Why do most units have Soldiers stay awake 24 hours during CQ and Staff Duty instead of letting one be awake and one take a nap?

2016-05-30T21:22:12-04:00

Response by SGT Laura Delgadillo made May 30 at 2016 9:32 PM

2016-05-30T21:32:25-04:00

I'm curious about this question. I've had different experiences depending on the NCO, but most of the time policy says no sleeping. I'm wondering if perhaps it's one of those old "traditions" that bo one changes because they had to deal with it when they were jr enlisted.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 30 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-05-30T21:36:26-04:00

The BDE/Bn official policy while I was a 1SG was NO SLEEPING while on SD/CQ.
The unofficial policy in my company and for my SM was, get the job done.....see you in the morning.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 30 at 2016 9:37 PM

2016-05-30T21:37:04-04:00

The most simple answer is this. First, the CQ as well as the SDNCO is NOT supposed to sit on the Fourth Point of Contact all night. The CQ/SDNCO is supposed to make rounds checking the security of everything within the limits of his post, including the Arms Room, Supply Room and Motorpool. Second, if one is asleep on "His Shift" and the other falls asleep, then no one is on duty. It is only one night, if you think about it, how many nights do you stay out till 0300 or 0400 at a party or club. It is not a question of Why, it is a question of why are you asking.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 30 at 2016 9:39 PM

2016-05-30T21:39:02-04:00

I've been in units that allow someone to be on duty and sleep, so long as the phone or an alarm would wake them up.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 30 at 2016 9:56 PM

2016-05-30T21:56:32-04:00

Interesting, I never heard of any Navy Position that required you to stay awake for 24 hours. 4 hrs as OOD. Maybe someone awake overnight 8 hrs Barracks PO. My Duty Day war 24 hours but I was only OOD for 4 hours.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made May 30 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-05-30T22:24:14-04:00

Evidently because the Army has made worse decisions generally in this case than the Marine Corps?

Sleep plans seem like an obvious consideration if you want an effective Duty Officer and Duty NCO.

Response by SGT Jesse Davis made May 30 at 2016 11:22 PM

2016-05-30T23:22:16-04:00

Personally when I was an e-1 at my first duty station , I almost always had a nice nco who would let the runner get a couple hours of rest late at night. Normally wasn't an issue because they normally live in the barracks. So when I became a Sgt. I also let the runner rack out for a few after I did my checks but only for an hour or two and if he left his phone on. I understand why there is a need for 2 at all times but also think an hour or two shouldn't be an issue as long as its the runner is sleeping and not the Nco. They use to allow us to watch tv and play games after hours to pass time but they put a stop to that sometime after our deployment due to people being balls deep into a movie and not paying attention to a joe sneaking a married/or underage woman into the barracks.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 11:24 PM

2016-05-30T23:24:09-04:00

That's a good question. I was active duty in Germany during the end of the cold war. Alerts were a part of life and happened at least 5 times a year for my Battalion. Yet, the CQ/Runner team was encouraged to break each other for an hour or two of shut eye. The only sitpulaton was both had to be awake until 11pm and by 5am.

I don't see any reason for units to have 24 hours straight. The last time I did a 24 hour duty was guard duty on a training FOB during AT. I did not understand that either. When I was in Germany, we rotated 4 hours guard shifts and slept in the bunkhouse near the gate.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made May 31 at 2016 1:30 AM

2016-05-31T01:30:06-04:00

Because there is no other way for the NCO to teach the Runner how to play cribbage.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 3:13 AM

2016-05-31T03:13:07-04:00

So they learn to answer board questions when their minds are not working. I admit that isn't a good answer. It used to be necessary for alerts and Red Cross messages. Smart phones have removed most of the necessity. I think every command needs to ask if it still makes sense for their unit.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made May 31 at 2016 6:10 AM

2016-05-31T06:10:27-04:00

I did it. I enforced it. With CQ I think it is a waste of time for them both to be awake 24hrs. The Runner needs to be available to take over for the CQ when the CQ goes and does the check on the Motor pool and arms room and barracks, but other than that they should be allowed to doze. but if you give them time to sleep, d they really deserve the next day off? lol

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 6:40 AM

2016-05-31T06:40:10-04:00

I sleep on SD all he time. 0200-0445/0500. My runner sleeps either before or after. Reason being is he has to walk to his barracks room, I have a 30 minute drive.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 7:10 AM

2016-05-31T07:10:24-04:00

When I was enlisted the policy was that the runner slept while the NCO kept watch. While on rear detachment in Germany I had to flip the condition due to companies sending runners without driver's license.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 7:19 AM

2016-05-31T07:19:25-04:00

Because, if there is an emergency that requires the NCO to be pulled away, there's no time to wake up the runner. Also, if either person needs to go smoke, take a whiz or grab some chow, there's someone there to cover down. It's the same with guard duty while deployed. It's the Battle Buddy system that is in place for a reason and from experience. As an NCO, if it's a quiet night (like tonight... I happen to be on CQ right now, coincidentally) then I will give my runner a 3 or 4 hour break to take a nap, but they have to have their phone next to them in case I need them to cover down. I, personally, never take naps/breaks during shift because, honestly, I don't trust any Soldiers with my career. All I need is for them to nod off and the CSM to catch them and ask me, where were you? I've worked too hard for these chevrons to trust them to a Soldier... No offense Joe's!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 7:19 AM

2016-05-31T07:19:48-04:00

Response by 1SG Thomas Ponder made May 31 at 2016 7:29 AM

2016-05-31T07:29:08-04:00

Man if you have to ask a question like this you don't even need to be on duty of any kind...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 7:38 AM

2016-05-31T07:38:45-04:00

Well, SGT Matthew "NOT GOOSE" Gosnell. It depends where you go boss. You know at Carson our BDE Policy was to get at least 2 hours of Sleep each to include the SDNCO and runners. Also here in TRADOC land it literally says in TR 350-6 the CQ NCO is encouraged to sleep. One more time ENCOURAGED. So really depends on who's running the circus you perform in. And I miss you musk.

Response by SGT Shawn Schweinberg made May 31 at 2016 7:55 AM

2016-05-31T07:55:44-04:00

It's all about security and having at all times a runner and one to guard the post. If someone is napping it can slow down calling an alert or reporting an issue. Or dealing with an emergency.

With that said I hated duty as much as anyone. But when 9-11 happened and all units around the world went to threat con delta I saw how the duty soldiers were used and needed. It opened my eyes to it being a system that worked well when needed.

Response by 1SG Billye Jackson made May 31 at 2016 8:12 AM

2016-05-31T08:12:49-04:00

What Concerns me MOST is the Commits by NCO's On this.

Response by SSG Matthew Hamrick made May 31 at 2016 8:20 AM

2016-05-31T08:20:05-04:00

Because that's the policy.

Response by SFC Kevin Barlow made May 31 at 2016 8:20 AM

2016-05-31T08:20:35-04:00

In my 25 years of service I have found that the units with a little wisdom DO allow one to nap while the other is awake and is written in their SOP. The problem comes when the one that's supposed to be awake is also asleep. The NCOIC usually let's his driver/ runner sleep first and they basically take a short power nap.

Response by SGT Josh Suchoski made May 31 at 2016 8:59 AM

2016-05-31T08:59:50-04:00

its good training for deployments when you get 2 hrs of sleep a night and run constant missions/ guard shifts. You get comp time to sleep the next day anyway. You can sleep when your dead.

Response by SFC Robert Alsup made May 31 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-05-31T09:01:49-04:00

With all the talk about safety, you have a Soldier or NCO stay awake for over 24 hours then get behind the wheel of a car and drive home. I always let the Soldier get some sleep and then the officer and myself would trade off sleeping. It made no sense to have 3 people awake for 24 hours!

