Why do higher ranks get Bronze stars and the soldiers on the ground doing all the work get a lesser award?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:43:06 -0500

I was cross leveled into a unit and mobilized to Afghanistan, I fly all over that country to do my job. But except for one officer no of the higher ranks ever left BAF. When the mission was complete all officers and the highest ranking NCO were awarded Bronze Stars but the rest who went out the wire got Achievement medals?

Response by SSG Daniel Deiler made Jan 28 at 2016 3:46 PM

SSG Daniel Deiler — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:46:29 -0500

Don't you know the unwritten rule that nobody in senior leadership will admit to existing? Awards are commensurate with rank! Smh. Gotta love the double standard.

Response by SSG Kevin Wells made Jan 28 at 2016 3:52 PM

SSG Kevin Wells — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:52:16 -0500

After watching an SFC who never once left the wire, receive a bronze star, medals in general lost a lot of meaning to me! From my experience, if there's no "V" device, it was a rank award.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 3:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:54:07 -0500

The main reason is that awards are based on level of responsibility as well as duties. While higher ranking NCOs and Officers may not handle the on the ground operations, they are overall responsible for the planning, execution and supervision of those actions. Moreover they are responsible for mission success or failure. It took me a long time to understand this concept but think about the level of responsibility for the "rest of us"

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 3:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:56:24 -0500

I was in iraq, 07-09... E5 (newly promoted) got a BSM...

Its all about who writes the award, and how its written.

Response by SSG Daniel Miller made Jan 28 at 2016 4:00 PM

SSG Daniel Miller — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:00:55 -0500

The unwritten rule of rank. There are rare cases of people below the grade of E-7 getting recognized appropriately, but they are few and far between.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 4:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:04:48 -0500

After I saw someone get the same award I got for 15 months in Baghdad, receive one for trolling the internet the entire award system lost its appeal to me. Its not totally rank based but it is subject to your chain of command. I just try to do what I can at my level write my Soldier for the award I feel they deserve and stick with it no rewrite to change award I never they have to officially downgrade it for it to change!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 4:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:12:30 -0500

Join the club!!! I got an Achievement medal my last deployment. It was a slap in the face. All the E7's got Bronze Stars.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 4:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:46:48 -0500

Same happened on my 2nd tour of Iraq. We were told that unit above us that was approving wasnt giving them as freely to the lower attached units like us. So I know exactly how you feel.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 5:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:07:13 -0500

Same thing happened to us!

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Jan 28 at 2016 6:04 PM

SFC Thomas Howes — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:04:13 -0500

My uncles fought in WWII with the 101st ABN and they told me you had to do something unbelievable to get a bronze star my cousin that were in Vietnam said that same thing. It looks like they use this award now a a end of tour award for E9 and above

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Jan 28 at 2016 6:06 PM

SFC Thomas Howes — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:06:53 -0500

I have you noticed most of the respond on this have been from E7 and below

Response by SSG James Valentine made Jan 28 at 2016 7:52 PM

SSG James Valentine — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 19:52:18 -0500

Higher the rank, the more roll of responsibility vs task is being played.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 8:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:36:02 -0500

Because they no longer benefit from them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 4:20 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 04:20:18 -0500

If you are an E-6 or below, you likely feel like you got screwed by the award system at one time or another... and you're probably right. I know I have. I use my hatred of the award system as a motivator to try and ensure my soldiers don't feel like they have been slighted by the system. I put in appropriate award recommendations. I ask soldiers during quarterly counseling what they've been doing in and out of the military to see if something they are doing is adding up. I also encourage lower enlisted soldiers to bring to my attention meritorious acts that they know of their peers committing or even that they committed themselves. I also do my best to educate my soldiers on what awards are out there and the metric for which they may be received, including examples of what would get a recommendation from me. I think this makes it more concrete and makes them more likely to pursue additional duties and responsibilities.

Response by SSG John Caples made Jan 29 at 2016 6:30 PM

SSG John Caples — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:30:24 -0500

I went outside the wire every day when in Iraq 03 and went on all the missions , they had to make me stay off a couple due to me sleeping and rest , food. and all I got was a ARCOM , Go figure

Response by SSG Melvin Nulph made Jan 30 at 2016 7:58 AM

SSG Melvin Nulph — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:58:03 -0500

Sounds likesome things never change? Just do me a favor, when some of you make it up there, do not become one of them, and always remember the medals never made a soldier, never...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 1:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 13:01:44 -0500

I know someone who got a bronze star for being the LT in the S1 in Afghanistan. I was a grunt and only got an ARCOM. I don't care, but it kinda cheapens the Bronze Star. Just my opinion.

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Jan 31 at 2016 12:03 AM

SSG Ronald Colwell — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:03:28 -0500

Yeah system is broke, if you were flying all over assuming helos, you should have been award an air medal

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Jan 31 at 2016 8:54 PM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:54:49 -0500

We got BSM's all the time regardless of rank...I guess it must depend on your mission and your COC.

Response by 1SG Justin Little made Feb 1 at 2016 3:19 PM

1SG Justin Little — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 15:19:31 -0500

The awards system is broke! But at the end of the day don't judge the man by what he wears on his chest more often then not you will just be disapointed.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Feb 1 at 2016 8:57 PM

SSG Stephen Arnold — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 20:57:51 -0500

Rank doth have its privileges.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 1:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:09:05 -0500

I agree with alot of the comments about "it all about how it's written" but there is a ridiculous double standard most of the time.

Response by 1SG Jacob Baty made Feb 3 at 2016 1:16 PM

1SG Jacob Baty — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:16:02 -0500

Its rank based. After five deployments with two different units I have seen a lot of BS. A SPC gets an ARCOM with V while a SFC gets a BSMV for the same fire fight. Apparently you are more courageous with more rank. I have seen a SSG get an ARCOM for being a PSG while the other PSG's who were SFC's got BSM's. (I was one of the SFC's) Its a bunch of crap.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 1:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:24:33 -0500

Wow, you must have been on the same deployment as me. It was explained to me that only higher ranks get bronze stars unless you did some act of valor. Wait, what? Come again.

The Bronze Star Medal, unofficially the Bronze Star, is a United States decoration awarded to members of the United States Armed Forces for either heroic achievement, heroic service, meritorious achievement, or meritorious service in a combat zone. ~Wiki

Any person whom while serving in any way in or with the United States military after 6 December 1941, that distinguished himself or herself apart from his or her comrades by brave or praiseworthy achievement or service, that did not include participation in aerial flight. The act justifying award of the medal must be performed while fighting an enemy of the United States, or while involved in conflict with an opposing/foreign force.

It can also be awarded for heroism while serving with friendly forces engaged in combat against an opposing military in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

Heroism carried out under acts as described, which are of a lesser degree than those awarded of the Silver Star, will justify the award of the Bronze Star Medal.

While of a lesser degree than the award of the Legion of Merit, the act justifying the awarding of the Bronze Star Medal must have been praiseworthy and accomplished with merit. It can be awarded for a single act of value or meritorious service. ~ usmilitary.about.com

Still looking for that unwritten rule.

Response by Maj Tim Rogers made Feb 3 at 2016 1:35 PM

Maj Tim Rogers — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:35:16 -0500

For the record, the Bronze Star is the combat equivalent to the Meritorious Service Medal. In fact, the MSM was created after the Bronze Star in order to recognize meritorious service that was not performed on a combat tour. So, if the actions wouldn't warrant an MSM in a non-combat tour, they wouldn't rate a Bronze Star on a combat tour.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 1:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:39:31 -0500

This has happened for a long time. My opinion is the bronze star and below have been degraded because of this ongoing problem. Awards should be awarded for your actions. Not by rank.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Feb 3 at 2016 1:41 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:41:20 -0500

I've seen officers and NCO's that were relieve of command or their positions in theater due to incompetence and still received bronze stars. How is an award for people like that even able to be justified in writing. Apparently there are too many people out there that believe the bronze Star is a automatic deployment award for officers and senor NCO's. I'm glad I receive a MSM. Without a "V" device, the Bronze Star became a worthless medal because of this idiotic way of thinking.

Response by SSgt William Norvell made Feb 3 at 2016 1:42 PM

SSgt William Norvell — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:42:18 -0500

Some of us that served for 28 years and retire and get nothing. I have to fight to get my flag.

Response by LCpl Nicholas Hines made Feb 3 at 2016 1:47 PM

LCpl Nicholas Hines — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:47:02 -0500

Well yeah that's sadly how it goes, they command is the ones who write the shit up, so they write themselves up for the good shit because they "rate" and write you up for what ever they feel like, your Lucky if you will get your respective branches achievement medal instead of a certificate of commendation.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Feb 3 at 2016 2:14 PM

Lt Col Stephen Petzold — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 14:14:45 -0500

Having worked in USFOR-A HQ (but not the J1) while Petraeus was there I know he was one of the big pushers behind the Bronze Star Medals (without the V) for folks. He explained it once that he saw the Bronze Star without the V as equivalent to the Meritorious Service Medal but for service in a combat zone. He said that even if someone spent their tour on a FOB, they still left their family for a year, were subject to indirect fire, etc, so why should they get the same end of tour medal as someone who did not deploy? But there is a world of difference between the plain Bronze Star and one with V and awarding them for very different experiences leads to confusion. Someone below posted a link for a proposal to add a C device to the other awards to denote an award in a combat zone. This might ultimately be a better way to go.

As far as awarding the plain Bronze Star, when I was there you had to be on at least a 12 month tour to be eligible. Beyond that it was up to each unit to recommend who for which award. For the Bronze Stars, since the Commander of USFOR-A was a proponent, if a unit recommended someone for the award, USFOR-A usually passed the recommendation on. For even the plain Bronze Stars, the recommendation then had to go back to big Army back in the states for their approval. If it was another Service member that was recommended for approval then, after big Army approved it, it had to go to that Service's HQ for approval. It was not unheard of for the Army, or one of the other Service HQ to change the level of the awards.

From what I remember the Navy and USMC almost never approved the plain Bronze Stars, as they saw that as an O-6 level award. The USAF and Army were more liberal with their awards. I cannot speak for the Army, but in the USAF there is a rank component to the awards (LOM, MSM, CM, AM). For instants, the MSM is pretty much only awarded to field grade officers and Sr enlisted in the USAF. The LOM is an O-6 level award. The plain Bronze Star was kind of outside that normal rank order of awards in the USAF, so folks of different ranks did get them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 2:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 14:33:24 -0500

This is unfortunately true. With few exceptions, E6 and below get Arcons and everyone else up the food chain get Bronze Stars. The way it was explained to me is that the higher ups have a larger level of responsibility. I don't buy that because E5 and E6 team and squad leaders bear the brunt of the fight. Just my two cents.

Response by MAJ Michael Kammerer made Feb 3 at 2016 3:30 PM

MAJ Michael Kammerer — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:30:46 -0500

On my first deployment to Afghanistan we were told there was a quota, only so many BSMs per SQDN/BN. I was on the other side of that quota as a Scout PL, others that never left the wire or where releaved/fired received BSMs, I received an ARCOM. Some of my PVTs and PFCs received AAMs. This still bugs me to this day. My second deployment I was an S3, but as an individual augmentee to a Reserve GRP. We were not allotted any BSMs by ISAF, everyone received ARCOMs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 3:45 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:45:38 -0500

You can't let what happens at other places influence or demotivate you. Influence your AO, educate your subordinates, peers, and leaders in the proper procedures by regulations, and make your little piece of the Army the way it is supposed to be. Don't let things outside of your control change your behavior.

Response by SSgt Jamie Ritter LeBlanc made Feb 3 at 2016 4:19 PM

SSgt Jamie Ritter LeBlanc — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:19:55 -0500

Same rules are in play for emergency services-firefighters, cops, and ambulance services. No medal you were doing your job. Oh but the doctor shows up an hour after the plane accident gets a medal not a first responder

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 6:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 18:07:08 -0500

Was awarded a BSM on this last deployment as a SSG. At some points I was filling the bilett of a SFC and at others that of a MSG. I loved the job and did the best I could everyday. I watched CPTs and MAJs get ARCOMs during the same rotation for similar work. And we did go outside the wire almost everyday. I will say though I did see a lot of the politics behind the medal, and would honestly say that there was an unofficial OML for this award.

Response by SGT Brian Dimoff made Feb 3 at 2016 7:16 PM

SGT Brian Dimoff — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 19:16:10 -0500

I see a good amount of replies to this, and for the most part, those of a higher rank who seem to benefit from the unwritten rule say "it's unfortunate" but they also don't show any plan or ambition to change it.
Very few officers have ever earned my respect, and I am far from alone in this.
If you as leaders want your soldiers to respect, follow, and go above and beyond. EARN IT! The majority of the time, we salute you because we have to, we obey because we must. Those few leaders who have earned thier place, we'll follow them into hell.
Fix the system people, don't continue it. And while you're at it, try to loose the chip off your shoulder... while you were in college getting drunk and enjoying life, a great many of your subordinates were already a combat tour in.

Response by 1SG John Cummings made Feb 3 at 2016 9:50 PM

1SG John Cummings — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:50:42 -0500

There are two types of awards. Service and Achievement. Most deployment awards are service awards, you get it for doing time in theater, and they are awarded based on level of responsibility. So an E-7 will probably get a higher award then the E-4. Achievement awards are awarded for an achievement and nothing else. So the E-4 can get a higher medal then the general does.....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 10:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:56:41 -0500

Same thing happened in my unit in Iraq & our 1stSgt got a purple heart for banging his knee. It had nothing to do with enemy contact.
Our Senior NCO's in my platoon favored a few.
So much bullshit backstabbing in, not only my platoon but my company.

I respect rank but there are few in my old unit that I could not care less what happens to them. If they were dying & only my blood would save them, I would look them in the eye & give them the finger.

