Who would win in a battle. 1 infantry battalion of modern Marines vs the entire Confederate Army?

2020-07-30T09:11:15-04:00

An infantry Battalion from 2nd Marine Division gets sent back in time. The starting point is the alamo in San Antonio TX. They get 1 week prep. Current weapon loadout an Infantry/rifleman (pogs are in this to) would have. Including fireteams with grenade launchers, M240s. One Humve with a 50 cal attached. One tank. And they get to have their corpsmans with them. with a Highest rank is the battalions LtCol, they do get all the modern history books pertaining the confederate and civil war.

Confederates have all that they would have during the 1800s.
On the day of the battle, The confederates surround the battalion. general Lee asks the LtCol to surrender. The LtCol responds "**** you" . The confederates charge. Can the Marines hold off?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 30 at 2020 9:41 AM

2020-07-30T09:41:02-04:00

Hands down, those with the modern weapons would have the advantage.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 30 at 2020 9:43 AM

2020-07-30T09:43:05-04:00

Marines, easily. Only real variable here is the availability of ammo.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Jul 30 at 2020 9:46 AM

2020-07-30T09:46:53-04:00

If you’re starting in Texas, it would be General Albert Johnson, Army of Mississippi you’d be facing, not General Lee, Army of Northern Virginia.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2020 9:55 AM

2020-07-30T09:55:29-04:00

The tank alone would enough for them to win.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2020 9:58 AM

2020-07-30T09:58:14-04:00

I go with the modern weapons and tactics. Plus the Union army had access to repeating rifles and the gatling gun but those in charge choice not to purchase them in any volume , their think was troops would waste ammo.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Jul 30 at 2020 10:30 AM

2020-07-30T10:30:04-04:00

Short answer? The CSA... and here's the "long" reasons why.

The Marines don't have any external support-no CAS, no MEDEVAC, and only the tech they've got on hand for internal comms. Any GPS based navigation isn't going to work either. They will be pretty much "blind" in terms of the CSA's movements. They can study the maps of the period all they want... the Confederates are going to have a commanding knowledge of the terrain due to superior recon capabilities and possibly local knowledge. Lee wouldn't be commanding every subordinate unit... so a lot depends on who his corps, division, brigade, and regimental commanders are. If Longstreet makes first contact, he's going to rapidly figure out he's up against vastly superior weapons... and withdraw long enough to consider alternative strategies. If Jackson's still alive... he's going to maneuver until he finds the weakest point in the Marines' defenses... wait for dawn, and overwhelm them in the dim light from the flanks or rear. By contrast, Armistead or Pickett might get frustrated and try a hell-for-leather assault and get slaughtered... it's all about whose calling the shots. My guess? Lee would listen to Longstreet (this time-unless Jackson is still alive, and he's not fought Gettysburg yet), use his cavalry under Stewart to harass and demonstrate on the flanks, try to hem the Marines up into a single, linear order of battle... pound them with artillery... then assault from two sides with infantry. The Marines' problem is that they are trained to engage in smaller-scale. They can accurately fire at targets inside of and up to 200+ yards... but if they're in the Wilderness or Shiloh... they might be engaging inside of 100 yards or less; maybe as close as 50, against not dozens, or even hundreds... but thousands of disciplined troops coming up in line. The CSA would be dropping like flies, but still moving forward... and if they got inside the Marines' lines; it could be a simple case of numbers. You've only got what; 1000-1,200 Marines vs. 50,000-90,000 Confederates?

Still... 25-30 rounds per mag, times six, plus three mags of 15 per man? That's potentially 225-250 rounds per Marine? That means the Marines have around 270,000 rounds total (less indirect fires)... meaning they could kill the entire Army of Northern VA three times, if every round counted. At best, the CSA is firing two to three rounds per minute from lines of about 1,000 in successive ranks. I'd estimate the Marines would be killing somewhere around 75-80% of their targets, while the CSA would be lucky to see 25-50%. More than likely, regardless of whose in tactical command at the time... the CSA's going to retreat and regroup. The Marines (who know more about modern warfare obviously) are going to form a "circle", dig in, and become a human fortress.

Here's where it gets "interesting".

