When you go AWOL, do they make you sign a counseling?

2023-11-27T00:43:45-05:00

Long story short, I was supposed to discharge for personal and medical reasons in April. Well without my knowledge, they transferred me to a new unit.
Get a call late August about drills, told them I turned in all my gear and was supposed to get out.
Commander calls in November saying , “no”. And I need to be at drill (mind you I have no uniforms) no one has questioned my whereabouts or anything. Never signed a counseling statement as to why I didn’t attend drills because my NCO said things were in the works and I was good. Well I can’t go to my upcoming drill, I told the commander but he said I can get an AWOL discharge with bad characterization. But from all the army pubs, I can’t be AWOL until I miss so many drills. I technically never been counseled. Need advice.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Nov 27 at 2023 1:40 AM

2023-11-27T01:40:53-05:00

Who Told You That You Were Being Discharged?
Do You Have The Paperwork Saying You Turned In Your Gear ?
Have You Been In Contact With Your CoC Since April?
Are You Guard Or Reserve ?
If You Have No Paperwork Saying You Were Being Discharged And Turned In Your Gear, And Have Not Attended Drill Since April, Technically You Have Been AWOL Since April.
No Counseling Required, If You Have Not Been In Contact With Your COC.
All They Have To Say Is They Tried Contacting You And You Did Not Respond.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Nov 27 at 2023 5:54 AM

2023-11-27T05:54:44-05:00

You are AWOL if you miss a single Unit Training Assembly, you can be discharged after so many missed UTA's. The number used to be 10. If you aren't there, they can't counsel you in person, but they can write a counselling statement and drop in your file with the note that the soldier wasn't present.

Response by COL Randall C. made Nov 27 at 2023 10:01 AM

2023-11-27T10:01:13-05:00

Reading your original posts as well as your other comments, there are a couple of things to unwind. Based on the questions you’ve asked previously of the community in other posts, it sounds like you contracted for OCS around mid-2021 and failed OCS (or were in danger of failing) in late-2022.

First, if everything you said is accurate, it looks like "there’s plenty of blame to spread around” - yourself included. To paraphrase an old truism, "ignorance is no excuse." I'm not referring to the transfer, I'm referring to the discharge. If the last you engaged with anyone was in ?April? (emails back and forth from the Readiness NCO (RNCO)), and weeks went by without the expected paperwork coming in the mail, then not following up is all on you.

Having said all that, there is a lot on the other side as well.

Obviously, there is a problem with the processing of your discharge. Either it wasn’t submitted, it was and got kicked-back, it’s been sitting on someone’s desk or in their inbox and wasn’t actioned, etc. TODAY you should be on the phone with your old unit to try and get it resolved. Additionally, TODAY you should contact your old unit’s leadership and let them know your situation if you haven’t already done so.

Regarding the unit transfer - If you still have a military obligation (you do), then you can be involuntarily transferred to another unit, however it must be within “reasonable commuting distance” of your residence. The Army (and NGB) still uses the previous “DoD-wide” definition for units that have “normal drill weekends” (MUTA-4 over two days) which is either “50 miles or under 1.5 hours commute” or “100 miles or under 3 hours commute” (one-way) depending on if the unit provides meals and quarters at the IDT site (NGB 600-200 & AR 135-91).

Your comment about the “new unit is 2.5 hours away” indicates it is in the second category or might be more than 100 miles away. If >100 miles or it’s in the second category and the new unit doesn’t provide meals & lodging on drill weekends, then unless you gave written concurrence (not verbal – it must be written), someone screwed-up.

Regarding an “AWOL discharge with bad characterization” – The characterization part is correct in that a Chapter 12 discharge (Unsatisfactory Participation in the Ready Reserve) is normally an Other Than Honorable Discharge. However, there are steps that must be taken to do a Chapter 12 discharge (AR 135-178, Chapter 12), one of which is being classified as having “unsatisfactory performance” according to AR 135-91*. For you, that is the accrual of 9 or more unexcused absences from a training period within a 12-month window (AR 135-1, para 4-12). Keep in mind that each UTA is a training period, so that would happen on the third drill weekend.