People talk about brotherhood, forged in combat. Well, there was very little of that in my platoon back in Ramadi in 05-06.
The PSG had his little Clique that he did everything for.

Response by SSG Roy Harrison made Feb 4 at 2016 12:04 AM

SSG Roy Harrison — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:04:06 -0500

I received the same unfair treatment

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 1:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 01:47:27 -0500

Lol yeah I remember that. My team mates who literally carried missions on their soldiers got shit. While higher ups who didn't do shit (some did) got these great awards. Bullshit ass awards.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Feb 4 at 2016 3:12 AM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 03:12:08 -0500

The administrative version of what was once a Valorous Award only leaves Vietnam Era Bronze Star recipients turning in their graves. Along with just about all of the things awarded for "because you were simply there breathing air", and not for "what you have done".

I heard they hand these out also for "retirement". I thought the "award" for that was a Pension.

Response by SGT Brian Paine made Feb 4 at 2016 7:23 AM

SGT Brian Paine — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 07:23:26 -0500

I to saw this over my 3 deployments. I went outside the wire hundreds of time during one deployment and my Plt SGT only went out two to three times. He received a bronze star and I only got a AAM. Senior leadership was the problem from the start and still is. Yes, I am sour about it to this day and I have been retired for four years now.

Response by SGT Michael Sherrard made Feb 4 at 2016 8:56 AM

SGT Michael Sherrard — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:56:26 -0500

I remember in OIF 06' - 08', Task force commander overheard saying that nobody under the rank of sgt will get a BSM. Shortly after mine(pfc) and at least one other (spc) BSMV , were reduced to ARCOM V.

Response by MSG Toney Reese made Feb 4 at 2016 9:21 AM

MSG Toney Reese — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 09:21:15 -0500

Believe me the Army has not changed. This happen in every war! During the Viet Nam war the same old BS with award where everywhere. If you were and officer and you wanted a CIB.They would hop on a chopper and fly to a outpost and stay there long enough to receive the awards.Don't even think about the Purple Heart and other high awards. The PFC,SP4,SGT and SSG who put their asses on the line was lucky if the SFC/LT would even put you in for an award because of having to right the citation.Medics are the worse I know because I was a 11B and a 91B/91C.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 10:23 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:23:09 -0500

It is all about your leadership and how they write the award and the knowledge that they have about Army Regulations, I was a SSG, Infantry Squad Leader during OIF 2003-2004 and the only SSG in my CO, that was awarded a BSM, alone with one of my SGT/E5, the E7s and LTs got an ARCOM, so the system does work of you have qualified NCOs and Officers that know the Regulations and their job, sadly as it may sound I don't think we have the greatest leadership from the top down anymore

Response by SPC James Anderson made Feb 4 at 2016 11:05 AM

SPC James Anderson — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:05:21 -0500

Not sure how this is news? Read some history books. This has been going on probably since awards were invented.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 11:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:49:53 -0500

Exactly and what about the
"Legion of Merit" E-8 above get this when the retire. There are so many awards and medals that have been and are being issued to the wrong individuals for the purpose of promotions and good ol'boys system. Then if you are a grunt foot soldiers like the rest of us you have to fight to get your PH because Cmd does think it was a non-combat or combat wound.
There is such a huge extremely huge "Toxic Cmds" in the military they either turn their heads or ignore the issues and problems because it the don't want to be bothered with issues or situations that could cost them their career advancement.

Response by SPC Nicholas V. made Feb 4 at 2016 1:46 PM

SPC Nicholas V. — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 13:46:36 -0500

True story

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 2:05 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:05:56 -0500

Awards are directly tied to two things: achievement and level of responsibility. We recently awarded a SGT (E-5 Type) with a Meritorious Service Medal simply because what he did, and the level of responsibility he displayed was deserving of that level of recognition. Is that common? No, but it isn't supposed to be.
I have personally written up a Silver Star recommendation for a SSG that he very much deserved, and was awarded (I don't have one), Several SPC-SGTs for Bronze Star for Valor (I don't have one) and many ARCOM for Valor (I don't have one). I don't have a valor award simply because I have never done anything especially brave. I did my job, and I know I did it well so I didn't sit around worrying about what piece of colored ribbon I had for my uniform. You should not either.
When we start talking about level of responsibility we run into a matter of perception for some people. Does the guy or gal riding shotgun on convoy escort missions have a greater or lesser level of responsibility that the PL/PSG that are planning and leading it? Lesser is obviously the answer, so an ARCOM may be appropriate for that SPC and a BSM perfectly acceptable for the PL/PSG.
Units can address the issue by not awarding BSMs to those people who rarely or ever left the wire. They may have had a great contribution to the mission, but a MSM would be a better choice. I saw a couple of Majors get MSMs and NOT BSMs for that very reason.
My best advice to you is to not let this rent space in your head. Do your job and you will be appropriately rewarded, and when the time comes to recognize subordinates do so AFTER understanding the regulation.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Feb 4 at 2016 3:12 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:12:39 -0500

CPT Private RallyPoint Member wrote a Command Post about the BSM addressing this issue. Regardless if you agree with him or not, it's a good read and the comments are just as interesting. https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/the-bronze-star-medal-military-misconceptions

The Bronze Star Medal: Military Misconceptions | RallyPoint

There are many awards that the military bestows on their service members but none hold more disdain than the Bronze Star. You will find resentment among the ranks for young officers in staff who receive this award while other soldiers are fighting on the front in the Global War on Terror. We often ask how this could happen, but it is not quite that simple. The Bronze Star Medal was authorized in 1944 by President Roosevelt. There was no “V”...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 4:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:22:34 -0500

When I was a SSG I had a PCS award down graded from MSM. I had held a SFC slot for 4 years with excellent NCOER'S and even got a Bronze Star while deployed. On the write up it was written why is a SSG being recommended for a MSM. All I could do was think wow.

Response by SSG David Ursini made Feb 5 at 2016 7:16 AM

SSG David Ursini — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 07:16:47 -0500

The officers that responded that the award is given to officers more often because of their responsibility are dead wrong. A Bronze Star is awarded for Valor In Actual Combat With An Enemy Force.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 7:47 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 07:47:06 -0500

Sad sad I spent 8 years and 3 deployments with the same company been in two platoons, was acting Platoon Sergeant for a JRTC rotation as a SGT, got a COA for a PCS award, the Army needs to be like the Marine Corps no matter what Marine base you enter they all have the same standards.

Response by CPL Christopher Connolly made Feb 5 at 2016 10:33 AM

CPL Christopher Connolly — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:33:41 -0500

This is actually nothing new. When I was in country in 2004, I watched as the awards were written out. Here is the basics on what the rank structure set up for awards was like.
E1-E5 ARCOM
E6-E7 Bronze Star
E8 and Up MSM
O1-O2 Bronze Star
O3 and up, MSM

As a Corporal who spend lots of time outside the wire, running missions, and providing medical support for the Brigade Commander and his PSD, I left with an ARCOM. While the lazy, never left the wire, violated the communication black out rules, medical records SSG got a Bronze Star out of the deployment. Even the Officers that never left the wire still got higher awards.

Fortunately I receiived the one award that mean something to me. After providing care to another soldier that lost his leg in a RPG attack, I received my Combat Medical Badge. That is what my most honorable award is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 9:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:56:03 -0500

All soldiers E5 and below got AAM's, E6 got Arcoms, and E7 and up got MSM's and bronze stars on last deployment. Heck few months after a buddy and I were on our way into work were behind a head on collision. We pulled four people out and pulled the debris off the road till EMTs and police came. With blood stained uniforms, had to have the responders call and verbally say we were there. They were going to write us up for missing formation on top of pulling duty. Our Lt. put us in for soldiers medals, but were downgraded all the way to AAM's. Final reason told was non of the leaders had one so they weren't going to give it to a SPC. CSM even told us before we received those that we didn't deserve anything. He didn't shake our hands just walked by during the award giving and gave us a stare.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 12:44 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 00:44:22 -0500

Just had this discussion in ALC today, I find it very unfair when most Ssg never do much but actually supervise, it's an unwritten rule that they want you to think is rank based. Very sad.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 12:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 12:42:44 -0500

Sometimes it has to do with the of responsibility you have to bear. If you are Commanding or serving as a Top you are given special recognition. Other times there is political games about recognizing certain number of representative 'groups' to make sure they are recognized. I am not saying I agree but I have seen what appears to be pandering to various special groups but ultimately you never know. Obviously people have their favorites but hopefully Brigade Level and higher leadership isn't swayed by this. In addition there is the opposite where senior leadership announces that "To have been to many awards given. So whatever you're expecting to receive cut it in half and that's what you might get". That is what many of us were greeted with during a 15 month deployment. For example, I've seen 4 month Air Force SM who never left wire get bronze stars and Young officers and NCOs leave the wire every day walk away with an ARCOM. I know an NCO an officer who received a combat action award because a mortar was dropped several miles from their position on Taji well during the same deployment some officers and enlisted we're taking well directed sniper fire and being exposed to IED's and other threats every day and were awarded the ARCOM. It's a funny system but it's all we got.

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Feb 18 at 2016 9:28 PM

SSG Ronald Colwell — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 21:28:51 -0500

Since 9/11 they have been handing them out like candy, yes higher ups, but I have seen some E4 E5's with bronze stars with v device. Mostly it's the ones that were ass sitters. Vietnam era vets I talk to on daily basis and myself feel that the past 10+ years have devalued the award. I've seen some get that as pcs award, how I don't know

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2016 12:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 00:18:28 -0400

KNOW THIS ... IF YOU CAN GET A COPY OF YOUR FRIENDS AWARD THAT WAS HIGHER THEN YOURS AND YOUR PERFORMANCE IS EQUAL... SEND IT TO THE ARMY G1 WITH A LETTER ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, THE COMMAND CULTURE AND REASONING FOR RESUBMISSION, THEY CAN UPGRADE IT. I FOUND THIS OUT TO LATE AS YOU ONLY HAVE A TWO YEAR WINDOW TO DO SO. I GOT AN UPGRADE FROM ARCOM TO MSM BECAUSE OF SOMEONE BEING TO LAZY TO PROPERLY MEET THE TIMELINES FOR SUBMISSION LOCALLY. IT TAKES TIME AND FOLLOWING UP BUT A RIBBON IS JUST A SMALL TRIFLE OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY AND IT'S LEADERS SHOULD DO FOR THOSE DEFENDING IT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2016 12:24 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 00:24:20 -0400

As a SSG I did 15 months on a Iraqi MiTT team (Iraqi IN BN) as a medic, company advisor to two companies, assisted the S3, and spent months at a time outside the wire (when I say months, like 2-4 months at a time with 10 day breaks between) in Ramadi 2006-2008 (SURGE time frame). We were a small nine person team. I developed my own intelligence from missions and planned missions off of it. I had nine 15-6s on me for actions on the enemy. I seen a 11B SSG get SIX ARCOMS for that deployment that included 2 "V" devices instead of a BSM. I got an ARCOM and was recommended by other units ( for additional awards BSM"V", NAVCOM "V" and ARCOM"V" and never received any of these. I was told that I wasn't a senior NCO.
So that's just one example of fucked up leadership in the Army.
04-05 deployment 11Bs get ARCOM"V"s for driving up and getting guys to take to the BN aidstation after a VBIED went off and taking small arms fire. I'm the one out on the road dragging these guys back to cover and to be evaced... I was told by the 1SG that I was doing my job... no award.
04-05 deployment 06-08 deployment we had 17-20 line medics per org assigned to the BN, first deployment 1x SS (death - meyer) BSM (death) two ARCOM"V"s and the rest ARCOMs (remember this is a Infantry BN in Ramadi Iraqi coming from Fallujah (the second battle)
06-08 BSM(death), Three ARCOM"V"s and nine ARCOMs and the rest AAM's
A fucking line medic that saved numerous lives and lived outside the wire 4/5 of the time didn't get an award because he didn't pass his run before he deployed.
So yeah... it's hard to change culture... most of those dudes are now out of the Army. Why stay in if a trifle means so much to those that are making 3-4 times in money to what the basic soldier is making. Their lives are worth more then that and I don't blame them for not wanting to stay around

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2016 12:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 00:30:19 -0400

What about tankers getting BSM"V"s for driving their tank down a road that infantry foot soldiers just cleared with visual inspection... it happened in Ramadi (2006) when 1-9 INF was ripping with a 3rd ID tank unit

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2016 12:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 00:32:33 -0400

Company Commander goes on a roof during a firefight in Ramadi and stays for 8-10 mins to redirect small arms fire and to get a grid for flanking forces that the UAV already had. Runs down stairs from the roof and takes off his helmet and hangs out till the fight is done. He gets a Silver Star... the joes on the roof in a two- three hour firefight get ARCOMs for service medals.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 6:11 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:11:07 -0400

I must be the exception to the rule. I earned a BSM for an end of tour award as a SGT. One could argue that I was lucky (or unlucky) enough to have taken part in several situations that I feel truly allowed me to earn it. One could also argue that my NCO support channel and chain of command were the ones who truly allowed me to be presented the award. Often, awards are sent back with instructions to "make this an ARCOM/AAM/Etc". My chain of command refused to do so, and elected for the intermediate and approving authority use their ability to downgrade. Those authorities chose not to. Frequently though, I've seen CoC's who cave to higher and in so doing, serve an injustice to their subordinates.

Response by SFC Timothy Bourgeois made Jun 25 at 2016 6:16 PM

SFC Timothy Bourgeois — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:16:01 -0400

My last trip to Afghanistan every E-6 and above in the TOC got a Bronze Star. Really cheapens the award when you turn it into a participation award

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made Jun 25 at 2016 6:28 PM

CW2 Carl Swanson — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:28:51 -0400

I was part of Task Force Hawk in 1999 when we were going into Kosovo. The Air Force was flying missions into Serbia and blowing stuff up. We were flying missions in the area keeping the Serbs up against the Albanian border so the Navy, USMC and Air Force could hit them with air strikes.

