals. ....my opinion.

Response by MSG Mark Million made Mar 24 at 2017 1:43 PM

MSG Mark Million — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:43:05 -0400

I tend to go with what is comfortable, retired superiors usually have my respect and as such will normally be addressed by me with the rank that they earned. If Someone requests use of names or, should they want to be addressed by their retire rank, I am more than happy to oblige. However to insist on using a retired rank, that is something I personally would never do, and I don't know many if any that would.

Response by SPC Don Wynn made Mar 24 at 2017 2:05 PM

SPC Don Wynn — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:05:20 -0400

Sometimes it's hard to let go of that authority that you had. I would say that is especially true in the combat arms sections, where pretty much higher rank makes you God. It's also hard to compensate if you were a bully with your rank. In reality, once you have left active service, rank no longer should be an issue. Personally, I show respect to members who had attained rank, primarily due to the fact that they had served for a far longer time than I had. But, that is where it ends. You have my respect, but I will not kowtow to anyone based on prior rank.

Spouses, hard to say why that is. It would seem a bit outdated that wives hold their worth to be based on their husband's job or rank. Active duty I can somewhat understand; you don't want a LT's wife getting into it with a LTC's wife at the PX! But, in your situation, I don't get why the other one is still referencing your former rank.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 24 at 2017 2:22 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:22:25 -0400

The little guy in the suit defeated the French, fought us to a standstill, defeated the Khmer Rouge while stopping the Communist Chinese in their tracks and didn't need to pull rank

Response by SSgt Ryan Sylvester made Mar 24 at 2017 3:11 PM

SSgt Ryan Sylvester — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:11:50 -0400

I don't get it. Is there some kind of Col-on-Maj infighting I don't know about? Was she just mad cuz her half of the pension isn't enough to divorce him for, and that jealousy kicked in?

Honestly, rank goes out the window when we take off that uniform. Not the respect, though. When I'm walking through my VAMC, unless it's someone I interact with daily and I'm calling them by name, they get a Sir/Ma'am. Doctor, nurse, police, clerk, shuttle driver, housekeeping... doesn't matter. Heck, doesn't even matter if they wore the uniform or not, to me. It's respect to the person, and self-respect to treat others the way I would like to be treated.

Seriously, though... it takes a petty person to put a title over general respect for another. If someone has some serious issue with me because I was a Staff in uniform for what amounts to 11 years of my life... eh. Their problem, not mine. The good thing about these days is, I'm not bound by any regulation. They might get the good ol' one-finger salute, but that's about as much effort as I'm willing to put into a miserable sack of potatoes.

Response by SGT Annalisa Elliott made Mar 24 at 2017 3:29 PM

SGT Annalisa Elliott — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:29:03 -0400

Sounds more as poor character is in military wives, the disrespect they initiate is never ending. Seems they need their own training...

Response by PO2 Jeffery Reiser made Mar 24 at 2017 3:51 PM

PO2 Jeffery Reiser — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:51:19 -0400

You were, are and always will be a Colonel. You earned that position. Your wife was your wife. A military spouse is in my book the most unappreciated person to never serve but always serve. As veterans and retirees, we hold a high place of honor for eachother and our service but we should never disrespect those who stayed behind to run the ship while we were away performing that service. That act was disgraceful but as you know sir, you just can't fix STUPID and Haters are going to hate! Thank your wife for her service as she has earned it also! With kind regards, RM2(SS) USN

Response by SPC Paul C. made Mar 24 at 2017 4:55 PM

SPC Paul C. — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:55:28 -0400

When I see a Veterans rank, I have a lot of respect for the work and training they had to go through to get there, but I also realize that their rank is only a part of who they are. When a soldier exits the military due to ETS or retirement, they enter the civilian world and continue to grow. Some Veterans are very succesful in the civilian world and others not so much. I was a Specialist (E-4) when I was active duty years ago (relatively low rank). The military had a huge impact on my life and after 25 years in the civilian world, I am a very different person from what I was then. I hope that my fellow Veterans will see me for who I am today. Coming from the military it is difficult not to look at rank because it was so much a part of the military culture.

Response by SPC Cameron Hale made Mar 25 at 2017 11:20 AM

SPC Cameron Hale — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:20:49 -0400

Show some damn respect, I'm a pv2 promotable!

Response by SGT Ty Henderson made Mar 25 at 2017 3:47 PM

SGT Ty Henderson — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:47:37 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs On the flip side of the "rank card" issue, I have some former employees that call me "Gen'ral". I happened to be in the Nat'l Guard at the time they reported to me. I still get a good laugh whenever I hear them say it. My current team of employees contains a wide spectrum of veterans that has people placed according to skills, talents and abilities so if they were divided by military rank, there'd be some disgruntled folks reporting to lower ranking people all over the place. Most likely though, they don't care because it is in the past, we aren't encumbered by the military hierarchy, and we are on a new mission with a corporate rule set.

Response by PO2 Sybil "TT" I. made Mar 26 at 2017 1:18 AM

PO2 Sybil "TT" I. — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 01:18:48 -0400

The first problem is that the Major's wife thinks her husbands rank or yours has anything to do with her or your wife at all (as if she or your wife somehow earned the title and respect due the rank).

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Mar 26 at 2017 4:49 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:49:07 -0400

A few days after I had arrived home on leave after coming home from S.E.A., I
was at a local mall in uniform to meet up with some
Acquaintances and they hadn't arrived yet
and I came across a couple Airmen that were cutting up and behaving inappropriately in uniform and not properly uniformed (shirts untucked,
Buttons untucked, ect.., open containers.,). I approached them and asked to see their Identification.. one of them got smart with me (s'thing about
being on leave, not on duty, ect.,). . I voluntold him to stand down and stand to the side.. I'd talk to him ina few minutes.
I asked if they had leave papers and the one that got smart the 1st time mouthed off again.. "Airman, I told you to stand down and be quiet !" I told him again..
The other two were cooperative and straightening themselves up to look more like Airmen should(a mall mgt. person csme up with a mall security officer and started to interfere.. "Excuse us ma'am, I'm getting some information here and I'll be with you in a few minutes!" She interrupted and said I was out of line checking IDs and writing stuff down on Mall property.. I finished with the other two Airmen and they went and sat off on a
Bench to wait.. I then started on the third Airman.. She interrupted again and tried to grab my notebook, pen and his I.D. And leave papers.. I was taller and held them up so she couldn't reach.. I finished getting his info and and returned him his
Things and tucked my pen and book away and went to meet my friends. She approached me and said she wanted my notebook.. "No ma'am, that's gov't property, I have to turn that in.!" "You illegally obtained it on private property
and I want it SSGT!" "Sorry, you still can't have it!" and I left, she was steaming,
Ready to blow a gasket.. She told the Mall
Officer To ask me for my ID, "No ma'am, he's AF NCO, and they are Airmen, He was doing what sn NCO does!" Dang, I liked that guy!".. I went in the restaurant where they were and we ordered.. I went out the side door to the street after paying my bill and got in my car and left.. I wondered how long she waited outside that door until realizing I was not coming out? After arriving at my.base, I talked to
My 1st Sgt. and he said he'd handle it.. I asked him what would he had done.. "Prob'ly like You SSGT but a bit more wall to wall counseling,".. He handled it.. I didn't find out for about a month what went down with them guys... When I did,
I found out it wasn't pretty.. they were on leave between tech school and their new base. Their Gaining Cmdr. (Who's 1SG my 1SG called ) said he took appropriate action in accordance with Art 134 of the UCMJ. Most likely Nonjudicial punishment.. letter of admonishment.
So no further statement from me(I'd already gave my 1SG my notes.. and he went from that, so I took it they other 1SG
Did also. I was surprised their gaining Cmdr. Didn't want a more detailed statement. I received a letter from him for "Upholding the Standards of the United Stated Air Force ..". I went home
On leave the next Spring.. I thought it best to stay away from that mall.. I think that mgr. wanted some of My hide.. and was hoping some day to get some. . So why take that chance.!..

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2017 9:36 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 21:36:04 -0400

I believe that except for saluting (when in uniform at special events) and appropriate courtesies you take your rank off when retired or veteran.

Response by SFC Don Vance made Mar 27 at 2017 9:29 AM

SFC Don Vance — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:29:48 -0400

Mikel, after retirement I believe that rank should only be used to quantify and/or qualify an individual experience. As an example a Colonel's experience on the battlefield is much different then a Sergeant's but in no way more important. The veterans that I associate with usually don't know or don't care what my rank was, we use first names. A spouse should never use her husband's rank!

Response by SFC Stephen King made Mar 27 at 2017 12:13 PM

SFC Stephen King — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 12:13:23 -0400

Call me Stephen. I realize this is an old post but I prefer to be addressed by my name not my rank. I can't tell you how many times people of higher rank express it to me to this day and I really could care less. Great you were that now you need to gain a different perspective anf help with the growth of the company. Resting on on's accomplishment's and or rank is a trigger for this retired Military member.

Response by MAJ Glenn Lasater made Mar 30 at 2017 5:04 PM

MAJ Glenn Lasater — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:04:03 -0400

I'm not sure what you're addressing when you use the phrase "stereotype by rank." In my experience, the stereotyping I've observed over the last 54 years has been regarding branch of service, Army branch, and MOS/AFSC/Rating. I served as enlisted, NCO and Officer in the Air Force and Army. I earned every promotion I received through hard work, dedication, and sacrifice and I'm damned proud of that. Although I am many things to many people, one of the most important in my opinion is that I'm a Major, USA (Retired). That''s a designation that I'm authorized to use for whatever legal purpose I see fit. I earned it.

In my second career, I was responsible to recruit, screen, and hire employees for a large private company. Although I always attempted to hire the best qualified candidate, all things being equal, I'll take a veteran every time. Why? Because I stereotype veterans as disciplined, dedicated, mission aware, goal oriented, team players who define, understand, and strive for success. Based on the type of discharge, length of service, branch of service, rank, job specialty, and training and qualifications, I can get a very accurate appraisal of what the individual brings to the company and what the best fit may be based on those stereotypes.

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Mar 31 at 2017 1:04 AM

1LT Rich Voss — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:04:59 -0400

COL - From reading your post, I'm more inclined to say it was a branch issue, rather than a rank issue. Have seen, and experienced, that I my long life. Late brother-in-law and one father-in-law, both Marines, cousins in Navy and Air Force, SEAL friend, an other cousin 101st Airborne. THOSE are (or were) some interesting discussions. On the other hand, the guys in my Battalion that are having our reunion next month...well, first name basis in all our e-mails to one another, and in person. Way back when we were guarding the Fulda Gap, we froze together, ate the same chow, got muddy & wet and were out in the field from Fall to Spring basically, those are exceptions. Not many of us left. The funniest story re: women using their husband's rank from that time....Officer's Wives Luncheon, young officers like me serving drinks etc (in dress blues, of course) chairwoman has surprise gift for "highest ranking Officer" there. Brigade CO's wife stands to accept said gift, but NO, the gift is given to a visiting female Israeli Army Major. WOW, fur and feathers flew after THAT ! LOL

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 7:00 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 07:00:09 -0400

I address retired service members by their rank as a show of respect for what they have done for the country. I do this at all times and honor all veterans regardless of their highest obtained rank. What some people need to understand is there were periods of time when promotions were harder to achieve and the military had less slots for leadership positions. What one NCO could do in past years takes three of four to do now. I am not knocking the NCO or Officer corps, however with all the stress mitigation we face in todays military and the high OPTEMPO there is a higher calling for leadership. I think it is an honor to talk to veterans and I feel you can gain a lot of operational and professional knowledge from their experiences.

Response by Capt Dwayne Conyers made Apr 12 at 2017 10:32 AM

Capt Dwayne Conyers — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:32:25 -0400

Well, COL Mikel J. Burroughs, I am Facebook friends with members of my first USAF flight and some call me “Dwayne,” others “LT.” I never say, “Call me Captain (or Major-selectee).”

As for those desperate housewives :-) however…

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 11:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:34:17 -0400

I've been in a. Purple situations where the spouse (no rank or title) has pulled her husbands rank card, while on Active duty. I had no respect for then then, and definitely don't now after retirement. Those who served is another matter. I respect the man or woman who had higher grades then me, but after retirement I take everything at face value. If you respect me, I'll respect you - rank or grade has nothing to do with it.

Response by SPC Woody Bullard made Apr 12 at 2017 1:10 PM

SPC Woody Bullard — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:10:55 -0400

COL Burroughs: I would like to believe that addressing a veteran or a active duty member on RallyPoint by their former or present military rank is a form of respect for their service. I would never disrespect another person or their spouse because I held a higher rank and pay grade although I never achieved a NCO rank myself. That is what I like about RallyPoint with the discussions among members from PVT. E-2 through the NCO ranks to the Officers ranks. Are there any Generals who are members of RallyPoint?? After leaving the Army I was a police officer for 24 years and that profession also has a rank structure like the military. I really had the feeling I was still in the military.
From the discussions on RallyPoint I have seen I believe the great majority of people do respect each
other and their different opinions on subjects.

Response by Sgt George Lawrence made Apr 12 at 2017 8:30 PM

Sgt George Lawrence — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:30:59 -0400

I think it does not matter for most veterans. My two best friends, brothers, retired as a Marine Corps major and the other an Air Force Colonel while I left the Marine Corps as a sergeant. Among my neighbors are an Army sergeant, a Marine captain and a Marine Lt.Col. And we don't even think about the rank except that I never fail to mention how proud I am of their achievements, not necessarily the rank but what they did to earn it.

Response by SGT Kevin Berman made Apr 13 at 2017 10:29 AM

SGT Kevin Berman — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:29:28 -0400

I've run across this over the years as I mention my enlisted service, many (not all) retired/former officers change their tune towards me. I mark those that do as folks to just stay away from, not worth my time.

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Apr 13 at 2017 12:12 PM

SCPO Morris Ramsey — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:12:19 -0400

Old habits are hard for old hags and dirtbags to break.

Response by PO2 Danetta Troisi made Apr 13 at 2017 1:17 PM

PO2 Danetta Troisi — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:17:14 -0400

I don't why this is, but I do know it is not necessary. I was enlisted and loved being enlisted. It's what I chose. I have had a former female Navy officer look down her nose at me. Her tone of voice and scoffing at things I know to be basic Navy knowledge let me know that she felt I was not an equal. She soon learned the here in the civilian world activity we are involved with, I "out ranked" her due to my knowledge, experience and time in. We are all the same in the civilian worls.

Response by COL Mark Crowley made Apr 13 at 2017 2:24 PM

COL Mark Crowley — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:24:05 -0400

I remember being at a SRP activity as a physician in the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation Enduring Freedom in Indianapolis and we were processing the troops, and I noticed a Brigadier General sitting in the waiting area with his troops and I said General you are next in line and he told me that I'm here with my troops and will wait my turn with my troops that impressed me a great deal and his troops took me aside later and told me that they would follow him to the gates of Hell without hesitation. I have never forgotten how much respect those troopers had for their General. Now that he is retired, he wants us to call him by his first name and NOT by his rank

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made Apr 13 at 2017 2:37 PM

Cpl Gabriel F. — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:37:54 -0400

Good on you Melissa. Well put. Not her rank. This goes on with in military with the wife and sometimes the children. My fathers the colonel or the general. The ranks move out and unless in garrison duty are not often exposed to Mrs. officer or senior staff NCO. During amphibious warfare training a incident occurred with the admirals wife returning to station driving her Lincoln Continental up to the gate. A young Marine stepped and halted the the vehicle due to a expired station sticker. The old salt saying cuss like a sailor immediately began like a South China sea gail " I am a admirals __ ___ WIFE ! you are nothing but a trashy _______ Marine and on it went with where he would end up thrown in. The young Marine sentry on the gate somehow stood his ground and to keep from being run down as she tried to run the gate the ignition key had to be removed. Apparently Mrs. admiral had a busy cocktail hour. There were T.A.D. grunts along with military police on the gate so the word on the incident went out double quick. When the admiral showed to collect Mrs. admiral the cuss like a sailor barrage was aimed at him. Mrs. admiral's vehicle was parked without being operated aboard station. The admiral actually advised the young Marine he did what was required. Thus his career was not finished in Portsmouth naval prison as predicted.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 13 at 2017 3:05 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:05:39 -0400

Inferiority complex comes to mind, bad experiences, or just one of those people from "the real wives of the Commissary Parking Lot"

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 13 at 2017 8:44 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:44:11 -0400

My signature block's second line reads "USA,Ret", that says it all. I run around with SPC's, NCO's, 1 and 3 star Generals- We address each other by 1st name, tho occasionally rank does creep in (General, Sir, Smaj, etc) But no one beats anybody up- cause WE ARE RETIRED!

Response by LTC Thomas Tennant made Apr 18 at 2017 4:11 PM

LTC Thomas Tennant — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:11:20 -0400

There were many times I respected the rank but not the person who had it. My joke was some people were more "rank" than others because they put too much importance on rank. As the son of a career officer and Having started out as a PV nothing I somehow learned it was more important to treat everyone regardless of rank with the dignity and respect their character and actions deserved. And yes rank did "adjust the equation," but not to the point I looked down on anyone. As I grew into leadership (meaning I make teachable mistakes) I quickly learned that often I did not know what I did not know and I was in a constant state of learning. That means being humble to ask questions...the anti stupid. Where I had my most embarrassing mistakes is when my own inflated self importance and Hubris got in the way of good relationships with those around me. My biggest tactic success came when my SP4 driver saw something, said something and I listen. From there we were able to really do something.

Response by PO3 Michael Hoffman made Apr 20 at 2017 11:29 PM

PO3 Michael Hoffman — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:29:29 -0400

i'm 67 years old and brought up as a dependent of an Air Force officer. When I was a kid there were women and kids who "wore" their sponsors rank. My mom never did and I would have gotten my ass kicked if I tried it. On more than one occasion I overheard my Mom correcting one of her peers who tried to "pull rank". My Mom now rests in Arlington with my Dad, both my heroes.

Response by PO1 Mac MacIntyre made Apr 23 at 2017 6:01 PM

PO1 Mac MacIntyre — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 18:01:57 -0400

These are the same type of people that introduce themselves as "BM1 McGillicutty", or "Captain Fullifsimself". In Uniform, everyone could see my rate, and now that I am retired I am still just Don Mac Mac Intyre. I also married a woman that was independent and never even mentioned my rate.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Apr 24 at 2017 11:10 PM

MSgt Mark Bucher — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:10:36 -0400

As I'm now retired, my rank is Mr.

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made Apr 25 at 2017 12:09 AM

SGT Keith Boettcher — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 00:09:32 -0400

Good evening Sir
I don't understand this issue either.
I have issues in the civilian community when someone brings up their military rank in meeting when it has nothing to do with what we are trying to resolve.
Use to have a retired Col who use to introduce himself as: I'm retired Col ___ JP of Put 4, Volk Fire Chief of ___, and mayor of ___.
I have been approached by an active duty 1SG who once told me to that I was a nobody and I need to stay in my lane because, he was AD. I just looked at him and laughed. I knew his Commander who I told what happened and he said that's okay he was walking on thin ice to early retirement.
I just don't understand or know why.
Guess it is the new generation of arrogance and ignorance.
I also dislike when dependence wear the rank of their spouse.
They seem to forget their place. That is a privilege and not a given. Then again it is the service member for not correcting their dependent.
Military has really gotten away from the old military we both are use too.
Sorry that happened to your wife.

Response by Sgt Albert Castro made Apr 25 at 2017 12:19 AM

Sgt Albert Castro — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 00:19:37 -0400

I was taught by a Korean war veteran, Golden Glove boxer and former Marine who went on to become a carrier Federal law enforcement Special Agent that respect was very important in life. I call him Pops. I have always tried to respect every one I deal with until they prove me otherwise. We've all heard the horror stories about military wives. Interservice rivalry? Envy? who knows. I think one of the big societal problems now days is the lack of respect people have for each other anymore. The good ones still show respect regardless. Rise above it and move on. Being petty solves nothing.

Response by GySgt Tim DiMarzio made Apr 25 at 2017 8:11 AM

GySgt Tim DiMarzio — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:11:18 -0400

It's not right and it's ignorance of you ask me. You should experience how veterans who are contractors are treated. The active duty people pretty much treat you as if it doesn't matter at all that you once wore a uniform. Again, I say it's ignorance and these people better remember they too will be done wearing a uniform someday. "You reap what you soe."

Response by SFC Danny Stewart made Apr 25 at 2017 12:48 PM

SFC Danny Stewart — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:48:45 -0400

Pourly? Really?

Response by SSG Howard Dennard made Apr 28 at 2017 7:03 AM

SSG Howard Dennard — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:03:34 -0400

Why are ex- POTUS addresswd as Mr. President, or ex-senator as Senator so and so. ? It is a sign of respect. True there are some who violate that respect, especially those that are only associated with the position (rank) holder.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 11:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:20:31 -0400

Sorry to hear. Thanks for your service Brother.

Response by CSM Curt Tipton made Apr 28 at 2017 11:34 AM

CSM Curt Tipton — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:34:52 -0400

While at the Presidio of Monterey in the gym locker room changing after PT, a 2LT loudly demanded, "Where is the PX?" Another person who was changing clothes replied, "It's over there next to the Post Office." The 2LT said, "Don't you mean it's over there, Sir!" The Navy Lt. Commander replied as he put on his shirt with his rank showing, "No, I mean it's over there, A**hole!" A shavetail LT could probably be excused for letting his rank go to his head but higher ranking individuals and, especially, spouses, need to exercise some restraint.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 3:23 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:23:29 -0400

It sounds to me like instead of a stereotyping issue, that lady needs a shrink. I wouldn't pay attention and be thankful of organically keeping that nut job away. Life is too short...

Response by GySgt Richard Morrison made Apr 29 at 2017 1:16 AM

GySgt Richard Morrison — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 01:16:29 -0400

The wives of military members do not wear the rank of their husbands no matter what branch of service. They are referred to as Mrs so and so, not Mrs. Maj so and so. So Ladies, grow up and get over it. Semper Fi. GySgt USMC (Retd) '65-'85.

Response by PO1 Rexford Dundon made Apr 30 at 2017 10:39 PM

PO1 Rexford Dundon — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 22:39:16 -0400

Well, When I was a gate guard at NAS Whidbey Island (a few months after 11 September 2001, this car pulled up, no window sticker on it and a little old lady driving, with her husband (a little old man) in the passenger seat. She already had her husbands ID out (not sure why she didn't have hers, maybe it was expired) but it was a US Coast Guard retired ID, and the rank on it was ADM. It took me a few seconds to realize that the gentleman in the car was a retired 4 star Coast Guard Admiral, and they just wanted to go to the NEX on the Seaplane Base. Talk about "pucker factor" but they were both very nice. (yes I did let the gate guard at the NEX side of the base know they were on their way, and what they were driving)

Response by SFC Alan Tompkins made May 2 at 2017 4:45 PM

SFC Alan Tompkins — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:45:03 -0400

One specific example of this was my Squadron was having a Family Readiness Group (FRG) meeting. The room was unlocked and the spouses came in. They were asked to take seats starting in the front and moving to the back. Right away they tried to line up according to their husband's rank. They were actually quite offended when the CSM told them to sit down because they have no rank.

Many people identify strongly with the rank they received and it is an important symbol for them in the military subculture. It gives them everything they are in status. What they don't consider is that the individual may be worthy of other places in the rank structure. Many of the enlisted do not have the support structure or means to attend college right out of high school. That does not mean they are not intelligent, cannot complete college or are unworthy in some other way. I am a retired SFC. I am two semesters away from completing a Bachelors Degree in Business administration. I would have liked to do this a long time ago. I would have preferred to receive a commission as a young man. The circumstances of service didn't allow it. I am grateful for the GI Bill. I am also not the same private that signed up for the delayed entry program in the summer of 1986.

Response by SGT Stanley Bass made May 3 at 2017 9:42 AM

SGT Stanley Bass — Wed, 03 May 2017 09:42:12 -0400

I have a spin on that. When I was stationed at Ft Lewis. Long before it was Lewis-McCord crap. (personal opinion). We had stickers on our vehicles to get on the base. My X wife got saluted one time, and from that point on. Even though I was enlisted. She always wanted to be saluted. She "wanted" that "status". I feel my X was a superficial type person who wanted a status she would never get with that attitude she had. Onto the point. If that MAJ is no longer active, his spouse, might have gotten used to that "status" and is in fear of losing it. People crave and want that status. It defines them. I have been to a lot of VFW and VVA meetings since retiring. I have yet to run into anybody that has acted like that. Has that Major not been out for long? Maybe the spouse is simply not sure how the transition normally works, normally, after your military service is over

Response by SPC Joseph Montgomery made May 4 at 2017 3:37 PM

SPC Joseph Montgomery — Thu, 04 May 2017 15:37:51 -0400

The rank card is played because for some reason spouses think that they're entitled to spout it out whenever they feel it's warranted. My wife has had the same issue not only with retired but also spouses of active duty personnel. It's all part of the entitlement mentality. My wife's response is pretty classic. Not only was I active duty but I was also a beat and so was she. My wife tells them 1. She has more time in a latrine than they have being a military spouse and 2. The rank of their husband doesn't transfer to them. When they go through all the training and being deployed etc then they can say they have the rank. Other than that they are just like any other spouse.....a dependent which has no special rights or privileges associated with it. I, myself, have dressed down some of these spouses in front of their miliary sponsors and even locked horns with them over it. My usual line is "Show me in military regulation where your spouse has special rights allowing her/him to wear your rank and Lord over other they deem inferrior"! As a last resort, I have contacted the company or battalion chief about the service member not schooling their spouse about their place in the military command structure. Being they are not part of it.
Stupid is stupid and sometime it can be quietly fixed. Other times your spouse has to put these self important funnies in their place by fronting them off in public and not backing up from people who ignorantly believe they are somehow special because of the rank of the spouse.

Response by LTC Jim Chapman made May 9 at 2017 12:57 PM

LTC Jim Chapman — Tue, 09 May 2017 12:57:02 -0400

People that treat others poorly will find any excuse to do so. Rank is earned by the wearer/Soldier/Sailor/Marine, not by the spouse (unless they are also military). Everyone should be treated with respect until proving they don't deserve it!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 4:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 May 2017 16:45:40 -0400

There was a RP member (SFC) who sarcastically opined that he didn't know SSGs were experts on whatever the topic was as if my rank 10 years ago on active duty is indicative of my knowledge. Those are the types of leaders that don't get to know their troops and instead prejudge them based on rank.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 6:32 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 May 2017 18:32:14 -0400

COL. as a retired U S Army First Sergeant I can tell you that these are the few idiots that don't have a life! They suffer from Egotism: the anesthetic that kills the pain of stupidity! 99% of our great warriors appreciate all their brothers and sisters that served our nation, including their spouses! When I meet a "snooty" spouse or veteran that thinks they are above the rest of us! I laugh to myself and move on! Thanks for your service! All the best! Top

Response by COL John Hudson made May 12 at 2017 11:32 AM

COL John Hudson — Fri, 12 May 2017 11:32:09 -0400

Mike, sorry to hear that happened to your wife. Disgusting. My read on the "I'm still a (fill in the blank)" attitude is due to blatant insecurity, period. Those are the types that place stickers on their autos, strut around as if still in the service while attempting to dominate every conversation with the ubiquitous and never-ending, "There I was..." nonsense. Such personalities simply can't get over the fact their lives have changed and the world has moved on without them (I've met such types while working in the civilian world still demanding that others address them by their retired rank!!!). While still in the service, I took off my ribbon rack and stuck it in a drawer somewhere. It was built up due to boots-on-the-ground participation in three wars and made me look like a statue displaying a battery-operated placard! I seldom tell anyone of my service unless directly asked about it, then downplay my roles and change the subject. I'm retired and no longer in the military...period. My name today is "John." I'm a person; not a rank or number. I am NOT in the military anymore and NOT to be addressed as if I was. I have a loving wife and family and gorgeous grandchildren to dote upon. I have no need or desire to gloat over old stories or wear yesterday's Emperor's Clothing to impress anyone. That's as it should be and there are many out there reading this who should pay attention and see if my observations apply to them.

Response by MSgt Leilani Mariotti made May 12 at 2017 4:57 PM

MSgt Leilani Mariotti — Fri, 12 May 2017 16:57:24 -0400

It is a wonder that the message Col Burroughs did not proof it before posting. He should have used 'poorly' not pourly as someone pours some liquid.

Response by MSgt Leilani Mariotti made May 12 at 2017 4:59 PM

MSgt Leilani Mariotti — Fri, 12 May 2017 16:59:33 -0400

Col Burroughs should have proofed what he wrote before posting. He should have wrote 'poorly' as in ill treatment, not pourly as someone pouring a liquid.

Response by SFC James Nallin made May 13 at 2017 11:28 AM

SFC James Nallin — Sat, 13 May 2017 11:28:02 -0400

I have seen WIFE'S were there Husband Rank more then he did ...

Response by SP5 Rod Bernsen made May 13 at 2017 11:47 AM

SP5 Rod Bernsen — Sat, 13 May 2017 11:47:16 -0400

I was a SP5 E-5 when I left the Army in 1969. I have to admit taking a certain glee watching my friend and neighbor rake pine needles; pointing out when he missed some: He is a retired USAF Retired Lieutenant General. Another pal, shooting buddy and cheese burger lover is a retired
Navy 0-9. My insight: It is not the rank that is the measure on a man or woman, rather it is the man or woman.

Response by TSgt Robert Allen made May 13 at 2017 4:08 PM

TSgt Robert Allen — Sat, 13 May 2017 16:08:10 -0400

Especially when you get a demotion because you did not heal fast enough to pass PT and then get to retire as a SSgt even though you were a TSgt for three years prior. Not that I am angry (yes I am).

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made May 14 at 2017 7:57 PM

Sgt Heriberto Salinas — Sun, 14 May 2017 19:57:20 -0400

You forgot arrogance, immaturity, and condescention.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2017 8:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 May 2017 20:09:14 -0400

In my observation the military community are not the brightest of the %1 rather those who couldn't find a career elsewhere. Once we observe the Universities that many officers attend non are on Americas top 100 Best Univetsities. Second: majority of our troops come from the "south" & "midwest" which has the poorest high school education and the Universities do not teach those graduate to question and learn deeper but to be happy where you are. This is a high probability only two Universities from the south & midwest made the list Rice U. & Vanderbuilt which majority of Graduates do not come into the service. I will say you have different levels of dumb.. level 1 NCO's no education ( terrible leaders, some great hearts )2. Nco's with education, they think they know everything but 80% wrong. 3. Officers who went to College in the south or midwest. These leaders are most likely the reason our military is crumbling and struggle to recruite. 4. Officers who went to College on the West Coast or North East Coast. Usually you'll find them in the Navy, Airforce but if we are luckly to recieve one of these officers they usually do not lead troops. But work in closed quarters away from everyone. "Can you blame them" .... 5 The point system is terrible each MOS has different points. The Army uses this scale by needs of NCO's in each MOS. This does not by any means proves these individuals are qualified and should lead troops: this is by far one of the reasons we have the whole, clicks' and popular groups in the military. Those who lack socially make up groups to fill the void of everything they are not. This also falls in with officers and all wives.

Response by 1SG Richard DeBilzan made May 14 at 2017 11:32 PM

1SG Richard DeBilzan — Sun, 14 May 2017 23:32:52 -0400

Wives see the respect given to their husbands. Husbands need to have a discussion with their wives explaining the rank structure and how other wives may extend that courtesy. It should also be explained that assuming that privilege with other wives will only embarrass you and me. Now, it is also important to explain fraternization and if you should become friends with an Officer's spouse or an Enlisted spouse and you're the Officer's wife than no matter how good of friends they may become, the Officer and Enlisted member can not ever socialize outside of unit organized events where respect must be given. It's hard, especially if children become friends, but the right thing must be done. Explain the importance, because nothing good comes from fraternization.

Response by SGT Perry Haddaway made May 17 at 2017 9:38 PM

SGT Perry Haddaway — Wed, 17 May 2017 21:38:00 -0400

The dependapotamus out ranks all. Y'all should know this by now. :)

Response by SPC Michael Rardin made May 18 at 2017 6:00 PM

SPC Michael Rardin — Thu, 18 May 2017 18:00:35 -0400

I have not experienced that in my dealings with them. It's just their spouses that act like that. I have friends that are CSMs and Cols and everything in between. We are all from combat backgrounds, so I'm not sure if it's different for other MOSs. I was only an e4 when I got retired from the army due to war injuries. My whole neighborhood it either SF, SOAR, infantry, or Cav Scouts. I was a cav scout at one time and I was infantry at one time. I just haven't experienced that. I'm sorry you are. I hope things get better for you sir

Response by SGT Randall Smith made May 19 at 2017 10:27 AM

SGT Randall Smith — Fri, 19 May 2017 10:27:42 -0400

In 1968 , while on leave, I called a friend who was just back from Nam. He was going to Germany and I was leaving Germany and going to Nam so we wanted to talk. His dad answered the phone and I said, " Mr Davis, is Jerry home?". He read me the riot act. He was to be addressed as Maj. Davis since he was retired. Ask my dad who was a retired Maj. why this was so important since he never used his rank. He said the military was the highlight of their lives and now they were just regular people. Their ego's would not accept this.

Response by LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. made May 19 at 2017 1:43 PM

LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. — Fri, 19 May 2017 13:43:39 -0400

Colonel, I, as a Marine no longer on active duty must apologize for the Majors wife. Maybe his billet is top heavy and his career path is in a circling pattern (going down the drain)! He could be a Mustang and he is at "Terminal"Rank. Who knows, like they say, "Haters gonna Hate!" Anyway don't let one Ass Clown get you down!!! Semipermanent Fi

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made May 19 at 2017 8:47 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Fri, 19 May 2017 20:47:26 -0400

Your question should be why is this happening, period!
To me it sounds like that woman is & probably always was a snob. I never got how someone can dislike you because ONLY because you know someone else.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made May 19 at 2017 8:49 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Fri, 19 May 2017 20:49:44 -0400

I do it as a show of respect. Nothing more. Besides, sometimes it's easier than pronouncing a person's surname.

Response by SGT Joseph Meyer made May 20 at 2017 9:58 PM

SGT Joseph Meyer — Sat, 20 May 2017 21:58:32 -0400

Thank you for that COL Burroughs. I earned the rank of Sgt. in the Army but that was 32 years ago. I am comfortable with that accomplishment and happy to honor former service members by addressing them by their former rank, but have seen first hand that rank structure stereotype continued years later on the job even after matriculating from college and completing grad school. With more education and life experience than many field grade officers it is discouraging that there are folks out there that still undervalue someone's potential contributions based on an attained rank from years past. A perfect example of why we must not ass u me to know someone's capabilities or overlook their potential based on only a fraction of their background, education and training.

Response by SSG Joseph McCarry made May 21 at 2017 7:33 AM

SSG Joseph McCarry — Sun, 21 May 2017 07:33:29 -0400

The "Rank Card" was inbred to us even as civilians before we entred the military by our parents. Basically it was taught to us to respect not only our elders but also those in a position of authority. A great example is the relationship between an owner of a factory, the manger and the workers in the factory. The owner (Company Commander), the manger, (Platoon Leaders), the workers in the factory, (the platoon sergeants, squad leaders and squad members). The command structure is everywhere. Some people react differently to it than others. Some people resent it, others respect it and still others could give a crap. I myself respect it especially after being in the service for twenty years. It is extremely difficult for me to call a former SGM by his/her first name or a former colonel. I respect what you accomplished, I do not begrudge it. However, in the same aspect there are people out there that "WEAR" their rank/position all the time. Unfortunately, so do their spouses. There is no good way to deal with these people except to just ignore them. No matter what you do, they will not change.

Response by SFC Jim H. made May 23 at 2017 12:19 PM

SFC Jim H. — Tue, 23 May 2017 12:19:04 -0400

I was a Huey crew chief and 3rd leg of the flight crew. Generally speaking, when it was just the 2 pilots and me, we simply called each other by our 1st names. When we had any pax on board we'd refer to each other by rank. That was in almost every unit I was in during my 20+ year career. I have no idea if that is still prevalent in today's Army. All the military mail I get refers to me as SFC. Everywhere else it's my 1st name or Mr. or 'hey you' or my personal favorite, 'Grandpa'. I think it's generally a sign of respect to address a former or retired military member by their rank although where I live I don't hear anyone call me sergeant or sergeant first class.

Response by PO3 Marty Fergel made May 24 at 2017 1:05 PM

PO3 Marty Fergel — Wed, 24 May 2017 13:05:50 -0400

I agree with Maj(join to see). I was a DC3 US Navy. I have been thankful not to have experienced this yet. I do believe that the people who pull this crap are extremely insecure with themselves.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made May 25 at 2017 2:35 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Thu, 25 May 2017 14:35:10 -0400

I recognized a friend, in a nice restaurant. I went over to introduce my wife (a college professor) ... I was well aware he was a Medical Doctor and a retired Brigadier General ... his brother blocked me (he was a retired Colonel) and rather loudly informed me to address his brother as either General or Doctor. The Retired General seemed to be embarrassed. My wife was humiliated... I stood up to the (either drunk or quite arrogant) Colonel ... and introduced my wife a Dr. Here were three men, in their mid 60's having their penises measured by a long ago retired Colonel. Yes, you earned the rank... be proud of that, but you are retired, aren't in uniform.

Response by CPO Michael Lian made May 25 at 2017 10:25 PM

CPO Michael Lian — Thu, 25 May 2017 22:25:13 -0400

Never understood that. Active, retired, veteran, E-1 or O-10. We are all brothers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2017 1:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 May 2017 13:26:23 -0400

Last time I checked, my wife is not ranked in the military. If she uses my rank for anything she is dead wrong. Plain and simple. She did not do the training required so she does not hold any rank. At home, she is the boss.

I had some one try that same thing with me on September 12 2001 "the day after". I waited 4 hours in line to get on post and this lady cut me off to get ahead of me. I yelled some choice words at her to show my anger. She said I could not talk to her that way because she was a Col. Wife. I told her I didn't care who's wife she was and gave her my name and said I will shove her husbands rank where the sun does not shine and if she has a problem she could tell her husband my name.

Is it right for me to use such harsh words, No way. She should have waited just like everyone else.

That full bird never came looking for me. And I was only a Sergeant at that time.

Response by PO2 James Young made May 27 at 2017 11:53 PM

PO2 James Young — Sat, 27 May 2017 23:53:10 -0400

I don't get it...why would a woman married to a Marine Corps Major diss the spouse of a Col because of RANK? Makes no sense to me.

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made May 29 at 2017 2:39 AM

PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster — Mon, 29 May 2017 02:39:33 -0400

As I have said, "If active duty, YOUR spouse EARNED that rank-not you, unless you have rank you earned AFTER BCT and AIT of your own." We are veterans who have served and are out. At times I have to get a point across, I will say I WAS a PFC and know about this. Right now I am happy to be Pam and not a rank and last name, but proud of what I accomplished.

My message for spouses (wives): One day, you may say "My husband is Col (or another rank) so and so...treat me as such. " You will get looked at and may get 'laughed out of the room'' cause a veteran or ACTIVE duty/Reservist may hear this and 'deliver a high quality knife hand to you" or tell you where to 'go' and it will not be pretty. Worse yet-IF still spouse is active duty or on drill IF you do this-be prepared to lose a chunk of money and have an UNhappy spouse cause you cost them Article 15; YOUR actions reflect on them and will cause them trouble with command.

Response by SGT Eric Hayden made May 30 at 2017 2:14 PM

SGT Eric Hayden — Tue, 30 May 2017 14:14:49 -0400

I left the army as a sergeant. I have several friends who are prior military. Never has rank been an issue. Three of my best friends were two colonels and one a major. We don’t talked about the military to much we have much better things in common to talk about. anyone trying to pull rank are better off left alone.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made May 30 at 2017 2:35 PM

MSG Mitch Dowler — Tue, 30 May 2017 14:35:59 -0400

Calling a person by rank is not stereotyping, it is who they are by definition. Once a service member retires they retain their military rank for like. I am assigned on orders to the Retired Reserve on orders and my earned rank is assigned on permanent orders.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made May 30 at 2017 2:38 PM

MSG Mitch Dowler — Tue, 30 May 2017 14:38:15 -0400

Calling a service member by rank is not stereotyping, it is who they are by definition. I am a retiree and maintain a permanent military status being assigned to the Retired Reserve on permanent orders. I am also assigned my earned rank on permanent orders. It did not go away when my military status changed to retired.

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made May 30 at 2017 3:06 PM

SFC Regina Boyd — Tue, 30 May 2017 15:06:32 -0400

Because people are mean. In your post and from my life experience, she is an insecure woman defined by her SPOUSE's rank. Let it go. She's the problem and it's HER problem, not you or your spouse.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2017 5:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 May 2017 17:23:08 -0400

Using it for attention is one thing and doing to respect of leadership is probably a good thing.

Response by SPC Kenneth Maxon made May 31 at 2017 7:50 AM

SPC Kenneth Maxon — Wed, 31 May 2017 07:50:33 -0400

In the civilian sector, rank means nothing. Find new friends. :) I served in an armor unit. At one point, we had a CSM who had come from special forces. He used his rank as it was meant to be used, when it was meant to be used. He would work along side the troops just like everyone else. I even worked with him once moving track blocks around getting ready for an inspection. It was his first day in the unit.

Response by CSM David Harrienger made Jun 1 at 2017 12:47 PM

CSM David Harrienger — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 12:47:09 -0400

Sir:
I will address people of higher rank as Sir or Ma'am (unless I am friends with them) even though I am retired and they are. It's not about a rank card it's about respect for what they have earned. BTW they also usually don't demand it but they get it from me anyway!

Response by SSgt Scott Walters made Jun 2 at 2017 8:31 AM

SSgt Scott Walters — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 08:31:10 -0400

I'm a member of a Marine motorcycle club. We have a good mix of ranks through Col. An even split between officers and enlisted. We have never had an issue with rank. We are all Marines. That being said, in my business I always refer to officers by rank (out of respect). However, they are just people and treated no differently than the private or civilian they are standing next to.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2017 7:48 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:48:05 -0400

I prefer to be called by my first name. I also was normally called by my first name my last six years in the military. I was in a unit where we wore civilian clothes and no one was called by their rank including our general. I never got used to calling him by his first name, just couldn't do it.

Response by SFC Tony Bennett made Jun 3 at 2017 12:19 AM

SFC Tony Bennett — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 00:19:13 -0400

That's an oldie but BADDIE! We had a military spouse here at Ft Bragg that had that mentality, without going into a lot of detail. She was eventually banned from post. I personally think it's a character flaw. Some people can get past all of that and maintain a solid rapport with anyone. Some people like to keep contact with their former ranks after they retire. I don't have an issue with that being that they did in fact earn it. But after separation it's an OPTION for people to address you by your former rank. I think it only becomes an issue when attempt to force others to acknowledge rank that they no long hold

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Jun 3 at 2017 8:13 AM

COL Rich McKinney — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 08:13:50 -0400

Usually no, but there are some settings Where it is appropriate. There are situations where that title (no longer a rank) has meaning. For example meeting the mayor for the first time or meeting with a prosecutor about a case.

Response by SFC Barbara Washington made Jun 3 at 2017 6:36 PM

SFC Barbara Washington — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 18:36:20 -0400

I completely agree. I work with someone who continually throws out his "Im a retired SGM" like anyone views him any differently than a contractor, which is what he is. It drives me crazy as he still expects people to jump and do whatever he wants as he once was a SGM!!

Response by LTC Sonya Friday made Jun 3 at 2017 9:56 PM

LTC Sonya Friday — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 21:56:05 -0400

Consider the source. At the end of the day we are all people. It has never set well with me that you have spouses who wear their spouses rank as if they did the time. If nothing else your wife knows that this particular women is INSIGNIFICANT in her life. Tell her to keep it moving. We are all GROWN, no one has time for games like this. Leave her where she found her.

Response by SFC Garry Kolberg made Jun 5 at 2017 11:57 AM

SFC Garry Kolberg — Mon, 05 Jun 2017 11:57:23 -0400

It is good to know that not all spouses (male or female) do not feel it is important to use their spouses rank to gain privilege over others.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Jun 8 at 2017 3:07 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:07:31 -0400

When I was a young lad and ships were chiseled out of limestone blocks with bits of deer antler, I remember some officers wives trying to ride their husbands rank, usually with other wives and occasionally with junior enlisted folks. I also recall that when the officer in question learned of this behavior he/she generally corrected his dependents misuse of his title. For my own part, I work at the auto hobby shop a couple of days every week, with young sailors and I am gratified that they usually refer to me as Senior as a matter of respect and comradery. I see no problem with a retiree referring to himself by his rank, he/she earned it and should be able to celebrate it, at the same time neither I nor any other retiree I know would attempt to actually exploit that rank, that would be unethical at best...

Response by CW3 Michael Hess made Jun 8 at 2017 3:37 PM

CW3 Michael Hess — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:37:41 -0400

It seems to be human nature for some people, female and male. My dad's bigger/ My mother is smarter/ My husband out ranks your's, and so on. My wife was friends with privates wife's to colonels wifes, I have been friends with privates to 4 stars. Since I retired, we have seen what you describe, and our reaction has been "what a snob, your loss".

Response by SSG Jeff Beltran made Jun 8 at 2017 9:24 PM

SSG Jeff Beltran — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 21:24:14 -0400

No one in the real world really cares, unless you put it out there that you are a retiree or want to make it known. Out of respect when that retiree is at a function, then yes calling them at their rank is fine.

Response by GySgt Richard Morrison made Jun 15 at 2017 1:11 PM

GySgt Richard Morrison — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:11:21 -0400

Because it is something that they have earned. And a sign of Respect. Semper Fi. GySgt USMC (Ret) '65-'85.

Response by SGT Tony Long made Jun 18 at 2017 8:36 AM

SGT Tony Long — Sun, 18 Jun 2017 08:36:41 -0400

I fill pride in the memory of my rank. I do not lack self esteem but l am just a proud American.

Response by SGT Linda Burgess made Jun 19 at 2017 6:34 PM

SGT Linda Burgess — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:34:33 -0400

Small minds, low self esteem and the only time they felt important was wearing the rank of their spouse.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2017 7:22 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 19:22:13 -0400

On one hand, it does seem a bit silly, as when we get out/retire/whatever, we become civilians. On another, I still respect my fellow former service members, particularly those who stuck it out to retirement (not to take anything from other veterans).

Response by MSgt Jim Cheek made Jun 20 at 2017 6:12 PM

MSgt Jim Cheek — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:12:39 -0400

Had an interesting thing happen where I worked. A large portion of employees were prior military. A retired AF MSgt was appointed Lead of a group. One day he past a project to a retired Navy Commander. The Commander after reviewing the project took it to the MSgt's and dropped it on his desk saying, "this looks like enlisted work" and walked off. After getting his composure the MSgt took it back to the Commander with the explanation " you are right, and in this job you are the enlisted and I am the officer". Those two never got along.

Response by 2d Lt Darryl Hadfield made Jun 20 at 2017 6:36 PM

2d Lt Darryl Hadfield — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:36:24 -0400

Stupidity?

I retired as a 2Lt - but was sitting in a Captain's desk, doing the job of a major, when I finally took off the uniform.

My belief is that people push the rank because it lets us categorize people, which tends to be a military trait - everything in it's place, and a place for everything. I've always been an exception, and thankfully for me, that's tended to mean I relate to other people as PEOPLE, rather than a rank.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jun 21 at 2017 6:51 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:51:17 -0400

Once we leave we attain the rank of PFC. Everything else is a difference in retirement pay. Reminds me of people who become board members and turning into holy terrors because they do not have anything else to occupy them. Time to find new friends.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jun 22 at 2017 3:46 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:46:05 -0400

His face says it all....

Response by Maj Elfie Biankini made Jun 27 at 2017 11:45 AM

Maj Elfie Biankini — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 11:45:47 -0400

I agree

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2017 11:58 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 11:58:31 -0400

That mind set does not exist out in rural Ohio where we live. While I often hear, "Thank you for your service", most of the people in our community have little idea of what it takes to retired from one of the services. Yes, there are several veterans, but as we socialize our topics are more likely to involve the price of beans, corn, and the tornadic weather.

Response by PO3 Sandra Gomke made Jun 27 at 2017 1:38 PM

PO3 Sandra Gomke — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:38:19 -0400

Women can be such ninnies!! There is absolutely NO reason to treat a military spouse according to the rank of their serviceman. I have been both a sailor and a military spouse and I NEVER treated any spouse by rank. All I can say is, my apologies to your lovely wife and it's a good thing I wasn't there.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 28 at 2017 10:33 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 10:33:10 -0400

When we were first married my wife had no inkling of military protocols...and I liked that. Immediately after we were married we went to her first duty station and were at the club and she smoked at that time. The base commander came over to her and told her those cigarettes would kill her eventually and she told him they would kill her but that drink in his hand would kill him or someone else when he decided to drive home. He said do you know who I am, I am the Wing commander and she said big whoop, I am Lt Shuttleworths wife (I almost passed out from watching my career dissipation light come on full beam.) He respected her from that day forward and whenever he wanted the skinny on what was on spouses minds he would call her directly. She never wore my rank or used it...except with me and she told me no matter how much I climb in rank, she would outrank me by at least one rank!!! LOL. She went when they had a spouses club and there were seating arrangements by rank...she never went back. She told me that rank was my thing and it didn't apply to her or anyone else. Even when I was a group deputy commander/commander she refused to park at the reserved spot at the BX/Comm etc because she understands those spots are reserved for the members because of their busy schedules and response times to various events on the installation. I have no place for spouses wearing their significant others rank and using it and I don't have time for the members letting it play out that way. Just not right.

Response by SFC William Stephens made Jun 28 at 2017 11:38 AM

SFC William Stephens — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 11:38:57 -0400

I think if you served in the military you deserve the RESPECT but some people take to the limit. If some who is retired and request that I address them by rank to talk to them. They can talk to someone else because I did my time as well. Their time to shine is over.

Response by LTC Dean Russell made Jun 29 at 2017 11:26 AM

LTC Dean Russell — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 11:26:51 -0400

My recommendation to your wife is that officer's wife is not worth being friends with. You are totally correct. We all served for the common good and it does not matter what your rank was. My wife and I have never played the rank card active or retired. We have not run into anyone like that and I have been retired since 1995. If I did, I do not have enough time in the day to put up with someone who cannot treat people kindly.

Response by SGT David Midgley made Jun 30 at 2017 9:00 AM

SGT David Midgley — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:00:26 -0400

I would consider the Major's wife without any substance, nor character. I wasn't married while serving, so it wasn't an issue then, and it isn't an issue now for use. But we don't live in a community of retired military.
Bottom line, if that is all the Major's wife has to show the world, feel sorry for her. For her life is truly empty.

Response by TSgt Alejandro Cuervo made Jun 30 at 2017 9:59 AM

TSgt Alejandro Cuervo — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:59:33 -0400

This was very good reading from fellow members and reminded me of a situation that happen at a Naval base. I was an aircrewman and remember flying into Naval Station Guantanamo Bay and learning that the Commanding Officer had all the spouses at the base Theater to remind them, that their spouses had earned their ranks and that no one in the Theater besides himself had earned or tested for military rank. They were having problems with individuals thinking that their spouses rank carried over to them and it was turning into a real issue. While things like this do rear it's head time and time again, it's up to those in command to stop it and get it under control and remind those in the audience that we do have a volunteer force and they can always sign up and earn their own rank.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jul 2 at 2017 6:25 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 06:25:34 -0400

For anyone to attempt to use a spouses rank to determine their own status whether retired or on active duty is total bull. the spouse holds the rank, not them, end of story. I remember a story(don't know how true it is) that circulated when Gen. Gray was CMC. When he was CG of 2nd Mar Div. he happened to observe a women who claimed her husband was a Maj, trying to bully her way to the front of the check cashing line at the PX using her husbands rank as her right to be in front. Allegedly he put her to the rear of the line and explained that she held no rank, her husband did. He later explained that her husband as well. Whether the story was true or not that is the at it is.

Response by PFC Lisa McDonald made Jul 2 at 2017 2:47 PM

PFC Lisa McDonald — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 14:47:48 -0400

Many Veterans through time become much more educated and experienced then their rank at discharge indicates.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Jul 2 at 2017 6:20 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 18:20:31 -0400

I am retired and it's a respect thing to most. I volunteer at the local VA clinic and a lot of the employees use to work with me. I tell them my name is Cliff/Clifford but they tell me your Top or 1SG I am retired. They tell me we never call Top by his first name and I just laugh. Met a lot of people that let rank go to their head lol

Response by CPL Todd Albert made Jul 4 at 2017 3:10 PM

CPL Todd Albert — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:10:22 -0400

Once you are out of the service there is only one rank "VETERAN". Respect all who have served the same regardless of what rank was held while on active duty.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2017 3:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:22:27 -0400

If they were high up they do

Response by Capt Al Parker made Jul 6 at 2017 2:17 PM

Capt Al Parker — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 14:17:47 -0400

I don't know about others but when I retired I changed my first name from Sir to Al.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 7:16 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:16:41 -0400

I don't know sir, but I did notice you are missing Warrant Officer ranks on that picture you posted.. Despite some rumors, we do, in fact, exist... :)

Response by SP5 Robert Rauch made Jul 7 at 2017 10:04 AM

SP5 Robert Rauch — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 10:04:38 -0400

Well first of all the wife of the Major needs to check herself! She wasn't in the military her husband was! She has no right to play a rank card what so ever! She never served a day in her life, so I don't know where she gets off playing any card!

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 7 at 2017 10:43 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 10:43:32 -0400

First, to the details you provided. The woman harassing your wife, that has nothing to do with military service, rank or anything more than the woman is a word that rhymes with blunt. I would not be surprised to find that she is not married, IF she has a husband, he never served and not the Corps for sure. IF she has a man in her life who was a Major in any branch, she would what it means to be a Colonel?
Yes, some in, and out, of the service bring their rank with them to RP. The interesting thing to me, is there are patterns that I see in the ways people of certain ranks will interact with others...what is actually up with so many of our Majors? Sorry, I digressed, and I have my own opinions to that question.
To the posted question: Why do veterans and active duty members still stereotype by rank after someone has retired or left the service? Because the service members have earned that rank and, for good and bad, the stereotypes that come with them. One thing all should be aware of on this site, as I have seen people...see comments about Majors above...who try to shut people down someone because of rank, even ignoring that the person military rank was only part of the picture? A former Specialist or Sergeants now with their PhD or advanced degree, but the soldier still think they have to be right because they would out rank them if they had served at the same time?
We have earned the good and the bad but we cannot allow the stereotype to blind us either.

Response by Sgt William Straub Jr. made Jul 7 at 2017 1:50 PM

Sgt William Straub Jr. — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:50:10 -0400

As a veteran USAF Security Police Sgt, I found many dependents tried to wear their parents/ spouse's rank. It was really annoying when it came to dep's of Majors on up. Plus Senior NCO's dependents often tried to challenge us by saying "my father is Senior Master Sgt, so and so or my father is Col This. I was taught OJT that what ever the rank you were dealing with, we were one rank higher in performing our duties. Worked most of the time.

Response by SGT Andrew Van Donselaar made Jul 9 at 2017 4:37 PM

SGT Andrew Van Donselaar — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 16:37:16 -0400

When I was in Afghanistan My GF (PO3 when she got out) i was a SGT. She was treated by all the Officers wives like a piece of white trash, when she would go to the ombudsman meetings. Then the Col. found out that she was a Combat Vet and a spouse for a several deployments. He asked her to give a speech to the wives of us that were deployed. She gave the speech and then the officer wives started treating her different. NOW my question is this, "When did the officers wives earn earn any rank whats so ever?" Just because their husband has rank they think so do they. When I was a freshly froked PO2 I had a Admires wife try to tell me to do something. I laughed at her and walked away when she told me he husband was admire so and so. I told her "You are nobody to me," and "You can't bark orders to me. You are not an officer, you are his wife." I then walked away. So again I ask, "When do these woman go to OSC or one of the Military Academies and earn their rank, Oh that's right they don't so they have no rank." I got so tired of it. It always seems to get worse the higher the rank of the Officer was. I've even seen some Master Chief / Sargent Major Wives do the same thing.

Response by SPC Robert Longsden made Jul 10 at 2017 3:56 AM

SPC Robert Longsden — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 03:56:44 -0400

I say it is out of pure respect.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jul 10 at 2017 1:41 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:41:03 -0400

Sp4 Since I've been out not over 50 years I can see this issue, I won't call it a problem. When we knew each other on active duty both regulations and protocol demanded wee address a person by rank. That is the context we know each other. If you look around you will find at Hight School Reunions where a retired teacher show up, its always Miss., Mrs. or MR. when a former student addresses the. Years ago when I had a company I would on occasion have problems with retired officers since as an employee in a construction/production setting the new hire'e is clearly a subordinate in the context of the situation, It was a problem I had a had time getting over the military rank, on the other hand so did the former military officer. I had to discharge a retired 06, this guy couldn't get over the fact that he was only a junior employee and out on the job he had to take directions and work assignments for a twenty something, that had worked for me for years. The parting of way on one retired officer came when he started talking to customers, which was a no no for for the hammer swingers. The guy used his retire military pitch on a customer and definitely left the impression he was the on site project manager. The only managing he did was he managed to leave my office with a final pay check and no job. After that incident, in truth I avoided hiring any former military. Former 07's, 08's and 09's are just as bad as officers.

Response by SSG Norbert Johnson made Jul 10 at 2017 3:04 PM

SSG Norbert Johnson — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 15:04:34 -0400

I would like to be educated on the "RANK CARD" concept. I address persons as they wish to be addressed. If Active or Reserve, I respectfully address them according to their rank. I do not do so out of a lack of self identity to either myself or the individual, but out of respect. That is the problem today with both Civilian and Military (new generation). There is a waning status of Respect. I am not an Officer, even though I was offered such due to my Civilian Acquired Skills and Education. I served from 1970 - 1993 and left as an NCO (never demoted). I have worked with Officers and educated a few as well and earned my accolades of status in both civilian and military environments. So again, I address Military Personnel including the Retired as well as Veterans with respect for the Rank/s attained both in Civilian or Military. It is all about Respect PEOPLE! You wouldn't go to the Pope and Call him DUDE would you? Or the Queen of England and call her 'Liz...?

That Major's Wife is the Wife of a Major, and bears no station other than his "Wife." She is "Honored" with the title as the Major's Wife. Kind of like Dr. William Cosby (Ph.D), the title evaporates once there is a Discharge or rescinding of the document. In the Major's Wife's case, a Divorce rescinds her claim to [his] rank.

The proper Civilian/Veteran address of a current, retired, or former Military Service Member, should be what is most comfortable to THAT Individual, and usually if you address them by Rank, they will do an immediate correction if necessary. From that point, RESPECT their wishes and you will still be following protocol and proper etiquette.

Response by PO2 Loren Gilmore made Jul 10 at 2017 5:52 PM

PO2 Loren Gilmore — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:52:59 -0400

The first and only time I was ever at the Officers Club at NAS Oceana was with my CWO2 at his invite after coaching both of his sons for a season of T-ball. He was a noted PA and I worked with him at one of the small dispensaries in the mornings. I expected a few stern looks from some of the Officers in the room and it did make our lunch a little uncomfortable. It was amazing how they treated him though. And unfortunately the wives were no better. He has patched up sailors and Marines all his career and seen dependents at the Clinic at Oceana. He had class though and told me to never forget what I seen and that I should see this as a learning experience. He was amazing that way and yes, I had all the respect for him that a Corpsman in his command should. Thanks, Doc Gilly.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Jul 10 at 2017 9:33 PM

SGT Scott Henderson — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 21:33:23 -0400

It happens because most officers and senior enlisted that retire are pretentious as fuck. Sorry SGM, you retired; you're just Bob now.

Response by Capt Thomas M. Rutherford made Jul 11 at 2017 1:36 AM

Capt Thomas M. Rutherford — Tue, 11 Jul 2017 01:36:08 -0400

This happened to my wife. I was selected as Marine Drill Instructor of the Quarter at Parris Island in 1967. I was honored to stand at attention while hundreds of recruits and Marines marched in review in front of me. I was totally shocked to see retired General "Chesty" Puller as the honored VIP. He was dressed in a dark suit with a derby like cover (Marine term for hat). General Puller-as all Marines know-is the most decorated Marine in our history. My wife was seated in the hot sun next to the sheltered Officers Viewing Stand (officers country only). I asked her to take Super 8mm video of everything. When the parade was over, I couldn't find my wife. Suddenly, she stepped down from the viewing stand. She told me how a Mrs Puller had asked her to sit with her in the stand. My wife didn't know who "Chesty" Puller was. Then she proceeded to tell me how she overheard some negative comments about an enlisted Marines wife sitting alongside officer's wives. That made her very uncomfortable. Apparently, Mrs Puller did not hear these remarks. Had she heard them those wives would have been trashed by Mrs Puller. Marines know "Chesty" Puller would have had their husbands stand at attention while he dressed them down. General Puller was always good to enlisted Marines. It's such a shame when some officers wives think they are above anyone of lesser rank. The majority of officers wives aren't like that. They quickly learn that being a good leader means taking care of the troops. These wives set an outstanding example for all to follow. (Footnote: As we were riding home I asked my wife, "did you get some good photos?" Did you get good photos of General Puller?" She said, "I don't know. Who is General Puller?" I couldn't wait to have the film developed to see General Puller. To think I would actually have movies of every Marine's hero. Well I still have that 50 year old film. It jerks madly up and down. It's the only time the Argos Movie Camera malfunctioned. Maybe someday modern technology can smooth it out. In 1968, I would serve in an adjacent Marine infantry company alongside Lt Lewis Puller. It was so sad when word reached us that he had been totally mangled after stepping on a mine (the most mined and boobytrapped in history). He would go on to be very successful. However, he never got over alcohol and drugs. He wrote the Pulitzer Prize winning book Fortunate Son. Later, Lewis shot himself dead)

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2017 6:55 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:55:33 -0400

Just an observation on the original post and a point that is more relevant that we tend to discuss. The person complaining about rank, actually wears none. Instead, she is married to a Major.

When I transitioned from NCO to Officer, I found and provided to my wife, a copy of 'Army Officer's Wife' book. The book has been in existence for many years (and has been modified to Army Officer's Spouse), providing spouses with insights into protocol, how the military operates, who to contact for family concerns, etc. One point that is clearly discussed is that the spouse is an important member of the military family, providing necessary support to their trooper but that they have no official standing. More specifically, they don't wear the rank or status of their trooper spouse.

To be clear, the distaff has influence over the success and failure of the trooper and the organization. In the past, being a member of the Officer Wife's Club or Family Support Group was expected and these were often lead by the Commander's and Senior NCO's Spouse. Unfortunately, this created a perception that the status of the trooper was conferred on the spouse as well. If we have not corrected this false perception, then we have created a situation where a spouse will continue to act improperly. Calling it out is tough but necessary.

Spouses are all equal and once the trooper retires, everyone is equal. People, civilian as well as current and former military, continue to call me Colonel. I always thank them for their respect and ask to be called 'Scott.' But, there are some, who never completely transition and believe rank matters in post retirement. What matters is how we treat one another and sometimes, what we call one another.

Allons!

