When should a Soldier be pulled from duty prior to ETS?

2015-12-03T06:00:23-05:00

SM seperating is an MP - when should he be pulled from duty to allow a smooth transition? (He has already completed ACAP/SFL)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 6:33 AM

2015-12-03T06:33:37-05:00

My opinion on it is the soldier should be pulled from duty once there phase 2 physical is completed. They can still do regular duty as far as working at the company is concerned but once the phase 2 physical is complete they should not be working law enforcement duties or going to the field.

Response by TSgt David L. made Dec 3 at 2015 6:35 AM

2015-12-03T06:35:49-05:00

We always gave our guys the last 30 days for TMO, finance and other appointments. It depended on the SM on how much time they really NEEDED. A week or two without major unit duties should take care of it if you allow time for other appointments during duty hours.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 7:40 AM

2015-12-03T07:40:13-05:00

It all depends on the OPTEMPO.........when I ETS'ed (ended up going back in a year later), I worked up until the very end.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 7:40 AM

2015-12-03T07:40:23-05:00

I say take care of the Soldier! If your in the position to allow the Soldier to have more time do so. A lot of times leadership forgets what its like to be in certain situations. I try to always if mission allows to er on the side of the Soldier because we have to take care of people. I treat them and handle situations as if it were me in their situation. One thing i have learned in all my years the Army will go on without you no matter how great of a leader you are. To answer the question directly he should be pulled when it's best for the Soldier and the unit to allow maximum time to prepare for his transition.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 3 at 2015 8:51 AM

2015-12-03T08:51:15-05:00

This is tricky.

If I change jobs in the civilian world, I DON'T get pulled from "duty" to allow for transition. I stop work on one day, and go to my new job on the next work day.

The military already gives things like househunting (permissive TAD), classes, checkout, and quite a bit of other "perks" which just aren't available.

Are we perhaps hitting the point of having "unreasonable expectations?"

I say this because every day that we have a troop who isn't performing "job function" is a day that another troop(s) is covering their "slack." This isn't a bad thing, because we do it for each other, but we should actively try to keep it to a minimum.

When I got out after 8 years, the final "year" (probably 9 months) was mostly transition. That's including the 3 months of terminal leave I took on the tail end.

The biggest issue is "checking out" of whatever post you are on. Some placed take a full 30 days. Some places take less than a week.Once the person has "checked out" they are effectively worthless, because they don't have any gear, no records, and if something happens, you create a bigger burden than any benefit they provide. So try and get the timing so that you don't have a "dead man walking."

Response by SGT David T. made Dec 3 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-12-03T10:22:41-05:00

My recommendation would be if you can afford one less troop do it as early as possible. Things like ACAP aren't overly helpful (based on what I experienced it may have changed) and the job market is tough right now. Finding a job can take a long time so if you can help them by giving them the max time I would. I had 90 days until I ETSd from the time I returned from Iraq the last time. They had me pulling staff duty and CQ up until 30 days out. If you can avoid this, it will help them out a lot but of course you have to balance out mission with it too.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Dec 3 at 2015 2:22 PM

2015-12-03T14:22:17-05:00

I heard the Marine Corps uses the Fleet Assistance Program sometimes to let people ride out their last few months or whatever to out-process, assuming this Terminal Lance comic is correct: http://terminallance.com/2013/04/29/terminal-lance-265-fapd-out/

I wish all branches had something like this. I've seen lot of people who are not motivated and do not care when they are getting ready to separate or retire but are still in their work center busy as can be while out processing. The quality of work and morale of everyone else can suffer at this time. Everyone is replaceable and I wish these programs existed in all branches to get the people who are not separating used to the idea that the person who is leaving, and that they may be relying on for all of the answers, well they are going to be gone one day, so get used to it now. I know that may be harsh but it's true.

Anyway, thankfully I was motivated enough and didn't have much to do on my out processing checklist, but not counting TAP, I was able to get just about everything else done the week after TAP other than my final finance and personnel appointments, but it was stressful as it felt like people above me wanted to deny my terminal leave, and/or make it very hard to take all of the days. Thankfully I was able to take all of the days I saved up but the experience was more stressful than it should have been.

Terminal Lance - Terminal Lance #265 “FAP’d Out”

During my last 4 or 5 months in the Marine Corps I FAP’d over to the MCBH Combat Camera shop to finish out my contract in relative peace. The mere fact that the FAP (Fleet Assistance Program) exists is in a way the Corps actually acknowledging how shitty being in the infantry can be. Generally (ideally), when a Marine comes back from their 2nd deployment they usually don’t have much time left on their 4 year contract. As a general attaboy, the...

