Why are so many atheists in the military "in the closet"?

SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:28:37 -0400

Atheists in the military, many of us are in the closet about it.
Why is this?
My reasoning is because I would never want to tell someone what they should and should not believe (that's impossible). However, I think it's ridiculous that I have to participate in bowing my head in "group prayer" at award ceremonies and graduations.
I have never attacked anyone based on their beliefs.
Some how it's okay for theists to share their views on religion, but I'm not allowed mine? Why is my opinion considered a threat?
I think freedom from religion should be more widely accepted in our military.
Thoughts?

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jun 18 at 2015 12:33 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:33:45 -0400

SPC AnnMarie Gonzales, your beliefs are as valid as any one else's. And pushing one's beliefs onto others is never appropriate - in either direction.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 18 at 2015 12:50 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:50:12 -0400

Don't Bow. I am NOT an Atheist, but if you are, knock yourself out.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 1:09 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 01:09:20 -0400

I don't bow my head during the invocation/prayer. NOBODY can make you do that!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 1:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 01:29:31 -0400

Well, its certianly your right not to bow your head, or express your opinion where appropriate. Now that we all agree on what you have the right to do, let us consider what is right to do. It is my personal belief that this thing called polite society is a good thing as it helps people from all walks of life to get along. So, is it right for me to remind all my atheist friends evey day that they are are going straight to hades? Of course not it makes for unproductive, unnecessary awkward silences and, frankly, short lived friendships. So after that long winded statment is it right for you to stand quietly during an invocation? Of course it is. No one is forcing you to convert, do somthing vulgar, and most importantly cause your death.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 18 at 2015 1:32 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 01:32:29 -0400

I'm an atheist, generally I dont let ceremony bother me, its tradition, tradition is just something the military does.

Response by SFC Kevin Cornett made Jun 18 at 2015 1:33 AM

SFC Kevin Cornett — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 01:33:00 -0400

If I didn't feel like praying at a particular time, I didn't bow my head. Seems a pretty reasonable solution to me.

Response by CH (COL) Geoff Bailey made Jun 18 at 2015 6:23 AM

CH (COL) Geoff Bailey — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 06:23:00 -0400

You've raised an interesting issue and one which has been asked as long as the military has conducted ceremonies.

Ceremonies generally celebrate or observe momentous occasions for those involved. For many, it's fitting or proper to give thanks to a divine being whom they believe enabled success or grants protection and wisdom for the task ahead. As you've noted, some do not subscribe to any belief system which a divine being. They choose to believe in reason and moral philosophy. Each of these are individual choices we all make.

Chaplains are cognizant of this plethora of belief systems and strive to be respectful towards all those present for ceremonies. This is why many prayers sound generic and are short.

In certain settings, the chaplain might introduce a disclaimer and invitation to join in a prayerful attitude according to your own tradition.

Whether to bow one's head or not is a challenging issue given the myriad of beliefs and non-belief in operation in any given formation. Even this can be limiting for both the believer and non-believer. One might wish to stand rigidly looking forward while another wishes to lie prostrate or reach arms spread towards upper realms. I think the slight bowing of the head is a minimal request for respect towards others, but would be hard pressed to ever demand someone do so as it crosses a line of forced practice. At the same time, I would find it hard to stop someone from kneeling if he or she felt strongly. As a chaplain I would advise them that prayers are still heard in any position. (For those who believe in a divine being.)

In short, personal practices are important at the individual and collective level and we each must respect one another while navigating public events in an organization driven by uniformity in appearance. There is no easy answer, but mutual respect is key.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 6:29 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 06:29:42 -0400

I am an atheist and have never been forced to participate in any thing religious. If you don't "bow your head" nothing will happen to you. I do feel there is a religious minority and it can feel overwhelming to think there are so many irrational illogical people in the army. But really that is a problem everywhere especially in the United States. However I know they can't be made to see reasonably about it and it actually has no impact on my life to just leave them to their ancient cults and traditions that are fading away, as part of a living history lesson.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jun 18 at 2015 7:05 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:05:51 -0400

I never hid it, never had any troubles except for one time an Evangelical went off on me. I was reading an article about multiverses and talking to one of my guys and he popped his cork. Just nodded and waited for him to leave. Never for a second felt it hindered my career.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jun 18 at 2015 7:12 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:12:16 -0400

Someone should just go to the archive and copy and paste one of the 100 other atheist, christian, religion in the military, is there a god, my feelings get hurt because of any of the above threads.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 8:19 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 08:19:32 -0400

I hardly ever know the religious beliefs of those at my table unless they are close to me. By close I do not mean proximity. I will bow my head, pray or not, etc out of respect to the group. What meaning I give is up to me and what meaning the others give is up to them.

