Why aren't people taking "stolen valor" more seriously? I feel they are downplaying this. Is impersonating a LEO a crime? Why? Same, same?

SGT Charles W. — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:03:27 -0400

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made May 24 at 2016 1:06 PM

CPO Joseph Grant — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:06:18 -0400

Because these days everybody gets a ribbon for everything. If you want to play soldier that's no different. I find it disgusting myself but the fact is is that those awards that we earned are not recognized as anything more than a Boy Scout ribbon for best camper. Unlike earlier generations most people these days have no real ties to the military and no clue what we actually do.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 1:08 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:08:49 -0400

Because people don't respect the uniform anymore, in the same way that they don't respect the flag. To them, it's just cloth unfortunately.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 24 at 2016 1:09 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:09:00 -0400

Because if its civilians they think it looks cool to have all that stuff, even though they don't know what it all stands for.

Response by SPC Terry Martin made May 24 at 2016 1:10 PM

SPC Terry Martin — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:10:27 -0400

WE should! Here's the LAW for Vermont:

13 § 3002. Impersonation of officer

A person who impersonates or attempts to impersonate a sheriff, deputy sheriff, constable, police officer, fish and game warden, or any other state, county or town officer shall:

(1) for the first offense, be imprisoned not more than six months or fined not more than $500.00, or both;

(2) for the second offense and subsequent offenses, be imprisoned not more than two years or fined not more than $1,000.00, or both. (Amended 1981, No. 223 (Adj. Sess.), § 23; 1995, No. 146 (Adj. Sess.), § 2.)

Response by SSG Warren Swan made May 24 at 2016 1:12 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:12:10 -0400

Supreme Court said it comes under 1A. We're military. We don't pick and choose what amendments we defend, we defend em all.....even when we know something is wrong with it. Also those "make em famous" videos on FB took some of the thunder away from going after folks. People were embarrassing themselves and the military going after folks who were elderly and AUTHORIZED to wear the ribbons and medals on the uniform. How does that make us look? Marines physically attacking another Nam Marine over the fact they "thought" he wasn't authorized? A Marine at a bar gets beat up for not having his ID card....AFTER he told him he EAD'd earlier, so he wouldn't have an ID card. Yelling in a college courtyard about a Ranger tab? Chasing a "homeless" man across the street and you're a CSM? We have to be better than those who want to be US but cannot be US. To do this, we maintain who and what we are. How we got there, and soon enough the fakers will show themselves on here and in real life.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 1:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:14:18 -0400

Why are you taking it so seriously, isn't imitation the highest form of flattery? You cant compare us to LEO, apples and oranges. Who exactly are going to be the stolen valor popo? Thiers been way too many examples of people getting it wrong and accusing a VET of faking it (pssttt that would be 1, get it wrong once and its too many). I would also tend to believe those who do fake the funk just aint right in the head, there is something so wrong within them selves that they have to pretend to be something they are not. Believe me their not stealing anything from me. I'm very secure in who and what I am.

Response by SSgt Charles Freeman made May 24 at 2016 1:16 PM

SSgt Charles Freeman — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:16:01 -0400

It's like everything in the media. Things cycle in, and out and in order for something to stay in the forefront it has to be attention grabbing. If we become more heavily involved in another conflict somewhere then Stolen Valor will move back into the media. That's just the way it is.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made May 24 at 2016 1:22 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:22:31 -0400

Why do you think it isn't being taken seriously already?

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made May 24 at 2016 1:23 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:23:42 -0400

Not the same, though I wish it were.

Law Enforcement have police powers in society, service members do not and cannot (Posse Comitatus Act). There's one big difference-maybe THE difference. The consequences of someone who pretends to be a cop can--and have--had more significant consequences. A SV-D Bag may walk in a parade or get an unearned discount at a store, but they won't convince someone to pull over on the road or that they are being arrested.

