Who would win if the USS North Carolina, Yamato, Bismarck and HMS King George V fought?

2016-03-17T21:54:41-04:00

4 of the most powerful battleships of their time to ever get underway. Using only the WW2 specs and no air support, ship to ship who would you think would come out victorious?

Response by SN Greg Wright made Mar 17 at 2016 11:18 PM

2016-03-17T23:18:03-04:00

The Carolina was the smallest, by displacement, of the 4 named ships. The Yamato displaced nearly double -- meaning, she had a crap-ton more armor than the other 3. In fact, she displaced roughly 30% more than even the Iowa class. If you lined them up and just did broadsides, it's hard to see how she'd lose. However, we had better radars (and thus, better fire control), and would have been more nimble. Still, in a straight up fight with no other variables? Yamato.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Mar 18 at 2016 12:32 AM

2016-03-18T00:32:34-04:00

I'd lean towards the Bismark and it had a radar fire control system and a well trained crew to run it. It was also more maneuverable than the rest and would likely keep the others tied up on ranging. At distance, it would be plunging fire, hence side armour isn't a high determiner in the equation. Bismark strategy would be to weave in and out of the other's range while getting its own punches in. The rest needed visual for surface fire, hence night work would be a greater advantage for Bismark. Although Yamato had radar, the crew was poorly trained in both optical and radar. Surface radar fire control came as a later mod to the North Carolina. Now if the Iowa was a choice, then it's optical and radar fire control would be superior to all the others.

Bismark radar was useful for range only and needed optical support for angle.

Interesting question though....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 5:57 AM

2016-03-18T05:57:52-04:00

Replace North Carolina (the first of our second-generation battleships) with New Jersey (the last) and the US ship would have the advantage in both speed and accuracy, while not too far behind Yamato in range and armor. Bismarck (designed more for long cruising range and extended habitability for commerce raiding) is not in the same class for slugging power, and KG5 with 14" guns was seriously out-ranged.

Yamato was best in every way except speed and accuracy (no radar fire control), but superior in everything else.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Mar 18 at 2016 6:53 AM

2016-03-18T06:53:50-04:00

I'd have to say the Yamato. Big guns and heavy armor.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Mar 18 at 2016 10:42 AM

2016-03-18T10:42:20-04:00

SSgt Dan Montague Being that they are all big heavy ships designed to take and deliver a punch, I think it would come down to other factors. Crew most importantly, whoever is able to make their ship dance best maintaung a balance between gunnery and navigation will have the upper hand. Weather and sea state also will have an effect as the ships have to alter their strategy as weather changes. Finally just dumb luck. If a ship comes up and is able to torpedo the steering (as what happened to Bismark) then that foe is out of the fight. Not saying a battleship still able to fire is a sitting duck, but without the ability to maneuver, it becomes a bear in a trap.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 11:30 AM

2016-03-18T11:30:19-04:00

You can cross two off the list with ease.
The USS North Carolina was the runt of the group and outclassed in every way.
The George V probably had the most experienced crew, and that matters, but it too was seriously outgunned and outmatched.
Bismark was designed to be a commerce raider, sleek, fast and maneuverable. If she could make good use of her fire control system and keep Yamoto from scoring a crippling hit, she'd have a chance.
But Yamato was a monster. It could take and throw a punch like no other vessel of the time, maybe ever. In a slugfest, she would be very difficult to beat.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 18 at 2016 11:52 AM

2016-03-18T11:52:07-04:00

I have a stoopid question. Which ones were sunk by acft from carriers?

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Mar 18 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-03-18T14:01:55-04:00

Everybody should check out combinedfleet.com as it goes into this in extreme detail. In fairness, they use the South Dakota class but these ships were very similar to the NC and all the others are discussed with a few more thrown in. To me, I think it depends upon how you define winning. The Bismarck is the fastest of these ships and provided that she doesn't suffer some sort of damage to her propulsion or steering, say a torpedo to her rudders, she can outrun the other ships here and live to fight another day.