Why do we have to make it an issue?

Simple respect for each other should suffice.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Jun 18 at 2015 9:20 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:20:17 -0400

I don't bow my head, and I'm Catholic. I have never attacked anyone based on their religion or lack thereof. I don't consider atheists a threat at all. Not sure this is even an issue.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:11 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:11:11 -0400

I don't bow at prayers or invocations.
My dog tags have said Atheist on them since day one.
I agree it is ridiculous that there is an invocation during every ceremony.

Theists can share they're religious views because there beliefs are similar. Different sects of Christians, or Jewish, or Muslims agree on the big picture, their god created the universe. They can argue over whose god is right. As an Atheist your view is seen by the more fundamental members as a threat. It can pull members from the flock.

Ultimately I hope both the religious and non-religious Soldier are striving for truth. But if you run into a fundamentalist on either side of the religious debate in your unit or chain of command, just tell them that talking about this topic with them makes you uncomfortable. And if they don't stop, or they use their position to negatively influence you because of yours, report it through the appropriate channels.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 18 at 2015 10:17 AM

SSG Brian Kresge — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:17:01 -0400

Come out of the closet.

You don't have to bow your head. I'm religious, but I don't participate in communal invocations like that either on the off chance that they'll end in "Jesus' name." It's not even because I personally have a problem with that, but because it's at odds with my own faith tradition.

These end up being loaded questions, and I argued with someone vehemently about the acceptance of non-Christian faiths and their more outward observances with regards to the uniform. But the fact is, I do respect the long-established fact that the majority of troops who have served and will serve are of the Christian faith. So long as atheists and non-Christians, even some other varieties of Christians that are not from mainstream branches, have our space, we're okay. And I really do believe we are afforded those spaces.

I remind myself constantly that I am honored to serve with the people next to me, and we honor each other by respecting and reconciling old tradition with emerging traditions. E pluribus unum.

Response by PO2 Victor Taylor made Jun 18 at 2015 10:49 AM

PO2 Victor Taylor — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:49:50 -0400

What I have found out over the years. That most "atheists" are not. They have mislabeled themselves.

Here is the definition of atheist and agnostic:

Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine.

My son is agnostic, but only the sense of the refraining from the commitment to any religious doctrine and I have found youth now days are this way, because of laziness to research the different religions in this world.

Here is a list of the 21 major religions in the world:

1. Christianity 2.1 billion
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion 394 million
6. Buddhism 376 million
7. Primal indigenous 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 14 million
13. Bahá'í Faith 7 million
14. Jainism 4.2 million
15. Shinto 4 million
16. Cao Dai 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo 2 million
19. Neopaganism 1 million
20. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
21. Rastafari movement 600,000

If you feel your "in the closet" about your religion or like there of a belief system, it is only because you feel it is not part of the norm in society and has nothing to do with anything, but you getting over your fear of being "found out" about not being part of the norm.

I am not saying what is right or what is wrong only you can decide that for yourself and if you let anyone bully you into a belief system, then that is your fault for letting it happen.

Response by SFC John Trujillo made Jun 18 at 2015 8:03 PM

SFC John Trujillo — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 20:03:10 -0400

Then don't bow your head. The only people that will see you are the other people not bowing their heads. What type of monkey did you come from, if you mind me asking?

Response by PO1 Matthew Maxon made Jun 19 at 2015 10:49 AM

PO1 Matthew Maxon — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:49:56 -0400

I think that there could be consequences by coming out of the closet. I had a senior chief disrespect me in public because of my atheism while I was in.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 7:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:28:41 -0400

Unfortunately, many SMs do not have superiors who support them. It's a matter of choice between keeping it to oneself or risking the wrath of those in leadership who could make or break a SMs career.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 19 at 2015 7:31 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:31:11 -0400

Same reason why a lot of homosexuals stay in the closet even while it's okay now: the military is a team sport and people want to fit in on the team. If feeling like fitting in means keeping your religious beliefs or sexual preference on the down low, some folks will do it.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jun 19 at 2015 7:38 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:38:02 -0400

Lol, in the closet what alternate planet are you in? Who do you think is leading the charge to have the word Jesus removed. They wanted there own Chaplin. An oxymoron. It's funny they hate believers but are offended when they find someone who believes. If a soldier says that marriage is between a man and a woman, it's an automatic article 15 and you have to attend sensitivity training.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 7:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:46:23 -0400

Sometimes it is easier to just stay in the closet than to put up with the tidal wave of well-meaning people who believe that somehow you have managed to skate through decades of life in America without ever once hearing about Jesus. It rarely happens in person but in online forums it can sometimes feel like a fire hose.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 18 at 2015 10:50 AM

SPC David Hannaman — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:50:10 -0400

I come from a highly legalistic, completely hypocritical, religious background, so there were a number of years when I was in the service that I was very ANTI-God.