It comes out that some LTC back in Missouri who was in charge of maintenance for the B-2s was awarded a Bronze Star and he never even left CONUS! Explain that one to me. BTW, nobody in my unit got above an Army Commendation Medal for the deployment.

Response by SPC James Anderson made Jun 25 at 2016 6:30 PM

SPC James Anderson — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:30:28 -0400

Wow, this is a shocker. Seriously, anyone who finds this as some sort of shock needs to pick up a history book and maybe read a bit, pry yourselves from facebook and twitter and enjoy history, this stuff has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. Rank hath its privileges and among them is being showered with medal and awards. The military has gone a bit crazy the past decade or so with awards, you start seeing people that look like paintings of old European royalty. It sounds like a lot of these medals are just turning into the military's participation awards. If everyone gets one it cant be very special?

Response by SFC Don Ward made Jun 25 at 2016 6:37 PM

SFC Don Ward — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:37:30 -0400

Worked as command Chauffer for 37th Trans Command as an E-5, sat in on a brief about the awards "budget". Definitely about rank.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Jun 25 at 2016 6:44 PM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:44:47 -0400

Nothing new. When I was in-country in '69, unit awards were doled out, E-5 and above, Bronze Star. E-4 and below, ARCOM.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jun 25 at 2016 6:52 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:52:25 -0400

Response by SGT Randel Pruett made Jun 25 at 2016 7:02 PM

SGT Randel Pruett — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:02:32 -0400

It's the same old story.... The higher ups get the good awards for simply showing up and the ones that made it happen get hardly anything but hard D and bubble gum...... and they ran out of bubble gum.

Response by LCpl Nicholas Hines made Jun 25 at 2016 8:02 PM

LCpl Nicholas Hines — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:02:02 -0400

I don't recognize it unless it has a V on it.

Response by Sgt David Hesser made Jun 25 at 2016 9:00 PM

Sgt David Hesser — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:00:21 -0400

I am a little confused, it has always been this way thru history, the hardest thing for me was I know a lot of officers deserved the awards and others just handed them, and so 40ty years latter I still look at pictures of Generals with awards going up to their necks and wonder how many where actually earned.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 11:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:31:24 -0400

I was SHOCKED coming back from Afghanistan when the Lt Col and SgtMaj of our MWSS (super wing POG status in the Corps) got bronze stars just for coming out and immediately after 2 EOD Marines got Navy Com's with V for some truly heroic shit. No faith in the Awards system anymore

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 1:55 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 01:55:03 -0400

It's unfortunately true in the Air Force, both in deployments and in garrison. There are exceptions, but for the most part, the more senior people get the higher awards. I've stuck my head out for my subordinates to get the higher awards, only to have those awards downgraded up the chain. The system pretty much drives the award.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 2:45 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 02:45:02 -0400

Your leadership failed you. Not because you didn't get one, maybe you should have or not, but because he or she did

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jun 26 at 2016 3:48 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 03:48:27 -0400

I will admit that the senior ranks do shoulder a lot of responsibility, but the truth is that a bronze star should only be for Valor. An ARCOM should be the standard deployment award for deployed soldiers regardless of rank. To give a bronze star for anything other than heroism does a disservice to those that earned it through actions.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 7:57 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 07:57:09 -0400

My unit just completed a month long feild exercise. At this exercise I was moved to another team to support them as they didn't have any qualified personel. At this exercise I would act at a FO in the day from 0500-1900 then I would have to TC a badly as a PFC from 1930-0100( because u was the only one who had a Bradley license other then the driver) . This went on for a full month. Ontop of all this the track got lost during the day when I was dismounted and I come back to find my ruck was gone. ( it fell off while the day TC was lost. He was the LT) that happened day two. So I said fuck it. We are in the feild I'll survive till they can send me back to get some gear. Long story short now.

After the feild during the awards day we had I stood there and watch as the LT and the SGT got arcoms. ( for sitting in a Bradley for a month) and when I Co fronted them they said. You were just doing your job... thoughts?

Response by CPL Lane Bailey made Jun 26 at 2016 8:42 AM

CPL Lane Bailey — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 08:42:09 -0400

When i joined the Military I didn't know what to expect and when i deployed again i wasn't sure what to expect I didn't join for the college money and i didn't join for the awards yeah i have a few but I think that if your out for awards that well lets be honest once out of the military you will never use again and probably don't remember what some of them where for. Yeah i have the ICM but once out of the military who cares they are on a uniform that you will never wear again. I don't put stuff on my vehicles to even show my military service. I don't use my Military Discount anywhere and really only talk about my military career with those in or that have been in the military. Awards didn't mean anything to me yeah it was nice to be recognized for a good job but like someone else had said the only ones that even matter to anyone is the MOH and the Purple Heart other than that the rest are pretty to look at on a uniform but have no other reasoning behind them other than Promotion points. So if someone higher rank gets a higher award for doing the same job which they do doesn't mean anything to me didn't really care at the time and still don't care now i haven't met anyone once i left the military that goes around bragging that they have a bronze star or even the MOH people don't brag about it or wear it out every where. So for people to get mad over someone getting an award for something they did is stupid. The ones that bother me are the people that get awards that everyone knows they didn't earn. While on Active duty and deployed we ran Convoy security details and everyone in my unit got Drivers badges and i mean everyone even HHC that never left the wire and only drove around the base with not even one mission under there belt. Me on the other hand I was the only one in the Unit the didn't receive the Drivers Badge i received the Mechanics Badge and wasn't even notified of it i found it online through my AKO and not even sure how i got that one cause i was a driver/Gunner. Not even our mechanics got the Mechanics badge.But again now that i'm out i don't go around telling people the awards that i have cause they mean nothing to civilians and have no reflections on my as a person. So stop worrying about stupid awards that others get and just do your job. Don't worry about awards they mean nothing in the end.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 9:12 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 09:12:08 -0400

The whole concept of PCS awards and End Of Tour awards should just go away

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 1:16 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 13:16:19 -0400

i served 08-09 iraq, medic, pay agent, pad manager, fire marshall, driver, and on occassion gunner ca company, i spent 70% of my time outside the wire, went on foot patrol day and night from a jss, and liberty, to do site assesments, on the way to one of those hit by rg33 ambush, recieved the cab, got home and was awarded msm, while the s1-s6, which very rarely left the fob bronze star, the only shinney moment was the 1sg when he was first told about silver still in country refused it he did get bronze, top told me they put in for higher for me but bn turned it down, its all water under the bridge about 70% of that company ets'd, retired

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 3:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:42:08 -0400

I saw this a lot when I was over in Iraq. If you were an E6 or above you got put on for a BSM, anyone else it would be a ARCOM or AAM

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jun 27 at 2016 1:45 AM

SSG John Jensen — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:45:01 -0400

the SSGs that spent lots of time back in Kuwait got ARCOMS, the SSGs that spent their entire tour on the road (Me) got AAMs. Officers, 1SG, and PSGs got multiple bronze stars, the 1SG went on a grand total of 1 mission into Iraq, I saw most of officers and PSGs do multiple missions. There were lots of times PSGs and LTs were forbidden to go on missions by higher. But a year after we got back and the CABs were awarded, if you weren't on the list of actions listed, you didn't get any thing, but the CO assumed that if you were one of those that was always on the road, that you must have seen something, and got the award, if you spent your time trying to get out of going on the road, no luck

Response by PO3 David Bernal made Jun 27 at 2016 5:19 AM

PO3 David Bernal — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 05:19:11 -0400

Who knows, but don't feel bad, I caught shrapnel in my hands from an IED and never got a purple heart. I was a Corpsman and luckily I was able to pull the pieces out and patch them up after taking care of my guys who got injured. I was told I was getting one, after that deployment I went on terminal leave and a few months later received my DD-214, had everything but the PH. My command never did the paperwork.

Response by CPL Patrick Brewbaker made Jun 27 at 2016 9:09 AM

CPL Patrick Brewbaker — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:09:55 -0400

In environmental biology there is a principle call trophic levels, or trophic cascade. It helps explain the energy that trapped and passed up the chain, the of bioaccumulate on. Producers, primary consumers, secondary consumer, the tertiary consumers.
The tertiary consumer (big fish) biology nerds would say Piscivores, apply pressure to stabilize to system.

The same could be said for the military. Junior enlisted, producers, NCOs primary consumers, secondary consumers officers(O-1-O-4), tertiary consumers O-5 to Flag officers).
A kind of bioaccumulate on occurs, social psychologists would say group think, the energy rises, and the tertiary consumers feed keeping everything in check.
That's the biologist view of the military structure.

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Jun 27 at 2016 2:59 PM

SPC Roger Giffen — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:59:04 -0400

Same thin was going on during the 70s. Nothing ever changes.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 3:53 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:53:31 -0400

That has been the double standard for years. I can remember back in the 90's at Bragg when junior enlisted would be put in for an ARCOM and the command would kick it back with the reasoning "The SM doesn't have an AAM yet" or "ARCOMs are for E-6 and above".

Response by SSgt John Berry made Jun 27 at 2016 4:20 PM

SSgt John Berry — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:20:43 -0400

Have thought the entire medal process has turned into a joke for some time now. Am a huge historian of WWII and when I see the news clips of the white house ceremonies of the last few MOH and here what the person did to earn them today, I chuckle to myself. Read some of the stories of Medal of Honor receivers in IRAQ and Afghanistan then compare them to the achievements of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Many of those Medal of Honor winners would be bronze or silver star winner in previous wars.

Response by PVT Michael Moncrief made Jun 27 at 2016 4:23 PM

PVT Michael Moncrief — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:23:08 -0400

Nothing new and won't stop happening

Response by SFC Joe Ping made Jun 27 at 2016 4:24 PM

SFC Joe Ping — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:24:17 -0400

was attached to the 41st Inf in Afghan and upon the end of tour there all E7 and above were awarded the Bronze Star and below were awarded an ARCOM. I refused the Bronze Star and refused all awards as I felt that I had not done anything to deserve the Bronze Star when you read the award recommendations from the AR. Pissed me off to no end that FOBBITS were awarded the Bronze Star when they never left the gate.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 4:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:46:01 -0400

I feel your pain. I worked my ass off in Afghanistan and rolled outside the wire and did a lot of things above and beyond my rank. I was put in for a bronze star and was denied it because of a memo from a general I will
Not name stating he was tired of bronze stars be given out to E6 and below. Almost all officers to include lazy fobetts got bronze stars. It's against army regulations to do this,

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 27 at 2016 4:47 PM

SSG Brian Kresge — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:47:05 -0400

I thought about this and thought about this and thought some more.

Theater awards, to me, should be the operation/expeditionary medal, appropriate overseas, mobilization whatevers for Guard/reserves, etc. I'm happy with those.

If the command wants to hand out awards for basically showing up for the duration of a deployment, I suppose I just don't care. Sure, it devalues awards, but if we *couldn't* hand out Bronze Stars for mere service, we wouldn't be able to. And there's always going to be an imbalance, because we often have a notional layer of the way things *should* be instead of what regulations truly stipulate about awards. There's no reason why Legion of Merit should be meted out solely for oldhead retirement, either, but it's what we do.

An award with a "V" device, as a friend says, is an award for a really bad day. If I were an E-5 and an E-6, and all they saw fit to award me was an ARCOM with a V, I'm taking that and smiling, because chances are, the gift is another day of living.

I'd absolutely love for the award to reflect work and effort vs. rank and position, but I have no expectation this will change. All we can do is, when we are leaders submitting awards, aggressively advocate for the award we put soldiers in for, to provide bullets that make it difficult to justify a downgrade. We must do our due diligence before we complain heavily.

Response by 1LT Malcolm A. Broussard II made Jun 27 at 2016 4:49 PM

1LT Malcolm A. Broussard II — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:49:02 -0400

I went to Iraq in 2004-2005 with a National Guard unit. I was an infantry officer by trade (enlisted 16 years, USMC and ANG) and needed one last good year to be eligible to retire. Because of herniated discs in my lower back, I was assigned to the brigade S1 office. Before leaving theater, I was informed that the brigade was given a quota for bronze stars. So, a certain number of bronze stars were awarded as well as MSMs (which I understand are not to be awarded in a combat zone because that's the purpose of the bronze star w/o V device?). I was awarded an ARCOM which I felt I fully earned. I also know of a major that got himself awarded the Purple Heart because of a concussion received due to an IED - he got a medic to issue him some headache meds and entered that in his health record and that was the basis for his purple heart. An old friend of mine, now deceased, threw himself on a Japanese hand grenade during the invasion of Iwo Jima that put him in hospitals for two years. The Navy Dr's submitted all the paperwork for Dean getting awarded the Medal of Honor, but the USMC shit all over it. Back in the 80's and early 90's, an infantry Marine getting an award was practically unheard of. When I first joined the Nation Guard after being discharged from the USMC, I met an E7 that had 16 AAMs along with all the other awards he had. So, I guess I'm saying sometimes take awards with a grain of salt. Usually for me, if I'm deserving of an award, the respect I get from my peers means a lot more than a ribbon on a uniform.

Response by SFC Mahlon Paul Manson made Jun 27 at 2016 5:20 PM

SFC Mahlon Paul Manson — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:20:06 -0400

I received a Bronze Star W/V as a SP/4 in Viet Nam. I have been told that I am an anomaly.

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Jun 27 at 2016 5:22 PM

SGT Sam Decker — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:22:24 -0400

This is a point I've been speaking of for years. The award system is so very slanted. Based on the comments i have read, we all seem to be on the same page. So here's my question: how do we fix it? A Soldier, regardless of rank, should receive an award based on their actions and performance. I have read AR 600-8-22 and have reviewed the requirements for various awards. Nowhere in there is rank mentioned. Therefore it is niether a requirement nor even a consideration. So I must conclude that this "policy" is being mandated/enforced by the senior leadership. I mean no disrespect to any individual in that category, but if we all agree that the system is wrong, then we must look to our leaders (who are the approving authorities) for change.

