SSG Private RallyPoint Member 5579732 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This stereotype seems to be true still in today&#39;s conventional army.<br />Curious as to why Units have issues with always staying late at work and not doing anything 2020-02-20T05:35:43-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 5579732

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This stereotype seems to be true still in today&#39;s conventional army.<br />Curious as to why Units have issues with always staying late at work and not doing anything

2020-02-20T05:35:43-05:00 2020-02-20T05:35:43-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 5579738

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>24/7, get your “job”done...you won’t stay late

2020-02-20T05:43:55-05:00 2020-02-20T05:43:55-05:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 5579743

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There is a lot missing here. How late, what is the unit mission at the time. Is it that there was a command requirement not met?

2020-02-20T05:52:17-05:00 2020-02-20T05:52:17-05:00 SGM Steve Wettstein 5579744

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I always used the &quot;train to standard not to time&quot; mentality. Many days I would release my platoon early. Rarely did I keep them past 1700 unless we had to do something that really required us to stay late.

2020-02-20T05:53:18-05:00 2020-02-20T05:53:18-05:00 1SG Dennis Hicks 5580102

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Units being held past their normal release time has most likely been going on since the Roman legions, while there are many good reasons to keep a unit later, important info that needs to be distributed, last Sensitive item not accounted for, changes in start time for the next work day, required issues not taken care of during the duty day etc, etc. There are far more example of poor leadership either forgetting there are troops sitting down at units waiting to be released to eat, see their loved ones, take care of important purchase that need to be done before places close. How many times have First line leaders sat through speeches /Death by power point/ a Pet Peeve debate and assorted other &quot;I LIKE TO HEAR MY VOICE&quot; Oxygen depletion sessions. Some &quot;leaders&quot; either through purposeful acts or because they get distracted have troops standing by only to be told regular 1st call, PT, vehicle and weapons PMCS which creates poor morale when done consistently. Maybe as the leaders go up through the ranks and work longer days they forget the troops with get their long days down the line when the get more rank. As a PSG I had to be in the Barracks no later than 0500 and many times long after the Troops were released I was in meetings at 1900-2000 about nothing only to return at 0500, This along with weekend/Holliday visits to the Barracks to check on the young&#39;s to make sure they take out the trash, don&#39;t burn the Barracks down or declare war on a neighboring company involving start clusters, grenade sims and assorted pyro and rifles. <br />My belief was that Troops will always work long days due the the nature of their jobs so there is no reason to make them stay for &quot;NOTHING&quot; as they will already be staying for &quot;SOMETHING&quot; down the line.

2020-02-20T07:27:23-05:00 2020-02-20T07:27:23-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 5580212

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>once had a company CO that had us &quot;dress right dress&quot; all the vehicles in the motor pool using string line and tape measures as an excuse to keep us late.

2020-02-20T08:17:58-05:00 2020-02-20T08:17:58-05:00 CW4 Anthoney Lowry 5580215

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>i had a company commander 1 time tell the entire company full of warrant officers, NCOs, and soldiers that &quot;if only everyone would work like him, we could get so much more accomplished&quot; he was the guy who stayed till 9-10 at night, would work the weekends sitting in his office on his computer, no family life whatsoever. but he made it to full bird before he retired...

2020-02-20T08:18:50-05:00 2020-02-20T08:18:50-05:00 LTC John Griscom 5580339

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My policy was if you have nothing to do, do it somewhere else. There would be times for long hours, but only if required.

2020-02-20T09:02:10-05:00 2020-02-20T09:02:10-05:00 MAJ Ronnie Reams 5580353

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Hurry up and wait is a time honored tradition in the Army. However, I think that at Retreat formation, if there is a need to stay and work later in the evening, that should be announced. Troops can go to mess hall and chow down and then go to barracks and chill until the later work call. Is there such a thing as quitting time in the new Army?

2020-02-20T09:06:53-05:00 2020-02-20T09:06:53-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 5580369

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;ll be honest.<br />I always found it way more grating to have an impossibly early report time than I did having to stay late to accomplish some task or another. If you can&#39;t hit SP, you haven&#39;t trained and/or planned enough.

2020-02-20T09:09:50-05:00 2020-02-20T09:09:50-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 5580449

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was in a reserve unit like that, especially for NCO&#39;s. NCO&#39;s showed up at 0430, but we actually had nothing to do until first formation when the rest of the company showed up at 0700. sign out typically was 04:30 but NCO&#39;s usually stayed until 19:00 hours. I don&#39;t mind coming in or staying late if we need to but it seemed we just stood around waiting most of that time doing nothing, just a standing order from the commander.

