Why do science and religion always have to be different?

2014-10-31T11:21:38-04:00

My question is from a place in my childhood where to me I thought of an idea that could combine religion and science.

Why is it that no one agrees? It's either one or the other.

Hasn't anyone ever thought that maybe science and religion are the same. Look at the bible it states the fact that earth was created in seven days. Well the bible has been said it is the word of God so why can't seven days for him be more than a millennium for us? Or even centuries?

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Oct 31 at 2014 2:41 PM

2014-10-31T14:41:21-04:00

Science teaches us to fly, religion tells us to fly into buildings.

Truth is, new knowledge always upsets the status quo. If we are able, we adapt. If we can't adapt, we fight to keep it the way we knew it.
There are scientists devout in their faith and true to science, so the two are not mutually exclusive. But for most, the cognitive dissonance won't let us pursue both at the same time.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Oct 31 at 2014 3:05 PM

2014-10-31T15:05:39-04:00

A1C,

I do not believe science and religion conflict. It is what you choose to believe, they are many things in science that are stated as factual which are actually assumptions or approximations. With as many translations and interpretations of the Bible, the seven days could mean a whole lot of different things. Just because someone tells you or teaches you something and says it is correct , does not mean it is. You need to make your own determination and not follow the 'herd' so to speak. Just because the majority believes something to be true, does not make it so.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Oct 31 at 2014 3:13 PM

2014-10-31T15:13:57-04:00

A1C Private RallyPoint Member There are some other people who think the two can co-exist.

“God is not a magician, with a magic wand”: Pope Francis schools creationists

The pontiff admits he believes in evolution and the Big Bang, says science and religion can peacefully coexist

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 31 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-10-31T15:36:05-04:00

Faith is just that. The belief in something that cannot be proven. If we make up our mind, one way or the other, we dismiss what goes against our beliefs and embrace the supporting evidence. I got it. I am a Jesus loving believer and I am proud. I believe what I believe and you can believe what you want. I never met Jesus. I am not qualified to explain how everything is the way that it is. I am not God. We have experts and scientific giants who brought us such known facts in the past as "The earth is the center of the universe".... "The earth is flat".... "Germs don't exist because they can't be seen"....."The Black Death was because we are sinners"......"The sound barrier doesn't exist".....We can do this all day. If your point is to prove that I am an idiot for believing in an invisible all wise all knowing being then there is plenty of "evidence" to have me locked up and have the key thrown away. I'll still believe what I believe. I will not fly a plane into a building. I will not kill anyone who believes differently from me. I am not a minister. I don't even go to church. I just try to live as best as I can and give God the glory. My shortcomings are my own.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 3:38 PM

2014-10-31T15:38:37-04:00

I feel they do combine in some ways. Faith teaches us to trust in the unknown while science gives us the details of that unknown. You can be wrong in science in that it is solely based off theory of studies. Some may get different results, who knows but faith is truly guidelines to saying your able I take. Religion is positive in guidance and so is science in my opinion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 4:07 PM

2014-10-31T16:07:00-04:00

Science deals in facts, things than can be proven through testing and methods. Religion on the other hand, does not need proof in order for someone to feel is the truth.

Response by LCpl Rick Ponton made Oct 31 at 2014 4:35 PM

2014-10-31T16:35:07-04:00

PROOF LOGIC FACT OR OPINION WHERE DID TIME SPACE AND MATTER AND THE MIND OF MAN COME FROM??? GOD SAID BANG AND THERE IT IS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 4:40 PM

2014-10-31T16:40:04-04:00

A1C Private RallyPoint Member - I think that is the rhetoric being taught to many these days that religions are trying to stop kids from being educated. Secondly, Religion is not Science and I as a Christian keep religion and science apart, at least in terms of defining scientific theory.

I also chafe at the notion that if you are a Christian you cannot be a scientist. This leads to a huge misunderstanding about Christians and the ability to learn.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Oct 31 at 2014 4:58 PM

2014-10-31T16:58:01-04:00

The shortest answer to your question would be simple; narrow minds. People don't like thinking that they could possibly be *gasp* wrong.
For example, I am a Christian, and I believe that the bible is the word of God. Because of that, I believe in the inerrant quality of it. God's word is perfect, but that does not mean I am interpreting it correctly. For that reason, I should keep my mind open to the fact that I can be wrong.

Science is defined as "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." That very definition explains that a true scientist is always learning. You cannot learn if you believe you are already right and have all the answers.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Oct 31 at 2014 6:16 PM

2014-10-31T18:16:23-04:00

Science and religion are not the same. One is a way to guide human conduct and one is a way to describe the physical world. Two totally different concepts with different objectives.