Response by SPC Tyler Risbin made Jun 27 at 2016 5:36 PM

SPC Tyler Risbin — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:36:38 -0400

I never had any real leadership roles when I was in, but I had some great leaders who kept us motivated. Had some shit leaders too, but that's how it goes. I never begrudged the O's for getting fancy ribbons and medals cuz I figured they put in work too. Maybe they didn't get shot at as much, but when shit hit the fan they were the ones accountable for us. If they get a few extra pieces of chest candy for it, no big deal. To be fair I never got shot at either, my most dangerous mission was sitting in a humvee and watching sand blow across the desert horizon on the Mexican border. So maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, but it seems like all I'm seeing on this site any more is a bunch of bitchfests about shit that doesn't really matter. Did you do your job as best you could and make it home safe to your family? That's what fucking matters in the end, isn't it?

Response by Cpl Kent Mitchell made Jun 27 at 2016 5:55 PM

Cpl Kent Mitchell — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:55:25 -0400

They should create a ribbon for attaboys.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 6:57 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 18:57:45 -0400

It is NOT rank based.
It is impact based.
However, rank and position are a huge determiner in impact and often correspond so that it appears rank driven.

Response by SSG Grant Hansen made Jun 27 at 2016 7:13 PM

SSG Grant Hansen — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:13:02 -0400

It's because the senior leadership knows how to write the recommendations and the lower ranks don't and those senior ranks spend most of their time with those senior ranks.

Privates spend most of their time with other privates and might, at beat, get noticed for their job performance by a sergeant. Almost nobody below the rank of SSG even realizes they can submit a reccomendation for an award for anyone they feel deserves one.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Jun 27 at 2016 7:25 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:25:07 -0400

The problem is at the top if that's the case. Leading by example needs to play in better. Bronze stars should be refused by the higher ups if the fighting lower arent receiving them.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Jun 27 at 2016 7:34 PM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:34:41 -0400

When I got my silver star. The higher ranks pitched a fit. Then the Purple Heart 1st one. They had nothing to say.

Response by SPC David Guzman made Jun 27 at 2016 7:42 PM

SPC David Guzman — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:42:02 -0400

Typical

Response by PFC Charles Sanders made Jun 27 at 2016 8:05 PM

PFC Charles Sanders — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:05:02 -0400

When my Dad was in Vietnam he and his team were instrumental in stopping an assault on a base and coordinating the counter attack. It was s big enough deal that all of them were nominated for BSMs. All were downgraded to ARCOMs except the colonel. The colonel's contribution amounted to looking up a couple of stats that my father asked him to confirm. If it doesn't have that "V" on it it don't mean jack…

Response by SSG Lemuel Genovese made Jun 27 at 2016 8:16 PM

SSG Lemuel Genovese — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:16:30 -0400

This has been an unwritten A & D policy since a least WW1. Leadership in a combat zone, regardless of whether the commander in question ever actually participated in field operations gets the Bronze and Silver Stars, some of them without a "V" device for merely being IN Country.

Response by CW4 Robert O'Brien made Jun 27 at 2016 8:20 PM

CW4 Robert O'Brien — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:20:08 -0400

It's fucked up, I know.

Response by Sgt Jim Culpepper made Jun 27 at 2016 8:24 PM

Sgt Jim Culpepper — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:24:25 -0400

That is exactly why a bronze star is worthless unless it has a "v" for valor on it.

Response by PO2 Mikey Layne made Jun 27 at 2016 8:25 PM

PO2 Mikey Layne — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:25:39 -0400

The O club always had each others back..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 8:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:29:27 -0400

I did 463 mission in OIF 1 led not followed no bronze star he's just a SSG and award was written by 1SG and commander

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 8:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:44:35 -0400

My first deployment in Afghanistan was in 03-04 and only a few were awarded Arcoms and a couple awarded BSMs. The rest of the company received certificate of achievements including me. Stop your whining, yes awards overseas are rank driven now. Get over it! You do your job overseas and think your entitled to an award. For what?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 9:44 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:44:08 -0400

In a deployed setting, a Bronze Star is equivalent to a MSM... in fact, an MSM isn't authorized as an award in deployed settings, so a BSM is the only award they warrant by default. Whether the award stratification is fair is another debate.

Response by SSG Ronald Wahl made Jun 27 at 2016 10:01 PM

SSG Ronald Wahl — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:01:25 -0400

That's what I saw too from our deployment, E7 and above got Bronze Stars and below got AAM. To this day when I see a Bronze star license plate, I think big deal.

Response by SSG Clarence Moore made Jun 27 at 2016 10:09 PM

SSG Clarence Moore — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:09:45 -0400

It is common practice. When I went to Iraq in 2003 and everyone was presented with their rewards no one who was a gunner or below got a Bronze Star. We had tank commanders that did nothing more than riding in a hatch that got Bronze Stars. You had to do something extremely heroic to get anything above a ARCOM. Also is saw anyone below SFC getting ARCOMs and below for EOT and Retirement Awards. The Army is like Society, the rich and elite get the best. The rank and file get told what they want to hear in order to get the necessary work out us.

Response by CW2 Daniel Beauchamp made Jun 27 at 2016 10:14 PM

CW2 Daniel Beauchamp — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:14:26 -0400

Good to see little has changed. I landed an OH-58 outside a bunker complex during Desert Shield, cleared it with an M-16 and gathered all personal weapons until we were at gross weight while my company commander covered me from 2 klicks away in an Apache. I got an ARCOM as a WO1 while he got a Bronze Star.

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Jun 27 at 2016 11:02 PM

SMSgt William Hassiepen — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 23:02:10 -0400

This is nothing new, in Dec 89, I was with my Guard unit on Volant Oak exercises at Howard AFB, then the invasion to get Noriega started while we were there. The 4 C-130s began shuttling troops from the US and MARINES from Gitmo. Well when all was said and done, the officers received bronze stars for their flying and went even there with their.enlisted when the shooting started. The enlisted, well they were handed M-16s and augmented the base security forces

Response by SSG Jason Penn made Jun 27 at 2016 11:37 PM

SSG Jason Penn — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 23:37:12 -0400

I know what you mean.... IAW AR 600-8-22 Section I Para 3-1 subparagraph c : "The decision to award an individual a decoration and the decision as to which award is appropriate are both subjective decisions made by the commander having award approval authority. Awards for meritorious achievement or service will not be based upon the grade of the intended recipient. Rather, the award should reflect both the individual’s level of responsibility and his or her manner of performance. The degree to which an individual’s achievement or service enhanced the readiness or effectiveness of his or her organization will be the leading factor." But, all too often, you hear, "He/she doesn't get an MSM because he/she is only a SSG." or "Only those in leadership positions during the deployment will get a Bronze Star." According to the regulation (per the paragraph I provided), awards are to be awarded based off of merit, not rank or position! The problem is that we have senior leadership that has failed to be leaders and recognize people for a job well done and instead recognize them for the pay grade they have obtained, deservedly or not!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 11:37 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 23:37:44 -0400

Well... the criteria for the different awards depends on the level of impact the soldier has. Bronze Star is supposed to be for an impact at the division level. It does heavily depend on who's writing the award, thier writing ability, thier willingness to push it, the viability of the soldier, and the chain of command.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 12:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:10:49 -0400

You know I've heard this so many times and As much as I preach it to my guys awards should not have to be rank specified. I've seen and worked with so many that deserve the award and yet because they are junior ranked they give them an AAM and I've seen some get a COA. I call it stolen valor when you see the cowards who don't put in the work walk away with the highest award. It's poor leadership and the unfortunate thing is that it happened to them as a junior and they keep the the tradition going by screwing the next group.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 12:17 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:17:38 -0400

The Bronze Star (no V device) is considered equivalent to a garrison MSM for service. Keep in mind that most Battalion and Brigade Commanders receive Bronze Stars for their combat command. That's similar to saying that an E6 should receive a MSM as a PCS award. If they've performed to that level, then, they absolutely deserve it.

Take a look at AR 600-8-22 for the award requirements and don't get hung up on what's on your chest.

Response by SFC Kip Brewer made Jun 28 at 2016 12:26 AM

SFC Kip Brewer — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:26:44 -0400

The military awards and promotion systems/policies have been flawed and problematic since there inception. This isn't a result or poorly written regs or those policies it's most often the result of poor leadership and there interpretation of regs and policies. In my experiences over 24 years of service it's the division in the ranks between officers and enlisted. While both sides have a sense of entitlement only one side implements policy at unit level, again how they interpret the big Army regs and policies. Is it right? No. Is it going to change? No. The best you can do is recommend awards for your Soldiers based on what you feel they deserve and then be willing to stand on the carpet and defend that regardless of the outcome.

Response by SSG Robert Albright made Jun 28 at 2016 2:13 AM

SSG Robert Albright — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:13:11 -0400

No surprises there; when I was activated national guard, prior to returning to the regular army, I've had knowledge of instances in which officers and senior enlisted flat out lied to get awards; one of them as a Major fired his weapon into the air on a mission so he could claim he had checked the box for a CIB.

Response by SPC Kenneth Campbell made Jun 28 at 2016 6:35 AM

SPC Kenneth Campbell — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 06:35:58 -0400

Typical "Big Green Weenie" !

Response by SPC Kevin Schober made Jun 28 at 2016 8:04 AM

SPC Kevin Schober — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:04:30 -0400

To me that is the reward for serving your Country as a career soldier and obtaining rank. I do not see an issue with it. If a soldier wants one than earn it. Stay in and make it a career . Anyone that stays 20+ years in my book is deserving of awards like this for protecting our freedoms and way of life. USUALLY higher ranks have earned it by sacrificing a lot over the years. I sure hope today's Military is not turning into a bunch of whiners that feel they are "owed" everything like all the Bernie Sanders supporters we have that feel they are owed everything without earning it with many years of duty and service.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 8:17 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:17:57 -0400

I think most of us know that the system is messed up. The issue I see is that the people who can make changes to the system are the ones most benefiting from it, so they do nothing. It is hard to explain that pumping out medals only devalues them, and worse it makes people expect medals when none should be given.

I have a CO that wants medals written up for damn near everything she can think of, but now soldiers are disgruntled because they didn't get a damn AAM for conducting a mediocre class.

Response by MAJ Joseph Thomas made Jun 28 at 2016 9:59 AM

MAJ Joseph Thomas — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:59:31 -0400

SSG Phelps, as a retired officer I completely agree. After 7 years in combat I saw so many Soldiers and Marines deserving of Silver Stars or Bronze Stars with V Device get their awards down graded by Senior Leaders. I saw Staff Officers get Bronze Stars for sitting at a desk for a year. I had my Purple Heart denied because the Division G3 did not think I deserved it, after getting my right arm blown out of joint and shrapnel in my right leg. I am having to continue to fight this problem. Whatever you do continue to fight for the recognition you and you subordinates deserve. I kept all of the awards I wrote for my subordinates and the complete staffing package showing the down grade. The VA will fight this for your subordinates when they retire or get out. Keep all the paper from the S1.

Response by LTC Tom Jones made Jun 28 at 2016 10:58 AM

LTC Tom Jones — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:58:37 -0400

Certainly is a lively subject.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 1:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:17:53 -0400

Maybe you all don't understand the award system. If you are in a combat area the only award that can be given for service is the Arcom or the BSM. If all you did was your job then you would probably meet the definition for Arcom. If you went above and beyond and met the definition for the BSM then that is what you get. You cannot award a MSM in combat theater. Does rank have a consideration, yes it does. Now what you should be wondering is why more BSM's with V device are not awarded for individual actions to lower enlisted. I fought hard to get soldiers awards they deserved only to have them downgraded. Now I do understand your point relating to what a person has done to qualify for an award but just throwing a blanket statement doesn't address the issue. Take time to read the regulations and then work within the system. For to many times I've heard stories about how a soldier didn't get an award they felt was due only to find out all they did was there job and nothing more. It is all relevant to the situation.

Response by Maj Tim Rogers made Jul 14 at 2016 1:05 PM

Maj Tim Rogers — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 13:05:08 -0400

It's worth noting that the BS and MSM are both to recognize meritorious service; BS for meritorious service in a combat zone, and MSM for other circumstances. In fact, the MSM was created long after the BS to recognize non-combat meritorious service because no such award existed. Additionally, there is not requirement that the meritorious service in a combat environment include acts of conspicuous valor for the action to be considered worthy of a BS. If those circumstances exist, but they don't rise to the level worthy of a Silver Star, that is when a "Combat V" is included on the BS.

So, if you feel your performance would have warranted an MSM if you had performed it in a non-combat environment, then yes, you are correct in your assertion that an appropriate award would be a BS for the same level of service in a combat zone. if not, then a lesser award is appropriate.

As a Marine, I appreciate that the Marine Corps is notoriously stingy in its willingness to approve awards, especially those related to recognize valor in combat duty. However, I feel they took the wrong approach when complaints such as these were made, in that higher ranks and HQ Marines were getting BSs, and lower ranks weren't. The Marine Corps solution for OIF and OEF was to award MSMs to HHQ personnel, and consider BSs for those who were in more intense combat environs (e.g. battalion and lower). I think this was the wrong answer. Serving in a combat zone is inherently more dangerous than serving in a non-combat zone. If the Service wants to maintain the prestige of the BS, don't award an MSM alternative for those who served in a combat zone. Award a lesser award (Commendation or Achievment) that IS an appropriate combat-duty award.