Response by MSG Carlos LeMarie made May 31 at 2016 9:02 AM

2016-05-31T09:02:03-04:00

The question is why? Hard question but legit. I am looking from a soldier prospective and a leader. Weekends are 24 hours, weekdays are 17 give or take. CQ in the unit and SD in a BN or BDE unit are different, but can be executed the same. It is a responsibility of being able to react in case of emergency. Soldiers are sleeping or in a relax mode. They are there to be alert and protect. I seen cases where they did not react quickly enough. It also prepares you for field duty, specially when you have to pull guard duty during peace time training, but when you are in a danger zone it can be a life or death situation. When I was going up the ranks there was no sleeping or napping. I seen NCO's and soldiers get busted in rank or Article 15. If you cannot function during 17 or 24 hours of duty, hmmm. Discipline is needed at all levels. With all that said it is up to the command how they run it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 9:02 AM

2016-05-31T09:02:48-04:00

Always the point I would make when doing TRiPs for leave. Why is it I must say I'm getting 8 hours of sleep prior to going on leave but the Army has no problem with me driving home after being up for 24 or more hours on Staff Duty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 9:03 AM

2016-05-31T09:03:59-04:00

I'm going to throw an addition to this question. What do you think of starting Staff Duty/CQ at 0900hrs on a week day and still making the Soldier and NCO come to Accountability and PRT training?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 9:04 AM

2016-05-31T09:04:09-04:00

Ha! Staff Duty in my old unit in Hawaii meant you got a cell phone, leave log, and keys for a week. You had to do all your normal checks like everywhere else, but you went home every night. Staff Duty shift change would sometimes happen through the window of your car. Just all depends on what unit your in.

Response by SGT Michael McKeown made May 31 at 2016 9:07 AM

2016-05-31T09:07:41-04:00

When I was in German in 1990-1992, they finally got rid of CQ. When I came back to CONUS, thye still had it. I cannot believe they still have CQ. What I thought was idiotic until they changed in Germany, was puling CQ from 0800 on a Tuesday till 0800 Wednesday, and then you had to go do Sergeant's Time until noon! So essentially you were up 30 hours and did not get that day off. I could not understand that if I am in an overseas unit, they eliminated CQ but kept it stateside. I guess 9-11 changed all that

Response by SGT Lisa Anderson made May 31 at 2016 9:13 AM

2016-05-31T09:13:19-04:00

Every unit I was assigned to usually the CQ let the runner nap. It's called looking after your men. Besides no sense in us both being delirious

Response by SFC Michael Milller made May 31 at 2016 9:20 AM

2016-05-31T09:20:20-04:00

I have read all the post about this question and the way I see it if you have duty then do your duty and be done with it. When in war and you have guard duty and you are protecting your buddies who are asleep and if I caught asleep you don't have to worry about any disciplinary actions I would shoot you myself.

Response by MSG Jerry O'Rourke made May 31 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-05-31T09:37:33-04:00

CQ is your boots on the ground response for any issue that may arise. An SOP dictates policy a line by line log of what is required throughout this duty period. A good staff duty NCO or Officer will stop in some time during their tour of duty to relieve the CQ and the runner for a short eye break. Since the SOP drives the requirements an annual review of this document can reflect the current policies that need to be changed. Each units mission also sets the stage for the man hours required for CQ and the hours involved in completing this tour of duty.

Response by PFC Joseph . Sheffield made May 31 at 2016 9:39 AM

2016-05-31T09:39:38-04:00

Because it is your job especially in the army when I was in lol

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 9:53 AM

2016-05-31T09:53:33-04:00

Great question! I've also wondered this and have had heard the same comments and debates that are happening on this thread. I'll just link to an article that leaders might want to read to get some insight into the effects of sleep and how the Army is currently looking at the issue.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/army-tells-soldiers-to-sleep_us_5714ff1be4b0018f9cba81b8

The Army Tells Its Soldiers To Get Some Sleep

Its leaders are looking to improve troops' performance -- and reduce deaths.

Response by SPC Charles Slininger made May 31 at 2016 9:55 AM

2016-05-31T09:55:56-04:00

One Word: ACCOUNTABILITY

Response by PFC Justin Graf made May 31 at 2016 9:59 AM

2016-05-31T09:59:02-04:00

I used to have to pull 24 hour duty driver at least twice a week. I volunteered for it. Its mostly quiet, which i liked, gave me alot of time to get to know my battles on more of a personal note. Look at it this way. You're on CQ and PVT fuckface comes at you with a personal problem. You handle it in a specific manner meant for that private only. He comes back in 8 hours and the problem is worse. Now since you want to switch cq, the new desk sgt has no fucking clue what this kids problem is and no way of knowing how the prior sgt handled it. if you rotate every 4 hours, yes, you get more sleep, but theres more work involved. that sgt has to go over the last 4 hours of garbage, thats hes gunna skim through to get it done and over. If your on a 12/24, you got time to actually pay attention to the paperwork in front of you, and not rush things. Plus there's always the benefit of no pt that day...

Response by 1SG William T. Wade III made May 31 at 2016 10:03 AM

2016-05-31T10:03:57-04:00

Because stupidity never rests is a short answer. Units do it differently. Some let them split time sleeping, others require them to both stay up all night, others have only one person on duty, and they sleep by the phone on a cot. I don't think there is one good answer.

The best I have come up with is there needs to be people awake at the Co/Bn/BDE areas in the case of an emergency. Hopefully, they have a long boring night, but just in case...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 10:29 AM

2016-05-31T10:29:55-04:00

Someone has to be at the phone at all times in the event of an emergency call (red cross message), greet the upper echelon duty or commander, or be ready to call for assistance when the other person does their rounds.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 10:31 AM

2016-05-31T10:31:10-04:00

Good question. Anyone with a logical answer is getting my vote for president.

Response by PFC John Villarreal made May 31 at 2016 10:45 AM

2016-05-31T10:45:41-04:00

Why is this a question? Back when I was in the Army, we had 41 hour days, 9 day weeks, 14 month years and 15 year decades and we were damn happy to have those. We used to get up in the morning at 10:30, a half hour before we went to bed and train for 27 hours a day. We had 4 story barracks without stairs, we climbed ropes up and repelled down. Our 4 mile runs were 10 miles long. We didn't have Mobile Flexes, when it rained, we just looked up and God would move the rain to another area. We had MARE's not those fancy MRE's you guys get. (Meals All Ready Eaten). No ammo, ha! We shaped rocks to the appropriate 5.56 or 7.62 mm and made own gunpowder as well as made the brass from wood. No rifle, no problem, we would weave one out of whatever foliage that was handy. We didn't need to blend into the terrain, we made the terrain blend into us. Boots...... luxury, we were issued calluses and polished our feet with the ground up souls of our enemies. And you complain about a 24 hour shift on CQ....

Response by SFC Hector Sanjurjo made May 31 at 2016 10:56 AM

2016-05-31T10:56:44-04:00

The CQ/SDNCO Detail is directed by Unit SOP. The original intent was to provide a watchful eye for Fires (along with a QRF to extinguish them), to deter or prevent theft of individual and unit equipment, to notify unit personnel of Family Emergencies after Duty Hours, and to act as Unit Commander/1SG or CSM after Duty Hours in their absence. It is a Guard Duty Function. It is a Tradition. The answer to most questions like this: "Because you're in the Army".

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis Pannetta made May 31 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-05-31T11:13:56-04:00

When you are in a battle zone, you don't really have time sleep. Not really anyways. So having a CQ/SD stay awake for 24hrs, that is part of their Army training. That starts in basic training during fire guard duty. You make your rounds every 30mins to an hour. If you are the last person to pull that duty and you are also the one who flipps the lights on with your drill sargent, you DO NOT get to go to sleep. You are the lucky one who gets up a 0200 or 0300 and gets to stay awake for the rest of the morning and day and into the evening hours to train. Same holds true in permant party. If you are the lucky one to have CQ/SD, then you have to make your rounds and guard your company. Falling asleep is in poor habit. You do not want to give your enemy an opening for attack. Staying awake for 24hrs is training for the day you deploy to a war zone. And a company always has 2 soldiers on duty. Your question is kinda silly if you really think about it. I know I have been out for over 20yrs, but I pretty sure that policy will NEVER change.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-05-31T11:41:38-04:00

Same reason why a driver, and assistant driver stay awake during movement. Redundancy for emergency situations, as a measure of security, for accountability. If you have been in an active duty situation there are building checks, door security checks, and situations that require someone to be at the CQ desk while the other soldier goes to the BN, or BDE. Officers don't get to go home after their duties as OD. They have to do a 36 to 40 hour duty day.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made May 31 at 2016 11:43 AM

2016-05-31T11:43:52-04:00

It is in the name "Charge of quarters'. You don't leave security up to one man till you get down to squad level or somewhere below. With SD and CQ you always have one and then a "runner". This ensures one persons is always there (and awake) and the other can leave the area if required. The two soldier can swap positions , but still you always need two so one can run and they got to stay awake.

