Who should aid in the reestablishment of the government in Haiti?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 13:52:30 -0400

Haiti has fallen in to chaos with their government collapsing due to corruption and incompetence. The largest city in the country is ran by a confederation of six gangs. The UN is calling to action. As much as we would not like to get involved countries like China and Russia are always willing to help. Should we take part in this? Should the UN commit troops to this with US participation or we just let this country to fall into peril.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/09/1141612

Rights chief calls for international help to provide ‘way out of chaos’ in Haiti

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Volker Türk, on Thursday called for a multinational security support mission to assist the Haitian National Police (HNP) and combat the alarming escalation of violence and insecurity there.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Oct 4 at 2023 2:13 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 14:13:54 -0400

This feels like a catch 22 for the US. On one hand we don't want nations like Russia or China to stick their hand in. If they don't, than another nation state not aligned with our national interests could. If we do nothing, we are basically saying that we're willing to let Haiti slide into chaos and it's already one of the poorest, if not the poorest, country in the world. The other downside here is the number of Haitians fleeing their homes will increase and further strain federal resources that are already stretched thin (after the 2010 earthquake immigration to the US rose 17%). Also, who knows which strong man will ultimately gain control there and who the'd be willing to lie in bed with (probably Xi and Putin). On the other hand the US gets involved and we know from our past history of intervention there, Monroe doctrine, Russia/Cuba, etc. it'll be liked end in failed policy. We've been in and out of that country since the 19th century and looks where they are now.

I think the US has to not only get involved but take the lead within the UN to do it. We shouldn't be there to make every kid be an ivy league graduate and pave the streets with gold (we tried that in Iraq and Afghanistan which was a bad idea), but we need to make it stable enough to manage refugees and ensure they know the US is a better option than gang leaders, terrorist cells, and Putin/Xi.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2023 2:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 14:28:45 -0400

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/trudeau-attends-summit-of-french-speaking-nations-in-tunisia-amid-geopolitical-tumult

Canada has sent French speaking troops in the past but even recently, they were undecided on sending more troops again.

Haitian leaders must all agree if Canada leads military intervention: Trudeau

DJERBA, Tunisia — Canadian military intervention in Haiti can’t happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin…

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Oct 4 at 2023 3:03 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 15:03:29 -0400

How about the Hatians fix their own mess.

The notion that the US needs to prop up every failed government in the world is just a modernized socialist version of Manifest Destiny.

Response by PO3 Shayne Seibert made Oct 4 at 2023 5:44 PM

PO3 Shayne Seibert — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 17:44:06 -0400

I don't see how we can't go in and help. Our Hemisphere to deal with. China and Russia would love another foothold on this side of the world, and we can't allow that. UN and other western nations need to step up and take control. I know the leadership will be hand picked by liberals and will ultimately fail anyway, but we have to make the effort and keep the real communists away.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2023 11:27 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 11:27:24 -0400

So it's in our sphere and if we don't want the Russians or Chinese in there we have to do something about it.

Then, on the other side of that there only seems to be two pathways for situations like these to get under control. 1) Everyone comes to a civil agreement to govern themselves. 2) Someone with more guns than anyone else kills everyone else that is making problems for their agenda.

Both are perfectively acceptable, but they have to pick a path, and it doesn't seem that option #1 is going to happen. So who does the US back with option #2?

Whatever group the west supports and puts in western presence in place while the new group stabilizes then said new group needs to realize they need to use the aid they get to put in place infrastructure to maintain control over the population (either by force or by civic services, but they can't use it to line their pockets and ignore governance at the result of losing control of the population).

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I imagine it's much like trying to take all the gangs in LA and then forcing them to run like a democracy as we in the west understand it. Then we expect when oversight of those gangs is removed we expect them not implode back into what they were.

The values and morals of those gang members will not have been changed in a manner that allows a western system to prevail.

I think it comes down to doing just enough to keep the Russians and Chinese out of there and whatever happens, happens.

Response by CPT Edward Baker made Oct 28 at 2023 5:04 PM

CPT Edward Baker — Sat, 28 Oct 2023 17:04:04 -0400

This is such a tricky situation. Any aid sent in would just end up in the hands of one warlord or the other and not actually help the people. If, like in the past, a choice is made to support this warlord or that one, we just put power into one evil over the other. I we do nothing then China or Russia will step in and try to gain a foot hold that would allow them to move in some miliary power. I don't see any way of helping the nation without military intervention. This in itself will be tricky because then the warlords could combine their power to fight what they would call an invasion. This is however, the only road to recovery for the people there and it will come with a high loss of life. Only by eliminating these warlords and their followers will some sort of peace be obtainable. That said, a martial law government would need to be established, during the rebuilding phase, to ensure that funds and other aid went to the people and the rebuilding of the island nation.