When does an NCO cross the line from being an assertive leader, to being a bully?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 10:44:19 -0400

Long story short, I'm not the best soldier and I admit I have made a few mistakes and I have learned from them. But I have an NCO who cusses at me, berates me in front of my peers, calls me names in front of my peers, and has vowed to end my career.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2014 10:53 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 10:53:56 -0400

First off Kudos on identifying your shortfalls and trying to correct them. Second have you addressed this with someone higher than this individual? Is this in response to something you did, or is it all the time for no reason? Either way this is not a way to treat subordinates.

This sounds like a lack of leadership and should be addressed. A leader should be working on making their SM better not trying to make them worse.

Either talk to someone above his head or start requesting MAST to try to get it fixed. Use this to form your own idea of leadership and take what you don't like and incorporate it into your leadership style so you don't make the same mistakes.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2014 11:21 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 11:21:15 -0400

SPC K; from the Battalion Command perspective, not enough to go off of here. While your NCO sounds somewhat over the top, if we removed every NCO that cursed, we'd only have about 10% of our force left. I'd need to know if he singles you out specifically or if he is a grade-A douche-copter to everyone? Beyond addressing the NCO, there are a couple of things you can do. Absolutely destroy any task given to you and then do more. I have had 3 REALLY bad bosses in my career. My response to their BS and cursing and punishment was to swim harder and faster than everyone else around me. People like this attack the weakest member of the pack. You don't have to be faster than the bear. That old addage isn't about screwing your buddy, it's about improving your performance so you are so far ahead of the weakest member of the pack that it isn't even interesting to the bear to try and chase you down. If you aren't ready to do that...well...the bear is going to keep chewing on your 4th point of contact. If it is really bad, ask for a transfer. That being said, you have to live with the reputation you plant in the ground. If I were you, I'd become the hardest, meanest SOB in that seciton/squad, get lean, max the PT test, prepare for the Soldier of the Month Board and blow the bottom out of every other person competing. If you can get that stability under your feet, the "bear" won't have much room to maneuver on you and will move on to his next target...highlighting his tendancy to be a borderline toxic leader...or you might realize that while he's an SOB, he challenged you to be better than you were. Somewhere in the Army right now, there's a Specialist who in 25 years is going to be the Command Sergeant Major of the Army...why can't that be you?

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jul 8 at 2014 1:44 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:44:44 -0400

When? Right there! (In your example)

If an adult (NCO) cusses at, berates or calls names to another adult (Soldier), in front of peers or not, this crossed the line and is the definition of 'toxic leadership'.

Get with your NCO Support Channel immediately or this NCO will think this is acceptable behavior and only get worse as he/she progresses through the ranks.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2014 1:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:59:36 -0400

NCO support channel. That NCO has an NCO above him/her.

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Jul 8 at 2014 2:02 PM

SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:02:55 -0400

Not sure there is a "line" between the two. However, if the action taken does not pull their soldiers back in line than the NCO went the wrong direction. They should redirect and correct (don't look for an apology). While some are really enjoying the power trip, most NCOs are held to the line of effective leadership by their own superiors. I've had many hard-nosed leaders (and some were bullies) but I came out stronger and learned how to avoid repeating poor leadership decisions. Remember: "what doesn't kill you..."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2014 6:08 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:08:49 -0400

I over slept one morning, so I ended up getting a counseling statement and had to report in an hour before pt. however, another soldier did the same thing and he didn't get anything. So, I do know that this "NCO" has singled me out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2014 4:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:20:40 -0400

Here is the deal, this is an extremely simple issue with a simple answer. That being said it has become one of the biggest problems facing todays Army. Simple put; as NCO's we are not charged with taking punitive action or providing punishment for substandard performance. The only role the Army has given us to that effect is once you reach a certain grade you may recommend that the command determine if punishment is needed. That being said....what are we as NCO's tasked with by the Army? Well simply put our core duty to our subordinates is training, mentoring and devolping. That must first start with trust and respect. That by no means in my opinion means we need to be nice. I have said many times before sometimes taking care of your Soldiers includes a boot up their butt. As an NCO we must understand first that we must be more accountable to our Soldier than we require them to be of us. I may be old school but I believe that a failure of a Soldier is a failure of their leadership as well. Now under those assertions my take on being an assertive leader vs being a bully is where it becomes extremly simple. From my experiance, it's not what you say, it's not how you say it, its not the foul language, if it was in front or peers or alone or even that you embarresed or threatened the Soldier. It comes down to one thing, who did you do it for. Was it about an NCO needing to feed their ego or loosing their cool. Which is the case in many situations than quite simply that is bullying, because it does not fit into the mission we are tasked with as NCO's to train, mentor and devolp. The only thing that comes from that is tearing a Soldier down, but in no way provides any devolpment or actions for improvement. One thing I try to teach every young NCO I come across is no matter this situation you come across no matter how deep you jusp into the Soldiers butt ask yourself is this about improving the Soldier or feeding my ego? The conversation regardless the situation the conversation no matter the tone needs to begin and end with improving the Soldier. If the Soldier feels like the butt chewing they just got was all about improving them and they walk away understanding what the expectation is for them to improve moving forward they will except and appricate that you took the time to chew their butt. I'll close with this I had a conversation with a newly promoted admin SSG last night. We were talking about the NCO's that are worried about being liked. Because it was something subcontiously he thought about as thats what he understood taking care of Soldiers to be. I explained I have no desire to be liked. I wanted to be trusted and respected, nothing more. He looked at me confused. So I asked him this question. Think back to all the NCO's you worked with or for in the past that you liked. He had difficulty really remembering many of them, he knew there were some, but once he left they werre forgotten because there was no real substance. I ten asked him to think about the NCO's that made the biggest positive influance on him the NCO's he loved. He immediatly got a smile on his face. I asked him was he hard on you? his response was very. Did you like him? Response not really? Did you trust and respect him? Absolutly as his smile got bigger. Thats why I don't care about being like. If you can be an NCO that is worried about being truly trusted and respected you will wind up being loved.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2015 11:23 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:23:13 -0400

I have experienced what your talking about. I was the new private when it happen I took it higher and they fixed it by putting the nco out of command of any soldiers for his last few months of military career. While I was out under another nco who while he could be hard as hell on me taught me everything that I know Now and I still talk to him when I have issues that are personal that he knows about and will talk me through them.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 2 at 2016 4:45 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 04:45:09 -0500

One problem You keep telling someone they are substandard more often that not they live up to that. If You encourage people the results can be good. I had one Young E4 that another supervisor had a great stack of paper on Him and the Young man in the NCOs eyes could do no right. I ended up with that troop myself, I took the stack of paper and discarded it all told that E4 I didn't care what someone else thought of Him, I'll form My own opinion You do a good job for Me We will get along fine. He ended up being one of My better troops and I had some good ones. You could count on Him to do any task that was needed and even go the extra mile. When it came to writing His performance report I wrote and outstanding one and He had earned it. He also found that I stood behind Him and was not intimidated by the rank of anyone else, if You right Your right. You treat someone like a human being most people will respond like a human being. Most the time is You encourage someone they will respond in a positive manner. Made My job easier also people did the job because they wanted to !

Response by SPC Dustin Brown made Nov 6 at 2019 12:54 PM

SPC Dustin Brown — Wed, 06 Nov 2019 12:54:55 -0500

In the nick creed it says I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure profit and personal safety

Response by SPC Dustin Brown made Nov 6 at 2019 12:55 PM

SPC Dustin Brown — Wed, 06 Nov 2019 12:55:15 -0500

Nco creed