Though in reality it was not uncommon late at night for one to "nap" somewhere, and the other be at the desk, and maybe swap out. Not reg, but the army has its own "lee-way". As long as you can maintain the certainty 1 person is there and awake , all is well. Lord help the two if they are both sleeping at the desk and TOP or Smash decides to make a late night visit, or worse something happens like a fire. Though depending on the people and the circumstances Top/Smash finding people asleep, could be far worse than any fire or natural disaster

Response by SSG Marlon Clark made May 31 at 2016 11:52 AM

2016-05-31T11:52:43-04:00

Aside from napping, I have always had concerns with the 24 hour shift. How vigilant do you expect someone to be near that 20th hour of being awake?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 12:08 PM

2016-05-31T12:08:22-04:00

Why have those duties period? Lol they should create a MOS to handle that mess

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 12:11 PM

2016-05-31T12:11:16-04:00

As a specialist I was called in to check on our network for a late night Video Conference call to Iraq, and had came in early 2:30am ish, and found the E7 and 2 specialists racked out at BDE CQ. I had to as a lower enlisted wake them up putting all of them at parade rest and inform them that there was going to be a dozen soldiers coming in shortly.

Short answer is most soldiers are not capable of staying at up 24 hours without somebody to help them stay up.

Response by SP5 Roberta Sanchez made May 31 at 2016 12:23 PM

2016-05-31T12:23:11-04:00

I never understand that policy. At least in my unit, barring an emergency, I had the next day off.

Response by SGT William Shelton made May 31 at 2016 12:26 PM

2016-05-31T12:26:31-04:00

We weren't allowed to sleep on cq or staff duty but when there's an nco and 2 runners from the hours of 0000 to 0400 id let my runners nap as long as one was awake as I have sleep issues so was able to stay up the whole time but no sense in my runners risking a car crash heading home from a 24hr duty

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made May 31 at 2016 12:39 PM

2016-05-31T12:39:41-04:00

Sgt, it for an emergency situation but it up to the to the CQ if they want to take day nap

Response by SSG Jason Logue made May 31 at 2016 12:42 PM

2016-05-31T12:42:24-04:00

For CQ, if Soldier lived in the barracks, I'd let them take off you their barracks room for about an hour. Any longer than that, they're nonfunctional. As for me, I was always a night owl and would stay awake the whole night. For SD, the day room was in ear shot of the SD desk. I'd let Soldiers rest for the same amount of time or less. I never had an issue calling for them and them not being back to the desk in about 3 minutes.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made May 31 at 2016 1:14 PM

2016-05-31T13:14:57-04:00

I could never sleep, the thing to have something going wrong if I felt sleep kept me awake, from a private to an NCO, I have to much pride, even now after retiring back in 1998, If I am doing guard for someone, I could not fall sleep. I was Infantry, and in my head you do as you think you should. I was told by officers to go to sleep, I just couldn't. Any other infantry man out there that thinks different from this, I just don't now.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 1:17 PM

2016-05-31T13:17:09-04:00

Because the Army has stupid rules.....

Response by 1SG Rick Clouse made May 31 at 2016 1:19 PM

2016-05-31T13:19:43-04:00

This cant be a serious question.

Response by 1SG Rick Clouse made May 31 at 2016 1:28 PM

2016-05-31T13:28:40-04:00

This cant be a serious question; just get the mission completed, no matter how (get it?).

Response by SPC John Louiso made May 31 at 2016 2:29 PM

2016-05-31T14:29:40-04:00

So they don't miss the "adult movies" at 0300!

Response by SFC Everett Ward made May 31 at 2016 2:47 PM

2016-05-31T14:47:50-04:00

The NCO on duty could make that call.

Response by SSG Ronald White made May 31 at 2016 3:03 PM

2016-05-31T15:03:31-04:00

Thats the new Army for you cant seem to follow or see the importance of the discipline it takes to perform your duty. Not only does it hold true to what some of the NCOs are saying as to the why but it is also practice for when you need to perform that same task. Just quit your whimpering whining and do the Freaking job.... Some of you other NCOs should be shot for adopting your own rules for freaking sleep patterns, its because of actions like that you get questioning NCOs as to why do we have to do that? Why cant we sleep? and why cant we do what ever the hell we want the way we want? Why do we all have to wear the same uniforms? why do we have to get hair cuts..... Why? Why? Why? Sergeant suck it up and drive on and teach your subordinate to do the same thing. You dont bitch when you stay out all night drinking do you? Self serving are we? If you cant figure it out then make up a logical reason that you can configure to a combat situation or an emergency. I tell you many of soldiers were glad that the emergency phone call came in and it was me who answered it because by the time I got done they were on the first flight home taking care of family.. I can give you a million reasons why not but I would much rather stick with the one Why the Hell Not!!! are we really having this discussion? Geez, thank Goodness I retired.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-05-31T15:19:55-04:00

Depends on the Company Sop My company is One NCO and One Soldier but when I was on AirCav was Two soldiers One Nco

Response by SFC Terri Will made May 31 at 2016 3:27 PM

2016-05-31T15:27:04-04:00

Really? I pulled duty at a few different locations and we were able to switch off with the naps.

Response by SPC(P) Warren Soriano made May 31 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-05-31T15:50:44-04:00

Haha, great question! To allow the CQ a choice of washers/dryers to do their laundry at 0300. This allowed the CQ the privilege of not having their clothes pulled out of said washers/dryers by waiting SM. Oh, and to learn to put english on a cue ball... I think the real torture was Motor Pool SOG. Boring... Duty driver was best.

Response by SGT Ryan Fleek made May 31 at 2016 5:06 PM

2016-05-31T17:06:38-04:00

What if one nods off while the other is down?

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made May 31 at 2016 5:07 PM

2016-05-31T17:07:42-04:00

In case of emergency both will know what is happening

Response by SSG Heriberto Velazquez made May 31 at 2016 5:18 PM

2016-05-31T17:18:16-04:00

We always got done what we needed to do early after everyone left. Then trade off napping on site as needed.

Response by SPC Sina Hawk made May 31 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-05-31T17:25:25-04:00

Did you really just ask to take a nap while on duty??? If you can't stay awake for 24 hours, you ain't going to make it when you get deployed.....suck it up buttercup

Response by MSG Don Burt made May 31 at 2016 6:18 PM

2016-05-31T18:18:17-04:00

Probably their SOP dictates that or the CO does...

Response by SGT Scott Moreland made May 31 at 2016 6:56 PM

2016-05-31T18:56:25-04:00

The reason this is done was touched on by one MSG who remarked discipline and he's right. It's training for the hardship of sleep deprivation and loss of manpower. When pulling these duties, the NCO is effectively in command of the unit in the purview of that level of command after the unit command leaves for the day or in their general absence, which includes but is definitely not limited to the safety and accountability for the sleeping soldiers, equipment, and responding to any situations. It's an NCO's job to understand this and be capable enough to adequately explain that to soldiers as the reason why. My unit put an extra twist on it: after pulling your normal day, at 1800 the CQ shift began until 1800 the following day, and if you had to drive home then it was mandatory to rack out on a cot at the unit, for safety. Being present for duty the following day was required. This was a big change from 0900 - 0900 and off the remainder of the day. Doesn't any units simulate real-world scenarios for CQ/Staff Duty these days? Arms room/NBC room breach? Missing soldier from their room or other duty post?