If it were up to me, I'd have much stronger laws regarding SV to curtail Joe Blow from publically playing make-believe in a military uniform, but it's not up to me. That's the purview of the Supreme Court.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 1:24 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:24:44 -0400

Impersonating a LEO is a crime because of the authority and power that they have. A LEO can detain you, search you, etc. military personnel can't do those things. Although i think it is horribly wrong for people to steal valor they cannot be punished for it unless they are personally/financially gaining from it. Even then, good luck proving it.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made May 24 at 2016 1:31 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:31:09 -0400

Impersonating a LEO and impersonating a service member are very different. A LEO has broad authority over any and everyone who happens to be present in his jurisdiction whereas a member of the military has no authority over anyone not in the military except in certain special circumstances.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made May 24 at 2016 1:39 PM

CPO Joseph Grant — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:39:26 -0400

I've seen people on both sides of the fence on this. I'd like to remind you that Admiral Boorda committed suicide when word leaked out that he had a V for valor on one of his medals. Admiral Boorda was the Chief of Naval Operations at the time. This man honestly believed that he had earned the V however it was not in the service record. I side with the ones who take it seriously. When a man who rose from the rank of E-1 to CNO commits suicide due to shame then we should all know that stolen valor is a serious matter.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 1:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:41:17 -0400

LEOs have certain authorities that are not vested in military personnel. As military personnel you just can't roll up on someone and ask for license, registration, proof of insurance, etc. I could walk out on my lawn wearing a cop's uniform ... no problem. However is a neighbor runs up and say "Officer please help ..." and I act upon it, then I'm going to have issues.
Fine you're life is so pathetic you want to wear a beret with 3 stars and fruit salad ... I don't care unless you try to apply for benefits but then that's fraud and there are laws on the books for that.

Response by SGT Charles W. made May 24 at 2016 2:05 PM

SGT Charles W. — Tue, 24 May 2016 14:05:41 -0400

So I guess what I'm hearing from everyone is impersonating a LEO is a crime, but impersonating a soldier is flattering. I shouldn't take it so personal, and I'm insecure. My question is, everyone is really ok with this? Hey, if that's the case, I'll just shut the hell up. I thought I was defending and honoring us and the uniform(s) we wear, but if that's not the case, I'll keep my 2 cents to myself and keep on truckin'. HOOAH. I just read articles that the Melenials want people to protect this country, just not them. Only 20% of Melenials interviewed are planning on going into the service. I feel that generation is lacking numerous things like integrity, respect, patriotism, etc. But that's just my thought. It's not ALL of them, I know that, so don't feel I'm slamming the whole Melenials generation.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 24 at 2016 2:06 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 24 May 2016 14:06:20 -0400

I once held SCOTUS in high regard, higher than the other two branches of government. Thus, I might once have accepted their judgment on this. However, they have so obviously and egregiously made political decisions in other matters that my trust is fractured and I do not accept their judgment in this matter. To wear a ribbon or medal is a statement that you have earned that award. In like manner I have the right to place "JD" or "esq" after my name inasmuch as I earned a Juris Doctor. An ordained minister may be entitled to "Rev" and a physician, "Dr". To use such appellations may garner the person certain rights and privileges reserved only for those who earned them. Thus, a material reward having actual value accrues to those persons. The same may be said for those wearing military decorations. Ultimately, I believe that such persons who wear unearned awards or represent themselves as something they are not or having distinctions they have not earned are guilty of fraud. No additional law is required. We already have laws regarding fraud and they should be prosecuted under those. Granted the reward may be minor, then we can qualify the fraud as a form of petty larceny.

Response by SGT Charles W. made May 24 at 2016 2:54 PM

SGT Charles W. — Tue, 24 May 2016 14:54:46 -0400

Thank you for all your responses. I saw a similar discussion by Command Post "Stolen Valor: The Ultimate Sign of Disrespect". I this is like anything else where you are going to have people on both sides of the isle, and that's what makes America great. Being someone who does research, I have to look at the pros/cons of whatever I'm researching because otherwise I'd be bias, and I guess maybe I looked at this from just my point of view. You've made some good points, making me think a little harder, BUT, I still feel "stolen valor" should be a crime. If not actually a law written, making it a crime, it is at a minimum a moral/ethical crime and shows lack of integrity. But I'm not a policy maker and don't really have a say, just needed to vent after what I've seen on the net and news lately. That's all. Carry on. HOAH!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 3:20 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 15:20:52 -0400

SGT Wheeler-I think anyone who served is put off by someone "faking it"...whether it is someone simply trying to "sound big", or taking it so far as to garner benefits financial or otherwise.

