Why do E-3's and below feel like they don't have respect E-4?

2014-12-16T09:12:52-05:00

I feel I know the answer to this question but I want others opinions? Especially SNCO's.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 9:23 AM

2014-12-16T09:23:53-05:00

It all boils down to experience, maturity, intelligence and maybe jealousy. How many ways is there to skin a cat? Why is your way better? Even though we may complete the task differently, we still end up with the same result. If I am the E-4 and I have to answer for the task, then I need to have a full understanding of that task. A huge part of being a good leader is being a better follower. You will be amazed at how much a person can learn when their mouth is closed and their ears are open. All too often young warriors are too busy talking because they THINK they have the answers instead of listening to someone who actually KNOWS the answers. This is not the case with everyone of course. You do have warriors that will admit that they do not know and will take the time to listen and learn and you will find that those warriors become the best leaders. It's all part of the learning curve SrA Hudson. Mentor, Mentor, Mentor!!

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 16 at 2014 9:27 AM

2014-12-16T09:27:47-05:00

The book answer is they should. Each rank has general and specific responsibilities outlined in the Enlisted Force Structure.

Here is the excerpt:

3.2. Specific Junior Enlisted Airman Responsibilities.

3.2.1. Airman Basic (AB). ABs are primarily adapting to the requirements of the military
profession, acquiring knowledge of military customs, courtesies, and Air Force standards, as well as striving to attain occupational proficiency. Once at their first duty station, they perform basic tasks under close supervision. ABs operate at the tactical expertise level of leadership. The official term of address is Airman Basic or Airman.

3.2.2. Airman (Amn). Amn, while still learning and adapting to the military profession, are
expected to understand and conform to military standards, customs, and courtesies. Amn begin to show job proficiency at basic tasks and still require significant supervision and support. Amn operate at the tactical expertise level of leadership. The official term of address is Airman.

3.2.3. Airman First Class (A1C). A1Cs fully comply with Air Force standards and devote their
efforts to the mastery of skills required in their career fields and the military profession while
becoming effective team members. After a short time at their first duty station, they are often skilled on numerous tasks. Continued supervision is essential to the A1C’s ongoing technical and professional growth. They typically earn their 5-skill level at this grade. A1Cs operate at the tactical expertise level of leadership. The official term of address is Airman First Class or Airman.

3.2.4. Senior Airman (SrA). SrA commonly perform as skilled technicians and trainers. It is
essential for SrA to begin developing supervisory and leadership skills through progressive
responsibility on the job, completion of ALS, individual study, and mentoring by their supervisors and others. When they perform as trainers and supervisors, SrA strive to establish themselves as effective first-line supervisors through the maximum use of guidance and assistance from the NCOs and SNCOs who lead them. SrA may serve as reporting officials upon completion of ALS. SrA operate at the tactical expertise level of leadership. The official term of address is Senior Airman or Airman.

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2618/afi36-2618.pdf

Now having said that, there is two major reasons why AB/Amn/A1C's don't feel they have to respect a SrA more than a rank peer.

1. SrA do not leave up to their responsibilities outlined above. If acts like an A1C, talks like an A1C...it will get treated like an A1C.

2. NCO's, SNCO's and Officers generally treat all Airmen in the Airmen Tier as interchangeable parts.

A more recent additional cause is the simple fact that seeing someone that is an AB/Amn outside of basic training/tech school there is a general perception that the person did something wrong. I teach at the First Term Airmen's Center and we have maybe 1-2 folks out of a average class size of 25 that are NOT A1C's coming in the door due to college or signing for a 6 year enlistment and the average age is getting older. These factors together mean that you might have someone who has upwards of a year experience on someone, but because they have college or a 6 year enlisted are a SrA.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2015 12:12 PM

2015-01-02T12:12:08-05:00

In any formation you can find those people who were given one promotion too many, and those people have difficulty gaining and maintaining respect.

With the SPC, the biggest problem, I think, is the automatic advancement. Anyone who can stick out TIS and TIG requirements only has to be able to pass the APFT to gain that advancement, no demonstrations of leadership, competency, or education required. We wait to spring that on troops all at once for SGT.

In addition, there is a tendency among some leaders to lump all junior enlisted together, regardless of grade. The respect is much more likely to follow if more senior leaders would make the distinction in assignments, additional duties, expectations....

Personally, I think the Air Force got it backward by eliminating the E-4 Sergeant rank. In the Army, I'd like to do away with the Specialist rank entirely. E-4 would be an earned promotion to Corporal, which would (should) be treated as a genuine junior NCO.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2015 4:55 AM

2015-03-21T04:55:55-04:00

I think it boils down to a similar concept of there is no rank among lieutenants. I would imagine the same sort of is applied in our service. as many have mentioned we no longer have the buck sergeant. As an E4 you probably were buds with many of the E3's and lower before your promotion. So many may see you still as just another airman. Not agreeing with this but our culture has sort of ingrained it. As an SRA you are still an Airman in their eyes. So they see you as just another airman with one more stripe. This is the human socio reason behind the behavior. How do you bridge away from it? Here is a leadership lesson. Respect is earned and not given, regardless of rank. Granted you have to respect the rank and not the person, but sometimes people blur the lines when they feel they are still your equal.

How do you eventually earn the respect of the rank? You must act like you have the moral authority to be in that rank. Airman are not the only ones in this box. LT's are as well, on this site there are many conversations on how useless the LT is because they are the know nothing fucking new guy. In order to get away from the stigma you need to separate yourself from the title. If you want to be respected by your peers and subordinates you need to do everything you can to be the most technically proficient person in the squadron. You need to become the go to guy in your job at your level. One other thing is by acting like a leader and being the first to lean forward to do the job. By doing simple things like being on time with tasks and showing that you go above and beyond what is expected you will be noticed by your seniors. This will matriculate down to your subordinates. If your senior leadership calls on you to be the one to take on the tasks it will be noticed by those lower ranking than you. This is called having a legitimate authority. It wont be the rank, but your expertise that will make you the example for others to follow.

One last and final advice. Don't think of yourself as an Airman, but a Staff in training. Ignore the background noise of the chaff. Do your job and do it well and you will start to garner the respect for those around you.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made May 1 at 2016 8:36 PM

2016-05-01T20:36:23-04:00

Respect is earned, not given.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2017 3:29 AM

2017-07-07T03:29:05-04:00

Probably because of the E4 mafia, or you have the person who is a rank and not a leader. Plus I have saw a lot of E4's get away with murder and E3's get slaughtered over the same things that the E4's should have been in trouble with but never saw one MFR, nor LOC.

Response by GySgt Bill Smith made Jul 28 at 2017 3:27 PM

2017-07-28T15:27:38-04:00

Try that shit in the Marine Corps.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2019 4:07 AM

2019-04-02T04:07:21-04:00

In my experience in professional leadership outside the military and my (limited) experience in the military, I think we hand out E-2 through E-4 ranks like participation trophies. Most people get in as a PFC or SPC through waivers and loopholes. I feel like not enough people actually earn their ranks through proper time and discipline. If we made everyone start at E-1 and FORCE them to work their way through the ranks, then E-4 SPC would actually mean something. Although another response from a 1st SGT made a good point. Lets eliminate SPC entirely and make E-4 a permanent NCO position so people cant just get it with TIG.