If talking about pounding each other until one is sunk or surrenders, barring a lucky shot to the magazine that blows the ship up, I'd say the clear favorite should be the North Carolina because of her gunnery. Both she and the KGV had radar-directed gunnery that would allow them to blind-fire in pitch darkness accurately. Both these ships and potentially the Bismarck had the ability to fire while maneuvering thanks to their advanced (at the time) mechanical ballistics computers. The Yamato had none of these advantages and the Bismarck's radar was adequate for range-finding but not bearing.

I'd say that between the NC and KGV that it could come down to who has bigger magazines. Since both ships could fire while maneuvering, getting hits would be very difficult. That said, I'd have to give the advantage to the NC, she's got only 1 less gun but hers are 16", weigh 2,700lbs each and would do FAR more damage per hit that the KGV.

Between the NC and Bismarck, things get more complicated. The Bismarck's superior speed would allow her to decline engagement altogether or set the range and time if she accepted. That said, I'd again say the NC wins; her guns are bigger and she has more of them, her shells are better (German shells had a tendency to not explode properly) and her gunnery would be better, especially in darkness, fog, rain, snow etc. Bismarck was bigger and could absorb more punishment but I just don't see her getting in enough hits to make it pay off unless she closes the range but that just lets the NC get in more hits as well.

The Yamato would be by far the toughest nut to crack but again, I think the NC wins. She'd be able to get consistent hits, made easier by the Yamato's size, and unlike the others, Yamato can't maneuver and fire at the same time. I think Yamato would have a VERY hard time hitting the NC while the NC would pound her from long range. IF the NC's captain was dumb enough to close the range, Yamato's chances go up but I think the worst case for the NC is that she wrecks the Yamato completely, empties her magazines doing so, and leaves Yamato an unsunk but wrecked hulk on the ocean incapable of doing anything but maybe limping back to port.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-03-18T14:04:09-04:00

Honestly, I think the Bismarck would take the victory that day. Nothing could touch that ship until the Hood laid her low in May of '41. She had the toughest hull of her time, and the greatest firepower on the sea up to that point. So out of those choices, I am reasonably sure that the Bismarck would have taken it.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Mar 18 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-03-18T14:04:32-04:00

The main armor of the King George V and the Bismarck were completely inadequate against the highly-advanced (at the time) armor-piercing shells of the Yamato and the South Carolina.

The 15" guns of the Bismarck - while formidable in 1940 - were completely outclassed by the 16" and MONSTROUS 18" guns of the Yamato. The King George V - a victim of the Washington Naval treaty - had "paltry" 14" guns (although she had 10 of them).

Regardless of any other characteristic, the ability to survive long enough to damage the foe was the key in heavy surface-to-surface warfare.

IMHO, the Bismarck and the King George V could not have survived long enough to damage the Yamato or the South Carolina. Of those two, I have to go with the Yamato. She was sunk by ELEVEN torpedoes and six bombs. What a MONSTER!!!!

Response by PFC Ralph Spyer made Jul 15 at 2017 9:14 PM

2017-07-15T21:14:17-04:00

The N.C was the Rocky Marciano of her day ,she was able to take a torpedo below water line and maintain convoy speed . the Bismarck and the King George would have to through every gun they have at the N.C and pray for a lucky hit. In open water at night the N.C is badger small but put in a corner even the Yamato would have all that she could handle

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2020 8:14 PM

2020-07-26T20:14:11-04:00

Whichever streaming service held the broadcast rights

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 25 at 2021 4:54 PM

2021-08-25T16:54:38-04:00

Bismarck, fast, but under gunned (his turrets only had 2 x 15 x 4 inch guns). Yamato Over guns everyone. to fight it, you have to get with in your guns range. King George goes into this under gunned with 14 inch guns. North Carolina comes in with 9 x 16 in guns. Speed Bismarck comes in first 30 , KGV and NC tie in second at 28, Yamato comes in last at 27. Of all the crews the Bismarck had the shortest time together. The other three ships had crews that worked together for many years before being retired or sunk. I am going to go with either the Yamato or the North Carolina. If the NC can get in range she can give the Yamato a run for the money. If the NC can't get in there, she will be doomed those 18 inch guns will sink pretty much everything out there if they connect.