I served in Afghanistan at Camp Leatherneck on the I MEF and I MHG staff, 2010 - 2011. At the end of that tour, despite my request for no award, I was given an MSM. I promptly returned it to HQMC, as I considered an award that recognizes non-combat meritorious service as in appropriate recognition for a year-long combat tour. Frankly, I was insulted that I was recognized with the same award that someone who's never served in a combat zone would get. I was a Major at the time, and if my command required that I receive an award, I would've proudly accepted a NMCCM, or even a NMCAM. Those are awards appropriate to recognize service in a combat zone.

Response by MSG Toney Reese made Nov 2 at 2016 8:13 PM

MSG Toney Reese — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 20:13:28 -0400

Saw this during Viet Nam as well. Grunts who lived and died in the jungles and if you did survived you got your ICB. Senior personal in the rear would catch a ride up on chopper to delivered mail or supplies. They would hang around the CP for a day or two then go back to Division.Sometimes just over 24 hours. The next time you would see them they would be wearing awards they really didn't earn. It hasn't changed and you will see it as long as award carry weight to your promotion or next assignment if a career. Having a combat patch seem to benefit those who did go to battle than those who was not called. That the way it is played and it, not the way it should work.

Response by SGT Brian Paine made Jun 22 at 2017 6:05 PM

SGT Brian Paine — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:05:22 -0400

To add to what I posted before, I was a Bradley Mechanic with prior USMC infantry training and was required to set up, train, equip, and perform drills for the QRF at Camp Blackjack, to later becoming the Camp Victory Complex QRF in Iraq. During this time my team was sought after to escort the Division Commander all over Iraq and to escort all types of convoys from all points of Iraq and Kuwait. Those soldiers I had were cooks, supply, mechanics, and intelligence soldiers. So tell me why myself and the four other NCO's sis not receive an award higher than an ARCOM? We above and beyond with our job requirements and saved some infantry ass on more than a few times. The system is broken and everyone knows it. They just don't give a damn. Oh yea, almost forgot, I did all of this as a SGT (E-5). Unheard of at the time.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Nov 18 at 2017 6:06 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:06:32 -0500

It's for meritorious service as well as for gallantry. If you hand out supplies like no ones business you would quality for one I suppose. Without a V it's another award, shame I think it cheapens it a bit.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Nov 18 at 2017 6:17 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:17:27 -0500

The Bronve Star has become “the retirement medal”....leaving valorous vietnam recipients turning in their graves...

Response by PO1 Muriel Elliott made Nov 18 at 2017 6:49 PM

PO1 Muriel Elliott — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:49:51 -0500

It is an ego trip for all the officers. They have to look pretty in there uniforms for there wives ceremonies and all the pictures they take.

Response by MSG Edward Burkett made Nov 18 at 2017 7:44 PM

MSG Edward Burkett — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 19:44:07 -0500

I was in a unit and the 1SG got a Bronze Star and she never left the FOB. It was the worst unit I was assigned to in my 29 years.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Nov 18 at 2017 7:59 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 19:59:14 -0500

never earned an award, other that Pistol E. my understanding is, chain of Command must sign off on awards, the longer the chain, the lower the award. do I have this wrong? I never understood awards, as the printed awards regulations are HR things and by design a hurdle

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2017 9:50 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:50:56 -0500

This is an issue that should be addressed instead of uniform changes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2017 10:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 22:50:27 -0500

Unwritten policy- Awards have Rank. No one in your actual chain of command will ever admit it, but it’s still a truth that for no reason what so ever exists. It’s almost as bad as badge blockers at expert badge courses.

Response by SSG Mark Matteson made Nov 19 at 2017 2:57 AM

SSG Mark Matteson — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 02:57:52 -0500

Favoritism, plain and simple

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2017 3:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 03:16:47 -0500

I’ve heard it from a CSM’s mouth, if they are a SFC or less they aren’t getting anything bigger than a ARCOM.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Nov 19 at 2017 6:10 AM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:10:21 -0500

I will say that it is based on rank and who likes you. for the most part its like a popularity contest. It does not matter how many times you have put your life at risk by going outside the wire and doing the dirty work, what matters is who likes you and what rank you have.

Response by MSgt Dan Calhoun made Nov 19 at 2017 12:16 PM

MSgt Dan Calhoun — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 12:16:51 -0500

Last time I was downrange my command put a rank requirement for the BSM. E8/E9/O4 and above. Most of them never even left the relitive safety of Bagram.

Response by MSgt Currie C. made Nov 19 at 2017 1:46 PM

MSgt Currie C. — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 13:46:52 -0500

When I was around 15 years old, I had a neighbor that was a US Army WWII vet, who had fought in Europe. I remember reading a citation on his wall, it was for a Bronze Star that he was awarded for taking out a German tank using a Thompson SMG and some grenades. The way they now give out Bronze Stars is a slander to those who really earned them!

Response by SPC Nicholas Bettinger made Nov 19 at 2017 3:17 PM

SPC Nicholas Bettinger — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 15:17:17 -0500

Its always Rock, Paper, Rank! They do it for their personal gain!

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Nov 20 at 2017 6:58 AM

SPC Steven Depuy — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:58:57 -0500

Saw the same thing happen when my sons unit was deployed in Iraq. It seems to be a good old boys network medal anymore, not something to do with actually doing anything.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 11:47 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:47:24 -0500

My best advice would be to quit caring about awards. That system is so hopelessly broken that they have lost all meaning. They’ve become pieces of flare. If you do a solid job and have the respect of your people, that’s worth far more than some uniform trinket. I’ve got ten times the respect for the selfless sled dogs out there making things happen and doing the heavy lifting than I do for the folks in their ivory towers awarding themselves for winning the PowerPoint fight.

Response by SSG Mike Cox made Nov 22 at 2017 11:45 AM

SSG Mike Cox — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:45:44 -0500

ITS BECAUSE HIGHER RANKS DON'T VALUE LOWER RANKS LIKE THEY DID IN WWII , KOREA, OR VIETNAM !!! IN THESE WARS { ALL } RANKS WERE INTITLED TO RECIEVE ANY TYPE OF BRONZE STAR FOR ACTUAL COMBAT ENGAGEMENTS WITH THE ENEMY !!!

Response by SSG Mike Cox made Nov 26 at 2017 12:46 PM

SSG Mike Cox — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:46:31 -0500

THE BRONZE STAR IS NOT CHEAPENED IF IT IS GIVEN TO THOSE WHO ARE IN DIRECT COMBAT WITH THE ENEMY !!! THE THREE LEVELS OF THE BRONZE STAR CAN BE AWARDED TO ANY RANK UNDER ARMY REGULATIONS !!! MERITORIOUS SERVICE DOES NOT MEAN NON- COMBATIVE PERFORMANCE !!!! NOTHING IN THE REGULATIONS STATE THAT ITS A RANK ORIENTED AWARD EITHER !!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2018 12:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:09:47 -0500

It is definitely true most of the prestigious awards have been diluted to Higher iOS wanted NCO/OER Bullets and Turds receiving them not earning them.

Response by SPC Johnnie Banks made Apr 15 at 2018 1:10 PM

SPC Johnnie Banks — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 13:10:39 -0400

The military has changed you had to earn no medals when I was in Vietnam now they just give them away to a bunch crap. The men out there doing the job and fighting should be the ones to get the bronze Stars. Fireline in combat

Response by SSG Charles Elia made May 13 at 2018 4:04 PM

SSG Charles Elia — Sun, 13 May 2018 16:04:32 -0400

Sometimes you just gotta be happy , know you held up your end . Your buddies know the score.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 4:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 May 2018 16:43:31 -0400

Yep. Seen the same thing happen over and over again throughout the last ten years. It’s unfortunate, but the army thrives on double standards but preaches equality. It’s one of the most hypocritical careers in the world!

Response by SCPO William Akin made May 13 at 2018 5:04 PM

SCPO William Akin — Sun, 13 May 2018 17:04:19 -0400

Go to Youtube and give a listen to "Saigon Warrior" by Saul Broudy and Robin Thomas..
You'll see that things haven't changed much in at least 50 years..

Response by SFC Robert Davenport made May 13 at 2018 5:25 PM

SFC Robert Davenport — Sun, 13 May 2018 17:25:29 -0400

That's why I threw mine away after I retired.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 7:02 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 May 2018 19:02:31 -0400

The "New Army". This has been going on for years. Those that were in in the day (OG) were disgusted at that. It was hopeful that it would change. The Army has not. Social programs have webbed its tentacles in every fiber of the services. It is sad and pathetic.

Response by SGT Greg Gold made May 13 at 2018 7:20 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Sun, 13 May 2018 19:20:02 -0400

Because they're better than you, and they know it.

Soooooooooo happy to be retired and not worry about this crap.

Response by SPC Spctate . made May 13 at 2018 9:17 PM

SPC Spctate . — Sun, 13 May 2018 21:17:36 -0400

My second tour i saw all my sfc and above get a bsm, except one, and he was the only sfc not only to go out the wire, but daily. He was a cook. Everyone ssg and below in my unit were quite pissed. Its all rank and politics

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made May 14 at 2018 12:18 AM

SPC Phillip Vossler — Mon, 14 May 2018 00:18:11 -0400

Forgive me for pissing in the punch bowl, but i thought BSM's and SSM's etc were for valorous actions..... not just doing paperwork etc, you know actually putting your life on the line, but im just a forever spc, wtf do i know right?

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made May 14 at 2018 1:22 AM

SSG Marshall Paul — Mon, 14 May 2018 01:22:53 -0400

Vietnam, the same. My Daddy, 1st Infantry WW One, said it was the same in France. Suck it up and soldier.

Response by SGT Brian Littrel made May 14 at 2018 2:25 AM

SGT Brian Littrel — Mon, 14 May 2018 02:25:14 -0400

The only thing to do is change the system. YOU BE THE CHANGE! Being a hard worker, organized, dedicated, combat vet and all is great for making who you are. However, should you stay in the military, or even take the experience to the civilian world. When you become the E-7,8 or 9. Or if you are an officer you can change the system to improve the value of the awards and recognition. You can take it away from non-combat mos, you can make sure your E-4 (or whatever junior enlisted or junior officer) who deserved the medal gets the medal and or V device. Medals aren't motivators, no one does an exceptional task with high risk to get a medal. Not giving the awards to those who deserve it IS demotivational. If you don't believe me, just look at all the comments. Yes, it even happened to me. My end of service award was an AAM, Downgraded from ARCOM (I saw the paperwork submitted on my behalf). But the NCO who just became an NCO 2 months before and I was E-5 (P), he received an ARCOM. He wasn't even a Squad leader and was a terrible example of an NCO. I achieved high marks on everything I did. I was irritated, to say the least. I have used that to guide me in business to make sure my employees receive credit and recognition for what they do. Even in my volunteer work, especially with Boy Scouts, I make sure my adult leaders are recognized for their exceptional work and dedication. I see it as making a difference and using that to move me on to do better, to look out for others. We as veterans are servant leaders, use what you have to help others and if necessary, change the system when you can. RAKKASAN!!

Response by 1SG Frederick Tripp made May 14 at 2018 2:28 AM

1SG Frederick Tripp — Mon, 14 May 2018 02:28:20 -0400

So true. Medals in WWII consisted of individual accomplishments. Numer of kills ect... today, all rank. Sad but true.

Response by SPC Peter Hawley made May 14 at 2018 3:12 AM

SPC Peter Hawley — Mon, 14 May 2018 03:12:18 -0400

I saw the same thing in my last unit. AAMs and higher were awarded on the basis of qualifying, passing weight standards, and passing PT. It really soured me on the whole process in my unit. The only time I got an award, I was attached to another unit and was put in for something important. I was in New Orleans after Katrina and assisted in the apprehension of suspects which attempted to kill New Orleans police officers.

Response by SGT Luis Quinones made May 14 at 2018 8:56 AM

SGT Luis Quinones — Mon, 14 May 2018 08:56:24 -0400

Im retired,but I remember when we deployed for operation desert shield/storm. On the way back we were told by our NCOIC that we just did our job and we didint get not even a letter of commendation while he got a bsm or something like that

Response by MAJ John Moran made May 14 at 2018 10:02 AM

MAJ John Moran — Mon, 14 May 2018 10:02:13 -0400

It sucks, but it’s true. The Army needs to revamp its award system

No more ARCOM w/ V, no more BSM for merit. That would be a good start.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made May 14 at 2018 10:18 AM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Mon, 14 May 2018 10:18:02 -0400

Military politics at it's finest. They want to go home & show off their BSM at the local VFW & get free beers. I was ready retire & the Navy folks wanted to give out awards to our Army unit. I was one of those selected. Why should I get one? I made sure they went to our youngest & most promising "kids". They worked harder than I did. Our battalion gave out BSMs to everybody E-7 & above no matter what. I agree, the BSM has been dishonored with the politics anymore.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made May 14 at 2018 10:29 AM

SFC Phillip Allen — Mon, 14 May 2018 10:29:58 -0400

I got so frustrated with the awards system during and after coming home from my first Iraq, 04-05. I put my two PFC's in for ARCOMs, and was told the quota had been met, that they were out of ARCOMs for the Division. What did the Army run out of ARCOM medals, no, they had set not only a rank standard, they set they set a quota of how many for that rank. So because I didn't submit the awards within the first 4 months of the deployment, then they didn't make the cut. My bad I wanted to actually see how they performed in operations for awhile before I submitted. All the remaining soldiers, that didn't get individual awards got a blanket AAM. Including myself, a SSG, as Asst BDE FSNCO for 7 months on country, and then 4 months as FIST team chief. Anyway, after returning to stateside, I wrote a letter to Army Times, got it out of system and moved on, didn't know it was gonna get published. 2 weeks later I got called to the Corps commander's, along with my ENTIRE chain of command, DIV down, that was an interesting experience walking down that hallway. Got in the CC's office, and he told me I was correct in criticism, but that the system was inherently biased and it's difficult to determine worthiness, so it either apply some kind of standard rank, responsibility, or an exceptional act; or it's completely cheapen the awards and give them everybody just because that recommended thinks their soldier(s) is worthy. I accepted that answer, at least he was honest. He also told his subordinates, my superiors in the chain of command that I had done nothing wrong or unprofessional and that was the end of it. Had a beer later that night with my 1SG, and fellow PSGs. I dod however come up on orders 4 months later. LOL

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2018 12:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 May 2018 12:54:56 -0400

I don't think you should get an award unless you actually earn it. PCS awards are garbage. Let it be earned, or not given at all.