Response by CW2 Louis Melendez made May 31 at 2016 7:13 PM

2016-05-31T19:13:29-04:00

I honestly leave it to everybody's common sense. I know there are some whoa's out there that see this like is something out of this world but think about safety first. Specially, if is a garrison scenario.

The last thing I want is a SM involved in a car accident because he/she didn't get any time to sleep in 24+ hours. NOT EVERYBODY HAS THE SAME TOLERANCE.

Again common sense and good judgment can benefit any soldier involved on these scenarios.

Response by SPC Catherine Gascon made May 31 at 2016 7:54 PM

2016-05-31T19:54:23-04:00

I think it's because of a buddy system, there should always be 2 on duty. As I remember it, just saying❤️

Response by SGT Edward McMillan made May 31 at 2016 8:14 PM

2016-05-31T20:14:08-04:00

So that with 2 or more you keep each other awake! We had to monitor 5 radios in the field or base 24/7.

Response by SPC Paul Davis made May 31 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-05-31T20:25:24-04:00

Because the Sgt isnt going to clean HQ. The lower rank person is.THAT WAS MY EXPERIENCE. LOL

Response by SSG Jay Marchand made May 31 at 2016 8:54 PM

2016-05-31T20:54:40-04:00

Because YOUR in charge, and get the next day off. Suck it up. Take that time and be productive, work on your monthly counseling. NcOERS. Stop whinning.

Response by SFC Ron Gitzendanner made May 31 at 2016 9:16 PM

2016-05-31T21:16:54-04:00

I learned a lot of things during my career in the Army. One thing was the art of taking "cat naps", and sleeping with one eye open, so to speak. I can relax in a chair, take a short 15 minute "power nap" and get an hours worth of sleep out of it. All that has served me well in civilian life many times since. Back when I was on active duty, we didn't have cell phones, electronic readers, small computers etc etc. Staying awake one night today, would be a breeze.

Response by SGT Sean Whitenton made May 31 at 2016 9:32 PM

2016-05-31T21:32:51-04:00

I think it boils down to "we've always done it this way" as much as anything. You always here some of the old timers whine whenever any change is suggested- the whining about changing away from spit polished black leather boots was legendary. That and there are some incredibly stupid people who equate going without sleep with being tough or having discipline or some other red herring they use to justify stupid policies.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made May 31 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-05-31T21:35:43-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner…Some good answers but I think the points here are missed. First off as I recall the Army is the buddy system, even burning off a latrine is done in pairs…Secondly its part of your training, if you find yourself deployed and you are put on a night patrol out in the bad guys home territory, nobody sleeps. It is a matter of life and death…Doing CQ is all part of you Army training as is everything you will do while in uniform, yes even the most mundane duties has a purpose to train for for the ultimate mission.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 12:11 AM

2016-06-01T00:11:48-04:00

Because they want to torture us.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 12:49 AM

2016-06-01T00:49:47-04:00

Being awake for 24 hours or more is technically the same as being drunk. (Because of the sleeplessness) I see no harm in each person getting atleast 2-3 hours of sleep

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jun 1 at 2016 12:53 AM

2016-06-01T00:53:05-04:00

Soldiers don't sleep on duty----That having been said, senior NCO's and officers should schedule duty assignments with a little common sense. The decision making process isn't as good for a man who has been up 24 hours as apposed to one who has been up 12 hours. I don't care what was done in the past, times change. This isn't combat, where you have to stay awake for days on end---So, if your a leader---lead---If your a career man----hide under your desk.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 1:06 AM

2016-06-01T01:06:47-04:00

Gentelman why ask why? Simple one Sgt in charge of daily operations sick call transfers, calling MPs to get soldiers out of jail , retiring reports on incidents and accidents as well fratnaztion and verbal abuse, shit cq didn't have time to sleep at leisure or action Jackson, and 24 hrs past like nothing you where so busy, know the Cq runners did get naps,

Response by MSG Curtis Rice made Jun 1 at 2016 1:48 AM

2016-06-01T01:48:21-04:00

The number one reason is so that in the event that one of your fellow Warrior Companions went out and did something unbecoming of a Soldier, someone from the unit / BN / BDE can inform the chain and give an accurate account of what went down. Back in my day you got in trouble for sleeping on duty. Not the runner just the NCO. If you were asked to stay up all night in a club this wouldn't be an issue.

Response by SPC Steven Schoenhut made Jun 1 at 2016 1:57 AM

2016-06-01T01:57:23-04:00

When I first came in to the Army we had fire guard during basic... We used that time to fix the "kill zone" granted it was only 2 hours at a time rotating shifts so we could train during the day, it set a president for the standards at that time. When I got to my first unit the CQ was up and doing checks in the motor pool, barracks, and offices. He also made people sign in and out to visit, and enforced the curfew for visitors and noise. As the runner I was given a jar of Johnsons past wax, stripping pad and a towel.. I spent most of the night doing the office area all the way up to the CQ desk. We stopped waxing floors, stopped Ironing our uniforms and stopped shinning our boots...

Response by SPC Patrick Chandler made Jun 1 at 2016 2:01 AM

2016-06-01T02:01:45-04:00

Having integrity and discipline means doing what is right even in the absence of a superior officer or non-commissioned officer. This is what it means to be a soldier, among other things.

It has nothing to do with being stupid SGT Huston...

Response by SPC Michael Dehn made Jun 1 at 2016 2:19 AM

2016-06-01T02:19:52-04:00

When I was in, I'd take turns sleeping with the cq. I think most guys did. Ok haters, hate.

Response by SPC Kenneth Koerperich made Jun 1 at 2016 3:00 AM

2016-06-01T03:00:11-04:00

In my time it was:

0900 - 0900 - First thing, get the 1Sgt a pot of coffee. Answer the phones all day long, transfering calls to the appropriate offices, ie. 1Sgt, CoCmdr, or PltSgt's as needed. Field all trouble calls/alerts. Once DD ended, you went to chow, Duty NCO arrives and you slapped all UCMJ's into their duty load for the night. Field all calls for SM"s/NCO's living in Billets. Patrols of all commons, Arms Rm, Medic Bldg, as we had one attached to Aco. Respond to all in house SM bullsh8t, ie. fights, drunk behavior, & the like. Monitor for any Alerts/Call Outs. Any Extra Duties, ie. Motor Pool guards & what not, making sure they were awake. Then All First rise calls performed, ie. Billeted NCO's up @ 0430, 1Sgt call @ 0500, & CoCmdr @ 0530. SM's @ 0515 for PT. Alarm systems down @ 0600. Breakfast @ 0730. Paperwork @ 0830. Comp day starts @ 0900. This was company level. We also drew Bn & Regt. duty quite frequently. I did both many many times. It's not hard, & it preps you for the field duty/lack of sleep. Loved having CQ on Thursday, which lead into a 3 day weekend if you could handle NO SLEEP.

Suck it up, it's they way of the ARMY. And if it isn't your lucky. Should be like the old days. Work, not any BS in your way. No internet, no cells, you sit on post, did your rounds & the like based on what Duty NCO told you to do.

And Expect the Duty XO to UCMJ you if your not on post & awake!!!

Cheers!

Response by SFC Eldon Meade made Jun 1 at 2016 3:12 AM

2016-06-01T03:12:59-04:00

The Charge of Quarter is the representative of the Commander for the Unit while he is not present. The responsibility is to be vigil and and to protect the physical property and those who reside in the place occupied. If an emergency or situation should arise the CQ is responsible to notify the proper chain of Command and act accordingly. You can't do that if you are sleeping. The CQ is also to make rounds to physical check the safety of security of the area, again you can't do that sleeping. The runner is a measure to provide an individual to answer calls by phone or radio to again provide contact and safety while the CQ is doing his duties. The Staff duty has the same job but on a larger scale where as they have responsibilities of several areas of the Battalion or Brigade or The Officer of the Day. Several areas could include the common areas, motor pool, arms rooms and several other areas that require physical security. I retired 25 years ago and physical security does not change. Safety and security of service personal is a major part of those charged with the Commanders responsibility while away. I see mentioned sleep plans, well put more people on duty to provide a better rest plan then. Lets see if this will answer some question and provoke responses.