The other factors to keep in mind – you were notified of the transfer in August (based on your post) but didn’t receive any correspondence required by the regulation (or left it out of your comments) for unsatisfactory performance. Technically you’ve missed 8 drill periods already, but you should have received official written notification after September’s drill and October’s drill by certified mail – but that’s a distinction you can use if there is a Chapter 12 discharge being processed and not something that’s going to prevent it from being started.

Personally, from the new unit’s point of view, you were given two additional months to straighten things out about your discharge, so I can’t really hold it against the commander for their intransigence as they likely have no knowledge of the situation other than what a Soldier who hasn’t shown up for drills has given. Going back to ownership of your actions (or lack of them) – you should have been on the phone with your old unit back in August, immediately after the call from the new unit, to find out what was going on.

You never mentioned which state you were in, so I’ll give you general advice on who to contact for assistance.

First, continue to attempt to work it out with the unit leadership (new and old) to determine what happened with the separation paperwork and to try and resolve your upcoming drill status. "Continue to" doesn't mean one phone call and you're done. Additionally, as I mentioned above, make sure the Commander of your old unit is aware of your situation by talking with them on the phone, going in person to talk with them on a drill weekend, or some other form of direct communication - someone telling you that they will give the message to the commander doesn't work in this situation.

If nothing comes from the continued interaction with leadership, THEN you can go one of two routes – either contact the state IG (if there isn’t one that you’re under at a lower level) or a “personnel” individual at higher/state headquarters. Which route really depends on how much leadership is working with you to resolve the issue.

If this was something you were actively engaged with from the time the discharge was supposed to happen, then I would suggest state-level leadership – it’s amazing effect the state’s Army Senior Enlisted Advisor has when Soldiers are on the wrong end of bureaucracy … but less so if the Soldier isn’t showing any effort to resolve the issue before it becomes a crisis.

For the state IG, the only reason I would point you that way is because primarily the unit transfer issue - while the 'rest of your situation' is potentially paperwork foul-ups, the assignment is a clear violation of DoD/Army policy and regulations (DoDI 1215.13 & AR 135-91, para 5-5). In addition, you tried to resolve the issue though leadership (that first step I mentioned) and there was a breakdown in processing of your discharge packet that wasn’t able to be resolved by the unit.

Again, you MUST try to resolve this through the unit first – that’s the very first question an IG will normally ask when you contact them.

Keep in mind the facts of the situation and not the “emotional facts”:
- The sequence of events that should have been happening since April regarding you discharge (i.e., the correspondence from your RNCO, turn-in of equipment, etc.)
- You were notified that you were being transferred to a new unit in August (phone call with _____) and informed them of the pending separation. There was no additional follow-up by the unit until the commander called you in November.
- You didn’t pursue it at the time (the discharge was supposed to happen), but the involuntary transfer to the new unit is outside the reasonable commuting distance as defined by NGB and Army policy and you never gave verbal approval let alone a written one.
- You are working with leadership (now) to see what caused this situation. You were assured the discharge paperwork was pending back in ______ and a transfer to another unit should have never happened (especially one so far away).
- Acknowledge your part in the situation for being passive about the discharge actions (no, you’re not responsible for someone not doing their job, but a responsible individual is expected to raise concerns if something isn’t going right) in that you didn’t follow-up. If nothing else, eating a bit of humble pie goes a long way to establishing legitimacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------
* DoDI 1215.13 (Ready Reserve Member Participation Policy) - https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/121513p.pdf
* AR 135-178 (ARNG/USAR Enlisted Administrative Separations) - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN30704-AR_135-178-000-WEB-1.pdf
* NGR 600-200 (Enlisted Personnel Management) - https://www.ngbpmc.ng.mil/Portals/27/Publications/NGR/NGR%20600-200_20210325_v2.pdf
* AR 135-91 (Service Obligations, Methods of Fulfillment, Participation Requirements, and Enforcement Provisions) - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN8277_AR135-91_Web_FINAL.pdf