During that time I bowed my head during prayer out of respect... not out of belief. Call it meditation, call it a moment of silence... I certainly wasn't participating in someone else's faith.

I draw a parallel between that and the playing of the National Anthem. When I personally hear the music, it takes me to a different place and mindset, it fills me with pride, thoughts of comrades and country... there are times when it even brings a tear to my eye... not everyone feels that though, as evidenced by the guy playing on his phone... I can't make him feel what I feel, but I do think it's common courtesy for him to show respect.

I eventually came to terms with my FAITH... but I still have feelings ranging from pity to spite for religion. Some of my friends that display the most morality and integrity identify themselves as atheists, and some of the worst cases of theft have come from people who loudly advertise themselves as Christians.

Sometimes it's just a case of doing as the Romans do when in Rome.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 10:56 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:56:32 -0400

Most military members are conservatives, and most conservatives are religious - so as an atheist you're simply heavily outnumbered. It's one of the myriad reasons I never bring up such topics in a professional setting.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 10:58 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:58:59 -0400

Atheists are all over in the open but the problem is that majority of people who so call them selfs Christians just look forward and don't check side to side. If religion is a test or requirement then we have a problem due to falling away from the constitution to which we swor to uphold and defend

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 18 at 2015 11:05 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:05:56 -0400

What is there to 'come out from'? Atheism is a lack of belief in a higher power, so any closet is a self created one.
Bowing your head is simply respecting what others believe IF you do not share those beliefs. Your beliefs are not a threat, by and of themselves, but by self labeling yourself as an atheists you are stating you do not believe?
For the record, it is 'no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' and not 'freedom from religion', no matter what some might try to propagate. In other words, the Federal government cannot establish a single religion or belief...or lack of belief...for a the Nation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 11:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 11:59:09 -0400

Are you sure they are all atheists and not Agnostics? Atheists tend to be organized and seek each other out where agnostics don't. I do not believe in any religion, but I cannot call myself atheist, nor agnostic. I simply do not care, and would rather spend my Sunday my way. So many of these people who are not religious, who you think are atheists may just be like me, and want to leave everybody to it and be left the hell alone. Show them that you respect their right to practice as long as they respect your right not to.
This is what I do, and nobody tries to convert me when I'm polite about my declination.
You want to get "GOD" and prayer removed? If it means nothing to you, why does meaningless stuff offend you?
Perhaps I'm not atheist because they organize, once people organize I see danger.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Aug 19 at 2015 1:25 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:25:34 -0400

If your in the closet about being an atheist then maybe your just not secure in your choice. Its a lot different between atheists and homosexuals, before homosexuals had no choice but to be in the closet.
If you firmly believe in your religion or non-religion then you have no reason to hide it. And you also have no right to force your views, again religious or non-religious on anyone.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 1:47 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:47:25 -0400

SPC Gonzales-Of the many discussions on this topic I've seen, yours is the first to approach it from this angle, and I have to admit that it certainly got my attention. I'll be up-front; I'm a Christian, and owing to our rapidly evolving society, I'm forced to add "Evangelical" to that...though I myself am not entirely sure what that is supposed to mean. I have close friends and peers who are atheists or agnostics, and I often hear their concerns. Answers are never simple or short.

I would ask that you consider this; religion is subjective-there's an "individual" and "community" aspect to it, and they don't often coincide. For this reason, there are some groups which attach religious views to extreme acts that often contravene the teachings of the very faiths they claim. However, there has been, is now, and always will be divergence between what 'faith' teaches...and society adopts.

I think most people of faith, and in the interest of brevity and accuracy, I'll focus on Christians, feel no direct "threat" from atheists or agnostics...Allowing for varying levels of maturity and social interaction. Obviously, if someone is using the words, "ignorant" or "backward" to describe one's most cherished personal convictions, it could be seen as aggressive.

The apparent resistance to other views, in particular, atheism, stems more from "indirect" consequences of society becoming less comfortable with core Christian principles and beliefs. Issues such as LGBT rights, abortion, education and sexuality all hinge upon a conflict between the secular and spiritual, and many people of faith are fearful these issues will eventually lead to legal means of enforcing "tolerance".