2020-02-20T09:26:16-05:00 2020-02-20T09:26:16-05:00 SCPO Jason McLaughlin 5580488

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Just an opinion. In today&#39;s military, leaders at all levels are held more accountable for the behavior of their charges. Therefore, the less &quot;free time&quot; the troops have, the less opportunity to make poor choices.

2020-02-20T09:34:20-05:00 2020-02-20T09:34:20-05:00 CSM Danny S. 5580697

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There can be a lot of reasons to stay late and you may not see them. I personally can&#39;t stand to stay but I will and what is late. My work doesn&#39;t end with the duty day. Sometimes it is about showing that tasks will be completed to standard or to a time schedule depending on the task. The one thing soldiers hate is taking their free time. Now with that being said I usually only keep the group that is delinquent or responsible for the issue. Sometimes working late is directed by higher to complete something that should of been given out weeks ago but needs to be done now. So the bulk of this comes from someone not doing their job or a planning failure at some level. It&#39;s a soup sandwich and we all get to take a bite.

2020-02-20T10:34:02-05:00 2020-02-20T10:34:02-05:00 CPO Clifford Henry 5580857

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>99% of the time it’s a power trip and nothing more. They do it because they can..

2020-02-20T11:26:25-05:00 2020-02-20T11:26:25-05:00 CSM Richard StCyr 5581000

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Only had one unit like that and then only through one Commander. The rest were pretty squared away and as long as there wasn&#39;t any ERC -a equipment down with parts on hand we were off by 1700. Of course if we had ranges or construction missions we stayed until stuff on the schedule was complete and equipment clean.

2020-02-20T12:04:24-05:00 2020-02-20T12:04:24-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 5581085

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>the same reason PVT snuffy shows up at 0300 for a 0800 mission. BC tells XO 0800. Not wanting people to be late, XO tells Company COs 0700. CO tells 1SG 0600 for the same reason. 1SG tells PSGs 0500. PSG tells squad leader 0400 and squad leader tells PVT Snuffy 0300. Then BC arrives at 0745 and wonders why everyone is already pissed off because they&#39;ve been sitting around doing nothing for 5 hours.

2020-02-20T12:24:53-05:00 2020-02-20T12:24:53-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 5581151

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>what always killed me as a lower enlisted in the guard was we&#39;d sit around all weekend doing nothing and then suddenly at 1500 on Sunday afternoon there was all this shit, that we could have been doing all day Saturday and Sunday morning, that absolutely had to get done before we could be released. And you always knew that leadership knew about that shit beforehand. It&#39;s not like higher just dropped it on them last minute. They just sat on it until Sunday afternoon so they&#39;d have an excuse to keep you late.

2020-02-20T12:44:26-05:00 2020-02-20T12:44:26-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 5581300

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was a Commander I frequently released our E4 and below while the rest of us completed our tasks. NCOERs, Counselings, etc. still needed to get done, but I didn&#39;t need PFC Snuffy there to do it. Why some Commanders feel the need to do as you describe I&#39;m not really sure. Most likely it&#39;s what&#39;s called &quot;shared misery.&quot; Or in other words, some of us have to be here so all of us have to be here. The only caveat I would offer is this: If you get let out early you don&#39;t really have grounds to complain if you&#39;re recalled due to an unforeseen circumstance.

2020-02-20T13:32:41-05:00 2020-02-20T13:32:41-05:00 SPC Rob Lewis 5581331

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It&#39;s not a 9-5 job...Between embracing the suck , Hurry up and wait, O-dark 30 is the place most of us found our self with not a clue as to WTF.

2020-02-20T13:43:05-05:00 2020-02-20T13:43:05-05:00 TSgt Private RallyPoint Member 5581337

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;m in the Air Force, I don&#39;t understand the question.

2020-02-20T13:44:22-05:00 2020-02-20T13:44:22-05:00 SFC Benjamin Varlese 5581374

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I generally abhor statements like “to standard not to time” because it means a unit or it’s leadership needs to reevaluate its time management capabilities. Backwards planning and time hacks can do a lot to prevent soldiers from staying late. That being said, soldiers are notoriously bad at taking care of implied tasks necessary to meet those benchmarks and often do not use their white space effectively; leadership too in the case of the latter. We all understand there are last minute suspenses that come down (because upper echelons similarly failed in their planning process or meet their own time hacks) but a lot of the wasted time and late nights could be avoided through better application of the 5 Ps and the 5th principle of patrolling

2020-02-20T13:55:19-05:00 2020-02-20T13:55:19-05:00 SGM Bill Frazer 5581473

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You do understand that sometimes, the CoC decides to hold an O call or supervisors call at like 1600, particularity at BN/Bde. So what there is a major change in the works for tomorrow- many units will hold the troops to get the word out, only to find it was a bitch session, but too late. Hard call for the CoC.I always worked my troops till the job was done or a point were I thought it was no longer productive. You are not paid for 8 hr days, and 1700 is a guide line only. Want to go home at 1700- join the USAF they have mandatory crew rest for some of their MOS&#39;s, or the USN which works purely shifts at sea.