121513p.pdf

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Nov 27 at 2023 10:29 AM

2023-11-27T10:29:43-05:00

Technically you are AWOL/UA when you are not there on a duty day without a valid reason/approval/authorization. The threshold of how many drills you have to miss before being discharged for missing drill is a different issue altogether. The easiest thing to do would be to make child care arrangements in advance and plan to attend drill with all documentation you have to include who sent you home to await paperwork and receipts to show all equipment was turned in and signed for. This clearly isn't something you can fix via email.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2023 11:33 AM

2023-11-27T11:33:22-05:00

Bottom line is, you signed a contract and you obligated yourself for 8 years. This does not change until you have paperwork stating otherwise (has nothing to do with failing to complete OCS). You cannot go to the IRR without an MOS/AOC. It does not sound like you have been discharged. You can either go to drill and schedule training requirements for a MOS or you can continue to do nothing and let your new command chapter you out for unsatisfactory participation (it was in your contract).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2023 1:42 PM

2023-11-27T13:42:23-05:00

You are in until such time as you have received Discharge Orders. Until you receive said discharge orders, you are obligated/required to attend Battle Training Assemblies.

Not having uniforms is not a valid reason to not attend Battle Assembly. There is a system in place to get you new uniforms.

You receive a "U" for Unsatisfactory Participation/Unexcused Absence for every portion of BTA you miss. A standard 2 Day BTA has 4 Pay Lines; morning and afternoon for each day. You miss one of those portions, you get a "U." If you miss the entire 2-Day BTA, you have accrued 4 'U's." You accrue 9 "U's," the Commander begins the Chapter packet for Separation. However, before you even get to the 9th "U," there is some form of attempt to contact you. This includes, but not limited to, personal visit, email, phone call, certified letter.

If you are not reached, or you do not respond to the attempts of contact, you can be chaptered persona non grata and receive a Discharge that would possibly not be conducive to your future.

Since you listed very little information in your post, I would venture an assessment that you and your two units all dropped the ball on this.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Nov 27 at 2023 4:11 PM

2023-11-27T16:11:30-05:00

Ashley Michelle,
Never settle for "bad characterization" because this is your career, fight for it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Nov 28 at 2023 11:40 AM

2023-11-28T11:40:40-05:00

Supposed to be discharged? Ever got orders, MEB, etc.? No paperwork, then it didn't happen. Transferred you- they don't have to have your permission, but you should have gotten orders for it, if you were AWOL or a deserter, then that didn't probably happen. Sounds like you are lucky only if the charge is AWOL and not desertion. You need to get your paperwork together, cause they seem to think you are still in the service, and it can only get worse.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2023 6:17 PM

2023-11-29T18:17:48-05:00

Ashley Michelle Your communications with your unit have exceeded the telephone/email limits to move your case in any direction other than an negative outcome. Face to face with the unit command, and all documentation you have to support your case is going to have to happen. You have a lot of "NCO said" in your post. That will be difficult to support absent any proof.
Lots of good advice from knowledgeable people on this post.
Good luck, and get it right..

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made Dec 27 at 2023 12:22 PM

2023-12-27T12:22:19-05:00

I thought I recognized this from an earlier post.

Based on recollection of that post and what you have provided here, as former technician in the USAR who has also been an ARNG AGR Unit Clerk,
I'd be done with all of what appears to be your lack of responsibility toward your Military Oath of Enlistment and would follow up by processing whatever was necessary to grant you a discharge for failure to participate.
That fact that you have let so much time expire is a blatant exhibition of your lack of interest in fulfilling the obligation you assumed when signing your DD Form 4 and raising your hand taking an oath to '...support and defend the Constitution...'

You've lost the war because you failed to handle the battle.