Response by TSgt James Carson made Jul 16 at 2017 6:23 PM

TSgt James Carson — Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:23:03 -0400

Habit and pride that we served when most didn't. It's our right of passage to do so. We earned it and should not be ashamed of it.

Response by SFC Dr. Fred Lockard made Jul 16 at 2017 9:39 PM

SFC Dr. Fred Lockard — Sun, 16 Jul 2017 21:39:51 -0400

I know I try hard to make sure I do not do that. I worked hard and got a PhD after I retired and I now consider myself a doctor first and a retired NCO second. Also I have a unique perspective on this because my wife is still an AD Colonel. I thus have to meet a lot of very high ranking officers as both a retired NCO and as a doctor. I always introduce myself as Dr. Lockard, Army - retired. I keep rank out as much as I can. I think this is especially important in social situations. I did meet a retired Marine LTC years ago who insisted I call him colonel! I retorted by insisting he call me doctor. We never talked again after that day. Oh well.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 6:32 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:32:42 -0400

For one thing, it's totally ridiculous on it's face. The "wives" HAVE no rank! Unless they are service members themselves.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jul 19 at 2017 10:13 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:13:10 -0400

A spouse has no rank. Regardless of whether the spouse with the rank is active duty or retired. End of story.
I will usually automatically address an individual by how they ae introduced to me until I get to know them. HOWEVER, if someone who is retired insists on being addressed by their former active duty rank I will generally address them as Mr. or Mrs. That goes for MD's, or Phd's as well. That is just my BS threshold being breached.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 19 at 2017 1:29 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 13:29:19 -0400

ughhh!! Took my dog ( a Lab Retriever) to a lake on the Air Force Academy, I looked around for fisherman and there was no one fishing or around this lake. so I let my dog swim. AN older gentleman shows up with a fishing pole, so I call my dog out of the water and wait to see where he was going to drop his line, so he drops his line on one end of the lake, I take my Dog and go to the opposite side of the lake, now the lake is small, but not so small that 400-500 meters is going to effect the fish at his end, when my dog is only 30 meters at most into the lake. This Gentleman actually reeled his line in, and started yelling at me to get "My F'in Mutt" away from the lake, and then proceeded to walk at a brisk pace to me. screaming obscenities the whole time. He then confronts me that he is a retired Col. and that I should be obeying him, good order and discipline, etc etc etc. I held my hand up and told him "stop, key words are 'I am a retired" - you are no longer active and are just a civilian, take your foul mouthed ass back to your chair and fish, and leave me in peace" - the look on his face was priceless.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Jul 19 at 2017 6:48 PM

CDR Kenneth Kaiser — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:48:47 -0400

I have been out so long and completed two careers, that I don't even consider my rank. It makes a difference when you are active for a variety of reasons, but once you retire then it is different. Regarding the commissary story I once had the misfortune of serving on a carrier. There I found that for them wives were included as an item in your annual fitness report. I always felt that when they start to pay my wife or when she signs up they can comment on her demeanor. Until then pound sand..

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Jul 19 at 2017 9:36 PM

CDR Kenneth Kaiser — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:36:30 -0400

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Jul 19 at 2017 9:55 PM

CDR Kenneth Kaiser — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:55:07 -0400

I am not always clear on my first attempt. What I am trying to say usually with rank folks expect some sort of familiarity with tools, technology policies etc that are currently practiced. Since it has been so long since I served I am not so sure that I could meet that criteria any longer other than on general issues therefore it would not seem reasonable that I should rely on that rank other than a honorific or something along that line. In short I would prefer Ken or Mr. Kaiser

Response by Cpl Zach Wellborn made Jul 20 at 2017 5:34 AM

Cpl Zach Wellborn — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 05:34:42 -0400

It's kinda funny actually. I work at a VA Hospital and I can almost always tell what branch people were in by their attitude. Complain about food oh hey Marine, complain about weather air force, know it all Navy, oh hey dude what's up army. Rank is a funny thing as well, people who are used to their rank giving them special treatment in a place where rank no longer matters.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2017 12:18 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 12:18:33 -0400

It is absolutely insecurity and lack of self identity combined with taking the crap-end of the stick at military functions. I have obviously earned my own rank and deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan to earn my combat stripes and veteran status. However, I am also married to an active duty officer of the same rank. As a result, I go to a lot of his functions in civilian attire and NEWFLASH: We treat spouses like crap.

Example from attending an on-post block BBQ: A small group so the men and women were sitting in camp chairs mostly as couples. My husband wasn't present yet (our work schedules often mean we meet places instead of driving together), but one of the men knew me and invited me to pull up a chair. Another male SM approached, said hello to his buddy, and then went around the circle blatantly ignoring all the women, but shaking the hands of and introducing himself to the men in the circle. He said his rank and name and asked what units they were in as he went. He did not even ask the women their names. I did call him out on it since the intimate setting made it possible to do so. Ever see a military event where the men all stand on one side of the room and all the women on the other? Isn't that ridiculous?

Go ahead and read any military thread online. Every time there is a comment involving military spouses (including this one) there are many very negative comments and very few positive ones. If you use the term "Dependa" anywhere a spouse can hear you, I promise it's offensive, no matter her standing in the world, her weight, or the rank of her husband (OR HERSELF).

I make a very good living in the civilian sector and I am a good officer. Putting on civilian clothes and attending events as a "spouse" is a humbling experience. I am fortunate to work in tech, so I've always been employed and, frankly, I make more as a civilian than I do as an officer. So to go to an event with my husband and be treated as invisible, unworthy, or generally humored like a child is uncomfortable and would be unacceptable anywhere outside the military. My husband watched me struggle with this a few times and is now quick to introduce me as "also a Major in the Army" in order to prevent such treatment. Why is that necessary? Why do I have no inherent worth to these people until they realize I have rank?

Remember these are people that our SMs claim to love, that they've build a life with, and have had their identities oftentimes subsumed by the military. Ask any teacher, nurse, engineer, or even just a spouse that wanted to finish their degree.... it's VERY difficult to be that thing or to finish that schooling when the Army is telling you where to go and what to do. Throw in a couple of kids and it's nearly impossible. I even had to change careers to support my husband's desire to remain active duty. And we treat these people in the whole as invisible, stupid, uninformed, entitled, fat, lazy, breeders.

It is absolutely wrong of them to claim their spouse's rank. It is absolutely born out of a lack of personal identity and confidence. It is a reaction to being repeatedly treated with disrespect by service members. It's a cry for some kind of power and control in a world where they have NONE. It is wrong, but you have to understand the WHY instead of just beating on them some more. When the people around you only respect rank, I can understand why they'd want to claim some of that for themselves. I will not humor them, but I will not pile on and spit on them either. We need to check ourselves.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2017 8:59 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jul 2017 08:59:18 -0400

I think there are two points here. First spouses or dependents that set the negative stereotype should be ridiculed. I don't care if you are the CSMs wife, the CGs wife, or the COLs wife. If they aren't there with you, then you're just a normal person like everyone else. However in terms of titles, I disagree with the logic of "it's different in the military". There was once a time when people in general were a lot more respectful to one another. Addressing people by titles that they legitimately earned was, and still can be, respectful. A retired COL maintains her or his rank for life, same as a former government official is still referred to as "President", "Governor", "Senator" even after they have left office. And yes, someone who invested years of their life to the study of knowledge and earned a PhD, is a "Doctor" (not necessarily an MD). And while I'm on my soapbox, I'll just throw out that it doesn't hurt referring to our bosses, and elders as Mr. or Mrs. instead of "Joe" or "Mary", and even if they prefer not using the Mr./Ms., "sir" or "ma'am" still goes a long way. For they too, by nature of their position or longevity on this planet are indeed worthy of thst respect.

Response by LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD made Jul 24 at 2017 10:04 AM

LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 10:04:10 -0400

Such actions are both revealing and sad. I have met some higher ranking individuals who DEMAND to be called sir or maam because they believe they are superior. Yes, they do exist! However, what they reveal is that they believe they cannot stand on their own CHARACTER to make you want to follow their lead. There is where the sad part comes in. What kind of insecurity would cause such a demand? Having an EGO is not always bad...I have one...but I realize that my blessings come from someone much higher than myself...and I treat that with respect... I try very hard, even during adversity to help others see it too! Does that make sense?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 8:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 08:39:40 -0400

The worst 2 examples of this to me are retired service members who attempt to pull non-existent rank and spouses who try the same. Once a service member is retired, they are done. Period. The rank is an honorific at that point. To attempt to pull rank 20 years after retirement, as I've seen folks even in this forum do, is silly. And of course spouses don't have the rank at any time in any circumstance.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Jul 28 at 2017 9:30 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 09:30:57 -0400

Why?

Because some people just gotta hate.

It's not unique to the military. This is a part of human nature, and you'll see it in all walks of life. I've seen it within some Cub Scout Leadership people while our son was a Cub Scout and my wife one of the Den Leaders. I've seen it in the hospital I used to volunteer at as a young teenager. I've seen it among family members. I've seen it among neighbors. I've seen it among church memberships. Grade school, junior high school, and high school were rife with these kinds of people.

You'd THINK grown people would know better...but adults are a product of the way they were brought up and their environment, as well as their own personalities.

I personally dont' give such people much of my time and energy. Life is too short and too full of other more important things and people to waste it on dipsh*ts, dump*sses, and haters.

Response by LT MaryBeth Southwell made Jul 28 at 2017 10:33 AM

LT MaryBeth Southwell — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 10:33:38 -0400

Pulling Rank and Spouse's rank (or even worse spouse assuming the partner's rank) after retirement is ridiculous - obviously those of differing ranks may have different experiences, connections, or advice to offer fellow vets, and there is a level of respect accorded to those such as retired Generals - but there's much it wont tell you such as life experience , experience after retirement or even some military experience (like the fact that I am a mustang , for example.) Vets are Vets, and should stand together, respect and support each other and those that don't understand that just don't get it - just walk away from those individuals - they won't help you. A good thing to always remember is we can learn something from everyone we come in contact with, and sometimes what we learn is how not to do things.
With Respect to all fellow Veterans

Response by SPC John Chambers made Jul 28 at 2017 12:27 PM

SPC John Chambers — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 12:27:31 -0400

Chip that was awesome. On a serious note we are all veterans so it shouldn't matter if I retire as a 4 star general or sergeant. We served enjoy the brotherhood, (this includes women veterans).

Response by MCPO Peter Koch made Jul 30 at 2017 8:46 AM

MCPO Peter Koch — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:46:33 -0400

As a Member of the armed services, you are entitled to join the VFW or American Legion. In the meetings and events, we do not use Ranks or titles. We know each other by names although we might have Brigadier Generals or privates in the unit.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Jul 30 at 2017 8:50 AM

MSgt Mark Bucher — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:50:56 -0400

After retirement my rank is Mister. There is no rank in here unless still on active duty.

Response by CW2 Fred Baker made Jul 30 at 2017 12:38 PM

CW2 Fred Baker — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:38:36 -0400

She probably wants the Marines at the post gate to salute her as well. Sounds like the type and I have met a few. Life is too short for that BS.

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Jul 30 at 2017 2:00 PM

CPO Bill Penrod — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 14:00:11 -0400

I wasru getting meds refilled at WPAFB Kitty Hawk Phamacy and the civilian tech said "Thanks for your service Chief...." That made me feel proud of my service.

Response by PO1 Thomas Herms made Jul 30 at 2017 5:23 PM

PO1 Thomas Herms — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:23:05 -0400

Rank may be a good place to start a conversation with a veteran to help compare service experiences, but using it as a stereotype is no different than using any other prejudice to learn about someone's personality or capabilities. Rank at time of discharge or retirement means even less if their civilian career or life experiences were much more significant. There are many service oriented organizations where rank and chain of command are respected, as well as, who the individual is, and I think this is fine because it is part of the atmosphere the members enjoy. Respecting rank in the military is mandatory to maintain discipline, but to use it as a stereotype to judge an individual or their family is never appropriate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 9:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:40:37 -0400

To be honest sir I don't know why people do it..... I think they should be grateful that they were able to achieve the rank and retire.....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 10:30 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 22:30:56 -0400

When I grew up years ago the etiquette as I understood it is that your former military rank never leaves you in Anglo Saxon culture (in other words British.. and British culture still informs a lot of mainstream US culture and etiquette)
I am seperated now, yet when I meet an O-6 I used to work with, (or any O6 and above really) I will generally still call him Sir as I do a GS15.
In my current line of work I run into a lot of former or current O-6 and aboves.
An LTC (or GS14) is a bit different .. even though I separated as O-4, I have functioned in O5 billets many times in military and civilian gov't.. so I consider an O-5 more of a peer and will generally not call a retired or active O-5 Sir, except perhaps when we meet the first time and even then it depends on circumstance.
If he is my direct supervisor then it is an expression of that status and I will call him Sir.
I currently am a civilian working for an Active O-5 and O-6 and will use the honorific on both... And even though I am civ they both know me and I believe still think of me as a (ex) field grade and both treat me with respect.

On the other hand I generally offer my first name to ppl i outranked (unless they are jack a.s.es)

Response by SN Shawn Wilson made Jul 30 at 2017 11:32 PM

SN Shawn Wilson — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 23:32:14 -0400

I think it is bull-chit.

Response by Cpl Vic Eizenga made Jul 31 at 2017 1:02 PM

Cpl Vic Eizenga — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 13:02:27 -0400

I will tell you what my wife says "you are the Marine, what you did you earned NOT ME." She loves it when people thank me for my service she feels I have earned it. BUT why don't you respond I told her when I first got out it was easier to job saying I just got out of prison then to say I just got out of the Marine Corps. So for many years I said nothing. Now I don't know what to say.

Response by 1SG Donald Elmore made Jul 31 at 2017 2:05 PM

1SG Donald Elmore — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:05:15 -0400

I have never been disrespected by anyone due to my rank since I retired. When I meet or speak to someone of higher rank that I know personally I call them by name. If they are strangers and I know their rank I call them by that rank. If I do not know their rank or first name I call them sir or mam. Now to answer your question about this Major's wife not liking your wife because of your rank. While in service many wives will use their husband's rank to show they are above other wives and they will demand that they be respected. Military wives are worse than the military member in using rank and I am sure they carry that over into retirement.

Response by Claudia Trail made Aug 2 at 2017 8:10 AM

Claudia Trail — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 08:10:53 -0400

Rank like respect is earned not given. Thank you Sir for your Service and your family's support.

Response by PO1 Leo Scott made Aug 2 at 2017 2:56 PM

PO1 Leo Scott — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:56:57 -0400

My association with other vets is at the VFW. Our JR Past CDR was an E4. I was an E6. While he was CDR I deferred to him and now we are equal as in a Navy LT that sits with up

Response by SGT James Murphy made Aug 2 at 2017 5:51 PM

SGT James Murphy — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:51:35 -0400

Really, sounds like someone in need of forgiveness .

Response by CWO3 John Bails made Aug 4 at 2017 7:55 PM

CWO3 John Bails — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 19:55:31 -0400

If you earned a Ph.D. then yes you deserve to be called DR. The other petty rank pulling is silly among veterans.

Response by Mark Heick made Aug 5 at 2017 7:04 AM

Mark Heick — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 07:04:21 -0400

Col Mike Burroughs,
Thank you for your service in the military and your continued service to the veteran community. As a civilian who never served in the military, I am grateful for all current and veteran military members and the sacrifice through service they provide.

I am in the process of developing a startup company aimed at providing funding for VSO's. My reason for joining Rallypoint was to become more familiar with the military culture as well as understand the challenges faced by transitioning veterans to ensure the company is structured to accomplish it's mission.

In your original post, you included a chart that lists the different ranks of each of the military. Unfortunately after expanding the image it does not read well. Would you be able to provide a link, or repost such that it is more visible.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Aug 5 at 2017 8:54 AM

AA Joseph Moody — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 08:54:38 -0400

A sad truth for many Veterans that is also true with high school athletes is that they peek while in the service and just never move on.

Which is a shame, the service gives you tools and character traits ((well, it gives you the chance to learn them)) That can do wonders in the outside world, and many vets will sink into some job that is far below their level and just spend the next 20 years or so reliving the glory days to anyone who will listen.

Response by CPO Mark Robinson made Aug 5 at 2017 9:47 AM

CPO Mark Robinson — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 09:47:25 -0400

I have seen this a couple of times with officer wives. One was my friend's older brother's wife. I was an E-5 at the time and it was obvious that she would not talk to me as an equal. I suppose in her society I wasn't. As for the original question, I work at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard and several of the engineers are retired officers. You would never know it by the way they act. One of them is a Captain (O-6) and he is like the class clown, always coming up with something funny. Another is an O-5 and he is about the nicest guy around. It seems to me that it is more the enlisted people (specifically Chiefs (E-7-E9) who quite literally still wear their rank, an anchor on their badge lanyard or a ball cap. As for me when I drive on base every now and then I get a "good morning chief" and I'll look around to see if he was talking to someone else.

Response by PO2 Christopher Foss made Aug 5 at 2017 10:28 AM

PO2 Christopher Foss — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 10:28:02 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - I agree that the rank is not who we Are, but it is part of our self image and our achievement set. For better or worse, most people define themselves by what they have accomplished, and rank is irrevocably tied up to our service.

That said, I find that most people release their association in proportion to the time out of service. Yes, somewhere in my mind, I will always be Petty Officer Foss because that was a large portion of my life, but that is no longer the way I define myself. Next year will be 20 years OUT and I have done a lot of things that define me separately from my service.

Response by SFC Dave Beran made Aug 5 at 2017 11:37 AM

SFC Dave Beran — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 11:37:10 -0400

I agree 100% sir. Out of respect for onesservice, it is hard for individuals who served to put aside ones rank. On the other hand I have experienced spouses who think they are special because of their spouses. On one occasion a newly promoted Brigadiers wife had gotten a ticket for parking in the GO only parking at the commissary. The MP ( don't know what the correct term is forbrass balls on a female soldier is), but she told this lady she has no proof of what she was saying. Rumor had it the general told her to pay the ticket. Lol

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Aug 5 at 2017 11:30 PM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 23:30:17 -0400

Small people do small things...... Real leaders lead there is no issue for me to say Col to a man that I met as a Col or Major to a man that I met as Major. I know that there is a comfort zone for many who have served as officers to know my background I was a Staff Sargent in the Marines a 2861, which for those that don't know, means that I have a functioning brain. That being said it is the fact that the only way the mission gets accomplished is when all individual contributions are respected. We salute as a matter of mutual respect and that is the basis for our success. Real leaders work tirelessly to ensure the missions success, Real leaders realize the mission succeeds only when their subordinates succeed. Those of us in the enlisted ranks deserve and yes demand respect, everyone puts their pants on the same way from Privates to Generals, This thread is really not about rank per sea but an age old problem or a poorly suited wife as a military wife. It is a issue for the Sgt Major's ear. I have been honored by the friendship of several senior officers and especially those on active duty I would never address them inappropriately familiarly. Respect is earned and those who demand acknowledgement of former rank usually do so out of insecurity, especially if their rank was greater than yours. We know who they are....

Response by CW2 Fred Baker made Aug 9 at 2017 12:00 AM

CW2 Fred Baker — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 00:00:21 -0400

I always felt it was a form of respect for the rank. All of my military and veteran friends call me chief. I have never asked others to to refer to me that way. I have a close friend who was a Naval Captain and always refer to him as skipper. I have a Marine friend who always calls me "gunner." I hear it's how they refer to their pilots.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 9:18 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:18:19 -0400

Because we are proud of our service and others who served. As for lippy spouses my first instinct is they should be bitch slapped by their husbands.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Aug 10 at 2017 10:22 AM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:22:17 -0400

Just like how people in here tries to vilify another person based on their rank because they're a rank higher. I just LOL and disrespect them and make them feel unimportant.

Response by J Leigh Tarzian made Aug 10 at 2017 11:11 AM

J Leigh Tarzian — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:11:09 -0400

Very interesting and while I do not have an answer I have witnessed this in my family. My step-father and his son are both retired military. The son achieved a higher rank than his father and has shown the this same type of disregard.

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made Aug 12 at 2017 11:47 AM

SFC Joseph Lumpkins — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:47:34 -0400

This actually happens to me at the commissary on Schofield Barracks in Hawaii. I was a SGT and this lady pulled that and the bad thing was that she reported it to her hiusband and they reached out to our command (we were an INSCOM unit and not part of the 25th ID) and my CSM had to explain to me that yes it was BS, but that we had to play nice with them since we were a guest on their facility.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2017 12:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:07:59 -0400

Anyone using their own or their spouse's rank in that sort of manner is disgraceful and goes against the military values of conduct, honor and integrity.
Unless the spouse is a uniformed service member, to claim that they have special privileges parallels stolen valor.

Your spouse as a civilian, is a direct reflection upon you wearing the uniform, and the uniform service member's duty is to ensure that their spouse is informed and properly educated on the conduct regarding civil decency and respect towards other uniformed service members.

I tell my Soldiers when there's any misconduct by spouses regardless of who they think they are, to whip out their smartphones and capture video evidence for later review.

In Hawaii, this is a very common problem on Schofield Barracks especially in the PX and Commissary areas.

Response by CSM Michael Sweeney made Aug 12 at 2017 12:24 PM

CSM Michael Sweeney — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:24:29 -0400

My wife was an Army brat when we met. We were both 17. Her dad was a Spec 6 and I was a PFC. She grew up mostly in Germany and Ft Riley. She dated a General's son once. Then we got married at 18, 4 months after we met. We've been married nearly 47 years and we have been retired from Active duty for 18 years now. I say all that as background. My wife never played the rank card even when I made CSM and had senior positions (Post CSM, etc.). In fact once, she was in our quarters and a knock came at the door. It was the wife of a LTG who was visiting our post. She introduced herself as so and so, wife of LTG so and so. My wife said that she wouldn't hold that against her and invited her in. They ended up sitting on the floor doing crafts together and became fairly close. Both were very down to earth and hated attitudes from some of the spouses who tried to wear the service members rank. In fact it was me who joked about the whole thing. I was asked once who outranked who at home and I said "My wife is a Command Sergeant General"

Response by SSG Diane R. made Aug 12 at 2017 12:39 PM

SSG Diane R. — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:39:08 -0400

I've seen this myself and always thought it was silly.

Response by SSG Esperance Dawson made Aug 12 at 2017 12:45 PM

SSG Esperance Dawson — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:45:20 -0400

In 2003 I worked as a liaison between FRG and the military. I was put in that position I was the only service member who was married to another service member in the unit. I had a captains wife tell me that she does not have to listen to what I have to say because she outranks me. She never served a day in her life.

Response by SGT Chris Hotchkiss made Aug 12 at 2017 1:37 PM

SGT Chris Hotchkiss — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:37:10 -0400

I've been out for a little while now, and I still cringe when I hear a wife say "my husband is such and such"...I think, lady...don't even go there. Now, MY wife, wears my fleece jacket on occasion with my name and rank, but she always says something like, "its not mine, its my husbands.". Self entitled women using a rank that is not theirs, nor one that they earned, should be punished similarly to, or ridiculed as much as stolen valor in my humble opinion. Maybe then, Dependas will learn their place.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Aug 12 at 2017 3:23 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 15:23:04 -0400

I was in charge of a joint service section a while back. The USAF came out with a new reg in 1991. Class B uniforms, the undershirt had to be a white, v-collar shirt. It was one of those regs that just got dropped into everybody's laps without much warning & sure enough, my AF boys I had to send home to change their shirts. How did such a stupid reg take hold so fast? Two colonel's wives were in the PX & saw an airman with a dirty crew-neck t-shirt showing on his Class-B uniform. They complained to their hubbies & that is how the reg came down. Gee, why wasn't that just handled at the command level to begin with?

Response by CAPT Dave Woodard made Aug 12 at 2017 4:20 PM

CAPT Dave Woodard — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 16:20:00 -0400

I am rarely ever call Captain, except as an initial greeting by the Marines and Sailors who served with me. More commonly, even today, I'm Doc, not in an irreverent manner, but simply how I have always been known in the military. My eagle landed years ago, and should never fly again.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2017 4:41 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 16:41:22 -0400

I served 11 years as enlisted and 13 years as an officer. I have heard of such stories; however, I never encountered a spouse taking on her husband's rank or using her husband's rank. I'm glad I never experienced that as some of you talk about here.

Response by SFC Wayne Harold made Aug 12 at 2017 5:56 PM

SFC Wayne Harold — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:56:33 -0400

Sounds to me like a cry for attention. I know if it were my wife in that scenario she would more than handle it in her way. I really don't think it's a rank thing as much as wanting to be noticed. It depends on the spouse on how they conduct themselves.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2017 6:42 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 18:42:43 -0400

Has your wife had any more run ins with crazy lady? If she does just have your wife nicely ask where her name is on her husband's dd214 or promotion papers, etc.....that ought to shut her up real quick....

Is your daughter still working at the same place where this took place? Have you had a chance to meet her husband to talk to him about his wife's actions? I know this happened over a year ago but conflicts aren't always corrected within a certain time frame so I am just wondering if your family has issues with this woman still.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Aug 12 at 2017 8:53 PM

MSgt John McGowan — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 20:53:38 -0400

Chain of Commend went away when retired. Address as you see fit. I always try to be polite and friendly, treat others as you want to be treated.

Response by SFC Joh Williams made Aug 12 at 2017 10:45 PM

SFC Joh Williams — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 22:45:22 -0400

It happened to me in the commissary in Seoul, many years ago. I objected and the MP took my name, unit and supervisors number. The next day I got a call from her husband apologizing for her actions.

Response by Cheryl Carrier made Aug 13 at 2017 2:40 AM

Cheryl Carrier — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 02:40:51 -0400

My husband and I went to the commisary in Gelnhausen right after he got off work, I met him, so he could me..so here we are getting some things we need, him in BDUs. We get done fairly quick, but some of the things were to heavy so I needed his help.. I get in line. I am tired. I am facing the cart and our 16 month old daughter is sitting in the seat of the cart. He is standing behind us just looking around waiting. When a woman walks up to him and tells him he needs to move that her husband is Col. So and So.. My husband was a PFC at the time.. He said excuse ma'am. She said it louder, I heard her, I turned around and said what did you say? She said I told him to move I am Col. So and so's wife.. I said your telling me that because your an officers wife it gives you the right to tell a pregnant woman with twins husband to move out of line so you can before us? Is that correct? She said yes, I said I suggest you go ask Col. So and so exactly what your place is, because lady YOU have no rank, your husband does and I really don't think he wants you to put a black mark on his career because your acting like an over privalage witch.. And by the way thank you for saying his name...she huffed and walked off.. Needless to say, nothing was ever said to my husband about what happened in the commisary..

Response by Cheryl Carrier made Aug 13 at 2017 3:02 AM

Cheryl Carrier — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 03:02:51 -0400

The only time I in a sense...used hubbys rank was in Germany in 2003..my husband was deployed to Iraq with his unit and all that was left was Rear D. Well I took the kids around Germany showing them sights and stuff. I got home and my neighbor below me said that 2 soldiers in Class A 's came to the door looking for me. I felt my blood stop. I went upstairs and called the Rear D HQ office and got a PFC on the phone. I was nice, I said I would like to speak to the 1SG. He responded with he is in a meeting ma'am. I said this is an emergency. He said i am sorry ma'am you will have to call back. I said this SSG Carrier's wife, is he dead. He said I don't know ma'am. I said i need the 1SG right now. He said I am sorry ma'am. I said i am going to give you two choices either you get him while I am on the phone or you get him when i get to the unit. He said hold on ma'am..i said good choice. He set the phone down and I heard him knock and then say 1SG I have a crazy wife on the phone asking if her husband is dead..I then hear explicits and running. He picks up the phone and says how can I help you? I said this is Mrs Carrier, is he dead? He said no, i then asked why they came to my door. He said your mom has been trying to reach you and couldnt so she called the Pentagon. I said she did what and your sure he is not dead? He said yes, he is not dead. I called my mother and said WTF mom..early morning rolls around and the phone rings. All i hear is I'm not dead. His commander took the satelite phone in woke him up told him to call amd tell me he is not dead. We will explain later...now we laugh at it, but it was scary then.

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Aug 13 at 2017 9:09 AM

SFC Ken Heise — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:09:50 -0400

I told my wife I don't ever want to hear her refer to herself by my rank. She is her own person. And I also told her that if someone tries that crap with her to walk away!

Response by SSG James Dennis made Aug 13 at 2017 12:09 PM

SSG James Dennis — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:09:04 -0400

As a former NCO, I still find it difficult to address my friends who were officers by their first name. I served during the Cold War era, 83-94, which was the heyday of the all-volunteer force. To me, it is still a sign of respect. 23 years after ETSing it still goes against my grain to think of addressing senior NCOs and officers by their first name. Guess my mind never reoriented itself to being a civilian.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 13 at 2017 2:09 PM

CPT Tom Monahan — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:09:28 -0400

It's BS. Yes, we retirees get to keep our rank title. Who cares? It helps us identify who we once were not who we are now. We are all former soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. My wife's cousin got out as a SGT and no he's a MD. How many folks got out and used their benefits, skill sets and education to move way beyond the rest of us on the socioeconomic ladder? Hint: More than a bunch.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 16 at 2017 4:28 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:28:57 -0400

I think that if this woman is that shallow that she feels by virtue of her husbands rank that she is better than your wife she and her husband need a good talking to if you value their friendship that much.
He may not even be aware that she is looking down at your wife and would be appalled. So if you want their friendship tell the old man how you feel and get this out in the open and taken care of.
if you could care less if you are invited to their next bridge party then spend the time you have with your real friends who appreciate you for who you are and don't pull rank on you!

Response by SGT Chris Hotchkiss made Aug 16 at 2017 5:58 PM

SGT Chris Hotchkiss — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 17:58:03 -0400

Well Sir,(respect) It's kind of drilled into us all. We spent so much time getting told how to address, that we sometimes can never stop. That's why Col, personally, from my own point of view, if I address you by your rank, it means you have my respect. If you're retired and I call you by name, either I'm not fond of you, or we are very good friends. I think the Rank structure is just as important after you leave, as it is when you serve. Meaning, if it were ever pertinent to create/develop an armed militia in defense or support of home/city/state, we can fall back in line easily. My oath has no expiration date, even after retirement, we still serve our country...and that structure is important, in my honest opinion.

Response by SSgt Jimmy Jackson made Aug 16 at 2017 6:32 PM

SSgt Jimmy Jackson — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:32:12 -0400

My wife did not earn NCO status, I did.......I know it's not the highest rank in the world, but it is mine. I refer to Vets, retirees, and active duty here by their rank out of respect. The wife needs to get over herself.

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made Aug 16 at 2017 10:20 PM

SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:20:17 -0400

Rank, and even more so Enlisted/Officer identity is used by the wives of the military member as an identity to feel superior in some way. If you think about it, a junior member's wife does not usually give a hoot, its always the wife of a higher ranking member that seems to make the stink. The wives that do this, just need to get over it, and move on.

Response by PO1 Keith Olson made Aug 18 at 2017 9:59 PM

PO1 Keith Olson — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 21:59:16 -0400

If I know the rank of a person and they are senior to me, then once in a while I will use rank out of respect. More so for senior officers than enlisted. As for wives, never have and never will. I work in a major grocery store in Florida and had an ex officers wife try to pull that bs on me, showed her my retirement card and asked if her hubby had one. She said no and then I basically told her where she and her groceries could go. Had the backing of my manager on that one.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Aug 18 at 2017 11:13 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 23:13:19 -0400

I got told after I started at my new job , by a co worker, that I was alright for an Officer. We were mopping up blood in the men's room from an accident. He was a very seasoned retired senior NCO. I took it as a compliment. It meant I passed the sniff test.

I think we carry biases. My experience though, by in large, is that regardless of rank we are the only ones with he same shared experience. There are about 5-6 of us at work that eat lunch and tell our old War stories to each other. No judgement.

I think it's sad that people would cling to the negative aspects as none of our civilian counter parts care nor understand.

Response by COL Jeff Morris made Aug 20 at 2017 4:03 PM

COL Jeff Morris — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:03:05 -0400

I was fortunate enough to be surrounded by good people and led by good leaders. As such, I managed to retire as a successful brigade commander. (That is not false humility - I worked hard and am not an idiot, yet I know a lot of smarter people than me that did not get the same breaks in the teams they joined.) But the first thing I remind people is that I am just that - retired. So I encourage all to call me by my first name. Some that knew me on active duty still call me sir or Colonel, but that is their choice. (And I am happy when they realize that I really mean it and start calling me by first name!) My first job after the Army, I worked for a retired LTG. When I talk to him about work, I used his first name as it was appropriate for the environment; but whenever I talk about him in his military time I revert to LTG.

Response by SFC William Stephens made Aug 22 at 2017 11:33 AM

SFC William Stephens — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:33:45 -0400

RESPECT!

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Aug 22 at 2017 1:54 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:54:48 -0400

Sir, I think, it's because they want keep their "identity" and "power" over people. Most of these people tend to be in middle or upper management in the civilian world and, probably not intentionally, to treat their employees as "their soldiers"...like that really goes over well. I used to be SFC Taggart and that probably meant something to someone...or not...but now I'm just "Chris." It took me a number of years to figure out "who I was," and sometimes I still wonder, but doing better. For men, lost of identity of their jobs is a big deal, just as children and husband are to women. Just a thought, Sir.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Aug 24 at 2017 1:21 PM

LTC George Morgan — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:21:02 -0400

Tonto say Kemosabe speak with straight tongue!
Regrettable as it is, in our day, and I'm guessing here that you are of my era, many officers AND SNCO wives felt that should be able to reflect their spouses rank to themselves, a situation I put to rest every time I encountered it, both when I was enlisted and commissioned.
My feeling was: You want the rank, wear the uniform! End of discussion.

Response by SSG Tim Thornton made Aug 25 at 2017 9:36 AM

SSG Tim Thornton — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:36:46 -0400

Respect has no rank. The fact is, until proven otherwise by that person, the rank has my respect and then the person. When the person shows a lack of respect for your service as well, then my respect for them is lost and so is the rank.

Response by SSG Tim Thornton made Aug 25 at 2017 9:38 AM

SSG Tim Thornton — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:38:19 -0400

As well as what I mentioned, the fact is that while on active duty, rank should always have respect.

Response by SFC Robert Brooks made Aug 25 at 2017 6:25 PM

SFC Robert Brooks — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 18:25:01 -0400

I had a soldier in Germany come to me,SPC Redacted, because his wife had a problem with another spouse, married to a SGT Redacted, in their neighborhood. The SGT's spouse wanted my soldier counseled because his wife disrespected the wife of an NCO.

Response by CCMSgt James Helms made Sep 3 at 2017 4:47 PM

CCMSgt James Helms — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 16:47:30 -0400

It appears the question about stereotyping military rang turned into one about civilian spouses of military members. However, they both deserve comment. First, I believe for those who retire from the military after 20+ years fall into a totally different category. For the majority, we worked hard, made noteworthy accomplishments and many sacrifices. We are very proud of our proof of worthiness – our earned rank. Well into retirement, we still enjoy being addressed by our military rank when communicating with other military members, retired or active duty.
As far as the “stereotyping,” among professional military members, I for one do not believe it exists. For example, we are aware that some military AFSCs/MOS’ have far better promotion opportunities than others; therefore, there are some military career fields that to retire as an E-7 after 20 years is totally acceptable. The military does not stereotype but it does retain the logical principle of the “Up or Out” criteria. Some military members reach the Maslow Hierarchy of Self-Actualization prematurely and become complacent at a certain rank and need a motivator to progress. For example, if an E-7 is expects to stay beyond the 20-year mark, he/she knows they must first get promoted to the next rank. In my opinion, this criterion has served the military well for the past 50+ years and should be retained.
Do some civilian spouses try to assume their military spouses rang? Yes, some do and I have seen this with both spouse genders. However, when it is a rank below the grade of O-6, very few give value to it and those spouses are usually viewed as having personal problems. Conversely, since the O-6 is normally serving in a senior position (i.e., wing, company commanders) it is not unusual that the commander will urge his/her spouse to initiate/orchestrate spouse group programs for the sole purpose of unit morale. In fact, from my experience, the spouses of a unit normally expect and solicit such authoritative appointments. After all, who is in a better position for spouses within a unit to elevate their grievances to?
Further, most military branches have PX/BX and commissary reserve (perk) parking spots for E-9s, O-6s and above (This is also common for senior managers in civilian corporations). Do I condone my spouse’s use of those E-9 parking spots? You bet I do! During my retirement ceremony my wife told the 300 or so attendees that I spent 12 years of my career either PCS, TDY or deployed away from her and our children -- and she was right. I gave my country 33-years of my life and made numerous family sacrifices therein. Without my wife’s support I could not have given all those years of total dedication to the AF and my Country.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Sep 4 at 2017 2:09 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 02:09:10 -0400

I respect people not rank. I always take an assessment of the individual.
Their rank alone gives me an idea of WHAT they know. Their time in service lets me weigh their experience. Senior NCO's always get deference. Senior officers are usually great to talk to because they have long since passed the point of enjoying the distance that is automatically required in active service.. I have never seen anyone on RP play a "rank card". I think they will be politely shot down if they do.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2017 9:28 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 09:28:27 -0400

What do the military member say to the spouse about their rank?

Response by PO2 Buddy Stewart made Sep 7 at 2017 12:57 PM

PO2 Buddy Stewart — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 12:57:05 -0400

Back when my father was still on the Florida Highway Patrol, he was working Mayport Road. A lady came by him speeding, and of course, he pulled her over and wrote her a ticket. She was upset, as most people are when they get stopped, and proceeded to tell my dad her husband was a Captain in the Navy! My dad said 'really? I was a sailor too', and she snorted that her husband was Captain, not a sailor. Dad handed her the ticket, have a nice day, and off everybody went. Later that afternoon, my dad was stopped by the Captain and he asked my dad if he was the one that pulled his wife over etc. Of course dad said yes. The Captain laughed and apologized for his wife, said when she told him the story, he told her, 'would you be quite, he's right, I am a sailor!'

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Sep 7 at 2017 7:30 PM

Sgt Charles Welling — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 19:30:10 -0400

C'mon, Colonel. My dad was an Army officer, I watched as he was promoted. The distinction by rank, active or not, IS PROMOTED BY THE OFFICER CORPS! Bias and snubbing will always be around, your wife should look passed it and consider the source. As far as you are concerned, YOU LOVE BEING CALLED COLONEL AND DON'T TELL ME YOU DON'T. I go to the Marine ball each year, rank distinction is a part of the drill, I am good with it, it fits in the program.

Response by PO1 Kenneth Hogan, Ph.D. made Sep 8 at 2017 2:27 PM

PO1 Kenneth Hogan, Ph.D. — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 14:27:07 -0400

Interesting, I work with several retired military folks and rank is never used. I have a PhD and a few call me doc and it is the extent of ranking. The bickering of defendants is just that, bickering for something they only have because of marriage.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2017 10:38 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 22:38:31 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Well, that lady has a low Self-Esteem. She hasn't served, so what is her problem? lol

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2017 10:57 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 22:57:13 -0400

So what? My best friend was a 2lt under the General. twice-removed.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Sep 9 at 2017 3:40 PM

SGT Randall Smith — Sat, 09 Sep 2017 15:40:41 -0400

When my dad retired in 1962 he left the Maj. at the gate of Ft. Carson. From then on he was Mister. I say this because in Jan 68 I was home on leave from Germany and heading to Nam. He told me a man he knew had a son home from Nam and heading to Germany and we might want to visit. So I called and when answered said, " Mr. Anderson, is Frank home?" Got a lecture that he was not Mr. Anderson but Maj. Anderson and that is how he was to be addressed. Being 23 years old, a Buck Sgt. and sort of a smart ass I started calling him by his first name. Frank said it really bugged his dad when I did this. But he was not that old, about 42 and sold real estate. A lot of my dads friends went by rank and I had a hard time calling them by it.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2017 4:09 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Sep 2017 16:09:05 -0400

Because they are uneducated....

Response by PO2 David Keener made Sep 19 at 2017 11:08 AM

PO2 David Keener — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 11:08:41 -0400

Depends on the situation. I call attention to someone's rank often but only as a respect to their accomplishment. I think it's perfectly fine unless they ask me not to. Especially for Chiefs and above. I still call my MCs, SCs, and Chiefs by their ranks and we're all vets.

In the case you mentioned however, that's not stereotyping to me, that's just being a tool. Calling someone by their rank is one thing. Trying to abuse it to cheat the system is lame whether you're a vet or not.

Response by SPC Kevin Russell made Sep 19 at 2017 8:29 PM

SPC Kevin Russell — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 20:29:54 -0400

There is no rank card in retirement. So your husband excelled in supply.... I was an E5 grunt.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Sep 19 at 2017 9:25 PM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 21:25:50 -0400

Come on that's just silly Colonel talk sir. LOL

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 2:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:08:16 -0400

Hello. I'm John, it's a pleasure to meet you!

Response by MSgt Andre Stringer made Sep 20 at 2017 7:07 PM

MSgt Andre Stringer — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 19:07:54 -0400

Since I have retired like most. I never tell anyone my rank unless asked. I have found some people will still call a high-ranking enlisted or Officer retired military by rank out of respect to include civilians. We are also introduced by rank. They will say this is retired so and so. I find it a bit irritating at times and told my friends to stop doing it but some insist on addressing me by rank. I have several retired military friends that have the same problem. One is a retired Army Col. most people don't even know his real name. I have even had some active duty address me by rank. Another way rank can follow you is. I am the Co-Founder of the Combat Vets of American Motorcycle Club. I was unanimously appointed the first President. I was told, "You are the highest ranking member here." I held that position unopposed for 5 years until I decided to step down. From what I have seen. There is little to no negative stereotyping by rank once a person retires or leave the service. There is mutual respect. There are few bad apples and they will be swiftly dealt with by other veterans who don't put up with their BS. I have seen that happen at the VFW.

Response by LTC Robert Gray made Sep 21 at 2017 3:46 PM

LTC Robert Gray — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:46:27 -0400

After I left Active duty in 1977 and returned to school, I like most vets, was having problems adjusting. In the school the veterans formed into a Battalion. We took care of each other. If there was a problem we handled it. The vets who where members where generally more successful than those that did not.

In the discipline that I was studying there where roughly 30 vets. I became the platoon leader, retired SFC Platoon Sgt and the SSGs squad leaders. When one of the guys had a problem with life, study or something else we handled it. If it was something which we could not handle, one of the leaders would find the appropriate resource. Having graduated from the University I knew most of the University personnel who could assist. We would take the troop to that resource. Even among the faculty there where a number of Retired individuals. If for example a problem came up that required the Dean's attention we would take it to Captian (Dr.) Marshall USNR who would handle it.

Networking with other veterans is a valuable resource.

Response by MSgt Shawn Wood made Sep 21 at 2017 9:34 PM

MSgt Shawn Wood — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:05 -0400

When I retired I went to work in the commissary because I had my fill of working till my BP climbed through the roof. Just wanted somthing low stress. Much to my chagrin that very thing you mentioned played out daily. Me being the subtle type that I am. (My wife said I would wash out of charm school) I would quickly tell them that the member has the rank, the spouse does not and if they had a problem, their spouse can feel free to come and talk to me about it. As for the rest once you take the uniform off for the last time. You belong to the brotherhood of thoes who dedicated their life to our great nation. Rank doesnt factor into it.

Response by PO1 Joseph Glennon made Sep 21 at 2017 11:15 PM

PO1 Joseph Glennon — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 23:15:53 -0400

Don't all spouses have the same rank? "Spouse"?
Same with dependents. The only ranking member is the one on active duty, imho.

Response by Col Ian O'Connell made Sep 22 at 2017 10:44 AM

Col Ian O'Connell — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 10:44:31 -0400

As Maj Morton said, it's a sign of insecurity. I know of several people who keep their rank in their business email signature, I suspect partly for business reasons. I've yet to see rank add anything to a civilian business, other than contacts shortly after leaving the service. I happen to be a retired Air Force O-6. My current boss is a retired Army SGM. The President and CEO of our company are a former (not retired) Marine Corps Major and Navy Chief Petty Officer. Rank has nothing to do with anything, other than the experience and skills we all bring to the table.

Response by LTC Hillary Luton made Sep 22 at 2017 1:35 PM

LTC Hillary Luton — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 13:35:54 -0400

That's really sad. I looked at retirement as my opportunity to put such things aside. I have friends that are retired GOs, COLs, currently serving CPTs. Hell, my best friend is a retired SFC. Sounds like this woman is a little confused about what is really important in the world. I want to know what she's going to do if her husband makes colonel? Who will she hate then?

Response by SGT Charles H. Hawes made Sep 24 at 2017 10:05 PM

SGT Charles H. Hawes — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 22:05:21 -0400

I address the people by their rank as a sign of respect like many others have said. But i respect people by how they treat others. Rank is earned so is respect. General Allen told me that at Ft.Campbell.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2017 12:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Sep 2017 00:58:37 -0400

Sir,

I'll address a couple of things.

1) After retirement, we should realize that we enter into the "veteran" community. To me, this means that your rank is immaterial at that point. What we were, what authority we held, what positions we filled... these become immaterial once we have those papers in hand that release us from active service. Therefore, I don't think any "stereotyping" should take place outside of the Army. Our pool of veterans in the US is dwindling and we should band together to help support one another, not be at odds over rank.

2) To that end, however, I would still show respect to those who were officers. That's just me. You were a Colonel, therefore - you are "sir" to me. I don't see this as anything to feel demeaning toward myself, but simply acknowledging that your path in life took a different one from my own and you were responsible for larger amounts of people and equipment than I have been in the past 15 years.

3) With regard to the wife: I'll have some colorful language prepared for any spouse who ever tries to pull their spouse's rank out on my Soldiers or me. I respect that these individuals have sacrificed the kind of life many of their civilian counterparts get to lead, but at the same time, they're not "one of us."

Response by MAJ Mike Smith made Sep 28 at 2017 9:16 AM

MAJ Mike Smith — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:16:11 -0400

I always went by "Bob" after I retired. I would have no problem calling out a dependapotomus if she decided to use a rank she never earned.

Response by CWO2 James Mathews made Sep 28 at 2017 9:48 AM

CWO2 James Mathews — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:48:27 -0400

The only officers that I ever served with did not "stereotype" by rank. It was not necessary as I was very fortunate and everyone knew who these people were what they had done and respected them for it. The wives were someting else again. uring this period while I was maried I was a first class P.O. acting as the chief for my weapons division on a submarine. My wife attended two or three of the Dependents meetings while the ship was on patrol or deployed. She soon quit going simply because the Chief's wives seemed to think in the absence of te actual chief that they assumed the rank and privaledges of a chief. She saw the same thing when asked by the Captain's wife to choose a piano for the Captain's daughter to play. The Captain's wife ordered everyone around like she was the four-striper. In my view any man's senior rank is equal to a college degree on any occasion active or retired. The person spends their career learning their job and spends much more time doing that than any academic (20 -30 years). I respect that, and I approve that individual using his rank as an identifier after retirement, but not his or her spouse!!

Response by BG Jim Drago made Sep 30 at 2017 4:25 PM

BG Jim Drago — Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:25:22 -0400

Think what you are seeing is an example of the a person who has earned the term "bless her heart". Other words a "b" who thinks waaay too highly of herself. Tell you wife to move along and ignore her. This person has issues and appears to be toxic in general. BTW I'm a retired Col or as I call myself now, Jim.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2017 1:31 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Oct 2017 13:31:58 -0400

Huh? The last I knew, our spouses were CIVILIANS (most of them any way).

Response by PFC Robert Rice made Oct 1 at 2017 2:29 PM

PFC Robert Rice — Sun, 01 Oct 2017 14:29:47 -0400

I have never experienced what you are going through but I think It Is wrong to play the rank card so to speak. I know that because I was a PFC, I took a lot of flak because of the fact that I was lower ranking than others. I hope things get better In your situation because we all deserve respect.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Oct 1 at 2017 4:21 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 01 Oct 2017 16:21:46 -0400

We still use the rank in addressing former Military even after a person has retired as a sign of respect to our brothers and sisters that like us served in the US Armed Forces. It is another way of saying thank You for Your service. i have found it usually brings out a smile and if it also included a salute a return of a nice sharp return salute. They earned their rank and worked up to that grade , why would I not recognize that ?

Response by PFC Dwayne Dittoe made Oct 2 at 2017 1:19 AM

PFC Dwayne Dittoe — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 01:19:57 -0400

it is my believe that once you're out of the military, end of enlistment or retirement) rank should no longer matter...treat everyone with the same respect they deserve regardless of rank, and as for spouses they did not enlist, they did not earn the rank...they get respect as would any other faithful spouse (if faithful) they are not entitled to the rank their spouse worked so hard to attain

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2017 12:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Oct 2017 12:29:42 -0400

People that due this are pretty sad. I was an E7 when I got out due to a disability. I have a Master Degree (MBA) I could have been an officer, I just did not want to be a LT after becoming an E7. I currently work as a VP for an IT company that does a lot of defense contracting. I have several people under me that were officers (even O5's and O6's), I met with a recently retired O8 last week and rank never comes up. I also don't normally offer it. It is amazing how working at the ARMY HQ level my opinion was often ignored (to the point that I had to give it to my O6 prior to meetings so he could claim it as his own), but once I took the uniform off, all of the sudden my opinion mattered. At the end of the day we all severed and that is all that matters. Retired rank is nothing other than a capture of what you used to be.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Oct 10 at 2017 12:08 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:08:57 -0400

I retired Sept 93 as an E-6 from the Navy. In the late 70s, I had the greatest friend. He was a Lt engineering officer. In a crowd, he was Lt. Otherwise, he was Mike and I was Tom. I once had a young man working for me who went on to become an E-9 fleet Master Chief. I call him MC out of respect but, he'll always be Pete. A fellow E-6 that retired as a Warrant. He will always be Bill. A Commander whose name is Jim yet, I always call him Commander and he calls me Bosn. We are all friends to this day except for Mike. Lost track of him. There is nothing but ultimate respect between me and me mates. Even you John McKee. I never knew the Army could produce such a fine Lt and a Vietnam vet to boot. So many others. Hell, if there's no respect, we ain't mates.

Response by LTC Larry Davis made Oct 10 at 2017 1:30 PM

LTC Larry Davis — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:30:18 -0400

I've been retired for a while, but I recall some wives playing the rank card. Normally, it was the CG's wife or a brigade CDR's wife; at battalion and below, there didn't seem to be a big deal about it. It always irked my wife with one of the other wives used husband's rank as prerogative. Several years ago, she attended the wedding of a friend of ours at Fort Jackson; she was introduced as the "the Colonel's wife", and really had a hard time with how she was treated. She just wanted to be "one of the girls", but the ladies insisted that she be served "as due her rank." So, the prejudice and practice still exists.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2017 3:57 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:57:28 -0400

I noticed in my corporate life some retired members were still living in the past. Others you would never know they had been in the military.
So it really depends on the individual. I haven't been called Major in years except by USAA reps who always call you by your rank.
Just call me Johnie.

Response by 1SG David Spalding made Oct 17 at 2017 5:15 AM

1SG David Spalding — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 05:15:34 -0400

Thankfully, I have never seen military spouses demand respect for their significant others' rank. Maybe that's because I live nowhere near an active duty base. Some shows of respect are rank related, but not completely related to it. I'm commander of a Combat Veterans Motorcycle Association (CVMA) Chapter, and almost all of our elected board are former senior NCOs or officers. Our military experience and leadership is respected because of what we have done and the skills we bring to the group. You may or may not see that as rank-related, but we gained that expertise from the positions in which we served. So, respecting the rank after retirement or ETS - depends on the person.

Response by CPL George Boldi made Oct 17 at 2017 4:38 PM

CPL George Boldi — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:38:15 -0400

I show the same respect as if I was still active, weather it be an active duty, retired, or completed contract and opted to not re enlist. Bottom line, they earned the rank as well as my respect as a fellow Veteran.

Response by LTC Conrad Novack made Oct 19 at 2017 12:09 PM

LTC Conrad Novack — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:09:23 -0400

My experience, having been retired from the Army for almost 34 years, is that rank has little impact on my interpersonal relationships. That said, when interacting with other retired military folks, though I don't consciously choose to advertise my rank, the topic likely will come up at some time. In most cases my associates and I continue with the informality of addressing each other by first names, although there are some who may have difficulty with that. A case-in-point is a relationship I continue to maintain with a retired SFC who just couldn't find it comfortable to call a Lt Col by the first name. Since our relationship was first predicated on both of us teaching at a local public school, in which I was the grade-level chairman, he adopted the use of "Boss" when he spoke with me, and even though we are both retired from our teaching positions, he continues in that use of "Boss" to address me whether in speech or in writing.

Response by MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS made Oct 22 at 2017 10:30 PM

MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 22:30:46 -0400

Seems some people have a self esteem issue and that was one way to ease it maybe.
For me in SF, we had none of that, we all were first names. Now retired we all still on a first name basis. Our company SGM was the God Father for our Company Commander a Major who ret as an LTG. Our Battalion CDR knew us Team Sergeants by first names and the Group Commanders likewise.
I posted in another chat that most of us are still in phone contact.

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Oct 25 at 2017 1:46 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 01:46:28 -0400

Not to sound disrespectful to you, or any other military member be they active, reserve or retired status, but the problem with the "rank card" played by any spouse is not the rank of the service member, it is with the attitude and intestinal fortitude of the service member. If the spouse of any service member is not also a service member, that spouse holds no rank and it is up to the service member to make that point very clear. This practice of a spouse wearing the rank of the service member is a disgusting example of personal vanity and should never be allowed to happen.

Response by SPC James Jackson made Oct 27 at 2017 3:40 PM

SPC James Jackson — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 15:40:03 -0400

Excuse my language but it's usually because they're a dick! And they feel they "entitled" to line-hopping and the such.

Response by PO3 Kenneth Climer made Oct 28 at 2017 3:41 PM

PO3 Kenneth Climer — Sat, 28 Oct 2017 15:41:15 -0400

Silly girls... You never had the rank to be able to play the rank card. Your husband had the rank that you will never have. Stop coat tailing, grow up, and stand on your own two feet. Silly women! (Obviously this does not apply to veteran women.)

Response by PO2 Kevin Parker made Oct 29 at 2017 1:17 PM

PO2 Kevin Parker — Sun, 29 Oct 2017 13:17:01 -0400

Having retired in 1998. I've been around military my whole life. Being an Army brat, retiring from the Navy, being a DOD Contractor. I have always seen it done as a show of respect. Calling them by Col, SGM, Top, Ist sgt, Chief and so on when we meet. Depending on what happens after that meeting kinda determines whether it's continue it or not. If we are out building a ramp for one of our elderly, I probably would say "hey Mike hand me that level" instead of SGM. I have a hard time remembering names! I guess all those years with their name on the shirt or my older age. So I might call you by your rank until I remember your name.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 4:44 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 04:44:14 -0400

Classic dependa. Timeless, really.

Response by SSG Steven Lemon made Nov 2 at 2017 10:49 AM

SSG Steven Lemon — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 10:49:13 -0400

I just can't figure out how anyone knows a person's rank AFTER they retire.
Not that it matters to ME. because I treat every retiree that I encounter as a RETIREE.
Their rank is important only to them.

Response by SSG Rick Cave made Nov 2 at 2017 1:08 PM

SSG Rick Cave — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:08:45 -0400

In 1992, I was an E-4 and worked at a media duplication facility at Fort Benning. The Commander's wife brought in copies of a Disney movie to be copied for all the members of the FRG. I refused for obvious legal reasons. She said to me, "Do you know who my husband is?" I said, "I really don't care." Later, the Commander tried to apologize for his wife but I refused his apology because he did nothing to me.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Nov 2 at 2017 1:11 PM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:11:45 -0400

I retired as a CW5. I don't give a crap what rank you were.... What matters is you served. Much as I hate to say it I see it in the VFW. Seems to occur mostly with RLOs. AKA real live officers AKA 0 grade.

Response by SGT Cliff Sees made Nov 4 at 2017 12:56 AM

SGT Cliff Sees — Sat, 04 Nov 2017 00:56:42 -0400

I enlisted into the Army at age 32. I had been married by that time for nearly 10 years - so I was more mature and responsible than my Basic classmates, who were in their early 20s,at mostró. I had received permission to have my mother, my wife and my sisters drive me from Basic graduation at Fort Knox, KY, to Fort Benjamin Harrison, near Indianapolis, for further training, rather than taking the bus with other graduates. Unfortunately, my company commander had not received word that I was exempt from the bus ride, and he opposed the family plan.
My father had been retired as an Air Force major for about 10 years at this point, but my mother, when talking to my CO (a captain), pulled my father's rank on him. I was quite embarrassed, because such an act was unwarranted, and, in the end, unnecessary. Once the captain was informed by his superior that I indeed had dispensation, he of course approved the private-vehicle travel.
That was the first and only time, though, that I saw my mother "wear" my father's rank.

Response by SGT Cliff Sees made Nov 4 at 2017 1:06 AM

SGT Cliff Sees — Sat, 04 Nov 2017 01:06:45 -0400

I like to play a game with myself when I'm at a VA facility - guess who was enlisted, and who was officer. I never ask, so I don't know if my guessing is ever right or wrong. But from the get-go, I presume that the majority of clients were enlisted, because officers tend to get jobs in the afterlife that offer generous health and welfare benefits, and former officers generally don't need to rely on the VA for their after-service care. Anybody else have the same viewpoint?
If you didn't see my previous post on this subject, although I was Army enlisted, my father was Air Force officer; so I've seen both worlds.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 4:26 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 16:26:02 -0500

To me, its pretty simple- they peaked during the service, and have nothing important in their lives, so they wanna throw their former title around. Its one thing for an offhanded "oh, you served? Cool, Im retired Colonel" or whatever, but it shouldn't be something you expect to be called by anymore. Had a retired Master Chief who was working at Home Depot try to pull that on me when I was shopping. Told me hes retired and I should address him as Master Chief, but I looked at his nametag and said "Cool, but it says here your name is Kyle(can't remember his name) and I'm all set for help. Have a good one." and walked away. I think its sad really to throw it around like some people do.

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Nov 12 at 2017 10:58 PM

LTC Ronald Stephens — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 22:58:03 -0500

I wish I had an answer to that that I could really hang my hat on but I don't. That said I'm gonna take a flyer here and say that there may be a degree of insecurity or identity issues involved here. My late wife was also a retired LtC Army and she ranked me by several months as she finished C&GS earlier than I did. It never came up between us as she was not that kind of officer, let alone person. When both of us retired we agreed that the rank insignia would stay with the uniforms when they came off. We belong to a group of retired military folks whose active duty ranks ranged from MSGT to Full Colonel. We have breakfast together every Saturday. They are people whom we all have known for over 25 years and some even longer. We all occasionally bring guests as we do with our son who is an active duty USAF Tech. Sergeant. While he addresses all of us as "sir" or in the case of his mom, "ma'am" when appropriate it was because it was the way we raised our children. Not so much in deference to rank. He was Jeff to the rest of us. Among the rest of us though it is always by given name.
Respect isn't necessarily shown simply by addressing by rank. Respect is also given by one's actions.

Response by Lt Col Jim Bemis made Nov 17 at 2017 5:43 AM

Lt Col Jim Bemis — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 05:43:52 -0500

I have two things to share. One, when we retire (or leave the service), many of us describe the experience as being "busted down to Mr. or Ms." We won't make a big deal of someone calling by our former rank, but we do not view it as an entitlement, so do not get upset if it is not used. Being a bit older, I tend to be more conservative about first name use without the other person's permission. Second, the Major's wife reminds me of the story I was told about the officer who was asked to speak to a wives' club (yes, I know spouses can be male; this was an older time). The officer, at some point in the meeting, had the spouses line up "according to rank." It turns out one of the spouses/wives was a female first lieutenant; the rest were civilians. That didn't stop the colonel's wife and the general's wife from jostling their way to the front of the "line." When they were done, the officer informed them that none of them, with the exception of the first lieutenant, held any rank, so as to get over themselves and remember that when they attempted to "use" their spouse's rank in other situations. It may be the story was apocryphal, but I enjoyed it nevertheless.

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Nov 17 at 2017 12:40 PM

SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 12:40:34 -0500

I like to share this story about rank while being in the Military. One day I was in the PX in uniform at Travis I was an E-2 at the time back in the early eighties. I was browsing around looking at electronics. As I was looking immediately to my left I noticed this lady standing up also looking. She gave me this evil mad dog look like I had did something to her. As I continued to look I noticed she was looking at me like I was out of place or I shouldn't be there. It kind of annoyed me however I went on about my business looking. Then it appeared to me she was standing right next to me. I don't know what it was karma or what. At that time I was able to squeeze off one of the most foul smelling silent FARTS you could imagine. The look on her face was dismay. She begin to look down and all around at her shoes. There were several people in the area close by so she didn't know where the foul odor was coming from. It was absolutely hilarious. The moral of the story regarding the subject on rank was as I was leaving out of the check out stand and I seen she as with her husband he was a full Colonel and that's the only reason I could think why she was looking at me so harshly. Anyway I shared the story with my fellow Airmen and they thought it was hilarious also.

Peace!

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 17 at 2017 1:48 PM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:48:54 -0500

I usually only rib folks about rank now that Im out. Im not sure what basis a MAJ wife has to hate a COL wife though... If her husband is any good at what he does he'll be a COL soon enough. Although when I was in I stayed as far away from any officer above the rank of 1st LT out of self preservation haha.

Response by PO2 Frank Read made Nov 19 at 2017 2:32 PM

PO2 Frank Read — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 14:32:08 -0500

I was raised to 'respect" all members of the Armed Forces, regard,ess of rank. My father was 0-5 when he retired. He was addressed as Sir. My friends who have retired are address by name. The rank card should NEVER be played, except when you do not know the person. Some Military Wives can be catie thinking that husbands rank gives them a step up. Oh wrong thy are.

Response by LtCol Brut Krulak made Nov 20 at 2017 4:29 PM

LtCol Brut Krulak — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:29:48 -0500

Damn people whine a lot these days. Your poor poor wife.

Response by LtCol Brut Krulak made Nov 20 at 2017 4:34 PM

LtCol Brut Krulak — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:34:20 -0500

Mikel to each his own. Your wife has her nose in the air cause of your former rank. Man talk about petty crap.

Response by CWO4 Ray Fairman made Nov 22 at 2017 3:14 PM

CWO4 Ray Fairman — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:14:46 -0500

When I was a Private, I was taught the following: Rank has its privileges ... and First in Garrison results in last in the field... as I went up the enlisted chain to Gy/Sgt I learned last in the field translated to last in garrison as well... for the real leaders I learned my leadership from. When I was commissioned I always used my SNCO leader's guide book as my Officers leadership manual and in that book I learned not to demand respect for my rank, but to earn it.. Thus I developed followers to lead, not subordinates to command. My Marines used my informal rank to address me when others were around but not all the time in private because we worked as a leadership team, when you earn respect, it must also be freely given and I learned young that when respect is mutually exchanged, it is easily given and received.... so call me what you like... I can only take one thing to heaven with me and that is my reputation.