2020-02-20T14:42:27-05:00 2020-02-20T14:42:27-05:00 SFC Stephen P. 5581821

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>From a market perspective, it is the result of a 3rd party payer.<br />The dismissing authority pays exactly the same ($0) if the employees are released early or late. <br /><br />As all soldiers are salaried and ineligible for overtime, there is no push from higher to reduce labor costs.<br /><br />The unpredictable nature of the military duty day (probably resultant from the near absolute authority granted to commanders) gives subordinate leaders incentive to keep staff on hand to deal with contingencies.<br /><br />The only reason you would dismiss early is to maintain morale; it&#39;s a shame how many leaders undervalue morale.

2020-02-20T16:50:39-05:00 2020-02-20T16:50:39-05:00 SPC Richard Zacke 5582714

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="1203948" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/1203948-88m-motor-transport-operator-3-61-cav-2nd-ibct">SSG Private RallyPoint Member</a> isn&#39;t that where the saying &quot;Hurry up and wait!!&quot; came from?

2020-02-20T22:17:22-05:00 2020-02-20T22:17:22-05:00 GySgt Kenneth Pepper 5585216

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It is simply piss poor leadership. Leaders (?) who are more concerned about how it may look than the morale of their troops. There will be enough times when we will really need to work extra hours. Take advantage when the opportunity arises to sound the liberty bell and get your guys out early.<br />I used to love to play &quot;last person to the door has to stay until 1600.&quot;

2020-02-21T14:51:24-05:00 2020-02-21T14:51:24-05:00 LTJG Stephanie Thompson 5586175

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Oh, the woes of &quot;hurry up and wait,&quot; among others. It seems to me that this happens frequently due to a lack of organization and confidence on behalf of the person in charge. That person is generally not organized, so either didn&#39;t give everyone a complete list of the day&#39;s tasks, or doesn&#39;t actually know what should be done. They don&#39;t want to get caught later by their own superiors with a question they can&#39;t personally answer (lack of confidence), so they keep everybody on &quot;standby&quot; with no direction of what to stand by for or how to be productive in the interim. They don&#39;t feel they can leave until later, so as not to look like a skater, and feel it will reflect negatively on them if they let their people go early, regardless of whether they actually have work to do. <br /><br />This is frustrating for everybody, including the person(s) responsible for the mess. They want to be able to report that the day&#39;s work got done in so timely a manner that they were able to let everybody go home early (or even just on time), but they either don&#39;t really know what work needs to be done or don&#39;t know what it looks like when it IS done, so the workers end up languishing the hours away. The triad (within the division, for instance) is not communicating with one another, but instead talks about each others incompetencies behind each other&#39;s back, never acknowledging that all three play a role in how the division is run and how it affects each junior servicemember. The people in charge are not taking responsibility and so the cycle continues.

2020-02-21T19:34:53-05:00 2020-02-21T19:34:53-05:00 MAJ Keira Brennan 5586779

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I served from 1987 - 2012. I remember late evenings at DIVARTY not tooo far from Custer Hill, 1ID where my 1SG would have the HQ Company there on a Friday night til 2000hrs doing ash and trash detail work. As a lowly clerk sent over from 1ID G3 to help fill the pool ---I relished the fact that I got to work with the men even though it was buffing floors, filing paperwork, even on Friday, listening to ash-trash crap from haggard old turds. That&#39;s the Peacetime Army. Been that way since there&#39;s been Army&#39;s. Maybe I am to salty. Maybe I just miss being useful. Maybe I just miss buffing floors. LOL.