The Marines have no where to go. They're going to be depleting their ammo fast... and even if they can keep the CSA at a distance, they're going to get slowly surrounded. The Victorian-minded CSA officers are going to offer "terms"... which, imbued with modern notions of combat ethos... the Marines are going to refuse-possibly by shooting the unfortunate junior officer under a white flag. Lee can't just "quit" and move off... so he's going to bide his time. The CSA will hit at night, skirmish, bring up re-enforcement and re-supply. Eventually, inevitably, it's going to come down to the last round... and then hand to hand. The Marines have several advantages in that vein... but none strong enough to overwhelm the multitudes of gleaming bayonets at the end of heavy rifled muskets coming at them. Lee's going to lose most of his army, because he... and his subordinate commanders are simply not going to comprehend how "good" modern Marines are at killing... but he's going to win this fight.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2020 10:59 AM

2020-07-30T10:59:38-04:00

Marines. Imagine it, if you would. You’re a confederate soldier. You see some guys charge into a 240B. It’s your first time seeing anything of that nature. Would you fix bayonet and charge that? Add onto it that the Marines would easily pick off Confederate officers, drummers, flags...they’re chain of command would disintegrate.

And let’s say that the first attack gets wiped out and the Confederates decide to pull back and surround the marines. Night falls, and the Marines have NVGs. The Confederates would have 0 experience with that kind of night fighting.

The only thing that the Confederates would have going for them is artillery. They’d have enough cannons to cause serious damage. If the Confederates could get enough batteries shooting and the Marines didn’t have terrain on their side...

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jul 30 at 2020 11:04 AM

2020-07-30T11:04:39-04:00

It's a fun experiment but the basis is slightly off. First, an Infantry Bn has way more than a single humvee. When I deployed with 3/6 the CAAT plt had 75 Marines that fielded 5 sections with 4 trucks per section. And armor isnt organic to an Infantry Bn. They aren't even an option with the CMC disbanning all Tank units. The major question is resources. Ammo and fuel to be specific. An infantry Bn has alot of power but if re-supply isn't an option it changes how they operate. With that being the case, A BN would overpower their enemy in the average skirmish but you run into supply issues and ultimately manpower issues. At it's heaviest a Bn would be 1,200. The Confederate Army was no less than 200,000 and usually was bigger. But if re-supply wouldn't be an issue I think the Bn would do alot of damage. But if they tried to fight a traditional war they would get cut off and starved out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2020 11:48 AM

2020-07-30T11:48:21-04:00

Shit man...do Marine infantry battalions have Ravens?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2020 11:58 AM

2020-07-30T11:58:02-04:00

By the way, Marines do have tanks. That's the Army department. But the CSA would run. General's are like Lee were far superior to what most General's in history and I am sure present day. He even held off Grant but Grant was able to take out his support so it forced Lee to move and that was when he was vulnerable.

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Jul 30 at 2020 11:58 AM

2020-07-30T11:58:55-04:00

Have you ever watch "Twilight Zone"? The old black and white version, I mean. It's been done. Why are you putting overpower unit up against old tired dog? Ask the Battle Battered of Bastone, They only couple pieces of arty and small arms against 3 panzer divisions. And the General in charge, has only one word when he was asked to surrender, "NUT". I don't think any good Marine will like easy battle. Look up Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima, Okinawa. Oh, don't forget Guadalcanal.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 30 at 2020 3:27 PM

2020-07-30T15:27:19-04:00

I think the entire CSA would take a Marine Battalion, wont be pretty, won't be fun, they would get chewed up pretty good, but 100k men against 1200, even with modern equipment, and combat multipliers, just will not stand against a determined enemy with those numbers. After a Marine is finished with his combat load of ammo, his weapon becomes a short spear, and there is no 5.56 ammo to replace what he fires. What vehicles the marines have, will run out of gas quite quick, just making them pill boxes. Even if the Marines manage to "break out", they would be tailed and harried. after the initial encounter, surround and hammer with artillery. These men were not stupid, and they absolutely had a brass pair hanging in the way they fought. I would say the CSA would lose 5 to 10 thousand, a good showing for sure to the marines, but the sheer numbers would be their downfall. BTW, anything that runs on batteries would be inop within 48-72, hours, so direct coms, NVG's, PAC-4's etc etc, not to mention medical supplies for your wounded.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 30 at 2020 6:26 PM

2020-07-30T18:26:00-04:00

OK let's start out with this. This sounds like the questions guys ask each other when they know they are too drunk to leave the party, and there aren't any girls around.

And the answer is: someone wakes up in a speedo, on an Amtrak Train to Chicago... Oh yeah, no ticket either.