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 3 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-12-03T14:53:43-05:00

I submitted my Retirement papers while I was still deployed to Iraq, once we returned to garrison my 1SG told me just to show up to first formation of the date for accountability and I stood behind the Platoon in formation so I would allow the NCO in my place to take charge. This worked well for me because it gave me plenty of time to prepare for my retirement and transition out of the Army. So I say as soon as a soldier can be pulled from duty the better.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-12-03T16:12:44-05:00

Before I retired if they were working the road most people would drop them from "road" duty about 30 days prior. That way they wouldn't get caught up in any cases that would require them to be brought back TDY to testify. However when I was a PSG I would have the soldier show up for PT and first call. Afterwards I allowed them time to take care of appointments and whatever else they needed to transition smoothly to the civilian sector. I just had them check in with their leadership periodically throughout the day.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 4:33 PM

2015-12-03T16:33:01-05:00

Explain "pulled from duty"....what does that entail? If that means the soldier shows up for PT and accountability... then I say yes. Is this what you mean?

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 3 at 2015 5:06 PM

2015-12-03T17:06:41-05:00

I would recommend that they should be pulled from duty early enough that they can complete all they need to do. He may have ACAP done, but he still needs to look for a job, a place to live, make arrangements to ship HHG etc. If he will be filing a VA claim, he should do that before he leaves the Army and given time to attend all the necessary appointments for the exams. Once he completes phase 2 of his physical, you should limit what he does; such as no PT and no field duty / patrols. Assign him to an office job if need be. But, allow ample time to handle any personal appointments they may need.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-12-03T17:48:38-05:00

I know when I was 10 days short my unit tried to get me to a field problem. My boss seemed surprised when I told him that I was short and needed to clear. It sucked trying to clear right before a FTX, let me tell you.

I would say at least 10 working days prior to transition. I don't know what kind of mandatory "here's how to become a civilian again" classes the Army required, and how far in advance of ETS.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 3 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-12-03T18:52:00-05:00

Generally two weeks should do it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 8:09 PM

2015-12-03T20:09:27-05:00

It would depend on the type of duty. If you are working MPI you need to go to desk duty severl months before you ETS. But you could do a CQ/Staff Duty shift days before they start leave. There are still way that soldier can still be productive to the unit and still be given time to clear and prepare to get out.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-12-03T21:27:40-05:00

What I do is put them on admin duty helping me out in the office, maintnance etc, but they remain on standby to help on the road or gates if needed. Then they completely come off once their CIF and road equipment is turned in. So far it's worked for me as a PSG. simple but effective allowing them time to clear but not enough time to just sham out of work.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 11:34 PM

2015-12-03T23:34:04-05:00

I would say that you work up until you absolutely have to finish clearing prior to your ETS leave starting. As long as you are there, might as well use some of your knowledge to shale your junior Soldiers. But use this time to make sure you have everything ready for your transition.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Dec 4 at 2015 1:58 AM

2015-12-04T01:58:37-05:00

I just remembered!

When I PCS'ed from DC to FL my checklist printed out was 18 pages and nothing was checked off so I had to call 10+ offices. This was at a base with a minimal mission and services on base so I don't get it. I didn't have much off base other than movers, let my complex know, turn electric off and return my cable box/modem.

When I out-processed for separation from the military three years later, my combined base and military out-processing checklist was only six pages and half of it was checked off right away or with in a matter of a few days automatically.

It boggles the mind.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 4 at 2015 3:03 AM

2015-12-04T03:03:38-05:00

Prettty much a common sense issue, and "Duty" has a wide variety of descriptions. First and foremost a service member's unit has a command responsibilty to ensure the service member has plenty of time to do everything that is essential prior to seperation. That means that attend TAP/TAMP classes and get a THOROUGH final physical (preferably in conjuction with the VA). Those two activities usually happen with a month of seperation and depending on the local program can take 2-3 weeks to compltete.
The service member should also be given ample time to "check out" with all the base and unit agencies and ensure that all his administrative issues are settled. There last three to five days should be dedicated to that.
As far as other duties, once a service member has a final physical, they should definately not particpate in any type of PT or physical activity that could cause an injury. As far as other duties the service member definately can and should stand duty and assist the unit in maintanance and training as long as it doesn't interfere with their seperation.
To break it down the last 30 days of service should be dedicated to ensuring a smooth separation.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Dec 4 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-12-04T11:34:03-05:00

I was pulled from working cases 6 weeks prior to ETS while at CID in Germany. I had my choice (limited) of where I wanted to go so I went across the strasse to 97th General Hospital and worked in Medical Supply where my wife was a GS-9. USACEUR didn't want to fly me back from CONUS to testify at a court martial for a case I had worked 2-3 weeks ago. Made perfect sense to me....
Thanks,
Rick

Response by Sgt David Hesser made Dec 6 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-12-06T18:32:29-05:00

times have changed, when I got out in 77 I had to approach the Capt 2 days before my contract ended and said that am I suppose to be in sep center, he said he thought I reenlisted, 2 days later I was out looking for a job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 3:01 PM

2016-04-06T15:01:29-04:00

As a PSG, if I had anyone that had completed their Phase two medical portion, they were pulled from almost all duties. They still had to show up to formations and they were the ones that I tasked with a CQ/Staff Duty shift from time to time if needed. Just nothing physical that could compromise them getting injured.