Politically, it is not a choice between religion and science. Remember your grade school science. Gregor Mendal was one of the first genetic researchers; he was a monk. The Catholic church discovered the problem with the old Jullian calendar and instituted the Gregorian calendar.(Astronomy) Check out This Sacred Heart Review article: http://newspapers.bc.edu/cgi-bin/bostonsh?a=d&d=BOSTONSH18920730-01.2.26 for other scientific discoveries by members of the Catholic church. Google inventions by Baptists etc. also.

The idea of dividing politics and religion originally came about here because England and other European countries had manditory state religions. Our founding fathers insisted on not having such a thing.

Today, its a more a political football stating federal money can't be used to benefit a religious organization. Its taken to extre
mes by some who say a religous school can't be part of reduced lunch programs and church leaders can't talk about political issues. Some go further to say a student can't carry a bible to school to read during reading free times, no one can wear religious medals, crosses or other items in public, etc. It is a movement to remove religious references of any kind from public view, No statues to commemorate religious leaders, no 10 commandments, no praying in public or posting a prayer or saying bless you at a high school commencement. Its PC police taking away the free speech rights of people that have a religious point of view.

Ironically, it is what Russia was before the fall of the iron curtain. As soon as their government fell, one of the first things done was clean out the old churches and have open free services again. Its what China has. Religious people have to hide and meet in secret there.

What you are seeing today in America are groups that want freedom FROM (Any) religious content.
What the Constitution did was give citizens freedom OF religious expression and association.

I follow a religious teaching.
I accept scientific studies and discoveries when done according to proper scentific procedure and practices.

The Sacred Heart Review 30 July 1892 — Boston College

Response by SSG Andrew Dydasco made Oct 31 at 2014 6:32 PM

2014-10-31T18:32:35-04:00

They don't coexist because one is based on observable evidence and the other is based on belief with the lack of evidence.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 7:34 PM

2014-10-31T19:34:34-04:00

Well, the Pope agrees...

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Nov 1 at 2014 10:40 AM

2014-11-01T10:40:53-04:00

It could have been six days like He said. He rested on the seventh. The theory of evolution is just that; a theory. Most of it has been scientifically disproven so that in fact it can no longer be consider red a theory. The math just doesn't add up and math is the mother of science

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 2 at 2014 6:50 AM

2014-11-02T06:50:22-05:00

Divine intervention vs. human discovery, hmmm... Most of what we consider science is purely theoretical, proven on paper only, yet we affirm it as truth and gospel.
Has anyone traveled through a worm hole or at the speed of light? Has anyone found the definitive evidence of how humans came to being? Does Earth have a true biological clock that tells us how old our planet is? Are science and religion really that different? IMHO they are merely different theories & points of view of the event in question.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 6:52 AM

2014-11-02T06:52:51-05:00

Science and religion don't conflict with each other. In fact, nowhere in science is God or religion even a factor. Science explains HOW, without caring about the WHY. The WHY is up to you to decide.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 10:30 AM

2014-11-02T10:30:30-05:00

This is a simple answer. The answer is Yes and No.

Yes would be easily explained as some scientific discoveries are know as being miraculous. To some they simply can not comprehend what happened and explain it as a miracle. This is rare as many in the past, biblical, era were not exposed to new technology but only new logic.

And No. If you were to analyze religion and turn a miracle into scientific explanation you will take away the miracle of it all.

An example of this would be if someone is cured of Cancer via chemotherapy. If you were religious you would thank God for the miracle of ridding yourself of cancer. If you were not religious you would thank the Doctor that was administrating the chemotherapy.

Even further back, if you were to look at most religious texts you can apply science to it. Carbon dating does not sync with Bible. If you have to reach to make an explanation you are missing the point. Then yet again we are use science to alter just about anything. We are capable to cloning a human and alter the world.

They can never be the same. The Bible even states it.

then I saw all that God has done. No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all their efforts to search it out, no one can discover its meaning. Even if the wise claim they know, they cannot really comprehend it. -Ecclesiastes 8:17

How great is God--beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out. -Job 36:26

It can be best summed up with this

Ecclesiastes 1:13
I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind!

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Nov 2 at 2014 10:46 AM

2014-11-02T10:46:13-05:00

"Well the bible has been said it is the word of God so why can't seven days for him be more than a millineum for us? Or even centuries?"
-- This is an example of religious authorities using hand-wavium to explain logical inconsistencies that don't match up with what science has said.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 11:38 AM

2014-11-02T11:38:53-05:00

**************CAUTION: PHYSIOLOGICAL NUDITY********************
Thomas Jefferson was one of our founding fathers and this was his point of view on reason along with other founding fathers. It does run counter to what we may have been led to believe.

Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Nov 2 at 2014 8:53 PM

2014-11-02T20:53:48-05:00

A1C Private RallyPoint Member, modern science has its roots in the religious tradition of seeking out truth.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 5:28 AM

2014-11-03T05:28:06-05:00

Science asks why the stick in the water seems to be bent. Religion asks why is it there? Spiritually speaking that is...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 9:39 AM

2014-11-03T09:39:35-05:00

First: The two are not mutually exclusive.
Second: Science and the discoveries therein are what we use to understand the physical nature of the Universe and the world around us. God is not Physical. However, Jesus was when he was on Earth in the flesh and he did experience things the way we do.
Third: We humans experience time in a linear fashion. Because God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent, He experiences time in a different fashion. One that we cannot explain because God is not physical or linear.

MAJ Carl Ballinger does this cover it?

Response by CPT Urriolagoitia (Rio) Miner made Nov 3 at 2014 12:29 PM

2014-11-03T12:29:33-05:00

I'm so with you on this. Science is the observation, recording, and eventual understanding of the natural world. Just because we figure out how God designed the world to operate doesn't preclude his existance...even when it comes to age of the earth, evolution, etc...

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Nov 3 at 2014 5:18 PM

2014-11-03T17:18:00-05:00

A day to god is a thousand of our years. I think science and religion can exist together. Both require a measure of faith. I think we as humans want all the answers to the universe and science and religion attempt to answer those.

The problem is, many use science as a religion in the sense they use it to explain away religion. Many philosophers, both religious and non-religious have debated the existence of God, and creation. Both can only agree that it takes a measure of faith to believe their points of view.

Neither science or religion can prove or disprove their own theories. It all boils down to faith and what we choose to believe. I choose to believe in God as the creator of all. I do not have all the answers, but then neither do scientists. they rely greatly on theory and hypothesis, and we all know that theories change.

I consider the universe, and everything I see. There is too much perfect order for things to have happened accidentally. Consider people, even though there are many basic similarities, no two are the same. Tress, other animals are the same way.

Science and religion can co-exist, there are many scientists that study science and find that science proves the existence of design. After that, it comes down to faith, which scientist or data set does on choose to believe.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 3 at 2014 5:39 PM

2014-11-03T17:39:40-05:00

I actually disagree with your statement. I think science and religion are very compatible. I do find that many who claim to believe is science disregard their own observations of God’s existence because they ignore much of the proof right in front of them. You will find a lot of scientist converting to Christianity after trying to prove that God does not exist. I think if you look at all the things that had to happen for life to exist on Earth and think that it is random, you are being disingenuous at best. So if it is not random, there has to be a plan, if there is a plan, there has to be a planner or Creator. So what do we call this Creator?
If you look closely at the science, the data can come closer to proving that there is a God than it can to proving there is not a God, BUT as close as it can come to proving there is a God, it always comes up a little short. I believe that this too is planned. That the Creator created a system where in the end, WE have to make step of faith.

Response by PO1 John Pokrzywa made Nov 3 at 2014 7:01 PM

2014-11-03T19:01:26-05:00

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. If you pay attention, the Bible never even saysthe earth is 7 days old. It actually says "In the beginning, the earth was without form and void, and waters covered the face of the earth..." so it could have existed for a week, or for millennia, before the "first day". Nor does the bible proclaim itself a physics or biology text, it doesn't even say evolution does or doesn't happen.
So, there's room for both.
My opinion.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 1:29 PM

2014-11-04T13:29:00-05:00

Personally, I believe that perfect Science and perfect Religion will end up being the same thing. Science and Religion are both working on the same puzzle, they just simply started in different places. And each side has been thrown pieces that don't fit, but certain members of both camps are still trying to force their red herrings into the puzzle because they like the way they look. The fact remains that the universe functions. Period. Eventually when all the questions are answered, all will know the all-important how's and why's. And science and Religion will be reconciled.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 7:42 PM

2014-11-04T19:42:06-05:00

I think you should change your post to "Why does science and the bible have to always be different?"

The reason is your basing your theory on the bible and the bible alone which is less than 1/5th of the worlds population belief.

If you would like to include the other 4/5th and their accumulated documentation, then you could state the word religion and have an accurate question.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 11:50 AM

2014-12-05T11:50:33-05:00

A1C Private RallyPoint Member There will always be radical elements from both sides of the debate that will refuse to acknowledge the merits of each other's arguments.

Science and Religion compliment each other and are not mutually exclusive. I personally believe that if more people could come to this realization, then we would be taking a first step in reaching a level of civility and tolerance in this age old debate.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 10:19 AM

2014-12-22T10:19:08-05:00

I disagree that they are the same thing, because...they aren't. Science deals with observed world (sight, sound, touch, etc.). Religion deals with the unobserved world (spirituality, metaphysics, etc.). Do they both cross over onto each other? Yes, sometimes.