To (again, focusing on Christians) the believer, these issues are defined by divine instruction laid down in millennia-old doctrines accepted to be nothing short of the "Word of God"...it is impossible to redact, edit or reject them without foregoing to entire basis of those beliefs, which again, for a believer, bears eternal consequences. In short, some competing ideologies, atheism among them , truly seem to be driving for not only equal rights...but tacit approval.

Many of my atheist friends claim this is the LAST thing they want...and I'm inclined to believe them. However, when I ask the difficult questions such as, "Do you mind if I teach my child creationism?" or "Can I openly view LGBT lifestyles as immoral?"...they suddenly become reticent. I think there are subjects that belong within the heart, and some subjects that require compromise. Perhaps that compromise is as simple as understanding that a simple moment of prayer means a great deal to someone of faith...as does the non-believer's willingness to allow it.

Response by LTC Tom Hartley made Aug 20 at 2015 4:33 PM

LTC Tom Hartley — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:33:45 -0400

I would think you are welcome to share your opinions on your personal belief or disbelief, although they will likely not be welcome from those who do believe. As for bowing your head during group prayer, you should consider it being respectful of others beliefs and it isn't really a measure of your participation or beliefs. I suspect much like the respect you Erik be down when sharing your perspective on religion.

Response by SGT Kimball Bowers made Aug 20 at 2015 4:51 PM

SGT Kimball Bowers — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:51:04 -0400

I honestly haven't seen it. I have so many friends that are atheists and they are very open about it. You talk about all kinds of things to talk about while pulling security for hours on end.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Aug 20 at 2015 8:56 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:56:39 -0400

I can say that you should never have to stay in the closet about being a Atheist. As a Christian I have friends that are Atheist we agree to disagree on some matters and have a conversation on others. I think why Atheist get a bad wrap is because people put Atheist and bad things together. I met Atheist that lived a cleaner and purer life then Christians.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 9:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:17:35 -0400

I really didn't think that was a thing. I can't say I know many soldiers that really talk about faith to be honest. I will say that I am Deist. I will respect all faiths. I don't have an issue with bowing my head. I see it as paying respect to my follow soldiers. I am sure if I asked for some special consideration they would abide by it too. It would be the same if you were of another faith, say Islam, and you asked for some silence while you prayed. Then your fellow soldiers said "I don't have to be quiet. I am not Muslim!" It is about being a decent person and respecting another. I bow my head. I don't talk to anyone. I don't think intercessory pray really does anything but I will still respect those that do. As the very least you can close your eyes and take a quick nap.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 21 at 2015 3:55 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:55:35 -0400

Looking at this again, I had a bit of an epiphany:

Most religions include some form of the "Golden rule" in their doctrine. "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you."

So from that perspective, I suppose we people of faith have to ask ourselves "If a different religion were to instruct us all to bow our heads in prayer to *their* god, would I be offended?

I suppose the only people here with a leg to stand on IS the atheists... no doctrine to tell them otherwise, but also no god to pray to.

...Food for thought...

Response by SGT John Rauch made Aug 21 at 2015 4:08 PM

SGT John Rauch — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:08:42 -0400

I believe bowing your head during prayer in the modern military is more out of respect to tradition than anything else. also by refusing to bow, individualism is show, and uniformity is broken. most prayers in todays military are not directed to any one religion either, most chaplains pray as if they are confused and dont even know why, or to whom they are praying.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Aug 21 at 2015 5:47 PM

SGT Christopher Churilla — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:47:16 -0400

I absolutely agree with you. I know that might seem odd coming from someone in my job field, but it is the chaplain's job to protect EVERYONE'S free expression of religion, to include atheists. If there is pressure on you to go against your beliefs, go see him.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2015 5:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:56:38 -0400

SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales, Until about 2011/2012, I was pretty much an "in the closet" atheist. I had subscribed to the Freedom From Religion Newsletter, and it came to me in the mail while I was deployed to FOB Sharana, Afghanistan. Since it was in "newspaper" format, its content was pretty readily apparent, and my supervisor intercepted one of the issues. For the next several weeks he and many of my co-workers asked me questions about my beliefs (or lack of) when they were in good moods, and harassed me about them when they were bored.

Since then, I have been more out of the closet...mostly so I can engage the issue on my own terms and timeline. I still don't, other than here on RallyPoint, bring it up unless either someone directly asks, or the atmosphere is such that the "other side" needs representation.

That said, once the can is open, it does NOT close. :)

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Aug 21 at 2015 6:04 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:04:03 -0400

Then change the first amendment. I feel for you. Maybe you should not attend these events.

Response by MSgt Niclas Svensson made Aug 21 at 2015 6:09 PM

MSgt Niclas Svensson — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:09:14 -0400

I didn't read through all the comments, but here's my take...
Most (and I do stress MOST) people could really care less if you believe or don't believe in God. I have never in my 20 years seen a person's career impacted because they were atheist. Sure, you have those rare breeds that will try and "save" everyone, but they are few and far between.