Response by LCDR Lorenzo Rodriguez made Nov 23 at 2017 12:48 PM

LCDR Lorenzo Rodriguez — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 12:48:14 -0500

When I was a new Chief Petty Officer, my new wife went to a “New Dependents Orientation Class” And two things were made perfectly clear to her: 1). *I* was in the service and not her and 2) *I* held the rank and not her.
While I was enlisted, every officer I introduced my wife to was a perfect gentleman and introduced themselves to my wife using their first name (I knew they were not talking to me).
This is only a problem when dealing with dependents who are horse’s backsides and if their conduct comes to the attention of their sponsor, they are usually corrected.
Service members are a different story. Officers are moved to the retired list but are subject to recall until the day after they die. Retired enlisted are in the ready reserve for at least 10 years after they retire then get moved to the retired list.
In either case, it’s always a good idea to be respectful of old men who were in a profession where men usually die young.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Nov 24 at 2017 11:07 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:07:56 -0500

She doesn't wear the rank, her husband does. If she wants to wear the rank, sign up.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Nov 24 at 2017 11:26 AM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:26:00 -0500

In my view, the behavior of the Marine's wife is deplorable. Despite our rank and MOS, we all served and are part of the military family. Each of us has contributed to the good of the service, and for the most part, our wives were instrumental. Some people, both military and civilian, cannot grasp the humanity involved. My current wife of 39 years only experienced two years of military life with me and held disdain for those of ineptness, regardless of rank, and told them so. As for playing the rank card? She never did it. Once, she told a colonel's wife to move to the back of the line at the commissary as she wasn't sporting any eagles.
All we can do now is to pray for the less fortunate in wisdom and demeanor.

And my first name is shown for a reason.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Nov 26 at 2017 11:21 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:21:24 -0500

I do it out of respect. I know a former USCG CPO who lives in my town, not well, but by sight. When I greet him, I great him as Chief, both out of habit and out of respect for his accomplishments. I have been friends for a number of years with several of MDs, all now retired. On a social level I called them by their first names, because they requested it, but when I related to them on a professional level either as a patient, or a co-worker, I referred to them by their title. Do I insist that anyone refer to me by my rank? Heck no. Does it make me stand a little prouder when someone recognizes what I did and does? Heck yea, and to coin a one of Col Mike's commonly used phrases, "and why not?"

Response by SFC Charles McVey Sr. made Nov 27 at 2017 8:30 PM

SFC Charles McVey Sr. — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:30:55 -0500

About the only time I am addressed by my Rank now day i if I go to a Military Medical Facility, other then that most of those who know me personally use my first name. I had issue with the Spouse of an active duty officer a few years ago who expected me to treat her according to her Husband Rank, I had to inform her that he had the particular rank and therefore RP, he did not. About two hour after I got off duty, I received a call from her husband and he thanked me for actually as he put it "Bringing her back to Planet Earth."

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 3:57 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:57:53 -0500

I still call the retired COLs and General Officers I see around by their rank/title. Just a thing of respect for me I guess. When I run into fellow retired NCOs, we usually just call each other by name (first or last). When I meet someone who was subordinate to me back in the day, they usually call me Top or First Sergeant. To be honest, I really don't think about this stuff......

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Nov 28 at 2017 4:48 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:48:33 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs: Mikel, your question is very valid. I always attempt to veer on the cautious side; and address Rally Point members by their rank.
However, if, for instance a Rally Point member messages me; and signs with their first name- then I will respond accordingly.
HAVE A BEYOND BELIEF STELLAR DAY, MIKEL! -Margaret

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2017 9:24 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 09:24:41 -0500

Any spouse who plays the rank card needs a stern adjusting. THEY DO NOT ASSUME THE RANK OF THEIR SPOUSE. They are both civilian and equal in every sense of the word. That woman needs a reality check and if she thinks she is better because of her husband's rank or whatever, then she needs to join the military.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Dec 2 at 2017 7:03 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 19:03:09 -0500

In the CID, we didn’t use our rank and when I retired in 1994, I have yet to play the rank card nor has my wife. I am simply a veteran unless a prospective employer inquires about my active duty rank.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2017 11:23 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 23:23:14 -0500

My daughter is on a club volleyball team, in an area with many Air Force retirees. The area is upscale, so many are former AF Officers. One girl's mother came right out and asked my wife what rank I was ( I am still in the Army Guard). She replied a warrant Officer. She said..Is that really like an Air Force Officer? AHAHHAHAHAH,,screw her, these wives are knuckleheads, and their husbands too, they know they are like this. The joke is..I am a carreer air traffic controller, and make more money than their retired Colonels did or do.

Response by SPC Nanette Porter made Dec 3 at 2017 2:27 PM

SPC Nanette Porter — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 14:27:04 -0500

I have seen some of how wives act and I would rather rearrange the motor pool and do layouts than spend 5 minutes with some of them that like to do that. I have always believed that each branch of the military had it's place and should be respected and each rank as well. And that doesn't change whether you are a vet or active duty. But why the wives act like that I don't know. Thow I do know some men that would find anything to do, just to stay late so not to have to go home, because there wife was like that.

Response by MCPO William Richards made Dec 3 at 2017 10:01 PM

MCPO William Richards — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:01:36 -0500

Many people call me Doc both civilians and military. I take it as a sign of respect. I call all retirees by their rank if I know it.

Response by Cpl Howard Dingman made Dec 4 at 2017 9:14 AM

Cpl Howard Dingman — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 09:14:24 -0500

The entire caste-class system in the military made my decision to leave after my first hitch. Respect is one thing, but snobbery is counterproductive and hazing happens. It seems that only the third world and the military have caste systems, and I had no interest in living that way. I was no better or worse than any other person wearing the uniform, but sadly many in the "upper castes" believe differently. Then they wonder why there are retention problems, particularly for the highly-qualified and expensive-to-train MOS's - like mine. After discharge, I found that "my service dates were wrong" and I could not join several veterans organizations. Fine. I served my country proudly. Enjoy your petty games. I choose not to play.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Dec 4 at 2017 1:12 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 13:12:11 -0500

I grew up Navy / Marine Corps. I saw this all the time. Then I joined the Amy and did not see it untill I was Out for some time,and came back in after i was married. I thought that this stuff would have died down. Said to say it is alive and kicking. The spouses need to understand that they do not carry the rank. The family support groups are for all spouses to share info,and support each other not just the officers and senior NCO's . Now this does go both ways , But most of the time it goes top to bottom. I know it is not like this in all Units. still one is to meny. When you are retired it should not matter.

Response by SPC Bryan Guzman-Piedra made Dec 7 at 2017 2:53 AM

SPC Bryan Guzman-Piedra — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 02:53:40 -0500

I didn't stereotype by rank when I was in.

I was put into some pretty unique positions at a pretty low rank. I think it also matters what part of the army you're in. I was in aviation. There's a lot less separation between officers and enlisted as well as a lot less separation between lower enlisted and NCOs. It's the nature of the branch and the missions it must fulfill that make it this way. Being rank shy in aviation simply doesn't work.

As a veteran I'm not going to call anyone sir or ma'am now unless they're signing my paychecks. I will refer to currently serving individuals by their rank, while they're acting in their official capacity and in uniform. Otherwise you're getting the first name treatment.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Dec 9 at 2017 2:19 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 02:19:36 -0500

I can relate to officers doing so as they are commissioned by an act conferred by Congress. It does not expire unless they resign the commission, as I understand the process (I'm sure if wrong someone will enlighten me). Once retired or having left the military I see it more as a ceremonial gesture and in cases of flag officers, respect for the position attained. To this day, unless I know one is a flag officer or told to the contrary to address them by name, I always address them using their rank i.e. Col. Burroughs.

Now to the enlisted ranks. I think in official correspondence of a military nature it is acceptable. I also will occasionally address an Air Force SNCO E-9 as "Chief." That said, for someone enlisted to continue to "wear their rank" after retirement or separation is not correct. I'm sure I'll get some disagreement on that from some of you too.

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Dec 9 at 2017 9:29 PM

SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 21:29:48 -0500

We all are creatures that want to hold onto something even though when it's no longer relevant. I am sure many of you have heard the story from someone that identifies themselves with the 65 Mustang or 69 Charger they use to have. If it makes you feel good or gives you a certain status then we want to hold onto it in someway.

Peace!

Response by SCPO Russell A Scott made Dec 10 at 2017 7:28 PM

SCPO Russell A Scott — Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:28:33 -0500

It is not a stereotype, it is a sign of respect. You earned that rank and privilege to be referred to as Senior Chief, Gunny, Staff Sargent, Captain, LT.
Where I work there are several veterans, we do not seek them out and compare rank and insist on being called by our rank. We do it out of respect for the individuals service and accomplishments.
I ran across a former commanding officer, I could by all rights called him by his name but out of respect I addressed him as Capt. (Name), he responded by calling me Senior Chief. As we continued to interact we referred to each other by out names.

Those that demand it have an issue, my old business partner will still refer to me a s Senior Chief and I his out of respect and friendship.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2017 9:14 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:14:25 -0500

I do it out of respect towards my elders. Unless I have permission to use their first name then it’s either their rank and last name, or proper title with last name or even sir or ma’am.

I do not think it has anything to do with insecurity or anything of the sort. It seems that as that next generations are coming of age and having families of their own, they are forgetting to teach their children about honor and respect for people of authority and their elders. That is why discipline starts at home and grows from there.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2017 11:07 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:07:40 -0500

I can’t stand anyone who “plays the rank card.” It’s just downright shameful. Maybe it’s just my upbringing as an enlisted soldier that demands I let those “junior” to me eat first, or go ahead of me during a busy lunch line. I also make it a point to shake the hands of those proud veterans wearing their caps denoting their service and always call them ma’am or sir, regardless of what rank they held on active duty. Just remember it’s our honor to serve this great nation and just as much of an honor to recognize and respect those who came before us. I can tell you that I may be a Captain, but the veteran Specialist who is at home and has steered this family for over 23 years gets her “yes ma’am’s” from me along with a smart salute every day!

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2017 5:41 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:41:19 -0500

I think you'll find most of the bad treatment is between spouses and not the members themselves. It's pretty discgraceful, even when active you'll see spouses of (usually) officers act pretty crappy toward (usually) enlisted spouses.
I think it's just some people need to feel special and treat others lesser to make themselves feel better. If my wife ever did that I'd be pretty mad, it's totally disrespectful, we're all one team and should act like it. If, god forbid, the members got deployed, it would be way better to have friends among other dependants.

Response by CPO Ed Hoover made Dec 13 at 2017 1:31 PM

CPO Ed Hoover — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:31:20 -0500

I've heard cases, where the wife wears the husbands rank to one up, others.

Response by SSG Max Goodman made Dec 16 at 2017 8:58 AM

SSG Max Goodman — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 08:58:35 -0500

Once you are out drop the rank. Means nothing... just saying

Response by SGM Donald Occhi made Dec 17 at 2017 2:17 PM

SGM Donald Occhi — Sun, 17 Dec 2017 14:17:21 -0500

I worked with a jackass who hated me because I retired as a Sergeant Major.
Never used that, didn’t matter since I was a civilian.
But I just told him, “you never served with me, so you don’t know a thing about how I was as a soldier, an NCO, or an infantryman.
I don’t care if you live, die, or grow a tail.”

Response by CMSgt Donald Felch made Dec 18 at 2017 5:31 AM

CMSgt Donald Felch — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 05:31:48 -0500

Retired 4 years ago—have never seen my rank negatively impact a relationship on the ouside. On the other hand, many people have given me courtesies afforded to serving military. I do not intentionally bring up rank as it has no bearing out here but as an ROTC teacher, I still wear it.

Response by PO3 Rich Graver made Dec 21 at 2017 9:50 PM

PO3 Rich Graver — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:50:23 -0500

Fuck that Bitch

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Dec 21 at 2017 10:08 PM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:08:44 -0500

Mikel, it's a sorry state of affairs when a wife gets haywired over a friend's spouse simply because of rank--or feeling stressed that her husband is outranked by you. That's a truly petty situation. When I was an E5 and E6 my ex-wife and I had several friends who happened to be officers (at Fort Bragg) and rank was never a consideration. Because of their visits in our home as "home teachers" from our church we usually addressed one another as "brother" or "sister" and eventually by first names as time went on.

What your wife endured is simply pathetic and useless--all caused by a hairbrained woman.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Dec 24 at 2017 3:05 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 15:05:20 -0500

Best example of that I ever personally experienced was when I was stationed at N.A.S. Whidbey Island, Washington. It was Christmas time and the lines were long at the Exchange. Here comes this woman who was way overdressed (priss) and immediately tries to jump to the front of the line. Well, a few places back was a woman and her friend (probably late 30's or early 40's) who promptly tells her "hey lady, the back of the line is over there". Miss Priss responds with "I'll have you know that my husband is Cpt. so and so" (Colonel equivalent) . To which the crusty old broad replied; "Look honey, I fu%$ a sailor for a living too. The back of the line is over there."
It seems to me that there are very few times where rank is pulled by service members, and very few members who feel it necessary to pull rank. However, this seems to be quite the opposite when it comes to spouses. I will say this too, (knowing that it will sound sexist, but it the preponderance of evidence supports it) female spouses seem to be the worst offenders.

Response by SrA David Owen made Dec 26 at 2017 10:21 AM

SrA David Owen — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 10:21:51 -0500

I get it from time to time. I spent a few years in the USAF after high school and separated as an E-4, but not before completing my undergrad degree and a masters. After separating I went to pursue my PhD and moving forward I now teach in a tenure position in the Pennsylvania State University system. Why do I share this amount of detail you may ask? Well, every now and then I come across a veteran who inevitably asks for my highest rank and I share it. The tone of the conversation sometimes changes, usually responding to a rank I had over two decades ago rather than what has been accomplished in the past two decades. In the academy across the U.S., I have peers who served in all the military branches and separated/retired at different ranks. We typically converse on 'the old days' from time to time, but only because we can relate to one another in a mutually respectful manner.
When I meet veterans I never inquire as to their highest rank or anything else. Though we do chat on duty locations, especially Japan, Korea and the Philippines! All veterans have different stories but it's the common core--that is, we served--that unites all of us. That should be enough, in my opinion!

Response by CPT Mark Brogan made Dec 27 at 2017 2:37 PM

CPT Mark Brogan — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:37:33 -0500

I've found rank to be utterly irrelevant now that I'm out. I have many colonel and above friends whom we address each other by first name. I am friends with former soldiers and lower enlisted I meet at veteran organizations. Military rank is who you were, not who you are as a vet.

Response by Lt Col Jp Champion made Dec 28 at 2017 11:54 AM

Lt Col Jp Champion — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 11:54:44 -0500

I agree with you 100% Col Mike. I sure do not understand where that Majors Wife is coming from?? She is a 04s wife and yout wife is an 06 wife and she does not like her?? Is she jealous or something? I am an retired 05 and my wife has Never/Ever worn my rank on her shoulders.

Response by SGT Michael Cardin made Dec 29 at 2017 1:26 AM

SGT Michael Cardin — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:26:55 -0500

I'm proud of the rank I achieved. But I know I could have done better, I played the rank yoyo. I do have some regrets over the poor choices I made during my career.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2017 10:21 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:21:19 -0500

I honestly can't stand how wives think they are entitled to our ranks. My wife will never use my rank on anybody. My wife is older and my step daughters friends dads outrank me and I do not get treated less when my daughter hangs out with her friends. I think wives should have mutual respect for each other because they do endure extreme hardships with us deploying and being away for so long but regardless of our ranks they are the same level. They took no oath, never went through any basic training, and do not fall under our rank structure. If my wife ever mistreated a wife of a lesser rank I would be highly embarrassed and pissed off. As far as rank inside our military like I've told every squad I've ever had. There are 2 ways to respect leaders. By their collar which orders state you have too. And by my name tape which you don't have too. But the name tape is where the respect matters. People will do what I say because I'm a staff sergeant but will they do it because of who I am not what I am. That's a question I keep deep inside of me because when someone respects the person over position bigger and better things happen. Respect is a 2 way street. Wives should just be respectful as people and they can be prideful but expecting privileges based off rank is uncalled for. I don't expect privileges on my rank. I've denied to ride in the front of 7 tons because my Marines were in the back. If it's pouring down rain and even 1 of my Marines can't find a way out of the rain then I'm standing out their with him. I'm not special, and nobody else is. Regardless of your position or rank if you would go away someone would step up in a second. Were all expendable and the military will continue to push with whoever it has.

Response by CPT Jim Gallagher made Jan 1 at 2018 9:43 AM

CPT Jim Gallagher — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 09:43:40 -0500

"RESPECT" for a station in life well deserved. The Majors wife is plainly a "snobby bitch" which makes her just plain rank !!

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Jan 1 at 2018 11:03 AM

PO2 Michael Henry — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 11:03:17 -0500

Spouses can't play the rank card. They haven't earned the rank. They have their own positions to fill as part of the chain of command and need to worry about that.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2018 12:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:08:44 -0500

Demanding recognition based on rank is a hallmark of insecurity. Having reasonable pride and recognition of the sacrifices that others make to attain rank should also be a given. It is also insecure to be bothered by the achievement of others. Commissioned Officers are also Commissioned for life. Unless a formal process is initiated to remove the rank that commission and resonsability is also for life. It’s also not a question of who is better or more important. Yesterday I ran into a CW5 and let him know how impressed I was with his service. I’ve told many Enlisted the same thing. Officers are useless without men to lead and can accomplish nothing alone. Army-military is a team sport.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2018 10:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:40:31 -0500

This is just more Identity politics. The idea you are better than me because of your rank is quite offensive. Col. I am not saying this to you, I am using universal you. Many people are not this way. I serve with some of the finest people who are just people. We use rank as our structure for operations. We use our intelligence collectively to accomplish the mission. IF everyone is doing their jobs, then "rank" rarely needs to be an issue.

Translating that to spouses and retirees, Yes I appreciate your service, your spouse however, IS NOT your rank and aside from their relation to you, are just another civilian with no authority. They assume by proxy because their spouse is a ranking individual, that somehow they also have authority over the wives and spouses of military members. Just more snobbery if you ask me.

Our family organization is operated by a group of spouses. They assume no rank and are there in a fabulous support role. Nothing more, nothing less.

Response by MSG Micheal P Floyd Jr made Jan 3 at 2018 2:29 PM

MSG Micheal P Floyd Jr — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 14:29:13 -0500

"Stupid is what stupid does..." but as for me and my Home/Auto Insurance Representative, he is my "LTC" whose first commitment is my well being. He is "Retired" but I grant him nothing but the Honor and Respect his former pay-grade demanded. He is seen by me as an Officer who rose through the trials and tribulations to the Rank of "LTC" and he earned everything that came with this endurance. As a Master Sarge, he recognizes my years and Service here at home and away from home. When my Insurance payments were due, and I was absent from home - he took matters into his own hands and paid it for me. When he was, much later, able to reach me I took care of my responsibilities to my "LTC". The Military takes care of their own and as-far-as I am concern whether I outrank you or not, I admire and respect the Rank of Service rendered.

Response by Cpl Scott McCarroll made Jan 4 at 2018 5:17 PM

Cpl Scott McCarroll — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 17:17:57 -0500

When I was going to C&E Schools at 29 Palms I was a PFC and walking to class and was going past the commissary when I was asked (told) by a woman to help her load her car. I knew she was an officer wife. I was late to class and when the Gunny asked me why I was late, I told him and as far as I was concerned it was over. Later that week I was told to report to the base commander. When I got there I was told I would be next. I entered sweating bullets, and reporting as order. Turns out that the lady was his wife. He told me to stand at ease. Then he had her apologize, that she held no rank, and her wanting help did was in no way give her the power of rank. Apparently she had done this in the past, and I was the only one that had said anything about it, truthfully it didn't matter other than making me late to class.

Response by SFC Benjamin Linduff made Jan 5 at 2018 2:04 PM

SFC Benjamin Linduff — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 14:04:36 -0500

Guessing you are a soldier for life. Speaking as a Retired Sargent. I have not seen the rank card pulled but I have heard of it. When I was on active duty, I did have a Cpt's wife tell me she should be moved to the front of a line because her Husband was a Cpt. I smiled and said no.

Response by COL Bill Gross made Jan 5 at 2018 6:20 PM

COL Bill Gross — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 18:20:35 -0500

After I retied I went to work in a Dept of Army shop that did a lot of inter-agency work. I COL (Ret). on my Business Card. One of the FEMA bubbas I worked with asked why. I told him, that are times when it makes a difference, then times when it doesn't. I just have it there for the times it does.

Response by TSgt Michael Williamson made Jan 10 at 2018 2:45 PM

TSgt Michael Williamson — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:45:46 -0500

I find it hilarious. I was active, then Guard, in a field where promotions are scarce anyway, and running my own business so I couldn't be full time military anyway.

This clown says, "Sorry you only made it to E6. I was an E9."

How special for you. I'm now a nationally best-selling, award winning author with books in every bookstore in the English speaking world and many others. And you're just some guy who used to be That Guy.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Jan 13 at 2018 6:07 PM

LCpl James Robertson — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:07:10 -0500

Before retiring from the Police Department, a Major moved next door to a Colonel, the Colonel erected a large Flag pole in his front yard, each morning for a year the retired Major would leave out of his front door going to work the Colonel would be standing outside saluting the flag, if the Major were in a hurry he sometimes would forget to salute the flag, upon the Major returning from work a large argument would ensue, we finally had to talk the Colonel into leaving the Major alone.

Response by PVT Jason Kratzer made Jan 14 at 2018 2:13 AM

PVT Jason Kratzer — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 02:13:55 -0500

I’m as low as they get in rank.. shit happens I’m 70% disabled now. I’ll respect the rank, but the person needs to be respected as well. If you act like a POS no matter your rank then I lose respect. With me personally you’ll get respect out of the box until you give me a reason to no longer respect you.

Response by MAJ John Collins made Jan 14 at 2018 8:37 PM

MAJ John Collins — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:37:54 -0500

I'm retired, I work in other areas. My rank is "call me John"
Not so insecure.

Response by 1LT Leonard Edwards made Jan 15 at 2018 1:05 PM

1LT Leonard Edwards — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:05:15 -0500

I was a Platoon leader in Vietnam. Several years ago my Plt Sgt drove from California to NC to visit with me for 3 days. I called him Roy and he called me Leonard. That night I told my wife I was uncomfortable calling him Roy. I'll ask him tomorrow if I can call him Sgt Barton. The next morning at breakfast before I could ask him, he said, "I do not feel right calling you Leonard, is it ok if I call you Lt Edwards?" I said " Fine, if I can call you Sgt Barton". We had a great 3 days.

Response by PO1 Bill Adams made Jan 15 at 2018 5:35 PM

PO1 Bill Adams — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:35:13 -0500

To the original question, because it's ingrained and it's simple respect . Respect is a proper thing civilian or military. It's also a thing that seems to be disappearing in our society.

I correspond with several officers I served with. I still call them Mr. or Capt. At least until they ask me to call them something else.

Chiefs I served with I call Chief. what gets confusing sometimes is, I served with them when they were chiefs, later they became Master Chiefs, But I still automatically call them Chief.

To the situation, respect goes both ways, A former senior officer should be respectful of a former junior enlisted.

And spouses have no rank, Never did. But you'd be stupid to be disrespectful of your CO's spouse. :)

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made Jan 17 at 2018 9:25 AM

Sgt Tee Organ — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:25:15 -0500

This is so ignorant. If people are that damn trivial.... You don't need them around.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2018 1:30 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 13:30:46 -0500

While I agree that there are few if any circumstances I am aware of where rank after retirement should matter, I wouldn't completely throw deference for rank overboard in a social settings while on AD. There are some scenarios where I can see it as prudent for spouses of AD (or even the recently retired) to flock toward birds of a feather. I had a neighbor- civilian- who was married to a junior Sailor and she was routinely upset with his working hours. She would pretty routinely ask my husband and I-- both mid-grade officers-- to intervene at our level with her husband's command... We never did, although I did shoot the DH (my rank equivalent in her husband's chain of command) a head's up e-mail as to what she was stirring up just in case she had more luck with someone else. Too much familiarity across too much of a rank disparity rarely if ever leads to anything good. While maintaining similar ranked social circles is something I would encourage, the type of snobbery described should never be displayed or considered acceptable.

Response by MSgt Paul Freed made Jan 21 at 2018 8:23 PM

MSgt Paul Freed — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 20:23:35 -0500

A spouse has no rank. She or he is a spouse. I am reminded of a Wing Commander who was having a problem with officers spouses bullying enlisted spouses at the commissary and BX and other places on base. He had the Officer's Wives Club meet with him. He asked them to organize themselves by rank. They dutifully organized themselves from LT. Col. Down to first Lt. The Wing Commander then proceeded to tell them that they had NO rank, that they were all dependents, and if they continued to try and give the enlisted wives a hard time they would answer to him and their husbands would be held accountable for their bad behavior. Needless to say, after he reiterated this to everyone on his base through a base wide e-mail the stupid shit stopped.,

Response by PO1 Chad Alcock made Jan 22 at 2018 11:20 AM

PO1 Chad Alcock — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:20:52 -0500

I refuse to call any veteran by their rank. We served, most have honorable discharges, but in most cases your rank doesn't make a damned bit of difference when you get out of the military. More than few times I've had people come talk to me with the "I out rank you" attitude. It rarely lasts past the first meeting when they find out that attitude won't get you very far in the "real world." Move on people, make a life for yourself outside of the military.

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Jan 24 at 2018 1:25 PM

SSG Brian Carpenter — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:25:41 -0500

I agree Sir(that's simply out of respect). I may identify as a SSG but I also use first names after I identify as a Veteran

Response by PO1 George Gouker made Jan 25 at 2018 4:22 AM

PO1 George Gouker — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 04:22:03 -0500

Playing The Rank card Is just like the stuck up cheerleaders in high school or college. Unless you are part of "their" clique you are an outsider and thereby not welcome or considered like you have the plague. I consider this to be someone who has an identity problem. I feel you are better off not knowing someone like that?

Response by MSgt Walter Thomason made Jan 26 at 2018 4:35 AM

MSgt Walter Thomason — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:35:05 -0500

I think the basic problem is the false impression that the wife wears the rank of her husband. I can't recall how many times I reminded a military wife, "Ma'am, you don't have the rank, he does." I see it as another form of bigotry where someone feels they are better than others because of race, gender, wealth, etc. or in this case rank. As others have already said, rank is earned and with tradition, there are privileges that go with that rank to those who earn it. The only caveat to that are the fast burners, especially those that brag that they learned how to, "play the game." There are those that talk a good game and those that made the effort to learn the position.

Outside of duty, my experience is that the rank comes off unless there is a situation and then, Officer/NCO takes on the rank. However, in the retirement community, it is simply tradition. I've never had anyone pull rank. If I served under the officer, it is by habit because of the respect that person earned when I served under him or her while active duty. Other than that, we are civilians who had the honor and privilege to serve this nation.

Response by SSG Emanuel Alvarez made Jan 26 at 2018 7:30 PM

SSG Emanuel Alvarez — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:30:11 -0500

FRG wife drama bud. Some of these ladies wear the husbands rank just because. These self imposed "so called leaders" need to ruck a few hundred miles before they come at my wife with that mess. Rank, no rank, active, retired or whatever you want, my wife will knock that third point of contact on the ground if any lady comes at her with that mess.

Response by SGT James Clark made Jan 28 at 2018 11:27 AM

SGT James Clark — Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:27:10 -0500

I believe it is the spouses that like to throw the rank around. I believe we honor the rank of the person when its time to play the game.But there are some out there that always look down on the lower ranks which is bullshit. We are all green and we are all family.Some of us didn't ride daddy's shirttail like some of the people that I served with.You give respect to get respect is the way I look at it.

Response by 1SG Klayton W. Hayes made Jan 29 at 2018 4:55 AM

1SG Klayton W. Hayes — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 04:55:40 -0500

“Diamonds are Trump” Taking care of Service members and their families is in our blood. Helping fellow veterans who are overwelmed by the VA a natural extension of being a “Top”.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Jan 29 at 2018 5:26 AM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 05:26:53 -0500

Good topic! There's a nuance to it, I think. I was enlisted first, then became an officer through OCS, and then retired as a major in the Army Reserve. Rank recognition is drilled into a private and a second lieutenant's lexicon. So, I agree that on first blush the old habits come out. I usually refer to those LTC and above as "Sir," or "Ma'am" on RP initially. If we go more than one round I tend to drop it. It's respectful, I think. And after all, this is a military oriented website. Either way is fine with me. Not too many people I know refer to me as "Major" anyway! Whatever makes someone feel comfortable, you can respectfully call me pretty much anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner! Hooah!

Response by CPL Curtis Mcavoy made Jan 29 at 2018 9:07 AM

CPL Curtis Mcavoy — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 09:07:14 -0500

while standing guard at a gate in germany a battalion commander's wife came through several times and demanded we salute her because she was the battalion commander's wife. my battle buddy and i respectfully refused....mam, you are not in the military, and we are only required to salute officers that ARE in the military, not their wives, children, cousins, uncles, etc. she must have gone home and told her husband and he must have put her in her place because we never heard from him about the incident and she never asked again for us to salute her. anyway to answer the question. i will give a doctor that respect after they retire but i absolutely refuse to call you by a rank which you no longer hold captain, major, colonel, etc. after you get out, or retire from the military, and i stand in agreement with others who say that those who demand this have small penis syndrome or just a lack of self security...i call everybody sir or mam from the lowly cashier at the convenience store to those who have held position....seriously if you think people ought to salute you, or call you by rank after you get out or retire you got issues....

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2018 10:56 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 10:56:41 -0500

When people play the rank card as you describe, one must consider the source. Among the retiree community I consider the rank someone earned as symbol of his or her accomplishments while serving our nation. When I address someone by their rank I do it as a sign of respect. As to my own rank I don't wear it on my sleeves. I know that I am a Colonel and it really doesn't matter to me if others know it. The common bond of all military is the uniforms of our nation's armed forces. I respect that fact first. All other things flow from that. Not liking someone because they (or their spouse) is lower in rank displays ignorance. Again consider the source or if you are in a position to educate, do so.

If a retiree prefers not to be called by his or her rank and expresses that to me I would honor their wishes.

Response by 1SG Klayton W. Hayes made Jan 29 at 2018 11:31 AM

1SG Klayton W. Hayes — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 11:31:54 -0500

In defense of Old Retired Soldiers out there: 1. We have not renounced our oath of enlistment. 2. Our pay as in my case is 55% of a E-8 still on active duty. 3. My ID Card and DD FM 214 reflect my rank as First Sergeant, Retired. 4. There are appropriate times in puplic where we still serve and set the example in our bearing to one another. 5. Finally I can think of no better mentors for our youth if we take the time to be around them.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Jan 29 at 2018 3:53 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 15:53:54 -0500

Wives are the worse at it. I was Base Security at NAS Key West, DOD Police when they put us in Civilian uniforms so we would like like Key West Police. and Officers Wives would try and push their husbands ranks when we would pull tem for a traffic violation, I cannot tell you how many times I would hand them a citation and tell them "Sister you don't wear a rank your husband does and you might have gotten off with a warning if you had remembered that" I never had a Female Officer try and push her rank just wives of Male Officers. Every Female Officer I have ever served with or had an encounter with has been a top flight professional!

Response by SN Jay Perry made Jan 29 at 2018 5:52 PM

SN Jay Perry — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:52:54 -0500

My father is a retired two star (and he is very aware of the respect he deserved/earned while active. He KNOWS he is retired and is scrupulously polite, BUT cross him and you will not like the results), as is my brother (retired an O-5). Both of them have encountered some not so respectful service members on base (mostly I am just talking about simple basic courtesy). They do not push their FORMER ranks. I have encountered a lot of retired types on bases (seems to be a lot of senior enlisted types mostly), who still think they are a senior Chief or master Chief, their wives' will push this too.

Funny thing is we nearly got a ticket at Sand Point (outside of Seattle), giving people an unsecured (no seatbelts)ride, in his pickup bed. He knew the MP's would object if we drove through the gate with the people in the back so he dropped just at the end of the drive (outside the post) , he figured at 25mph on base what was the harm. They walked though, and we parked around the corner, they climbed in and we nearly made it to their organization picnic (which they graciously invited us to) when we found a roving MP. He was professional and polite at all times, did not hassle the people, let them go. He was getting his ticket book when he saw the two star sticker on the windshield and wrote a warning instead, apologized for bothering the Admiral and drove off. We finished our PX Nursery/Greenhouse visit and were leaving the base when my father stopped at the gate shack to ASK for his ticket and to compliment the PO of the watch on his MP's and wanted his ticket!

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Jan 29 at 2018 10:03 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 22:03:43 -0500

When finishing my degree I had a professor enter on the first day of class and say, "My title is Dr. XXX XXXXXX; I am one of 5 people in the country with a doctorate in my specialty. My name is XXX, and that's how I want to be addressed." From that point on, while I may have used military rank to address someone, I never let the same or any other title intimidate me, and neither did my wife. Once we retire that rank is no longer a part of who we are or what we do (instructing jobs aside, especially JROTC); most, or at least many, of us embark on completely new careers and that then becomes our identity. It has been my experience that the wives of higher ranking retired personnel tend to hold onto the prestige of rank longer than most others.

Response by SSG John M Jacobson Sr made Feb 2 at 2018 7:57 AM

SSG John M Jacobson Sr — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 07:57:41 -0500

I enlisted as an E-1 and retired as an E-6. Now I have a friend that keeps referring to himself as SGM, I just call him Mike. His response was once a Sargent Major always a Sargent Major. My response was you were never my Sargent Major, and you will always be just Mike to me. Now I agree with the Major who said that you need to get over yourself, We are both retired and no longer in the Army, so rank no longer applies. If you want to use rank to identify who you are, then I told him my rank is GRANDPA, and that is all that matters to me now. I loved my time in the military, but my family is what I am all about now. Thank You For Your Time. And Welcome Home Brothers and Sisters.

Response by SGT Bob Chalmers Jr made Feb 2 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT Bob Chalmers Jr — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 17:34:55 -0500

I noticed, when I was active duty in the 1980's, that a lot of officer's wives, especially in the company and field grades, seemed to think that their husband's rank is also THEIR rank, and they tend to think that they're entitled to the same military courtesies.

Response by MSG Charles Turner made Feb 6 at 2018 2:24 PM

MSG Charles Turner — Tue, 06 Feb 2018 14:24:52 -0500

I dont disrespect anyone for their SERVICE, PERIOD! I may show Some Personal Higher Level of respect to someone.. but that is based Upon His/Her actions.

~ole Sarge~

Response by SGT Jason Ellenburg made Feb 16 at 2018 10:30 AM

SGT Jason Ellenburg — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:30:53 -0500

I understand the rank thing. I usually addressed new soldiers I met by their rank until I got to know them, then I actually used their names (mostly last names except for a few close friends). Most soldiers referred to me by my rank until they got to know me.

In my supply room, my soldiers never called me Sergeant. They called me "boss." Likewise, I normally referred to them as my minions (they actually got me little minions figures that they painted the overalls camo-like). It was all informal because we worked so closely together. Well, unless they messed up.

After the service, I still refer to my first Supply Daddy as "boss" whenever I talk to him. Likewise, I still refer to my friend (who took over after I left) as minion. Otherwise, I refer to people by name. Last time someone tried playing the "rank card" on me, I laughed in his face and saluted him in the low-ready (i.e. salute movement at crotch height).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 3:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 15:00:31 -0500

I am in several fraternal organizations with a MG(RET). He freely admits there are some things that are below his rank. I a SFC find darn few things "below my rank".

Response by CW5 John M. made Feb 19 at 2018 3:18 AM

CW5 John M. — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 03:18:29 -0500

As a Warrant, I would say this was less of an issue for most of my career. I retired in 1998. It was even more “relaxed” in the hooch area during my year in Vietnam. The “early years” I spent in the National Guard were pretty “relaxed”, but it became more of an issue when we visited Active-duty bases back then. I could tell a few stories! Some Active components didn’t know what to make of all the “grey headed” SGTs, WO, RLO walking around their “turf” with slightly relaxed - “everything”. Of course it’s likely less a problem today with all the deployments and force make-up mix.

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Feb 20 at 2018 7:38 AM

SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:38:05 -0500

Sir,
I have heard stories about this sort of things going on in places like PX/BX or the Commissary which is one of the reasons why I chose to live outside the base or post.

Response by SSG Guy Gould made Feb 21 at 2018 5:24 PM

SSG Guy Gould — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:24:50 -0500

Nothing pisses me off more than dependent spouses using their significant others earned military rank as their own. They didn’t earn a damned thing. They don’t have rank nor do they have provilege. Veterans, such as myself, no longer have the responsibility of being in charge of anything. In some cases it is nice to extend some courtesies to those of exceptional achievement but many of the veterans I know regardless of their active duty rank walk around calling each other by their first names whether they were Generals or Privates.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 8 at 2018 10:45 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Thu, 08 Mar 2018 22:45:42 -0500

As the Military has a very formal socio-economic structure which is enforced by ranks that active Service Members wear on their uniform, its hard for some to break certain habits. I, for one, don't care to call retired senior officers and NCOs by their first names because I respect the rank the have held and I like some degree of formality. Others might think things like "all senior NCOs are high on themselves" or "officers just want people to lick their boots". Just because someone has left the service that doesn't mean they've lost the habits and attitudes they developed in service.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2018 5:45 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 05:45:52 -0500

I think that dependents forget that they have no rank because they did not serve in the armed forces. Just because your spouse is or was a service member does not mean as a civilian dependent you automatically receive the same respect that the rank has. I repeat you are not a service member!!! The fact that a spouse is rude to a service members spouse based off the rank of that individual is absolutely ridiculous. This woman should be ashamed that she feels so self entitled that she can be rude or cruel to someone because of this.

Response by SGT Michael Schmiesing made Mar 11 at 2018 9:44 PM

SGT Michael Schmiesing — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 21:44:14 -0400

No one has played the rank card on me. I was a very professional soldier. No one thought I didn't deserve the rank I had. I have been put in situation where I had to tell CSM of Division or 3 star General no, or say the things that others said I was crazy. But in my experience with others who out rank me. Is simple ai went on doing my mission until I was ordered to do it differently. Example: A Full Bird asked me over the phone to do something. I stated that I would not do it. At that point he ordered me to report. I made a few copies and reported. I was locked up at attention, made to answer for refusing his order. I handed him my copies I highlighted parts for him. I simply stated that it was up to him to follow the UCMJ. BUT if ordered to I would do so. Then go to the Judge Staff officer, explain it to them in order to be cleared of any wrong doing. I was asked why I would do that. I stated at best it was wrong, or even against the UCMJ he would face charges. It took a few months until he was forced to be in the same area as me. He did thank me for keeping him out of real bunch of problems, even he kept his rank and title.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 19 at 2018 1:13 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:13:26 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Sir, First, you look like Walter White from Breaking Bad. Second, this is very sad and childish. I treat all persons regardless of rank or spousal status with the utmost respect because their humans. That's the golden rule.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 4:10 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:10:52 -0400

I'm near 60 now. Almost everyone I meet is younger than me. If I hear a first name I'm using it(EEO). If they get offended, not a problem to me. I didn't know them 10 minutes ago and at my age in 10 minutes I will have forgotten them.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 19 at 2018 5:24 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:24:24 -0400

Colin Powell told a room full of Brigadier Generals that some will not get promoted because the wife acts like royalty.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 7:05 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:05:50 -0400

Sense of superiority.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 5:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:55:04 -0400

COL Burroughs and RP members,

As the son of a retired CW4 and a Soldier that has participated in several hundred military funerals, I have learned that rank matters less than accomplishments while in service. Most of the WWII vets that I was privileged to honor at their funerals were E4 and below. Most of these veterans did a heck of a lot more than the vast majority of leadership of units in which I was a member.
FYSA, out of respect and obedience to Army regs, I do recognize veterans by rank.

Response by LTC Zachary Hubbard made Mar 20 at 2018 6:08 PM

LTC Zachary Hubbard — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 18:08:26 -0400

I attribute it to ego and ignorance. I checked my rank at the door the day I retired. I loved the Army and would do it again all over, but the Army neither my life nor my identity. Family and God are my life and my identity.

Response by PO1 Mike Dean made Mar 20 at 2018 6:18 PM

PO1 Mike Dean — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 18:18:45 -0400

Plainly and simply, I refer to rank strictly as a sign of respect for the achievements that person has achieved. What you think of them personally may be another matter. But I find in general that those who achieve high goals are genuinely personable and return the respect to others. I won't go into the genetic disposition of wives because it's most likely to get me into trouble.

Response by CDR Morris Stephens made Mar 20 at 2018 10:09 PM

CDR Morris Stephens — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:09:48 -0400

That speaks very poorly of the major's wife, and to some extent of the major, assuming he is aware of it. I enlisted in the Coast Guard, and was fortunate enough to go to OCS and earn a commission. Retired after 23 years as an 0-5. My wife never knew the difference between enlisted and officer, she treated everyone the same. I am very proud that she never wore my rank. Shame on those who play the rank game.

Response by Abe Dean made Mar 21 at 2018 3:44 AM

Abe Dean — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 03:44:57 -0400

I never saw the hassle in line thing before, firsthand. The only rule I knew when growing up, was that someone in uniform got first dibs in the line at the NEX, at least the one in Algiers then. But that made sense; you could get any matter of thing outside of groceries on the fly, and it may come up for any number of reasons. But at the Commissary? It seems unthinkable, not to deny what actually happens, but it seems like such a petty mindset, all the same.

Response by PO2 Charles Fanning made Apr 7 at 2018 9:04 PM

PO2 Charles Fanning — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 21:04:15 -0400

From when I first entered boot camp, it was pounded into your head about rank. when I got into the fleet, rank did not seem as important but it was still there. The biggest thing I remember I was always told about spouses was she was not issued in your seabag. You naturally gave the officers wives some deference, but that was more to make sure it did not come back to haunt you later. When I got out, the only facture rank plaies in meeting others is as an identifier to their service history. All that being said, no matter were you go, former or currently active, civilians that have never served. There are people out there that thrive on what they see as an elevation above others. You have two or three ways to handle it and you have to decide the best way for the situation. Me 99% of the time I ignore it.

Response by Angela Johnson made Apr 10 at 2018 12:56 PM

Angela Johnson — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 12:56:44 -0400

The Majors wife is an idiot. I am a lowely "worker bee". Mom of soldiers and I have never had a wife, mom or girlfriend, husband, father or boyfriend treat me badly. We all know we have to pull together to make it. Your wife is in my prayers!

Response by SCPO John Millar made Apr 15 at 2018 5:16 PM

SCPO John Millar — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 17:16:38 -0400

The Majors wife has a problem, she ignorant to use her husbands rank, she has earned nothing but being a dependent she’s no different than any other wife

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Apr 15 at 2018 9:40 PM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:40:49 -0400

I think this Marine Major's spouse has missed the boat. The rank is her husband's and not hers. Can not understand why that should even enter into her relationship with your wife, other than jealousy. I often feel the same way about civilian titles also. I was a SSG in the United States Army, I am a Police Chief. Neither one truly defines who or what I am only the position that I occupied in an organization. we should all respect one another for the contributions we make to society and humanity.

Response by MSG Bob Leonard made Apr 15 at 2018 10:38 PM

MSG Bob Leonard — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 22:38:33 -0400

In 1985 when I was on recruiting duty I lived on Fort Missoula, in Missoula, MT. This was a small reserve base and there were only 7 families living on base. Fort Missoula was commanded by LCDR Bob Mestrez a Navy officer with an Army Sergeant Major as his senior enlisted advisor. The base served a Navy Reserve ship, an Army Reserve Battalion, a bunch of civilian agencies from BLM, Forest Service, and who knows what else. Also, there was a MTARNG. maintenance facility and Armor Battalion. Anyway, occasionally we had social engagements that required us to get together after duty hours. Bob's policy was that during these "parties " we would address each other by our first names and forego ranks or titles (e.g. Dr for the PhDs in the crowd ) with the exception of the CSM. He said that with 27 years in the Infantry and multiple combat tours in Vietnam he deserved the respect. Sound policy from a good commander.

Response by 1SG Paul Beal made Apr 15 at 2018 10:43 PM

1SG Paul Beal — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 22:43:17 -0400

Spouses have no rank unless they’re in the military. Period! The general’s spouse and the privare’s spouse are both civilians.

Response by SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman made Apr 20 at 2018 1:50 AM

SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 01:50:34 -0400

I must be missing something. You're a bird colonel and your wife is taking guff from a wife whose husband is a major in the Marines? And I assume, this is in retirement?

Response by Sgt John Earley made Apr 22 at 2018 6:57 PM

Sgt John Earley — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:57:51 -0400

I really didn't care who you were, to me you are human being just like myself, if you didn't like the way i address you, which is always by your first name than you have no reason to talk to me, I can care less.
Even while I was in, maybe the first time I'll salute you or say sir, but mostly we were buds, I had it good while I was in. I was more like Gomer Pyle......lol, but with my owe Style....

Response by LTC William Kruse made Apr 23 at 2018 8:15 AM

LTC William Kruse — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 08:15:02 -0400

Identifying a fellow Veteran by their rank is an act of respect "any" time it is done. If a relationship develops as time goes on there is nothing wrong with also using first names. "Playing" the Rank card is never acceptable, however, referring to a fellow Veterans rank "is" a sign of respect. One thing the military taught me was to respect your fellow soldier no matter what the rank. That should not change when you leave the service or retire.

Response by PO1 Dinah Goodman made Apr 30 at 2018 5:29 PM

PO1 Dinah Goodman — Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:29:51 -0400

If I knew the service member before and they outranked me, it is difficult to leave rank out. Over the years, I now address retiress by first name if we are FB friends. That being said, a spouse us not a service member and, akthough many like to wear their husband's rank, I do not consider them anything more than a civilian. I will respect them as a person, but they hold no special powers.

Response by SSG Harry Jr. Peters made May 2 at 2018 4:12 AM

SSG Harry Jr. Peters — Wed, 02 May 2018 04:12:53 -0400

First off let me start by saying while serving yes I agree with addressing individuals by rank but what upsets me is you hear about a spouse trying to be the rank of what there spouse is and never served a day in their life. As far as once you retire or ets I feel the rank should be dropped and use the individuals first name

Response by SPC Joe Davenport made May 2 at 2018 9:31 PM

SPC Joe Davenport — Wed, 02 May 2018 21:31:56 -0400

You will find the same thing in the civilian world. The thing to note is that it seems to be worse among those "in the middle" (you don't get much more in the middle than a major or LTC now do you? I have 30 years working in the public sector and often (not always) the behavior fades as supervisors move up the ladder. I am at a major university in food services. I am also a steward and officer in our union local and I have seen it first hand. The 'Do You Know Who I Am? approach to all of life.

Response by 1LT Cornelius Van Milligen made May 5 at 2018 1:42 AM

1LT Cornelius Van Milligen — Sat, 05 May 2018 01:42:38 -0400

It has been my experience that wives were their husbands' rank very prominently.

Response by MSgt Walter Clack made May 8 at 2018 8:54 AM

MSgt Walter Clack — Tue, 08 May 2018 08:54:44 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I feel certain that you will receive a wide variety of comments on this topic. Can only express my personal view/opinion. Out of respect, like yourself, I will always begin by using individuals rank and last name. This is done more out of respect than anything else. If we progress to become friends will transition to first name. UNLESS, they attempt to PLAY the rank card. Simply put, don't play that game. Even after being retired for over 20 years I still feel honored and humbled when the gate guard states have a good day Master Sergeant. However, there is no regulation that requires them to do so nor is there a regulation that requires me to respond with "You as well Petty Officer, Chief, etc" yet I do. In this life I have found that most often the things we do are reciprocal. When we are respectful and kind to others, they are most often that way towards us. We hear things like what goes around comes around, others state it is karma. Please allow me to quote a good book, "We reap what we sow." Have a blessed day one and all.

Response by CPO Lou Oliver made May 9 at 2018 3:18 PM

CPO Lou Oliver — Wed, 09 May 2018 15:18:15 -0400

Dependents do not have rank! Furthermore, if the dependents are in the PX or any other place where they pay for the services rendered, a dollar paid by an enlisted dependent has the same value as a dollar tendered by an officer or his dependent. If you do not believe me, try to pull the rank BS on my wife in the commissary check out line, and see how she dresses you up one side and down the other. If you have seen the movie Full Metal Jacket, just think of her as the DI and you as the POS new recruit

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:34:43 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:34:49 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:34:51 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:34:51 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:34:57 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:34 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:34:58 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:35 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:35:00 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:35 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:35:01 -0400

respect

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 9 at 2018 5:35 PM

SGT George Duncan — Wed, 09 May 2018 17:35:01 -0400

respect

Response by SGT Joseph Alanzo made May 17 at 2018 7:51 PM

SGT Joseph Alanzo — Thu, 17 May 2018 19:51:20 -0400

IT IS THE SAME AS OF SOME ONE IS OUT OF GOV.OFICE

Response by SSG Rick Burton made May 18 at 2018 8:56 AM

SSG Rick Burton — Fri, 18 May 2018 08:56:12 -0400

I will always respect everybody who served and address them by their rank and name. Everyone earned that respect when they stepped up, walked into a recruiting office, passed the ASVAB, went to MEPS, picked their job(MOS), signed a contract, and raised their right hand while swearing an oath to the Constitution!
To me, it doesn’t matter what branch anyone joined or job anyone did or does! We are on big family of brothers and sisters that keeps this country free!
When I was still an in-patient at the VA Hospital, the other patients would try to say, “we are not part of the family, with Special Operations. We don’t do what y’all do.” My answer was always the above and also that everyone supports each other’s jobs in every branch. So yes we are all a family! If you didn’t die, then God didn’t call you up yet! They all finally accepted that we were all family and started listening to the doctors!
I’ve been surviving for 6 years now from dying and surviving the worst TBI ever died and survived in medical history (98.9%). All together in my just over 19 year career I died and survived 17 times from explosions and the TBI.
Everyone will get respect from me, including Rank, until you tell me just to call you by your name.
Spouses you don’t have the rank. Mine does because she is on Active duty and out ranks me!

Response by CSM Tee Oden made May 21 at 2018 3:17 PM

CSM Tee Oden — Mon, 21 May 2018 15:17:27 -0400

It appears to me that some people are so insecure that they have to push a rank or any other title they believe they have. By doing so, the belief is to receive some sort of priviledge they may or may not be entitled to. Get a life and show honor to all veterans past or present.

Response by PO3 Kevin DeLong made May 26 at 2018 10:33 PM

PO3 Kevin DeLong — Sat, 26 May 2018 22:33:31 -0400

I knew a Marine who served in three wars. WW2, Korea and Vietnam. He joined the Marines the day after he graduated High School in June of 1942. He proudly served his country for thirty years retiring in 1972. He was proud to be known as Sargent Major Mike for the rest of his life. He never considered it anything other than a badge of honor.

Response by TSgt J.L. Brown Jr made May 27 at 2018 8:23 PM

TSgt J.L. Brown Jr — Sun, 27 May 2018 20:23:56 -0400

I guess I am lucky, never had to deal with that crap. My wife never ever complained to me about any thing like this. As for rank and names, I might have been forced to retire, but my oath of enlistment, I am ready and willing to drop anything if the Air Force, or my country ever needs me. Respect for those over me, does not end just because I retired. My last Chief was one of the best ive had to work for, its coming up on 20 yrs since I have retired, but when I call him, he's Chief because he earned that respect from me. For those that worked for me, I hope they feel the same.

Response by Jim Edwards made Jun 1 at 2018 9:54 AM

Jim Edwards — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 09:54:29 -0400

The simple truth of the matter is the major's wife is a snob. In all likelihood, an ill bred snob. My late father in law was an NCO assigned to an embassy as a member of military attache' attached to the post in Bolivia and also Costa Rica back (circa 1960). He also happened to be an exceptional bridge player. He had applied himself from a share cropper's son to cavalry enlisted man and rose to his humble rank on an 8th grade education. But he was routinely requested to dine with and socialize w/ the wives and rank due to his proficiency and manner. Said all that to say Mrs.Major needs to look in the mirror and remember where she came from rather than look down her nose upon others. It's a hard fall from the perch when you were put there by the efforts of someone else. She didn't do the duty so she doesn't deserve the honor of rank. It's earned (sometimes) and she is just hanging on to the jacket tails.

Response by MAJ David E. Finley made Jun 1 at 2018 10:05 AM

MAJ David E. Finley — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:05:03 -0400

My answer goes back to the Vietnam period. An Army Colonel's (06) wife was extolling her "authority" as the same as the Colonel's. She was appropriately put in her place by the Colonel. Paraphrasing his comment to her, "You are not a Colonel, I am. Please be quiet." That battle had been brewing for years.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jun 3 at 2018 12:41 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:41:29 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner, I think there may be some confusion here when you address a persons rank you are showing respect for that rank and when officers address Privates and Spc's by their rank. REspect for the individual is a conditional thing that is divorced from rank. Off Base, not on Duty and out of uniform, I think how one addresses a person of senior rank would depends on the relationship you have with that person.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Jun 4 at 2018 7:12 PM

SSG Dave Rogers — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 19:12:11 -0400

As commander for my VFW, whenever a person tries that rank pulling on me I remind them that we are no longer on active duty and rank means nothing, we are all equal veterans. It is the same with medals, I have people say to me, well I got a MSM or a they only got a AAM, and I say, that info and 3.00 will get you a cup of coffee. Don't get me wrong, I have respect for those that got a purple heart or bronze star, but no more than I have respect for those that were never put in that situation. I treat all veterans the same.

Response by CPT Carlos Ribadeneira made Jun 6 at 2018 1:32 AM

CPT Carlos Ribadeneira — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 01:32:18 -0400

As a PFC, while on active duty, my ex-wife was the BFF of a Colonel's wife. She never pull rank

Response by CPT Carlos Ribadeneira made Jun 6 at 2018 1:38 AM

CPT Carlos Ribadeneira — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 01:38:15 -0400

Sorry, my fat fingers hit the send button. As I was saying, this lady never lulled rank on my ex. Be was a Brigade Commander, and he would counsel me on military life, and asked me not to adddess him by his rank anytime we visited them. He was one of the best officers I have ever met.

Response by CPT Carlos Ribadeneira made Jun 6 at 2018 1:47 AM

CPT Carlos Ribadeneira — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 01:47:21 -0400

When out of uniform, I always introduced my self by my first name. In civilian life, I also did the same. Some of my colleagues always put their title after their name. After I retired, I attended a retiree association meeting, and people were still introducing themselves with the position they retired as. When my turn came, I said my name, and the office I retired from - that's all. Someone asked what I did, and my response was "all kinds of things." Needless to say, that was the first, and last time I attended that meeting.

Response by CMDCM John Holland made Jun 16 at 2018 8:06 AM

CMDCM John Holland — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 08:06:18 -0400

Well put. Always interesting to see how individuals introduce themselves. A lot of times I hear individuals “lead off” with their rank. I served 30-years and retired as a Masterchief Intelligence Specialist (ISCM) and while proud of my accomplishments still introduce myself as John Holland.
Although retired, and past 70-years of age, I continue to sport a “high and tight” hair style and that as much as anything will always identify me as a retired service member. Molon labe

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2018 10:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:56:51 -0400

I find it annoying when people use "retied" like it's some sort of super rank. It usually goes, "I'm a retired Sergeant Major, so you should...." Thanks for your service, but retired is not a rank.
As far as spouses pulling rank, that is worse than wearing your husband's PT shirt to the commissary with pajama pants. Sure, families also serve and all, but you don't inherit your husband's rank. The funniest one is when a Specialist's wife tries to pull rank though.

Response by SSG Skylur Britz made Jun 21 at 2018 12:01 PM

SSG Skylur Britz — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:01:47 -0400

It's always funny that the ones who don't care what you address them as are the ones who you usually address by their former rank, there is a CSM that I still refer to as CSM because it feels awkward to me otherwise, and the ones who want to be addressed as their former rank are the ones you usually address as a less pleasing honorific, like asshole.

Response by WO1 Mike Dwyer made Jun 22 at 2018 12:38 PM

WO1 Mike Dwyer — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:38:53 -0400

I don't totally agree with the PhD analogy. I prefer to be addressed as Mike, but if you're going to get all formal on me as and insist on titles, do not address me as Mr. It took me 16 years to finish my Doctor of Education degree (mostly through procrastination) and you can call me doctor.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Jun 23 at 2018 11:56 AM

PO2 John Driskill — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:56:37 -0400

I remember when I was a police officer years ago, I arrested a retired Navy Captain. He insisted on being called Capt. Well Capt., you are going to jail for domestic violence.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jun 24 at 2018 6:02 PM

SSG Brian MacBain — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 18:02:06 -0400

When I was active and I still do hate this is that at PX/BX where there are reserves spots for General Officers and CSM's that the spouse that is not in the service, holds no rank will park there. I wish the post only gives out one (general rank/CSM sticker) for one vehicle only. As for the Major's wife acting that way, my wife would put her in her place. My wife and his wife holds no rank.

Response by CWO2 Bill Kerr made Jun 26 at 2018 10:08 PM

CWO2 Bill Kerr — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 22:08:54 -0400

First. A spouse doesn’t wear the rank of their spouse. Incidents like this should brought up through the chain of command. If it were me I’d go to someone above Major who could call Major so and so command to inform the Major rein his spouse in. Retired, I call the CG’s office and or write a write a letter to the person’s command if I knew.

Outside of that, I address active and military by their rank. They earned it. If I see someone at the airport or such I may say “Hey Marine, Soldier, Sailior. Especially if they are of a lower rank. I want to shoot the bull a little with them. See what they do, where they’re headed. Can I buy them a drink depending on age. I want them to know I was a young person one time headed off to a new place. That I appreciate them. If I see and I have called out inappropriate behavior even as a retiree. The latter I will use rank.

Nothing changes with those who don’t get their spouse is a whatever rank they’re not! Don’t let incidents like this go. Your wife stands by you and puts up with a lot. Stand up for her. Also, this doesn’t need to happen to anyone else’s wife.

Response by CPO Ed Williamson made Jul 2 at 2018 2:50 AM

CPO Ed Williamson — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:50:25 -0400

I retired in 1972 as a chief petty officer and have become friends with several retired officers. One was a retired commander and and we became close socially, hence we are on a first name basis. One, a retired Navy captain was also my skipper in a fighter squadron. I continued to address him as captain. Another retired captain had been my boss when I retired. We met by chance after we had both retired and became good friends. He addressed me by my first name and I addressed him as captain until he said, “Ed we are not in the Navy anymore, call me Henry”. I responded that I could not do that. He laughed and said then I will call you Chief. And that is how it still is. I am saying that it depends on the individuals and the circumstances.

When on active duty I found every officer and every officer’s wife, where my wife and I, on rare occurrences, were in the same social gathering, to be unfailingly polite and gracious both to myself and my wife, who was Japanese. In my relations with officers, while on active duty, I found that my attitude played a large role in how I was perceived and In the relationship that developed. Only once did I have a problem with a Navy officer and he was a fresh caught ensign who required a bit of training. I did have a problem with a Marine captain, assigned to a JAG office, who tried to browbeat me. I refused to buckle and a Navy commander overheard the “conversation “ and explained to the captain how the cow ate the cabbage.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jul 7 at 2018 9:31 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sat, 07 Jul 2018 21:31:15 -0400

I laugh at this shit. Living in San Antonio, TX, in surrounded by everyone from every branch. I was told by a retired E6 in the Army that I needed to stand at ease at the grocery store.. remember, I'm out of the Army because I couldn't stand for long periods anymore. I've had officers and their wives explain that I I to address them as Col Ret etc. Lmao... it's all what they know. They lived it for decades and their wives don't know anything different. Wives or spouses are the worst.

As a sign of respect, me being a retarted E4, I still do call folks out of respect, until they tell me, hey, I'm not in anymore...

Response by CW4 Robert C. made Jul 11 at 2018 10:27 AM

CW4 Robert C. — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:14 -0400

Sir,

It seems that some officers don't know how to control their spouses. As for using rank after retirement, there is a regulation that covers that, but I am with you, I don't need you to call me chief all the time, when I am no longer serving. Though I will always be thankful for my service and the rank to which I arose. The only thing that I do is in my signature block on my correspondence I usually put rank and in parenthesis (RET). Thanks it. But I also have enough discipline in me still where you are the retired COL and I am a retired CW4, you will always get my respect just because. That is I think some of the problem with people today. Good subject to discuss.

Response by SFC Leo McIntyre made Jul 11 at 2018 8:13 PM

SFC Leo McIntyre — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 20:13:38 -0400

When I meet someone who is retired military and they have on their civilian business card "COL, Ret." or whatever, I usually throw it away after I walk away! Once you retire, you are NO LONGER part of the military and unfortunately, the biggest violators are retired LTC's/COL's that got passed over, yet still seem to feel that it means something in the civilian world.
Now to the subject at hand, I've run into a few that feel they can still 'pull rank' and I usually respond with pulling my shirt collar out, looking down and say, "hmmm, I don't see any rank here and what I did in the military is really no business of yours." It usually shuts them up.

Response by SMSgt Jane B. made Jul 20 at 2018 11:40 AM

SMSgt Jane B. — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 11:40:13 -0400

I've often found that spouses tend to "wear the rank" and try to rise to some imagined glory based upon their spouse's rank. It always half-amused and half-infuriated me.

Response by SGT Ralph Martinez made Jul 20 at 2018 6:08 PM

SGT Ralph Martinez — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 18:08:27 -0400

I will address someone with their rank as a show of respect.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Jul 23 at 2018 7:16 AM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:16:32 -0400

Insecure individuals in retirement can play the rank card all they want on those uninformed individuals or those that do not like confrontation, just be ready for an earful when you bring that crap to a veteran who doesn't give a crap to your past military status and are now trying to force your way thru life stepping on the toes of other veterans..

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2018 7:48 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:48:08 -0400

Playing the rank card means they have achieved nothing else in their life and they are insecure. BUT ragging on people who use their degree as a title is basically the same thing as the ones that use their previous service... its compensating for your insecurity that you dont have a degree....

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made Jul 28 at 2018 8:06 PM

Cpl Bill Johnson — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 20:06:14 -0400

The military is no different than the rest of our society. No matter what you do, or where you go, you will find people that where their @$$es for a hat.

Ignore them as best you can, and drive on.

Response by CMSgt David Allen made Jul 29 at 2018 12:48 PM

CMSgt David Allen — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 12:48:14 -0400

Addressing a service member, vet or active duty, by their rank is, in my opinion, a sign of respect acknowledging their in-service rank. However, after separation from active duty, rank means diddly. Any vet attempting to “pull rank” on another is lame and a pathetic attempt to regain a sense of superiority they lost upon separation. As for spouses and family members, they make/made a significant contribution to the mission, but have absolutely no rank nor standing in that regard.

Response by GySgt Richard James made Aug 1 at 2018 4:26 PM

GySgt Richard James — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 16:26:51 -0400

I am a Marine Corps Retired GYSGT. My wife and children understand there are egotistical and arrogant Military personnel in the world. I shared this information with them in case they were confronted with spouses and/or children of higher rank: Be humble and know that we All put our pants or uniforms on the same way. Let/allow them their day in the sun, because one day they may have to say to that subordinate, “Thank You” for getting my husband or spouse through a difficult situation. (Life or Death).....Me myself, I made corrections on the spot. To those who fear “Challenges” with respect......Deal With It.....

Response by Sgt Arthur Grant made Aug 2 at 2018 2:56 PM

Sgt Arthur Grant — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 14:56:53 -0400

Was it really a rank issue that caused the dispute, was it inter-service rivalry, or was it something else?