2020-02-22T02:43:42-05:00 2020-02-22T02:43:42-05:00 MSG Allan Davis 5592073

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Train to the standard not to the hour

2020-02-23T16:56:44-05:00 2020-02-23T16:56:44-05:00 SFC Casey O'Mally 5606571

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There is a very serious problem with the tasking cycle. The folks in the 3 shop push out a tasker late, and everyone suffers. Most of the time it is because THEY got the tasker late.<br />I spent a little bit of time in a 2-star G3 writing daily FRAGOs. Our CG&#39;s policy was that the daily FRAGO went out NLT 1500. Period. If the 3-star Command above us sent out something after 1400, it waited until tomorrow. <br />Unless it was a SIMPLE data pull (How many Soldiers do you have? What is your current barracks space? Etc.) Or a meeting tasker, all taskings had a MINIMUM of 3 day suspenses. Those that actually required thought and/or production had a minimum of 7 days. And we had FULL authority to kick back 3-star taskings and refuse to do them if the 3-star G3 didn&#39;t give us those suspenses +1 day (4 days and 8 days). We tried our hardest to prevent the &quot;somebody has to stay late&quot; and the &quot;jump through your 4th point&quot; taskers. We mostly succeeded. But ONLY because it was an expectation set by the CG and he was willing to go to bat for us against his boss. If we didn&#39;t have his support, it would have never worked. <br />Sometimes, the solution HAS to start at the top.

2020-02-27T14:51:03-05:00 2020-02-27T14:51:03-05:00 1SG Joseph Dartey 5671823

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I remember those days. When I was a GS Maintenance Support Supervisor (E-8 Master Sergeant) I released my soldiers to go home with the understanding that they are subject to recall at a moments notice and if they came back smelling of alcohol or they were impaired in any way, I would smoke them like a bad cigar. The E-7 PLT SGT told the 1SG, who came to my maintenance shop and wanted to know where all the soldiers were. I told him, and he said recall them and let&#39;s see how long it takes them to get here. 10 minutes later I had a full formation, no one was impaired or smelled of alcohol and were in full uniform. Got my butt chewed, but had the respect of my soldiers by showing them that I would take the heat.

2020-03-17T14:36:10-04:00 2020-03-17T14:36:10-04:00 SFC Mark Klaers 5692255

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The mentality of just about every unit I served with was &quot;We better keep the troops here until the last minute in case something comes up&quot;. And of course, because every other unit was gone, we were always tasked because &quot;something always comes up&quot;.

2020-03-23T09:01:08-04:00 2020-03-23T09:01:08-04:00 SPC Clayton Ellzey 5757189

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Kinda like wake up eat chow and draw weapons an be outside at 0500 to catch bus to Regiment for change of command at 1300 but bus doesn&#39;t show til 1000.<br />The world will never know

2020-04-09T12:26:43-04:00 2020-04-09T12:26:43-04:00 1SG Tommy McGee 5802503

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Staying “late” is usually piss poor planning on the command staffs part, there are some exceptions.<br />I gave my PSGs a task and purpose and sent them on their way with their soldiers. Once the task was complete the PSG would report back to me, if I didn’t have another task I would tell him to take PSG time. He could keep them or send them to the house with the understanding that they may get recalled. I had high morale and a 97% retention rate, and very few discipline problems.

2020-04-21T23:06:35-04:00 2020-04-21T23:06:35-04:00 CW2 Private RallyPoint Member 5804875

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Hate it. If its 1600 and something new comes down...it can wait for tomorrow. <br />Waiting around to clean the latrines twice then have a formation to ensure everyone wants to go home is a waste of time and part of the reason morale sucks. <br />If there&#39;s legitimate stuff to do, then absolutely do it. But don&#39;t make 80 people do nothing because 1 doesn&#39;t want to go home, or didn&#39;t do their own work.

2020-04-22T15:25:14-04:00 2020-04-22T15:25:14-04:00 CW2 Private RallyPoint Member 5804880

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>PS. The SORB is here for those who wish to minimize waiting for a clock...

2020-04-22T15:25:57-04:00 2020-04-22T15:25:57-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 6390638

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;ve seen alot more of releasing early, even if it means neglecting training or close of business duties.

2020-10-11T00:04:26-04:00 2020-10-11T00:04:26-04:00 MAJ Ken Landgren 6765972

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I told my NCOs if the soldiers have done there work. Send them home.

2021-02-21T19:25:47-05:00 2021-02-21T19:25:47-05:00 CPO Clifford Henry 7548305

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It was my experience that many supervisors used staying late to prove that they could. Notice I said supervisor and not leader. If you take care of your people, when they need to stay late they’ll know it’s for a good reason and they’ll bust their ass to get whatever needs done, done.

2022-02-28T11:15:44-05:00 2022-02-28T11:15:44-05:00 SPC Steven Depuy 7548450

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>lol, did your enlistment contract say it was a 9 - 5 job?

2022-02-28T12:34:32-05:00 2022-02-28T12:34:32-05:00 2020-02-20T05:35:43-05:00