Response by CPT Burlon Beam made May 15 at 2018 12:49 AM

CPT Burlon Beam — Tue, 15 May 2018 00:49:16 -0400

I’ve seen it more times than you can imagine. During Desert Storm my whole BN stayed in KKMC. Ate well, played volleyball never went anywhere, never did anything. Waited is what we did. My team was cross leveled to another BN and sent to Camp Freedom. The only team from our BN to see anything, set up our comms and perform our mission. Do you know how pissed I and my team was when we got home standing in formation when awards were given out and we received nothing. Leadership that never left KKMC all got BSM’s. BS without a “V” is no more than a MSM.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 4:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 May 2018 16:56:18 -0400

Sadly I'm ashamed to read some of these comments from senior leaders because they were the approving authority who just went with the "That's the way its always been done" excuse. Happily I am retired.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 8:34 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:34:14 -0400

Understand they don’t, I’m speaking from experience. It is based on criteria, heavily influenced by who recommends it and who are your allies advocating for it and politically correct criteria to make sure every group statistically has awards so that no claims discrimination and “every group is statistically represented. Its all about the metric. Particularly in Obama’s military. It’s is the way it is

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 8:35 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:35:53 -0400

Don’t forget it’s MOS based as well... I’ve heard the BS argument that combat arms soldiers “need it more for their careers” which isn’t the point of the award

Response by SPC Joseph Purcell made Nov 7 at 2018 11:28 PM

SPC Joseph Purcell — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 23:28:07 -0500

While I’ve never seen anyone in my units get a Bronze star at any rank. My rank has it privilege is sorta stupid but meant something to me.

Went to NTC as part of S3, and since I just transferred into the unit they decided to drive for the Division liaison. So I spent my weeks driving back and forth hitting the shoppett for the unit André being bored in my truck waiting for this 2LT to get through his meetings. Always no rushes to get there and back except when we’d have to move and no one telling him which roads we are supposed to go through. So op4 was as surprised as I was as we drove past.
When camp finally gets “attacked,” since I was at my vehicle waiting on the LT I became a casualty. Sitting with the rest waiting to be lift the LT finally shows and says I need to drive NOW. Says he cleared it and I needed to get moving. Made the drive in half the time it takes to get from camp to the Div TOC. The general gives him a division coin and I get the LT saying good job. He got it for getting the info faster then any other unit. I’m the one that got us there over dark roads when he kept steering me into wadis. Pissed me off that he took the credit for my driving when he couldn’t figure out a 30min drive that following his direction took us 2 hours of driving.

Response by Sgt Andrew Pouliot made Nov 7 at 2018 11:37 PM

Sgt Andrew Pouliot — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 23:37:54 -0500

I've lost a lot of respect for awards when I literally see Marines get NAMs for doing their jobs, and harder working Marines don't even get anything. The awards system is broken across the board.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Nov 8 at 2018 11:47 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 11:47:20 -0500

In Vietnam Bronze Stars were given out to almost everyone who landed there. My said during WWII soldiers, etc. and mostly senior military personnel would cut themselves to obtain a Purple Heart as they flew over the combat zone. In any case would not be concerned over obtaining a Bronze Star. For one thing the higher noncombat awards went to higher ranking military. And there is much more for a junior enlisted person to work towards than a Bronze Star. NCO Academy and other advanced training comes to mind. Get the basics out of the way. Serve with honor The bells and whistles will follow.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2018 2:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 14:03:41 -0500

Try being an E5 acting as a PSG and Squad Leader, almost always either convoy commander or assistant convoy commander, has a citation written up for a BSM only to have it turned down because, guess what, I'm only an E5

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2018 2:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 14:05:54 -0500

My last deployment I deployed as a 94F to fix the fancy electronics in an NBC-RV(stryker). I was the only person in all of ARCENT qualified to work on them. I was also made NCOIC of the Commo section (I'm not commo). As well as perform the job duties of 91B, 91C, 91D, 91J, and 91S. Expected to do 25B (network and systems admin) work and 25U work. Was flown to another country to assist a platoon with commo issues. They were trying to use SINCGARS to talk to soldiers 50+ miles away with no Retrans. I talked to a unit up there and got enough handheld satcom radios to support the missions.
I was written in for a MSM and was told it had to be downgraded because an E5 shouldn't get the same award as the E6/7s in the TOC. And they used the radios as a bullet to get the PSG a bronze star.
Just give me a coin and keep your meaningless ribbons.

Response by SGT David Jordan made Nov 8 at 2018 3:27 PM

SGT David Jordan — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 15:27:01 -0500

I was an E4 who got put in for a Bronze Star in Afganistan 03-04 for personal finding a large cache and an HVT but that award and every other one that PSG recommended got mixed as soon as he was arrested for stealing from the PX for 6 years. What the hell does his negitavie action have to do with the meritorious actions of others? Also ended up with a deployment ARCOM. I wonder how this rank gets you a medal bullshit started.

Response by SFC Robert Townsend made Nov 8 at 2018 5:01 PM

SFC Robert Townsend — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 17:01:04 -0500

Military Politics ... been that way for years puts a sour taste in your mouth when you go way above the call and they get a higher rewarded for just being there... I filled E8 positions my last 9 years and my boss put me in for a legion of Merrit it was turned down because I wasn’t a Msg. Go figure....

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2018 5:22 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 17:22:06 -0500

I agree that if you don’t have a V on the BSM, it’s probably a “check the box” medal. One of my proudest moments in the military is that in my career, I have written 3 of my E6s in for MSMs and two of them got it (the other got a comm). They would have ZERO chance of getting anything in the naval services, but a shot in the Air Force. You can imagine how strong the packages were to not be auto declined...

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Nov 8 at 2018 7:46 PM

CW4 Brian Haas — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 19:46:33 -0500

We all know this happens. Yep...got it. But here’s another thought to ponder. Could it be, that most of the time, the award is commiserate with the level of responsibility? Most E1 through E5s don’t have the responsibility that senior NCOs and officers have, leaving the wire or not.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2018 7:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 19:48:33 -0500

Don’t feel bad. You’re not alone. On my first deployment, I drove the Husky the entire tour. For those who don’t know, the Husky is a one soldier vehicle primarily used for mine and IED detection. At the time, I was a SPC. I drove the lead Husky for hundreds of Route Clearance Missions finding many IED’s along the way. I can even remember before one of our first missions the PL and PSG debating on putting an NCO in the vehicle instead, because they feared a lower enlisted being entrusted with so much responsibility. By the end of the tour, my PL asked the BC if I could have his BSM and he receive my ARCOM for my actions on mission.... let’s just say I still don’t have a BSM.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2018 8:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 20:10:23 -0500

I retired an E7 and got an ARCOM and not a MSM like everyone else got. Alot of people thought it was BS. I really didn't give two shits. I thought most of the awards I had were bull anyhow.

Response by MSgt R Roberts made Nov 8 at 2018 9:44 PM

MSgt R Roberts — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 21:44:24 -0500

Happens in all services,the higher the rank the higher the decoration. Unfortunately as all others say, it is rank based. I once was aksed when i went through SNCO academy “What does MSM stand for?” We all were dunbatruck and thought it was a stupid question. ( Meritorious Service Medal) Air Force. Someone said it and the cadre apoke out loud and proud, Youre wrong! It means Master Sgt Medal. Lost all respect for theaward system after that.

Response by CPT Derial Bivens made Nov 8 at 2018 11:06 PM

CPT Derial Bivens — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 23:06:13 -0500

Here was the pecking order of eligibility in every unit I was in from 1980-2002: E4 and below, AAM; E5/E6, ARCOM; E7 & above MSM or Bronze Star. During peacetime, 2LT, AAM; 1LT/CPT, ARCOM; MAJ/LTC, MSM; LTC/COL, LOM. During the 1st Gulf War, allotment for Bronze Stars was company commanders and 1SGs plus two officers and two E-5 and above. All other E5 and above (including officers) were eligible for the ARCOM, and E4 and below were eligible for the AAM. Not right, not fair, but I saw the written directive myself.

Response by GySgt Gunnar Ulfsax made Nov 9 at 2018 1:58 AM

GySgt Gunnar Ulfsax — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 01:58:01 -0500

I laugh every time I see a doggie in a dress uniform! Christ, 3/4 of them have a BSM with no Valor device! Leave it to the Army to muddy the respect of the BSM! Veterans of wars fought prior to Iraq/Stan actually had to EARN their BSM! The Army has made a mockery of the award system... go figure!

Response by CPL Drew Bidwell made Nov 9 at 2018 5:00 AM

CPL Drew Bidwell — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 05:00:45 -0500

My problem with it is when an individual who is sent home in a box is awarded a BS and a PH and an individual who does their job in relative safety in the wire gets a BS, I find it to be a problem. That's why there's an MSM. But it is just my opinion.

Response by SFC William Huse made Nov 9 at 2018 6:38 AM

SFC William Huse — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 06:38:24 -0500

They had to be recommended for the award. They can't just give themselves an award. Every award comes with a recommendation. Find out who recommended all these people and expose him or her to his superiors or maybe even the IG.

Response by CW2 Larry Loughlin made Nov 9 at 2018 7:41 AM

CW2 Larry Loughlin — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 07:41:44 -0500

The Bronze Star should no longer be a Merit medal. That's what the MSN is for.

I know of a lieutenant colonel in the Florida National Guard that got an ARCOM 4 his tour at AJ. That metal miraculously got upgraded to a Bronze Star Upon returning to Florida.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2018 9:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 09:31:10 -0500

FYI, look in the AR, AAMs cannot be awarded for combat,at the minimum you guys should be awarded an ARCOM. Double check...is my honest opinion

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2018 11:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:16:40 -0500

Have always thought it was BS. I have learned if you try to correct the issue you get exiled.

Response by CSM Jay Gallego made Nov 9 at 2018 2:06 PM

CSM Jay Gallego — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 14:06:23 -0500

You are correct but its up to the senior leadership to change it. While I was deployed my TF Commander and I fought against the system and were able to get approval for four deserving SPCs be awarded BSMs. At the same time...there was a Major who was scared to leave the FOB and found every excuse to stay out any risky missions that was given one. There were many other Soldiers that were more deserving than the Major but they were awarded ARCOMs or AAMs. The Major should have been awarded a MSM. He did a good job...but was all staff related. To tell you the truth there were junior Soldiers that deserved the BSM more than I did.

Response by Sgt Danny Eytcheson Sr. made Nov 9 at 2018 4:04 PM

Sgt Danny Eytcheson Sr. — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 16:04:34 -0500

And, the rich get richer.
So Discusting. I am glad I served when I did (1971-1977), USMC.
I would NOT make it in today’s military.
DISCUSTING. As a Sgt, it was my job to look out for the well being of my troops.
Semper Fi

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Nov 9 at 2018 5:31 PM

SGT Mark Rhodes — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 17:31:50 -0500

That sounds typical. This is something that will probably never change.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Nov 9 at 2018 7:21 PM

Lt Col George Roll — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 19:21:50 -0500

Responsibility level is a factor in non heroism awards. You Company Commander is responsible for hundreds of young soldiers, your Sgt Major ensures commands and policies are followed unit wide. Their decisions and judgment effect all of you.
Your efforts are very important but at a lower level of responsibility you are responsible for your self and your squad ot team. Yes you went outside the wire but if you were in direct combat you could recieve a heroism award Bronze Star with V device Arcom with V etc.
I was enlisted for my first 10 1/2 years of service and did earn a bronze star and air medal, as an E-5 from Vietnam. As an Officer I earned 4 MSMs but nothing higer than my Bronze Star.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 9 at 2018 7:57 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 19:57:28 -0500

That is selfish and not in the best interests of the soldiers who did cross the wire.

Response by 1LT Stephen Estopinal made Nov 9 at 2018 8:02 PM

1LT Stephen Estopinal — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 20:02:14 -0500

It has always been so. Get used to it.

Response by 1SG Mark Reed made Nov 9 at 2018 9:48 PM

1SG Mark Reed — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 21:48:22 -0500

It's been that way for years and years and its ass backwards, NCOs should be taking better care of the Jr troops. Without our young troops where would our military be on the battlefield? It gave me such great pleasure to recommend an E3 or E4 for a higher level commendation and recognize them for their accomplishments. It's to bad this subject isn't addresses at ever unit at every level. Rank should not have any thing to do with the award received

Response by CW5 Mark Kranz made Nov 9 at 2018 9:55 PM

CW5 Mark Kranz — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 21:55:57 -0500

A BS without a V device is just an ARCOM in a combat zone. Everything y’all are saying is right. Let me throw another situation out there. Desert Storm was first major conflict after VietNam. I received an Air Medal for a LRRS mission prior to ground war. I was proud of it until the Bde cdr forced us to have staff officers fly across the border after cease fire just so they could get an air medal.