I hesitate to explain to someone having achieved a higher rank than myself (ahem!), but it's really simple to me. Rank is an outward indication of personal achievements. I don't think it is exactly like the doctor/phd thing, that is a matter of labels. Both point to the same thing. A rank is something a person has achieved, and you don't forget that.

Remember the TV show "Married with Children"? Al Bundy would tell everyone he played high school football. That was his crowing achievement, but it was what the character achieved, and he never forgot it.

I don't believe, however, that the issue with the wives was precisely about rank, or at least not the service-member's. I am inclined to think it is more about THEIR social rank and perception of self-importance based on who they managed to marry.

"Look at me, I married a prince!"
"Nah, he's only a squire!"

Just my two cents worth. Semper Fi.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Aug 3 at 2018 12:04 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 00:04:29 -0400

Personally I don't even think about it much, though I am proud of the rank I attained, as well as the relatively short time it took me to get there. But otherwise I don't pay a heck of a lot of attention. There is a former USCG CPO in town, and when I run into him with his hate or CPOA pin on I call him Chief out or respect. There are a couple of officers I know and respect from my active duty days I still refer to as sir or by rank, but again it's my respect, not their demand.

Interestingly I see this more with civilians with a lot of education. There are areas near certain colleges in the area, I will not as an insurance agent bother with as it has been my observation that most of the people there are professors at the college and have the attitude that if you don't have at least a Phd, there is nothing you can tell them. I actually had one tell me to my face, "I have three Phds, what do you think you could possibly tell me?" I just picked up my folder, and said, "I have a license that certifies my expertise in insurance matters. Do you?" I then just walked out. People with that sort of attitude I don't need.

Response by Cpl Vic Eizenga made Aug 5 at 2018 3:09 PM

Cpl Vic Eizenga — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 15:09:56 -0400

My wife says " it is your glory not mine. Your rank, your ribbons, your service your honor. I just respect what you did.

Response by SSG James Phillips made Aug 8 at 2018 9:57 AM

SSG James Phillips — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:57:50 -0400

Well, I just had a situation where a Retired First Sergeant approached me (I am also a Retiree) and told me that he needed my job description, when I asked him what he needed my job description for he said because I said give it to me. He didn't proclaim his rank, but his actions were as if I was a subordinate Soldier and he was my First Sergeant.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Aug 13 at 2018 8:14 PM

SSG Rick Miller — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:14:50 -0400

When I was on a time duty, my name was Sergeant Miller. Once I retired, it went back to Rick. My wife, when meeting other spouses, would always introduce herself as Dawn, Sgt. Miller's wife. Never once did she use my rank to define who she was. She heard, on more than one occasion from another spouse "Do you know who my husband is?" Her answer was invariably, No, I don't, and I don't care. He has nothing to do with ......(whatever the situation or event). Ballsy broad, that wife of mine.

Response by MSgt Stephen Council made Aug 14 at 2018 9:25 AM

MSgt Stephen Council — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 09:25:13 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Let me be frank about this one. I work in the Missile Defense Agency as a government civilian. The fact that I am a retired SNCO has placed barriers in my career path post retirement. I actually competed for a job and won it but it was taken from me when the Army COL that I was hired to support found out I was a SNCO. He specifically said he wanted a former or retired officer in the position not "some enlisted" person. I had to take EVERY possible mention or inference to my enlisted heritage out of my resume just to get interviews and then this happened after the hiring process. My boss told me we could fight it but my response was "do you really think I want to work for the bastard"? In order to move up, I have had to remove my shadow box from my office and I do not keep any of my awards or anything that would identify me as enlisted in my office.

This issue is perpetuated by small minded people who have little leadership ability and refuse to recognize that any person can move past the previous capabilities and handle higher levels of responsibility. I was the superintendent of intelligence in the largest wing in the Air Force. I was responsible for the leadership and professional development of over 40 enlisted and junior officers. Since retirement, I have led the two most effective and rapid site selection efforts for high priority early warning radars and I have been personally engaged in high level negotiations with the MOD of Turkey and Japan and my radars are currently standing guard in both countries.

I never allowed anyone to tell me "you cant do that" because I was not a commissioned officer. and I will always step up to lead and do my outright best at whatever job I am assigned, but it can be very disheartening to know that I must hide my heritage.

Response by COL John R Coe made Aug 14 at 2018 4:11 PM

COL John R Coe — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:11:29 -0400

SHAME ON THE OTHER LADY.

Response by LTC Brian Croteau made Aug 15 at 2018 12:49 PM

LTC Brian Croteau — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:49:17 -0400

I cannot speak to current active duty, as mine is decades old. I can speak to the retired side, including "other" groups, such as fraternal organizations, who have veterans as members. Asking about military service enables the questioner to create a frame of reference for conversation. My experiences as an officer were different than those of an NCO or a junior enlisted. My experiences dealing with good, strong NCOs, and weak ones, enables me to discuss military experiences with those retired people. And that delivers "street cred"...

Response by PO3 Terry Miller made Aug 16 at 2018 1:15 PM

PO3 Terry Miller — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:15:59 -0400

Beyond referring to others by rank, and I don't always do that, I don't otherwise defer to them just because they were officers and I was enlisted unless they truly distinguished themselves or otherwise have done something to promote them in my esteem. Some, like the late Rear Admiral Chuck Grojean of the Nimitz Museum Foundation, didn't seem to mind whether I called him Chuck or Admiral and he wasn't the only one. I often refer to Master Chiefs by rank even when I know they've been retired for 30 years. But privately, it will more often be by first name.
I am fortunate in my position to have known some higher-ranking officers, including a CNO and SecNav and because they were active, I referred to them by rank. If I am lucky enough to encounter them after they retire, I will have to consider what to call them and may wait to see whether they offer to be less formal.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Aug 19 at 2018 10:26 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 22:26:23 -0400

I understand it, but I don't agree with it, nor do I practice it. High-ranking retired officers are treated somewhat differently - they're hired to be "Highly Qualified Experts" for exercises and experiments. Outside of these kinds of events, as I have expressed before, when we retire from military service, we are not frozen into the rank hierarchy of our former lives. I will always give a former service member appropriate respect for their service. But a former service member of higher rank has no authority over me because of their former rank. Sorry, we're not forever frozen into that hierarchy. After we leave service, we're in a meritocracy based on demonstrated capability and performance, not on our former ranks.

Response by TSgt Mike Rumage made Aug 31 at 2018 9:52 PM

TSgt Mike Rumage — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 21:52:28 -0400

Maybe it's the Marines / Army thing? Or maybe they focus on the vocal few who wear their spouses rank on their sleeves, so to speak. I have always tried to see person behind the rank. I think I set a good example for my wife.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Sep 1 at 2018 6:35 PM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 18:35:58 -0400

When I got promoted, people warmly congratulated me and a few indicated that my new rank was a very big deal. My response was "This means I get to keep my job." In our up-or-out military, promotions are foremost the means of allowing us to continue. I've tried not to be defined by my rank, and after my retirement I was ready to exchange "Chaplain" for "Pastor."

Response by PFC Carol Cleaver-Hesser made Sep 3 at 2018 7:30 AM

PFC Carol Cleaver-Hesser — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 07:30:03 -0400

When the spouse is not in the service she has no rights to act like she is higher rank than anyone else based on her husband's rank! There is no Fraternization amongst the ranks but at the same time you don't act like your better than someone else.

Response by Col James Fetterman made Sep 3 at 2018 10:34 AM

Col James Fetterman — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:34:34 -0400

Most retired members of the military have NOT left the service, totally. Any retiree can be recalled back to active duty. The problem here is that some non military spouses wear their spouses military rank in their minds. Another sign of the retiree's continued military connection is the signature block that retirees are supposed to use when dealing with the military: First and Last Name, Rank, Service (Retired).

Response by SPC Phillip Anderson made Sep 6 at 2018 7:13 PM

SPC Phillip Anderson — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 19:13:53 -0400

The only time my rank has ever been brought up is when I want to or at the VA. I'm a completely different person than I was in the Army. I don't even have my rank in my shadow box: only awards, ribbons, medals, and my combat patch.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Sep 11 at 2018 2:39 AM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 02:39:08 -0400

My favorite subject, Playing the rank card by spouses. These women (and rarely by men) is just their way of feeling important for something they never accomplished themselves. These players need to be put in their place more often than respected as human beings.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Sep 11 at 2018 2:56 PM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:56:17 -0400

The only personnel who get priveledged treatment in the Commissary or Exchanges are those on duty and in uniform should they need to bump others in line due to time constraints. It is extremely rare to see it occur, as most service members understand that they are to set the standard. As for Spouses playing their Partners rank for preferential treatment usually it only happens once. For if the service member's COC gets word of it, they often ensure an unpleasant corrective action takes place. Generally there are no repeat offenders. But as for 'That Spouse' he or she could loose some privileges. But word of bad behavior also travels quite fast among the community

Response by Cpl R.L. Lehmann made Sep 12 at 2018 8:25 PM

Cpl R.L. Lehmann — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:25:39 -0400

I once had a major tell me I would follow ALL orders given by his wife. I was in front of him due to a captains wife complaining I refused to follow her orders! Not uncommon and some wonder why I retired at 20 years and 17 days!

Response by Sgt Edward Padget made Sep 13 at 2018 8:01 AM

Sgt Edward Padget — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:01:38 -0400

My only real experience with stereotyping while on active duty was while I was stationed in S. Korea in the early 90's my base was PACAF HQ. Some of the wives of the flag officers thought they had stars on their shoulders. We'd get it mostly when they came back on base and refused to show ID because they were General such n such's wife. If you've ever worked as an entry controller on a HQ base you know all about the wall of whos who and these wives would literally look at the wall and point to thier 2, or 3 star husband and say that's my husband! As though we were supposed to somehow know every dependent of every commanding officer. Some of thos ladies were just over the top, most though were regular people.

Response by SGT Mark Friedman made Sep 13 at 2018 12:00 PM

SGT Mark Friedman — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 12:00:49 -0400

It doesn't matter. They are all civilians. They are rank level 0. And what rank their spouses are also shouldn't matter when standing in line at AAFES or the commissary.

Response by SPC Thomas Bradt made Sep 13 at 2018 2:06 PM

SPC Thomas Bradt — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 14:06:13 -0400

I am a veteran and a retired law enforcement officer from a police department and a sheriff's office. If I know someone rank I will address them by rank out of respect until they tell me other wise. It is a matter of respect. Someone's rank is not a reason to dis-like them.

Response by SGT Damion Claycomb made Sep 13 at 2018 3:00 PM

SGT Damion Claycomb — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:00:02 -0400

Me and my Battle got stopped at the PX on Ft. Drum by some LTC wife all pissy because we didn't salute her. "my husband is the commnader of such and such battalion you need to salute me". We were like yeah we are not in that battalion and don't know your husband. And we carried on leaving her fuming. Good times.

Response by PO2 Paul Dodd made Sep 13 at 2018 3:06 PM

PO2 Paul Dodd — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:06:09 -0400

I am a former sailor who ended up as senior Civil Service. I was a PO2 in the Navy but ended up as an assimilated O-5 in Civil Service. The fact that I was an enlisted man on active duty was definitely a problem in Civil Service. Every other person in Civil Service had been an officer. I was the maverick and addressed everyone by their name becaused it pissed them off. As far as I was concerned we were all equal and I didn't give a damn about past rank.

Response by CPL Tripp Leonard made Sep 13 at 2018 3:18 PM

CPL Tripp Leonard — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:18:57 -0400

I don’t care what rank someone was . I’m no longer active duty. Disrespect me, I’ll get disrespectful.

Response by MSgt George Bird made Sep 13 at 2018 3:38 PM

MSgt George Bird — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:38:41 -0400

When I was a lowly 1 stripe I was picking up a steak and a woman snatched it from me saying “I’m the base commanders wife” I snatched it back and said “I’m my mothers son!” I still laugh thinking about it some 44 years later

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Sep 13 at 2018 7:04 PM

Sgt William Margeson — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 19:04:44 -0400

To equate husband rank , while in a store, shows a lack of respect, by the wife, to members of the service. In the 60's I was in the PX line, ( PFC) and indicated to a woman( bI knew to be a COLS. wife ) to go in front of me. She graciouly permitted me to check out. Several officer wives , " I later learnend were Jr. officer. She was GASt that officers wives behaved like that. Abig change was amde.

Response by MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge made Sep 13 at 2018 7:25 PM

MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 19:25:36 -0400

Well I’ll say this, I was an enlisted man so me or my wife ever had the head of line privilege, however when pulling Alert duties with the B-52’s we had head of line privilege. I only used it when I abosolutly had to.

Response by LCDR Scott Stroman made Sep 13 at 2018 7:27 PM

LCDR Scott Stroman — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 19:27:23 -0400

I'm with you. "Lieutenant Commander Stroman" retired a long time ago. He became "Officer Stroman and then Sergeant Stroman" Then he retired from the police department and has been "Scott" ever since.

Response by AN Amanda Wiggins made Sep 13 at 2018 7:37 PM

AN Amanda Wiggins — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 19:37:51 -0400

I work at a law firm, but I have a weekend job at the Navy Exchange. I’m one of the few cashiers that knows the ranks well enough to confidently call their rank when service members are in uniform. However, when I have a retiree come through my line and I check their ID, I look at the rank and address them as such at least once. It normally gets me a “oh not anymore” comment from some, but the older officers (go figure) appreciate it. It depends on the person. I have had one of “those wives” a few times and I never hesitate to ask what branch THEY serve in. Usually stops them.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2018 9:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:30:00 -0400

I prefer to just be myself out of uniform, as do many of the high ranking NCO's and Officers I know. That being said, I'll always show the proper respect wearing civvies until they ask to just be referred to by name (especially those retired) then I'll honor their wishes.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Sep 14 at 2018 1:03 AM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 01:03:18 -0400

Maybe the Major didnt realize he married a POS wife..

Response by LtCol Mike Heitmann made Sep 14 at 2018 5:53 AM

LtCol Mike Heitmann — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 05:53:17 -0400

Response by Sgt Matt Owens made Sep 14 at 2018 7:25 AM

Sgt Matt Owens — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 07:25:57 -0400

Regardless of their spouse's rank, they are all the same rank. Dependant.

Response by CPL Freddy Travaglia made Sep 14 at 2018 8:06 AM

CPL Freddy Travaglia — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 08:06:28 -0400

we put our pants on the same way as a e1 to a general.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2018 9:09 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 09:09:08 -0400

In my time in the military I have seen spouses pull the rank card a few times. As a service member I firmly believed that some spouses feel that because their SM has a certain rank ; they are entitled. I still believe that the SM should “help” their spouse to understand that unless they themselves are a SM; they are not entitled to any particular privileges they may think they deserve. My first spouse was a fellow SM who was lower enlisted while I was an NCO. She never thought to try to use the fact that I was an NCO to benefit herself. Same with my second wife ; who had never spent a day in the service. Both my ex wife and my second wife only expected the basic respect and courtesy afforded them as responsible grown adults.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2018 11:18 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 11:18:01 -0400

Sir, my wife doesn’t even know the ranks lol

Response by SGT James Taylor made Sep 14 at 2018 1:09 PM

SGT James Taylor — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 13:09:50 -0400

When I was deployed, I was surprised to learn that my wife used to hang out with the wives of my CO and 1Sgt.

Response by GySgt Donald Vilandre made Sep 14 at 2018 1:21 PM

GySgt Donald Vilandre — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 13:21:47 -0400

Retirement means just that, your a civilian with some privileges. Rank should never be used by a spouse at all. They're NOT in the military!!!!! I used to tell them when I worked the gate and wanted me to salute them. lol

Response by SFC Dan Abbitt made Sep 14 at 2018 2:10 PM

SFC Dan Abbitt — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 14:10:21 -0400

A lot of BS stories get shared, Rank, years of service, mos, help weed out that BS. Once I feel comfortable with your level of BS, I turn 100% civilian mode.

Response by Brian Smith made Sep 14 at 2018 3:18 PM

Brian Smith — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 15:18:56 -0400

Pecking order is probably as old as mankind. Wives identifying with the status of their spouse is probably just as old. It’s a self identity, insecurity issue. None of these behaviors are unique to the military.

That CG’s wife made her husband proud. He married well.

Response by CPT Timothy Crooks made Sep 14 at 2018 5:34 PM

CPT Timothy Crooks — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 17:34:39 -0400

I warned my wife ages ago, before we got married, never confuse rank with dependency status.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2018 6:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 18:34:41 -0400

Because they peaked while in service?

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Sep 14 at 2018 8:45 PM

1SG John Aaron — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 20:45:55 -0400

There is little that is more annoying than spouses who throw around their significant others rank. My wife never did, but she has encountered people who are like this.

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Sep 14 at 2018 8:49 PM

1SG John Aaron — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 20:49:04 -0400

Retireees stuck on their rank can be annoying also, when I retired I hung up any sense of rank and position as a veteran. This has enabled me to reach out to many of my former Troops and give them honest advice and mentoring.

Response by MSG Mark Stinson made Sep 14 at 2018 11:19 PM

MSG Mark Stinson — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 23:19:46 -0400

In my time women of high ranking officers wore their spouses rank as a broach on their clothing. A woman I met while in the Advertising business told me how she was treated by the chairman of the Officers’ Wives Club because her husband was just a 1LT, A kid told me about driving their fathers car bearing the blue sticker with a Colonel’s rank and how the MP at the main gate saluted the car. Johnny Abrams rode home after school at Frankfurt American High School in a staff car driven by a PFC when his daddy was the commander of NATO. Nobody liked Johnny in school because he acted like a prick, he was a quarterback on the high school football team 3rd string. When ever his dad showed up the coach would put johnny in the game and pray that he didn’t screw up and lose the game. One morning sitting against the wall inside the school I heard a loud bang and saw that little Johnny had kicked the door open . The Vice Principal came running in and asked if I saw who kicked open the door; I replyed that I didn’t recognize the individual in question. He told me to come to his office at lunch. Once inside his office he told me that he knew who it was and because of who his daddy was couldn’t file a report without a witness. Again I said that I didn’t know him to which the VP took a wooden paddle out of his desk and said, “tell me his name or receive 3 swats”. I bent over and received the 3 swats, why, because my dad was a CSM with 27 years and I did not want a revenge Art 15 for my dad.

Response by SSgt Kerry Dillon made Sep 14 at 2018 11:35 PM

SSgt Kerry Dillon — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 23:35:02 -0400

My wife had the same experience at Quantico i told this officers wife in front of her husband that she isnt in the Marines and because her husband is an officer she has no right to act like she is an officer. By the way her husband agreed and had her apologize to my wife I was a Snco at the time.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 15 at 2018 8:20 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 08:20:27 -0400

Spouse have no rank, but often receive recognition in differing environments based on their Service Members grade. My wife never used my position to gain favor or assert herself, she did so by her knowledge and or personal qualities and treates. Since we have retired I have no desire to play the role I played in service.

I do believe there is a purpose for the use of grade in retirement, in varying environments. Service members are often seeking advice for purposes that they believe would benefit from the experience associated with certain grades. Whether that always pans out or not is only known by those seeking advice in a private setting.

I will close by stating that many of former senior grades also benefit other veterans of lesser grade when assisting them while they maneuver through Veteran support programs etc. there are benefits for using grade in certain environments.

I do agree that Vets are Vets, when those formerly of junior grades excuse their short term in service in any environment, I am sure to correct them by saying that one day or 30+ years we are all a part of the same Team and I thank them for their service.

Response by SSG Ron Raade made Sep 15 at 2018 10:30 AM

SSG Ron Raade — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 10:30:59 -0400

I am a GS 11 working with all ranks and some insist on it but most just say hey I'm. For me O-5 and up Sir or Ma'am but others whatever is preferred CSM still CSM. Most know from my motorcycle vest I went to DS and Iraqi Freedom but none of my rank ever comes up. Luckily I rarely meet the rank happy folks, I dislike the spouses who act like they are rank of but the one I know is insecure so I feel sorry for her.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Sep 15 at 2018 11:13 AM

Lt Col George Roll — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:13:12 -0400

A Military Spouse DOES NOT hold a military Rank or Grade. Courtesy towards the Military member may result in his/her spouce recieving some courtesy at offical functions but NOT in the PX BX or Navy Exchange, the Base Hospital or Clinic or Commissary. All Dependants hold exactly the same position outside the rank structure.
This is not to say a commanders wife or SMJs wife (or Husband) might take on added responsibilities towards other Dependants in the Military Spouses command. But that is not Rank.

Response by CPO Brian Engman made Sep 15 at 2018 12:30 PM

CPO Brian Engman — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 12:30:25 -0400

My Ex was confronted with a lady that tried to wear her LTCR husband’s rank. She shot her down telling her that she “f**ked a sailor for a living just like everyone else in the room.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Sep 15 at 2018 2:00 PM

SPC William Szkromiuk — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:00:25 -0400

You may have outranked me. But there are more of us than you!
Haha:-)

Response by PO1 Steve Mitchell made Sep 15 at 2018 3:38 PM

PO1 Steve Mitchell — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 15:38:18 -0400

If you think about it, it happens in all aspects of life. From the neighbors who have the best lawns or the nicest cars and talk about the people who don't behind their backs to cubical warriors who spread office gossip to belittle people to get ahead.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2018 3:54 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 15:54:37 -0400

I’m with Security Forces (Air Force Police) and we actually get that a lot. My favorite is when at the gate the wife will sit there waiting for her salute. Then comes the old “don’t you know who my husband is?!” Those are always fun.

Response by SFC Peter Balfe made Sep 15 at 2018 6:14 PM

SFC Peter Balfe — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 18:14:12 -0400

Retired from the guard, with several active years mixed in. I married my wife when I had two active years in, and two to go. She never learned the rank structure. She said that she just calls everyone Sir, and expects everyone to give her respect in return. Beyond that, rank applied to me, not to her!

Response by PFC Dominick Lambino made Sep 15 at 2018 6:43 PM

PFC Dominick Lambino — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 18:43:53 -0400

I was doing a patrol on post and I pulled over a spouse doing 50 and she said she was in a hurry she was late to work but she pulled her husbands rank she was like do you know a COL. so and so and I was like yes ma’am I do well I am gonna call him and tell him that you stopped me and I am gonna tell him to tell you not to give me a ticket. I said no need to do that ma’am I’ll call him myself I walked back to my patrol car and I pretended to call the COL. walked back to her vehicle gave her a ticket and went on with the rest of my shift

Response by CPL Jeff Tappan made Sep 16 at 2018 5:10 AM

CPL Jeff Tappan — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 05:10:26 -0400

Since when do spouses get privileges like that? What is this, 3rd grade?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 8:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 08:33:02 -0400

There is no worst case of a dependent pullingbrank, they have money to pull. They either have a current rank, or they dont. Retirees and Dependas respect only goes as far as the respect they give me. Get outta here with "do you know who my husband is?"

Response by CPL Jeremy Glenn made Sep 16 at 2018 10:15 AM

CPL Jeremy Glenn — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 10:15:26 -0400

Every good leader that I ever served under made sure to teach me that leaders lead from the front in battle and the back in garrison. By that I mean the follow me attitude when you’re on mission and taking care of soldiers when you’re not. When I first when in in 96 NCOs and officers still did stuff like refusing to eat in the chow hall or the field until they saw every one of their troops fed. They did things like mentor young troops to do the leader’s job. I had a few years break in service and then came back on active duty in 2008. There was a stark cultural shift. Toxic leadership was the order of the day. I watched as senior NCOs, officers, and some senior warrants alike would cut to the front of the chow line while deployed. A lot of NCOs decided never to teach their job to the lower enlisted guys, and consequently those lower enlisted soldiers weren’t prepared for anything. Senior NCOs had a select few that they chose were worthy of their attention rather than shoring up the weaker troops to make the group as a whole stronger. I myself had finally gotten back to where I was rank-wise, and was DA Select for E5. I had developed cancer and had some surgeries while I was going through the IDES process. I was told , “You’ll never wear sergeant stripes if I have anything to say about it. No cripple will while I am acting 1SG” (rear D SFC Acting as 1SG) I had to fight to get my cancer surgery and my ankle reconstructions. I was told I was just trying to get out of the second deployment....when I had cancer. Those guys cheated me out of money to take care of my family because of rear detachment syndrome. After I made the list they put in erroneous promotion paperwork to deny me E5 just prior to retirement. They blocked my transfer to WTB saying I was critical to the unit’s mission, but refused to allow me to be promoted. They also refused me my good conduct medal even though I had never had even one Article 15 and gave me no award when I left. When I went in to have my PEBLO talk to me about COAD I asked one question. Would I be able to go to a WTB unit or any other unit, or would I have to stay in my current unit. He told me I’d have to remain in the current unit. My response? Fuck that.

I say all that to make this point: Rank used to mean something. It means next to nothing to me now. I served with privates that had more character than most of the NCOs and officers I served with after I got back in. There were a few exceptions, and I stay in contact with those brothers. The guys who saw what happened and talked about how toxic stuff was but were among the select “few” changed their tune once they made rank. I’ve talked to a few of them and they try to rewrite history and tell me that it it wasn’t as bad as everyone said. They’re part of the problem if you ask me. By denying what’s taking place they perpetuate the toxicity.

Response by SFC Rick Walton made Sep 16 at 2018 11:22 AM

SFC Rick Walton — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:22:31 -0400

By and large spouses have no clue what a rank means aside from it's position above or below other ranks. Servicemembers have an obligation to let spouses know their rank belongs to them alone. Power and authority do not transfer because of proximity. It can be the same for basic trainees wanting to ride the coattails of SGM "Daddy".

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made Sep 16 at 2018 2:11 PM

SFC Kenneth G. — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:11:29 -0400

I am a SFC (Ret) and after retirement I taught JROTC in a local high school. I left JROTC about 17 years ago and from time to time I still see my students and they still call me Sargeant even though I tell them I don't go by that anymore. I also play golf with a retired Coast Guard Commander (O-5). We are on first name basis. It just depends on the person. I am all for the respect but when you are retired you are retired. I still however call some of my former Commanders Sir because they retired as LTC or COL.

Response by SGT Chad Berck made Sep 16 at 2018 5:50 PM

SGT Chad Berck — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:50:55 -0400

I would have called her out. Nicely though. Like in a smiling loud hyper courteous demeaning manner. “Of course Colonels wives always go to the front, just like on the Battlefield for husbands!!!” But that’s just how I rolled. Cost me, but eh.

Response by SSgt Jim Howard made Sep 17 at 2018 2:45 PM

SSgt Jim Howard — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:45:12 -0400

We used to call those women “RWDWs” or “Rank-Wearing Dependent Wives”

Response by SP5 Rich Levesque made Sep 18 at 2018 9:53 AM

SP5 Rich Levesque — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 09:53:40 -0400

Everyone who is retired or was is active duty in entitled to be called by their appropriate rank. They earned it. Afterwards, its usually first name. Even on Active Duty, when we were "off the clock" kicking back, it was usually first names. On duty, all business. Wives???? Have nothing to do with it.

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Sep 18 at 2018 11:46 AM

SGT Philip Keys — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:46:56 -0400

I got out a while ago, we had a work event a few years ago and there was some military brass present. I was sitting with a Col and a BG. I couldn't get over how young these guys looked to me. Of course I had to tell them and I started with I remember avoiding guys wearing those ranks and thought wow those guys are so old haha. The Col says I make coffee for this guy hahaha. Was a great time and I thanked them for their service. I have an open invite to see the "boss" anytime I'm on base.

Response by LCDR Thomas Roddy made Sep 18 at 2018 1:36 PM

LCDR Thomas Roddy — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 13:36:43 -0400

I watched the Commanding Officer of an Aircraft Carrier in the early 80s get relieved of command after a long investigation into allegations his wife was playing the rank card. The wife was found to have threatened "subordinate" wives, that if they didn't do what she said or participate in the wives club it would impact their husbands career. As I stated above, the Captain paid the price.

Response by MSgt Paul Freed made Sep 18 at 2018 7:57 PM

MSgt Paul Freed — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:57:06 -0400

Spouses of active or retired don't have a rank card.They have NO rank. They are a dependent. Their sponsor has rank, not them. Any installation commander worth his or her salt will point this out to any spouses who try this stupidity and remind their sponsors that they are ultimately responsible for the behavior of their dependents and will be held accountable for said behavior.

Response by Pam Pence made Sep 19 at 2018 10:04 AM

Pam Pence — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:04:09 -0400

As a former Marine & Air Force wife (hubby did an in-service transfer) this tank shaming happened at one of our squadron’s OWC meetings. The CO came to speak at one of the first meetings I ever attended. He asked the wives to all separate into groups according to our husbands’ ranks LT wives with all LT wives, Capt wives, Major, etc... so, we all complied and stood amongst our “equal” peers. The CO then asked us all to take a seat and listen up and then told us that would be the last time that he ever wanted to see that happen... “your husbands wear the tank on their uniforms, not you!” As much as the younger wives, like myself appreciated that statement, we were always kept in our “places” by the “higher ranking” wives; including the CO’s. I used to watch Army Wives, and really wished that the spouses supported each other like that; but it wasn’t that way back when I was a military spouse. I read many of the comments... most of which were written by the serviceman... trust me guys; your own wife probably rank shamed those under your rank... but I did appreciate what you said. I speak from experience-my husband was not well liked amongst his peers because he was loud and boisterous- the wives shunned me ( back then I was shy and timid - afraid to speak up for myself) if this were today; I wouldn’t hold my tongue; regardless of the spouse’s “rank”. You want respect; you give respect. JS

Response by SSgt Chaplain Rob Schoon Sr. made Sep 19 at 2018 11:35 AM

SSgt Chaplain Rob Schoon Sr. — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 11:35:45 -0400

That's ridiculous! Our active duty time is over. whatever rank we attained before separation has absolutely nothing to do with our wives' status in the "here and now". While I do feel closer to Marine brothers and sisters (mainly because I can relate to them better), we are all living the same type of lives and fighting the same fight in our respective lives. Insecure people who play the rank card are just showing the world their instability.

Response by Sgt William Ahlers made Sep 19 at 2018 12:39 PM

Sgt William Ahlers — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:39:08 -0400

You forgot a rank chart.
https://www.duffelblog.com/2012/07/pentagon-releases-preliminary-military-spouse-rank-chart/

Because Naval and consequently some Marine officers are like that. I can't even remember the number of times I have met women that mistakenly assumed rank was an STD. I had a former barracks roommate who got married later on whose wife was a music teacher in a local elementary school who, no shit, actually had a 4th grader say to her "My daddy is a Major and your husband is only a Corporal so I don't have to do what you tell me to." So, maybe we need to take a deeper look at what the person who actually wears the rank is telling their family members.

At any rate, I cannot agree more with the Major that made the statement regarding the sign of insecurity and lack of identity, and to be honest, I can genuinely understand how a spouse of an Active Duty member of the Armed Forces lacks that identity. They are isolated from family, from their friends, they have to find new friends every three years. They have little to no opportunities for career development or progression. One of my wife's friends from college had a father that was a prior Enlisted Marine officer and a mother who was a nurse practitioner and were at Camp Lejeune for a while. Those of you that know the shithole that is Jacksonville, NC understand that it is literally career purgatory for a spouse. After not finding anything around there worth driving the kids to daycare, she ended up taking driving three hours away to take a job up in Elizabeth City where she was on an ER Doc's "24hr sleep in an empty hospital room when you can" schedule a couple days a week.

Pentagon Releases Preliminary Military Spouse Rank Chart — Duffel Blog

WASHINGTON, D.C. —The Pentagon has released a preliminary artist rendering showing a chart of the proposed military spouse ranking system. The chart released late last night reflects ranks set forth by the Pentagon under the newly formed Spousal Code of Civilian Justice, with the ranks of S-1 through S-9. The Pentagon has still not yet …

Response by Shane Powell made Sep 19 at 2018 1:32 PM

Shane Powell — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:32:36 -0400

People are clique ish, I have no military background, but as an inspector for oil and gas construction my wife has to endure the cold shoulder from workers wives quite often. human nature I guess.

Response by Capt David Hostuttler made Sep 19 at 2018 11:11 PM

Capt David Hostuttler — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 23:11:13 -0400

Hi
I am a spouse of a retired military member, i say let's make a rank insignia for the spouses. There would only be 2 needed.

The

Response by CPL Mark Andersen made Sep 23 at 2018 9:18 PM

CPL Mark Andersen — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 21:18:17 -0400

I am heavily involved with the veterans group in my workplace. One of the women in the group is in the group because her husband served. She has thrown her husbands rank around a couple times. The one time that sticks out most is when she told me I was wrong when I defined a veteran (I took the definition off the VA website). She was adamant that I was wrong, and kept throwing her husbands rank in my face. As this was at work, there was not much I could say - but that young corporal in my head wanted to say a few things...

Response by CPO John Lang made Sep 26 at 2018 12:02 AM

CPO John Lang — Wed, 26 Sep 2018 00:02:33 -0400

Many times the retiree just can’t let it go. When you’re out you’re out...done. On active duty the officers wives get programmed by the husbands that they are better than enlisted personnel. They used to even teach this class system at the Naval Academy, how to deal with the lowly enlisted personnel. More times than once I was run into by women running into me at the commissary & rather than say excuse me, they would glare & state they were the colonels wife. I hope this times have changed, but I doubt it. After a 25 year career it was easy to leave that garbage behind. We do have a Constitution that say we are all equal!

Response by MAJ James Henderson made Sep 28 at 2018 1:33 PM

MAJ James Henderson — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 13:33:10 -0400

I don't think one's rank should come up at all. If you want to address someone by their rank do so in private otherwise it seems you are (and NEVER your family) doing so for a reason.

Response by SFC Bill Snyder made Sep 30 at 2018 9:23 AM

SFC Bill Snyder — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 09:23:24 -0400

The day I retired and walked away was the last time I treated an individual (regardless of rank) any different then any other person. I have met and interacted with individuals who asked to be addressed as their rank they held on Active Duty. I replied that since they aren't on AD, well, have a good day Mister. Just my opinion.

Response by SGT Lee Pennell made Sep 30 at 2018 2:31 PM

SGT Lee Pennell — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:31:48 -0400

Personally, all service members are my brothers and sisters in arms. How any of us could allow someone, civilian or military to disrespect or stereotype another one of us is beyond me.

Response by Maj Robert Thornton made Sep 30 at 2018 4:01 PM

Maj Robert Thornton — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:01:55 -0400

A cute story from one of my Charge nurses early in my career. The female military members were invited to the military officer wives meeting. In this meeting the Wing Commander was addressing the meeting. He started by asking all the wives to line up by rank. The military women stayed seated and the wives were checking dates of rank, etc. Finally the WC put it all to rest. He told them to sit down. He then told them the only women that should have gotten up were the women that were military women in the audience. He went on to let them know that their husbands had rank, they did not.
Doubt he made general, since there were general officer wives in the audience.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Sep 30 at 2018 4:58 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:58:24 -0400

Spouses who have not served, have no rank. Period.

Response by CW3 Michael Bodnar made Oct 1 at 2018 11:55 AM

CW3 Michael Bodnar — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:55:05 -0400

When I first meet someone that's retired, I will call them by rank at first as a sign of respect for what they achieved. I also shake their hand and thank them for their service and dedication to our country. As I get to know them more, I will refer to them as Mr. or Ms. until they tell me otherwise. Call me old fashioned but that's the way I was raised from my Father who is a retired Senior Chief. Now, they've retired so they hold no official rank. The fact that spouses still feel entitled to perks they may have enjoyed with their husband/wife were on active duty, well they're wrong in my opinion.

Response by MSG Randy Sheets made Oct 5 at 2018 7:36 AM

MSG Randy Sheets — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:36:35 -0400

Sound s like " Drama". As a 24 year Vet, E-8 I have never used this too ant advantage. I may wear a hat wit it on it but this just let people I excelled during my time in the Army. Retired rank means nothing, although I still call many retired officers Sir.

Response by SSG Steve Finlan made Oct 10 at 2018 10:50 AM

SSG Steve Finlan — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 10:50:46 -0400

Wives, or husbands, or children, or pets of Service Members don't have rank. Well, ok maybe dogs. Dogs can have rank. I've seen this garbage before. It is sadly most common amongst the wives of senior officers. I was NCOIC of USFK G5 in 1998; my boss was a female LTC (GREAT lady, still talk to her to this day). One night I escorted her to a diplo event at the Embassy Club on post (her husband was also a LTC and on duty that night), both of us in dress blues. Several officer's wives were acting like cackling hens, boasting about their husband's ranks, "I'm the wife of Colonel So-And-So! I'm the wife of Major Throckmorton Scratchnuts!" - and one of them made the mistake of making eye contact with Colonel O, who pulled herself up ramrod straight (her sign that you've angered her...), took a sip of her drink, and said icily "Shugah, I AM the Colonel. Come, Sergeant, I need another drink". "Yes, Ma'am". The wives went dead silent.

Your wife should inform that Major's wife that she is nobody, and I'd consider making a call to that Major's command, to have him spoken to about rank, and what it is for.

Response by 1SG George Atchison made Oct 11 at 2018 2:41 PM

1SG George Atchison — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:41:57 -0400

There jobs snobs who have no status except being wife. (that should be enough

Response by SGM Cify Ale Marlow made Oct 16 at 2018 5:18 PM

SGM Cify Ale Marlow — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:18:41 -0400

Pretty shallow and petty. I give officers a hard time but all in jest.

Response by TSgt Lars Eilenfeld made Oct 22 at 2018 11:04 PM

TSgt Lars Eilenfeld — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:04:45 -0400

Personally I think it's kind of pathetic that people continue to use their rank after they get out of the military or if they retire from the military. If you want to continue reliving The Glory Days then why did you retire why did you get out to begin with you should have just stayed in as long as you could have. Unless you were in the uniform I'm not calling you by your rank. I know of an individual who's been retired for over 20 years and every time he goes to a retirement ceremony Healey's death sauce the old Master Sergeant outfit and puts that on to go out there to the retirement ceremony. Some people might say he's just showing a sign of respect the reality is he's just trying to relive The Glory Days.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2018 1:39 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 01:39:46 -0400

My wife is Canadian and she can give a hoot about rank. She has noticed that women from higher-ranking or lower-ranking some of them don't have very much education and it shows in their Facebook posts. Just treat everybody equally and with respect.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Oct 31 at 2018 3:43 PM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:43:41 -0400

When I took off my uniform at retirement I entered life as a civilian, but if I do refer to someone by rank it it is out of respect for them, the rank they held and the commitment they gave. Respect is earned not given.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Oct 31 at 2018 6:30 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 18:30:25 -0400

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Nov 11 at 2018 7:03 PM

PVT Mark Zehner — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 19:03:56 -0500

They should watch when they do this life can play it very hard! Had an xo that was just harsh on the enlisted! More than a decade later I'm running radar and stop a car going 25 moh over the limit! As I walk up to explain why I stopped him he didn't recognize me at 1st and stated that he was an Army Captain and I had no reason to stop him! I told him glad to see you're still arrogant and when I told him my name his face showed the anguish! :-)

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Nov 11 at 2018 8:25 PM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 20:25:18 -0500

Your wife is probably better off not having the other lady as a friend.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2018 3:48 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 03:48:40 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs -

I find it rare that this happens. Maybe it is because I was enlisted? Maybe because I can talk to all ranks as if they were human, deserved respect, and I know how to keep proper military bearing as well? In my opinion, this is ridiculous. Period. Marines are servant leaders. Their spouses should be as well. Granted, you cannot order the spouse to behave a certain way.

The only thing that comes to mind is Marine vs Army. And some of us jarheads sometimes go to far (in our rivalry) and that can rub off on a spouse. Especially if that is all they see from us.

As far as what I would do? I would tell my wife to respond "Did I offend you in some way? If so, I apologize. If not, I am sorry you feel the need to embarrass your husband in this way." (And Kittery says "Yea!")

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 20 at 2018 4:32 PM

1SG James Kelly — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 16:32:49 -0500

The Maririne's wife holds the rank of "stupid cow' with the award of no manners.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Nov 23 at 2018 10:20 PM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 22:20:30 -0500

My thought's are I will always respect the "person's" rank no matter whether their retired or not. They earned that rank. I'm not sure where the spouse come's in to tell you the truth. They deserve total respect no matter what rank their better half is. I don't care if their an E-1 to a General! You treat everyone as if their special and you should never talk down to anyone nor make anyone feel like your better than them.....But those who play the rank card whether their the officer/NCO and OR the spouse themself...shame on you. If you pull that kind of behavior then what are you teaching your Soldiers/Marines/Navy and Air Force folks etc.? Lead by example.

Response by SSG(P) David Micheau made Nov 25 at 2018 8:49 PM

SSG(P) David Micheau — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 20:49:41 -0500

Remember that military spouses often ranked themselves based off how their spouses were ranked in the military. It is sort of an expectation of assumed responsibility.

That being said, choosing not to interact or communicate with someone based on their spouses’ ranking is asinine. Said spouses should be be banding together to take care of one another in spite of rank rather than letting that be a defining “in or out” criterion

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Nov 26 at 2018 1:41 AM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:41:13 -0500

Anyone who has to embellish their qualifications, rank or experience isn't much. I was discharged as a Staff Sargent as an E-6 just over 7 is a good record. While I was selected for Gunny my medical discharge precluded that honor. I had tremendous opportunities ended by my injury. My shortened career was one I am still proud of. I had the respect of those I served with. The proudest accolade I ever got was a 29 year Marine put on my fitness report would particularly wish to serve in combat with this marine. Each of us has served with varying levels of distinction, it is our pride of service that sets us apart, I refuse to allow liars, hangers on and bullshit artists diminish my pride or that of my brothers and sisters. As for wives who wear poorly their husband's rank, they only tear down his reputation and never enhance it, and that goes for the children as well. A good military wife always enhances her husband's reputation through her service to her family and community.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 9:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:52:12 -0500

I would like to address both points in this thread, I never demanded anyone address me by my rank unless it was a professional situation. In the Army, daily of course I was addressed as Private, Soldier, Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain or Sir as MAJ Morton stated the Army is a professional organization. After the Army however I consider it an Honor when someone addresses me as Sir or Captain and I show my appreciation. For instance, I work on post and the gate guards are not required by regulation to render the hand salute to retired officers so when they don't I say nothing and when they do not only do I return the salute, I thank them for it. I address retirees by their rank until they request that I do otherwise. I believe they earned it, therefore I use their rank out of an extreme sense of respect.
To address the other point, Staff Sergeant Frank hit the nail on the head as it were, spouses need to be reminded by their husbands that they hold no rank and especially spouses of senior ranking personnel. Unfortunately I have seen it all to often in my 32 years that the wives of 1SG's, CPT's, MAJ's, LTC's, COL's, CSM's, SFC's and if you can believe it even the lowly Lieutenant's wives often identify and even have the nerve to introduce themselves with their husbands rank. When I took command of my first company I made sure to educate my units spouses at the very first Family Readiness Group (FRG) meeting. we never had a problem after that in my command.

Response by Brad Miller made Dec 1 at 2018 1:32 PM

Brad Miller — Sat, 01 Dec 2018 13:32:51 -0500

As a civilian, I like at least knowing the rank of the person, because it gives me some idea of their credibility/expertise. A sergeant's comments on military matters will carry a lot more weight than a private's for example.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Dec 2 at 2018 3:42 AM

SGT Donald Croswhite — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 03:42:55 -0500

Because it's funny.

Response by SSG K Johnson made Dec 5 at 2018 12:36 PM

SSG K Johnson — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 12:36:40 -0500

I don't play the rank card but I do miss being called Sergeant sometimes. I worked hard for it as we did back in the day. However my time has passed and it's up to these younger NCO's now and I hope they wake up one day and remember to respect the subordinates in their charge. The lower ranks have the freshest training. You can learn from them as much as you can teach them. I always treated my soldiers as my peers unless needed otherwise.

Response by SGT Ernest Huerta made Dec 8 at 2018 8:36 PM

SGT Ernest Huerta — Sat, 08 Dec 2018 20:36:12 -0500

In the case of a retired officer or NCO, those who were held in high esteem, friends and associates
may out of respect and affection continue to refer to the individual by their former rank. Who does
this practice hurt?

Response by SGT Ernest Huerta made Dec 8 at 2018 8:45 PM

SGT Ernest Huerta — Sat, 08 Dec 2018 20:45:13 -0500

There is NEVER an excuse for Bad Manners!

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Dec 9 at 2018 2:44 PM

Cpl Tyler Therrien — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 14:44:59 -0500

it is not "stereotype" at least not in any negative sense. More in a respect for that once achieved Just as we call the former Mr President or Governor

Response by CPO Nate S. made Dec 9 at 2018 11:21 PM

CPO Nate S. — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 23:21:21 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I would say ..... well an old Chief will hold his tongue! But, I wonder if the Major is aware of how his spouse in contributing to "Not .... keeping his honor clean".

May be she needs to really hear this and understand the words at their core - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqv6tzeJ9R4.

I would say that she needs to learn it for herself!!! And, make it her part of her understanding of what is expected of a true Marine's wife! As a US Navy Corpsman who has served with US Marines I can make this strong recommendation.

The Marines' Hymn (lyrics) - USMC hymn

Official hymn of the United States Marine Corps --- Support Us: https://www.paypal.me/JRvideos - Thank You! --- The "Marines' Hymn" is the official hymn of t...

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Dec 10 at 2018 12:53 AM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 00:53:39 -0500

I agree with all the comments, rank, past rank, abuse or assumption of power is wrong and has no place in our culture.

HOWEVER, and this is just a side note, in other cultures and other countries it is not the same. In many countries a retiree is their retirement rank for life. In my case, when in Nigeria, I am Major Arnold. This is not at my insistence, it is at their insistence and by their culture. And, they do not understand that we consider retirees to be civilians. I've tried to tell them that I am no longer a Major, I am retired and I am a civilian, but that does not compute. So, try to be aware of their customs and just go with the flow, specially when in country as a guest military assistance trainer.

I have a story to go with this. A few years ago I was working as part of a team as a civilian contractor providing military assistance training in Uganda. We drove thru the post gate every morning and evening. On the first day, the young soldiers and the corporal of the guard at the gate did not know who we were and was not sure what to do so they presented arms as we drove thru. Our boss told host senior trainer that we were all retired and that it was not necessary to salute as we drove in or out. A day later the Post Command Sergeant Major found out his gate guards were not rendering the proper military protocol and required them to do so. The next day as we entered the gate a Sergeant Major was at the gate, stopped each car, asked us each our rank, while a corporal recorded our names and rank. For the rest of our time there each car which had a retired officer in it received the honor of the guard presenting arms. We did not ask for it, but the Post Sergeant Major would not hear of it.

Response by Nicci Eisenhauer made Dec 10 at 2018 2:18 AM

Nicci Eisenhauer — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 02:18:00 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs CPO Nate S. CONGRATULATIONS, VETERAN! Wow, this is a 2 year old post with a LOT of comments. A bit tough to read through and see if I'm repeating... at the risk of so doing, here it is: CONGRATULATIONS VETERANS... you are NOW a 7-STAR! ... uh... what? Well, they thought of awarding Pershing a 6th star, but officially that ultimately belongs to Washington. That makes YOU, dear Veterans finally equal to the rank you defended. You see, we live in a Republic, and as such, the military serves at the will of the citizenry. As service members, you took an oath that effectively surrenders your rights under common law and entitles you to the bonds of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, which is really no bed of roses, and for THAT sacrifice alone, a grateful citizenry owes you our appreciation and support. You ARE the tip of OUR spear. At the end of the day, the Nation throws you in our stead -- our warriors. Your greatest power is achieved the day you ETS and, by whatever choice yours, retirement, med board -- you are now among us: civilians. We have no rank as civilians except to outrank every officer in the military... including its CIC. On the day you join our ranks, you REAP the full benefit of everything for which you wore the uniform. Some of those UCMJ laws will, unfortunately, follow you for your entire life. That, too, is a sacrifice. With the reclaiming of your 7-star rank comes a responsibility: bridge the military-to-civilian cultural divide. Not alone... find a battle buddy who's never served and help them understand. Ask them to help you be a civilian, too. Guide us in the lessons of teamwork, mentorship, and global good will that you engage in more frequently than war. Bring back your experiences of people and places around the world, so we may value the place you defend -- for too many of us have known no other. Speak from your experience why a battle should be fought or not. Engage with your 7th star, because you not only earned it -- you defended it. But remember this: every person you encounter in today's military volunteered just like you. Someday, they'll take off the uniform, just like you. And you know, sure, we'll always show respect. But in the halls of the American Legion you wear no military rank... why? Because you have none... you're a 7-star now, and "civilian" implies "civility" -- and that means in uniform or out of it. We are all citizens of these United States and 5 territories and colonies. Service is expected of ALL of us. In WWII, no family went untouched. We fought wars ON these lands and AMONGST ourselves. True service runs up the ranks and right back down them. You follow a leader to battle -- but only if they inspire the fight. In the early days of this nation, an officer was pinned and sent out to muster troops. Truly any man who joined up with him was an honor to that officer. A direct recruit is a very different relationship than the way things are today. In years gone by, truly a leader should have been humbled for the willingness of his men (and women). And so it should be today, as well. Someday, the stars are all sevens, we pray.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Dec 10 at 2018 9:26 AM

LTC John Griscom — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:26:35 -0500

Was at a post where the Officers Wives Club was expecting the Commanding General to talk to them.
When he arrived, he commented that the wives were not seated according to rank. After things settled and the wives were re-seated, the CG said, "You ladies have no rank", and walked out.
Apparently, a wife had tried to use her husband's rank while shopping on post.

Response by SPC Samantha Stapley made Dec 10 at 2018 12:55 PM

SPC Samantha Stapley — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 12:55:16 -0500

Not quite the same, but similar. I have a spouse pull the pregnant card on me when I as working operations. I did all of the personnel files, and was finishing up on a soldier who had recently gotten married. I was going to hand walk the paperwork through since I didn't have much on my agenda for the day. It was taking me longer than the spouse wanted, so she pulled the "I am 12 weeks pregnant and it's taking too long". I stood up from my desk with my 8 month pregnant belly and told her we were ready to go.

I have seen many spouses try to pull rank as well. People in general try to get over on other people.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2018 3:24 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 15:24:50 -0500

I don't see this as a veteran, retirement or active duty issue, but as a spouse issue. There have been and always will be wives that wear their spouse rank and treat others with a lack of respect due to their false sense of worth based upon their spouse's rank.

Your second point of addressing retired members by rank - I think it is done out of respect for the other person's service and the rank they held. Just because we retire, don't mean that I lost the rank that I held and deserve to be addressed by that rank when in a military situation. It is similar to USAA - they always address us by our rank and thank us for our service.

Response by SSgt David Marks made Dec 19 at 2018 11:54 AM

SSgt David Marks — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:54:45 -0500

Some people just don't get it, when a member leaves the service their spouses are nothing more than other civilian spouses, but for some reason they still think that they have privileges, when in fact they dont. Also by calling a veteran by their former rank is a show of respect, however they too in fact are nothing more than civilians too. Therefore everyone is the same and everyone should be respected and treated as equils.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Dec 30 at 2018 2:51 PM

SFC David Xanten — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 14:51:41 -0500

Wife's don't have ANY rank unless they are the Service Member. Playing the "rank card" should only work at the Wife's Club and no where else. The Service Member earned the Rank they hold and should be addressed by the rank unless asked not too. I used to hate to see Wife's without their husbands, who actually hold the rank, park in a spot reserved for that rank anywhere on post.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2018 5:23 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:23:45 -0500

I'm trying to figure out why a Major's wife (the other woman) would try to pull rank on a Bird Col's wife (your wife).
My next puzzle will be to figure out why she's pulling rank period.

Response by MSG Mark Stinson made Jan 3 at 2019 1:04 AM

MSG Mark Stinson — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 01:04:27 -0500

Here’s A comment I’d like to add. When I was assigned to A-401 5th Group RVN my Captain was Mike Canavan. Much later I started getting back in touch with my teammates. I contacted Sherman in Houston because he has a data base with every SF soldier that served in the Nam. When I asked about Captain Mike he laughed and said easy one, he’s a MG in command of JSOC. I called but he was in a meeting so I left my name and number. An hour later as I was going through the S-1 area I was paged that a MG Michael Canavan was holding on line 2. I picked up the phone and said Captain Mike how the hell are you? We spoke for over an hour and he closed with, “if anyone tries to mess with you call me and if I can’t help you General Hugh Shelton certainly can. After I finished the call the E-8 S-1 went ballistic shouting that you don’t talk to a Major General like that. I smiled and responded, “when you serve on a small team (12) in a combat zone you can and if I’d used his current rank he would have thought I was upset with him.”
When the 5th Group held their Flash change going back to the Nam era Flash Gen Miley was present because he served as a captain in 5th Group. At the change he tossed his BDU cap with his four stars into the stands then put on his beret with captain bars. At the meet and great I asked him if he ever served with a Michael Canavan. He responded yes, he was the division XO in the 101st when I was a Brigade commander. I told him about my time serving with him when he was a captain in the Nam. Miley reached into his pocket and gave me one of his Chief of Stark coins.
I know this comment is a bit divergent from the subject at hand but I felt it was worth writing. One last point captain Mike retired as a three star.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2019 7:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 19:55:21 -0500

Unfortunately, tradition is well entrenched in our military. I was in a Reserve unit where a brand new Platoon Leader (had not been to BOLC yet and was Direct Commission) was flaunting his rank. When he and the PSG inevitably were at odds later, the PSG (wrongly and disrespectfully so) asked "What makes you so special?" The PL replied "I have a Bachelors degree". The response was "So does almost everyone else in the platoon. Two Soldiers have their Masters, and one is almost done with law school".

All of this hails to a time where there was a class system - officers were "gentlemen" and enlisted were the common people.

I am in a unit now where a CPT (not the CO) told me that he can learn from and teach to everyone in the company something. THOSE are the people that can be followed to hell and back.

Response by SPC Randell Pendley made Jan 7 at 2019 9:43 AM

SPC Randell Pendley — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:43:30 -0500

Even USAA uses Rank to address you.

Response by PO2 Weaver Brian made Jan 9 at 2019 2:27 AM

PO2 Weaver Brian — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 02:27:40 -0500

At my last ships reunion, there were several men there that I recognized as officers from my time in. To a man, I called them as Mr. *****, whatever was their last name. To this day, I still recognize that they were officers, and they were above me. I still cannot call them by their first names, no matter how they say it is okay today.

Response by SSgt Tracy Kawasaki made Jan 14 at 2019 4:05 PM

SSgt Tracy Kawasaki — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:05:24 -0500

Really and truly retired in about six months. Until then, I am in the non-drilling USAF reserve. I spent time active duty, then ANG and federal technician. I also served in Civil Air Patrol. So depending on the day of the week, the time of day, I was an E-5, WG-12, or a LTC. I saluted out of habit, returned salutes, called some Sgts by rank, some by last name, first name or nickname. The same for captains, colonels, and generals.
I have mopped floors as a LTC, and taught classes to officers as a Ssgt.
I taught a man to ride motorcycles as part of the MSG motorcycle program. After the course was over he identified himself as the adjutant general for Ohio. Two stars. The man had class.
I have officers give a hard time about their rank. Meanwhile, I just smile and nod. Knowing that I graduated from SOS while they were still trying to get in or pass.
Some felt they were SUPERIOR because they had a college degree. Smile and nod, knowing I had seven degrees. At national staff college, they tell you to never be a dick about your rank. Some don't listen, and they teach their spouses to be dicks also. Eventually they would be coming to me needing something fixed that was not part of my job duties. How soon their problem got fixed was relative. Relative to any projects needing fixed by people I respected as a person.

Response by TSgt Mike Kujawa made Jan 14 at 2019 6:21 PM

TSgt Mike Kujawa — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:21:45 -0500

We are all brothers and sisters. Each rank does have its privileges. And those in the upper ranks are due just that. But in my humble opinion civilians are just that civilians. Once you retire, there is no more rank. Just my thoughts.

Response by Veteran(s) Wife made Jan 14 at 2019 11:20 PM

Veteran(s) Wife — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 23:20:03 -0500

My father retired as a CWO3. Mom always took us to the enlisted pool on base because it was bigger than the officer's. That is, until one day when the sailor checking her ID card said, "You can't use this facility. You have to go to the Officer's pool." Mom took us "their" pool. We hated it. It was really small and the wives and kids were so stuck up, we didn't have a good time. We never went back. After that we were "guests" of our enlisted friends and back at our favorite pool!

Response by SGT Michael Mastroianni made Jan 15 at 2019 2:52 PM

SGT Michael Mastroianni — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:52:33 -0500

In my case, I have used the former rank of as a voluntary sign of respect. Also, I'll use last names only sometimes when it was friendly and common while in the service. Much as I do with friends in the medical community. When a person uses rank in a pejorative way, then it is a sign of bullying, insecurity, or simple duchebaggery.
Sgt. U.S. Army 1982-1987

Response by SCPO Brian Moats made Jan 15 at 2019 11:02 PM

SCPO Brian Moats — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 23:02:35 -0500

Don't know anyone who plays the rank card except officers (ret or vet) I find I get treated worse by active duty.(I retired in 95) I have found spouses to generally do it more often than most. Haven't had any trouble much from my generation. But like I said I get treated generally worse by current active duty

Response by LCpl Martin Vincent made Jan 16 at 2019 9:13 AM

LCpl Martin Vincent — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:13:47 -0500

From my combat experience in Vietnam as a young Marine I know many of us who held positions that normally required officer rank. That said, many including myself held those positions without the associated rank. I recall running Spooky Gunships for 3 consecutive nights during a 3 day/night major engagement with the NVA. When the pilot mentioned if I get to Danang look him & crew up at the officer's club I informed him I was only a L/Cpl. I believe it was Spooky 3/9 hell of a nice guy. He said " You get there son, we'll find a set of bars for you". In respect to your question I'll respect the rank but from my experience often not the person.

Response by CAPT Carlos Flanagan made Jan 16 at 2019 11:03 AM

CAPT Carlos Flanagan — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 11:03:58 -0500

I would agree on most points on the rank issue with the exception of the PhD referral. When one retires or leaves the service, the rank while earned and honorary, is in the past. The PhD however is current and most certainly earned. I would partially agree that it is a bit stuffy to go around in the general public demanding to be called "Doctor." Completely distinct and separate in a professional setting where the title of "Doctor" is most appropriate.

Response by CW5 Dennis Stewart made Jan 16 at 2019 1:50 PM

CW5 Dennis Stewart — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 13:50:27 -0500

I work around a lot of retired Officers and NCO's and rank never comes in to play unless its a joke. Such as " he doesn't know any better he was a colonel" After retirement it is nice to recall what you were, but you must lay that aside and be a individual. At no time should a spouse take on the rank of the service member

Response by Maj Wayne Crist made Jan 16 at 2019 5:25 PM

Maj Wayne Crist — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:25:01 -0500

I just don't understand it. My best friend and business partner is a retired Msgt if it helps on the job we use our rank if not we don't use it. My Brothers will address me as Major and I know they are about to pull my leg about something. Even on active duty playing on softball teams my teammates would be surprised when they saw my in uniform - I was the usually the only officer on the team. Now I earned my rank and am proud of it, but unless the time a and place call for it I don't use it.

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Jan 16 at 2019 9:44 PM

SPC Clayton Ellzey — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 21:44:25 -0500

As a pvt back in 85 while working on a fence project I experienced the dependa throwing her husband's rank around .
My husband it 2nd it nobody and hew was S2 to our Col and your truck was going 5 mph over speed limit.
After the F bombs and MF bombs were dropped pretty sure she learned a lesson.

Response by SGT Tom Middleton made Jan 17 at 2019 7:16 AM

SGT Tom Middleton — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 07:16:29 -0500

I don’t view the rank card as a sign of insecurity per se, but rather a part of our flawed human nature.

We cannot escape our natural inclination to pride, envy, sloth, etc. The best we can do is resist our base urges and strive toward virtue, accepting those flaws we cannot change.

But hey, if it weren’t for himanity’s flaws, then we wouldn’t need a military, would we?

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Jan 17 at 2019 1:30 PM

Maj Dale Smith — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:30:10 -0500

I'm sorry you feel this way. Those that have spent a career getting to where they are, and this includes field grade and command grade officers, senior enlisted NCOs, PhDs, medical doctors, judges, chaplains, attorneys and senior political leaders all have titles. If you are a personal friend or accquantance, a first name should be fine, however, if you do not know the individual and (s)he uses a title, than you should use it too. For those of us that have retired in the military, it represents having spent 20+ years in national defense, and along with that are numerous technical and professional schools. I went as far as AF Air Command & Staff College which involved a curriculum of 6 disciplines and books that stacked over 3' feet high. It took apx. 11 months of study and it was intermediate to Air War College which requires a discertation and two more years of study. Anyone in the rank of 0-6 and above has accomplished this task which is tantamount to receiving a PhD in National Defense. We may all be civilians now as retirees, but that which we learned over our careers is still with us. Our day to day jobs in the military prepaired us for leadership, manpower management, tactics, logistics and to strategize and portend what a potential enemy might be planning. All these skills have a civil counterpart which makes us very good in the civil community. A military title helps inform someone who does not know you what your training and skills are. If you are already working within a realm of retired military members, the title may be moot since you all have similar backgrounds, but 98% of the U.S. has not served and your title is a lightening rod for leadership which leads to requests for advice on how to accomplish something. I may have only been a Major, but before I was 40 YO, I had deployed with over $1B in air assets and 200 troops to an FOB and been in command. How many of your civil counterparts have been responsible for this much in materiel? In addition, by age 33, I had been incharge of a SAC command center. I controlled 6 airfields in the North Central and North East US and on my authority, parroting the NMCC, I could shut down all air and ground operations at Chicago O'hare IAP, Greater Pittsburgh IAP and Gen Billiy Mitchell Field in Milwaukee, WI as well as 3 active duty AFBs. If the individual uses a title and you do not know him, use it. He may have a story for you to hear.

Response by SPC Ken Harper made Jan 18 at 2019 10:38 AM

SPC Ken Harper — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:38:51 -0500

I believe a whole lot of it has to do with attitude. I knew officers and senior enlisted during my tours of duty in the Navy and Army who were so "down to earth" you'd never have known they had rank if you didn't look, and by the same token, back here "in the world" dealing with numerous veterans and vet org's here in our area, some of the most down to earth ones I know used to wear bars, oak leaves, birds and stars, yet they've never said anything about their former rank unless asked. The stereotypical officer or senior enlisted who entered the room behind their large collar insignia will always enter rooms and walk around with their rank ahead of them, just so you will be able to know what they are or were. As an MP I got to meet a few "self-important" officers wives who made illegal turns, etc. and they were all too glad to inform me or my partner who their husband was and that he would know fairly quickly that a couple of lowly MPs had the audacity to write her a ticket for a moving violation. One just so happened to be the Provost Marshal's wife and he invited her down to the station to meet with us. Her anticipated joy of seeing two dumb MPs get chewed out turned into embarrassment, because he laced her up one side and down the other about copping an attitude and trying to use his rank to avoid tickets, etc. then he announced to everyone that if he ever found out his wife or ANY officer or their wife received "special privileges" due to rank, that he would personally file UCMJ charges against us for failing to uphold the law. The officers and senior enlisted who treated EVERYONE with respect and didn't "push" their rank around or allow their spouses to use it, earned respect because they gave it, not merely because of regulations; on the other hand, the ones who did tend to stick it in your face and who practically dared you not to give them respect were only given the bare minimum because of their demanding attitude. There are some leaders we would follow and protect to the ends of the earth, then there are those we wouldn't urinate on if they were on fire.

