Why are genuine heroes who display awards or decorations not awarded, not "confronted"?

2018-03-22T10:16:34-04:00

What is the most appropriate way to address the issue of genuine heroes who present themselves in public settings; organizational photos, parades, appearances etc, wearing awards they simply did not or could not have earned? A specific example would be a former WWII Navajo Code Talker, who in official organizational photos, parade appearances and other venues, displays a Combat Infantryman Badge, third award (very select list, which this individual is not on) and a China Service Ribbon with two devices (not possible). If your average Joe was out presenting themselves in this manner, someone would be all over them.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 11:05 AM

2018-03-22T11:05:03-04:00

If this guy really is a code talker, he is really, really, really old. Probably has someone else (a relative who doesn't quite know better perhaps) building his ribbon rack for him.

My initial instinct-- all WWII vets get a pass. Take the time to listen to him and learn from him (if for no other purpose for the posterity of stories that may not have been told yet) rather than getting feather-ruffled about a few jacked up ribbons.

If you feel like you need to do something-- don't take it straight to him. If there is a family member you usually see him with (preferably one who is not 80+ years old), politely voice your concerns to that family member. I would do it in a manner suggesting you are genuinely trying to be helpful rather than accusatory. It could be a genuine mistake. It also may be possible that he wears the awards his brothers-in-arms won (or should have had they lived) in tribute to their memory... I knew a WWII vet who did that-- never saw him wear a uniform, but he had them on the wall of his house in his dead friends' honor. Pretty sure he's beyond caring if that is 'allowed' by uniform regs or not.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-03-22T11:30:25-04:00

What is the name of the veteran in question? Do you have a link to the picture?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 11:46 AM

2018-03-22T11:46:26-04:00

James-"Stolen Valor" is a touchy subject. The best answer is this: If there appears to be a discrepancy, there are means of verifying someone's claims. You should be VERY cautious before assuming that just because someone "probably didn't", that they are guilty.

Response by James Holds made Mar 22 at 2018 1:00 PM

2018-03-22T13:00:47-04:00

Thank you all, who have commented. They have been helpful and given me some things to think about. This particular case has been on my mind since 2012. I have considered his age, the probability that some of the ribbon devices are honest mistakes, either through the simple error or forgetfulness or preparation by another. But I look at that photo, the alertness in his eyes, his continued public appearances and that CIB 3rd award... it just screams WTF?

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Mar 22 at 2018 1:02 PM

2018-03-22T13:02:29-04:00

When you start talking about Vets who are that old it may just be an issue where they mistook the award for the right one. I think that it is important to think rationally about these kinds of things. These are people that have no reason to embellish their service, so why would they? Maybe pull them aside in private and let them know hey that's not the right one or the right way to wear that. Then again, I think that it is stupid to be running up on even the worst cases of stolen valor because it isn't worth my time.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 22 at 2018 1:07 PM

2018-03-22T13:07:59-04:00

The main reason is if someone who had actually served was fibbing they will probably have a stronger back story that holds up to what is honestly very basic scrutiny. The guys who have never served usually have major mistakes with their uniform or huge inconsistencies in their stories. I personally never even look for instances of stolen valor, I just don't think its worth it but more importantly if someone accused me in public like this I wouldn't even give them the time of day. I'm never going to defend myself or what I've done to a stranger with a camera.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Mar 22 at 2018 1:13 PM

2018-03-22T13:13:45-04:00

You have to also realize that older veterans may not have records of some awards that they wear because they were lost or never made up. There was a fire in St Louis in 1973 at the National Records Personnel Center. Although it does seem to only affect the following Army personnel discharged 1 Nov 1912 - 1 Jan 1960 (80%) and Air Force personnel discharged 25 Sept 1947 to 1 Jan 1964 (75%).

"No duplicate copies of these records were ever maintained, nor were microfilm copies produced. Neither were any indexes created prior to the fire. In addition, millions of documents had been lent to the Department of Veterans Affairs before the fire occurred. Therefore, a complete listing of the records that were lost is not available. However, in the years following the fire, the NPRC collected numerous series of records (referred to as Auxiliary Records) that are used to reconstruct basic service information."

This is why we get told to save everything we get and make copies.

I don't think that the Code Talker you mention was trying to commit Stolen Valor at all. Maybe he had been confused. Maybe he did get it and paperwork didn't get processed. Maybe he knew he wasn't supposed to wear it.

Is it really that big of a deal at the end of the day? I mean if he wasn't trying to profit off it and it was an oversight is it worth calling him out over? I don't think so.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Mar 22 at 2018 8:41 PM

2018-03-22T20:41:32-04:00

Based on the number of current service members who don't know how rare a 3rd Award CIB is (just check the most recent, popular question on here about it) I wouldn't be surprised if he just didn't know that he wasn't authorized to wear it.