Response by 1SG Jerry Davis made Nov 9 at 2018 10:09 PM

1SG Jerry Davis — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:09:05 -0500

I was awarded a bronze star as a corporal.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2018 7:28 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:28:24 -0500

After my first deployment as an O3 I got a Certificate of Appriciation as the BN Trans Officer while the rest of my company (I was cross leveled after a promotion to O3) didn’t get anything because the National Guard BN didn’t care for my Reserve unit! But rest assured they all got Bronze Stars! After that I didn’t care for medals much. Give me a coin, say thank you and let me get back to work! And after 2 deployments and almost 22 years I decided it was time to quit playing games and retire. The highest award I got was an MSM and I’m fine with it. I did my job and took care of my Soldiers!

Response by SPC Micheal Tinsley made Nov 10 at 2018 7:51 AM

SPC Micheal Tinsley — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:51:14 -0500

John Kerry has Bronze Star.

Enough said.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2018 9:09 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 09:09:16 -0500

I can tell you that I served with the 101st in Afghanistan in 2010. Very strict guidelines for BSM. If you could not quantify service in combat operations outside the wire then no BSM regardless of rank. Any other senior NCOs and officers were recommended for MSMs if merited. Our O6 reduced many awards for officers and NCOs who sat on the FOB. One Lt lost his foot in an IED. Second time he’d been out of the FOB. Col said he gets a Purple Heart for that action not a BSM...

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Nov 10 at 2018 10:21 AM

CPT Jeff Robinette — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 10:21:19 -0500

I was at IOAC at Ft Benning Ga when a college classmate of mine reported to a following class. I knew he was assigned to the 82nd and figures he might have gotten into Grenada.
He did, he was in one of the first aircraft to Air Land on the Island. In a couple of days later I ran into him in his greens and saw he was wearing a Bronze Star. Later on we met up at the O Club and compared notes on our duty stations.
After a couple of drinks he mentioned that he got his Bronze Star because he saw 3 Green Tracers fly over his head as he worked as the BN S-3 Air.
I have no respect for the mentality that awards medals for such foolishness.

Response by SGT Victor Rivera made Nov 10 at 2018 3:12 PM

SGT Victor Rivera — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:12:57 -0500

I was shot after saving a life down range. It's been over 10yrs since. That day a young man died 15ft from me I couldn't help him. I joined the Army at 34 I was a replacement. I came in as an E3 because I had JROTC in 4yrs of HS but got busted in basic and got to my unit an E2. This ain't about that. I came in with life's learned knowledge amd realized the Army was totally different from when it was in the late 80's. I admire my old buddies who got in then now retired or about to. The truth is I came in with a full heart despite what was happening in the world. I met some awesome men and women. My time in war was cut short on the day we got ambushed but my team leader came out alive. He was hit 6x a tough mother you know what. Despite all that the enemy still came at us after the dust settled and attacked when we were down. I was shot in the ankle un mobile but able to sit up and defend. I fragged out down went 2 bad guys. After all that it was over. We lost our medic and I was never asked once for a briefing. I was promised a BSw/V device when flown to the hospital in Balad. That was my war fight but my battles have continued since. 10yrs of gov't opiods and several surgeries later my war continues. Recently we had a 10yr anniversary. I attended with my wife and people acted like nothing ever happened and social contacts are at a minimum. I never received any honors. I mean I had 2 things on me, being a low ranked replacement and and older guy. The honor that comes from bearing rank should always overthrow the hypocrisy. I know what I did down range so do my old bros and so does my God. Having trinkets attached to documents looks great on paper and walls but, in my opinion when awards are given just to "participate" removes the true meaning and honor of the achievement.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2018 3:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:15:42 -0500

It's not always the case. I spent a year as the OPS officer for Balad's Mayor's Cell as a major, during which I worked my @$$ off, and carried my boss. My write up was for an MSM, and it was more than justified, but was downgraded by the CDR to an ARCOM. An SGM who worked as NCOIC in the PAO shop spent a tremendous amount of time outside the wire getting stories, and also got his award downgraded, while the former S3, who was relieved (without paperwork, just moved to a less demanding job), got a BSM. Some commands give out awards for all the wrong reasons.

Response by MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge made Nov 10 at 2018 6:29 PM

MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 18:29:08 -0500

Way back in 1990 we were deployed from Okinawa to Saudi for the first gulf war. When it was over our “I think he was the wing commander” and the Chief Cmsgt were both awarded the bronze star. None of us ever heard as much as a fire cracker go off let alone being anywhere close to any combat situation. I just never saw any actions from either of them above and beyond the call of duty. I never understood why they were awarded that award.

Response by CW3 Robert Haffly made Nov 10 at 2018 7:26 PM

CW3 Robert Haffly — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:26:26 -0500

Yes, it happens. My supervisor (a MAJ) was awarded a MSM (peacetime equivalent to the BSM) for work that I had done, it was even cited in the citation. I was also put in for a MSM on change of command and it was turned down because I was a company grade officer and only field grade officers get the MSM or higher unless they retire (I did get one then). Mobilization for Desert Storm was even more of a shit storm for awards. Virtually every soldier mobilized got some type of award from the AAM to an MSM (by rank, or course). I think they ran the local supply out of medals. I turned one down for that as I had already made up my mind to retire at the earliest opportunity, and I didn't need anymore cheap awards.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Nov 10 at 2018 8:37 PM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:37:14 -0500

When my unit deployed, many Soldiers convoyed to Iraq from Kuwait as an Engineering force to help with the Baghdad airport, my group of guys were always left in tent city ro provide support.. we literally did nothing more than our daily job during that time of cease-fire i would say.. I was told to put my guys in for awards.. I was like "why?".. My section encountered no heavy situations so i did not feeo we were entitled to an Award.. yet they made me write them.. and of course they ended up being downgraded.. lol..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2018 9:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:56:32 -0500

I got a BSM during OEF 08-09 and it reads SSG on it, three of my SGT's also got BSM's. We broke the rule is what I'm saying, it's not always the case but it is the vast majority of the time questioned as a rank based issue.

Response by SFC Chad Ambrose made Nov 10 at 2018 10:17 PM

SFC Chad Ambrose — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:17:52 -0500

Not just rank based, has anyone else ever noticed thosecloser to command seem to get better awards as well?

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Nov 11 at 2018 1:52 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 13:52:56 -0500

A major rub for many lower enlisted. And the military wonders why they have retention issues? I picked up E4 on my overseas deployment. My section co-leader, squad leader, and XO all nominated me for a Silver Star. I got an ARCOM instead.

A PFC (at the time) medic got an AAM for a firefight where he carried 2 US soldiers and 1 ANP soldier to safety after they got wounded. All three died from their wounds. 7 years later he got his AAM upgraded to BSM w/ V. Too late as he separated less than a year later.

Response by SFC Jerry Jones made Nov 11 at 2018 8:09 PM

SFC Jerry Jones — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 20:09:45 -0500

As a SFC Plt Sgt who did get outside the wire, I refused my BSM and received an ARCOM instead. I told my Plt Ldr and Btry Cmdr I wouldn't accept anything higher than what my Soldiers received. I was the only E7 and up th on t didnt receive a BSM. MY MEN DESERVED A HELL OF A LOT BETTER and it ticked me off when all my award recommendations were downgraded.

Response by PVT Rich Burns made Nov 11 at 2018 9:13 PM

PVT Rich Burns — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 21:13:24 -0500

I don't want to step o. toes, I wasnt rhere, as a matter of fact I hit a sweer spot, Deseet Shield had been going for about 2 months before. My training took 6 months, spent just shy of 3 yesrs Active Duty and was Out. meer weeks before my Unit got called for Egypt. I digress, back to buisness.
I joined for 2main reasons My Turn, Following in rhe footsteps of my Heros( Grandfather WWII. Father Viernam). I didn't join to get Medals and Ribbons, I feel if that's why you Enlisted. then it was for the wrong reasons. Who cares what Medal/ Ribbon someone else got, You do your job because you Love your Country and want it to remain free.
This is just my perspective, I've had a food long while to think about these things. Just be glad that you did something very few people have done, you've signed your life away to help protect us, For that I call you Brother and those should be the best Rewards you can have.

Response by PO2 Steven Keller made Nov 11 at 2018 10:38 PM

PO2 Steven Keller — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:38:26 -0500

It cheapens any award

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Nov 11 at 2018 10:50 PM

1SG Larry Taggart — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:50:51 -0500

The Awards system is flawed and has been flawed for 40yrs. I was told as a young SGT when I was submitting one of my soldiers for an award that the award I was submitting him for was not consumerant with his rank.

Response by SPC Erik Thompson made Nov 12 at 2018 12:45 AM

SPC Erik Thompson — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 00:45:26 -0500

First Gulf War, I was stationed with an MI BN. in Germany. There was a SFC who said, and I quote, "If the Republican guard comes over that dune I'm hauling ass the other direction." Same guy failed to qualify at the range with his M-16. Came back from Desert Storm with a Bronze Star.

Response by SGT Stephen Crawford made Nov 12 at 2018 9:03 AM

SGT Stephen Crawford — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:03:37 -0500

I recieved a Bronze star in OIF 04/05 I was a E-5 the next lowest rank was a E-8 or a 0-3. I ran convoys from Alasad to Trebil on the Jordan border to Al Kiem, Al Asad and on occasion Balad. I was a living organ donor on 28 August 2000. I was supposed to be a property book NCO but one of my soldiers got elected to run the trucks. So away I went, never allow your soldier to do something you wouldn't

Response by SSG Henry Martinelli made Nov 12 at 2018 10:52 AM

SSG Henry Martinelli — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:52:53 -0500

awards lost their meaning to me during desert shield/storm. all sfc got bronze stars, to jnclude the cook for havi g t rats ready all tje time. all ssg's got arcoms, all Sgt's got aams and e-4 and below got a cetificate.(which i refered to jokingly as a pat on the back)

Response by SSG Ken Bullivant made Nov 12 at 2018 4:47 PM

SSG Ken Bullivant — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 16:47:15 -0500

In my opinion there is only one type of Bronze Star award and that is with the "V" device. All the REFS and Fobbies getting Bronze Stars for service is BS. And yes we had the same ritual of who was going to be given the award and it followed the same formula stated in many other posts commanders and senior NCOs. I served in a cavalry unit and all NCOs were awarded their cavalry spurs overlooking all the E1s through E4s who served the same as everyone else.My feeling is the award system be taken out of the chain of command and names and ranks should be committed from the award application. Let's make the system fair for all military members to earn what they deserve rather than play the political check the box for career advancement.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2018 7:39 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:39:45 -0500

I was PSG on deployment as a SSG and lead the Platton through mutiple fire fights and the SFC in the platoon that stayed back got the bronze star.. lost all respect for any awards after

Response by SGT Gary Lapp made Nov 12 at 2018 9:54 PM

SGT Gary Lapp — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 21:54:37 -0500

Read McMaster's "Derliction of Duty" to see how LBJ got his awards.

Response by SGT Scotty Byrd made Nov 13 at 2018 8:15 AM

SGT Scotty Byrd — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 08:15:42 -0500

I know that feeling all to well. I was in the Army’s 73th CBIT Group In 1983-1985. I worked on the OV-1D Mohawk. We keep our mission capable aircraft already status. I worked on the flight line as a 67H10 we worked around the clock and no one one flight line got Achievement medals but soldiers who worked in the back shops got them, some had been there last than a month. Our Senior Nco’s told us that we were just doing our jobs.
I never understood how someone that was there last that a month got a metal, when we worked months to get our flight line status up. If we would have had the parts and the systems worked right we would have had a higher status. Ended up getting one in another unit for less work than we did back in those days. So I understand what is going on here.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Dec 18 at 2018 11:58 AM

SPC Steven Depuy — Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:58:17 -0500

Pretty much was I saw happen to my son. Patrol 6 nights a week between Kalsu and Baghdad, survive 5 IED hits, did all kinds of great stuff like recover a Navy drone that had crashed. When its over, ARCOM's for all. All the bronze stars went to the people who never left the wire. I suppose at this point it much be a deal where you need em for promotion points, so they give them to each other. But man, it does not seem right to this old fart. But its not like anyone cares.

Response by SSG Randy Talbot made Dec 19 at 2018 12:02 AM

SSG Randy Talbot — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 00:02:30 -0500

Two quick stories. First from WWII, 101st Airborne. Policy was only one Medal of Honor would be awarded for Normandy. That went to LTC Cole who let a bayonet charge and was killed. Captain Richard Winters was put in for one but was downgraded to a DSC.

While in Kuwait in 2003, our CG received a BSM, but his driver and Aide de Camp received ARCOMS. It seemed very strange to me considering the driver brought the CG everywhere he went to earn the BSM and his aide covered him during toes actions. Which were nothing.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2018 12:57 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 00:57:35 -0500

Total bullshit!!! Loser leaders failing to take care of Soldiers first!!!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2018 7:36 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:36:19 -0500

It's ranked based except if you get KIA. We had a cw3 ordered by theater command to inspect our vehicles cause of the level of the mission & he didn't. He just asked the shop what was up. He got a bronze. That was my 2nd tour. My 1st tour a 1Lt was incharge of a mission that went so screwed up that it would have got a couple dozen troops killed if we had got attacked. He was relieved of all command level ops. He just became a body to do paperwork. He got a bronze.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2018 1:18 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:18:36 -0500

Really it's just based off your Coc and how much they can get away from that old school way of award recommendation. It's always about "well when I was a specialist or when I was a sergeant" mentality. If we could change that perspective, everyone would be awarded what they deserve and not make it about rank. I had good leadership in the 82nd and was awarded the BSM (yes, as a SSG) for what I did (Not bragging). Then again, I've also be awarded lesser than deserved but nonetheless awarded.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2019 6:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 18:13:43 -0500

If it’s not a Bronze Star with V it’s worthless these days anyway. End of the day nobody will care about their staff chest candy.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2019 9:42 AM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 09:42:38 -0500

Not true. As a Navy officer I served with the 18th ABC in Iraq, and couldn't believe they awarded E-5 and E-6 clerks the BS, and they never went outside the fence. For all practical purposes, the Army has turned the BS into a good conduct medal. It no longer has any meaning.