Response by SGT Rudy Gibson made Jan 18 at 2019 12:28 PM

SGT Rudy Gibson — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:28:48 -0500

I wish I knew the answer to your question. I work in Veteran’s services and am a TAP facilitator. I can’t count the number of times I have had someone get upset with me. I was an E-6 in the Army and I usually get crap from senior enlisted and officers 0-4 and above. One Colonel wrote my critique and said he was insulted that a Staff Sargent instructed his class. He deserved better. I tell veterans that are seeking employment, “Your rank doesn’t mean anything to civilian employers. Half of them don’t even know what your rank means”. Government contractors excluded. The casinos in Las Vegas is all about gaming and not about the military. It is OK to be proud of the rank you earned but to look down on someone of lessor rank. Is just moronic and could get your feelings hurt.

Response by LTC John Bush made Jan 18 at 2019 2:36 PM

LTC John Bush — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:36:18 -0500

I don't and know very few that do except perhaps when involved wit some military activity ans USAA always refers to customers by rank. Some few do but it usually fades with time.

Response by MSgt Andre Stringer made Jan 18 at 2019 5:26 PM

MSgt Andre Stringer — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 17:26:47 -0500

I am retired and never tell anyone my rank unless asked but some active duty and former military will still address me by rank out of respect. Some of my civilian friends do the same and will introduce me to others by rank. I would tell all of them that is not necessary and to stop doing so. A strange way rank works. When we formed a veterans motorcycle club in our VFW. All the members (most were former military) decided I would be the first president because as they told me. I had the highest military rank in the group. I have two friends who are retired Col. and most people don't even know their names because everyone just calls them Col. out of respect and these Cols don't play the "rank card."

Response by WO1 Mike Dwyer made Jan 18 at 2019 9:45 PM

WO1 Mike Dwyer — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 21:45:41 -0500

I don't care so much about the military rank, but about the "Doctor" thing....due to various things getting in the way, plus my own procrastination, it took me 16 years to finish my Doctor of Education degree. It wasn't all fun and games either. So, I always introduce myself as Mike, but if someone insists on being formal and tries to call me Mr. Dwyer I immediately correct them and say it's Doctor Dwyer. I much prefer Mike, but I won't overlook those 16 years!

Response by LTC James McElreath made Jan 19 at 2019 12:48 AM

LTC James McElreath — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 00:48:31 -0500

Col,
I believe people do like to be appreciated from where they come from in regards to services. It has taken many years to establish what you have made of yourself. Once you leave the service that part of your life is put in a box and placed in the back of the closet. Then one day someone cares again (RP), and it makes a person feel good about themselves as their service, rank. Now I do not understand why a Maj wife would ne looking down on anyone. They are not serving, nothing but being married to a service member. I do remember back in the latter 70's the wives clubs were an important piece that the ladies joined and the ladies bore the rank of their husbands. The Maj's wife may of had a feud going with someone from her travels. It quite possibly had been a Col's wife that she had a problem with.

Response by LCDR William Johnston made Jan 19 at 2019 1:27 AM

LCDR William Johnston — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 01:27:53 -0500

I suggest you take a look at this: http://www.formsofaddress.info/USA_Retired.html

How to Address Retired Armed Service Personnel

Honor and Respect: Names, Titles, and Forms of Address

Response by Cpl Geoff Smith made Jan 19 at 2019 5:24 PM

Cpl Geoff Smith — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 17:24:13 -0500

Some people insist on being referred to by there rank, because they are insecure. that My Dad reminded the entire family that he earned the rank, we didn't, and therefore could not use his rank for our advantage. He also taught us that NO ONE is less than us.

Response by SN Walt Boyer made Jan 19 at 2019 7:02 PM

SN Walt Boyer — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 19:02:55 -0500

As a veteran and former sailor, I have maintained friendships with several others that had higher ranks than I. I still refer to my E7 friends as Chief, and those that were officers by their last commission. It is simply out of respect for what they achieved. Those that would use or "abuse" a previous higher rank over someone when both are civilians is simply an asinine move.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jan 20 at 2019 7:37 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 19:37:50 -0500

I have not experienced that. I have friends who were officers while I was enlisted. I was treated well by them then and since.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 8:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:01:54 -0500

Respectfully disagree. I am a Sergeant. There are E5s. There is a difference. Some folks just wear the rank, and that's fine. However, I have found the men who embody their position, those are the few who carry the rest of the service on their backs. Thank the gods for them.

On a more practical note, one's rank gives a great snapshot of their character, as much as their service and their occupation does. That leads to more efficient interactions and relations building.

Response by PO3 Walt Craig made Jan 20 at 2019 9:27 PM

PO3 Walt Craig — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 21:27:43 -0500

ssss

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Jan 21 at 2019 12:22 AM

SSG Jess Peters — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 00:22:53 -0500

It matters little to me what a persons rank was at the time of retirement. Those that earned the rank of Col. or higher I give more consideration to.
In my experience, some didn't deserve what they got. Others never got what they deserved.
After retirement, we move on to different experiences, education, and goals. We continue to grow and develop in many ways. The one thing we have in common, a very important thing is we served. Doesn't matter if you were a clerk, a mechanic, a tanker, a grunt, or special ops. We all did a job that was essential.to the mission of our services, and for our country. No job is too small or unimportant.
In the end all that really matters is we stepped up when the vast majority did not.

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made Jan 21 at 2019 3:30 AM

SSG Marshall Paul — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 03:30:19 -0500

At 70 years old, we figure out former rank and such, but you know it doesn't matter. We talk about grandkids and what we are about now. Vietnam vets figure out pretty quick who were booney rats and who were support and we cherish the other guy that did his job with integrity. And we have figured out that being an 11B enlisted gets us respect, sure, but anybody could have done it. The NVA draftee did it, millions of soldiers have done it. My old man did it in WW One. The rich guys in suits have always sent us off to fight for them, but we only fight for our buddies. As you approach dotage it becomes clear you won't survive this life and that's a pretty cool thing when you know you might have bought it at 18.

Response by PO1 Robert George made Jan 21 at 2019 2:58 PM

PO1 Robert George — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:58:47 -0500

My observation is that the military member understands the rank/rate structure across the services and shows respect accordingly. The spouses, esp in officer ranks, tend to wear it on their sleeves and go out of their way to put that in your face.

Response by CMSgt Thomas Harris made Jan 21 at 2019 5:06 PM

CMSgt Thomas Harris — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 17:06:00 -0500

i respect all ,but once you leave active duty the rank card should not apply. i am good friends with a air force Maj General retired and he goes by his first name and i am a Retired Chief Master Sergeant and i am fine with anyone calling me TJ

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 22 at 2019 11:32 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:32:32 -0500

As a Veteran Myself, I haven't had any associates who ever played the rank card, some of them I've addressed by rank to show My respect for their service and accomplishment but it wasn't something they expected. Even in our American Legion Post We have people that range from Senior Officers to lower enlisted ranks. We all as Veterans have mutual respect for one another and the common bond that all of us served. Even on while still in Air Force uniform the real leaders didn't talk down to Me in fact they did pay attention and more often than not when they asked My opinion they did what i had suggested. The very few Officers I found that didn't have that attitude usually also didn't have that same rise in rank and responsibility but then in My opinion tended to be the exception. I think most of us retain a mutual respect for each other.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 11:39 AM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:39:29 -0500

Sir,
We get something like that in our local American Legion. There are several Senior Enlisted Active Duty Retirees and one U.S. Army Major Retiree plus Veterans that put the few of us down for being Reserve Retirees. Always cracking jokes. The few of us that retired in the Reserves, are all Retired Reserve Officers. Myself, an Army Reserve Chaplain(CPT), two Warrants, one Coast Guard Reserve WO4, one Army National Guard CW3, one Air Force Reserve LtCol and a Marine Corps Reserve Lieutenant Colonel. Why? Knowing that the few of us that retired in the Reserve Component also served on Active Duty before joining the Reserves. Neither would make a difference though. Service to Nation is Service. It’s a choice. Personally, I got to see the best of both. Serving on Active Duty in the USMC and U.S. Army, then transitioned over to service with the Ohio Army National Guard and retiring in the U.S. Army Reserve. Such as it is. You are correct, we all serve a common purpose.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 4:10 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:10:59 -0500

B/c that wife is to wrapped up in her husbands career she realized she gave up her own. Honestly I have no idea. The way some women want to "pretend" that they have anything to do with their husbands rank annoys me to no end...no darling you are not a major...your a civilian. If you don't like that join up or shut up...

I'm an officer raised by two enlisted, by parents met and married in the service in the 80's. Outside of the squadron unless i'm your supervisor the name is Brenna...

So to sum it up...some people just suck

Response by MAJ Terry LaFrance made Jan 22 at 2019 7:43 PM

MAJ Terry LaFrance — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 19:43:18 -0500

That's the wives' problems.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Jan 22 at 2019 9:31 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 21:31:46 -0500

My Army brat wife has never played the rank card. When I was XO of a Warrant Officer Candidate Company, she had the responsibility of teaching the candidate wives military customs. They were taught that they didn't have rank but their husbands did. Haven't had that problem since I have retired.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jan 22 at 2019 10:59 PM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:59:57 -0500

I was in the army. In Vietnam I was in the 205th. Ord. Plt. My CO. was a 1st. Lt. I was designated as supply sgt, Armorer, CBR tech. We were not authorized any of these MOS.s I had been in the Marine corp 4yrs. I had experience with weapons Supply, and CBR. I also went to the leader ship academy at Ft. Knox. so I ended up being the go to person something or someone was needed, I was a SP/5. 40 yrs later after I retired I found the Co. on the internet. He and his wife stopped off in Ohio and visited my wife and I. What supprised me the most was that he retired as a colonel. We still communicate at Christmas every year. Semper fi.

Response by MSgt Samuel Thornton made Jan 23 at 2019 10:08 AM

MSgt Samuel Thornton — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 10:08:17 -0500

When I went in the Air Force, I worked telephone maintenance. We maintained the base, and in house for base housing. The priority policy was the base troubles were first then once the base was taken care of, then we sent available crews to work housing troubles. In housing we were responsible for two working jacks, one in the master bedroom, and one either in the kitchen or living room. I was working the trouble desk one morning and I got a call from a Colonel's wife. She said one of her jacks wasn't working and I needed to send some one out "right now." I said, "ma'am" and proceeded to explain how the priorities worked with regards to housing. She got upset, and went on a bit of a rant, and then ultimately she asked that infamous question, "Do you know who I am?" to which I replied, no Ma'am I don't. And she proceeded to tell me "I'm Col. Such and Such's wife." I politely told her, "Thank you Ma'am, I will make a note of that on the trouble ticket. And we will have a crew out to take care of the trouble as soon as we have one available." She wasn't happy with that response and hung up. A few minutes later, I got a call from Col Such and Such. "I understand my wife is having trouble getting someone out to fix our phone in base housing." I told him "No, Sir." and proceeded to explain how our telephone troubles are prioritized. When I was done, he told me, "Sounds fair enough to me. Thank you." And that was the end of our conversation. Not even 10 minutes later, his wife called back, asked for me by name and apologized to me. That is one of my biggest pet peeves, when a dependent tries to wear the rank of their military family member. Using tact and diplomacy, I loved making life hard for them without making it obvious that this is what was happening and that I was the cause of it. I had one young airman try that while we were deployed to a combat zone. I never put him in harms way, but it just so happened, that for the duration of that deployment, he managed to end up on most every shit detail that came down.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2019 7:50 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:50:53 -0500

Insecurity and self centeredness makes for bad command morale when elitism is demonstrated by higher ranking personnel

Response by TSgt James Lacey made Jan 24 at 2019 8:16 AM

TSgt James Lacey — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 08:16:26 -0500

There is some truth to the fact that people get hung up on rank. I have seen it at the VA, but most vets at the VA tend to address others by their name or branch of service. After one is retired, although they may have been a senior NCO or an officer they are once again civilians. I do not call civilians by some designated reference to their job or position by name. That goes for all retired or seperated servicemen. They araen't col or sgt, they are joe, jim, bob, or whatever. Rank means nothing when you are no longer in the military.

Response by SFC Douglas Hull made Jan 24 at 2019 7:38 PM

SFC Douglas Hull — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:38:09 -0500

things change after you retire, most of the individuals you will run into could care less what your rank was. Many do not know the ranks period what is relevant to them is who you are as a person. to many a veteran is just that a veteran, they could care less for anything else. Mainly because it is not relevant to their view of the world. I got my college degree after I retired so I am entitled to place RET SFC BS after my name, but does any form allow this? not even the PC forms for dealing with the Governmental allow this, it is not relevant to them until I get my grave marker. so the question is is it relevant to your audience or function?: Also, My wife did not wear my rank and many of the other wives did not also, she volunteered as a volunteer for AER food banks and working with the lending lockers.

Response by MSG Kevin Elliott made Jan 24 at 2019 7:45 PM

MSG Kevin Elliott — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:45:59 -0500

I don't know if it's ego or what, but I have seen service members and spouses who almost insist on it. As an Ops SGM, I worked with the Protocol Officer for seating at events and high ranking visitors and wives were seated by rank, active duty and retired. I also had CSMs, SGMs, and 1SGs I worked for, who retired and told me to call them Bob, Bill, Dwayne, etc. But they were always Sergeant Major or First Sergeant. Respect, given for shared service, not something insisted on by the individual.
I remember one General's wife who was always worried about the people in the Commissary and PX having to work on holidays. She thought the places should be closed so the spouses could be with their families.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Jan 24 at 2019 7:53 PM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:53:39 -0500

I address them out of respect and I, e been retired simce 1980. It is the same for former Presidents, Congress and Senators, Judges and so on.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Jan 24 at 2019 9:12 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:12:58 -0500

Some of us do, or did when, when we were on Active duty, now that I'm retired I'll only let someone know what rank I held if asked, otherwise it's NOYB

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Jan 25 at 2019 6:28 AM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 06:28:28 -0500

I agree with Mike here - while we were in thge services we were required to address each other by rank. However, once retired then it becomes a matter of respect. I still have people who knew me while I was on Active Duty that address me as LTC. I usually acknowledge the respect, stop them, and tell them to call me Lee. That being said my wife has had some encounters were she was disrespected because oof my service. I usually don't react very well to those incidents.

Response by CCMSgt Joe Dehorty made Jan 25 at 2019 12:25 PM

CCMSgt Joe Dehorty — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:25:55 -0500

That depends on the situation. Why are ex-members of congress called by "Senator or Representative"? It has to do with "respect". If a person doesn't call me Chief, I don't get upset or demand the title nor would I expect my wife to have the same privileges, (parking, ETC.) that I do. However, I do get upset when another military member addresses me as "sarge".

Response by CW4 Leonard Glasser made Jan 26 at 2019 6:26 PM

CW4 Leonard Glasser — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 18:26:33 -0500

The reason being given for not 'liking' someone is not rational. I always address people out of respect and congratulate them on their accomplishments. I would suggest the following >> I've always thought that people need to feel good about themselves and I see my role as offering support to them, to provide some light along the way. Leo Buscaglia :-)

Response by CAPT Steve E. made Jan 26 at 2019 7:37 PM

CAPT Steve E. — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 19:37:55 -0500

The only time I have used the “rank card” is with jerks who do so. I am retired, and most of my non-military friends know I was in the Navy, but not my rank. My military friends know because most of them were in with me at various times. Spouses seem to encounter more “rank” than service members do in my experience as well.

Response by CPT Earl George made Jan 28 at 2019 11:27 AM

CPT Earl George — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:27:54 -0500

I never ask a vet what her/his rank was. If they mention it in the conversation, so be it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2019 6:06 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 06:06:56 -0500

I must agree with your observation though I have found it more prevalent in the medical community. Here a neurosurgeon (and some spouses) out rank the internist.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Jan 31 at 2019 6:02 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Thu, 31 Jan 2019 18:02:19 -0500

One of my best church friends is a former Navy captain....John and I tell stories and joke a lot and have never let rank get in the way because, even though we can use it as an identifier, it has become a part of our past, not the present. Now, that's not to say we don't still show the same respect, but when we realize we can and do drop the rank consciousness we usually find that relationships are closer and have a tendency to grow deeper because of our mutual backgrounds and circumstances. Using rank after leaving duty is still a sign of respect, but so is calling someone by their given name.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Feb 7 at 2019 12:46 PM

SFC Michael Arabian — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:46:15 -0500

The rank belongs to the service member not the spouse. I personally retired back in 2012 and could care less if I get referred to by my rank while I was in, just show me the respect I deserve as a person

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Feb 9 at 2019 10:30 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 22:30:02 -0500

There are always fools who think they own a thing, such is NOT theirs to own; they are stewards of it, nothing more and should be reminded so!

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Feb 11 at 2019 12:26 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 00:26:22 -0500

No arguments, on the other hand, I have never run into the rank issue. If anything the opposite. Maybe that's because USCG units are as a rule very small. In my 10 years of service, outside of service schools, the largest unit I served in had 87 officers and crew. The average was likely somewhere between 15 and 20. The smallest being an electronics support facility with a MCPO as O-in-C and a PO-1 (me) as XPO. The largest outside the ship being about 25 or so. When units are that small, especially in an isolated locale, they become family in many ways.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2019 6:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Feb 2019 18:59:17 -0500

It's significant that spouses who are not military retirees have no rank. Spouses of senior officers don't get GO/FO parking any more than spouses of disabled get handicap parking. But we should recognize that if you are retired from the Regular Army, according to US Law, you remain in the service on the retired list. If that makes you unhappy, you're remedy is with Congress. As a government employee, I am always "Mr.", but when speaking with USAA, they always promote me from LTC to "telephone COL" consistent with common addressing. After promotion to LTC, we went to get new ID cards and in the middle of the process, my wife asked me where the Colonel was. I explained the Soldiers were speaking to me and she said, "But you call yourself say Lieutenant Colonel." I told her, yes, that's absolutely right. To be fair, I was a MAJ and a Joint Specialty Officer when we married - so she never saw the other Army we keep at Ft. Hood"

Response by LTC William Oliver made Feb 26 at 2019 10:19 AM

LTC William Oliver — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:19:15 -0500

I thought that only folk who retired from the military were permitted to display or claim rank. That would mean that most vets shouldn't be dealing with this at all.

Response by SGT Jim Chorazy made Feb 28 at 2019 3:31 AM

SGT Jim Chorazy — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 03:31:36 -0500

For one-termers e.g. E4's or E5's, it's really all about what you have done in the years since - many civilian jobs (to include some, but obviously not all, in Fed Civilian Agencies) take on much more responsibilty, and comparing say a Fed GS-13 with a peacetime E6 strains credulity.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Mar 3 at 2019 11:12 PM

1SG Dale Cantrell — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 23:12:46 -0500

Military rank is earned thru the blood , swear and years. Every year you stay in the older guys hammer you, every year you stay in the younger guys hammer you, My Col, LTC, Major, CPT, LT, SMG, 1stSG, PSG remain at that rank, in or out of uniform, 20yrs ago and today

Response by RADM(U) Pepe Castillo made Mar 5 at 2019 8:18 AM

RADM(U) Pepe Castillo — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 08:18:22 -0500

Spouses have no rank, unless they are in the military as well.

Response by SSG James Harlow made Mar 16 at 2019 2:04 PM

SSG James Harlow — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:04:23 -0400

I work at a place that manufactures “things” for the services. We have many Veterans and active troops on site. I use the rank of the active duty folks but the rest of us just go by first name. We never use our old ranks because they are no longer important. We had a new VP come in and we had conversations about the Army. It wasn’t until he had been here for a year that I found out he was a retired LTG. He just introduced himself as Michael.

Response by CPT Mark Brogan made Mar 18 at 2019 10:29 PM

CPT Mark Brogan — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 22:29:55 -0400

Being a very active member of my veteran community I interact with all ranks of veterans, from e-1 to 0-8 on a friendly first name basis. Rank is what we did in the past not what we are now.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 18 at 2019 11:19 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 23:19:04 -0400

I never understood spouses wearing the service member's rank in the first place. And I DOUBLY didn't understand the service member letting the spouse get away with it. I had a BC's wife tell a group of NCO's that they will address her as "Ma'am," not as "Mrs. X" because her husband was a LTC.... right in front of the BC. Who just smiled and nodded. And then later she said pretty much the same to a group of spouses (although not in front of the BC this time).

That (to me) is the bigger problem here, sir. Spouses don't have rank, but a lot of them sure seem to think they do.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2019 2:30 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 14:30:44 -0400

A few years ago, a civ coworker, ret AF E8 and his wife, another coworker, related the life of a spouse in the military... very stressful... in the old days, the military supported and defended the service member first and foremost and totally disregarded the rights of the spouse... they were treated as second class citizens, especially with regard to children, their health care, certan decisions had to bed initiated by the service member, etc and especially if domestic violence was reported or suspected, or the member was TDY and unreachable, much the case before the internet and cell phones and improvements to our policies and initiatives in SARC... my mom herself related that she too felt this way after 8 yrs AD support, 3 kids, international travel, and 30 plus yrs in Retirement..

So the spouse thing may be immaturity or it may be years of emotional abuse at the hands of a domineering military spouse AND the military system...

Always think about the other persons perspective before you condem, you dont know what kind of day or life they're having...

US Navy Reserve, 30 plus years
16 years civilian law enforcement
13 yrs IT, gov't contractor

Response by TSgt Mike Pastelok made Mar 21 at 2019 8:26 AM

TSgt Mike Pastelok — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 08:26:00 -0400

After separating or retirement there is no rank in the civilian sector. The respect is that we all served our country.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2019 9:40 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:40:33 -0400

You don't carry your rank into retirement unless you are a general or colonel. Or a chief, either warrant or enlisted (Master Chief). These titles are customary and have been around a long time. It is a sign of respect for someone who held the highest position of their branch. I guess it all comes down to respect. In civilian life, if you were a Chief of Police, it is common for people to refer to you as Chief in retirement.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2019 10:31 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:31:01 -0400

Wives should never hold 'rank'. Sorry, I misread the question. My wife would never think to do that. I know in past decades, officers' wives did hold sway. (Think the movie 'We were soldiers once' portrayed that). Those days are pretty much gone. My wife did get a kick out of people saluting the car though.

Response by PO1 Richard Nyberg made Mar 31 at 2019 2:00 PM

PO1 Richard Nyberg — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 14:00:54 -0400

I have been retired since Jan 1988, I never tell anyone what my rank was unless they ask me what my rate was, then I tell them. I have known retired officers that were Col. And Navy Cpts and I called most of them by their first names but until they tell I usually say sir to them out of respect that they earned and deserve.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Mar 31 at 2019 7:50 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 19:50:03 -0400

Some of us call the S/M or RET S/M by rank out a sign of Respct.
How ever if they expect it, And they are not A/D or you are not A/D.
Then they can go Salut them selfs.

Response by SCPO Carl Wayne Boss made Apr 3 at 2019 2:22 PM

SCPO Carl Wayne Boss — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 14:22:45 -0400

My wife thanks ALL Veterans for their Service, As far as any one's "Rank" goes, to her that is merely interesting! The one Veteran she really respects to the Max, is Her Brother Bruce, Who was an Army Ranger/Green Beret/Paratrooper who Served 6 Tours in Vietnam. He's got several Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and the CMH among others... He gave all his Medals to My kids because he doesn't believe He deserves them!?

I'm with You Colonel Show Respect for ALL Who've served, beyond that, it was a job, and we ALL did what was required by our respective Jobs and Rank at the time. I was a Crash/Rescue Firefighter and Search & Rescue Boat Driver, I was required to retire before I really wanted to, I was sitting on top of the Master Chief Promotion List, but was Retired as a Senior Chief Petty Officer with 35 Years of Service. I Served between the U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Air Force and Arizona Air National Guard. I feel I was robbed of My Master Chief's Star, but like every Service there is a certain amount of "Politics"!

Response by SSG Charlie Davis made Apr 6 at 2019 8:11 PM

SSG Charlie Davis — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 20:11:14 -0400

I grew up in close association with the Marines at the Kaneohe Marine Corps Base, Hawaii back in the late 50's and 60's. Being around the marines taught me that rank was an achievement and demanded respect whatever the grade (outside of basic, of course). Back in those days, a warrant officer was a former enlisted man and a combat veteran of WWII and/or Korea. These WO's or "Gunners" were held in high regard and respect by enlisted and officers alike. To this day, there are still marked stalls reserved for senior WO's and even a WO-1 at the Officers Club at K-Bay! I learned by watching to always refer to those with prior service by their rank of retirement or of service. Since, I never neglected to refer to: General Helmick, USA-R; General Ott, USA-R; Captain Ross, (CMH) USN-R; Colonel R. Mitchell, USAAF (USAF); Captain J. Mitchell, USN-R: Colonel Fields, USMC-R; GySgt Kellogg, (CMH) - USMC-R; Gunner Morgan, USMC-R; Gunner Hickok, USMC-R; and, my son; Staff Sergeant Davis USMC-MARSOC - Active - Camp Lejeune, just to name a few - without prefacing with their rank. Here's the deal, though, you say it once on the initial greeting of the day together with a salute and a handshake, then it's "yes sir" for the rest of the day until the interaction is done, then it's "good night or good day General or Colonel," or what ever their rank is and its' over until the next time. Totally old-school - I am not a prude - but it works and the respect is obviously accepted and appreciated by the acknowledgement from those who absolutely deserve it.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Apr 7 at 2019 9:53 AM

SGT Juan Robledo — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 09:53:16 -0400

I understand what your asking but I myself as a Veteran and former Sgt/E5, I just believe it's a sign of respect, I have family members who served and quite a few retired but I address them by their birth names but your right military spouses don't have actual rank but sooner will act differently to others spouses it's probably hasn't sunk in that their spouses and as such will get respect if they themselves show others the sameand they're not so high and mighty

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Apr 7 at 2019 5:14 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 17:14:26 -0400

Agree in an environment such as we have here, using someone's current or former rank as an introduction to other military types. Out in the world (so to speak), I seldom use mine or others' military rank. However, it is nice when an active duty member salutes in recognition for my service and respects my former grade. It also has some benefit to obtaining a little better accommodations in temporary quarters, if available. It also improves my retirement check a bit too (always good).

What torques me more than anything about former military is when they are providing "expert" advice about active deployment situations to a bunch of talking heads, who call the former military by their former military rank as if it provides some credibility to their verbal meanderings. Those Vets are providing a great disservice and may be adding to placing deployed military in danger by trying to second guess the commanders and the military on the ground: They should know better.

Appreciate your patience about my rant for today. Hooah!

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Apr 7 at 2019 11:11 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 23:11:09 -0400

I tell people who call me Sir to stop! I stopped being a Sir in 1987! Course now it's cause I'm OLD! LOL

Response by SGT Steve Zarycki made Apr 8 at 2019 7:30 AM

SGT Steve Zarycki — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 07:30:58 -0400

Forget the rank card. How about the MOS card. Like if you weren't in a Combat arms MOS apparently you didn't serve.

Response by SFC Steve Wood made Apr 9 at 2019 10:24 AM

SFC Steve Wood — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:24:01 -0400

Sounds like the majors wife needs to realize that the rank or her husbands veteran status does not extend to her. I too am retired and I have come across many people who like to argue or feel they deserve preferential treatment because their husband/wife/son/daughter/father or whoever served in the military.

Response by SFC Steve Wood made Apr 9 at 2019 10:29 AM

SFC Steve Wood — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:29:17 -0400

I think as someone else has mentioned it, the majors wife needs to understand that her husbands rank and certainly his veteran status does not extend to her. Too many people I have come across feel that they deserve certain privileges because their husband/wife/child or parent served in the military. Last I remember, I didn't serve in the military or decide to retire from it for a 10% discount from Home Depot or a free Bloomin Onion from Outback Steaks on Veterans day. I certainly didn't serve because it allows me to admonish someone else from having a different political point of view than mine. Last I remembered I joined up for ME, and ME alone, and my reasons are my own.

Response by CPT Edward Barr made Apr 9 at 2019 1:30 PM

CPT Edward Barr — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 13:30:11 -0400

Prejudice is prejudice, no matter the source. If someone doesn't like a person, because of their spouse's rank, the assumption of negativity is the prejudice of the person making it. You don't want that person in your life, more than what is socially and protocol necessary, anyway.
As far as rank after service: Those who demand rank are the same as those who demanded respect when active. They neither earned it, nor deserve it. To call someone by their rank, after service, is a sign of respect deserved; until they show otherwise. Even when speaking to a person I have become familiar with, especially a person I respect, I will not call them by their first name, until they offer it. But, I suppose that's just our generation.

Response by PVT Alejandro Rivera made Apr 9 at 2019 5:41 PM

PVT Alejandro Rivera — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 17:41:58 -0400

I am retired ARMY,when someone asks what rank I was when I retired I tell them PFC,Proud...Civilian.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2019 9:44 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 09:44:02 -0400

Treating people with respect and dignity isn’t as common among certain people. If someone doesn’t treat people with respect, don’t take it personal, they probably have a miserable life, so move on and let those people be turds to their the people around them until they figure out why no one wants to be around them. Some lessons just aren’t learned until people hit rock bottom.

Response by CW3 Phillip Coleman made Apr 10 at 2019 10:07 AM

CW3 Phillip Coleman — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:07:23 -0400

You are so correct. I was enlisted for 7 years then went to flight school and because a warrant officer for 14 years until I retired. When I was on duty, I was Mr. but off duty I used my first name and expected others to do the same. Now I am a college professor with a doctorate and while I expect my students to use Dr. or Professor, I lose this out of the classroom and when addressed by Dr. I correct them with my first name. But I have been around people that demand to be called Dr. all the time and my guess is that they are terribly insecure and need this to justify their existence. How sad.

Response by SPC Robert Gilhuly made Apr 10 at 2019 2:07 PM

SPC Robert Gilhuly — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:07:38 -0400

They obviously suffer from little person syndrome

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made Apr 10 at 2019 5:07 PM

SPC Martin Meyer — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 17:07:28 -0400

If I served with an officer I would address him by rank out of respect (if the officer earned it). I remember watching Band of Brothers and in one of the scenes Col. Winters dresses down a lower ranking officer do not remember the name. What I learned is you salute the rank whether or not you respect the individual and to me that carries on into civilian life. I was always thought to address someone as Mr. or Miss or Mrs. or Doctor just as a sign of respect.
The sad part is there is always someone who feels they are more important than other people because they have money or rank or they are celebrities; all consider themselves as elites and more important than the rest of us and do not deserve any respect at all.

Response by SgtMaj Joe Armstrong made Apr 10 at 2019 8:53 PM

SgtMaj Joe Armstrong — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:53:08 -0400

1- WRONG QUESTION - "Her husband is a retired Major" - Her ID CARD still says "dependent" PERIOD. Your wifes ID CARD still says "dependent" PERIOD. That Marine wife should have been put in her place and it's still not too late.
2- Use of rank after retirement (longevity or disability) is a matter of pride, courtesy and professionalism. Use it properly and respectfully or be prepared to get your ass chewed.

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Apr 10 at 2019 11:35 PM

SGT Bryan O'Reilly — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:35:34 -0400

I've seen a few responses to this and thought I'd chime in. Gen Hal Moore Once said that we few who serve are more than just troops, we are a fraternity of service bound by our oath to the constitution And to the miilitary fellowship we all share. and as such, should stay actively involved after seperation through mentorship and by representing our service in a manner befitting and encouraging service in others. COC is as essential to our mission as unit cohesien. And with a few idiot frat-boy exceptions, we've all encountered, all rank is earned and merits the respect.
Tradition, honor and pride are fleeting values in the world around us and it's essential for us to maintain them.
Bayonet!

Response by SFC Kenneth Mcfadden made Apr 11 at 2019 7:04 AM

SFC Kenneth Mcfadden — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 07:04:43 -0400

I retired as an E7 in the marine corp i served combat in 4 countries and we as fellow countrymen need to respect all ranks of all branches no matter what your level was i think that it is disrespectful to use rank to denote your manhood statistics show that homelessness is in all ranks after serve to the military rank will not matter at the end of your life if Christ is not the center

Response by SGT Rosi Teresi made Apr 11 at 2019 8:31 AM

SGT Rosi Teresi — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:31:28 -0400

The major's WIFE has NO rank. She is just another damn CIVILIAN

Response by SGT Rosi Teresi made Apr 11 at 2019 8:43 AM

SGT Rosi Teresi — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:43:26 -0400

What RANK does the major's wife wear on her collar?? NONE?? Well, the, she is just another snooty, witch civilian, isn't she??

Response by SGT Rosi Teresi made Apr 11 at 2019 8:55 AM

SGT Rosi Teresi — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:55:32 -0400

Why can't some people stick to the topic. This ISN'T about what rank YOU earned. It IS about SNOOTY, CIVILIAN, DEPENDENT, WIVES who think they are God's gift.

Response by CWO3 Bryan Luciani made Apr 11 at 2019 10:45 AM

CWO3 Bryan Luciani — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 10:45:59 -0400

As both a senior enlisted and as an officer I've seen the rank politics in many forms. I only refer to retired senior or flag officers by their rank for one reason. Most appreciate it. I don't expect someone to call me "Warrant" or "Senior Chief" anymore than I want them calling me by my last name. It works for some and I'm cool with that. I feel sorry for the wives as they have to deal with more of this bs than I ever did.

Here's a funny wife story though. I'm standing in line at the PX in San Diego waiting to check out. A woman in her 50s carrying three or four items walks by me (I'm in uniform), a LtCdr (in uniform), and another lady at the front of the line and puts her stuff on the belt. The lady that got cut says, "Hey, there's a line here." The older lady says, "I'm Admiral Jones' wife and I'm in a hurry." The second lady says, "Well that means we're both sleeping with a sailor, get back in line." The Admiral's wife looks at the LtCdr and me and says, "Are you going to let her talk to me like that?" We looked at each other and moved to another line without saying a word.

So, yes, there are creepy people out their that wear their rank or their spouses rank for one reason. Their "What they are" is more important to them than their "Who they are". It's known as the "who vs. what" struggle. If you lose your power and respect when you take off the collar device, you will have a tough time in the civilian sector. Guaranteed.

Response by Cpl Joseph Heaphy made Apr 11 at 2019 11:35 AM

Cpl Joseph Heaphy — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:35:09 -0400

It's because we're always in competition.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Apr 12 at 2019 5:50 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:50:13 -0400

It's a long-standing stereotype. Long ago, some 'wife' with not a lot upstairs thought her husband's rank gave her power. New Flash: It doesn't. She didn't go through Basic, AIT, and earn the same rank.
I don't care who the wife of a military person is concerning this. If she has her own rank it's a different story. It's the same as "Honey. This wife of another soldier disrespected me so do something or no sex for you." type of thing. Luckily and my then-wife didn't run into that.

Response by SSG Bobby Castle made Apr 13 at 2019 8:25 AM

SSG Bobby Castle — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 08:25:32 -0400

To be rather honest I see this much less then when I was on active duty. I had a spouse once ask me if I knew who her husband was and I told no, and she got all puffed up. I then I asked her when did she enlist or get commissioned and she was My husband is the soldier not me and I reply you're correct and therefore his rank has been earned you have no entitle to it. Good day Ma'am..needless to say she turned about two shades of red and stormed off.

Response by SPC Corey Blue made Apr 13 at 2019 8:33 AM

SPC Corey Blue — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 08:33:28 -0400

This is a classic case of what we call “depandaitis” and a bane to every servicemember and now I see it goes on in the Veteran community as well. Its a mental disability where the spouse of a servicemember will associate their husband/wife’s rank as theirs as well. It is toxic and should be addressed because it is a cancer amongst the community. At any rate, its best to talk to her husband about it and go from there. His rank is not hers and she should never put herself above any other due to the simple fact that she holds no rank at all.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Apr 13 at 2019 11:54 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 11:54:36 -0400

Ridiculous. Rank belongs within the military. Anyone who is so impressed with him/herself should avoid social media, including RallyPoint.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Apr 13 at 2019 11:55 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 11:55:45 -0400

Ridiculous! Rank belongs within the military, not social media (including RallyPoint). Anyone that impressed with him/herself should avoid social media.

Response by 1SG Donald Elmore made Apr 15 at 2019 12:07 PM

1SG Donald Elmore — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 12:07:40 -0400

When I speak to a Veteran or a retired member of the service I will mention rank to show respect to that person. After retirement I usually use the person first name, but will mention rank to show them respect. Some times I am called First Sergeant or top. If I am with a lower rank person I will also show them respect for the rank they achieved. Normally only an Officer's wife will be the one showing lack of respect for a lower rank.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Apr 15 at 2019 12:50 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 12:50:40 -0400

I've read a lot of comments on this thread and on many others... Wives (spouses) of military members deserve respect, they have undergone hardship and served to support their spouse in his/her career. As such they deserve respect, but that doesn't mean they should feel entitled to partake of the privileges of the rank their spouse has attained. As to the rest of the comments, especially those referring to those who prefer to be addressed by their rank as "insecure" I say "bull". If a veteran prefers to be addressed by his/her rank one should honor that preference; they have earned their rank through hard work and dedication to their nation. When I am on a military base being addressed by military personnel, I prefer to be addressed as Senior - not Sir - I earned it and I am proud of it. Far prouder of that achievement than my subsequent BS in Computer Information Systems. There is no snobbery or insecurity in that preference; I treat others with the same respect unless they are my personal friends or they prefer otherwise. If one cannot bring oneself to treat a veteran or active duty servicemember with that degree of respect, perhaps one is suffering from some form of insecurity themselves. Nothing but love tho...

Response by Sgt Phil Quintana made Apr 15 at 2019 3:03 PM

Sgt Phil Quintana — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:03:02 -0400

IMHO, anyone who plays that nonsense is either insecure in themselves, is jealous of other's success or lacks professionalism, on the active duty side. On the civilian side, it's a disgrace. To me, it shows what kind of military service member they were while on active duty.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2019 2:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 14:44:53 -0400

Legends in their own Mind. Lots of them running around. I ran an alternative program (private) for those who liked to medicate themselves and keep it off the books. Once had a general tell me I need to call him by such or Sir...so David and I had a meeting of the minds. I explained he was David before anything and will leave this earth David and the reason he was into self-abuse was he misplaced David along the way. Ranking people seem to command their household in the same fashion and spouses can be as bad. No one can make anyone feel inferior unless they allow them to.

Response by SSG J F Texas made Apr 18 at 2019 7:09 PM

SSG J F Texas — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 19:09:41 -0400

It makes them feel important and sooths their insecurities. I respect people's former positions and rank but it mean little to me after the have left the service.

Response by SP5 Rod Bernsen made Apr 25 at 2019 11:38 AM

SP5 Rod Bernsen — Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:38:18 -0400

My understanding is that anyone who is "sworn" into an "office" is entitled to their designation. A president-senator-representative is entitled to that title when they leave office.

Response by Frank Godek made Apr 29 at 2019 2:48 PM

Frank Godek — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:48:54 -0400

It sometimes seems like spouses are more rank conscious than active duty servicemembers. A good friend of mine had been the Cubmaster of a Cub Scout Pack that was nearly 100% comprised of sons of active duty soldiers. At the time, her husband was a Lieutenant Colonel. The CG's son was a member of the Pack and the General attended one of the Pack's family camps. After dinner, the General approached my friend an asked how he could help so she asked him if he could help with the dishes. He said that he could and that's what he started doing. My friend was approached by some of the other ladies who were at camp who told her that she couldn't tell the General to wash dishes. Her response was that he was dad on a campout and that he wasn't there as the CG. The other ladies were flabbergasted by her response. I don't think it hurt her husband's career. When they PCS'd, his next assignment was as a battalion commander.

Response by Lt Col Charles Grimes made May 1 at 2019 7:56 PM

Lt Col Charles Grimes — Wed, 01 May 2019 19:56:51 -0400

Not my story, but a former Wing Commander's story from when he was a butter bar flying B-47s.

His crew flew from Base X to Base Y and after turning the jet over to maintenance they headed for the O'Club and the bar. When they sat down, the bartender apologized but he couldn't serve them yet, the bar area was being used for a Wives Club meeting chaired by the Wing Commander's (Colonel) wife.

After a back on forth over the fact that the Club and bar were open and its was happy hour, said spouse comes over and asks the aircraft commander (a Major) and crew to leave until their meeting was over. He declined and pointed out that he was in the Officer's Club and he was both an Officer and a member and it was already happy hour and he and his crew were having a couple of drinks.

Well, "Mrs. Colonel" got huffy said a few words and ended up with something to the effect of "You don't know who I am". Ya gotta love his reply:

"I know exactly who you are, you're somebodies GD dependent!"

"Mrs Colonel" was apoplectic and precedes to call her husband, recites the story and the Major's retort.

Apparently she didn't like his answer because she slammed the phone down and walked off in a huff.

A few minutes later, the Colonel appears, walks to the bar, joins the crew and orders a round. Seems he told his wife the Major was right--she was someone's dependent.

Response by Sgt Earle Wingate made May 4 at 2019 7:16 AM

Sgt Earle Wingate — Sat, 04 May 2019 07:16:56 -0400

I was an Air Force E-4. I used my GI Bill to get a doctorate in law. I've been a lawyer for 32 years. Most of my colleagues who were military were officers. Some ex-military acquaintances can't see past the E-4. But the best of them understand that there is often a difference between the rank and the man.

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made May 6 at 2019 8:06 PM

SGT Jim Wiseman — Mon, 06 May 2019 20:06:16 -0400

I've heard of that phenomenon in the military. For some reason, some spouses (usually wives) believe that their SM's rank is theirs and treat "lower ranked spouses" differently. Those you usually the types you see on the next Tuesday, anyway. Some officers and senior enlisted spouses serve in organizations like FRG or other similar things. While all spouses are welcome to participate, some spouses take those roles as badges or a symbol of their perceived rank. As far as after Service is done, I like the informality of addressing someone by their first name. If it's a high-ranking officer or NCO, I like to initially address them by their former rank as a sign of respect. Mine is SGT (R), medically retired. Like most of my life, until I get an okay to address someone by first name or deal with them often enough, I will go by last name or full name or by a title if I'm writing/typing it out. As I learned long ago from reading Vincent Bugliosi's books (the attorney who convicted Manson), if I don't know someone well enough, address them more formally. For me, that includes celebrities or public figures. I'll give a little friendly ribbing to anyone who wasn't Army, or even Infantry within the Army, but it's always good-natured. "Chair Force" is one of my favorites for the Blue Boys. We all served, we all get respect from the public, even if they don't know that we aren't all "soldiers." Much love and respect for all the soldiers, sailors, Marines, & airmen out there.

Response by Maj Rob Drury made May 7 at 2019 3:00 PM

Maj Rob Drury — Tue, 07 May 2019 15:00:33 -0400

Sounds like immature jealousy to me.

Response by SGT Chris Kriner made May 8 at 2019 9:58 AM

SGT Chris Kriner — Wed, 08 May 2019 09:58:49 -0400

When my husband was still active I was at the first FRG meeting of a deployment. The officers wives were passing a plate of brownies amongst themselves. I went down and snatched the plate and politely said thank you and took it back and passed it around the enlisted wives. I got "talked" to by a captain's wife saying she was a COs wife and how dare I take the plate. I said "look ma'am, one you have no rank and that technically I out ranked her because I was a disabled vet and an E5 when I got out, so if you have anything to say about it have your husband talk to me!". I absolutely hate it when spouses use their spouses rank! They didn't earn it just like I didn't earn my husband's SSG!

Response by SSG David Phillips made May 8 at 2019 3:41 PM

SSG David Phillips — Wed, 08 May 2019 15:41:48 -0400

I’m retired and when I left that occupation the rank didn’t follow. I am very proud and have a lot of stories but I’m busy making more stories and adding to my life. I have other accomplishments I’m just as proud of such as my Graduate degree and my present job. What defines me is my family and not my career. Career is what puts food on the table and money into my account but my family is my world. Don’t get me wrong for I did enjoy most of my time in the military and do miss parts of that life but won’t trade what I have now. My wife has her own degrees and career and doesn’t need to ever wear my accomplishments. She ran the family support group majority of my 22yrs and has many friends still from that time.

Response by MAJ Pete Joplin made May 8 at 2019 4:30 PM

MAJ Pete Joplin — Wed, 08 May 2019 16:30:09 -0400

I retired 16 years ago, but I will always be a Major. Sometimes I introduce myself as Major, in professional military settings, and recently the local Air Force base called me about a project I'm doing on behalf of a fallen WWII Veteran, I answered the phone as Major. Major is my "title of address" as we call it, just in the same way Doctor is the title of address for PhD, MDs, DDs, etc. I recently earned a Masters from Gonzaga University. Most Professors were younger than I, and almost every one introduced themselves by their first names, and fellow students rarely, if ever, referred to them as Doctor--except me. I figure when I earn a Doctorate, I might be qualified to refer to them so casually.

Response by SGM Michael Womer made May 9 at 2019 11:42 PM

SGM Michael Womer — Thu, 09 May 2019 23:42:29 -0400

I retired from the Army in 1996 as a Sergeant Major. I moved on. The business I was in caused me to interact with many people under whom I served and I also was able to hire several of them. They naturally just called me Sergeant Major, I always assumed it was a matter of that is what they called me for years and an equal dose of respect, I don't need to be called Sergeant Major, but somehow people just say it. guards at the front gate of Fort Hood when we go shopping, cashiers at the PX, customer service people in USAA. In my case I am simply a guy named Mike that happened to serve 23 years, 2 months and 5 days in the United States Army and achieved the rank of Sergeant Major. I served another 23 years years in the Defense Industry with TRW, Inc (Now NGC), ESP LLC, and now AECOM.Titles mean nothing once you leave the Army, what matters is whether you care for people that you work with in teh same manner as you did in uniform.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made May 10 at 2019 2:30 AM

PO2 Louis Fattrusso — Fri, 10 May 2019 02:30:47 -0400

It’s ingrained in our thought process.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made May 10 at 2019 2:31 AM

PO2 Louis Fattrusso — Fri, 10 May 2019 02:31:31 -0400

It’s ingrained in our minds.

Response by MSgt Albert Thomas made May 10 at 2019 9:47 AM

MSgt Albert Thomas — Fri, 10 May 2019 09:47:49 -0400

I have mixed emotions about this. My wife would never use my rank in responding to other women. In fact, although I was enlisted, many officers wives enjoyed her company and advice. I did earn my rank the hard way and feel that the VA should address me as my rank when corresponding to me. I am not insecure. I have a friend who is a retired Lt Col and we don't use the rank between us and I call him be his first name. I am proud that I served my country for over 20 years and also proud that I EARNED the rank that I obtained. I would not use my rank in relationship to others. Sometimes it seems that people did not enjoy the military and so wish to avoid the rank they earned. Like someone said about calling professors by their title, I do the same with my pastor although I have a son his same age. It is called respect.

Response by SFC Jeff Gurchinoff made May 10 at 2019 9:33 PM

SFC Jeff Gurchinoff — Fri, 10 May 2019 21:33:45 -0400

The part I like best is the fact I'm retired.... and therefore don't care. and I agree with some others that if they are clinging to rank after service they are insecure and haven't done anything since obviously to create a new identity for themselves.

Response by CMSgt Martin Church made May 10 at 2019 11:26 PM

CMSgt Martin Church — Fri, 10 May 2019 23:26:41 -0400

In the Military, your rank is for a life time, not just while you are on active duty. Also, the same applies to anyone who earns a Phd, is a Doctor for life. In most cases this Rank does NOT give any special privileges to the individual, but each of them deserves the respect from their peers. Without respect, in any society, there is NO law and ORDER.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 11 at 2019 12:44 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Sat, 11 May 2019 00:44:40 -0400

Even as a civlilan DOD employee I was called chief. One reason I did not go to OCS was because of stuff like you just pointed out. Tell your wife to put a little miss piggy on her car keys and every time she sees this majors wife squezze it. Make sure it is one with noise

Response by PO2 Michael Leslie made May 11 at 2019 7:47 AM

PO2 Michael Leslie — Sat, 11 May 2019 07:47:49 -0400

I separated 50 years ago ...
While in there is/was Military protocol & regulations .
Once out in formal settings I used Rank, Rate, Pay Grade, Speciality etc as a sign of respect early on and then changed to actual names ... in informal settings it was all about good natured harassment and talking about the old days & at 72 years I don’t think i’m changing ...

Response by SFC Quincy Felthauser made May 11 at 2019 11:40 AM

SFC Quincy Felthauser — Sat, 11 May 2019 11:40:03 -0400

Because some people wear their rank after retirement. Mostly those senior in rank. Those wives who wear their husbands rank, and we know they exist; ruin it for all. It happens...

Response by Robert Janisse made May 11 at 2019 6:37 PM

Robert Janisse — Sat, 11 May 2019 18:37:10 -0400

Colonel, your wife should have pulled rank on the SpouseMajor!

Some wives just don't get it, just because their husband is military doesn't mean they are. Spousal rank is only a courtesy.

Response by SPC Jordan Sutich made May 11 at 2019 6:50 PM

SPC Jordan Sutich — Sat, 11 May 2019 18:50:43 -0400

RESPECT!!

Response by GySgt William Hardy made May 12 at 2019 10:01 AM

GySgt William Hardy — Sun, 12 May 2019 10:01:52 -0400

I see two sides to this. The first is that some of us have been tagged with the nickname. It has nothing to do with extending or former authority over others or to highlight any level of importance. I have a friend who works for the Post Office. He served in the Navy and then joined the Army National Guard. He was a well built and he was called "Sarge" at work. Many of my friends call me Gunny. It's just a nickname. Get over it.

There are those that use former rank after they leave the military to bolster their self-esteem. You can use whichever argument you want about why they do it, but whether you were a 1st Sergeant or a Colonel, it ends when you leave the military.

I disagree with Ginny Morton's statement, "That's the same as a PhD demands others to call him/her "doctor". That is not true as far as I am concerned. Earning a PhD on the civilian side is the same as earning a rank in the military. It is earned and they are entitled to be called Doctor if they so desire, or not, but that is their call.

In so far as a spouse of a military member is concerned, they do, if fact, hold a defacto title. As Nicholas Ortiz said, there are many circumstances when the spouses take over and it is done by rank. A prime example was shown in "We Were Soldiers" when the Colonel's wife kept the wives together while the unit was in Vietnam. I remember once when the Commandant of the Marine Corps was going to visit our base and the Colonel's wife had the duty of organizing social activities for both the Commandant's wife and the official dinner. Now, depending upon what happens after retirement, wives are often in charge of the social activities, former military or not. If one is not comfortable with that idea, then one should change social groups. If the games are not being played in your ball field, don't worry about the rules.

Response by SSG Mannix Brooks made May 12 at 2019 12:24 PM

SSG Mannix Brooks — Sun, 12 May 2019 12:24:42 -0400

I'm retired and I get the what did you retire as question all the time. I tell them but what does it matter when very few people make it to retirement for a whole lot of reasons. What is being retired matter to me other than some extra benefits when I think of troops who have made the ultimate sacrifice or live with the residual effects from wars, they are my heroes. Retired, active or veteran we all should respect each other for doing or having done this type of work because it is definitely not about pay. Unfortunately, we still have people who associate people with titles outside of a business environment and that is not how it works.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 2:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 May 2019 14:35:22 -0400

First and foremost the wife does not wear the rank of her husband. I had this problem in Germany (1980’s timeframe) where a wife married to a Captain thought she could talk to me in a disrespectful way. She announced proudly her husband was a Captain and I had to do what she said. I gave her verbal finger.

I’m retired and I know that we’re identified by rank. I will be respectful to all, but I don’t see a rank card being used here. Quite frankly your wife is better off not being friends with at that marine wife. You guys don’t need that negative person in your life.

Response by SGT Michael Willard made May 13 at 2019 8:37 AM

SGT Michael Willard — Mon, 13 May 2019 08:37:21 -0400

first off! I would like to say that I agree that a military spouse should not use their spouses rank to their advantage that's wrong and uncalled for. But I would like to also point out for those of us that have retired from active duty or National Guard or Reserve. That even though you have retired you still maintain your rank. Do you not receive correspondences from Tricare, DFAS. What's your rank ahead of your name if what you're saying is true then that should be only calling you by your name and not your rank and title. Using someone's rank when they're out of retired from the military as a sign of respect or even if you're not retired and you know they're ranked it's still a sign of respect. That person didn't get to that rank by just sitting on his or she but and has earned that rank and it's not a petty thing. I grew up as an army brat calling people sir or ma'am which is the respectful thing I still do that today even the kids younger than me. it's respect! it has nothing to do with pettiness and for you to sit there and talk to people and say it's Petty for them to use their rank, and I'm not talkin sitting there going well I'm retired army Sergeant Michael Willard as as an everyday thing but when I go on base and people look at my military ID I expect to be treated with respect that my rank calls for, and if that's Petty I'm sorry. But you all have to remember you earned your rank it's not something Petty it's a simple fact of respect and if you can't get that in your head then I don't know what to say I'm probably pissing off a lot of people right now. So be it! I usually don't comment but this one I had no choice but to comment on.

Response by HN Edward Bell made May 13 at 2019 12:05 PM

HN Edward Bell — Mon, 13 May 2019 12:05:11 -0400

Col. you have to thank the powers to be for that; just like the other conditioning. We both know that it is wrong but until the lower ranks are made to feel equal(what can you do).Me personally know that each one of us put our pants on the same way(urah).

Response by SGT Steve McFarland made May 13 at 2019 2:11 PM

SGT Steve McFarland — Mon, 13 May 2019 14:11:05 -0400

For me, it is a matter of honoring their service and accomplishments. One of my friends is a retired Army Colonel, Vietnam veteran and Airborne Ranger. I call him "Colonel" out of respect, not because he is "better" than me.

Response by PO2 Russell Houston made May 13 at 2019 5:39 PM

PO2 Russell Houston — Mon, 13 May 2019 17:39:01 -0400

I get that also, was an enlisted in the service but have a Phd now and still treated like I know nothing when dealing with "post" military people, I just learned to laugh my butt off

Response by SSG Phil Miller made May 13 at 2019 7:03 PM

SSG Phil Miller — Mon, 13 May 2019 19:03:26 -0400

I think the problem is the Marine's wife knows that Major is a meaningless rank.
Her husband must have complained to her a lot about not getting the respect he deserved and that someday when he was a colonel, by damn, he would get it. =)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2019 8:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 May 2019 20:26:04 -0400

Because the army is like the movie mean girls. Everyone is judging every move you make. They judge ribbons, awards, deployment patches.. you name it they are judging you for it. I don’t care what people think of my rank as long as my pay is right on the 1st and 15th.

Response by SFC James Pritchert made May 13 at 2019 9:12 PM

SFC James Pritchert — Mon, 13 May 2019 21:12:17 -0400

We were trained to categorize everyone by rank and grade. At this stage of my life (60s) I have left all of that behind.

Response by CPT Tommy Curtis made May 13 at 2019 9:24 PM

CPT Tommy Curtis — Mon, 13 May 2019 21:24:18 -0400

I have not experienced that all. My rank has only been mentioned a few times at VA. USAA always addresses me by my rank but I'm sure they do that with all Members.
They do give me a hard time at American Legion or VFW events but its all in fun. We are all the same rank when we get out......brothers and sisters, at least thats how I view it.

Response by SP5 Joe Bierce made May 13 at 2019 11:55 PM

SP5 Joe Bierce — Mon, 13 May 2019 23:55:47 -0400

I spent my time in service interacting with NCOs, Officers, DAC and officers' wives. The only ones who ever "pulled" rank were O-4, and below, wives. As a civilian I still have opportunity to interact with other veterans. Never have I met a prior service, NCO, officer or retired officer who pulled rank. Since it was my business to know what their service was I frequently had to look it up. An O-7 I know introduces himself with his first name but he will always be General to me. By the way I was an E-5 and my wife retired as an O-6. It never comes up.

Response by SPC Tim LaFountain made May 14 at 2019 11:44 AM

SPC Tim LaFountain — Tue, 14 May 2019 11:44:52 -0400

The grocery store that I shop at every once in awhile I run into a Marine CSM (Ret.). I address him by his rank, and that is out of respect for the for his service. When I first addressed him he was surprised that I knew his rank (he wore it on his ball cap), I told him that even though I was former Army I definitely knew what the rank was. I think he was impressed by that.

Response by PO2 Tresia Frazier made May 14 at 2019 9:18 PM

PO2 Tresia Frazier — Tue, 14 May 2019 21:18:04 -0400

Some people only identify by being a part something. The never learned to value people or themselves
No identify..

Response by LTC Audrey Macleod-Pfeiffer made May 15 at 2019 11:12 AM

LTC Audrey Macleod-Pfeiffer — Wed, 15 May 2019 11:12:43 -0400

Sounds like the Major's wife is living her identity thru her husband's career. Whether you are a private or a general both ranks have dedicated themselves to service for their country and fellow man-all deserve the respect accorded to allegiance to serve.

Response by PO2 Kris Speers made May 15 at 2019 2:15 PM

PO2 Kris Speers — Wed, 15 May 2019 14:15:08 -0400

There is value in acknowledging somebody's accomplishments. This is why even after military life if I know that somebody is a doctor, I can't address them by their first name, even if they ask me to. But for wives to be acting like the rank is theirs... they didn't earn that rank. Perhaps your wife should flip the tables on her and address her by the title she earned... "spouse", "baby factory", or "cock sponge". She isn't a major, her husband is, and just cause she got some nicer housing cause her husband's rank, don't mean her sacrifice to the country was any greater.

Response by 2LT Daryl Stamm made May 15 at 2019 6:55 PM

2LT Daryl Stamm — Wed, 15 May 2019 18:55:03 -0400

I resent being called a "Butter Bar"; I served honorably both as an enlisted and as a Second Lieutenant. Being such doesn't mean that I was naive or unskilled in my service, either as a fire direction operator or as an Artillery Battalion S2

Response by SGT Daniel Durkovich made May 17 at 2019 5:56 PM

SGT Daniel Durkovich — Fri, 17 May 2019 17:56:31 -0400

I agree that most of use rank out of respect for one another. The spouse issue is just that, a spouse issue. If the a spouse uses rank as a privilege they are wrong. The spouse has zero rank and needs to be straightened out. They are not military and have no rights or privileges of rank.

Response by SSG Jeff Beltran made May 18 at 2019 10:00 AM

SSG Jeff Beltran — Sat, 18 May 2019 10:00:40 -0400

Regardless, of rank for those who served and whatever rank you retired in. No one in the civilian world will even acknowledge or really care what your rank was in the military. Other than just to say Thank you for your service. It would only be in formal settings or environments that a person who is retired is addressed by their rank. IE Formal Presentations such as the Medal of Honor etc. The important part is enjoying your retirement and the additional income and moving on with your next chapter in life and being thankful that you made it 20 plus years in the Military and you beat the odds of all the other things that could have happened while you were serving. I thank God daily for granting me life after the Military.

Response by SSG Herman Bauman made May 19 at 2019 6:38 PM

SSG Herman Bauman — Sun, 19 May 2019 18:38:13 -0400

I have met many veterans over the years and can't remember even one telling me his/her rank. Also my son is a Captain in the Navy Reserve and I asked him if any of the people at his civilian job ever called him by his rank. He said no.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2019 9:23 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 May 2019 21:23:47 -0400

People just being people. Everyone wants to feel like they matter, some have a need to matter more than others. It might not be right, but there it is. I spent most of my time in SOF, where not many care what you call them as long as you know your role, who calls the shots, and you do your job to serve the mission. We respected leaders who lead well. The ones who didn't...well, we called them sir, too. It's part of knowing your role. After retirement, your role is largely not getting in the way and being a good comrade to your brothers in arms, both retired and active. People might not call you colonel or sir anymore, they don't have to - but how much they respect you depends upon how you act, not some regulation or protocol. Wives, well...like I said, I served a long time in SOF. Wives come and go there. You could be a colonel's wife one day, and just another cougar at the Dragon Club the next. Wives have some important responsibilities on the home front, but no rank. What matters is how we regard each other in the profession of arms. When I call a retired general sir, it's more out of respect for his service than any obligation. Most of them don't mind if I call them by name. I don't mind, either. I'm retired.

Response by Steve Spear made May 31 at 2019 5:42 PM

Steve Spear — Fri, 31 May 2019 17:42:00 -0400

Ditto all the comments about insisting on titles rank etc. when they're not otherwise appropriate. It's all about ego and demanding status that is not naturally obvious. I was once on a group call with a guy who kept thanking everyone for their input on a particular topic. He explained his appreciation that the subject was outside his wheelhouse; after all he was only a chemist. Yeah. True. Who had won the Noble Prize two years prior. So, my take away, the person who's demanding his/her "rightful" place in line? Not likely a future Nobel Laureate or person of any earned distinction of any kind. Very best!

Response by MSG Norm Nunnally made Jun 20 at 2019 8:51 PM

MSG Norm Nunnally — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 20:51:04 -0400

As far as a Marines wife not liking your wife because you are a Colonel says a lot about the husband. Sounds like he is bitter because he is a pass over - and apparently for good reason. Keep in mind that the difference between a Marine and a Naval person is simple- during entry evaluations if an individual does not know his parents then he is a Marine.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Jun 23 at 2019 2:12 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:12:10 -0400

My wife has played the rank card back at unwitting fellow spouses of Officer wives from regular Army line units. You see, I served in CID from 1978-1994 and they were very adamant that our titles were “Special Agents”. Hell, the senior warrant officer in the office was the “Special Agent-in-Charge. They do this for a very specific military and legal reason. They do not want lower enlisted to waive their rights when their interrogator is a warrant and use “follow all of the orders given me” as if waiving your rights and agreeing to talk is a response to an order. Further, they do not want a suspect, who is a senior officer, to think they can pull rank on a Sergeant First Class, who is an agent. And for those hung up on military order, I have interrogated senior officers as a SFC.

Thus, when my wife was queried as to my rank, she would tell the inquirer that I was a Special Agent. This truly added confusion to the game. I also lived in both enlisted and officer housing as an enlisted agent. Neither my last name nor rank was on our quarters. This also ran afoul of housing policies. I was also exempt from extra duties, like SDO/SDNCO. I pulled CID duty agent as much as twice weekly in the states; a week at a time in Germany; and two weeks at a time on the DMZ in South Korea. We were also on separate rations, as the Army didn’t want anything slipped into our food, as well as you can’t leave a crime scene to go to dinner.

Response by CPT William Hoh made Jun 28 at 2019 11:39 PM

CPT William Hoh — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:39:47 -0400

In my experience, veterans only mention PAST rank when joking around with one another. I was a Captain in the Army and I have never held this over anyone since being discharged for an injury. my best friend from high school entered as a private and is now a lieutenant colonel. A lot of the NCOs gave him crap it was the three ... but he was a total gentleman when he became an officer. Never used his past experience as an excuse to look down on NCOs or treat them badly. I think all military should learn from his example.

Response by CPT William Hoh made Jun 28 at 2019 11:42 PM

CPT William Hoh — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:42:54 -0400

As a physician in the US Army Medical Corps, I entered as a first lieutenant. I learned very quickly not to talk down to nurses… Because most of them outranked me. Made it easier to look at the healthcare team as just that, a team. Each with their own unique abilities.