Response by SGM Darryl Dean made Jun 1 at 2016 9:58 AM

2016-06-01T09:58:27-04:00

I would consider CQ and Staff Duty as a form of guard duty. Would you allow one guard to sleep while the other is awake? I think this is a recipe to come in and have both asleep.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jun 1 at 2016 10:23 AM

2016-06-01T10:23:27-04:00

Sleep is a crutch. A weakness. Drink water, take Motrin, and drive on.

Response by SSG Michael Burdiss made Jun 1 at 2016 10:35 AM

2016-06-01T10:35:42-04:00

Find something else to me about. Try being a Tower Rat for six years. Some positions ( front room) required you to be awake 26 hrs. One on, one off. For years. Plus PT, training, motor pool, range, testing, boards, barracks maint, ..........

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 2:32 PM

2016-06-01T14:32:56-04:00

There`s plenty of time for chow,rest,checks etc...as long as your SDO and the SDNCO have a plan.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jun 1 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-06-01T16:10:02-04:00

Because you have the next day off. Only one CQ/SDNCO at a time, so can't have one sleep and one awake. SDNCO made use of the interior guard for transport and errands, often the CPL of the Guard. CQs had runners but they pulled a short shift, like a couple of hours and not off the next day. SDO and driver could sleep as they not off the next day. We had the same person as SDO
and OG. At higher headquarters the FOD did not sleep and was off next day.

Response by SPC James Anderson made Jun 1 at 2016 7:06 PM

2016-06-01T19:06:45-04:00

Any body should be able to stay awake with little trouble for 24 hrs. I did so many times, I know hundreds of guys who have done it and I've never seen anyone have trouble doing it. Sounds like more bitching about something that takes slightly more then zero effort.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jun 1 at 2016 7:23 PM

2016-06-01T19:23:32-04:00

In a 24hr shift i would find every issue with the barracks and get work orders made. Doing so kept me occupied and constantly doing my rounds. So I never found any issue with a 24 hour duty.

Response by SPC Kirk Gilles made Jun 1 at 2016 7:34 PM

2016-06-01T19:34:55-04:00

Wow, I was reading all the answers to this. I wish I worked for some of you guys. At HHC 4/37 Ft Riley, no one ever came to see if CQ/SD was okay, tired, needed a break, alive...
I would just add that maybe the fact that CQ got a full day off the next duty was reason. Just kind of a Payroll thing? 24 on 24 off? I don't recall Guard getting full day off. Side note: best part of CQ was watching the soldier(s) on the Anti-abuse meds. We tipped the cot every 30mins to check for breathing!

Response by SGT Theresa Edmonston made Jun 1 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-06-01T19:56:42-04:00

It does vary per unit. I have had people to rotate even for just a 20-30 min nap, or time to walk around to break up the day. I had insomnia so it didn't bother me staying up the who time. Other times noone could leave the desk, no electronics/books, no cell phone use, no sleeping. Someone else had to bring food for us. It is whatever command puts out.

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Jun 1 at 2016 9:10 PM

2016-06-01T21:10:45-04:00

When you have worked all day in most cases the CQ and runner has you tend to get tired at night which the CQ and runner does. When one look looks over and see the other one sleep it usually makes the other one sleepy also. I am sure some of you remember getting caught sleeping on fire guard or guard duty. In other words one keeps the other one awake.

Response by SGT Marc Riordan made Jun 1 at 2016 9:30 PM

2016-06-01T21:30:47-04:00

Always slept a little. The phone would wake me up if I was needed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 10:12 PM

2016-06-01T22:12:56-04:00

Nor do they take into account driving home after duty. Because a sleep deprived driver is a safe driver.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 10:36 PM

2016-06-01T22:36:14-04:00

Silly questions deserve silly answers. The sog usually has multiple checks to do to maintain a report. Really should only be there on incident or relieve runner for meals. Better question is why not 12 hour shifts. Since army is big on safety and regulating drove to sleep ratio I'm their vehicles.

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Jun 1 at 2016 11:29 PM

2016-06-01T23:29:17-04:00

Definitely one of the dumbest things I encountered when I switched from the Marine Corps to the Army. There's no reason to have someone awake 24 hrs let alone 2 people. After the official duty day is done very little ever happened that could not have been handled by one person. I can't tell you how many times after CQ or SD I almost fell asleep behind the wheel on my way home. In the Corps after 2200 we were aloud to find a cot as long as one was awake and on duty we would split it into 4hr shifts. The other was always nearby to wake in case of emergency. That 4 hrs made a world of difference over being up 24hrs. The army is all about safety briefs but then throws troop safety out the window with this kind of idiocy.

Response by SSG Herbert Gofigan made Jun 1 at 2016 11:57 PM

2016-06-01T23:57:06-04:00

Well, if that was the case then they should be able to perform and go to work the next day! How many times have you seen someone asleep at the CQ desk? Just saying...

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Jun 2 at 2016 12:00 AM

2016-06-02T00:00:57-04:00

I dont see an issue with 50% security, staff duty has NOTHING to do with combat or preparing for combat. There are some readiness issues discussed, but its not like the dude is sleeping 25 miles away, on a cot would be appropriate. As a matter of fact, I have been in a unit where you get a cell phone and 3 ringed binder and go home... It worked just fine, however, may not work in every unit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 1:16 AM

2016-06-02T01:16:39-04:00

On my way out of the Army, I pulled duty 44 times in a 5-month span.

I WOULD RATHER DIE than do that shit again!!

Response by SSG James Bigbie made Jun 2 at 2016 1:22 AM

2016-06-02T01:22:28-04:00

When I did CQ, usually once the runner cleaned the orderly room, I let him sleep the rest of the time until 5 or so. When I did SD, it was harder due to leave and my checks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 1:39 AM

2016-06-02T01:39:48-04:00

If 24-hour duty is so important, then why doesn't everyone in the unit pull it? Instead, only a select few are subject to the torture. It's not like there's a special skill set required to pull duty. There's an SOP in place that, anyone who can read can follow. Yet there's only an ever-shrinking select few. Everyone else gets to 'escape' based on favoritism and rank.

24-hour duty is insanity.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 2:17 AM

2016-06-02T02:17:31-04:00

It's conditioning. There will be times downrange when you will not get your 8 hrs of rest. Convoys that run into trouble. Mascals where the pts keep coming. Firefights that last past lights out. Even traveling from the states to our FOB was a marathon of sleep deprivation. But it had to be done and discipline had to be maintained. Someone has to take the first watch while your battles sleep. Sure one up one down is acceptable but if its against sop so be it. Get used to it, quit complaining.

Response by PFC Eugene Piotter made Jun 2 at 2016 2:43 AM

2016-06-02T02:43:42-04:00

The unit I was in (company level) the sergeant would usually let us sleep from 2300 to around 0300, depending on the sergeant of course. We were often allowed a tv, and someone would usually bring their dvd player and a few dvd's. That had to disappear by 0400 though. We also had a bookshelf with donated books, so I would usually choose that option if I wasn't tired. I've always been a natural night owl, so I usually didn't have any problems staying awake. I hardly ever got stuck on CQ though, probably no more than a dozen times over the course of 2 years. Considering the company was around 80 people, seems kind of strange now.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Jun 2 at 2016 3:24 AM

2016-06-02T03:24:00-04:00

I remember a sign in the barber shop at rose barracks in Bad Kreuznack. "No sleeping". I was WTF?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 5:37 AM

2016-06-02T05:37:53-04:00

The USAF let go of the in-person CQ and SDO years ago. Now, personnel on duty after hours are given a cell phone, keys, and a duty binder with rosters and other information pertinent to their duties. Also, USAF bases have a 24/7 Command Post (CP, which is like a TOC). The CP can patch the caller through to most anyone, to include the CQ and SDO. In this day of technology, I don't understand why a CQ or a SDO needs to be physically present in the unit in most situations. Though I'm certain that there are exceptions.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 10:11 AM

2016-06-02T10:11:51-04:00

Calling Cq and Staff duty a 24 hour duty is a joke if you count the wasted time before you go on shift. You have to go in for accountability formation some unit will let you go after that, other unit make you do pt. But if it's the weekend come in at 0900. Why do you need Cq or Staff when everyone at work? I can see the reason for after hours and weekends.