Response by SGT Tony Spencer made Jan 5 at 2019 4:03 PM

SGT Tony Spencer — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 16:03:41 -0500

I was in Iraq 04-05 and 07-08. Both deployments I received an ARCOM, while the Sq. Ldrs received an ARCOM w V and all the plt daddy's received the BSM. 07-08 we drive HETS and hauled tanks and Strykers along with any thing and everything else that was big, heavy and needed wherever, in and out of shit areas. As a HET driver we are just a big ass slow ass target with (usually) very valuable cargo on our backs. As such we were repeatedly bombed, shot amd just attacked in general. Because where ever they need tanks asap, it usually wasnt a great area. And when we hauled em ouy causr they were screwed up from fighting, once again, it wasnt a good area. So after a year straight of doing this, without any up-armor I might add, around mid 05 we started to get up-armored vehicles in theater, we just had a 1/4 inch steel plate welded to the doors in the mean time, and getting shot up and blown up on the regular, We were the 2nd Combat H.E.T. Unit lol, I do believe that we were the only combat 88 mike truck drivers at the time lol. So anyways after doing the same jobs with these same people in the end all soldiers in the platoon regardless of rank got ARCOMS, SQD Ldrs got ARCOM w V device, and PLT SGTS got BSM's. So in my opinion, we all basically got participation trophies, not awards as they didnt mean much to myself after we figured out who got what, according to their rank, not tneir achievements... 2nd deployment as gun truck operators for 15 months and numerious firefights while escorting these same big, heavy, slow trucks, and making sure they all made it there and back as they left. And wouldnt ya know it..... EXACT SAME setup, Arcoms for the workers, ARCOM w V device for SQD Ldrs, and BSM's for plt daddy's... So needless to say I dont get very impressed not when I see someone in dress uniform w BSM's and such. And that sucks because there's a few recipients that actually earned theirs. But the luster is gone cause theve been handed out like candy

Response by CPL Matt Shoemaker made Jan 5 at 2019 9:04 PM

CPL Matt Shoemaker — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 21:04:40 -0500

I spent 6 years as a junior enlisted individual that it was either my squad leader would put me in for an award, but my platoon sergeant (who hardly ever saw or interacted with me outside of formation) would pitch it because "he didn't see the point in awarding me because he never saw any of these accomplishments with his own eyes.

Then fast forward to my next unit that loved me because I was their go to guy for anything, and I mean anything. My 1SG would tell my squad leader to put me in for awards so I could start building my packet, and this SSG would say "it's part of his job to go above and beyond." So I said the hell with it and left with 4 ribbons that were automatically awarded and that was it

Response by SFC Ryan Berg made Jan 5 at 2019 10:41 PM

SFC Ryan Berg — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 22:41:00 -0500

Yep, seen this happen. Some officers were ashamed to get awards, while the true warfighters got an ARCOM...

Response by SGT Peter Gallagher made Jan 5 at 2019 11:45 PM

SGT Peter Gallagher — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 23:45:44 -0500

I received an Air Medal for my last deployment, it was also my easiest deployment. Not to mention all the coins that went along with flying do much brass. Never had I received so much recognition for doing so little.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 6 at 2019 10:09 AM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 10:09:30 -0500

There are several awards that are given for merit or achievement. The bronze star is issued for that purpose or with a V device as a valor award. So the difference in an achievement or merit award is generally based on rank. The assumption is lower ranks are generally directed to do things higher ranks set up what is done and who does it, more responsibility and authority hence a higher award for good work. One can assume that the higher rank received his award because he had good people under him doing their jobs well.0If things tuned sour under him no merit or achievement award and it may be over something he really had no control over but it was in his shop/unit therefor also his fault.

Response by MSG Patrick Guillet made Jan 6 at 2019 4:46 PM

MSG Patrick Guillet — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:46:57 -0500

Bunch of cry babies, I didn't get this, he got this, suck it up and drive on, do better job and you might have your sorry asses recognize.

Response by 1LT Ryan Welch made Jan 7 at 2019 1:26 PM

1LT Ryan Welch — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:26:57 -0500

When I was in Iraq, OIF III as a platoon leader in 2005, everyone on my team got a bronze star while in country, from the privates to my senior NCO who was a SSG.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 2:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:53:05 -0500

Deployment as a SGT: ARCOM, with an NCOER bullet that identified I was the most requested NCO in my position brigade wide. Every Senior NCO got a Bronze Star, to include those who never left the safety and security of their tent.

Deployment as a SFC: Worked my ass of (as many do too). Was told I'd get an end of tour DMSM. CoS recommended an upgrade (so I was told). No V device, but received a BSM. I was outside the wire most days, and the write up easily supports a CAB (no CAB awarded).

Totally earned in both cases, in spite of no V device. Definitely felt I got screwed over, given the situation as a SGT. Were I a Senior NCO, I am 100% certain I'd have been awarded a BSM.

Lastly, the award has been so cheapend. I wanted to scream out in formation last set of wartime awards were issued at my current unit: a supply sergeant and a mail clerk received BSMs for their end of tour awards in Kuwait. Even if they are the best in the DoD at their job, they are in no way deserving of a BSM. A SGT I also know, shot several times: ARCOM w/V and PH.

Supplies and mail in Kuwait: BSM Get shot several times in Iraq: ARCOM w/ V. How does that even happen?

Response by PO2 Higgins Charles made Jan 7 at 2019 3:39 PM

PO2 Higgins Charles — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 15:39:24 -0500

Talked to a Marine grunt when is in the hospital. He was in all kinds of firefights in Iraq. SAS blown up by an RPG in a battle. Lost a leg and arm was really messed up. Along with a ton of other issues. He was near the end of his deployment. His unit came home soon after he was medevaced. He was at Bethesda, but transfered to Portsmouth NMC for continued treatment.
He said he received a Navy achievement medal with a V. For a battle he was in. He was pissed about the supply major that never left the wire and put himself in for a Silver Star. He got it.
Messed up

Response by Sgt Matt Owens made Jan 7 at 2019 6:52 PM

Sgt Matt Owens — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:52:13 -0500

Let's face it, there are a lot of "you put me in for this medal and I'll put you in for one, too" conversations in the officer ranks. LCpl Gruntwithapack doesn't have that option.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 11:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 23:29:37 -0500

I can understand higher ranks generally receiving higher awards for overseeing all of the soldiers in a mission. But if your soldier did an exceptional job (even if it's just doing their job) and you can prove it, then they deserve those higher awards.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 12:15 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 00:15:57 -0500

When it comes to awards, its a matter of if your unit likes you or not. There was a shooting in my apartment complex and i herd the shots and went out with my weapon. A civilian had been shot 4 times. After i chased the guy off i went to check on the person and provided first aid for the 2 people who had been shot. Used one of my turnicates and some gause pads. Was published in the local newspaper and everything. Told my unit right after it happened. They told me and i quote them " you are a idiot". Which if im not mistaken that merits a soldiers medal. But hey it is what it is. Commads play favorites and i was never one of their favorites.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 1:08 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 01:08:46 -0500

It is a bit unleveled for other services as well. Navy BSMs can't be awarded by the theater commander, they require concurrence from OPNAV staff back at the Pentagon and they treat a BSM like it's "V" or nothing. If disapproved it becomes an ARCOM. I've seen DMSMs awarded for operating outside the wire on a weekly basis in combat conditions. Nice to know that those getting COMs and below can now at least get the "C" device to distinguish the combat service from a general COM. They can't put a "C" on a MSM/DMSM as that is considered a BSM.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 6:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 06:56:42 -0500

They refused to call my MEB award a retirement award, 90% disability rating I guess I just ETS'd after 9.5 years cause I felt like not competing the last 3 years on my contract

Response by SFC Luis Colon made Jan 8 at 2019 9:57 AM

SFC Luis Colon — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 09:57:28 -0500

Not all SFC and above gets Bronze Stars I did two deployments with the same unit, I was one of them that didn’t get one in neither of the deployments, everyone one on my shop got bronze stars for just been there and taking long lunch breaks and going to the green beans for coffee, I admit that the we didn’t deserve a big award I got an ARCOM on one deployment and MSM on my second, what it really boiled my blood was for a snot nose 2LT spend only three months on deployment before we rotate back got awarded a BSM, no one wants to admit Bronze Stars are given like candy to them, ohhh don’t forget the ass kissers that can’t never do wrong,,,,Yeap they got BSMs too, a lot of good Soldiers deserves more than they got and when the re-enlist ment came up, they walked away, I know they would’ve become great Leaders....

Response by SFC Jim Wolfgram made Jan 8 at 2019 10:26 AM

SFC Jim Wolfgram — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:26:44 -0500

I sat on the battalion awards board when I was in Iraq and the battalion commander often sat in on our deliberations and several times stated his field grade officers on his staff were always going to be entitled to Bronze Stars for their service regardless whether they ever left the wire or not. And he frequently downgraded junior enlisted Soldiers who were out in for MSMs and Bronze Stars. It was his mindset and he made it clear to all of us.....

Response by SGT Nathan Vitartas made Jan 8 at 2019 11:20 AM

SGT Nathan Vitartas — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 11:20:39 -0500

I called out my platoon sergeant an E7 did nothing other than watch movie in a air conditioned office. While we all busted our butts in the hot sun. Needless to say it didn't go over well with him.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2019 10:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 22:17:00 -0400

I don't think I or the SFC's deserverd a BSM. I've never fired my weapon in combat. As an engineer I was close. Finger on the trigger locked and loaded but never pulled. I directed my Gunner to take out a kid that jumped on the back of the MRAP in front of us but he couldn't train his weapon low enough. I thought he was planting an IED. Nope, stealing medical supplies out of the WALK. Probably had a sick mom. My CLP never got blown the fuck up but my battle buddies did. My birds never got shot out of the sky, but seal team 6's did. Rocket landed in a spot I've stood a hundred times. I was joking about not hitting the deck when the alarms started going off and the blast was less than a hundred yards away and a Tcn's blood and guts were dripping and sliding down the wall. Technicaly I guess I'm a noncombatant, but I've never expected a medal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2019 2:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 May 2019 14:52:27 -0400

Don't forget about the posthumous awarded medals as well. For example: PFC Christopher Alcozer was posthumously awarded the DSC for being KIA while carrying a wounded comrade out of harm's way during a firefight in a suspected and confirmed Al-Qaeda safehouse. Had he survived, ARCOM w/ V device. However, I very much would've rather him survived that encounter.

Response by SFC Don Ward made May 16 at 2019 3:29 PM

SFC Don Ward — Thu, 16 May 2019 15:29:39 -0400

The way of the world - RHIP. In Germany in 1987 as an E-5 and listened to a conversation the Brigade Commander (I was his driver) and the Brigade S-1 had about the awards budget for the next FY. I couldn't believe there was a budget for awards.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made May 17 at 2019 8:31 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Fri, 17 May 2019 08:31:34 -0400

If it's any consolation, (and I'm pretty sure it isn't), it's been this way a long time. When I was in Vietnam, the NCO's in my unit were awarded Bronze Stars, E4 and below, ARCOM's. Since I didn't plan on staying in, it didn't bother me. All I cared about was returning home with all the essential body equipment and functions I'd left with.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2019 1:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:25:45 -0500

My ol, 1sgt and co didn’t want me to get the same award as they got for deploying. My was for an operation. As I have mentioned many times, I don’t need a piece of material or plastic to know what I did

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Dec 21 at 2019 1:44 PM

SSG Matthew Koehler — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:44:51 -0500

Just wait till you guys get out and hit civilian employment. You could be a great soldier, but still get looked over for promotions at your civilian job...

Response by MSgt John O'Connor made Dec 21 at 2019 2:44 PM

MSgt John O'Connor — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 14:44:35 -0500

In nearly all the services, anyone below E6 or E7 is ignored unless he, or she, does something absolutely spectacular. The military is, was, and always will be for the higher ranking enlisted and officers, and they usually ignore the lower ranking enlisted.

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Dec 21 at 2019 4:09 PM

Sgt William Margeson — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:09:17 -0500

Reminds me of certain Army Units in Viet Nam. They all came out with a package; Bronze Star wit V' Air Medals, and Commendation Medals. Officer always receive higher award than enlisted. Sgt gets Bronze, officer gets silver for same act. Why ??? I know, but would take too long to explain. Life is not fair

Response by PO3 David Davis made Dec 21 at 2019 5:33 PM

PO3 David Davis — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 17:33:19 -0500

No award should be a awarded differently based on rank.

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Dec 21 at 2019 5:50 PM

1SG John Aaron — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 17:50:31 -0500

Yep, I’ve seen this nonsense my entire career. The Soldier’s actions are what should count, not the rank.

Response by SP5 Ward Posey made Dec 21 at 2019 6:05 PM

SP5 Ward Posey — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 18:05:53 -0500

Happened in 'Nam too. Standard procedure in '67-'68. Brass got Bronze Stars, EMs got Army Commendation Medals. Like the guy below says, unless a "V" is attached it doesn't mean squat.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Dec 21 at 2019 9:35 PM

SFC Don Ward — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 21:35:55 -0500

Politics

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Dec 21 at 2019 10:36 PM

SFC Phillip Allen — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 22:36:17 -0500

I once had a long conversation with the 3 Corps commander in his office, after I was ordered to report to him with my entire chain of command, as a SSG. I had written a letter to Army Times about the disparity of how awards are recommended and approved. Long story short, he confirmed there is no rank attached to a particular awards, only acts and level of responsibility depending on type of award being recommended for. And after that he also confirmed the unwritten and widely understood policy of ensuring that as the status of the award goes up, so must the rank, don't want to "cheapen" the value of an award, but there are, of course, always exceptions for exceptional acts and bravery, the exception give the false impression that there is fairness in the process.