That said, there "seems" to be a severe lack of common sense and decorum being shown by some "Stolen Valor Hunters" who seem more concerned with announcing their own credentials than discrediting frauds. Worse still, in my mind, is the apparent lack of ability to distinguish between the sixty year old vet "embellishing" a bit at the bar, someone with more recent service getting their "facts twisted" concerning where, what, when and who...a mentally ill person obviously living in their own world...and a dyed in the wool, honest injun liar.

When those of us who DID serve, feel awkward speaking to other vets because we "might" have forgotten some details, or been a "unique" case a less experienced person may challenge on "Stolen Valor"...then I think we have to ask ourselves if we've taken things too far.

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made May 24 at 2016 3:39 PM

SSG Keven Lahde — Tue, 24 May 2016 15:39:34 -0400

SGT Charles W. SGT I think it is being taken seriously, just I think a lot of people who call out others tend to go overboard I think. But it is taken seriously, just probably not seen is all. Just my 2 cents worth.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 24 at 2016 4:53 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 24 May 2016 16:53:25 -0400

1%. That is the amount of Americans who serve annually. 10%. That is the overall amount of Americans who have ever served. When you have that little participation and understanding of what it means to wear that uniform, of course the vast majority of Americans see this as a non-issue.

Response by SPC David S. made May 24 at 2016 5:04 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 24 May 2016 17:04:07 -0400

I do find it troubling that a court would say lying is freedom of speech yet perjury is a criminal offense when lying under oath. A perjury charge may be brought when someone makes a false statement after being sworn in or promising to tell the truth in a legal situation. I find it disappointing that a federal authorized persons that defends the constitution is not considered a legal matter especially considering that without the constitution the judicial branch would not exist.

As well the court’s list of “well-defined” unprotected speech includes “obscenity, defamation, fraud, incitement and speech integral to criminal conduct.” - so at what point does fraud kick in - the point at which something is gained. Special damages are sought in lawsuits based on contract and tort. They are asked for in addition to "general damages." These two types are classified as Compensatory Damages and are both designed to return persons to the position they were in prior to the alleged injury - for example pain and suffering - something that is intangible. So it seems like honor could as well hold some intangible value. So by the act these individuals are receiving something of value that is merely intangible. If you could convince a jury that honor is a least worth a penny then you have a case. I think the terms of our discharge would lend to that - honorable conditions. So there is honor in our service just what is it worth as it seems that it is earned and not just given out.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 6:25 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 18:25:38 -0400

Stolen Valor is unthinkable, but most of the people that do it have personality disorders. So it is normal behavior for someone in that condition. The rest of us cannot understand it, since we would never even think of doing it. Actually what these people need is psychiatric and psychological help. Medication, therapies, learning strategies, support from their Families, counseling, and a new way to approach life may help them become productive, constructive citizens.

Response by Sgt Daniel Dombrowski made May 24 at 2016 6:52 PM

Sgt Daniel Dombrowski — Tue, 24 May 2016 18:52:46 -0400

The SCOTUS has a 50/50 record for getting their rulings wrong. Personally, I think this is one of the wrong instances. It should not be acceptable for a person to wear any uniform or award they did not earn. However, the SCOTUS said it's their freedom of speech to do so, just like it's legal for people to burn the flag (TOTALLY disagree with that ruling).