Response by SPC Jonathan Packard made Jun 2 at 2016 10:13 AM

2016-06-02T10:13:23-04:00

Normally one will stay at the desk for outside communication and to keep track of those coming and going while the other is a roving guard/fire watch.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 1:49 PM

2016-06-02T13:49:09-04:00

While in Korea, the whole situation was silly. The Staff Duty OIC/NCOIC sat in a tiny office where the video surveillance monitors were. No phone. The CQ was down the hall about 30 feet away, with a phone that *might* work on any given night. Why we needed four people in one place (the barracks) was beyond me.

But more times than not, the OIC (usually a CW2/3) would decide that we would split the shift, and each person would be on duty for 6 hours. We both had eachother's mobile phone numbers in case two people were needed at once. It worked out well, and no one lost too much sleep.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 3:24 PM

2016-06-02T15:24:41-04:00

A lot of responses in here about sucking it up and if you can't hang with duty how will you perform in combat. I'm here to say I've been to combat and still agree with those that say getting sleep while pulling a 24 HR duty is a good thing. The Army preaches safety yet we place our Soldiers in the most unsafe position. I once fell asleep while driving home from duty and had my car ricochet off the guardrail! It caused $2500 worth of damage and could have cost me or someone else their life. All because the standing policy said NO SLEEPING on duty. Several of you have already stated what I endorse as a viable solution. Allow the personnel on duty to get some sleep in a rotating shift between 2300-0400 using a cot in an adjacent office. This seems to be the easiest solution but for some reason our senior leaders REFUSE to see the positive in this. They continue to keep their heads in the sand and say there is no danger with Soldiers pulling 24 hr duty. What will it take for the Army to change? I guess someone actually getting killed of killing someone else. Seems to me that a senseless death is the what gets their attention. But that's the Army for you, REACTIVE instead of being PROACTIVE! #savealife

Response by SGT Justin Leon made Jun 2 at 2016 4:02 PM

2016-06-02T16:02:07-04:00

Our brigade policy when I was in was to work out a schedule amongst those on duty at the time so that each person gets x amount of hours of sleep

Response by COL John McClellan made Jun 2 at 2016 4:49 PM

2016-06-02T16:49:52-04:00

Are those duties always 24 hours? I thought in many units these were posted around COB, and then relieved at PT time in the morning when the duty day started. Still - it's not a fighting position on the perimeter... seems like the 2x "battle buddies" should be awake throughout the night - if one has to handle a situation, the other needs to be alert!

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Jun 2 at 2016 9:28 PM

2016-06-02T21:28:14-04:00

while in Ft. Jackson on my last six month before I retire, it was mandatory for the SNCO's to do SD at the post HQ, I went to the SGM and told him that could do better working at the range I was assigned than to waste my time in staff duty, he accepted and I left, before he could change his mind. I rather run a hundred miles with a 130 pound rock sack, than to stay in an office, playing politics. I work at the Night Infiltration Range, with 5 great NCO's. As a drill SGT in ft. Dix NJ, I can tell you when ever I had SD or CQ I hated it. Because you had to work all day next day. Several times I told the 1SG that I was going home. My package of letter of reprimand was thick, 1SG Crawford, had no mercy. I took every letter he gave me and burned it out after I was done as a Drill SGT. I just couldn't fall sleep.

Response by SFC Walter Wilson made Jun 2 at 2016 11:53 PM

2016-06-02T23:53:16-04:00

This conversation seems to have denigrated into new Soldiers are whiney crybabies and need to suck it up. The original poster asked why is it still done with the safety concerns presented from lack of sleep. For those unaware some locations will give a person a ticket of the same level of a DUI if it can be proven that they haven't had enough sleep before getting on the road. SO the question really is, are the benefits provided by 24 hour duty worth the risks of having people stay awake for 24plus hours. Usually units change their 24 hour policy after a Soldier get into an accident. I had units that encouraged small naps for duty personal, so they would be alert enough to make it home. I have also had units that expected you to do PT then report for you 24 hour duty. Nothing I have personally experienced can justify a 24 hour duty with no sleep, this isn't top say that duty personnel should be racked out all night either. I have personally had to take a nap in my car before feeling comfortable driving home. In remote locations like Ft Irwin where the nearest town is almost an hour away this becomes an even more treacherous error. While on duty I have never experienced an incident more severe than a red cross message, but I have had a Soldier get lightly injured and total his car making the 10min drive home after duty. A brief nap seems worth my Soldiers safety.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 2:36 AM

2016-06-03T02:36:04-04:00

In lue of vehicle accidents and the death of a csm, I know a unit the ops for a sleep plan to prevent things like that. I mean logically I wake up 0430 drive to pt conduct pt then staff duty from 09-09 so if I'm relieved on time...... now I've been awake for 28.5 hrs, to then go out on the road to drive home at the tail end of the rush hour traffic.... thankfully sleep cycle in place from higher echelons, as long as checks are conducted trackers and reports are complete at right times, companies notified of any information. mission accomplished, sops can be altered but still be effective to accomplish cq and staff duty tasks. More commands just need to take the initiative.

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Jun 3 at 2016 2:38 AM

2016-06-03T02:38:54-04:00

I see all the tough guys posting answers like that's the way it is so suck it up and you must be stupid to have to ask. Along with verious other degredations, well I don't see this question as a SGT whining. It's a legitimate question about an antiquated system. It is a safety issue and has been for a long time. As an MP I have seen numerous accidents resulting from soldiers / Marines driving tiered after CQ / SD. I have seen several post about unit SOPS varying from post to post but in my 22 years at 3 different posts they all had the same 24 hr policy. Which is actually a 27 hr policy because you are required to conduct unit P.T. before you begin CQ / SD. While in the Corps it was a little easier we had a cot next to the CQ area and after 2200 we went to a 1 up 1 down policy which aloud each to get 4 hrs sleep unless something happened but allowed for an easy wake up of your partner. I have always stood by the view that while serving we give up many rights but I have always allowed my Joes / Marines the right to bitch. As long as they are working while they are bitching. It helps to vent over something that makes no sense it relieves stress and sometimes makes you think about the issue and see it from different angles that maybe you hadn't thought about before and possibly come up with a solution that you can recommend that might result in a better or safer way of doing things. This SGT wasn't bitching but even if he was so what? As long as he's doing his duty while doing it and isn't being disrespectful to anyone why shouldn't he be able to vent his frustration over a system that can be improved apon and apparently in some places has been. Theres no need to insult or belittle a fellow soldier for a simple respectfully worded question especially from fellow NCOs. You don't have to agree but you should at least give the respect you would want if you had a question even if it did turn out to others thought it was rediculous. obviously the exception being that one guy at cob or eND of mandatory training that raises his hand when the 1SG or trainer asks does anyone have any questions. That guy deserves it. ( just kidding )

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Jun 3 at 2016 3:14 AM

2016-06-03T03:14:05-04:00

For those of you answering it's army training to prepare you for sleep deprivation in combat I'd like to know what FM or AR this CQ training is referenced in. I've had brand new Joes in iraq and Afghanistan who never had the opportunity to sit CQ or SD runner but low and behold when the mission required it they managed to stay awake over 24hrs. How did they do that without ever having stood CQ or SD?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 5:11 AM

2016-06-03T05:11:44-04:00

I have a better question, why do we have Soldiers and NCOs going to pt formation on the day that they have duty? I know command teams will have their reasons for the 24 hours of staying awake.unjust do not understand the need to risk safety for a 27 hour day

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made Jun 3 at 2016 7:40 AM

2016-06-03T07:40:07-04:00

Practice in peace what you will do in war....

