Why do enlisted stop at E-9, but Officers keep going O-5-O11

SGT Thomas Sullivan — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:49:25 -0400

Just a quick question, some of this touches on previous posts but thought I should raise this as an issue in my mind. As an officer gains rank/responsibility at the LTC and higher, they gain command positions at the Battalion (300-1000 Soldiers) , Brigade (3000-5000), Division (10,000-15,000), Corp (20,000-45,000), Army (50,000+), MACOM/COCOM. At every level here, there is usually a rank/pay progression for officers. Attached at the hip of every one of these command positions is an E-9. Not an E-10, not an E-11, and sure as hell no pay boost for the increase in responsibilities.  Why is this? Why are the SMA, MCPON, SMMC, CMSAF, MCPOCG still only E-9's with E-9 pay? Look at their position of responsibility as well as their visibility to each of their forces? Warrant officers fit in here somehow, but i'm not sure. The DoD needs to pull itself out of its outdated rank concept adopted from the British Military of the Pr-Revolutionary era. This structure was established based on a Class system of land owning lords from a feudal nation. Just a rant, but one I think could merit discussion.

Response by MAJ Samuel Weber made Oct 30 at 2013 11:18 AM

MAJ Samuel Weber — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:18:10 -0400

Actually the Senior Enlisted of each service does receive special pay for their position. The SMA base pay is over $7,700, nearly $300 more than a CSM with 40 years (Which no CSM has because their RCP is 32 years unless they have been nominated to serve with a General Officer). The officer pay scale only goes to O-10 (4-star). I do agree that each service should be authorized one E-10, the SMA.

As for comparing our system to the British, you may be a little off. The British have less enlisted pay grades and they promote much slower than we do. Also, their OR-8/9 (NATO Rank meaning "Other ranks") are considered Warrant Officers and have surpasses the NCO ranks.

What do you think creating different Sergeant Major ranks would accomplish? There duties would still be the same, they would advise the commander. When an officer achieves the rank of General (which less than 1% of the officer corps achieves, and officers only make up 13% of the total force, from O-1 thru O-10) they have huge levels of responsibility. Their influence on an organization is far reaching. Since a CSM is an adviser what would be the purpose of having a higher rank? A LTC can't be a BDE commander and be the Senior Commander to other LTC who are Battalion Commanders. Even though CSMs exert tremendous influence they are not the raters of their subordinate CSMs. I think the NCO sometimes forgets that. It is frustrating to see a company 1SG running around doing what the BN CSM is telling him/her to do, yet he/she is rated by the Company Commander and Senior Rated by the BN Commander?

Would you recommend a change in duties? Should the scope of their duties be expanded.

Response by SGT Thomas Sullivan made Oct 31 at 2013 3:18 PM

SGT Thomas Sullivan — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 15:18:50 -0400

Any insight from Senior NCOs out there?

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 22 at 2013 6:50 PM

SFC James Baber — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 18:50:14 -0500

This has been an argument and question from enlisted ranks for many years Thomas, when I 1st made E5 during Desert Shield, I remember being around senior NCOs at the time that brought up the exact question based on the then current SMA, who was doing much more for the enlisted SMs than any one prior or any other E9 within the ranks.

The proposal of E-10 has actually been brought up quite a few times during the 90s by not only enlisted side of the house, but also by the Chiefs of staff for each branch as well for their then current counterparts, so it is not a new concept, but it has always been shot down for a litany of BS excuses each time. Maybe someday.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Oct 17 at 2014 3:55 PM

SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 15:55:16 -0400

AR 614-200 provides the following guidance:

(5) Command sergeants major whose raters and senior raters are general officers (GOs). If rater is—
(a) Brigadier general, SD–1 is authorized.
(b) Major general, SD–2 is authorized.
(c) Lieutenant general, SD–3 is authorized.
(d) General, SD–4 is authorized.

So special duty pay is authorized.

I hope this information is still current.

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made Aug 21 at 2021 11:59 PM

SSG Bob Teachout — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:59:54 -0400

How about splitting the E-9 rank 1) E-9a - BN/BDE CSM --- 2) E-9b Div/Cor CSM 3) E-9c FA/MACOM -- with a pay raise for a/b/& c.