But it was rather surreal for a Captain like myself to give orders to a nurse who was a Lieutenant Colonel or full Colonel. She could not order me to do something medically.

Response by CPT William Hoh made Jun 28 at 2019 11:45 PM

CPT William Hoh — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:45:55 -0400

I learned a very long time ago not to confuse education with intelligence. Sure there are many educated people who are intelligent but they're just as many intelligent people who did not receive a formal education. I never assume that an officer is smarter than an NCO or an enlisted man. That would be a huge mistake.

Of course they have to respect my rank but I was smart enough to listen to what they had to say. I'm not perfect. Only God is perfect. And I surely am not God.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Jul 3 at 2019 5:17 PM

CWO4 Tim Hecht — Wed, 03 Jul 2019 17:17:04 -0400

Wives playing their “spouse’s rank card?” Does this BS Stijl happen today? Do we still allow it to happen?

I was on an Admiral’s staff for one of my tours of duty; one of my duties was logistical support of his office staff. The Admiral’s Secretary could be a real PITA; wearing her boss’s stars almost as well as he did. I think I was a Chief Petty Officer when the following took place: her: “The Admiral wants Company X’s Dictation Equipment.” Me: “Is this what the Admiral wants or is it what you want?” Her: “What difference does it make?” Me: “its my job to get your office what you need to do your job. If it’s what the Admiral wants I’ll go ask him if he really wants (his answer would be “I don’t care); then I told her: When you need something just tell me; if you say “ the Admiral wants...I’m going to ask him!”

She got the message - no need to infer what the “Admiral wants!”

Response by CPO James Mauro made Jul 4 at 2019 10:45 PM

CPO James Mauro — Thu, 04 Jul 2019 22:45:56 -0400

I have to chime in this one. Although this was an active duty wife. From 2002 through 2007 I was part of Navy Region Hawaii’s N7 Training and Readiness. Most of you in senior positions know that after 9/11 all services are required to conduct emergency drills for a variety of incidents including terrorism attacks requiring commands to set condition Delta for no less then 15 Minutes. (To do it correctly requires a much longer time including deploying the QRF. We let the entire community know the base would be conducting the exercise and the amount of time the gates would be secured. On the scheduled date and time the Base Commander gave the order for Delta. The gates were secured and the reports were made. Not 5 minutes into the drill the Base Commander got a call from one of the 4 star Navy Commanders (we are talking the big 4 stars not the run of the mill 4 stars) He flame sprayed the Base CO directing him to open the gates immediately because his wife was in traffic just outside the main gate and was being inconvenienced. The gates were opened failing that portion of the exercise and to beat it all she chewed out the sentry because he did not salute her. The following year Delta was not exercised at all. True story.

Response by CPO James Mauro made Jul 4 at 2019 10:52 PM

CPO James Mauro — Thu, 04 Jul 2019 22:52:04 -0400

As for the PhD comments, I was the only Senior Enlisted in the Navy with A PhD in Oceanography. I earned it while on active duty. While I could have been addressed S Dr. I rather and most importantly insisted on being addressed as Senior Chief.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Jul 6 at 2019 9:26 PM

SPC William Szkromiuk — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 21:26:45 -0400

I don't have an answer. I sincerely value all that have served and serving now. It is also not about me. I do have a story though.
I volunteered at a VA home for several years. I helped the residents with their computers and such and helped them in the common computer area. I knew a lot of them by name, but always called them by their last name. Mr ******** seemed to be alone most of the time. One day I asked Mr ******** why he did not play cards with that group of residents over there. They seemed to be having a good time. He told me that he is not accepted in that group. I asked why not? You are all Veterans that served our country. He answered with: "because I was not a part of this MOS or this unit or this cliche." He was being ostracized because he did not have a certain patch or ribbon or possibly rank.
Now I get this when you are a young stud and still serving. But after your in the VA Home.
Time is of the essence.
Thank You all for your Service!

Response by SGT Donovan Leeds made Jul 8 at 2019 1:50 PM

SGT Donovan Leeds — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:50:45 -0400

I've seen the rank card pulled in both the military and academia. I was denied a gov't position by a "Dr." because "military experience doesn't count."

One of my friends went Green-to-Gold and we ended up in the same unit after he got commissioned a couple of years later. His wife mentioned about the difference in how she was treated (former military herself and nicest person ever btw) when he was enlisted, (she was pretty much looked down on by an Active Duty member in the PAC office (enlisted)) and then after he was commissioned being sucked up to (same military member that didn't remember her from before).

On the flip side of the coin, my ex-wife worked on base in Germany and had more than one officer's wife try and pull rank to have an exception made because she failed to meet some registration deadline. I still remember the one that wanted to use the office e-mail to send out a powerpoint slideshow presentation (invitation to all the officer's wives for some event) that was more than 10X larger than the network could handle (90's era) and threw a hissy fit when she was denied.

Response by SFC Roger Herron made Jul 24 at 2019 3:41 AM

SFC Roger Herron — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 03:41:55 -0400

Hmm, seems like almost everyone now days, has a hold card up their sleeve. Race card, gender card, and now; A rank card? This excuse justifies the individuals innocence and indignation, with no sense of responsibility for their actions.

Response by SSG Tom Montgomery made Jul 29 at 2019 2:33 AM

SSG Tom Montgomery — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 02:33:49 -0400

You are speaking of a small group of military wives who feel they have earned the same military recognition as their husbands. Spouses have no rank. No authority or privileges. They are certainly an integral part of the military family and should be respected as such. When they push around their husbands rank they undermine the entire family support structure.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 4:57 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:57:37 -0400

Hmm. I’ve been retired 20 years and haven’t seen it. Although it may be because I do not live near a base. It would not surprise me near an installation. At the core of it, however, is that when you retire from the military and move to civilian land, you have to establish a new identity independent of the uniform. I’m thinking people have a hard time giving it up.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 1:13 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:13:53 -0400

lets not forget to add the segregation within the ranks ESPECIALLY THE NAVY!!!! We are by far the most separated and segregated service.

Response by PO2 Joshua Shellenberger made Jul 30 at 2019 6:06 PM

PO2 Joshua Shellenberger — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:06:26 -0400

I got out as a PO2. I still wear my rank insignia on my hat. I have never looked down on anyone because of their rank nor had anyone look down on me. I have worked with retired E-9s, ex E-3s, and former officers with no issues. Many times the officers and I would banter back and forth.
"You broke it again sir? Well don't worry this enlisted man will fix your screw ups for you again. Just like old times

Response by 1SG Robert Rush made Jul 31 at 2019 10:52 AM

1SG Robert Rush — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:52:12 -0400

Just look at other professionals in government at any level, they are addressed by their last or greatest position. It is no different in the military community. Individuals that have demonstrated their leadership and have raised to the highest ranks of leadership deserve the same respect, don't you think? Saying that they should not flaunt that title in other's faces. I am called 1SG or TOP by my former military associates no matter what their ranks were. I carry myself now as I did while active in the military.

Response by SrA Kelly Richard made Jul 31 at 2019 11:42 PM

SrA Kelly Richard — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 23:42:17 -0400

As a veteran, don't talk about it. No one ever asks either... Most veterans ask number of years, not so much about rank.

Also, just an fyi to fellow vets seeking employment... Asking someone's rank in a job interview is an illegal interview question just like asking a woman if she has children, because of the potential for job discrimination.

Last point... NO ONE WEARS THEIR SPOUSE'S RANK! Ladies, please, yes, spouses do serve in a very different way which can very much so be harder in some respects (I've done both I can say that) but no civilian out ranks another. That is just not a thing.

The Key Spouses might be able to help with mediation for your wife. If not, maybe try talking man to man with the Major and see if he's willing to help them squash their beef. If not, she might be better off steering clear and avoiding the drama; because it may just be a convenient excuse and the real reason is that individual likely has an underlying issue with herself and not an issue with your wife.

Response by Sgt Tony Cassity made Aug 3 at 2019 1:18 AM

Sgt Tony Cassity — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 01:18:49 -0400

Spouses have no rank! Peroid!

Response by PO2 Ronald Willis made Aug 3 at 2019 3:41 AM

PO2 Ronald Willis — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 03:41:16 -0400

Elitism! You most likely get that behavior from dependents, not the service members. I grew up an Army Brat, the son of a WW2 and Korea infantry veteran, 1st sergeant. We "enlisted" dependents were often confronted by the dependents of officers, at school, socially and sometimes physically. In High School I had the gall to date the daughter of a colonel. The colonel's wife did everything in her power to interfere, but the colonel never said a negative word to either of us. Living on Fort Ord (Monterey CA) in the 60's, officer's quarters were situated on "snob hill," while we lowly enlisted brats lived in "peasant valley." We finally went our separate ways due to my enlistment, her dad's transfer and the Vietnam War, but I'll always have a place in my heart for Marg.

Response by PO1 Jay Sinyard made Aug 3 at 2019 1:15 PM

PO1 Jay Sinyard — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 13:15:28 -0400

Colonel it took me a little time to simmer down and realize I was retired and could settle down. I agree with you about addressing initially by their rank and switching to first name basis. So I’ve gotten over it. I have met several who seem to still be living it. I pay my respects and then move on.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Aug 3 at 2019 1:39 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 13:39:19 -0400

Me personally I do it at a sign of respect and acknowledgement of their achievement in a military and if they don't want me to addressed them by their rank since they are civilians and I will honor that plus the way the Marine Corps trained us is kind of hard not to addressed him / her by their rank whether they are active duty or retired.

Response by SPC Larry Weigel Jr. made Aug 3 at 2019 6:01 PM

SPC Larry Weigel Jr. — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 18:01:42 -0400

I see it as a feeling of self-entitlement, they reached a certain level above others and should be treated accordingly (even a spouse could feel like this). There’s a lot of civvies doing the same thing these days, thinking because they have something that makes them better than others. Thinking this way makes you worse than others, first impression is everything.

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Aug 3 at 2019 6:15 PM

LTC Patrick Turner — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 18:15:52 -0400

I’m in the Board of Directors of a very successful non profit who caters to disabled veterans. We award the veterans free golfing privileges, golf equipment and apparel and trips. At the front end of their joining our org, we remind all of our members that we never address anyone by rank and use it for any purpose. In spite of this we have a few who just don’t get the telegram, talking about their command positions and rank. We pull them aside and counsel them. One guy I had to talk to THREE times on this issue. Only when members started to ridicule him publicly over rank and position in a sarcastic manner did he finally GET IT. We are more interested in camaraderie, friendship and growing together.

Response by SGT Jay Holland made Aug 3 at 2019 9:34 PM

SGT Jay Holland — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 21:34:11 -0400

Retired military members maintain their ranks, because in a time of war, they can be recalled in an emergency.

Response by Lt Col Michael Kwan made Aug 4 at 2019 2:11 AM

Lt Col Michael Kwan — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 02:11:20 -0400

As a retiree, I really don't notice anyone acknowledging my prior rank. I feel I'm just treated as another veteran.

Response by PO1 Frank Haynes made Aug 4 at 2019 7:44 AM

PO1 Frank Haynes — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 07:44:20 -0400

I almost always use it out of respect, however, for a Major's wife to treat your wife poorly based on rank is beyond disgusting. Rank is not a class system and this is not the middle ages. Besides, she didn't earn that rank OR respect, her husband did.

Response by Sgt Robert Blackwell made Aug 4 at 2019 1:23 PM

Sgt Robert Blackwell — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 13:23:19 -0400

I will always address an NCO or Officer by their rank in public. In private i will usually use their first name. The same as when i was in the service to my country. Respect in my opinion, no one in civilian life has ever asked me to address them by their rank, but all have allowed me the honor.

Response by SFC Tom Crenshaw made Aug 4 at 2019 1:31 PM

SFC Tom Crenshaw — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 13:31:25 -0400

Titles are for those who lack true accomplishment. A finance officer wears the same rank behind a career desk. As a destroyer commander who fought.

Response by SrA Chris Wilson made Aug 4 at 2019 1:59 PM

SrA Chris Wilson — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 13:59:55 -0400

I tend to view someone's rank and branch of service as a part of informing how they view the world. Each level of leadership has its own kinds of worldviews that go with it. But, I don't think it is useful to use it as a complete way of looking at anyone: I'm certainly not a E-4 in my life experiences or leadership skills after all I have done outside the military. But, for example, my pastor is a former Naval Officer and that influences how he chooses to lead and approach his work in some ways just as my military experience colors some of my interactions. Yet, to characterize either of us entirely by rank would be inane. Some people just like to have such mental shorthand that it becomes pointless in application

Response by SSgt Harold Weist made Aug 4 at 2019 2:51 PM

SSgt Harold Weist — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 14:51:36 -0400

Belonging to 6 Veteran Service Organizations and have attended many meetings, reunions, and conventions with members ranging from privates to 4 stars. I've never seen a problem socializing with the men and there wives. While on active duty I have seen some incidents that I felt were questionable. I think there are those who have an an identity problem and they become what I'd call Want-a-bees. It's sad that it happens. I don't know for sure, but maybe the service member should let their spouses know that they are not the ones with rank, although there are some privileges they have such as Officer Clubs, etc.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Aug 4 at 2019 7:56 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 19:56:13 -0400

When I was a police officer, there was a retired Navy Commander who lived where I worked. He was a drunk and when I had to deal with him, he would always reference his Navy rank to me. One night the old drunk assaulted his wife and I arrested him for domestic violence. Once again he referred to his rank as I was putting the handcuffs on him. I said, "Well Commander Calopy, Retired, you have the right to remain silent and your former rank has no pull here."

Response by CPT Earl George made Aug 4 at 2019 8:31 PM

CPT Earl George — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 20:31:37 -0400

Some people never let go. As for me, I use my new rank now:PFC(proud fine civilian)

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Aug 4 at 2019 10:47 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 22:47:45 -0400

Respecting ones rank has never be a problem, even retired. The problem is when they use their rank to be respected not earned. For a spouse or offspring to use that rank is BS. My dad the Col. Was called Col. Untill his death at 80. People knew him for what he was. Never in his military time did my mother or us kid use his rank. After graduation from basic my DI asked why I never said anything about being a Col.s son. My reply was simple, sgt I am pvt Herres, Col. Herres would kick my ass to the moon if I ever used him to help myself. I am not an astronaut!

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Aug 5 at 2019 12:48 AM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 00:48:35 -0400

My section boss where i work at was a Company Cdr in a Special Forces unit, sometimes we get to talking like " hey man, did you ever... Or, oh man, when i was... " Never use the "old" rank..

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Aug 5 at 2019 4:39 AM

SPC Brian Mason — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 04:39:47 -0400

I haven't experienced this. I've been out for a while and if anything, we converse about things but none of that. In Active Duty, I have seen wives try and use their husband's rank which is childish. That doesn't give her these made-up rights.

Response by SCPO Melvin Burt made Aug 5 at 2019 9:35 AM

SCPO Melvin Burt — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 09:35:26 -0400

While my wife was pregnant and at the clinic for check up, a ''Comander's wife came trowing the rank card around and demanding head of the line privileges. My simply said, " You got pregnant the same way l did, now get to the end of the line." The woman had no idea that l was an E5 at the time but married to a woman that took crap from anyone.

Response by SGT Michael Watson made Aug 6 at 2019 6:31 AM

SGT Michael Watson — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:31:08 -0400

I agree with you. I went into culture shock coming from active duty to the National Guard. Enlisted and Officers of all Ranks were courteous of Respecting Rank Rendering Salutes when Greeting etc. But when it came down to it everyone went by first name basis. It was more personable, yet strange, we had 2 Star Generals talking with Staff Sergeants and even lower addressing each other on first name basis. Most had other real time civilian jobs as airline pilots, or machinists, or law enforcement. When it comes down to it, not one person flashed the rank card. We were in it together, get the job done, go back home. Kinda reminds be of the Looney Tunes Cartoon when the Sheep Dog punches a time clock with a Coyote at the end of the day. :-):-) :-)

Response by MSgt Sidney Lichter made Aug 7 at 2019 4:35 AM

MSgt Sidney Lichter — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 04:35:59 -0400

I use my former rank most often when dealing with non-service-connected civilians, where it is important for them to know that I served. I have a position with a veteran's service organization in which I deal with educational grants to graduating high school seniors. When I send material to the high schools I always include my former rank, of which I'm proud, in my signature block; it gives me status. When I make presentations to assemblies I wear a set of miniature ribbons; anyone in the audience who was in service recognizes at least some of them, and knows what they mean--it is sort of advertising my accomplishments.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2019 7:11 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 07:11:57 -0400

Officer spouses play the rank, even family members.. My sister in law, likes to play that. I am a Senior Chief, and will and have threaten where she can place that Bird

Response by SPC Bruce Sanborn made Aug 8 at 2019 5:29 PM

SPC Bruce Sanborn — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:29:42 -0400

At a military sponsored activity, if in uniform an individual should be spoken to by rank(if known-not known by many). The dependents of the person in question carries no rank.

Response by MAJ Mark Steskal made Aug 13 at 2019 10:43 AM

MAJ Mark Steskal — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:43:08 -0400

You will always have dip sh_ts. The ones who are in, tend to choose or influence their partners to a like mindedness. Some branches are probably worse than others. My initial rank was E-1, E-3 when I transitioned to the Dark Side after 6 years (a bit like Gomer Pyle I suppose). I agree with you though, once one is out, they are just citizens. And spouses do not inherit their partner's rank (except in the home; my wife was always promoted one rank higher than me).

Response by PO3 Marcella San Miguel made Aug 14 at 2019 1:11 PM

PO3 Marcella San Miguel — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:11:00 -0400

When living by Ft. Bragg early 90's (my father-in-law was retired enlisted Army, while my husband and I are Navy enlisted veterans and decided to settle near his parents after seperating from military) rank was thrown around more than I had ever heard by spouses. I was in my children's PTA and let's just say you knew who was an officer's wife and who was not. Enlisted personnel's spouses for the most part weren't given the respect by the majority of the wives, granted there were some amazing exceptions to a few of those officer's wives. The enlisted wives were not invited to some events or able to get on the boards. I didn't play that game, we're were equals trying to do the best for our kids.

Response by CPL Lynda Wade made Aug 22 at 2019 6:10 AM

CPL Lynda Wade — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:10:42 -0400

Out of respect for a man who comes to the Temple VA Chapel on Sunday where I volunteer at, I still once in awhile call him 1SGT.

Response by CPL Lynda Wade made Aug 22 at 2019 6:25 AM

CPL Lynda Wade — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:25:20 -0400

I have a story that happened while I was still Active Duty Army. I had had Double Knee surgery and had advanced in my recovery to the rehab side of the hospital ward. I was enlisted and my roommate was a full bird colonel wife. Well one day after our doctor had finished see us. I left my bed and went over on churchs to talk to her. Well in the room as well was a Corpsman (E-4). After I doctor had walked out of the room the Corpman started to laugh. The Colonel wife and I asked what was so funny. Well he asked me did my doctor ever explain the history behind the surgery I had. I said no. Then he asked the colonel's wife the same question and she yes he explained the history to get. He said that our doctor always treated the higher ranking officers wives better than the enlisted. Well later on after the Corpsman had left the Colonel shows up to see his wife. Well his wife told him what the Corpsman had said and what we had said. Well the Colonel walked out mad as hell and went to see our doctor who was a Major. When the Colonel came back he said to his wife and me that he chewed out our doctor and said to our doctor that his wife was not to recieve anymore special treatment just because of his rank. He also toldd us that he had told our doctor that he was to start treating all of his patient equally. After that our doctor started treating me better. If it was not for the Corpsman bringing up the fact that our doctor was giving officers wives more special treatment, we would have never picked up on the fact that we were being treated differently.

Response by LCDR Glenn Adwell made Aug 30 at 2019 1:56 AM

LCDR Glenn Adwell — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:56:45 -0400

I am obviously former Navy but now work as a contractor for the Army. Our program director is a retired Army E-7, our deputy program director is a former Army E-5. My counterpart is a National Guard E-4. My team is made up of 15 people with everything from National Guard E-3s and 4s, a retired Army E-7, several former E-4s and 5s on medical retirement, numerous civilians, and a grumpy old Navy O-4 in charge. The youngest is 20 and I am the oldest. The dynamics are amazing!

Response by SFC Curtis Halford (Ret) made Aug 30 at 2019 2:15 AM

SFC Curtis Halford (Ret) — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 02:15:43 -0400

Never understood why dependents insisted on wearing the rank of their military member either, in or out. First, it is not earned. Second, it is likely not relevant beyond protocol or social planning. Unless you are a suck-up or a kiss-ass, why would you not treat Private Snuffy's wife with the same common courtesy and respect as you would treat General Huffy's wife? You tend to mind your Ps and Qs more around spouses of high-ranking members' dependents, but that's partly because those same dependents might think they wear the rank. In fairness, many higher-ranking members have spouses who also hold positions within the installation or community and may be entitled to respect or authority in their own right.

Once you are out of the military though, it truly becomes a fairly moot point. If that Marine spouse you refer to is judging your wife by your former profession and rank she's probably a petty person in many regards. I like or dislike people based on how they treat me and others around them. I occasionally slip and call retired officers "Sir", but that's just an old habit dying a hard death after years of serving on senior staffs.

Response by AN Renee Herrington made Aug 30 at 2019 3:35 AM

AN Renee Herrington — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 03:35:49 -0400

I continue to use the rank out of respect. People worked hard for that rank!

Response by MAJ Will Sullivan made Aug 30 at 2019 10:45 AM

MAJ Will Sullivan — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:45:52 -0400

There is a problem with limiting mindsets. People find themselves not liking officers nor their spouses just because they see that the former officer and his spouse went a different route compared to them that led to more income and different responsibilities. We hear a lot of grumblings that take on that type of attitude. When I was enlisted I heard a lot of these type of grumblings and in my opinion some of the comments may be cause of envy. We all made our decisions to follow the paths that we took. If one is unhappy it is no ones fault but our own if we didn't like our chosen path. Don't forget about the "us vs them" and "have vs have not" mentalities as well. Just my opinion as Ive witness/experienced it from both the enlisted and officer perspectives.

Response by GySgt Mike Grow made Aug 30 at 2019 7:47 PM

GySgt Mike Grow — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 19:47:31 -0400

Unfortunately the world we live in has some people who can only identify through their spouses accomplishments. I respect that these spouses sacrificed as much as their active military partners have and undoubtedly helped their spouse achieve that rank. As the CG's wife stated so eloquently some people just need to put in their place. I have encountered my fair share of entitled morons and the Gunny in me always tends to get the better of my otherwise peaceful demeanor.

Response by SGM Patrick Kirby made Aug 30 at 2019 8:56 PM

SGM Patrick Kirby — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:56:20 -0400

I am not sure most do, at least that has been my experience.

Response by TSgt David Marti made Aug 30 at 2019 9:46 PM

TSgt David Marti — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:46:06 -0400

COL Burroughs,
Sir with all due respect, this NCO was taught by the commissioned officers in his family one thing. That being, once you have left the rolls of active service, the only word that matters in your "title" is RETIRED! Yes, unfortunately some people never seem to understand that.

Response by Sgt John Mizell made Sep 2 at 2019 12:28 AM

Sgt John Mizell — Mon, 02 Sep 2019 00:28:36 -0400

I was number 100 on a hospital stretcher one time (1968) I hate standing in lines to this day.

Response by GySgt Thomas Vick made Sep 6 at 2019 12:09 PM

GySgt Thomas Vick — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 12:09:32 -0400

Rank is a badge of honor, not easily earned, therefore sticks with you for the rest of your life.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Sep 6 at 2019 4:54 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 16:54:32 -0400

There was a really funny story I'd once heard about that sort of thing when I was in...there was apparently a club at some installation for wives, apparently, I guess commissioned, maybe commissioned and enlisted, I'm not entirely sure now, I'd heard the story ages ago, obv...anyway, one day, an installation commander visited them, apparently because of hearing about them having some kind of pecking order, based on their husbands ranks...the next part was, the commander says, "Get in line, ladies, by rank order," or something like that...so, they all do, general's wives at the front, obv, all the way back to however far the group went...then, the installation commander proceeds to give them all a good tongue-lashing, that they all fell for it was virtually the dumbest thing he'd ever seen, saying, "Hello...you're not in, your husbands are," or something like that...honestly, I don't know when I heard that story, or where, it'd just been told to be once, and kinda just stuck in my mind...somehow, it just seemed apropos here, that's all, honest...obv, that was long before I met my wife, of course...I obv then quite rapidly learned the single most important phrase in the English language..."Yes, dear".....

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2019 2:02 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 02:02:57 -0400

I think for a lot of people have a hierarchy system deeply implanted in their psyche from the culture of the military. To drive higher performance, leadership and progression they make people aspire to get to a higher rank and lower ranks are treated like shit to break the person's identity and make them aspire to be Petty Officer (Joe Shmoe) vs Seaman Joe Shmoe etc. As a lower ranking person, you still cling to your personal identity outside of the military when you are fresh so this system slowly but surely makes you identitfy with the military more the longer you are in. Over time, some people become so attached to their rank and job title that they forget who they are without it...which is great for retention. This mentality does not come undone unless there is a deep process of deconditioning from military culture. We see this in the corporate world just as much when managers address employees etc.

For example, I was a lower ranking non commissioned officer in the Navy and I got out after 6 years of active duty service. When talking to someone like you COL, I feel naturally included to address you as "Sir" out of respect for the dedication, sacrifice and leadership skills necessary to obtain a higher certain rank in your career.

Response by CPO John Bjorge made Sep 8 at 2019 9:41 AM

CPO John Bjorge — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 09:41:05 -0400

IDK after we get out we are each just a PFC, private f-ing citizen and as such stand in line. There should be no privileges except for active duty.

Response by Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr made Sep 15 at 2019 8:38 PM

Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 20:38:39 -0400

For me it's a thing called Respect for those who have progressed in their Military career, and those who may not have met my rank (low anyway) E-4, there may have been circumstances'????

Response by Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr made Sep 15 at 2019 9:26 PM

Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:26:39 -0400

Thanks for the Rank sheets, now I can get things straight...

Response by SPC Tom DeSmet made Sep 16 at 2019 1:46 AM

SPC Tom DeSmet — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:46:17 -0400

Col Mikel Burroughs, don't sweat the ignorance . She doesnt have to like anyone, but she does need to be respectful of others as rank means little to some and everything to others after you are out. I choose to address you as "Sir" because I respect you for your experience and knowledge that field grade officers attain. I admired and respected the officers I served under, and I am recognizing your level of service as a Colonel.
Yes, I was only a Specialist but that was just because I found myself caught up in a SNAFU. I got caught in a "shortage MOS" with a really good bonus and re-enlisted for 5 years to maximize it. Then within 18 months the Army was suddenly asking for people to voluntarily reclassify because they were now "overstrength" in my MOS. Well, since I was given the bonus I had to finish out the 5 years before I could reclassify. I was an E4(P) still after nearly 8 years who would have likely been RIF'd for not being E5(p) by 10 years. I am still proud of my service and I had plenty of great leadership roles in my time that satisfied me, even though I am excluded from some groups since I was not an NCO. I could be bitter but I'm not. The Army is a machine that can be somewhat fickle, if not unfair.
Judging by how my Marine cousin spoke about my service after 20+ since I had seen him. He had nothing good to say about my service and talked badly about anyone that didn't serve as an infantry Marine. He even had disdain for other Marines who were in Aviation for example. This at my grandmother's 80th birthday party! Now don't get me wrong.
Most of my friends from back home were either Active or Marine reserve and I admired them all. We "expressed" plenty of rivalries but we all respected each others commitment without question. I think the Majors wife may have had an issue with anyone not a Marine, likely because of how her husband talked about the "other than Marines"
I am also saying that I know that what I did was every bit as important and distinguished as the others that served before me, with me, and since. My final 3 years were what dreams are made of. The unit was all inclusive when it came to the families as far as enlisted. They had the admirable and difficult job being the spouses. From the bottom up they were taken care of and their needs were met. They even had t-shirts that showed a woman on horseback swinging a rolling pin with the partially borrowed motto "Death waits when you get home!" That allowed "us" to carry out the mission and know our families were in good hands.
I don't even need to know where anyone else served or in what capacity. I just know they all represent the 99.999% of honorable warriors that I can call an "associate" and sometimes friend. She obviously missed out on the Esprit de Corps portion of her service which is kinda sad when you think of it. God bless you Sir, as well as your family. And tell your wife that I thank her for her service to this great country as well!

Response by CPO Kim Hanthorn made Sep 24 at 2019 9:11 PM

CPO Kim Hanthorn — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:11:23 -0400

Out of respect. Plain and simple. I’m retired, and I’m called Chief all of the time. BUT if you use your rank in an abusive manner those people need to be checked. I don’t give a shit if your a 4 star General, if your being abusive with your Rank you will be checked. Leadership by Example!

Response by SN Jay Perry made Oct 7 at 2019 11:28 PM

SN Jay Perry — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 23:28:16 -0400

There is a old saw I've heard repeated several times. A Group of officers ladies are sitting in a Base movie theater attending a lecture. The lecturer approaches the lectern on top of the stage and asked the lady to arrange themselves according to THEIR rank. The ladies Shuffle around and argue for a few minutes before finally arranging themselves the lecturer looks at them for a moment says "ladies you have no rank! Unless you are active-duty you are dependents! Your rake or assimilated rank is assumed from your sponsor! I don't care if she is a third class E4 petty officer, and you are a generals wife if she is active duty she outranks you!" As a child of an 0-8 I definitely can understand why wives would get upset about things like that

Response by PO2 Brian Hoadley made Oct 9 at 2019 1:36 PM

PO2 Brian Hoadley — Wed, 09 Oct 2019 13:36:53 -0400

So I don't know about similar positions in other branches but for the Navy:

Every Command has an Ombudsman who is a spouse of a sailor at the Command. The Ombudsman serves as the liaison between the command and the families. The Ombudsman is the point of contact for the families. He or she can assist families with navigating through Navy life through resources and information.

Now, to answer your question, the above reason is the ONLY thing I can think of that would allow for this spouse to "Feel" entitled. However, the whole point to an Ombudsman is inclusiveness for families, with the chain of command. Like getting more dryers on base or some such, or being the focal point for survivors letters.

The other comments, I feel have specifically addressed the problem, respect, manners and being nice to others, but "if your mamma never taught you right", I can't help.

Response by C Jay made Oct 9 at 2019 10:10 PM

C Jay — Wed, 09 Oct 2019 22:10:54 -0400

Because that's the way society is, even civilian. Are you Rich or are you Poor. The lass with the mink coat is going to get the better service well before that homeless dirty girl on the street is. The Doctor is going to get better service than the construction worker. The military just follows suit with society.

Response by CPO Joseph Malay made Oct 10 at 2019 6:08 AM

CPO Joseph Malay — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 06:08:12 -0400

You mean Mrs Command Sgt Major or Mrs Col So and So?

If you are retired you are that rank for the rest of your days and for many of those you are eligible for call up. Our military is designed to use volunteers, Vets, and retired before starting the draft due to certain powers to be in the House. The day God releases us from our oath we are released from our rank.
The choice of being informal and rarely using rank is a privilege most of us enjoy. It is also our right to use that rank in certain conditions, a right we earned. Once in a while when I pass through the gate the guard calls me Chief and it always catches me unaware and put a smile on my face when I realize they were talking to me..... LoL
To be treated and referred to by your rank after service is usually a sign of respect whether you are higher or lower...... whether serious or joking ..........respect .

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2019 7:18 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:18:22 -0400

I work on a huge AF base that has a larger civilian (federal and contractor) employment positions that support the Air Force (GS-12-13 level) than AD. Most of the jobs are filled by retired AF. It has been amusing to watch all the posturing of all of these egos. I have seen more officers let go than any other in these positions. They just do not transition well into a job that they are only a worker like the rest of us. They don't intergrade into a team environment and are at a loss even beginning day to day taskers their new job requires. Some even sign Ret. xxxx xxxxx on every correspondence. I refuse to call ANYONE by their old rank because they were not my chief or officer. Not because I don't respect them, but because they are retired and are just one of many co-workers. Some do come around, but most don't. So I see an inverse stereotyping all the time. On the spouse front, I am also a wife of a Maj. I actually have two military IDs. One is my retiree (SMSGT) and the other is my dependent (MAJ). So if there is a urinary contest, I pull them both out sarcastically and throw them down like a poker hand so they know how stupid they sound. I yell, "Plus I raise you a CMSGT ex, and two Air Force children". I actually have never brought up either of our rank unless someone has asked.

Response by SFC Clarence Davis made Oct 13 at 2019 10:35 AM

SFC Clarence Davis — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 10:35:43 -0400

I agree, we all are retired.

Response by Cpl Rugs Haase made Oct 18 at 2019 1:04 PM

Cpl Rugs Haase — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 13:04:31 -0400

Because many veteran of US military service are frozen in time, and their youth.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 18 at 2019 1:49 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 13:49:59 -0400

Right or Wrong. It's the easiest way to make assumptions of a person.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Oct 20 at 2019 3:57 PM

SSG Samuel Kermon — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 15:57:03 -0400

This particular wife lacks a very important understanding of RESPECT. She also seems to misunderstand INTEGRITY. In other words she needs to learn or she is going to run into someone who is going to put her in her place.

Response by PO3 Terri Marini made Oct 30 at 2019 9:12 PM

PO3 Terri Marini — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:12:30 -0400

Well, as a veteran, I Dont really notice it now. I just saw it in the service. Enlisted were always separated from Officers with everything from food type and areas. On the ship, they got their own rooms while we were packed in like sardines.
I joined the VFW and I believe that everyone is enlisted, but our regional guy was an Officer. We have our “officers” which is like the President, Treasurer, etc but they were all enlisted.
When you go to the VA, we are all veterans and all get treated the same and get the same crappy service. We all have to battle to get needed service, especially for our service connected disabilities. When I was in the Navy we would talk so much crap about the “chair force”. But now one of my closest friends is an Airforce veteran. But she admits that They didn’t pt like all the other branches..... having to run at least 6 miles each pt session. We all give each other crap, but veterans are all equal.... and a little messed up mentally.

Response by Sgt Leonard Lamb made Oct 31 at 2019 9:28 AM

Sgt Leonard Lamb — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 09:28:50 -0400

Better not pull that rank sh*t on me now that we are all civilians. I will show you what this lowly grunt can really do when I set my mind to it. Put up with the ninety day wonders once. Will not tolerate that crap. Salute

Response by SPC Korey Kilburn made Nov 3 at 2019 2:07 AM

SPC Korey Kilburn — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 02:07:27 -0500

So this Major’s wife treats your wife bad because you achieved the rank of Colonel and her husband is only a Major? The woman makes no sense. Within my own extended family, one Great Uncle was a COL and his son my dad’s cousin also a COL. My oldest sister retired a CW3. I was medboarded early on and never made it passed SPC. My dads cousin, my sister, and I all chat and share stories but our ranks when we were all active duty don’t come into play nor should they. I’m an RN now and if I wasn’t med boarded who knows what Rank I could have achieved in the Nursing Corps. My wife is just happy to get to shop on base when we make the 1-1/2 hour drive.

Response by SPC Linda McAdams made Nov 5 at 2019 2:04 PM

SPC Linda McAdams — Tue, 05 Nov 2019 14:04:11 -0500

I worked in the Office at the Officer's Club in Wurzburg Germany in 1977-1978. My husband was a SSG however; I was forced out of the Officer's Club because some of the officers wives didn't think it was appropriate for an enlisted wife to work there. Guess what, I was not an "enlisted" wife. I was the spouse of an Enlisted Solidier. Those were the day when the wives wore hats and white gloves to meetings. I set up their functions, took money etc and I was just as capable if not more than anyone else.

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Nov 5 at 2019 7:36 PM

SrA Ronald Moore — Tue, 05 Nov 2019 19:36:40 -0500

If both are retired, I would still approach her rudeness with the Respect I had learned.I would not Go beneath her level.Then If it happens a second time, maybe befriend her to help her learn.She , I am thinking would act better if she knew better.

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Nov 6 at 2019 11:58 AM

SrA Ronald Moore — Wed, 06 Nov 2019 11:58:26 -0500

Once upon Time, My Squadron Commander, Recieve information about my wife at the time in Okinawa I Was in Captains' Quarters cause I chose to Work out of Naha Area and Makiminato Area and My wife didn' t behave well, with A Sgt.Whom she did not like cause she was female and in the military, And I had been called to My Quarters to access the situation, They had been soaking up quite a few beers, and looseness over came them and a window got Broken out .Well, I took the blame for it,Cause We suppose to have a handle on our wives, no matter who we are in rank, Especially if they are non - military, yet their Mate is military.I did get in trouble for it .My Squadron commander said she believe that if a woman is not active duty military, serving,They need to be sent home ,Cause of the distractions.Well , she was got sent back to the states cause she started not to like living that way.Note after we divorced, She went Active duty Army, I Still, Salute her for her service.

Response by SGT Jd Cox made Nov 6 at 2019 8:26 PM

SGT Jd Cox — Wed, 06 Nov 2019 20:26:33 -0500

Well, the last I checked, "wife" is not a rank of the Armed Forces. She is a dependent, just the same as an E-1's significant other. Commissary lines are first come first serve. She was artificially inflating her sense of self-importance, in my estimation. Much like the officer's spouse who doesn't get saluted while driving through the gate.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Nov 11 at 2019 10:10 PM

CWO4 Tim Hecht — Mon, 11 Nov 2019 22:10:53 -0500

Back in the day, assigned to a Coast Guard District Office the Two Star Rear Admiral’s wife was said to wear the Admiral’s Stars well!
Stationed at Coast Guard Headquarters I was part of a staff element (4 of us). Part of my duties included logistical support for the Admiral’s Secretary. She tried to play “The Admiral wants this type of dictation equipment card.” I flat out told her my job was to get them what they needed; no need to try to use the admiral’s rank - I said tell me what you need and I will get it for you; but if you say “the Admiral wants it I’ll go ask him!
The only signs I’ve seen in commissaries and exchanges are during certain hours members in uniform have head of the line privileges - although not all will go to the head of the line. I’ve never had anyone play the “my spouse is....”. But as a CWO4 where tact and diplomacy aren’t even family traits the colonel’s wife would in no uncertain terms, be told where she should stand inline like the rest of us!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2019 12:27 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Nov 2019 12:27:39 -0500

I feel the same way about former presidents. Former means just that and they should no longer be referred to as Mr. President unless they are in the company of others of the same "rank". A foreign dignity would be confused if a former president is referred to without adding the "former" to distinguish between their former and current status.
The military is different since they may be more commonly known with their rank among other former military. My father was like that when he was a Coast Guard captain. He ran the household like his ship. Even on my mother's obituary my father's name and rank were plastered all over it when she had a more illustrious military career in the Navy than he did. She was in Pearl Harbor during WWII and told me she even gave Gypsy Rose Lee an enema. That's classic. I was more impressed with my mother's time in the military than my father's, and she never talked about it. I didn't find out until after she died when we found her records. The NPRC lost all of her records.
In response to the question, I think some people never outgrow a title if they have one. Same thing in the civilian world. When they retire, I think they want to maintain that prestige especially if they were in the service or civilian occupation for so many years they still want that attachment. Usually if you're talking to someone, the first thing they ask is "what do you do for a living." Title means everything to some people especially civilians. It's meaningless to me unless I have to salute them and I'm in uniform.

Response by CPT Tommy Curtis made Nov 20 at 2019 11:39 AM

CPT Tommy Curtis — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:39:22 -0500

I can't speak for anyone else but I consider my fellow veterans my brothers and sisters regardless of rank. The only time I hear my rank anymore is when I call USAA.

Response by SPC Linda Chandler made Nov 23 at 2019 9:31 AM

SPC Linda Chandler — Sat, 23 Nov 2019 09:31:39 -0500

People who treat others poorly are angry people, you would think they know better but they miss being in and the notoriety they once had.
They are small people and want people around them to feel the way she does inside Ugly and hurtful.

She needs to grow up.

Response by MSgt Ed Larson made Nov 30 at 2019 10:22 PM

MSgt Ed Larson — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 22:22:28 -0500

Retired folks are civilians for all practical purposes. I don't use my rank anywhere since I retired.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Dec 5 at 2019 12:49 AM

Maj Kim Patterson — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 00:49:39 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I’m with you. When I was a young 2LT at Luke AFB, the wives would have to confer with the wife of the General (Dan Sherlock) on what to wear. I also was a General’s aid to literally “Call me Tony” Gen Anthony Peterson. At this point in my life, I would respond to almost anything respectful. My first name is fine with me. Depending on where some of our members were raised, ma’am is part of their normal language with all women. Fighter pilots had call signs that had no indication of rank. I would hope that what you saw was that spotted zebra.

My hometown referred to my father as the Colonel. It was mostly veterans from WWII and meant respectfully. I never once saw my mother expect preferential treatment. There are a few people I mentored when they were young who fondly refer to me as “the Maj.” My former husband was a Colonel. I have never seen him pull rank. His father was enlisted in WWII. We are about as humble as possible.

My aunt hid her rank in the back of her closet and the only time it was seen again was when I received it from my brother.

Yes, a big wordy but that just confounds me. I’ll go with SMH,

Response by SPC Linda Chandler made Dec 5 at 2019 4:30 AM

SPC Linda Chandler — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 04:30:49 -0500

I I don’t think it’s stereotyping, I think it’s a way of still paying respect because of what we learned while we were in the military once instilled in us it’s very hard to lose if you ever do lose it. I haven’t I work for the military I still stand when a kernel comes over don’t let your head get too big though if it’s a higher officer I do stand when they’re speaking with me I don’t jump when they come in the room though I’ve lost a little bit.

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Dec 5 at 2019 4:52 AM

SrA Ronald Moore — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 04:52:39 -0500

Sibling Riverie at its worst.Probaly also its' a way to get back those higher ranking members,Or putdown lower rankings,Or Poking pun at the I am better than you for the rank

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2019 12:44 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 12:44:13 -0500

You are writing about ‘dependa.’ Dependa is a special kind of person who believes that the rank and privileges of their spouse are theirs as well. They find a certain level of self-importance where there is none and use it to lord it over other ‘less important’ spouses. I suspect that many fulfill their insecurities, loneliness and personal challenges by believing they have power, where there is none. Many entered the military (spouses serve in a supportive role) believing in the ‘Fun, Travel and Adventure’ sold to them when they were military brats or dating. The reality is, the are often home alone, have limited career opportunities, have less control than they would like and lack the support system the would prefer.

So, be a good trooper and prepare your spouse with the truth. They do not wear your rank, can’t use your title, have the same (mostly) status as every other spouse and need to communicate, when things get tough. Household 6 can be a thankless role. Without them, we are just a bunch of troopers, living in the barracks, single/divorced and paying money to former spouses for children, alimony and a large chunk of our retirement (a situation some spouses actually plan for).

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 8 at 2019 2:50 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 08 Dec 2019 14:50:15 -0500

Had a woman tell me I had better watch out her husband was a 2LT; I told her my wife was a CAPT.

Had a Lt Col's wife try to order me around, once.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 8 at 2019 2:52 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 08 Dec 2019 14:52:55 -0500

Why?
I am a 1SG.

Response by SSG Franklin Briant made Dec 9 at 2019 4:05 PM

SSG Franklin Briant — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 16:05:07 -0500

I have never understood why a dependent would play the rank card. For me I believe that it is either they believe they are a trophy that needs to be recognized or they have seen the spouse/service member do it in certain situations. For me if I see a violation occur I will address it, I am proud of my service and expect those who follow the brother/sisterhood to do the same. I am retired so call me what you will, I will still receive my pay. If I meet a fellow service member and most of us can identify with each other by our actions and the way we carry ourselves, I will address them by their rank out of respect. Once I am given the o.k. I will then refer to them by their name. The situation with the wives should be addressed by the service member before it becomes a problem. My wife and daughter have never to my knowledge have ever used the rank card. I am net for sure they even know with my rank was. NOw let the hating began.

Response by MSG Dale Day made Dec 15 at 2019 6:35 AM

MSG Dale Day — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 06:35:06 -0500

As someone pointed out, playing The Rank Game shows insecurity. It bothers me to see special reserved parking spaces at the commissary. They're fine - and earned - in front of military buildings.
We work hard to earn our ranks and often make them because of the support of our spouses. But, that doesn't give the spouse to expect privileges because of the husband's rank or position.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Dec 17 at 2019 8:42 AM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 08:42:18 -0500

Col Mikel Burroughs sir, you stepped in one with this one. I will have seen this one play out in the Navy for more than 20 years. Wives wearing the husbands rank as if they'd served and fought themselves. I've have the misfortune of seeing it from both ends officer and enlisted. I was an enlisted man my entire career, was offer OCS and LDO but didn't believe I'd be a better officer than I was an enlisted man. One of my closest friends was actually my first ships CO. We met when he was a Commander and he actually went on to become Chief of Naval Operations CNO. He did three of my re-enlistments and my retirement ceremony. But when we'd attend events I'd see these wives brow beating enlisted wives and vice versa. They even went to nearly throwing bunches one day at the officers club. To this very day, I will Never understand What or Why this even happens. #SameLadiesTeam we gotta do better with this one. Great share Col!

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Dec 22 at 2019 10:56 PM

SSG Brian Carpenter — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 22:56:07 -0500

Always a laugh to be had at dependents who think they wear rank.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2019 2:42 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:42:09 -0500

I started at E-1 and ended/retired at O-6. Only been married since I became an O, but she never tried the rank thing, in fact she went to one OWC meeting and they were all about nominating each other for awards and scholarships...she made that her last.
Some of my friends (E and O) still call me "Colonel" and I think it is a nice sign of mutual respect (if I know a guy retired as a Chief Master Sergeant, I'll address as "Chief"). Since they took away "Colonel" parking...it's all good :-)

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2020 6:32 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 06:32:49 -0500

In 1991 I was a Ssgt in the Ohio Air National Guard activated for Desert Storm and deployed to Minot AFB. At the end of my 6 month activation and coincidentally my enlistment, I met and married a 1st lieutenant nurse. As a dependent husband, I was sneered at often by her officer coworkers because they knew about my enlisted rank. At events and parties I was ignored and insulted on more than one occasion despite the fact that everyone’s wives were treated with respect. I had a higher college degree than any of them but all they saw was my rank.

Response by SGT Chester Sprankle made Jan 5 at 2020 10:36 AM

SGT Chester Sprankle — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:36:24 -0500

As a Sergeant and even when I made the E-6 list I only required my soldiers to address me by my rank when we were around others, simply because this was the Army way. If I felt they could draw the line and know when to use my rank I did not care. If they were ones that could not draw the distinction between it than it was Sergeant Sprankle. I was never on a power trip because of the little bot of rank I had unless the situation dictated it.

Response by SMSgt David L. Hamilton made Jan 24 at 2020 9:31 AM

SMSgt David L. Hamilton — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:31:56 -0500

But, there will always be that “one”!

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jan 26 at 2020 1:51 AM

SSG Brian G. — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 01:51:43 -0500

I'm not even sure where that whole mess began. I know I saw it happen in Europe some, but was more prevalent CONUS. Saw it a lot on Air Force bases.

I remember one time there was a group of us standing in line in the Ft Benning Commisary, this was shortly after I pinned my E-5 and this lady started edging up talking about how she was the CG's wife and had priority. Luckily I was saved by the cashier who calmly and with a pleasant smile on her face told her that SHE did not have rank and had not served, there was no privilege for spouses... and she wheeled her cart back to the end of the line.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2020 8:26 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 08:26:50 -0500

It's called tradition. It is tradition to always refer to a retired colonel as 'Colonel'. Many of my former soldiers still refer to me as 'chief'. My brother-in-law retired as a Master Chief from the navy and is still referred to as 'chief'. It's respect and tradition. If you don't have it, you won't get it. Works that way in the civilian world as well. I still call my former Police Chiefs 'Chief' even though I'm now a chief myself. Respect. Tradition.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Feb 2 at 2020 8:01 PM

Sgt Ivan Boatwright — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 20:01:37 -0500

Rank ends when your time is up except for officers who are still on call. The rank is not transferable to family members.

Response by SFC Richard Williamson made Feb 9 at 2020 11:44 AM

SFC Richard Williamson — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 11:44:37 -0500

I served with a lot officers and enlisted personnel over my twenty year career, and not once, did I ever see a spouse get promoted along with the service member. That being said, I am truly thankful that i no longer live near a large military installation where I have to see or deal with this issue. Everybody's spouse should afforded the respect that they deserve.

Response by Col James Cooke made Feb 13 at 2020 6:16 PM

Col James Cooke — Thu, 13 Feb 2020 18:16:57 -0500

This sort of little social game has an interesting history, specifically in the U. S. Army on the American frontier. If you are history buff enough, you should be able to find it in the Navy, too! Going on back, bet that there are entertaining examples from British history. This sort of one-up-manship (womanship?) knows no borders or boundaries! From a distance it is fun to read about and funny reading, too.

Response by MSgt Raymond Stettner made Mar 6 at 2020 1:51 AM

MSgt Raymond Stettner — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 01:51:19 -0500

My wife suffered the same treatment. One Captains wife in our squadron thought her s*** didn't stink. That is one day she stuck it to the generals wife. Needless today the Capt. was transferred to Minot AFB ND. After I retired my wife got a job as a surgical nurse. One nurse rode her mercilessly. Come to find the nurses husband was a major in the local Air Guard. Never been overseas or been in combat. So my wife asked her if her husband came home every night because my husband didn't because he was on deployment a lot. End of harassment.

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Mar 6 at 2020 9:30 AM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 09:30:38 -0500

I think some of this is the "superiority complex" which is generally brought on by a serious "inferiority complex" condition... And by the way, it isn't just a military thing either.

Response by SPC Dennis Kregel made Mar 16 at 2020 10:50 PM

SPC Dennis Kregel — Mon, 16 Mar 2020 22:50:09 -0400

I think you night be asking the wrong question. I think the question should be why do dependa's throw their spouses rank around like they somehow earned it too?

Response by PO1 Christine Wilds made Mar 18 at 2020 3:03 PM

PO1 Christine Wilds — Wed, 18 Mar 2020 15:03:48 -0400

In my experience at the VA, veterans are all brothers and sisters. Perhaps I’m only speaking with enlisted folks, but that’s the thing. I might know what service they were and if they were combat vets because of the T-shirts and hats, but nobody talks about rank or cares what service you were in. If you signed those papers, you dedicated your life to this country and to freedom. Everybody deserves the upmost respect for that reason alone. There is one person I have given extra special respect to. I know an original Montford Point Marine. If you don’t know what that is, look it up. I happened to see him the other day with his family. His daughter told me he was getting a special award. I believe it was coming from our governor. It almost brought tears to my eyes. I shook his hand, congratulated him and told him it was about damn time.

Response by LTC John Bush made Mar 22 at 2020 11:41 AM

LTC John Bush — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 11:41:53 -0400

This should not be true and I remember an old lesson given to an OWC meeting by the Battalion commander. He asked them to line up by rank and when they dit told them in no uncertain terms they had no rank and did no carry their husbands rank. This was in63 so not a new thing. It is a personal character failure to use the rank of the spouse for any purpose.

Response by LTC P.A. Viersen made Mar 23 at 2020 2:54 PM

LTC P.A. Viersen — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 14:54:38 -0400

I had a Captain try to pull that BS in an overseas shopette after we ALL had redeployed - I will never forget his "Don't you know who I am?" bullsh**. When I was a major, I was TDY at Huachuca and hit the shopette for pogey bait and some gas for my rental car. I went into the shoppette and about 25 trainees were in there in line and almost wet themselves when they saw a major come in; then they all said make way for me to go to the head of the line and I said no - I will stay in line just like you - I told them all I was once wearing their E - nothing rank - and they were shell shocked that a major would simply wait like the rest of them. By the way, the a-hole Captain from above - later had a heart attack that he survived, which is good, and it put him out of the Army, which was also good.

Response by Sgt Vauna L. made Mar 24 at 2020 11:11 AM

Sgt Vauna L. — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 11:11:48 -0400

A friend of mine was in an off base McDonald's and some jerk in an officers uniform thought he deserved to cut in front of the line. He obnoxiously stated "don't you know who I am?" as he elbowed my friend out of the way. My friend simply answered "Captain Crunch?" The snobby officer shrunk back into his place at the line. Well played!

Response by CAPT Bill Edge made Mar 24 at 2020 5:54 PM

CAPT Bill Edge — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 17:54:02 -0400

It’s insecurity.

Response by CAPT Bill Edge made Mar 24 at 2020 6:03 PM

CAPT Bill Edge — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:03:31 -0400

If you join a Veterans organization rank has no place. All are “comrades”.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 11:27 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:27:34 -0400

This behavior is reprehensible. When a spouse performs segregational practices that belittles or creates a unfair advantage over others because of rank, it highlights the ideals of that household. The CG of that installation needs to submit a policy which discourages this behavior with consequences such as suspension from all facilities.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2020 12:11 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 00:11:21 -0400

Sir, that’s the million dollar question. Why is discrimination the “feel good” medicine for many? The center of balance (COB) is fear. Needless to say, fear is a motivating factor of how we live our lives. Fear taken to an unhealthy and unreasonable place becomes a problem for everyone. People practice discrimination by rank, race, sex and ect to belong to a particular group or ideology for safety. The result of any unbridled emotion is the result of unhealthy expressions such as a child’s tantrum or how you treat people. Much of this condition is grounded by unresolved behavioral factors based in their psyche. Counseling and education is an option for all, but you must first must identify there’s a problem.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Mar 30 at 2020 8:21 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 08:21:56 -0400

Can't say I've run into the rank card since getting out. My VVA chapter has a cross-section of vets from all branches and ranks. It never comes up. That said, my son's an active duty Army Lt. Colonel. I've advised my daughter-in-law, (firmly), to never use the, "Don't you know who I am?" line. As a former MP, the bile still rises in my throat when I hear it.

Response by CSM Stuart Fuller made Apr 12 at 2020 4:45 PM

CSM Stuart Fuller — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 16:45:23 -0400

My wife never did or has

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Apr 15 at 2020 6:25 PM

SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:25:50 -0400

As I was a officers brat. I was taught never ever to attempt to use my fathers rank or position for anything. Then as a Military Police officer I used the words “ sir or mam do not confuse your rank with my authority “. Probably only had to use four or five time in six years of service. Had a post commander call me into the provost Marshall’s office after I wrote his wife a speeding ticket. He told me good job. I told my own mother I’d pull her over. My father and I where both active duty at the same time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2020 8:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 20:16:21 -0400

As was remarked by a retiring CSM at our retiree briefing once we get our blue card and exit the gate we cease being whatever our rank was and are now misters or private free citizens. A few commissioned folks bristled at the remark but it was an ego check on all of us. Unless it is mail from DA or DoD all my stuff is prefixed as "Mr." and I joke around that I am now a PFC on those very rare occasions when I am on a military installation. My wife has never (to the best of my knowledge) used my rank as hers and doesn't get into the spouse imaginary rank game which didn't endear her to those that do or did.

Response by SPC Keith Smith made Apr 20 at 2020 5:59 PM

SPC Keith Smith — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:59:36 -0400

I have been out for awhile now, and whenever I know someone served, and was higher rank than I, I will give curtesy of their rank title on initial conversation, but will drop it and use first name there after. Spouses hold the rank of “civilian” during and after their spouses tenure, and no honors or privilege is given to them.

Response by SgtMaj Phillip Orellano made Apr 21 at 2020 9:20 AM

SgtMaj Phillip Orellano — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:40 -0400

First spouses need to understand they do not wear their service spouse rank, male or female. Retirees are call by their rank out of respect, its not mandatory. I would like someone to tell me otherwise if I call them by their first name.

Response by SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson made Apr 21 at 2020 10:11 AM

SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:11:45 -0400

True leaders always put their troops before themselves. My company CO use to eat with us an never front lined. Although spouses are a pivotal part of military life they should NEVER receive any kind of special treatment. Rank only applies when you are in uniform and on post. I would NOT take orders outside of my military installation. I have met Ms. Bella and can confirm that she doesn't make rank an issue. For me it is just common courtesy but never a necessity. If said Major's wife has an issue then I would suggest that it is simply insecurity and lack of self identity and she needs to get out more. JMO!!!

Response by SFC Richard Williamson made Apr 21 at 2020 12:33 PM

SFC Richard Williamson — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:33:12 -0400

I still , to this day, after 27 years retired, use the titles 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' out of respect. As for me, I prefer first names, as in "Rick' instead of 'Sarge' or 'Sergeant First Class'.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2020 1:07 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:26 -0400

COL Burroughs, if I may, your story doesn't quite match your topic. In response to the question in your topic, if I meet someone who is retired and in conversation I will be interested in knowing their rank as well as what they did. A person's level of experience tends to coincide with what rank they have attained. The example you gave is the spouses using their husband's, or wife's, rank and deciding that they get privileges based on that, or somehow feel that they can treat others as beneath them because of it. This is just unacceptable and someone needs to pull that person aside and tell them that that is not how this is supposed to work.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Apr 21 at 2020 5:46 PM

1SG Alan Boggs — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:46:21 -0400

While I dont treat Veterans by there rank I do weigh the validity of their military knowlege by it. If a E4 or lower is spouting his military knowlege, i tend to consider them a novice, one enlistment type. Does that make him less? No. Butbit means his knowledge of the military is limited compared to a 20+ yr lifer

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Apr 22 at 2020 7:37 AM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:37:56 -0400

Colonel, you touched on a good one here and the responses were a very good read. I have a friend of mine during my military days who just happened to be a 4 Star Admiral. We met when he was the commanding officer of an aircraft carrier I was stationed on, and he was a Captain then. He and his wife were two the most humble people Ive had the pleasure to meet. We were walking through the exchange after he'd reenlisted me that day (He wasn't in uniform), and an officer recognized him and offered to let him go to head of the line. This officer announced who he was to everyone in line trying to get everyone else to let him go ahead. He humbly thanked the officer and shook the hands of everyone in line, introduced himself and had conversations with most of them....All from the back of the line. I will never get or understand why people do this, however, the few times I've watched this one play out. It was an officers wife throwing her husbands rank around. Great share Sir.

Response by COL Howard McGillin made Apr 22 at 2020 5:12 PM

COL Howard McGillin — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:12:38 -0400

The only title that ever really mattered to me was DAD - and there's only 4.5 people (4 of my one and one in-law) that get to call me that. The rest is nice. Respect is important but don't force it down on someone.

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Apr 26 at 2020 10:09 AM

1SG John Aaron — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:09:45 -0400

I have only seen a few Veterans and active duty obsessed with their rank, in my opinion this obsession comes mostly from the spouses and family members. My wife has ran into this issue while I was active duty repeatedly and it comes from the spouses of senior NCOs and Officers towards the spouses of enlisted personnel.

Response by SSG Mary Keller made Apr 27 at 2020 3:51 AM

SSG Mary Keller — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:51:51 -0400

I give my husband a hard time in fun because I out rank him. I would never use my rank to get ahead in any line. I'm retired for one and two you have to wait your turn. Rank should never be used to jump ahead of people that are waiting and should never be used by a spouse to get in front of everyone waiting.

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made May 4 at 2020 11:53 PM

CW2 Jalistair B — Mon, 04 May 2020 23:53:29 -0400

As a life long single guy I never fully understood the spousal status based on what their husband's rank is game.

Response by SFC William Linnell made May 13 at 2020 8:04 AM

SFC William Linnell — Wed, 13 May 2020 08:04:11 -0400

Greetings All,
I am a retired SFC Army tanker. I did 27 years and it was the best job I ever had. Now down to brass tax. While on active duty right after 911 happened we started pulling gate guard. My Company had Clear Creek on Ft Hood at the time. Checking ID cards, I told my guys to always be kind and courteous with Sir and Ma'am. We addressed retirees and active by their ranks. Retired Officers we saluted and addressed the NCO ranks accordingly. I didn't know the protocol with saluting retired Officers but looked at it like this, they can still be called back to active duty so when in doubt whip it out. I feel and go by this very strongly that calling retirees by their rank is an honor that they earned and will do so until they say to address them differently when they are comfortable with you.

I agree with you Sir about the stereotyping, though I haven't ran across it in the 8 years of being retired. Maybe its more around the post with the wives that need to be put in check. I have witnessed that more so on active duty than with the guys themselves. Also with the rank card it could be some NCO's way of feeling powerful over a less ranking Soldier. The same with some CSM's. I started to notice a shift of on the spot corrections to full blown trying to slam the individual for Art 15. I always believe an ass chewing was constructive criticism which you move the Soldier off to the side, correct them, fix it and move out with no embarrassing moments with a crowd around.

Did I go off topic? It was about wives and using their husbands rank. The husbands need to control that but if it's not brought to their attention then how does it get corrected?

Response by Sgt Jack Cheung made May 13 at 2020 9:41 PM

Sgt Jack Cheung — Wed, 13 May 2020 21:41:02 -0400

I have a few veterans who are in my MBA class now, they actually prefer to be called by their name in lieu of their ranks. Took some getting used to since I am the only enlisted!

Response by SGT Doug Blanchard made May 17 at 2020 9:19 PM

SGT Doug Blanchard — Sun, 17 May 2020 21:19:06 -0400

I have two friends that are both retired captains. One that was Army Reserve the other Air Force. Both were mustang and got their college degrees as E-5s. They both insist that I call them captain. I have told them when you recognize my rank and refer to me by the rank I held when I got out in '83, then and only then will I recognize your rank you held. As you are both civilians now and are no longer on active duty. Now when a younger friend of mine who was a PFC in the Army and I get together, he has gave me the nickname Sarge. Which does not bother me. But for someone to insist they be called by the rank they held in the military and are now civilians, that is nothing but a sign of insecurity on their part.
Even in the VFW Post I am in there is a retired Major General, he insists that you call him by name, not by his rank.

Response by CPT Kevin Cromwell made May 18 at 2020 11:01 AM

CPT Kevin Cromwell — Mon, 18 May 2020 11:01:55 -0400

It is hard to forget the rank of a Commander we've had, or the CSM. Often they request I use their first name, and I will. If not, I have no problem using their rank in front of their name. Personally, I respect one's rank, Sgt, or BG.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2020 2:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2020 14:29:32 -0400

Because some people suck Sir. Some people really suck.

Response by Sgt Ken Holsworth made May 19 at 2020 8:01 AM

Sgt Ken Holsworth — Tue, 19 May 2020 08:01:58 -0400

rank is an accomplishment and cannot be used except for military purposes. My opinion

Response by Sgt Ken Holsworth made May 19 at 2020 8:04 AM

Sgt Ken Holsworth — Tue, 19 May 2020 08:04:25 -0400

Rank is an accomplishment used for reference while in the service. Means nothing to civilians

Response by MCPO Mark Burns made May 22 at 2020 8:01 AM

MCPO Mark Burns — Fri, 22 May 2020 08:01:05 -0400

I respect all veterans. If you are hung up on rank after you are retired, Get a life.

Response by SGT Robert Pryor made May 24 at 2020 1:17 PM

SGT Robert Pryor — Sun, 24 May 2020 13:17:52 -0400

I really don't care to address any veteran by their rank, and I especially don't like how RP places my rank on everything. Come on, I was medically retired after only 28 months in the Army -- and that was over 50 years ago -- that was then, this is now. I'd much rather be called a$$hole than Sergeant. It least I've been an A-hole for all of my adult life.