Response by SGT Chris Owens made Jun 3 at 2016 10:28 AM

2016-06-03T10:28:30-04:00

when i was still in....we had a plan one would cat nap until a runner was needed or something more serious happened...halfaway through they would switch.....never let your soldiers pull 24 hour duty, thats how accidents happen

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 10:44 AM

2016-06-03T10:44:20-04:00

If you look and your General order does it states anything about sleeping or napping. This why the army is getting weak leadership is there is no decipline and rules are bent to fit each soldier situation. Always remember mission always comes first.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 3 at 2016 10:59 AM

2016-06-03T10:59:22-04:00

I wanted this one to run its course so i could see what those "supporting" the process of 24 hour duty require both Sm be awake the entire time would say.. That done for a few days now.. Care to Make a definitive statement and support it?
What I'd suggest is a single post for each point you find valid that supports no sleeping, and then let others respond.. One point per post, so we can keep it on track.. Respond to the original question posted. I'll start..

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 3 at 2016 11:00 AM

2016-06-03T11:00:06-04:00

Both SM should stay awake in case there is an emergency and one had to leave.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Jun 8 at 2016 11:10 AM

2016-06-08T11:10:39-04:00

We have gotten away from training as the way we fight. Soldiers have issues with the CQ Hours but if an incident occurs while the CQ is sleeping it takes time to handle the situation. the CQ is the acting 1st SG and your not guarding the telephone or the tv monitor but overseeing the Soldiers and the BN Foot Print. That is why is 24HR guard duty. During the 70's there were Motor Pool Guard that required 6 Soldiers, Museum Guard that required 8 Soldiers and there was a guard mount where each Soldier was inspected for uniform infractions. All this went away during the Gulf War so now all there is; is CQ. The Army is losing is training. the Army is not just a job but much more. Please don't feel like I'm slamming you but some parts of PTSD is brought on by the lack of training.

Response by SGT Michael Cardin made Jun 8 at 2016 8:03 PM

2016-06-08T20:03:19-04:00

Well truthfully, its the NCO's job to do the various security checks, make sure the barracks are maintained, and no one pulls some dumb ass stunts which injures or get someone killed.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Jun 9 at 2016 7:13 PM

2016-06-09T19:13:56-04:00

probably because one person by themselves can fall asleep, get "taken out", etc.

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Jun 10 at 2016 2:30 PM

2016-06-10T14:30:57-04:00

We got the next day off so unless you got Sat duty you did get down time. As the NCO I also let the runner nap if all his cleaning or what have you was complete

I always had tons of Army paperwork or letter writing to do anyway in the days b4 the Internet or real cheap phone service so whenever I wasn't checking the barracks or the battalion/brigade area I had plenty to do.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 12:22 AM

2016-06-12T00:22:58-04:00

If I let you (soldier) go nap while I'm at the staff duty desk, how do I go get you if something happens? Remember belligerent Soldier's, red Cross messages, Soldiers Center, drunk soldiers that need rides to the barracks or home, these are all things that can happen in one night. I obviously can't leave unless I'm properly relieved. Correct? Some might say well we have cell phones now call them. Nope, you have your Soldiers that sleep during live fire ranges, alarms in the barracks, and doors getting kicked down trying to wake Soldiers up to show up for duty because they are already late. I wanna tell you that your lucky because some places now have 3 on duty. To be safe of course.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 12:31 AM

2016-06-12T00:31:34-04:00

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-06-12T12:40:54-04:00

Because they are stuck on their old ways? The most reasonable CSMs I ever had ensured that taking naps was something we did.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jun 23 at 2016 7:14 PM

2016-06-23T19:14:33-04:00

Sleep discipline is one of the first things to go in a peace time military. Career men always think about their next move, and not pay attention to the long term care of their troops. When I was in Vietnam we had to go through this bullshit every time we got a new commander. After he ran everyone into the ground, he generally came around. In a prolonged high intensity conflict you're commander's not going to have a long time to break in. Another reason I preferred ROTC or Reserve officers---They may have been short on military history, but were considerably longer on common since.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-08-16T08:04:58-04:00

Read your CQ instructions, it will explain why

Response by SSG Branyn Burkhart made Aug 16 at 2016 9:12 AM

2016-08-16T09:12:42-04:00

It's going to take is someone falling asleep at the wheel and killing someone while heading home from staff duty for the unit to rethink the no sleeping policy. I remember having staff duty, it sucked. I was up at 0530 to go to PT and then work all day, and then get relieved at 0900 the next morning when someone from S-1 came in. It was good times. You always hoped you got a SDNCO that had some common sense and would let you trade off and get a little rest after making the rounds.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Aug 16 at 2016 10:03 AM

2016-08-16T10:03:41-04:00

Because taking care of soldiers is a 24/7 365 job of the NCO. And you get enough sleep when you die.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:05 AM

2016-08-16T11:05:31-04:00

My question is, why not? If one is a sleep and the other one dozes off - then you have no one on duty. I pulled Staff Duty NCO and Staff Duty Officer for more than 13 years in Germany, France, 3 different locations in Vietnam and 12 locations in the USA. During that time, I never questioned having 2 Staff Duty Personnel awake, alert and standing by and ready for whatever comes up.

I'm wondering if our "New Army" is to soft.

As far as CQs and their Runners go, the key is that they don't have subordinate units or higher commands.

At least that's the way this soldier sees it.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Aug 16 at 2016 11:14 AM

2016-08-16T11:14:46-04:00

Probably, because in most cases, the private would be the one having to stay awake :-) JK,

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:46 AM

2016-08-16T11:46:12-04:00

We don't have CQ here or the last Bn that I served. When the duty day is done we locked the door and shut it. If there is an issue we will see you in the morning.

Response by SGT Kristjan Rahe made Aug 16 at 2016 12:43 PM

2016-08-16T12:43:10-04:00

I had to work Kennel care CQ for 42 dogs on Ft. Bragg and this same policy was in effect. It is an irrational policy that puts people at risk of injury and forces soldiers to sneak in a nap risking the D/O catching them and and Art 15. In civilian life I worked 12 hours most of my career and between commutes to and from work, family time, the days Are long . We had a staff member who struck a bridge abutment after working and died after falling asleep. I drove from the kennels to Ranger Station 2 where I lived at the time, 20+ miles on rural range roads and there are many times I do not know how I made it home. Major corporations have learned the benefits of power naps. Sleep depravation is unhealthy and uneccessary.

Response by CW4 Steve Hansen made Aug 17 at 2016 8:18 AM

2016-08-17T08:18:15-04:00

Stop whining and get it done

Response by CPT Steve Wolszczak made Aug 17 at 2016 10:32 AM

2016-08-17T10:32:05-04:00

Hope you never get in a battle, or go on a patrol that goes over 24 hours.

Response by SFC Arai Pooley made Aug 17 at 2016 12:17 PM

2016-08-17T12:17:32-04:00

Have you ever tried to wake up someone from a deep sleep? They are useless for almost 40 minutes. Definitely not someone you can count on when the shit hits the fan. Regardless, what you are suggesting is not original and has been tried in the past (failed in the past). Furthermore, forcing yourself to stay awake and developing methods to accomplish this is a good tool for developing self-discipline.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-08-17T13:20:59-04:00

Security is always 50% in the patrol base. If I was ever in a unit that required CQ again, this would be my policy.

Response by SSG James Dennis made Aug 17 at 2016 3:53 PM

2016-08-17T15:53:07-04:00

Why do some service schools only allow 2-3 hrs of sleep per night, like Ranger School? What does one learn about themselves and others through sleep deprivation? Hmmm, maybe the answer lies within yourself.