As for the prayer at official ceremonies...It is a military tradition, but no one can force you to participate...when everyone else bows thier head in prayer, just stand there and wait for them to be done.

Kinda like at a hockey game in the US when they are playing a Canadian team... They sing the Canadian National Anthem first and then our's... Now, I'm not Canadian, but I stand and am respectful of the Canadian fans and players while thier Anthem plays...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2015 6:12 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:12:14 -0400

I'm pretty sure you are not required to bow your head. Get out of the closet and be strong enough to stand on your convictions.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 21 at 2015 6:29 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:29:48 -0400

As a rabbi, I have always been very troubled by mandatory prayer in Jesus' name. While the majority of our country are Christian, the First Amendment Separation Clause makes it very clear that this is NOT a "Christian Country".

The reality is that the majority in the military are conservative and Christian - to be something other is often a handicap, so many keep their views private, and suffer as part of the group. I know I did, and I'm not an Atheist, so it must be worse for you...

Response by CW3 Stephen Mills made May 31 at 2016 10:49 AM

CW3 Stephen Mills — Tue, 31 May 2016 10:49:04 -0400

So don't bow your head. Easy answer. You guys seem to confuse the idea of freedom of religion with freedom from religion. One you have, the other you don't.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 12:39 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 00:39:31 -0400

The courage of your position and belief should be strong enough to handle those who believe in a supreme being. Be prepared to handle some of what the zealots throw at you. Westwood Baptist Church has given a swollen eye to Fundamental Christians. I was born and raised a southern baptist and I don't know any who favorable view those biased and bigoted people. Be yourself. True to self. Anyone who would attempt to force another to believe or behave a particular way, has some real problems with their personal strength and faith. Cheers

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 3:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:04:32 -0400

Prayer involves more than simply bowing one's head. Prayer is between an individual and their god, or whatever their spiritual alignment might be. I don't have one, but that doesn't mean I have to show disrespect to others who do. I have no problem with lowering my eyes, or head and contemplating other things for the whole 20 seconds it takes for others to have their ghost chats.

Put the energy into your career, it will do more of you than fighting tradition.

Response by Maj Rob Drury made Jun 9 at 2016 3:53 PM

Maj Rob Drury — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 15:53:26 -0400

Nowhere in the First Amendment is there event the slightest hint toward "freedom from religion." Thank God.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 10 at 2016 4:48 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:48:06 -0400

For the same reason why a lot of gay individuals are still in the closet: You are in a minority, but you can easily hide it....and people do not like being in the minority.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jun 14 at 2016 6:58 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 06:58:52 -0400

SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales Have to agree with you that non-believers should not be subjected to mandatory or near-mandatory exposure to or participation in prayers to anyone. The same probably rankles people of other than Christian faiths who may not appreciate a moment of silence in honor of a Christian God. It is my understanding that the Armed Services are coming to acknowledge the bind they put some people in and may be limiting the amount of praying at group functions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2016 12:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:20:47 -0400

Because there can be negative repercussions to being anything other than Christian in the military.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 2:08 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:08:42 -0400

Believe me, you are not alone! And it's not just Atheists. Pagans across the military are likewise "in the closet" about their beliefs. Most of this is because we do not have representation the way most other faiths do. All sects of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and now even Hindu have Chaplain Corps representation. But Pagans do not. As for Atheism (I hit on this on another thread), it would be near impossible to have an Atheist Chaplain. Not because the numbers aren't there, but because it isn't really logical to have a religious leader who has no religion. Atheism in and of itself cannot be classified as a religion because it is literally the LACK of religion.

As for your freedom to express your views, you are welcomed to share them, regardless of the reception. It is illegal and immoral for anyone to try and silence your belief simply because it differs from theirs.

I am always here, and you can spark any theological debate with me any time! We don't have to believe the same thing for me to care about and support you as my comrade and my sister-at-arms!

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Apr 12 at 2021 4:09 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:09:32 -0400

Religion does not belong at the workplace. I am far from an atheist and that is the closest you will get to knowing my religion. I am an Army Officer and nurse and that is what guides me.

Response by Maj John Bell made May 14 at 2021 2:06 PM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 14 May 2021 14:06:03 -0400

Who says you have to bow your head. I was a agnostic atheist for most of my time in the military. Even after my conversion I don't bow my head. I believe that there is a reason that we have anthropomorphized God as "Our" father." I know if I bowed my head before my Earthly father his response would be "WTF are you doing?"