Response by Cpl Ernest Thomas made May 29 at 2020 8:00 AM

Cpl Ernest Thomas — Fri, 29 May 2020 08:00:53 -0400

I had a former Army major who got out by volnteeraily resigning his commjssion. He, and he was dead serious, tred to make me, a Marine CPL at the time, salute him (off base at that). He got a hardy FU. He reached out and grabbed my arm at which time he received a broken nose and a few rather large contusions. He then called local law enforcement while he, his 1st LT wife and myself waited. He was transported to the hospital and subsequently charged with simple assault and disorderly conduct. His 1st LT wife acted like a boot pvt at the scene. I walked away with a sore hand. Yea, don't pull that crap on us, it won't fly.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2020 11:54 AM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2020 11:54:41 -0400

Sir, I understand your point of view very much... but for my it's quite a culture shock, how american servicemen (and of course women) handle this matters.

See for me as a member of Swiss Army this "Sir" thing is a more or less strange world, because the swiss army is a lot more "democratic" than US oder GB armed forces. I served from 1991 (basic training) to 2003 as an enlisted anti-aircraft radioman. In our Battery (HQ&Staff) where on first name base with almost everybody... some of the older guys even with the CO. Since 2004 I serve as a commissioned reserve chaplain, first in a batallion staff now in a Division staff. The whole staff is on first name base, the senior guys inclusive the CG. As a member of the CARE Team Swiss Army, I'm assigned to special duties like notification of NoK after fatal training accidents. The Army take use of my civilian capacity and competence as a emergency chaplain, i got about a dozen such notifications under my belt meanwhile. So once came the day and I was assigned to the commanding one star of a pilot who was killed. I reported of course as I learned it almost 30 years ago. He looked at me and said "can you stop that "general"-stuff and call me by my first Name or Callsign (he's a Pilot) whatever you prefer... and by the way, what's your first name." Then we get on our mission to notify the mother of our dead comrade.

Response by LTC Meloni Beauchamp made Jun 3 at 2020 11:54 AM

LTC Meloni Beauchamp — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 11:54:10 -0400

This reply doesn't necessarily answer the question of why some people feel like they can wave their (or worse yet, their spouses rank) around, which I will never understand. However; I remember a story my husband told me when he and a friend were taking college courses on nights and weekends trying to finish their degrees. A student asked them why military people had to or wanted to be addressed by rank. My husband's explanation was that like most other professions, there are things one must do to be promoted in their chosen field and that includes education, professional development, taking on tougher assignments, etc. They earned the rank and the respect that goes with it. Not to wield it like a club over others, but as an indication of professional achievement.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made Jun 7 at 2020 5:05 PM

CPT Derek Wren — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 17:05:46 -0400

I was first and foremost Derek before rank ever came into play. As I obtained rank as an Officer I never lost that mentality, unfortunately many others do and or have and thrive off of it. Every now and then hearing CPT Wren has a nice ring to it lol, but still Derek.

Response by PO2 Chuck Tweddell made Jun 9 at 2020 4:42 PM

PO2 Chuck Tweddell — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:42:49 -0400

We are brothers in arms, end of story. We all put our pants on 1 leg at a time!

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Jun 9 at 2020 11:27 PM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 23:27:20 -0400

Rank status while in civilian attire is neutral when in common and public places. It's first come / first served. Spouses has no business using their spouses rank to gain precedence over others. The same with Veteran's & retiree's. Matter fact any military person when in uniform must give way to the civilian, veteran or retiree in common & public places. However at least on a military base there maybe lane/s open for personnel in uniform during peak times (1100 - 1300) but still rank has no precedence over another while in line.

Response by LT Ilan Wilde made Jun 11 at 2020 6:48 PM

LT Ilan Wilde — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:48:30 -0400

Before retiring as Lt (O3 USN), I was E7, CWO4. I never cared what the rank was (except on payday), and tried to treat everyone with respect. Bein an HM and Physician Assitant, I only saw coworkers, patients or people.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jun 21 at 2020 5:28 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 21 Jun 2020 05:28:44 -0400

Sir, from what I experienced when I was in the Army and married, it's mostly the wives who like to wear their husbands rank on their sleeves. My advice to people like them is if they enjoy wearing their spouses rank so much, they should join the military themselves.

Response by PO1 Richard Mecom made Jun 25 at 2020 8:55 AM

PO1 Richard Mecom — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 08:55:12 -0400

There are JERKS everywhere.

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Jun 26 at 2020 2:53 PM

MSG Felipe De Leon Brown — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 14:53:26 -0400

While I personally am proud of the rank that I earned while in Active Service, I find it insulting that one would use his/her rank to cajole/coerce another or stereotype another because of their rank. I served in two Sergeants Major (E9) billets during my last five years and was even addressed as "Sergeant Major" but never forgot that my rank was Master Sergeant. I felt that I had no right to ever, as many say would say, "play the Rank Card" nor stereotype another because of his/her rank regardless of branch of service. The respect that one enjoys should only come from his/her actions and comportment and never ever because of their rank.

Response by MSG Don Burt made Jun 28 at 2020 4:55 PM

MSG Don Burt — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 16:55:01 -0400

If you're out in public and know the person, it's a matter of COMMON COURTESY AND RESPECT!
I was taught that before entering the service and after joining...obviously, if you wouldn't know the person, then nothing to do. Sometimes, if the retired Officer has some form of external ID, then CCR takes over, and as you said, if you know them, then first name is used. I dislike folks who abuse their or spouse's position and typically let it fly, but sometimes ya just gotta let it out....!

Response by SGT Michael Hearn made Jul 9 at 2020 11:22 PM

SGT Michael Hearn — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:22:40 -0400

The way I see it is we all served each important in their own way, I came home 100%SC I don't say much about it But I am proud to have served with some fine men and woman, We all took the oath to write a blank check to the government with our lives,

Response by PO2 Bull Halsey made Jul 12 at 2020 8:37 PM

PO2 Bull Halsey — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:37:27 -0400

Because human psychology ranks our selves in any group of other humans automatically. It is a sign of respect or social status in more rigid military cultures. This is also how we pick our spouses.

Response by PO2 Bull Halsey made Jul 12 at 2020 8:39 PM

PO2 Bull Halsey — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:39:09 -0400

Human Social Psychology requires we rank ourselves as an individual in any human gathering. It can be an honor or a putdown depending on how the other interprets it according to their self-ranking. But without judgment, it is normal and also how we pick our spouses.

Response by SGM Omer Dalton made Jul 12 at 2020 8:50 PM

SGM Omer Dalton — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:50:57 -0400

Rank in retirement is a personal thing and no longer has status in the civilian world. Case in point I retired from the Army and entered civil service where I was the supervisor/rater for civilians, enlisted soldiers, and officers. I used my experience as a prior NCO but my previous rank had no meaning except maybe in BS conversations at the VFW, American Legion, or with old Army buddies. Tell your wife to ignore the other person. Just smile and move on.

Response by SGM Omer Dalton made Jul 12 at 2020 9:03 PM

SGM Omer Dalton — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:03:53 -0400

I worked for a COL as a civilian that tried to treat civilians and his staff division like a military unit. I often bumped heads with him trying to get him to lighten up. Then be retired and went to work for a civilian contractor I had dealings with. He had a rude awakening and later confined in me that he finally understood what I was trying to tell him. It is just hard for some folks to make the transition and have to learn the hard way.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jul 16 at 2020 1:38 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:38:46 -0400

When somebody plays the "rank card", if they're retired, I just say " With all due respect sir/mam, all these people have been waiting in line for longer than you have been shoping. Please wait your turn in line". If that person keeps insisting that "RHIP", then my response will be "FOAD, Bitch, get to the back of the line". I'm retired, what are they going to do?

Response by PO2 Reta Russell Houghton made Jul 16 at 2020 8:57 PM

PO2 Reta Russell Houghton — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:57:09 -0400

I never used my spouse’s rank, it wasn’t mine. Spouses, unless they are service members, have no rank. But, I did know some officer’s wives that did, which I thought was ridiculous. There are those that think there is a peaking order, for enlisted and officer spouses.
And at the same time my husband made it clear that we were not a two for one deal. I was not required to participate because of his rank.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2020 10:32 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 22:32:33 -0400

Because they are morons and don't respect what was sacrificed to stay long enough to even say you retired from the Military. I did 35 years and I never even ask other retirees what rank they retired at. Once a person retires regardless of rank they should all be respected equally.

Response by SPC Lynda Gates made Jul 22 at 2020 1:21 PM

SPC Lynda Gates — Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:21:48 -0400

The glitz and glamour was nice! They earned it. They served right along side of their husbands. So yes, I recognize your sacrifice. But other soldiers wives sacrifice too to reach this point and they are retired too! Both served and retired. Let's treat each other like retired people with respect and dignity but rank no longer plays apart.

Response by SSgt Kathy Ragsdale made Aug 1 at 2020 12:13 PM

SSgt Kathy Ragsdale — Sat, 01 Aug 2020 12:13:30 -0400

When a spouse would try that with me I'd say I'm active duty (in uniform) and I don't care who your spouse is. It would especially irritate me when it was during the two hour active duty in uniform priority period (11am - 1pm).

Response by SPC Brian Ezell made Aug 6 at 2020 8:09 AM

SPC Brian Ezell — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 08:09:00 -0400

I agree that once you are no longer in service that this behavior of playing the rank card is ridiculous and unnecessary.

Response by CMSgt Ricky Keil made Aug 6 at 2020 12:34 PM

CMSgt Ricky Keil — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 12:34:10 -0400

I had this happen on Active Duty. I was a Senior Airman assigned to an Army Kaserne in Germany and we lived in Army barracks. I went in for a dental appointment and the receptionist made a very condescending remark that her husband was the First Sergeant in charge of the barracks we lived in as if she held the same rank, and I simply replied that I didn't like him much either.

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Aug 6 at 2020 4:49 PM

SP5 Derick Johnsohne — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:49:46 -0400

ingrained conditioning for some . personally, i dont care but it depends on the other person's reaction, if one want to be distant, i will remain distant .

Response by LTC David Speidel made Aug 6 at 2020 11:14 PM

LTC David Speidel — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 23:14:14 -0400

I have not left any messages on RP for some time. This one hits wrong all the way around. First most commissary experience was mine alone or with my wife. Last few years on a Air Force Base. Never saw this ever! If had would have to assume that not so much rank had pliverage, but something had been pressing. If had see any issue it was with teenager on the run at an airport. Just needed to slow down. Certainly any case not worth getting out of sorts.

Response by SSG Lawrence Stelzer made Aug 7 at 2020 6:40 PM

SSG Lawrence Stelzer — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 18:40:38 -0400

She should not be using that card in public respect it but you should of got here early we are not in uniform now and by way must upper rank have their underclass men come first

Response by COL Thom Brooks made Aug 7 at 2020 8:52 PM

COL Thom Brooks — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 20:52:34 -0400

Interesting and a bit troubling. I don;t think (and hope not) that this is a common occurrence. Sounds like the woman has serious issues. I hope, and anticipate, this is not a normal or prolific situation.

Response by SPC Wade Cassal made Aug 9 at 2020 12:10 AM

SPC Wade Cassal — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 00:10:21 -0400

Got out in 86 and out here in the real world Rank doesn’t mean anything. The only thing we have is respect for one another. A private in the Army can be a Major in the Marines boss. It’s a different world out here.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Aug 9 at 2020 10:25 AM

MSgt Don Dobbs — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 10:25:12 -0400

I had a few trainees mention their Father's rank as if to impress me. Huge mistake you can imagine my response. I won't go into detail but it usually started " Slick, you just volunteered for every detail I can dream up. Why don't you write Daddy and see if he can help you". When my oldest son went in I told him never mention me, he didn't when I went to his graduation his Training Superintendent was a fellow instructor whom I worked with before. He never realized my son was in his Squadron.

Response by PO2 Joan Feledy made Aug 9 at 2020 11:51 AM

PO2 Joan Feledy — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:51:39 -0400

As I stated below, many of the wives of my husband's shipmates were royal bitches. I don't know why so many are like that, but it is why we chose to never live on base in base housing and I only attended one affair during a deployment for the spouses after I found out how the officer's wives treated the enlisted wives/but not the husbands. Most of those women were unbearable, so I did not associate anymore.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2020 7:14 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 19:14:09 -0400

Agreed 200%, Col.!

Response by Sgt John Koliha made Aug 9 at 2020 7:35 PM

Sgt John Koliha — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 19:35:39 -0400

Aretha has the answer: R - E - S - P - E - C - T.

Response by PFC Kimberly LaVoie made Aug 9 at 2020 7:40 PM

PFC Kimberly LaVoie — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 19:40:24 -0400

In my world there is no room for it. I respected (for the most part) rank while in the army. Respect as a civilian comes from what one has done or how someone treats someone else. Mrs. Major strikes me as an ex cheerleader who never really graduated high school. Admittedly, my retired civilian world is not populated with retired generals. I suspect they reside in either different zip codes, or, at least within gated communities. I have yet to see anyone in a supermarket claim rank as a right to cut a line

Response by CPT Vance Walden made Aug 10 at 2020 6:53 PM

CPT Vance Walden — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:53:58 -0400

I was a captain when I left the service, and I work with many retired officers through my work. I address them by their first name regardless of rank, except for flag officers. Even when I am requestd to address them by first name, I still address them as "sir" as a sign of respect. Spouses who "attempt" to play their husband's rank game need to be firmly routed into reality and obviosly do not understand the serving role of leadership. The CGs wife got it right!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2020 9:13 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:13:05 -0400

I honestly have not witnessed this in 33 years of active duty or during the last year as a retiree, but then again I am a Marine, and I have served under great leadership. Marines are taught that seniors eat last. If it's something unpleasant, like a physical fitness test, combat fitness test, or Antrax shot, seniors usually go first. This is to set the example. If it's something that is perceived as pleasant, seniors voluntarily go to the back of the line. I've personally witnessed this being enforced at the SNCO and Officer level. I remember during one field exercise, we had some junior Marines, from an adjacent unit, join us unexpectedly for evening chow. We ran out of meat before the CO and SgtMaj was served. They didn't complain or yell at the Mess Sergeant and this did not go unnoticed by the other Marines. Good leaders understand that Rank has more responsibility than privilege!

Response by SFC Lawrence Born made Aug 10 at 2020 10:51 PM

SFC Lawrence Born — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:51:23 -0400

I live just south of the USAFA and use the facilities there. In this area and on that base you can't swing a dead cat without hitting multiple retired O6 and ups. As a retiree I treat treat all retirees the same. In the gym, at the commissary etc. If they introduce themselves by rank I will avoid them usually, it is a VERY telling trait to be so insecure with yourself that you have to hold onto that(these same folks will put their (R) rank in their civilian email signature blocks FFS). As for spouses .....THAT is something that chaps my ass on the regular. My wife, and all the others throughout the military community, have sacrificed during our service BUT have NOT EARNED any part of rank.....even though they think sleeping with someone passes it by osmosis. They troll for salutes at the gate, fight over reserved parking spots, etc. This is PAINFULLY evident in the O6 and above crowd. Even before I got my glorious blue card I had NO qualms about describing how I have absolutely no f$%ks to give about "who their husband is!!!" Perhaps a luxury of serving the last half of my tenure in SOF was having leadership that would have never entertained complaints about it. :) I would seriously doubt the leadership of anyone whose spouse acted in such ways. As leaders we are meant to serve and it is disgraceful when folks forget that. Additional food for thought, if you are a senior leader living in brand new E8/O4 and above, large housing units on base, have junior enlisted folks living in 50 year old quarters and YOU aren't trying to fix that you should reconsider your role as a leader.

Response by SFC Patricia Tucker made Aug 10 at 2020 11:20 PM

SFC Patricia Tucker — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:20:40 -0400

I think because they are missing "the glory days", sort of like the HS football hero that is not longer playing football. I run into some of the soldiers I knew when I was in and they still call me by rank until I stop them and tell them my first name and let them know, by action, that we are now equal. I have a life after retirement and have gone onto other things. Some have not.

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Aug 11 at 2020 3:12 AM

CPO Jack De Merit — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:12:58 -0400

Those who stereotype by rank usually feel that they deserved more or they may be lying to make people think they were better than they actually were. When I made Chief Lithographer in 1972, 11 years after joining the Navy, the testing center sent me a congratulations letter. They informed me that I was the only candidate for Chief Lithographer who passed the advancement exam. When I took the Senior Chief exam in 1975 I was again informed that I was the only candidate who passed the exam BUT, I was not being advanced because of Affirmative Action. The way they explained it was that someone felt that not enough blacks were being advanced in Rank simply because they were black and not because they could not pass the test. I was told the name of the black Chief who was being advanced and it turned out to be someone I knew from the Naval Reserve Center in Encino, California. What was truly sad was that he had not been a lithographer for more than 15 years and he did not pass the exam. For me, it was cest la vie. I congratulated him and figured next year for me. For the next three years I passed the exam and was quoted because there was no billet for another Senior Chief. Since I knew that the Senior Chief from Encino would be eligible for Master Chief that I would get his Senior Chief billet. That did not happen. I was told that when he was advanced to Master Chief they eliminated his billet. How would you feel about that? Whenever I meet someone with prior military service, I ask them when and where they served. That is what is important to me. I could care less what Rate or Rank they achieved.

Response by SCPO George Colbow made Aug 11 at 2020 12:01 PM

SCPO George Colbow — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 12:01:42 -0400

Many people get stuck on rank has its privlages after they retire. It's nothing new and will never change so just ignore it.

Response by SMSgt David A Asbury made Aug 11 at 2020 3:57 PM

SMSgt David A Asbury — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:57:18 -0400

Mike you have done a wonderful job when addressing others here on RP. I have waited until I am comfortable in calling a retiree by his first name out of RESPECT. Calling one by their first name gets their attention and drops that barrier we all have encounter during our time in the service. We see one another as a equal and leads to better understanding and communications. This is according to DAVE!

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Aug 11 at 2020 8:45 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:45:29 -0400

First, as a retiree, the advice I give to officers who ask me about succeeding in the civilian job market is to forget they were a ____. The deference you experienced on active duty isn't required once you leave active duty. That said, I was instrumental in establishing a military museum locally, and many retired and former military naturally turned to to lend a hand. I always introduce myself as Bob Quinter. If the individual responds with his rank and name, I will address them in that manner from then on. There have been several who, once they learn of my being a LtCol, have come back and reintroduced themselves in the same manner I used.
I once commanded a 1600 person unit. We were light on officers, had quite a few Staff NCOs and mostly young NCOs, E-2s and E-3s. We sent many detachments out in support of other units, and I soon found a great number of the wives of deployed Marines coming into the office for help from the S-1 or I would get calls Red Cross type organizations about a young wife in their office asking for help. The first thing I did was review our pre-deployment class syllabus and had it written to include more time on their responsibilities. The second thing I did was form an all ranks wives club. It was the first such organization in the Marine Corps on the East coast. We got the word out to all the wives that I was holding a reception and would like them all to attend if possible. I met with them and told them of my plan for an organization where they would have each other's support as well as get instruction on pay and other issues important to them. I then told them that they were as important to our unit as their husband or wives, and that my office was always open to them if there was a problem. I then introduced my wife and said, unless they wanted someone else, I expected her to organize the meetings. They met once a month and I had representatives from various offices come in and explain what they offered. What we found out was that some of the younger people understood pay and other things better than the SNCOs wives and soon, their husbands' pay grades were no longer important. They viewed themselves as people in the same situation who were trying to help each other, and that's exactly what they did. They were the wives of my unit and considered themselves as that. When I transferred out of the unit, my Commanding General had heard about the club, what it had accomplished and presented my wife with a letter of Commendation in his office for breaking down the separation between the various wife groups and made them realize they were not a Sgt Maj, LtCol or Majors' wife, but were the wives of Marines.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Aug 12 at 2020 10:03 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 10:03:13 -0400

I avoid commenting on a string twice, but I thought of a story I had to pass on. My wife was very young when we married and her only exposure to the military was while I was stationed in New Orleans, a very different experience than large military bases. I was ordered to Pendleton, which actually prompted our going from dating to marriage. We moved into quarters and she went on her first foray to the commissary. I was at work as the executive officer of a squadron when my phone rang and one of our admin folks advised me the Provost Marshall was on the phone asking if I was in the office. I had a feeling my wife had gotten into something because of her unfamiliarity with the rules and protocol. Once I got on the phone the conversation went something like; "Major, do you own a Lincoln with Louisiana plates? Yes sir. Do you know who might be driving it now? I assume my wife. Would she happen to be with a General or his wife? I don't believe so. Well, we've got a problem since your car is parked in the General Officers' parking space at the Commissary. Thank you sir, I'm on my way to get it moved.
After moving my car, I went into the Commissary, found my wife and asked her why she thought she could park in the General's space. In all innocence, she replied that she thought I was generally an officer and it was nice we had a reserved space. So began her rather intense briefing on military protocol.

Response by Sgt Steven Smith made Aug 12 at 2020 11:31 AM

Sgt Steven Smith — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:31:44 -0400

Spouces have always overstepped their station, in my opinion. You being an officer surprises me that yould ask this question. The rank card should never go away. That major needs to explain a few things to his wife, and your a Colonel, why havent you brought this up with the Major? Im struggling with you point of view, Sir..

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Aug 14 at 2020 3:04 AM

SGT Chester Beedle — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:04:17 -0400

Two or three different things here.
1. Retirees still have that rank. It's polite and proper to address a retiree by their rank, unless they are working as a civilian in an office with civilian and military personnel as it would confuse matters.
2. A veteran who didn't retire is a civilian once they reach 8 years. They no longer have rank, and are not subject to the UCMJ (unless they work for the military while overseas, but that's any civilian DoD employee).
3. Spouses are just that. Spouses, not servicemembers. They have zero rank. The Colonel's wife doesn't "outrank" a Specialist's husband. They are civilian dependents who deserve common courtesy, but nothing rank specific other than if that post still has an officer's or NCO club.

Response by Col Robert Wallace made Aug 14 at 2020 5:29 PM

Col Robert Wallace — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 17:29:46 -0400

Ah- the ol' RHIP card! Throughout my career, I have seen a few, not many, male service members try to play the "Rank Card", but most of the time it did not work because there is always someone with a higher rank than the "complainer". Another fact that I noticed was that is usually the female spouse who thinks they are entitled to privileges because of their husbands' rank. Sorry ladies, you did not earn the rank & not entitled to privileges like your husband. One more thing - flirting with a higher ranked superior does not increase the chances of your husband's promotion. Yes, you think you are being smart & no one knows but believe me, it is all to apparent when you do it.

Response by CPO Albert Kennison made Aug 16 at 2020 8:32 PM

CPO Albert Kennison — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:32:52 -0400

I am a retired CPO, and very proud to be called CHIEF. I do not use my rank in my civilian life, but working on a military installation, everyone calls me Chief.

Response by LTC Marie Boughen made Aug 18 at 2020 4:17 AM

LTC Marie Boughen — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 04:17:06 -0400

This almost seems like urban legend. Do people 'really' think they deserve a higher level of respect and privilege bc of another's achievements ? Thankfully I've never witnessed such behavior and have only known humble and kind CG wives. As a retired female officer, I would pay to see my husband push his way to the front of the line all the while I would be video taping it for Youtube. Any interest? Anyone want to start a gofundme?

Response by SSG Jeff Furgerson made Aug 20 at 2020 12:49 PM

SSG Jeff Furgerson — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:49:55 -0400

I still find myself referring to Officers as Sir or Ma’am but that is just a respect thing on my part, I was once called SSG F by one of my troops after I retired and I told them to call me Jeff as I am not their PSG any longer, it’s kind of puzzling to me that a spouse of a service member would think they could pull rank on someone else, it’s mind boggling most of here I believe and I can’t speak for everyone would pull the rank card , here we are all brothers and sisters in arms who served our country. I guess I don’t know enough about spouses pulling rank, my wife never tried that with anybody but me lol.

Response by MSG David King made Aug 30 at 2020 12:40 PM

MSG David King — Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:40:12 -0400

When I was on active duty my first name was Master Sergeant. Today it's Master Sergeant (Ret). The difference is I'm happier today and don't care to engage a family member who does not realize their first name is is not their spouses.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2020 12:03 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Sep 2020 00:03:12 -0400

Personally I have never had someone of higher rank ever try to cut in line if they out ranked me and I would not let them. If they are not big boy or girl enough to wait their turn in line then they need to go to childcare as one of the kids being watched cause that is what they are acting like.

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Sep 16 at 2020 11:37 AM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:37:29 -0400

I earned my rank and it remains mine for all time. That being said my wife has never used my rank in her dealings with the public. Also, I still address both my seniors and my sub ordinates by their ranks as a sign of my respect for their services, sacrifices, friendship.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Sep 18 at 2020 10:08 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Fri, 18 Sep 2020 10:08:49 -0400

After I retired, it took a while to deprogram myself from the military but just try being nice and a good (civilian) citizen. There are likely others in line who outranked you or your sponsor anyway. Don't make yourself look foolish.

Response by LTC Thomas Tennant made Sep 18 at 2020 1:35 PM

LTC Thomas Tennant — Fri, 18 Sep 2020 13:35:39 -0400

I got a laugh when somebody plays the rink card. At the last family reunion, my cousin's wife yelled out "hey colonel tennant." At jthat moment 12 of us said yes ma'am. We all started to laugh. My father, the only GO, laughed his ass off...then said "remember our wives outrank us all." The spouses that insit on wearing their partners rank do only discredit to the service member and ultimately demean themselves. It doesn't matter If they are the wife or significant other of a higher ranking official, they have to remember they're just the spouse, and they are not entitled to any respect and difference. That has to be earned.

Response by SrA Angel Rodriguez made Sep 28 at 2020 10:56 PM

SrA Angel Rodriguez — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 22:56:46 -0400

Sounds like a lot of high school nonsense. SMH.

Response by SFC Richard Williamson made Sep 29 at 2020 8:02 AM

SFC Richard Williamson — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 08:02:06 -0400

My ex tried playing the rank card, once too many times, and that is why she became "Ex" wife. I call everyone, especially officers, by their rank, at least once. Normally, I ask an individual how they prefer to be addressed, and move forward from there.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Oct 6 at 2020 11:00 AM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 11:00:39 -0400

I give some respect to people who were higher ranked (or rated, because, you know, terminology) before, but after the service I consider myself to be exactly the same as anyone else who served. Veterans have no ranks or rates or any other sort of seniority. I DO understand that a commission in the armed forces is for life, so yes, if you retired as a Colonel and someone else retired as a Major, then technically you would still out rank him or her. However, spouses of military members who have zero military service have zero military rank. Saying that my husband is an Admiral so I get to go to the front of the line to me sounds like "Oh yeah, my dad can beat up your dad!" that I heard so much as a small child.

When I say I give some respect to those people, I respect the fact that they were a senior person in their chosen field, the same way I would defer to a senior software engineer if I'm an entry level code monkey.

I used to call a fellow Skipper at the Jungle Cruise (at Disneyland in California) TM1 when we both worked there, because that's what he was in the Navy. I did it because it was kind of funny and my way of showing him respect for being more senior when we were both on active duty (even though we met years later, our service years overlapped a little), but usually he would pull the reverse rank card on me there (I was a trainer at the time, so I was senior to him at the attraction as part of the leadership team there and he hadn't been made a trainer yet) and tell me that I was in charge or the responsible one since I was senior at our location. Usually it was as a way of him avoiding having to do something that required responsibility.

Response by Capt Edward Egan made Oct 10 at 2020 4:39 PM

Capt Edward Egan — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 16:39:08 -0400

My ex-wife, when she was my new bride, liked to drive my rather distinctive convertible through the base gate to get the salute for the officer's sticker on my car. One time, the gate guard (who'd been one of my crew chiefs in Vietnam) told her "Mrs. Egan, if you don't slow down I'll have to tell the Captain". Well, he told me anyway. We had a discussion, and that was the last time she did anything like that.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Oct 11 at 2020 3:58 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 15:58:03 -0400

I'm proud of what I am.

Response by 1SG Michael Anthony Gonzales made Oct 13 at 2020 1:38 PM

1SG Michael Anthony Gonzales — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 13:38:17 -0400

Almost after 30 years of service, I respect ALL ranks and prior service personnel; from privates to Generals.

We all sacrificed our time; our mental state of mind; our physical pain; and some, our lives.

We are the 1% of Americans, who volunteered or was drafted, to Serve Our Country, the United States of America!

I’m a proud American that has served side by side with other Americans. Hooah.

Response by PO3 Jerome Wilson made Oct 16 at 2020 9:45 AM

PO3 Jerome Wilson — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 09:45:10 -0400

I would like to add my two cents in response to rank card. I severed honorably two 4 year tours, but when I wanted to discharge and take my sperantion leave which I had accrued I was denied. I was stationed aboard an aircraft carrier and I petitioned for a captain mass all the way up the chain of command and was denied. Then I was extended for the benefit of the government. Now due to my rate and rank DK3(disbursing clerk)I wanted to leave the service because I had 8 years in and was still a petty offer third class. Which bother me because I had seen guys come in and due to their rate would rank faster then me even though I had served more time. The problem with that is we do judge a person based on their rank that's the whole purpose of the military hierarchy. Everything in the military is structured around rank, our pay and benefits are directly connected. So is the main control and discipline structure you would have chaos if you didn’t have a structured of respect for rank. However it doesn’t always mean because someone outrank you they should be respected more than you. Also your opinion touch on a bigger issue should a spouse or dependent be able to Usurp the rank of the service member? As the structure is today even though I wasn't able to attain a higher rank I still feel there should be deference given to those who attain it...that’s my opinion.

Response by PO2 Leo Fredette made Oct 21 at 2020 10:24 AM

PO2 Leo Fredette — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 10:24:49 -0400

Hey, it is a free country. You need to fix your question "Why do ( some ) veterans and active duty members... " To label every single veteran& active duty, pretty egotistical of you. Or do you actual claim you can read everyone's mind?

Response by PO1 Christopher Fortner made Oct 21 at 2020 12:48 PM

PO1 Christopher Fortner — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 12:48:35 -0400

Goddamn dependapotimus I love how they believe their husbands rank somehow passes on to them. I'd pop her in the mouth and feed her husband the teeth.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Oct 25 at 2020 4:39 PM

LTJG Sandra Smith — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 16:39:42 -0400

I only "played the rank card" once in my life, when junior officer was getting a bit out of line at a reception. He tried telling me, as I was in civvies,I couldn't pull Daddy's rank; I simply presented my ID and informed him I wasn't, I was pulling my own, and his conduct was unbecoming. But since I left active duty, it seems to me, as veterans, our ranks or rates are immaterial, we are all veterans who served a common purpose, and equally deserving of respect for that. Rank or rate serves a purpose on active duty, but not afterwards.

Response by SFC Stephen Scott made Nov 4 at 2020 6:05 PM

SFC Stephen Scott — Wed, 04 Nov 2020 18:05:33 -0500

I saw this same thing happens many times during my military career and it was just not the officers, either. At one post the Post Sargent Major's wife wore his stripes on her clothing to let everyone know who she was the wife of, so things haven't changed much over the years.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2020 1:36 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 13:36:49 -0500

I served from E-1 - E-4 and then O-1 to O-6 ... I don't use my rank in my post-military years unless asked. I'm equally proud of my E as I am of my O time ... without a doubt. My wife never threw my rank around. She wasn't too impressed with the OIC crowd either ... she saw it as "who's turn is it to get an award" group.

Response by COL John Kuykendall made Nov 8 at 2020 1:42 PM

COL John Kuykendall — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 13:42:55 -0500

I too use rank at times. One is when I am writing a more than social letter to a business. "A little respect please" other times is when I show card at gate I get saluted and I salute back.
If I am at a meeting with active and retired service members ranks are used on individual basis

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2020 5:18 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 17:18:12 -0500

I have noticed that former officers have a peculiar way of 'talking down' to civilians ! Which aggravates me because the Military system was formed so as to serve the needs of a Civilian population. I have supervised as many as 5000 men on Construction projects ! I was held in high esteem by the Officers & the NCO's with whom I worked while in afg.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Nov 8 at 2020 7:42 PM

1SG Alan Boggs — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 19:42:11 -0500

I may have already said this but, depth of knowledge in matters of the military can only be learned from the inside. I hold no disrespect against soldiers of any rank but a veteran of 4 years service does not possess knowledge of matter concerning seniors NCOs. Life experiences, yes. Most valuable in themselves.

Response by SFC Chuck Martinez made Nov 8 at 2020 10:11 PM

SFC Chuck Martinez — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 22:11:40 -0500

I agree with you 100% Mike, we all know what we were in the service and what we accomplished. While curtesy sometimes has a lot to do with it, as far as I'm concern, Chuck is fine with me. We all know what we did in the service to our country but when we leave the service our uniforms go into a closet to collect dust. This is a place where we can all tell and share our stories and at the same time become close friends. Rank is just a title we used to have and that is past history, we are now called veterans regardless of the rank we obtained while in service of. Respect is given to all veterans because all were volunteers since the draft was eliminated years ago. Still all those that were drafted must also be respected because they did not run across the borders into Canada or Mexico. No matter how you put it, we are all proud that we did served our country and with honor. I'm glad you bought this up because we are now all civilians but at the same time, veterans who served proudly.

Response by MSgt Roger Bon made Nov 9 at 2020 1:06 AM

MSgt Roger Bon — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 01:06:43 -0500

Military Rank after retirement is no different than personnel in other government services. Example: A Senator or Congressman/woman who is no longer in office is still referred to as Congressman/woman.

Roger Bon, MSgt, USAF, Retired

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Nov 9 at 2020 7:54 AM

A1C Riley Sanders — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 07:54:10 -0500

COL Mikel Burroughs :
Why play the" Rank Card?"
"Because we are not all Leaders" , First name basis puts every one on the same level which will serve to tear down Organization. will tear" Rally Point" apart. Rally Point was was created for the Military, active and Veterans , where would our Military be with out the recognition of Rank? or any Organization . Sounds like this lady is spreading discourse and needs recognize her place and fall in or fall out.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Nov 9 at 2020 8:47 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:47:39 -0500

Very poor character for the woman trying to wear her husband's rank.

Response by MSG Clyde Mills made Nov 9 at 2020 10:40 AM

MSG Clyde Mills — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 10:40:34 -0500

Yes, I too had this very thing happen as well while serving a tour in Germany. It seems as though, if the wives were married to Officer's they were somehow deemed too good to even talk to or associate with any spouse of an enlisted soldier. As if it was degrading to do such a thing, that the only other spouse's they should or would ever associate with would only be another Officer's wife. The thing is, spouses of any military personnel are not under the fraternization rules like their spouses are, but seem to adopt such rules. Thus missing out on some great friendships that could develop during their time at each Military Base of their spouses Career.

Response by PO1 John Juarez made Nov 9 at 2020 6:37 PM

PO1 John Juarez — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 18:37:13 -0500

A wife is just that....a wife! She has no rank/Paygrade. She deserves no special privileges for what her spouse does. During the first night of the Invasion of Panama “Operation Just Cause” a bunch of us had been gathered underneath one of the houses on Ft. Amador a joint Panamanian/US base. During the night a junior naval officers wife asked the Army unit protecting us to segregate the enlisted from the officers families!!! This is during the first hours of the Invasion and tracers were zipping around and explosions going off not too damned far from where we were hunkered down....
The Army soldier basically told her to “shut her sick and go take care of her kids, that they had more important issues to worry about!

Response by SFC Chuck Martinez made Nov 9 at 2020 8:13 PM

SFC Chuck Martinez — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 20:13:22 -0500

I agree with you 100% sir and that is why I changed my picture to civilian attire! Like I stated before, I am proud of what I accomplished as a soldier and law enforcement officer. Many of my military connections which I worked with all call me Chuck. I actually do not want to be called SFC or platoon Sgt. because that is no longer my title. I don't even like anybody calling me Mr. Chuck Martinez simply because I am 100% retired but still proud of what I have accomplished. Many of my ex military brothers still call me or we chat quite a bit on FB. I had my buddy Eddie and his wife come visit me here in Washington and they stayed with me and my wife a couple of days and boy we sure talked about the old days. Several of my Nam brothers have passed, like Major Daniel Rogers who passed a year ago. We talked every week and I really miss him, he was a good soldier and officer. I called him Dan and he called me Chuck, we left the rank behind us a long time ago because the rank structure did not apply to us anymore. I will always respect every person that served in times of war or peace. I always wonder what happened to all my brothers I served with in times of war and in times of peace, both enlisted and officers. There is one thing that is very important to me when it comes to ex-military and those that are still serving and that is respect!! Every single individual in this community regardless of your former rank, male or female have my utmost respect. The beauty of it all, is the camaraderie I see with all members in this group, the respect rendered is well received!! Chuck M.

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Nov 10 at 2020 12:31 AM

SMSgt Bob W. — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 00:31:36 -0500

Some say out of respect the MILITARY MEMBER achieved during their time in service. However, the wife of the military member is [1] a wife, [2] a dependent and [3] has NO privilege of rank. However, #2--the military facility acerbates the problem by giving every O-6 and above, E-9s, Soldier/NCO of the month, a reserve parking space at the Exchange, Commissary, medical facility, and etc. Who uses these spots—the spouse of course. That allows them to think they are the equal [and have the rank] privilege to their spouse.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2020 3:41 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 15:41:29 -0500

The world is well familiar with the coffee bean, which is a bean from the African country of Kenya, more here coffeespecies.com/kenyan-coffee/.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2020 3:41 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 15:41:44 -0500

The world is well familiar with the coffee bean, which is a bean from the African country of Kenya, more here coffeespecies.com/kenyan-coffee/ .

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2020 3:42 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 15:42:10 -0500

The world is well familiar with the coffee bean, which is a bean from the African country of Kenya, more here https://coffeespecies.com/kenyan-coffee/ .

Best Kenyan Coffee of 2020 | Top Brands & Reviews- Coffee Species

Kenyan coffee has captured global attention and become a staple beverage in many households. But to get that unique taste of the tropical coffee, you have to find the best coffee of Kenya.

Response by SFC Peter Krarup made Nov 12 at 2020 11:59 PM

SFC Peter Krarup — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 23:59:21 -0500

COL Burroughs, you say, "I think once we leave the service there shouldn't be a stereotyping of rank or service - we should get along and respect each other as veterans and retirees that served a "common purpose!"", and I agree completely. My experience has been that, in the main, many officers still have a "holier than thou" attitude towards the enlisted, and the "ring-knockers" are sometimes the worst of them, although I've met several West Pointers that are the best men ever.

Few officers get involved with the VFW or Legion, even though we (as a member of both) would love their knowledge & expertise. Many officers are thankfully not like that, but try going into a VFW or Legion meeting and asking for a show of hands of officer vs. enlisted and see what happens.

Is there a way to fix this? Yes, indeed, but it would have to start at the academies and filter down to the ROTCs and OCS. I'm sure you remember the "3 Ms", mission, men, myself; well, that doesn't stop when retirement shows up. We all swore the oaths of enlistment & commissioning, and so far, no-one has informed me that my oath has been retired. I continue to serve, perhaps "The Retired Officer" magazines and "Military Officer Magazines" should remind others? Funny, I'm not aware of any "Retired NCO/SNCO Magazine", are you?

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Nov 13 at 2020 1:15 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 01:15:26 -0500

Why? Because there are those who held some of these high ranking positions became so ARROGANT to allow that rank, and that title go to their head. I see this in my current job as well. Because the "officers" in the Military Sealift Command have a license, they think that unlicensed individuals like myself don't know anything, despite the fact that for example, Able Seaman like myself bring years of military experience to the table when it comes to some of the jobs we have to do on whatever ship we sail on.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 13 at 2020 12:41 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:41:57 -0500

I didn't know that wives wore their husband's rank, but apparently some think they do. When I was a troop, an officer's wife got out of her car and opened her door into the side of mine leaving a mark on the paint. I got out to look (I guess she didn't realize I was still in my car) and she proceeded to yell at me as if I was the one at fault for parking too close and I was well within the lines. She looked to be in her late 30's, early 40's and acted all hoity-toity so her husband was at least field grade... I was just kind of dumbfounded at her response and I just didn't think it was worth pressing the issue. But it did leave an impression and I can't say it was favorable.

Response by SFC Chuck Martinez made Nov 18 at 2020 1:21 PM

SFC Chuck Martinez — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:21:29 -0500

My brother and friend COL Mike J. Burroughs, I not only respect the rank you achieved, I also respect the way you treat all veterans here in RP. You have my utmost respect and that will never change. I have my own group on FB with only Vietnam War Vets and many were officers. Since we shed our uniforms, we were all on the first name basis. We had annual reunions in Ohio every June or July, mostly members of our unit, B co 1/18 1st Infantry Div. from 1965-1967. My platoon leader, retired Major Danial (Dan) Rogers passed away a year ago with several other members of our unit. We were veterans, then civilians but still brothers who all went by our first name. I used to visit them when my wife and I used to go cross country in our RV and they always had a room for us. My point Mike, when in the military, I always snapped a salute to all officers whenever they crossed by path. Military curtesy is a practice we must use to reinforce discipline not only within our of chain of command but with all officers form all branches of service. We never called them by their rank but simply Sir and they would reply to us as sergeant or whatever rank we were. The salute would automatically show respect and military curtesy. As a civilian, I still respect the ranks all obtained while in service of this great nation! Respectfully, Chuck M.

Response by SSgt Ryan Van Cleave made Nov 18 at 2020 1:22 PM

SSgt Ryan Van Cleave — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:22:21 -0500

I'm of the opinion that it often, but not always, depends on whether a person has elevated since retirement. Also; attributing the confrontation to rank and file is an easy match to make but isn't necessarily the reason she acted "better than". Unless she specifically vocalized the discrimination, it could be any number of other issues. If it is something that keeps you up at night and is noticed regularly, there could be a bit of hyper focus involved. Like the minority (black, white, brown, whatever) that will always find a way of bringing it up in a combative way no matter what the original topic might be. I've gone through a stage like that myself so I know that it is difficult to even think about that possibility, but it is one.

Response by Sgt Dennis Doty made Nov 18 at 2020 8:50 PM

Sgt Dennis Doty — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 20:50:22 -0500

Colonel, petty people will always play petty politics wherever you find them. A Marine major knows better than to allow this sort of conduct. I would imagine that a quiet personal conversation with him would resolve the problem.

Response by PFC Gladys LeBlanc made Nov 19 at 2020 12:25 AM

PFC Gladys LeBlanc — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 00:25:11 -0500

Col, sounds like your wife got off lucky. that woman doesn't sound like anyone I would want to know. there will always be a few folks who are stuck up. why they use their husband's professions as a name tag, I have no clue, but usually they have no accomplishments of their own to brag about. A woman should be appreciated for her own accomplishments and her own personality. I think your wife probably has way more going for her than that woman ever will. congrats on your lovely wife. I am sure she is much happier without that other woman as a friend.

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Nov 20 at 2020 6:38 AM

Sgt Mervyn Russell — Fri, 20 Nov 2020 06:38:54 -0500

I've called people by their rank, even in civilian life. Not trying to snow any destination between a class of people. But, if they have spent twenty or so years building their rank, I feel they have earned it. I would not go up to a person that had only been a private and call him or she by this rank, not when they are out of the service. That would be a put down.

Response by SPC EOTrees Myles made Dec 3 at 2020 8:52 PM

SPC EOTrees Myles — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 20:52:33 -0500

I think just being respectable to others period is the right thing to do, I never think about rank just the respect of others.

Response by MSG Loren Tomblin made Dec 5 at 2020 11:24 AM

MSG Loren Tomblin — Sat, 05 Dec 2020 11:24:29 -0500

I heard this one back in '61 in Germany: The CG asked that all officers wives come to the post theater. His aide asked the women to be seated according to rank. They shifted around and arranged themselves according to their husband's rank. After they finished the CG walked up on the stage and announced: "Ladies you have no rank" and left.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2020 7:57 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2020 19:57:15 -0500

Our society and culture has been dumbed down for several generations. Respect for authority, common courtesy, and decency are things of the past. The disintegration of the family, the institution of marriage, ethics and integrity, strength of character, the willingness to serve, rejected and disposable. I mourn for those I love and their future in this world. I was so lucky to live when I did.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Dec 21 at 2020 11:32 AM

CPT Carolyn Andrews — Mon, 21 Dec 2020 11:32:34 -0500

U use it with respect.
Now if the soldier was in my company, I do it as familiarity
And respect to him/her.
You do this until the soldier tell you call me C J.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Dec 25 at 2020 1:05 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 13:05:18 -0500

What have you done to earn anything? There’s lines for those in uniform who are in a hurry, and there’s lines for everyone else. First come first serve, get to the rear of the line and act like yiu have some manners. Wonder what Col Hubby would think of his wife’s antics?

Response by SPC July Macias made Dec 25 at 2020 3:29 PM

SPC July Macias — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 15:29:47 -0500

I am very thankful I never encountered this kind of behavior while on active duty.

Response by PO1 Sanford Snyder made Dec 25 at 2020 8:00 PM

PO1 Sanford Snyder — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 20:00:00 -0500

I recall one incident, I will admit that was told to me second hand. The service member who dealt with the officers wife told her "I don't care who you sleep with, get back in line". I do wish it was a true story.

Response by SSG Timothy Lanham made Dec 25 at 2020 10:30 PM

SSG Timothy Lanham — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 22:30:56 -0500

I was on gate guard on time at an aviation facility. Woman came to gate. I looked at her ID card, handed it back to her, thanked her and waved her through. "You are supposed to salute me". "No Ma'am". "I am officer such and such wife". "Yes Ma'am but he is not in vehicle with you". About a half hour later my Platoon Sergeant came to the gate. "I heard you did not salute somebody." "The only person I did not salute was a female that presented a brown ID card. To me a brown ID card holder is a dependent. and that means civilian. I was taught in Basic Training the only civilians we salute are the president and secretaries. The fact you are here does not say much about that officer".

Response by CSM Clifford Fargason made Dec 26 at 2020 8:37 AM

CSM Clifford Fargason — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 08:37:07 -0500

Our VFW Post has enlisted up through two members being one star officers. Every once in awhile someone might call another member by rank, but that usually gets squashed quickly.

Response by Cody Rauh made Jan 3 at 2021 10:25 PM

Cody Rauh — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 22:25:34 -0500

Unfortunately, military or civilian, entitlement can be found anywhere, our society has changed significantly in just 20 years. My opinion for what it is worth is the rank belongs only to the individual who earned it. Respect is provided to others regardless of rank.

Response by SGT David Spearel made Jan 5 at 2021 9:58 PM

SGT David Spearel — Tue, 05 Jan 2021 21:58:27 -0500

My father was a Colonel but no one in my family ever tried to throw his rank around. My father told me that he earned the rank and I was never to try to use his rank to influence others and I never tried. However some people responded more favorably to me when they saw my fathers rank on my ID card or when they found out my dad was a senior officer. Even when I went into the service, people treated me with kid gloves when they found out of my fathers rank thinking I would complain to him if I didn’t like something but realized I wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That’s why I went into a different branch to avoid living under the cloud of my father. Some smart Alecs in Basic overheard a conversation between me and a friend of mine who’s father was also in the military, talking about their ranks. The next day when I was returning from the Mess Hall after evening chow they were standing at the bottom of the stairs and when I walked in they snapped to attention and all saluted me and said “ Good evening Colonel Spearel!” I was pissed and replied to them never to address me in that manor. It wasn’t long before it got around the company. I’m glad I was made Squad Leader before that as not to hear people crying that that was the reason I was made one. I wanted it on my own merits. The DI on duty heard it and called me on the carpet about it and asked me what that was about. I stood out from most of the rest because I had the discipline already instilled in me which made it so much easier for me. I even had a shot at going to the WP prep school but didn’t get high enough score on the entrance test to be accepted. Missed by one question or two. But have no regrets.

Response by PO1 Tara Dancy made Jan 10 at 2021 2:17 AM

PO1 Tara Dancy — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 02:17:27 -0500

Speaking of crazy wannabe military without joining the military spouses. I was Pharmacy LPO at Camp Pendleton and we were closed on a Sunday, but open for the ER only. Well this spouse comes in arguing with my technician demanding that we fill her medication. I came over to the window as soon as I heard all of the commotion. I told the patient that we are closed and to come back on Monday during business hours. Oooooh nooooo, this woman started threatening me that her husband was going to hear about this and heads will roll. He is going to get me fired...blah...blah...blah as she storms away from the window. About 10 minutes later, her husband comes up to the window and was about to chew me out but stopped himself. He noticed that I was an E6 and I noticed that he was an E4. Hmmmm, what a dilemma. He told me that he was so sorry for his wife's behavior and that it won't happen again. I told him please make sure it don't. Poor guy felt so embarrassed.

Response by COL T. C. Smith made Jan 10 at 2021 1:43 PM

COL T. C. Smith — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:43:05 -0500

Wives have no rank. End of story. Most understand and appreciate that Obviously a selected few haven't received (or understood) that.

Response by PO2 Ruben Garcia made Jan 10 at 2021 2:22 PM

PO2 Ruben Garcia — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:22:27 -0500

I think it's B.S. The fact is, you served your country HONORABLY. That is what matters. Rank is no longer a consideration. Sounds like the woman your talking has other issues. Like self esteem issues. Also sounds VERY discriminatory which is something the Wife of an Officer should NOT be doing. I would mention it to her if she or someone else brought it up to Me again.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Jan 11 at 2021 1:00 AM

COL Carl Jensen — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:00:35 -0500

I'm lay back with it. When they say something like you were an officer? I remind them the rank was an achievement, and there was nothing holding anyone back if they wanted to be one. My retired friends and I kid each other with it but we don't take it seriously. Over the years I told people in my units, that I too was an E-1 and as an E-4 I changed course. One of my closest friends from OCS, got out as 1st Lt.. I still address him as Lt., and tell him things like, listen to what I say, its an order. Generals, Colonels, Majors, Capts., Lts. are hey Joe, Bill, George, Jim etc now along with former NCOs. The wives of many years know us all by our first names, I hear things like, " I'm Joe from Athens GA's wife. Go to an affair in uniform its "Hey Joe". If you meet someone there who is new to the group, we'll use rank to ID. See Col. Bill over there, he's from NYC. I see all us old guys as one color green with faded ranks. As General Mac Arthur said; "Old soldiers never die, they just smell? that way?". (And the wives put up with it.)

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Jan 11 at 2021 1:51 PM

CPO Jack De Merit — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:51:13 -0500

There is an extremely possible resentment because he really did not deserve the promotion to begin with. I have noticed in the 28.9 years I served, that a great many people are promoted just to keep them in the service and not because they earned it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2021 1:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 13:25:38 -0500

Any Officer/ NCO who directly acts out due to the influence of their spouse, and negatively impacts a lower ranking service member deserves the treatment they will receive from IG .

Response by Cpl Stephen hawk Jr made Jan 20 at 2021 11:05 AM

Cpl Stephen hawk Jr — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:05:55 -0500

Sorry Mrs so and so your a civilian. Your husband's rank don't mean squat for standing in a line and I've told them that with the major standing right next to them. Spouses tried to pull that crap in the px on Pendleton all the time my fellow marries and i usually told them to go pound sand. Navy wives seemed to try it a lot more than the other branches. Maybe they got away with it more at Miramar. Just my observation.

Response by Col Tri Trinh made Jan 20 at 2021 11:18 AM

Col Tri Trinh — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:18:30 -0500

I am a retired Colonel. I am Mr Tri Trinh again.
I didn’t really care to identify my former rank. It’s a nice to know.
My wife has never leveraged my rank or cared to throw my rank around. I don’t get why people use their spouse’s rank. It’s silly to me.

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2021 5:40 AM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 05:40:49 -0500

Dependants who try to lord the rank of their spouse over others are pathetic. But, it happens a lot. I think many military spouses feel intimidated by the fact that their significant other is wearing a uniform and is part of something greater and try to compensate by latching their personal identity to their partners rank. It is a sign of insecurity and a weak mind. I’ve been married in the military for about 20 of my 25 years and my wife has wisely avoided all of the petty nonsense that goes on between spouses. That said, to continue to latch onto to your spouses rank even after retirement is beyond the pale. It shows that this person is a first class moron. Your wife is better off not having any contact with someone like that.

Response by CPT Jerry Lucas made Jan 24 at 2021 4:01 AM

CPT Jerry Lucas — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 04:01:10 -0500

I retired from the Army Reserve in 1996, after 21 years, active and reserve, commissioned officer and enlisted, with two deployments as an officer. Most of my time in service was in small units, 18 people or fewer. No matter where I was sent in the Army, I always ran into someone I was assigned with from a previous unit. I spent over half my career in one unit. We were tight, real tight. It didn't matter if you were the commander or the FNG just out of AIT, you were part of the team. When the team was away from the headshed, we were on a first name basis. If the brass was around, we would use rank and last name. We always accomplished our mission, never failed an IG inspection, or any other inspection. The officers and senior NCO's always made sure our people were ready, moral high, and we all took care of each other. Whether it was a REFORGER exercise or an actual deployment we were always 100%. I still see some of these people today, after being retired over 24 years, attended their funerals and I'm sure some of them will attend my funeral when the day comes. I may not remember their respective ranks but I will always remember them, our camraderie and our genuine love for each other. I always told my people that I entered the Army as an E-1, and if I left as an E-1, I broke even. I never cared about rank, mine or theirs, but I would take care of them to the best of my abilites because I knew they were doing the same for me. And as soon as this COVID crap is over, I'm going to go have a drink or three with two of my buddies, a master sergeant and a Lt. Col.

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made Jan 24 at 2021 7:57 AM

CPT Daniel Cox — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 07:57:23 -0500

Go to https://www.reddit.com/r/justdependathings/ to see all of the spousal rank and other dependent-based things that occur.

r/justdependathings

r/justdependathings: just dependa things[What is a dependa?](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dependapotamus)

Response by PO2 Joseph Chantiny made Jan 24 at 2021 1:07 PM

PO2 Joseph Chantiny — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 13:07:29 -0500

The same thing happens in life-elitism is the issue not rank.

Response by SFC Chuck Martinez made Jan 24 at 2021 3:06 PM

SFC Chuck Martinez — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:06:27 -0500

Pride due to the rank they have achieved while in service!! But the reality of things, going from a retried military to a civilian status, some may still wear their rank on their selves. I have many former military friends, enlisted and officers and rank is never mentioned or is an issue. Some come and visit me at my house or I go to theirs. Most are from the Vietnam war in which we served together. My good friend, Major Daniel Rogers and Nam brother passed in 2019 from Vietnam related issues. We knew each other for over 55 years. Never have we used our former rank to address each other it was always on the same name basis. Once you shed your uniform, you become a Mr., Mrs., or Miss.

Response by SGT Harald Hendrichsen made Jan 24 at 2021 3:14 PM

SGT Harald Hendrichsen — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:14:27 -0500

My comment isn't about playing the rank card, but after six years active duty, I think it's just ingrained in me to acknowledge rank even as a civilian.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 24 at 2021 7:48 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:48:49 -0500

I wonder if it isn't a matter of conditioning?? I agree with you that once we are a veteran, we should have some respect for what others have done in their careers, but we are all veterans. I think the importance of what we have in common should be of greater importance than the titles and positions that we earned. I mean is a retired major with 20 years any less or more important than a retired major of 30 years?? The fact that a veteran of however many years and whatever rank and whatever service stood up and did what others were too afraid to do, unwilling to do, or were incapable of doing speaks more to me than what was accomplished in terms of personal accolades.

Response by Wayne Soares made Jan 24 at 2021 9:17 PM

Wayne Soares — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 21:17:01 -0500

Thanks for the question Colonel Burroughs

Response by SGT Michael Hearn made Jan 25 at 2021 5:15 AM

SGT Michael Hearn — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 05:15:20 -0500

I wish I could have been an officer especially when it came to payday. I had a 2nd Lt. In Germany he was so stupid he should have been paying the Army/LOL

Response by GySgt Thomas Vick made Jan 25 at 2021 9:31 AM

GySgt Thomas Vick — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 09:31:04 -0500

My own opinion is that you earned and you deserve the respect for all the hard work, and commitment that you put into it. Retired or Active.

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Jan 26 at 2021 1:51 AM

SMSgt Bob W. — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:51:04 -0500

It goes back to your childhood. If you were told Mrs. Jones lives next door, you call her Mrs. Jones. If "Bill" is the butcher, you call him "Bill". Major Smith is your boss, you know him/her as "Major Smith". If "Jim" is the Squad Leader, you know him as Jim, not Sgt. Miller. Now, the "Rank Card"--too many Officer's wives are treated as "Queens" when the officer is on active duty. Once the active duty member retires, some wives still expect the same treatment [proof Check out the Exchange or Commissary reserve parking spots and see who parks there]. The retired member and spouse should be treated with respect and afforded the courtesy afforded to any retired member--no more, no less. Me, I don't use anything but my name. I worked for four years at a job before anyone realized I was retired military [I had to show my driver's licenses for some reason and the co-worker so my ID card]. I had a co-workers who thought he was still in the military 15 years after he retired--he'd bark orders to people who ignored him [usually].

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2021 7:23 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 07:23:24 -0500

Military Spouses have created a huge challenge in their assuming roles of influence. Their aggressive agendas have caused women veterans significant challenges on many levels and interferes with the eligible benefits from having made an oath - they are making a serious impact by adversely affects women of the armed forces. I am both a former spouse and a woman veteran.

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made Jan 26 at 2021 10:27 AM

Sgt Heriberto Salinas — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:27:27 -0500

Immaturity, arrogance, self importance...

Response by CPL Sally Wittbrod made Jan 26 at 2021 12:40 PM

CPL Sally Wittbrod — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:40:13 -0500

My brother is a retired Sgt. I was a cadet and my husband was Sp5. My brother prefers strangers address him as Sarge, not sir. I am bewildered when I am referred to as Cpl. I don't mind Miss, Ma'am, Sir or Mr. My husband also ignores rank.

Response by SFC Curtis Halford (Ret) made Jan 26 at 2021 6:36 PM

SFC Curtis Halford (Ret) — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 18:36:37 -0500

Other than establishing a common bond of experience (enlisted vs officer or warrant officer for instance) or as a matter of accepted OFFICIAL protocol it is counterproductive outside of veteran/military associations or settings. It should not be established as a norm within those same associations or organizations except as necessary to meet the goals and objectives of that organization. The "commander" of a VFW post or American Legion post might be a guy that served as a buck sergeant in Vietnam. It is irrelevant if someone else in the post was once a major or a sergeant major in the matter of the roles and functions of the organization (other than the fact that those members who attained higher enlisted or officer ranks are often a wealth of information and a valued resource.) They retain no rank or authority, but they should be valued for their experience and contributions.

With retirees, the rank is retained and it has limited importance in limited settings. Once you ETS or retire the idea is to transition to civilian life (albeit as a veteran or retiree) which means your mission is to assimilate back into society. Some of us are better at assimilating than others, but running around referring to yourself by rank you no longer hold, trying to wield authority you no longer have, is a recipe for personal and professional stress and even disaster. Using rank to influence people within the military is the worst form of leadership, and it is even less useful when interacting in civilian life. I may refer to myself as a crusty old retired Army sergeant, but that's more self-deprecating than anything else. People who insist on using rank as some kind of discriminator once they leave the service are stuck in the past. A resume or CV is great, but what are you doing now? Who are you now? Be that person. Set those goals. Acknowledge past accomplishments, but move forward and continue to "improve your foxhole". Just my two cents.

Response by LTC Betty Holm made Jan 31 at 2021 12:23 AM

LTC Betty Holm — Sun, 31 Jan 2021 00:23:32 -0500

I agree when we get out we are citizens. I always tell someone when they call me Ma'am that I gave up Ma'am in 2012 when I retired.

Response by SGT Ed Walden made Feb 11 at 2021 3:14 PM

SGT Ed Walden — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:14:17 -0500

I always had issues with this concept.

I still live in a military town amd once afyer I ETS'd I had a woman in Walmart, of all places, tell me I should move because she was CSM so and So's wife.

I simply asked her when she enlisted, informed her that I was no longer active duty and that I didn't appreciate her attitude.

I was polite, but short with her.
I have several friends who are also veterans of varying rank, a few who outranked me and theyve never treated me differently.

Response by GySgt Lloyd Beckford made Feb 15 at 2021 12:30 PM

GySgt Lloyd Beckford — Mon, 15 Feb 2021 12:30:57 -0500

I believe that it is the service member fault why the spouse behalf that way. My wife knows not to use the rank card because I told her that is wrong and disrespectful. So as a Marine I have done my job and teach my wife so she knows. I believe some military members teach their spouse to use the rank card so they do. If we as military service members don't teach our spouse right from wrong then how can they know. We served, we earned the rank therefore it is our responsibility to teach our spouse to conduct themselves according to what's expected of us, because they are representing us wherever they go. Semper Fi.

Response by Maj Diane Varni made Feb 18 at 2021 8:11 PM

Maj Diane Varni — Thu, 18 Feb 2021 20:11:44 -0500

First time I went to an OWC lunch they announced ladies to sit by rank....I looked around and said to my group not quietly "do I have to go to head table? Im the onky active duty in the room....my LtColsWife laughed because she thought thevWing Commanders Wife was pretentious too...

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2021 10:37 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2021 22:37:52 -0500

It is so important to our mental health that we maintain our personal identity while we serve. We, are not the rank that we hold! This is especially true for our spouses.Treat others fairly.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Feb 21 at 2021 11:29 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 23:29:24 -0500

Some people do that as a sense of entitlement, others because they've been institutionalized.

Response by MSG David Densmore made Feb 26 at 2021 4:23 PM

MSG David Densmore — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:23:38 -0500

I know it happens, but I never did understand it. I know my wife was never guilty, she's not outgoing enough. She's the one that would be knitting in the corner. She has told me however, about the crappy and hurtful ways that some of the wives treated a "lesser" or one that wasn't pretty enough. I just find it disgusting.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Mar 3 at 2021 12:31 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Wed, 03 Mar 2021 12:31:42 -0500

I get this all the time. People think if you are a specialist you can't know what you are talking about.

I think many people, especially NCO's, in the military either peaked in high school, or peak in the military, and then fail at being a civilian so they try to relieve those 'glory days'.

Plenty of stuff you can do, as a civilian, to keep growing.

Also women tend to be catty like that.

Response by SFC Will Hallstead made Mar 4 at 2021 5:56 PM

SFC Will Hallstead — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 17:56:04 -0500

Wives kill me trying to say they are the rank there husbands wear. No ma’am you are a civilian!!!

Response by MSG Jesse Molinar made Mar 14 at 2021 10:45 PM

MSG Jesse Molinar — Sun, 14 Mar 2021 22:45:13 -0400

After I retired, I made it a point to gain employment in the civilian sector that was not remotely linked to DOD. While difficult, it was a great experience and helped me to "realize" I was no longer in uniform. I now work as a DOD contractor, but that experience greatly helped me in my transition. My interaction with service members and civilians was greatly enhanced with learning I am now Mr. Molinar.

Response by SFC Charles Hough made Mar 18 at 2021 7:24 PM

SFC Charles Hough — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:24:52 -0400

Well I still either address others by rank or last name even though I am retired, kinda natural and I feel even retired that person earned the title. As for rank card, I have had issues when active that I dealt with and if I faced them retired it would be the same answer.... the spouse has earned no title except Mrs or Mr. I have never taken orders by anyone’s spouse and refuse to let them believe they can act as if they earned it.