Response by SGT Alexander Wallgren made Aug 17 at 2016 4:46 PM

2016-08-17T16:46:16-04:00

I can't believe someone actually asked this question, further proof of what I've been saying all along....which some of you old school MFers already know. Here's some real advice; quit your sniveling, shut your F'n face, and pull CQ or Staff Duty like everyone else. If you can't hang or hold your F'n tongue get the F out when your ETS date comes around.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 5:46 PM

2016-08-17T17:46:33-04:00

Thankfully, my last BN was smart enough not to codify staying awake for 24 hours. When I had my shift for SDO we all stayed up till 0100 when everyone had to be in the barracks and then sent one runner to his room and let the other rack out in the day room two doors down from the CQ desk. After I completed my post midnight security checks the CQ, SDNCO, and I would take turns catching a few hours of sleep. Had a couple overzealous PSGs/1SGs inform me that my SDNCO was sleeping in the day room - obviously they hadn't read the policy and assumed it was the same as their previous unit. Unfortunately, their presumption meant the CQ was reluctant to get some sleep even when I gave him the go ahead since he technically didn't answer to me and was afraid what his senior NCOs would say/do. All that to say, it is ingrained in the minds of senior leaders that CQs and SDOs don't sleep, so they enforce that as if it is the standard, which results in it becoming the codified standard in most places...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:31 PM

2016-08-17T20:31:32-04:00

Train like you fight oh what I guess not huh Mfers stay up for 24 hours on fucking Libo now is time for duty you need a fucking nap Miss me with that shit lol

Response by CPT Chris Newport made Aug 18 at 2016 11:59 AM

2016-08-18T11:59:38-04:00

Its part of being a Soldier, better to learn how to stay awake now than on a battlefield. Sleeping at the wrong time can get you quietly killed.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:23 AM

2016-08-19T00:23:17-04:00

From a CSM: Ask your 1SG if he's willing to give up a third person...if so, then mandate one sleeps for six hours, call the SDO in while the SDNCO sleeps for six, then the last guy sleeps for six.... then no one gets the next day off........ problem solved and everyone got 6 hours rack time,

Response by SPC Mitchell Keatley made Aug 19 at 2016 11:38 AM

2016-08-19T11:38:09-04:00

Because that is how it is... Suck ut up Felecia and do your job... Nobody asked you what you wanted to do... they gave you an assignment and that is how it is done... Now... Nibody said you had to sit at the desk all 24 hrs... you and your NCO can rotate and do the the walk around routine for your shift... and if you don't like it... Just go tell Top and see if he has a lawn that needs mowing... or a parking lot that needs sweeping... in the rain... or the building to be painted... in My day at B Co. 2/505. PIR 1978...1981when you where guvin a Detail... You showed up 15 mins early... which was... ON TIME... Walked ariund with you DUTY CHANGE NCO to assure all was well... and then confrenced with Duty NCO And The1st Sgt for the days Special... Anything... and carried on in a Good. .. Airborne Fasion... looking Good ... Standing Tall and always at the ready... I wonder about Todays Young men in Service and wonder if they slept thru the Class of Esprit Decor

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Aug 20 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-08-20T14:04:47-04:00

FM 22-6 tells us that Guard Duty can not exceed 8 hours. Yet we are "guarding" buildings for 24 hours.
Stationary guard posts are not to exceed 2 hours, yet we are expected to leave our runners in the same spot for 24 hours.

Hell, The Army Safety Program AR 385-10 itself tells us that drivers MUST be rested and be afforded the opportunity to get enough sleep.

Not enough, The Army Safety Website, TRiPS also clearly states that soldiers WILL have a minimum 8 hours of continued sleep before driving.

MEDACC via their Public Health Center has a page where they stress the risks associated with Sleep Deprivation and have links to FM 6-22.5, where it clearly states that soldiers should be given 6-8 hours of rest/sleep in a 24 hour period.

The 24 hour uninterrupted "mandate" to stay awake for 24 hours, and then force the soldier to break the law, because well, anything more than 18 hours without sleep is equivalent to a BAC of 0.1%. The National Sleep Foundation produced a very detailed study on this.

Earlier this year, I was unlucky enough to be on Staff Duty during a 4 ft dump snow storm on a Sunday. Our Battalion HQ is roughly 150 yards from the parking lot, and my runner had a back profile so he couldn't assist with the digging out. I spent my day digging what must have been thousand of cubic feet of snow because you know, the building has to be cleared and safe to walk around.
By 2000 or so, I was in so much pain and so damn tired I was barely functioning, still have 12 more hours to go.
When it was finally time to be relieved at 0900 the next day, my relief called to inform me he wouldn't make it because his wife was stuck in the snow so he was staying to dig her out.
After about an hour I managed to get hold of my chain of command so anyone can send a replacement.
At 1030, someone finally came, and after the relief briefing, I tried to make my way home in the snowy mess.
Did I mention that I had to drive in pain and sleepy as hell in dangerous winter weather conditions?
And to top my day off, as I am literally pulling into my garage at about 1130...I get a phone call informing me that the acting CSM, a 1SG, wanted me to go back immediately to repeat my relief briefing in front of him.
So after I drove back to Battalion, gave my briefing AGAIN, and drove again back home, it was almost 1345.

So I had been awake for roughly 32 hours.

Luckily I didn't wreck my car, or injure or killed someone.

This Staff Duty/CQ proposition is a leftover from a time when it was actually necessary to have a fire watch. People on duty 24 hours a day is needed, of course, but it should be done as either an 8 or 12 hour shift.
We work 8-12 hour shifts anyway, so whats the difference.

Thinking brans, exercising the Army's 8th Value (common sense) want to know.

Response by CW2 Geoff Zorger made Aug 29 at 2016 4:31 PM

2016-08-29T16:31:51-04:00

First time I ever pulled CQ I was explained the gravity of the situation and that falling asleep was not an option and would be dealt with in a very severe manner. Also , that the Sgt of guard and OD would most likely visit during my tour of duty. So I sucked it up and sat at that desk looking down the hallway of E Co., making my occasional walks down the hall. I know by 0400 I had to have had the heavy eyelids ever. Ah the need of good discipline....... 7th grade Greenbrier Military School LOL

Response by SGT Timothy Summers made Dec 2 at 2016 12:15 AM

2016-12-02T00:15:49-05:00

most units I was at during my 6 1/2 years of my 2nd enlistment did allow 1 soldier to sleep while the NCO stayed awake for a few hours.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2016 2:40 PM

2016-12-08T14:40:45-05:00

Because , as we use to say in Vietnam, "CHARLIE NEVERS SLEEPS." Look at the enemy's kill time and you will see the highest rate is after dark. You need to experience the sleep-deprived training so that you will know how to withstand riggers a 24 - 72 hour combat situation.

Again,remember "CHARLIE NEVERS SLEEPS."

Almost everyone thinks Tet 1968 lasted only 12 hours, but infact it lasted +/- 72 hours.

At least that the way this old Soldier sees it.

Response by CPT Chris Newport made Dec 13 at 2016 7:21 PM

2016-12-13T19:21:56-05:00

In regards to getting the Duty; Officers must work the next day, EMs - as I understand it, get the next day off.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2019 9:39 PM

2019-01-26T21:39:12-05:00

I was in a unit that staff duty and cq didn't start until 1800 and lasted until midnight then a shift from midnight until 0600 and on weekends they were 12 hour shifts. Our CSM thought weekday staff duty and cq was a waste of manpower.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Apr 28 at 2019 6:19 PM

2019-04-28T18:19:47-04:00

I always had the next day off so I didn't mind to much. The last hour seemed like it took forever.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Aug 31 at 2021 2:10 AM

2021-08-31T02:10:09-04:00

At the time when I was in, in my unit it was not allowed to sleep during CQ duty. Now to get around that we always had 3-4 Soldiers on duty. 2 were for CQ and 1-2 for fire guard duty. There really wasn't a need for fire guard duty since the CQ duty was the exact same thing fire guard duty but it was under the radar encourage to coordinate between CQ and fire guard watch on when to nap/rest. Basically simply put work out a schedule where 2 were awake doing their job and 2 were sleep and rotate. Do what your suppose to do, keep your radio on and on the proper channel so you get to where you need too.

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Oct 23 at 2022 10:45 PM

2022-10-23T22:45:55-04:00

Excellent question. When I used to be active duty Army at Ft. Knox and stood CQ there was two Soldiers doing CQ. It was always a SPC and a CPL or a SGT. A SPC and a SSG would do Staff Duty. There was no naps in thise 24 hours. But, who ever did CQ or Staff Duty would have the following day off. Not sure what unit keeps their Soldiers awake after he or she gets relieved. This doesn't make any sense as he or she would already be tired and would be impossible to stay awake or function during PT.