It's my understanding that a big part of the reason why law enforcement is different from the military is that the military doesn't have as much authority as the police. If you dress as a police officer, you could carry a firearm anywhere; I don't think you could carry an M16 if you went to WalMart in your Dress Blues. If you dress as a police officer, you could handcuff people and wrongfully detain them; it would look odd if someone in their Service Alphas started cuffing people.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made May 24 at 2016 9:44 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Tue, 24 May 2016 21:44:08 -0400

Response by SSgt Shane Griffiths made May 24 at 2016 9:46 PM

SSgt Shane Griffiths — Tue, 24 May 2016 21:46:57 -0400

For the same reason that we get very little actual respect as Veterans, those of us who maintain our bearing do not stand out as much as the loud arrogant arsehats among us who do more harm than good to the cause.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 6:04 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 06:04:33 -0400

People impersonate LEO,s to get authority and "stolen valors" get a ego boost

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 6:08 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 06:08:25 -0400

"Stolen valor" is a crime if someone gets a tangible benefit, such as scholarship or VA loans

Response by SGT David T. made May 25 at 2016 7:49 AM

SGT David T. — Wed, 25 May 2016 07:49:48 -0400

I don't get worked up over it. I don't "out" anyone. It doesn't affect my life in the least. I really could care less what anyone does as long as it doesn't impact me. Nothing anyone can say or do takes away from what we did. The other thing I have seen lately is bona fide veterans getting harassed. None of us should ever have to justify ourselves to anyone. So when I see someone who is obviously a pretender (I hate the term stolen valor because nothing is stolen), I just ignore them.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made May 25 at 2016 10:56 AM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Wed, 25 May 2016 10:56:24 -0400

I was all for it until several instances of young service members getting it wrong and embarrassing older veterans by mistake. We aren't experts on how the uniform was worn 30 and 60 years ago. Coming down on an older vet like an anvil and upsetting them (a few times to tears) only makes YOU look bad.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 25 at 2016 1:34 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:34:36 -0400

A LEO has authority and most people are truly ignorant to what a LEO can actually do. If a random LEO demanded to see my ID, I'd tell him or her to pound sand to the beat of my feet causally walking away because I know they don't have the authority to detain me and see my ID without PC.

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made May 25 at 2016 7:45 PM

SGT Paul Mackay — Wed, 25 May 2016 19:45:12 -0400

because alot of people have lost respect for the law because of the adminisration in DC because if anyone says anything their called racists or they offend someone

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 12:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 May 2016 12:45:27 -0400

The main thing to note is that being a LEO involves a status that grants certain privileges and authorities within the U.S. that are applicable to the general public because of the law enforcement mission. The same is not true of being military, in which case the privileges and authorities are limited to other military personnel because of the Posse Comitatus Act. Therefore, impersonating a LEO may be a genuine hazard to the public in ways that impersonating a military position never will be. It really all stems from that.

And remember that in all but a few places, even impersonating a LEO is only a misdemeanor (the only place I was able to confirm it being a felony was Kentucky). Of course, there is a separate law, 18 USC § 912, that makes it a felony to impersonate a federal "officer or employee" while either acting as such (which because it is distinct from the impersonation part has a specific, stronger legal meaning, such as actually trying to give orders) or demanding things of value, as well as 18 USC § 701, that makes it a misdemeanor to manufacture, sell, or possess false badges and ID cards. If the feds really want to go after someone for impersonation, there's usually a way...

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Jun 2 at 2016 3:09 PM

CPO Jack De Merit — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 15:09:53 -0400

I am the Secretary for the Los Angeles National Cemetery Support Foundation. Our Foundation supports the Cemetery in any way we can. We plan and put on the Memorial Day Ceremony every year. We had a member who would show up for events dressed as a Brigadier General and was only a Private in the Army. When confronted, he explained that he was part of a Funeral Brigade that would preside over Army Veterans when they passed away. Since our program was to honor the fallen heroes, we could not understand why he was dressed for a funeral. We ultimately asked for his resignation and had him banned from the Cemetery. Apparently, only being a Private was something he could not deal with so he had to be important and wear his funeral uniform. We still get guests that wear medals that we know they never earned but choose not to tarnish the Ceremony with calling them out for it. Stolen Valor is not Freedom of Speech! It should be prosecuted the same way that lying in court is prosecuted.