Response by SGT Sheldon Skaggs made Mar 20 at 2021 10:11 AM

SGT Sheldon Skaggs — Sat, 20 Mar 2021 10:11:53 -0400

My opinion, granted I've been out for 20 years. Hit ignore and go on about my business. Treat the person with respect, because I wouldn't like someone treating my wife badly even if she's showing her 4th point of contact. Because in all reality, it's not fair, but life is all to often not fair.

Response by SPC Ted Maltzie made Mar 21 at 2021 9:46 PM

SPC Ted Maltzie — Sun, 21 Mar 2021 21:46:53 -0400

When you're part of the E-4 mafia you're the coolest guy on the flight line. Just sayin.
Good day , sir. Don't break my aircraft. Have a nice flight.

Response by SFC Dwight Beaver made Mar 21 at 2021 11:27 PM

SFC Dwight Beaver — Sun, 21 Mar 2021 23:27:52 -0400

After retirement its mr it ma'am. Not col so and so or etc. Those privileges help you to put your pants on one leg at a time just like we do

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Apr 8 at 2021 8:20 PM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 20:20:19 -0400

I was stationed at Camp Lemonier in Djibouti in 2005 to 2005 before going to Darfur to work with the African Union. During a briefing one of the African officer mentioned that the AU had the highest ranking US Army officer in Darfur working with them. I had to ask to whom he was referring to as I never thought of myself by my rank. To me I was simply Lee Manning sent there to do a job.

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made Apr 12 at 2021 1:52 AM

SSG Bob Teachout — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 01:52:09 -0400

I prefer to refer to retired individuals by rank - as they have earned that.
Just as Mr. Carter, Mr Bush, Mr. Obama - often are simply refereed to as President Bush -ect - even though they do not currently hold that office.
Of course rank can go to someones head - so there can be extremes on both hands.

Response by 1stSgt Ed White made Apr 21 at 2021 7:41 PM

1stSgt Ed White — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:41:09 -0400

I am with you 100%. I too am confused by it. I am proud of what I achieved while I was in, but just as proud of what I have accomplished since retiring.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Apr 23 at 2021 9:30 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Fri, 23 Apr 2021 21:30:02 -0400

So when did a dependent get a rank. It is amazing how arrogant asses assume their rank is the same as their spouses. I was told very early in my life bye my dad, if you use my rank to get ahead, this rank will kick your ass to private nothing when I completed basic in 1969 my DI asked me why I never said my dad was a Col? I replied why would I, I am in basic learning to be what he is. Got my first shot of Jack Daniels free that night. And Sgt Cobb got his DI hat.

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Apr 24 at 2021 12:50 PM

PO1 Mike Wallace — Sat, 24 Apr 2021 12:50:46 -0400

Good question and one that may never be answered. After the Navy I went to work for the FAA and worked my way up pretty far in the grade structure. As the Assistant Air Traffic manager I did all the liaison with military bases that were within our airspace. About half the time when I had to talk with a new person they wanted to know what my grade was which I found pretty stupid. I didn't give orders I did however remind folks they had to follow the rules and tried to help them understand the problems. To be honest I never had that problem with even the most senior enlisted people only some commissioned officers.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2021 3:59 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Apr 2021 03:59:26 -0400

I am a Military Brat. We use to just kick an OB's alpha and there was no problem. On the rare occasion we could no kick his privileged alpha one on one we figured he earned his privileged attitude.

Response by CDR George Melnychenko made May 7 at 2021 10:39 AM

CDR George Melnychenko — Fri, 07 May 2021 10:39:33 -0400

Many years ago my wife and I were in the NS Mayport uniform shop. I was a new LCDR and she was still an Ensign. She gave me a ration of ... because my khakis were rumpled. The CAPT behind her told her that was the best dressing down of a senior officer by an ensign that he ever winessed. Of course we had already been married over 7 years and she had been a blind date while I was still a Midshipman at USNA. Moral: we cannot take ourselves too seriously.

Response by TSgt David Olson made May 19 at 2021 11:09 AM

TSgt David Olson — Wed, 19 May 2021 11:09:27 -0400

Years ago there was a saying, “officers ladies, enlisted men’s wives”. Given today’s changing social scene, I don’t know how relevant that is. Before my retirement, in 2003, I would advise my subordinates that wives of 0-4’s and above might try the “my husband’s is 0-4, 0-5, 0-6” to try and impress them, that they deserved special consideration, and treatment because of that fact. Write the traffic ticket, while being courteous, she can explain to both her husband and the federal magistrate in court her behavior.

Response by LCDR Steve Brown made May 20 at 2021 12:04 AM

LCDR Steve Brown — Thu, 20 May 2021 00:04:14 -0400

Hard to believe that kind of crap still goes on, especially after one take off the uniform. It happened when my dad was active (retired in '76), but now that I'm retired, it borders on the ridiculous. Everyone who served had a role to play and they played it. Move on.

Response by Nancy Likely Shipes made May 20 at 2021 7:32 AM

Nancy Likely Shipes — Thu, 20 May 2021 07:32:11 -0400

By that logic, where should Gold Star spouses go in that hypothetical line? Do you even know we exist?

Response by MGySgt Charles Restifo made May 22 at 2021 11:00 PM

MGySgt Charles Restifo — Sat, 22 May 2021 23:00:12 -0400

Service is a privilege and I will quote a MaJGen at a messiah several years ago, "all spouces please stand, look to your right and left, these spouces hold the distinction of serving. They are the hall mark of military ethoes. They deserve the respect and honor 9f the grade to with appointed. Honor them as they desirve". This has found a place in my mind and heart for decades. You decide!

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made May 24 at 2021 1:23 PM

CW3 Charles Morris — Mon, 24 May 2021 13:23:15 -0400

Wives don't have rank, as such, the axion "rank has it's privilege's" does not apply.

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Jun 1 at 2021 8:36 AM

GySgt Jack Wallace — Tue, 01 Jun 2021 08:36:26 -0400

If an old vet like me and others wears part on his uniform, give them a little pat on the back, and say thank you for you service. Now however. Everyones is making commits about someone using rank for special privileges. For me I did not hear this very much in the corp. but as a police officer I heard this just about every traffic stop that I made. They would say do u know who my husband is or I live in a high in neighborhood. I know the mayor/police chief, or any other city official . Then when you write them a citation of course some calls and wants to say you were rude to them.Some people just thinks because of money, spouses rank or they know someone they get a special deal* For me I always say you give respect, you get respect.* thank you, be safe.

Response by MAJ Edgar S OteroMuniz made Jun 3 at 2021 11:41 AM

MAJ Edgar S OteroMuniz — Thu, 03 Jun 2021 11:41:42 -0400

In my book you are on point. I have seen that in the past and I totally disapprove.

Response by CPL Bill Siggelow made Jun 6 at 2021 1:07 PM

CPL Bill Siggelow — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 13:07:39 -0400

Personally, I refer to someone by their rank out of respect. If they tell me to knock it off, then I do. I used to work with a retired 1SG. I always called him Top. One day, he said "While I appreciate you calling me Top, could you just call me Mark?" I of course jokingly replied "Sure thing First Sergeant!"

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jun 7 at 2021 10:10 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 22:10:49 -0400

Your wife should tell her to blow smoke if kindness doesn't work

Response by Lt Col Gary Uzzel made Jun 13 at 2021 5:18 PM

Lt Col Gary Uzzel — Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:18:50 -0400

I started out as an Airman Basic and retired as a LtCol. I have NEVER insisted that anyone call me by my rank; always figured that military members are adults and know what is accepted and what is not. If a junior member called me by my first name, I never made much of an issue out of it. With that, I can say the Cadre at OTS, AFA and ROTC did their job and instilled in the cadets the need for respect of rank; that includes addressing seniors appropriately.

As for spouses taking on the rank of their husbands/wives, I would expect anyone to call them out and let them know all of them are military dependants; they have no rank.

Response by SPC Eileen Keller made Jun 18 at 2021 6:16 PM

SPC Eileen Keller — Fri, 18 Jun 2021 18:16:38 -0400

Clueless as to why, but I am disappointed it happens.

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Jul 16 at 2021 4:29 PM

MAJ Steve Warnerski — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:29:53 -0400

Why do some act like that?
A: Insecurity; feeling of self-importance; ignorance; failure of parents to teach them to treat people in a correct fashion; result of spouse's self-importance, etc.

In 21 years on active duty, and 25 years on the retired list, I don't recall anyone acting that way. And am happy that the Blue / Red car decals are a thing of the past...saluting a CAR because an officer owned it was sorta dumb. Though when my then-16 year old son, with long hair & a surfboard on the roof, was going thru the entry gate, the MP saluted him. Twas obvious HE wasn't ME...but he returned the MPs salute. Not sure where he got his occasional streak of acting goofy in public from....

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Jul 26 at 2021 6:29 PM

SPC Clayton Ellzey — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:29:09 -0400

I still call my old Col Sir when I speak to him and my Sergent Major by his rank and I was his supervisor in our civilian job .
Not to stroke their ego but they earned that respect.

Response by LTC David Brown made Jul 27 at 2021 8:24 PM

LTC David Brown — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 20:24:12 -0400

I respect all ranks. On a place like Rally Point we have people who left the military as a corprol but now have PHDs etc. I state a person’s rank to be respectful.

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Aug 1 at 2021 4:57 PM

SFC Larry Jones — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 16:57:31 -0400

I have been retired for 26 years. I hung my rank up a long time ago. Hi, I'm Larry.

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made Aug 6 at 2021 12:33 AM

SSG Bob Teachout — Fri, 06 Aug 2021 00:33:13 -0400

I do refer to rank at times - as a sign of respect.

Response by 1LT Neal Schwartz made Sep 4 at 2021 4:26 PM

1LT Neal Schwartz — Sat, 04 Sep 2021 16:26:12 -0400

My wife has always outranked me. Back in the day, in Vietnam, rank had it's privileges too. When we (8" Artillery) moved, the enlisted cadre did the planning and execution of getting us secure, while the officers helped by filling sandbags. We all appreciated those sandbags especially after dark.

Response by SGT Leonard Frank made Sep 5 at 2021 9:17 AM

SGT Leonard Frank — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 09:17:25 -0400

I made it to SGT in the Army in civian life I was a manager of a large branch of rental trailers, my service dept was run by a top rank NCO as was his assistant, but in their eyes this is not the navy, and I def out ranked them, I did not flaunt it and it never came up. Welcome to the not the military Mr Jones!

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Sep 5 at 2021 11:45 AM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 11:45:05 -0400

I never understood why some military spouses never understood that they are not their spouse. Back in the mid 1970's I was assigned to Berlin. The CG's wife wanted to leave her underage son, her was 12 I think, alone in the bowling alley. The specialist on duty told her that she could not leave him without an adult. She told the specialist who she was and expected him to watch her son. When he refused she got extremely mad and said that her husband would punish him. The specialist called his superior and the woman and her son were told to leave. The CG did not punish the young specialist and praised him for his integrity. The there are many stories about women wearing their husband's rank, sorry ladies but there were not many females in the Army back then for a male spouse to wear her rank. I have never understood why spouses just don't get it.

Response by PO3 Pamala McBrayer made Sep 17 at 2021 3:55 PM

PO3 Pamala McBrayer — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:55:30 -0400

I say that a false sense of self-importance leads to tyrannical behavior. Those are the people that like to label and box everything and everyone, rather than seeing beyond position ( which may change) to that person. There really is no excuse for rude or ugly, and it is especially very unbecoming from leaders (and their partners), who should set a good example.

The future Queen of England became a transportation mechanic during WW2. She got dirty, she served, and got hot and messy and waited in lines, I am sure. She did not have to, but she chose to, out of sincere desire to serve her country as women could (then). The rank thing gets pulled at the VA by these women too. A woman dared to tell me to get out of line stating, “ this line is for veterans only”…my husband and I were both active duty, war time veterans, having left active duty the previous year. My husband was standing there in disbelief…and I just put my hand over his. I was silent, but looked at her squarely, and remained as I was. She got mad, and went and complained to a staff member and a nurse. I just smiled. When I got up to the counter, I asked the person checking me in, “Sooooo, should I tell her, or would you like to?”
They pulled her aside and told her that both my husband and I were recent veterans who supported the Gulf War and Operation Desert Storm, and that we both had clinic appointments…ahead of her husband’s appointment time. My God, that women got pale! Thankfully, her husband didn’t hear her. I think he would have been upset! That nurse told me later that the lady was flustered and really honestly never considered that women might have served and be receiving care at a VA hospital!

So, it sometimes isn’t just about the rank…sometimes it is a family member daring to disrespect servicemembers, too.

Response by MSgt George Murray made Sep 19 at 2021 5:21 PM

MSgt George Murray — Sun, 19 Sep 2021 17:21:59 -0400

I don't do that because we all served together, even by rank we had a job to do and to be honest, I think that in the civilian world it's worse. I've been around a lot of dignitaries and I never met a bad one. When I drove for Brig. Gen Jimmy Steward and we were in the car he said, "Sgt Murray if we are by ourselves and out of ear shot you can call me Jimmy and can I call you George. It worked for me. By the way, the biggest dignitary I was around was President Ford.

Response by LCpl Robert Michaud made Sep 20 at 2021 6:11 PM

LCpl Robert Michaud — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 18:11:10 -0400

Some wives believe they hold the tank and that they are entitled. Which they do NOT hold the rank. I had one in the Philippines that tried to get a salute from the Marines at the gate saying she is entitled to it. She made the mistake of complaining to her husband (a major) who arrived at the gate to complain to my MOD. I informed him of the whole story and the possible consequences. He quickly turned her around and told her to pack her bags that her and the children she was putting in jeopardy where going back to the states. Some think they have privileges they dont have.

Response by TSgt Don Dollinger made Sep 24 at 2021 1:53 AM

TSgt Don Dollinger — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 01:53:52 -0400

The times I refer to my retired friends by rank it is as a sign of respect for what they accomplished and/or camaraderie. Hey Sarge, Chief, Major, etc. Especially friends you never knew outside the military. As far as the Major's wife that is a legend in her own mind. Do you really want a toxic personality like that in your circle of friends. No one in my circle ever wore their spouse's rank and were just proud to be a military spouse.

Response by SGT Justin Singleton made Oct 28 at 2021 8:35 AM

SGT Justin Singleton — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 08:35:39 -0400

Unfortunately, I think that it is a part of the human condition to compare ourselves to others. What is one of the first questions men ask each other when they meet? It is this: “so, what do you do for a living?” I personally think that it is a way of sizing up the competition—a carryover from our ancient ancestors. Rank is the same way.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2021 8:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 08:46:59 -0400

Retirees/DVs do it to themselves. Especially DVs, senior ranking Enlisted/Officers. They act extremely entitled, like the world owes them for their service.

Response by LCDR Ernest Heassler made Oct 28 at 2021 10:49 AM

LCDR Ernest Heassler — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:49:36 -0400

In my experience, head of the line privileges are reserved for active duty personnel. There is no such rank as Mrs. Colonel or Mrs. Admiral and women who claim such should be firmly and politely told to take their place in the end of the line.

Response by LT Carl Martin made Oct 28 at 2021 4:58 PM

LT Carl Martin — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:58:00 -0400

I couldn't agree more. I am a retired Navy Limited Duty Officer (O-3E). I always show respect to members in or out of uniform. IMHO, the rank card has no place for use today. We should all be better examples for our junior people to follow.

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Oct 28 at 2021 6:47 PM

SPC Lyle Montgomery — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 18:47:09 -0400

I am a disabled vet and can use the PX and comisary priveleges. I live within 20 miles of an air force base. I have used the comisary a few times. I hate it. I have never seen such rude women and some men since I was stationed at Fort Hood texas years ago. It was the same then. I was a lowly SP 4 and was treated poorly. I would rather go to a Wallmart and deal with the rudeness of some people there than the base comisary. I guess that thngs haven't changed much 50 years later.

Response by MAJ Phil Bundy made Oct 28 at 2021 7:59 PM

MAJ Phil Bundy — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 19:59:22 -0400

It does not matter what the spouse had. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. Get to the back of the line.

Response by MAJ JohnK Wright, V made Oct 28 at 2021 8:46 PM

MAJ JohnK Wright, V — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 20:46:27 -0400

Totally agree. I retired as an Army Major and I think my wife was treated badly in a few assignments. I was stationed for 3 years at the Army War College. Everyone on my street outranked me. Not invited to certain things because I was just a Major.

When I was a Company Commander on Fort Belvoir, we had a SFC move in next door in our duplex. Our son's played together. Still treated him/his wife like he was anyone else.

When I was stationed in Germany, my wife overheard enlisted wives complaining that the reason the Commissary was out of certain things was because of the Officer Wives purchasing everything.

My Dad is a Retired Air Force Master Sergeant. I grew up on bases and had friends whose parents were both Officers and Enlisted. My Dad got along with everyone.

I think it is how you were raised and brought up.

I can see how someone might hold a grudge against someone's rank if there was some negative connotation such as bad fitness report, letter of reprimand, passed over for promotion, etc. and blame a higher rank.

We are all Veterans...

Response by SGT Mike Serovey made Oct 28 at 2021 9:32 PM

SGT Mike Serovey — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 21:32:44 -0400

When I was stationed in Germany, I worked in a troop medical clinic. A woman was trying to check into a clinic that I did not work in. I saw her ID card and realized that she was the colonel's wife. I explained to the civilian clerk who this woman was. The clerk did not care.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Oct 29 at 2021 2:50 PM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 14:50:54 -0400

When I retired, I was surprised that many unknown active duty, whom I previously outranked, took delight in assuming they now outranked me. I was surprised but not really upset because, after all, the number of people who outrank an LCDR is pretty much infinite. I consider it a complement when someone who achieved a higher rank than me treats as an equal upon retirement. If they don't, oh well, I still get that retirement check! My wife never understood wives pulling rank, but then, she achieved much in her own right. I often introduce myself as "Peggy's husband", just to get a bit of respect! :)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2021 4:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 16:04:46 -0400

Civilians spouses playing the “rank” card is pretty ridiculous to be blunt. I personally saw that behavior a number of times while on active duty. Some spouses really need to lead that simply because their spouse is such & such rank that they themselves aren’t afforded special treatment. I mean the civilian spouse isn’t such & such rank, even their AD spouses probably wouldn’t be doing stuff like cutting lines themselves.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Oct 29 at 2021 4:39 PM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 16:39:42 -0400

Mikel, mdf, rank does have it's privileges in service, but we are all the same post retirement. Hence, playing the rank card after retirement is with prejudices in my view. Although I do it here on RallyPoint, I do it out of respect and Honor for the sacrifices we each made in the service of our Country. My respect and Honor isn't differentiated by Branch of Service; I even give Maj Marty Hogan the respect and Honor after his promotion - treatment of all with equity and inclusion yields success in my book.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Oct 29 at 2021 5:41 PM

COL Victor Hagan — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 17:41:24 -0400

In all my 30 years of service, I don't ever real seeing this happen. I have seen spouse park in senior leader parking spots. But that's about it.

Response by Sgt Earl Neconie made Oct 30 at 2021 2:24 PM

Sgt Earl Neconie — Sat, 30 Oct 2021 14:24:10 -0400

I’ve instructed my Director of The War Department (aka: my WIFE) to yell at the top of her lungs: “Marine walking, make a hole, make it wide!!!” That’s all I gotta say about that…~ Sgt Forrest Gump

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Oct 31 at 2021 4:48 PM

1SG Michael Farrell — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 16:48:01 -0400

It's one of the by-products of anachronistic and silly "traditions" that goes back to the frontier forts and so on. I seem to recall something from DA or some almost equivalent supreme being HQ basically telling us all to knock that stuff of. and, I think we're better for it. Being married to a soldier is stressful enough for families; playing those rank games just adds levels of stress where they are not needed. Reading that took me back to the March of Honor or whatever it was called in Fort Apache. Seemed about as relevant then as now, but the ladies of the regiment had a pecking order similar by husband's rank, and they earned their respect and status by caring for the soldiers and their families to an extent far greater than the Family Support Groups. I suspect the "saluting cars' thing that I always thought was stupid even as I was doing it along with spousal right to pull the husband's rank goes back to that era.

Response by SSG Timothy Lanham made Nov 7 at 2021 11:32 PM

SSG Timothy Lanham — Sun, 07 Nov 2021 23:32:48 -0500

Happened to me twice. I was gate guard at Simmons Army Airfield Ft Bragg. Woman came to gate handed me her ID card. I looked at it, handed it back to her, thanked her and waved her through. "You are supposed to salute me". "No Ma'am". "I am officer such and such wife". "Yes Ma'am but he is not in vehicle with you". 1/2 hour later my Plt Sgt showed up. "I heard you did not salute somebody". "Only person I did not salute was female that handed me a brown ID card. That means dependent. That means civilian. When I was in basic I was told the only civilian I am supposed to salute is the president. The fact that you are here does not say much about the officer.
The other time I was in the Commissary and in line behind a couple women talking while waiting to check out. Another woman came up and started to go to front of line. The woman in front of me asked her where she was going. "I am Major ........ wife and I get to go to front of line". "I am glad to meet you. I am LTG ..... Wife so perhaps you should get behind this gentleman here."
My wife volunteered to be FSG leader because CO was not married and 1Sg wife was not real sure of herself. She had to interact with the other wives. The women thought they were going to bully her because she was a lower NCO wife. My wife put them in their place real quick. "My husband does not have a lot of rank but I have been in the military my whole life. I do not need to deal with you. I can handle my company myself and I do not need the Battalion. All of you have the same title I do. Dependent".

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Nov 20 at 2021 8:21 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:21:34 -0500

I get this a lot on RP.

People seem to think two things:

1. as a specialist i can not know as much as they do, or more. This happened a lot on active duty too.
2. As a specialist I have somehow failed in my career. But I only have 10 years in and i have broken time and no PLDC (BLC).

I fell this happens because most people peak in the military and when they retire they end up in a dead end job, unless they milk the system and end up as a government contractor sucking off the giant welfare military industrial complex.

See that is the difference between a National Guard soldier and and active duty one. I made a career in the civilian world where on has to perform, i did not spend 30 years on welfare.

We are not supposed to have a free standing full time military, the states are supposed to hold that power that is why the second amendment says:

A well regulated militia (i.e. the national guard).

It is also why Title 10 defines the unorganized militia as every able bodied male between 17 and 45.

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Nov 22 at 2021 1:58 AM

Lt Col Warren Domke — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 01:58:15 -0500

While I take pride in my service and my retired rank I almost never wear it in civilian clothes and I don't expect to be treated any differently than any other retiree or veteran. If I know someone is a retired general office I usually show respect to the person (with one or two individual exceptions) but that's my choice. I also show respect to most senior NCOs, and--again--that's my choice. And most of these officers and NCOs do not demand special treatment. My wife has never put us in that position and I would have words with her if she did. I am proud to have served. That takes precedence over rank.

Response by Sgt Michael Valgos made Nov 27 at 2021 12:29 AM

Sgt Michael Valgos — Sat, 27 Nov 2021 00:29:28 -0500

For me it is out of the respect I had and still have for them I was always use to saying Mgysgt or top and He answered the phone a while back and hello this is John and I recognised the voice but not the John I laughed and started our conversation Since we have not talked since 1990 I just called him top

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Dec 6 at 2021 1:09 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 13:09:15 -0500

I might need some "old timers" to correct me here. I believe that through the 1950s it was common for spouses to be referred to by their military spouse rank. The commander's wife was given certain privileges that you don't see today. I enlisted in 1974 and this custom was supposed to be defunct. In the 1960s my uncle was a MAJ, I remember hearing my aunt complaining about an officer's wife that tried to use her husband's rank, her husband was a CPT. I guess while it was accepted it was not liked. As a young SP4 I was bowling at the rec center and heard a woman yelling at the attendant because she wanted him to babysit her son while she did some shopping. The attendant said that she must accompany her son or leave with him. She said that she was the CG;s wife and would do what she told him to do. The attendant stuck to his guns and told her she could not leave her son unattended. She threatened to have her husband court martial him. He still refuse. he had to call his OIC to get her to leave. She was very mad when she left. Nothing never happened to the attendant, i don;t remember his rank; but rumor had it that the CG told his wife not to try that again. As has been said before, some people just don't get it.

Response by PO3 Ron Cowher made Dec 16 at 2021 1:56 PM

PO3 Ron Cowher — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 13:56:42 -0500

Somebody needs to tell "Karen" that she better be able to show show some bars or stripes of her own, otherwise, I'd tell her "Boot, the end of the line is back there" as I gesture over my shoulder.

Is there a MOS for 'Entitled Bitch' ?

Response by SP5 Donna Barr made Dec 19 at 2021 12:22 PM

SP5 Donna Barr — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 12:22:44 -0500

OMG - you still have Mrs. General and Frau Captain? Girls, you ain’t IN the military. Why we’re supporting you as taxpayers, I don’t know. All troops should be in the barracks, and I mean all. Now - TECHNICALLY all the wives who are citizens (not in the military - we don’t even get jury trials) outrank ALL military. Citizens are the Commanders In Chief, and outrank the president - because all elected officials and military and cops are public SERVANTS. Don’t they teach the full chain of command any more?

Response by CPO Michael Sordelet made Jan 2 at 2022 11:13 AM

CPO Michael Sordelet — Sun, 02 Jan 2022 11:13:16 -0500

As a retired Navy Chief I often have who were stationed on board a submarine with me still call me Chief, as I call any Chief of the boat I served with COB, any Commanding Officer, Capt, any Navigator Nav. ectt ect. These titles though earned are also used after retirement as a sign of camaraderie, friendship and respect. We don't require it, but we do appreciate it.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Jan 14 at 2022 6:35 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:35:00 -0500

I was an E-4 and needed to call Saigon (long distance) on the field phone. For days, I was told that the lines were busy. One morning I picked up the phone and said with an elevated voice, "Give me Saigon". "Yes Sir" was the reply and I got Saigon.

Response by SPC Alisha Dick made Jan 14 at 2022 10:59 AM

SPC Alisha Dick — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:59:18 -0500

My thoughts are that spouses didn't earn the rank, servicemembers do. If you want to play the rank game, earn your own. I'd say you're a civilian, go sit down. A lot of these spouses never achieved anything for themselves in life and claiming another person's achievement is all they have. It's kind of pathetic. Many female veterans have achieved more in and out of the military than these spouses ever will. I hated was when they acted like my husband was the servicemember and he didn't correct them. Needless to say I divorced him after even the company Commander voiced his opinion on my ex. I always tell my kids to watch out for people to show their true colors after you get married. I bet that officer found his wife's true colors and secretly regrets her.

Response by LTC David Howard made Jan 24 at 2022 8:45 AM

LTC David Howard — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 08:45:32 -0500

I never encountered this behavior during my 24 years of active duty, nor did my wife. In the 31 years since my retirement I have not been in a commissary or PX so maybe this is a recent thing. Sad if true.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2022 12:10 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:10:14 -0500

I think this has to do a lot with identity of self and self-worth. I've found that those who weren't valued growing up attach their value to their careers, etc - when a "nobody" joins the military (or graduates college and gets a job) = now they're SOMEBODY :-) I see this a lot when Navy chief's retire - they are stuck in their career identity and when it's "over" - they are in crisis trying to "find themselves again".
People who do this are not "good" nor "bad", they're just people. Now disrespect of another fellow human being is not permissible even with issues with their own identity, etc - many are not in a mature emotional/mental space to hold themselves accountable or hear others feedback.
Coming from a curious perspective when others lash out with their or their spouse's rank helps me manage my reaction and keep my peace of mind when things get stupid at the grocery store ;-)
Frankly, when this hahuman respect can humble (or embarrass) them to return to their spot in-line etc

Response by TSgt John Brody made Mar 17 at 2022 6:01 PM

TSgt John Brody — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:01:11 -0400

Well the short answer is personality type.
Specifically, take a good hard look at the Myers-Briggs Personality Type (MBTI for short). One of the primary types is the xSxJ (SJ's for short) that make up about 60% of the population. This type is DEFINED by their innate drive for status via hierarchy. Think 'crabs in a pot'. They will find any little thing (real or perceived) that puts you beneath them and then run with it. Yes, even the unearned 'status' of being an officers wife.
Sad but true.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Mar 23 at 2022 1:25 PM

SFC Robert Walton — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 13:25:05 -0400

I just came up on this and decided to respond although it is old. Here we go. I personally see it as a lack of respect for others. Which in many cases, started raising its ugly head before retirement. Many Soldiers and families found distaste with how others handled themselves while still in uniform. Lets be honest some folks wore their rank on their sleeve no matter what rank. They wore and I see this festering even more each day on Rally Point.
Lets be honest someone has rubbed another (not Just in the service) the wrong way just about everyday and it is a lasting memory. I see it as more prevalent in the Military because you just can't quit and go to a new job if someone you have to work with for three years makes what you consider a misunderstood decision, or has a bad day, or did not say good morning before barking orders. Tons of reasons and they see that as a Pecking order, rather than a team concept. Thats not to say it is right but people do this a lot and started mostly in the civilian world and has been poisoning the Military starting somewhere around the early 80's. Let me say this is likely the most opinionated thing that I ever got involved in and yes I have had the same issues with others on Rally point and in Civilian life and have swallowed my tongue more than once to keep from stirring the pot any more than needed yet standing my ground. I have seen perceived judgements here and in civilian life to the point of Not answering on a thread just because a person is a certain rank, or has a certain MOS, or Branch of Service.
I admit I took a break away from Rally Point for a while and still stand back and watch on many occasions rather than respond for the same reasons.

One thing is perception of another Soldiers service. I do this often so I watch rather than answering on posts/threads with that as a challenge. What I, and others done on active status 24-7-365 in my day was much different and more demanding than what others who may have been in some type of non full time service. The rules apply differently as well. To sum it all up (My opinion) is our military has become way over civilianized. Whether people like it or not counseling is a training tool not a career ender. But if you mention counseling around folks these days you are a toxic leader.
Now this thing you asked about COL Mikel J. Burroughs puts me in a position to say SOME OF US BECAME ADULTS some did not. 1) there is no rank structure for spouses, However there is professional protocol many of the People on Rally Point have choose to forget that and become brothers and sister from a different Mother. It is always nice to see your post COL Burroughs you always try to keep them on a respect every one on the team type level.

Response by SFC Anthony Mattek made Mar 29 at 2022 7:49 PM

SFC Anthony Mattek — Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:49:41 -0400

I have to admit that the only ti,e my wife ever talks about me and my rank is when she is dropping off coffee or cold water and Gatorade at the main gate for the security police and she tells them that her husband was an MP at one point in his career and knows what it is like to,stand gate duty for long hours outside. Otherwise she never thinks of what my rank means to her. I think like anything else it falls back on the service member to police those actions up before they become a problem. I would hate to be peer pressured into thinking what kind f a spouse I had that I allowed such behavior to go on in public places.

Response by Cpl David Banks made Apr 25 at 2022 4:22 PM

Cpl David Banks — Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:22:51 -0400

I don’t run into this much as I’m not near bases often, but it irks the hell out of me that some dependepotomus thinks being married to someone gives them status. As far as I’m concerned you’re Mrs So-n-So. And to me it doesn’t matter if your husband is the commandant of the Marine Corps for the freshest recruit on Parris island. You haven’t earned a damn thing by being married to someone.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2022 2:53 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 May 2022 02:53:39 -0400

Sounds like someone that is self important and they are Marines...so maybe too many crayons made them enter an early state of biden...or dementia or corn pop being a bad dude...who knows. People are dicks everywhere there is no exception to this in the military.

Response by SGT Timothy Posemato made May 5 at 2022 5:18 PM

SGT Timothy Posemato — Thu, 05 May 2022 17:18:42 -0400

I'm not retired, just a veteran, I'm in many veterans organizations, VVA, AM legion, DAV, VFW, starting a conversation, if it's an officer, it's always sir, enlisted it's always sarge. Sgt major etc. Once the formalities are done everyone in the room is on a first name basis, not just for me but with everyone there. We were taught respect from parents, then in the military, so that'll never go away. It's instilled in our spirit. However, the way I see it, amongst wives, no matter the rank of the husband, it shouldn't be held by the wife. (Or husband). They are still civilians, it's just a thing we call respect, some people think they deserve it.

Response by SrA Gina Hotard made Jun 9 at 2022 5:51 PM

SrA Gina Hotard — Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:51:05 -0400

As both a veteran and a veterans wife, I, nor husband would even dare to pull spouses rank. We didn’t earn that rank, the other did!

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Jun 20 at 2022 9:04 AM

SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall — Mon, 20 Jun 2022 09:04:19 -0400

I have always hoped that the respect that I give and gave rank and the people which wear or wore it, was earned. And some earned more than others. I have and always will give due respect to rank active or retired. The wives lol are trips. The Officers Wives Club or as I called it growing up the Old Women Club are a world of their own.

Response by Sgt David Scott made Jun 30 at 2022 4:20 PM

Sgt David Scott — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 16:20:07 -0400

Rank is something that is earned after lots of work and effort, well for most anyway. It does not go away after separation from the Service, not addressing privileges with this post. Proud of my time I served with Tanks from '68 tp '71 and ready to talk at the drop of a hat. I will also add that I am still called or addressed as Chief after my retirement of 37 years of law enforcement.
I have found that one or the other of those experiences entitles me to a cup of coffee when I meet with many different goups at the local coffee shop (still have to fork over money for the coffee).
Enjoy remembering your times within the service and talk with others as you will be that most are really down to earth. Semper Fi

Response by SPC Domenique McGaughey made Aug 5 at 2022 11:17 AM

SPC Domenique McGaughey — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 11:17:53 -0400

If women want rank, they should serve. End of discussion.

Response by PO2 Gary Riedl made Aug 5 at 2022 7:43 PM

PO2 Gary Riedl — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 19:43:25 -0400

I agree. In fact, many of us go back to get advanced degrees and become a completely different individual than we were in the military. However, old habits are difficult to change and it's easy to revert back to impulses we had in the past. Much like how we treat older siblings, even into adulthood.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2022 4:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Aug 2022 16:19:23 -0400

Got to be an Active Duty thing. You try this in the wild at a civilian shopping center, liable to get you a** handed to you. I suggest leaving post life behind and see how the real world works. No disrespect here. But I've only heard of this "privilege" while working as a gov contractor and Mobilized on active bases.

Response by SSG Lj Corley made Aug 6 at 2022 5:54 PM

SSG Lj Corley — Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:54:44 -0400

Some folks are impressed with themselves, especially this moron. Be brave, Col. I'm sure you have met plenty of Rank-conscious folks who often really have no real reason to be. People are what's wrong with this planet. Thank you for your post.

Response by CPL Stephen Hemmert made Aug 7 at 2022 11:08 AM

CPL Stephen Hemmert — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 11:08:21 -0400

Interesting comments. It would be nice if respect was uniformly applied to all who served. My wife served in the Women's Army Corp during the Viet Nam War. She and I can be standing together, each wearing baseball caps and tee shirts reflecting our military experience. Fellow veterans and non-veterans acknowledge my service and look right past her, as if she never served. One issue that I and my wife find irritating is she female spouses will tell my wife that spouses "serve too," as if being a military spouse equates to a woman who has served in the military.

Response by SSG Tim Newell, PhD made Aug 9 at 2022 9:35 AM

SSG Tim Newell, PhD — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 09:35:56 -0400

Col Burroughs, I agree with you completely, but at the same time, it is what it is. Like you, I address people I don't know well by their last known rank. Other's that I do know well and have lond since surpassed the rank that I knew them as, I sometimes still address them by their lower rank, but it's out of fondness, not disrespect.
I retired as a SSG. Not the rank I aspired to, but it is what it is. I blame nobody but myself for my terminal rank. However, I am now a PhD, and when I speak with high ranking people, they give my PhD much more respect than they ever did my terminal rank.
As a retired MP, I can tell you that I've heard "Do you know who my husband is?" way too many times. All but once, I saluted the dependent in question, except once... Part of the reason for my terminal rank, but that's a whole nother story!

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Aug 9 at 2022 1:40 PM

MAJ Norm Michaels — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 13:40:04 -0400

Back when I was a captain, I was stationed at MacDill AFB in Florida. Not long after the Gulf War, I was in line at the pharmacy. Recently retired General H. Norman Schwarzkopf came to get in line behind me with his body guard. I turned around, saw him, and immediately backed to the side offering him preference in the line. He looked at me and said he was retired now, that I was the active soldier, and that I had priority in the line. He was quite a man.

Response by SFC Eric Harmon made Aug 10 at 2022 7:10 AM

SFC Eric Harmon — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 07:10:58 -0400

All retired service members share the same rank, that of veteran.

Response by CW3 Andrew Schwartz made Aug 10 at 2022 1:10 PM

CW3 Andrew Schwartz — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 13:10:48 -0400

Yes sir I agree with you 100%! In the real world I have many friends and acquaintances that range from E-4 to O-8 and we all address each other by first name, very well knowing what we all were. I still get mail for CW4 and CW3 but I know it's a formality. My buds sometimes refer to me as "Air Marshal" after enjoying a few adult beverages - in humor. I suppose some folks have an insecurity about them and need to "name-drop / rank card" to feel better. Thank you for your service Mikel!

Response by Sgt Linda Limon made Aug 11 at 2022 11:29 AM

Sgt Linda Limon — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 11:29:23 -0400

When flying Space A, we were flying along with a group led by a former 2 Star General. He made sure that every member of his group, and my husband and I, were given a room and put on the transportation, prior to he and his wife boarding. I felt so grateful. We were not a part of his group, and he still looked out for us.

Response by SFC James High made Aug 12 at 2022 11:01 AM

SFC James High — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:01:39 -0400

Playing "The Rank Card" is never going to go away as long as humans are the ones wearing or retiring at those ranks. The military has always frowned upon fraternization between Commissioned & Warrant, Non-Commissioned, & Enlisted members since the Army was created. And I just think that some people can't let that go regardless of their status. Plus, I have noticed throughout my life in the military (as a dependent & then as a service member) that wives and dependents usually wear their sponsor's rank better than the sponsor! One exception to that is if you are addressing a retired General Officer or anyone that is still in an active status should be referred to by their rank when in public.

Response by SFC Paul Baker made Aug 12 at 2022 11:14 AM

SFC Paul Baker — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:14:27 -0400

It’s not the Officers of Senior Enlisted….it’s definitely spouses that abuse this.

Response by 1LT Cindy Swartz made Aug 12 at 2022 11:43 AM

1LT Cindy Swartz — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:43:14 -0400

I would like the same question answer based on amount charged based on rank while on active duty at Military Welfare facilities, on bases and off like the military resort in Orlando. A retired officer from reserve disposable income potentially less than active duty or active duty retired rank.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Aug 12 at 2022 4:05 PM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 16:05:32 -0400

Mrs. Colonel has exactly the same rank as Mrs. Private... Spouse! Because of the age and experience, I would expect a Colonel's wife to have the social graces to not be a narcissistic bitch to the general public.
I still refer to my brothers by their respective ranks because that is how our relationship was formed.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Aug 13 at 2022 10:26 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 22:26:46 -0400

I think you might've answered your own question. "out of respect for what they have accomplished." Now right or wrong, I will all E7's and higher, by their rank unless requested to do otherwise. However, extending that to a spouse and privilege's that go with it? That's a RESOUNDING NO!

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Aug 14 at 2022 1:53 AM

SPC Brian Stephens — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 01:53:05 -0400

I really have nothing to say about rank and privilege. At the gate we were always told to waive somebody's red Mustang with an eagle on the hood through. We did not even get a license plate number or anything else. What if a buck private with a wealthy father in law drove the same model car and eagle decal on the hood through the gate? What if Mahmoud from Iran drove that same car through the gate to detonate a suicide vest inside a barracks? Such a policy was excessive and stupid, especially during Desert Storm.

Regarding the Commissary I found when I still lived on Whidbey Island that Wal-Mart was more popular than the Commissary for military families and the prices were cheaper. Further, the NAS people did not have to deal with the commander's wife's privilege.

Response by MAJ Michael Cummings made Aug 14 at 2022 8:51 AM

MAJ Michael Cummings — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 08:51:10 -0400

To me, it doesn't matter an individuals rank, they are all brother or sisters in arms. I have many lifelong friends whom I stay in contact with that span all ranks of the military.

When I meet a new vet, I never bring up rank. It is about the shared journey that we share even if our career paths or era's were different. If they bring up their rank I respect it which will generally end with them saying something along the lines of, that was a long time ago, I'm just John or Jane now. The only ones I see hanging on to rank are those that were power hungry in their career and it typically kills any conversations quickly.

I have more respect for the humble leader than those who try to lead by demands.

Response by SSG Elyzabeth Cromer made Aug 14 at 2022 12:10 PM

SSG Elyzabeth Cromer — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 12:10:04 -0400

COL Burroughs, First I would like to say I am sorry your wife was treated that way. At the same time I kind of pity the officer's spouse; how shallow and insecure must that person be to belittle someone based accomplishments that are not their own?
As far as playing the rank card after retirement, I have found (especially in reserve and NG) until you get to know a person one has no idea what they have accomplished. While serving in a Reserve PSYOP Unit back in the late '90's I worked with more than one E4 who made six figures at their civilian job, and a MAJ who was a grocerybagger at the store his wife owned. (Personally as someone who worked as a cashier in a supermarket for a year between high-school and college I wouldn't have let him bag my groceries, the man could barely tie his boot laces.) Rank is required to be respected while in service, and I personally will not disrespect anyone of higher rank here on RP. That being said, it would be ill advised for anyone to attempt to pull rank on me when they do not have any, (spouses and children do not have rank) or in a civilian environment (off duty in a bar or during retirement).
I will probably get some flak for this next statement but considering there is yet another round of stories of service members being sexual assaulted by higher ups, I think it needs to be said; "the rank card" does not ever allow someone to touch another person in anyway that they are uncomfortable with. If anyone needs to use their rank to get someone to have sex with them they need to be reduced in rank, ( as part of their punishment.)

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Aug 14 at 2022 8:05 PM

SMSgt Bob W. — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:05:25 -0400

I've seen two types of military people: [1] the "brainwashed person" [Vet] who remembers to respect all military personnel who outranked them; and [2] the retired military person who wants everyone to remember that he/she were in a leadership role in the military [Sarge, Sergeant Major, Chief, Major, Colonel, General, etc.]. The second group just want let go. I now work with a guy who has been retired for 23 years and when asked his name, will answer, "...you can call me Sarge..."

Response by LCpl Stewie Perlman made Aug 15 at 2022 1:49 AM

LCpl Stewie Perlman — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 01:49:21 -0400

I maybe a peeon but these wives no reason what so ever to play a rank card whether it's at a commissary or a bowling alley or wherever they are at they didn't go to a boot camp and earn the right to use such a card they need to stand in line where they got in it and wait thier turn, the only way I would give up a spot in a line is if she is prego other than that wait your damn turn and quit sniveling.

Response by Sgt James Gross made Aug 15 at 2022 2:36 AM

Sgt James Gross — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 02:36:04 -0400

I volunteered at a VA Medical Center and had a few try to play the rank card with me. It didn’t win them any points as I treated them the same as any other veteran. It rankled a few tail feathers but so what. We all served for the same cause.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Aug 15 at 2022 6:01 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 06:01:54 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs.?
I Can't Speak For Anyone Else, But I LIKE Addressing The Others By Rank.
It, Somehow, Allows Me To Feel As Though I'm Reliving Some Of Those Years,
Even If For But A Moment in Time. I Don't Always Do It, But I Do Like It...
And BTW, It Also Reminds Me Of Those Days When I Was SO Proud To Be a Member Of Our USAF And Military Services.... And I Still AM.

Response by PO2 Stephen Wells made Aug 15 at 2022 3:05 PM

PO2 Stephen Wells — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:05:33 -0400

Back in the early 1960s I was just a young boy. My dad was an Army Tech Sgt who had just gotten promoted to WO-2. The new post commander at a small training post called all of the Officer's wives to a meeting. Once they were all seated, he introduces himself to the wives. Then he asks the women to stand up, organize, and change seating according to rank. After about 10 minutes of playing "who's your husband?" They were all satisfied they had complied and took their seats.

The new commander smiled and said "wrong!" brief pause.......... No matter where you would have sit down, it would have been wrong. Because..... Get this..... None of you have any rank. If a Major's wife complains to me some NCO's wife got a better parking spot at the swimming pool....... That Major will answer to me.....
My mom was German and did not know what was going on (I was her 6-year-old 1/2 American translator) thus we never got seated in the first place. LOL!!!

Ahhhhh the 60's

Response by CPO Kim Hanthorn made Aug 15 at 2022 4:04 PM

CPO Kim Hanthorn — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 16:04:39 -0400

WOW, I came across this, and made my blood boil. MAYBE SOMEONE NEEDS TO TEACH THESE SPOUSES SOME MANNERS. in my book that should be the opposite. The junior ranks should have head of the line privileges. As a leader I am here to take care of the most valuable asset the Military has, ITS PEOPLE. These senior ranks have cars and the ability to get off base to shop. I remember as an E1 to E4 I didn’t have the money to have those Luxuries. LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE. To all you “OFFICERS AND YOUR SPOUSES” PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES! AS A LEADER YOUR THE LAST TO SIT DOWN TO EAT! YOUR PEOPLE COME FIRST! YOU HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THAT YOU CAN KISS MY ASS. DO NOT EVER CROSS THAT LINE WITH ME, IF I EVER SEE THAT, I WILL BE CHEWING SOMEONES ASS OUT. I COULD GIVE TWO FUCKS WHAT YOUR RANK IS, YOUR JUNIOR OFFICERS, AND ESPECIALLY YOUR JUNIOR ENLISTED GET TAKEN CARE OF FIRST! I HAVE NEVER FORGOTTEN WHERE I CAME FROM, AND I REMEMBER BEING IN THOSE SHOES! I SPENT CLOSE TO 26 YEARS IN THE MILITARY BEFORE I RETIRED, YOU PULL THAT RANK BULLSHIT WITH ME, I’LL PULL THAT SHIT OFF YOU AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TREAT PEOPLE LIKE THAT BECAUSE OF YOUR OR YOUR SPOUSES RANK! Navy Chief Navy Pride! HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT!

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 15 at 2022 4:50 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 16:50:23 -0400

Colonel, I suspect your wife was the victim of a wife who had a bad experience with another higher ranking member's wife who subsequently saw ALL higher ranked personnel with her bias.
As for stereotyping people by their rank, I do so with Sergeants and above. I don't denegrate lower ranked folks on here because of that; especially when their civilian jobs/careers may far surpass either my own (military or civilian). Yet, fellow NCO's and officers, inactive, active or pure civilian deserve to be addressed by their rank; unless advised otherwise.
While I don't mind being called, "Sarge" or "Staff Seargent," I certainly do not feel it's necessary. I guess you'd say I'm ambivalent about it. Even if you were to advise me that your first name is fine, I'd probably continue to refer to you as Colonel I suppose because that's my mindset.
The only negative I see to any so-called stereotyping would be to denegrate ANY lower ranked person. As an MP, I often referred to Privates as, "sir," on traffic stops. In some situations, after ID'ing them, I sometimes used their first name, more to put them at ease if they were nervous about a military cop confronting them for a minor wrong. One thin I never did, and INSISTED my shift members never did, was to "talk down" to anyone. For really serious, Court Martial level offenders, or felons otherwise, STRICT military protocol was the norm in the overwhelming majority of such cases.

Response by CPT Bill Doherty made Aug 16 at 2022 7:48 PM

CPT Bill Doherty — Tue, 16 Aug 2022 19:48:27 -0400

When I was enlisted I appreciated the officers who did not remind me that they were my superiors.
During the time I was commissioned I spent time on staff where I had to use persuasion to get support. When I was given command it was valuable to remember that to get people on board they needed to be persuaded if you wanted them to work towards mission completion when you were not in direct supervision. It’s the same with pulling rank. And spouses although I accepted that she always out ranked me when she left the house she was a civilian. And as such was no better but just as good as everybody else.

Response by PO3 Paul Whitus made Aug 16 at 2022 9:44 PM

PO3 Paul Whitus — Tue, 16 Aug 2022 21:44:52 -0400

ASSHOLES EVERYWHERE ALWAYS BE THAT WAY, LOL

Response by SGT Judy Swift Johnson made Aug 16 at 2022 10:49 PM

SGT Judy Swift Johnson — Tue, 16 Aug 2022 22:49:31 -0400

I always hated that uppity type of belittling of officers wives toward enlisted wives as well. I served 6.5 years in US Army active duty abd got out on a medical discharge after Desert Storm and became an Army spouse. While in Germany, my husband's unit deployed to Hungary for 9 mos and we didn't even have a family support group like I was used to having in our unit during the war. I had wives coming to me, freaking out and not knowing what to do, etc, one of which was a German national and very pregnant. The unit had a very new Co commander who had yet to deploy with the company, since he had just gotten to tge unit the week of deployment and his wife had just had a baby. I had to go to him for help to try and get something going for the families. Then we decided to have an Easter egg hunt and party for the kids and use it as a way to get spouses together. All was going well until the Lt Col's wife decided to come in the midst of planning and take over. I felt she needed her recognition (I certainly didn't need it), so I quietly backed out and let her take over. Sad that she couldn't be the beginning of a family support group. Oh and her husband left Hungary after only a few months so he get get his Full bird and PCS elsewhere (found out later he volunteered the unit for deployment so he could stick a feather in his cap, so-to-speak. To honest, he wasn't that great of a leader, in my opinion either.

Response by Sgt William Kirby made Aug 17 at 2022 2:26 PM

Sgt William Kirby — Wed, 17 Aug 2022 14:26:27 -0400

When I was still in the reserves I got a new job and was part of a small training class. One of my new coworkers was a recently retired colonel. At first I was a bit nervous about it but he was very cool. He called my Sgt maybe once or twice but in a polite respectful way. I never called him by his rank but I did always call him, sir.

Response by SN Jerry Carney made Aug 17 at 2022 2:34 PM

SN Jerry Carney — Wed, 17 Aug 2022 14:34:20 -0400

my brother in law and a golf buddy retired as lt. Col. i got discharged as a SN through no fault of my own. Anyway I, on occasion, remind them that I should'nt be conversing with them.. Of course this is only in a joking manner. I respect for what they have done, and, they respect me also for my military experiences

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2022 4:36 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2022 16:36:54 -0400

This is nonsense. First, if it is not their rank who cares? I am not saying that military spouses do not suffer if they are supporting the service member, but they do not have a rank. (Unless they were also a service member.) My wife has also run into this issue and it has become one of the reasons why we do not engage with the FRG or she engages in any of the spouse groups on base.
In my opinion, if the spouse is using that as a means of discriminating against another spouse then they do not have a life separate from their service member. Especially as a retiree, just be happy we all got out of this thing!

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Aug 20 at 2022 9:33 PM

PO1 David M Burns — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 21:33:39 -0400

wives of ALL members of the Armed forces are classed as DEPENDENTS! says so on their I.D. cards. the only authority or prividlege they have is to beat up their wimp husbands! and as for rank for retirees, to retire as a PFC is nothing to brag about but to retire as a Master Sergeant, that' says something about your career accomplishments.

Response by SMSgt Matthew Hoyer made Sep 22 at 2022 5:34 PM

SMSgt Matthew Hoyer — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 17:34:56 -0400

Possibly an apocryphal story that I heard, but this is how it went from the guy i was in ALS with: 12AF CG at Davis Monthan's wife rolls through the gate and like 1 in the morning and demands to be saluted as she pulls up (pre-9/11 so we still had the blue stickers on cars for officers). The Airman at the gate tells her that he isn't saluting her because it's just her in the car, she smells a little like alcohol and he's trying to cut her a break. She yells something at him for a minute then speeds off. About 2 hours later, the 3-star comes to the gate asking if there is an Airman there that let his wife through the gate, and if so, he'd like to speak with them. GO asks the Airman if what he heard was true, Airman says it was and the General shook his hand saying, "Nobody should take any shit off of a dependent, especially my wife; thanks, man".
I really hope that story is true.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Sep 24 at 2022 1:24 PM

CWO3 Robert Fong — Sat, 24 Sep 2022 13:24:11 -0400

While attending an Admiral's Luncheon for the staff this same topic arose. After all the chit chat and theories had been expounded upon, I heard a Captain remark, "Your husband is the Captain, you are not." Well, that about says it all.

Response by MSG Mamerto Perez made Nov 1 at 2022 4:01 PM

MSG Mamerto Perez — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 16:01:13 -0400

after a military person retired, his privilges are gone. HE IS A PFC , PROPE FUCKING CILVIAN.

Response by SPC David Buttrey made Dec 17 at 2022 10:29 AM

SPC David Buttrey — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:29:13 -0500

I still refer to some people I know by rank but it’s more as a sign of respect and nothing else.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Aug 12 at 2024 5:14 PM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Mon, 12 Aug 2024 17:14:41 -0400

I have never encountered this issue. I have friends at the club and play golf with them often. They range from junior enlisted veterans to full Colonels who piloted jets in Vietnam. Wives also socialize and rank envy has never reared it's ugly head. While on active duty I was married to an Army Nurse. I retired as a First Sergeant and a year later, she retired as a LTC. Rank was not a problem in the service - we knew our boundaries and stayed within them.

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Aug 13 at 2024 1:25 AM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:25:44 -0400

Those who play the rank card are those who are absolute nobodies otherwise. I've been pretty lucky in that I have more phalanges on one hand than having encountered those types of people.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Aug 14 at 2024 4:32 AM

LTC Trent Klug — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 04:32:04 -0400

My wife has never played the rank card. She'd have told that lady, in a string of many curse words, where to go among other things.

I always play the rank card. I eat last at every function I attend.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Sep 2 at 2024 2:50 AM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 02:50:08 -0400

You wanna know what rank a General's wife has?
The same as a Private's wife... NONE!!!
Treat people like people and stop bein' a bitch just because you ride a dick with a star on it's collar! Be nice and let your actions reflect positively on your husband and you will be treated with respect.

Response by Maj James Tippins made Sep 3 at 2024 10:44 AM

Maj James Tippins — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 10:44:01 -0400

"Why do veterans and active duty members still stereotype by rank after someone has retired or left the service?"

If you earned a grade in the service and retire, you always have that grade. And it may cost you more in some places. For example, you get charged for lodging based on your retired grade. I am a retired Major and pay more than a retired enlisted person to stay in base lodging. Additionally, I am a regular officer, so I can be recalled to active duty at any time. It's not something I would relish, but I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and I will do that.

One thing about veterans that I personally gripe about is that many services treat top enlisted ranks with more respect than any "less-than-equivalent" officer rank. I challenge any E-9 to face the same court martial that I would as a Major if we did something equally bad. I would be the one who gets the most punishment. When I was on active duty, I suspect an E-4 would obey my order over an E-9, just like I would obey an O-6 over an O-5. This is just a gripe that has no purpose other than to gripe!

Finally, as a veteran, I respect all retired officers who achieved my rank or higher. This also includes lower officer ranks of retired Mustangs. It wasn't easy to earn their rank, and the people who performed their official duties honorably deserve respect for their entire lives. I wear a hat with a gold leaf on it. I wear it proudly. I respect anyone who served honorably for any amount of time, but remember, RHIP.

All ranting is now turned off...release the rocks my way!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2024 9:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 21:03:47 -0400

Sir,
I think your post has two separate topics squished together. Spouses using the military members rank for an unearned privilege vs making a certain assumption based on the rank of the retired person. A Soldier who is retired with the grade of E5, for instance, I wouldn't expect them to have a ton of experience at the brigade, division, or higher levels of logistics operations, as a 92Y myself. An E9 or O6 with a logistics MOS, I would expect to be a little more knowledgeable... so, asking a person's rank and job helps to tailor the conversation appropriately.

Response by CPO Christian Wilson made Sep 4 at 2024 9:17 AM

CPO Christian Wilson — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 09:17:51 -0400

There are "Karens" in all walks of life...

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Sep 4 at 2024 4:23 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 16:23:23 -0400

The way I heard it:
Commander Somebody's wife was in the Commissary in Naples and was going to cut the line exclaiming her hubby was an O-4 and she didn't have time to wait for others. One of the Wives in line stopped her and said that her husband was a four striper and if she could wait, so could a Commander's Wife. The Commander's wife meekly returned to the end of the line. After she was out of earshot, the Four Striper's wife said, My Husband is a Master Chief with over 16 years in, I don't care about his rank unless you mess with me like that. LOL

Response by SPC Edward Abney made Sep 10 at 2024 10:25 AM

SPC Edward Abney — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 10:25:02 -0400

I would expect wives of senior officers to be gracious and lead by example.

Response by Sgt John Edwards made Sep 11 at 2024 5:57 PM

Sgt John Edwards — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 17:57:29 -0400

I was a SrA (E-4) when I was enlisted years ago. I dare someone to disrespect/treat me as such in my older adult life. I will quickly embarrass you!

Response by CAPT Genevieve Rich, MD, Ph.D. made Sep 11 at 2024 7:00 PM

CAPT Genevieve Rich, MD, Ph.D. — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 19:00:26 -0400

All active duty members and veterans no matter the rank are deserving of respect. For active duty members, I have seen in command were the from the top down permeates a culture of stereotyping and treating lower ranks with disrespect and subtle disdain. We all know it exists. As for some veterans it is very hard for them to make that transition into the civilian world. The military is so ingrained into them. It was a major part of their life. I see it every day in many of my patients. They have a hard time moving on.

As for the spouses that want to “wear” the rank…they can go pack sand! I have experienced so many times when I was not in uniform. Like a woman wanted a parking spot and told me her husband was a Major. I said, honey. I am a Navy Captain! It was not even a special spot. She was pissed because I pulled in first!

Response by Cpl William Cook made Sep 12 at 2024 10:19 AM

Cpl William Cook — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:19:30 -0400

This is so timely and correct. Blood has no rank!

Response by SP5 Laura Medina made Sep 12 at 2024 10:23 AM

SP5 Laura Medina — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:23:31 -0400

I was on active duty for service while in the Air Guard for weather training. I outranked my instructor and when the weekend our superior took me aside and asked politely if I would mind helping the instructor to clean the station. I was surprised. He explained that typically the student did not out rank the instructor so it wasn't an issue but since I did I was not obligated to help. I said this is the military and we are a team and it was my duty to help. This is the mind set one should retain after transitioning, rank does not confer the right to belittle another person or take privileges from them. Indeed the higher the rank the higher a standard a person is expected follow as they are leaders. I never rose above E-4 on active duty but I treated the General and the Private with the same respect, they were my brothers and sisters and deserved it. As a veteran I do the same to every veteran for the same reason.

Response by SSG James Mielke made Sep 13 at 2024 6:47 PM

SSG James Mielke — Fri, 13 Sep 2024 18:47:31 -0400

"Why do veterans and active duty members still stereotype by rank after someone has retired or left the service?"

I cannot say I have ever seen or experienced this.
I have experienced personnel still in service treat retirees and long career veterans as if they are beneath their notice, and I find that kind of off-putting. This behavior seems very common in SM's that have been deployed during recent hostilities.

More to the point of the post, I and the veterans I work with all give each other shit about ranks, MOS's, and branch of service. Just so many Jarheads, Wing-Wipers, and Squids where I work. We need more DAGBYs (Dumb Ass Gun Bunny).

Response by PO1 Tom Kinman made Nov 1 at 2024 9:33 PM

PO1 Tom Kinman — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 21:33:07 -0400

So many wives think they take on the husband's rank. The wives club is terrible about this. My wife always told the other wives that she doesn't play that game and an E-6 wife is the same as an O-6 wife. Now that I'm retired even an Admiral is addressed by me as brother, dude or man.

Response by SFC Jo Ann Klawitter made Nov 2 at 2024 11:43 PM

SFC Jo Ann Klawitter — Sat, 02 Nov 2024 23:43:21 -0400

How petty
There are some people that just don’t get it

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Nov 3 at 2024 10:41 AM

MSG Thomas Currie — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 10:41:07 -0500

There seems to be a disconnect between the title on this thread and the content -- starting right from the original post by COL Mikel J. Burroughs.

The title is about stereotyping while the original post and most of the replies are about wives trying to "play the rank card" based on their husband's rank.

Stereotyping is normal and unavoidable -- it actually can be healthy and practical as well. Whenever you meet someone new it is unavoidable to make some initial assumptions based on whatever information you have. For military members, rank is an absolutely essential part of that information and the practice will naturally continue among veterans. Stereotyping only becomes negative if we fail to adjust those initial assumptions as additional information becomes available.

The fact that nearly all aspects of military life are highly structured and stratified makes rank a natural part of everything we think, say, and do, even when we don't intend it. Some people are just unable to distinguish when and how rank is or isn't appropriate.

Military members playing the rank card is also normal although it is sometimes carried to inappropriate extremes, especially among service members who achieve rank without the competence or leadership skills that such rank implies. Veterans typically have little tolerance for others playing the rank card, even if they are doing it themselves.

Wives "playing the rank card" is problem that I thought was fading. There was a time when the military encouraged this practice - often unintentionally. For example, how many bases still have an organized "Officers' Wives Club" that conducts various activities. This is almost exclusively a problem with wives, rather than "spouses" because it is rooted in women not having an identity of their own outside their roles as a daughter, wife, and mother, aspiring to reach the pinnacle as matriarch which only comes with family money and power.

Response by SCPO Michael Peters made Nov 3 at 2024 1:10 PM

SCPO Michael Peters — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 13:10:04 -0500

Respect should be given regardless of Active, Reserve, Retired, etc… Spouses should have nothing to do with there Military members rank. But as long as humans have faults we will have pride, envy, etc… Unfortunate but true.

Response by SCPO Michael Peters made Nov 3 at 2024 1:20 PM

SCPO Michael Peters — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 13:20:25 -0500

I was helping a very nice gentleman out with low tires. He asked if I was Military. I said I was retired Navy Reserve. He asked how many years I did, if I was in the war, and what my rank was. I told him I did 31 yrs, 3 tours, and was a Senior Chief. He did this bow down and was very enthusiastic. After asking the same questions of him… I found out he was a full Bird Colonel! What a great guy!

Response by Sgt Randy Van Heusden made Nov 3 at 2024 8:11 PM

Sgt Randy Van Heusden — Sun, 03 Nov 2024 20:11:48 -0500

I think it is an interesting question, especially since I have been out of the military for 48 years. Rank definitely applies when you are in the military and it all makes sense, right or wrong. Once you have retired, the formal Mr or Mrs or even Miss if that is appropriate should be used. You are no longer in the military. When I go to the VA hospital for my medical care, no one that I know of refers to themselves by their rank as part of their identification. You may be in the waiting room and start up a conversation that may bring up rank and position in the military, but it is conversation not protocol. I have not heard anyone being rude with expecting preference because of their rank and position in the military.

In the commissary a combination of active duty and retired people do mix, but even here rank and position have no place. We are all shopping for food to feed our families, I do not think that even the president of the commissary would expect special privileges in their own store. The line is first come first served. I do know the lines are too long to begin with and not enough check out registers operating.

Rank may have its privileges, in the military, but the store is even and level ground and everyone should be treated equally with respect, especially since you are on a military base.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Nov 4 at 2024 2:05 PM

SGT James Murphy — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 14:05:16 -0500

There are idiot's Everywhere. I'd just blow them off and not associate with them at all. Leave them to their own thoughts. I'd actually go out of my way NOT to help them.