So, I disagree that they are the same, but I do agree that they can (and are) compatible.

Science speaks to the natural world and things that are observed through our senses, that I believe God made and gave us, and that we process through our minds. I also believe that God gave us our minds and our ability to use reason and logic. We should feel free to use these things when observing the world that he created.

Science focuses more on the "how" than the "why."

Since I believe God is the Creator of All, our observations of this world and our comprehension of his written Scripture should line up, because God, is all-knowing. The Bible IMO (and, essentially, all religions), focuses on the "why."

Most of these religions are pre-scientific---especially the old ones.

Today we are scientific. That's where the issue comes in---with modern people trying to force their scientific views on pre-scientific writings. This happens from proponents of religion and those who are proponents of science. Again, it doesn't have to be an either/or, it can (and should be) a both/and type of relationship between the two.

If there is an error in either, it's because of man's flawed thinking and understanding---not because the two are actually in different realms.

This is especially true for those who are proponents of a literal creation story in Genesis (Christian Bible) and those who are proponents of the fossil record or an evolutionist type of thinking (non-literal Genesis interpretation).

Religious adherents and science adherents are both dogmatic about their positions and try to use one side to disprove the other. The issue isn't in the science or religion, but in their non-compatible worldviews. One argues from a non-theistic position, while the other argues from a theistic one.

I am religious person who loves science. I don't really feel torn between the two, or like I have to chose one over the other, at all.

I know most of what I posted has already been said...but I love talking about this discussion with people, because it interests me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 12:04 PM

2014-12-22T12:04:46-05:00

One of the sub-definitions of Science is 'knowledge', and we know that God is omni-scient...so God is ALL-knowing, or ALL-Science. Without God, there would be no Science, or any matter (including humans) to observe or study.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Dec 30 at 2014 6:25 AM

2014-12-30T06:25:43-05:00

This isn't really a military question, but its a good one. My post-military career is as an environmental scientist, and I actually wrote a paper on this topic.

The OP's implication is that science and religion must be at odds. Not true. Science deals with the portion of our lives that is observable and testable. Religions (all of them) deal with faith in the portion of our existence that is neither observable nor testable.

Pope John Paul II offered this (among many) quotes detailing this symbiotic relatiolnship:

"Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes."

A well rounded person accepts that some ideas may be substantiated via the scientific process, while others must simply be believed as a matter of their faith. These things are rarely mutually exclusive.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 12:50 PM

2014-12-30T12:50:22-05:00

My simple take

Faith: beliefs, cannot be quantified or have assigned value.

Science: attempts to quantify everything. Will forever come closer to faith, but will never reach it.

To bridge the two disciplines is to understand that those two will never cross and live out the rest of our numbered days on this planet with respectful and humble attitude.

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Dec 30 at 2014 2:56 PM

2014-12-30T14:56:11-05:00

A1C Private RallyPoint Member There's a very small, but very loud, group of people--on both sides of the so-called "religion debate"--who are of the opinion that science and religion are diametrically opposed to each other. Most people, even devoutly religious people, understand that the Bible is not a science text book, nor does it pretend to be one.

Nor does that concession mean that it isn't true. But, and I'm going to borrow from Pilate here, though not as sarcastically: what is truth? Are true facts derived solely from the laboratory? Of course not. There is such a thing as philosophical truth. Once that definition is spelled out, it's not a very big leap to understand that what it is that am empirical scientist is setting out to do and what a religious person is setting out to do are two different things.

Now, with that said, as well, it is worth noting, too, that the scientist does not venture out into the world of scientific process without an assumption of faith, specifically that the world is, in fact, know-able. The scientist bases his entire process on the assumption that there is, without exception, an explanation to the question he has. That is an utterly unscientific conclusion to reach. There is no way to prove or test that theory. However, it does speak to a particular Abrahamic belief that God Created the universe with intelligence, meaning that there is order and there are explanations. In the Christian philosophical tradition, we look to the beginning of the Gospel of John for the source of this: "In the beginning there was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." The Greek (the original language that John was written in) for 'word' is "logos," from which we also get the word "logic."

Getting back to your original question, though: religion and science are not opposed to each other. Something that occurred to me once while having the never ending "evolution" discussion with an atheist (I for the record am Catholic) was that asking someone if they believed what is written in the Bible or (exclusive or, that is) do they believe that science is true is rather like asking someone: "Do you use premium gas in your car, or do you like to drink chocolate milk?" as if the person couldn't pump the premium gas and then walk into the gas station convenience store to buy a bottle of chocolate milk. The two choices are not mutually exclusive in the manner that some would like to believe.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jun 8 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-06-08T12:45:59-04:00

So when you hear the words God created the world in seven days, you think he ment a 24 hour day? A billion years to God is just a blink of an eye.