When do you think dress-right-dress is archaic and an actual hindrance?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:54:29 -0400

I understand that essential tasks run smoothly when everything is lined up perfectly in the motor pool, during TA-50 layouts, and when out in the field. That's necessary dress-right-dress. But I consider it to be unnecessary micromanaging when permanent party Soldiers are required to stow a specific number of clothes in specific drawers and to hide the rest of their belongings in duffelbags on top of wall lockers.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Mar 20 at 2018 12:58 PM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:58:12 -0400

The discipline of simple tasks are the foundation for discipline in more complex warfighting tasks

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Mar 20 at 2018 12:58 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:58:54 -0400

Note the three groups this post came under, there is a clue there.

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Mar 20 at 2018 12:59 PM

Sgt John Steinmeier — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:59:02 -0400

Is it bad that I still do this

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 1:03 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:03:46 -0400

Is that still going on.............it was BS then and BS now

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 1:06 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:06:06 -0400

Hmmm, interesting.

On the one hand, I "get your point"...it isn't like the world's going to fall apart because of how someone lays out their underwear.

On the other hand, I've always understood these practices to be about building habit patterns that increase attention to detail and trend towards efficiency. For example, I can agree that if Soldiers are "hiding" the superfluous articles, the "point" of the exercise may be moot.

To this day, some twenty-two years after the fact, I still get "annoyed" if my "stuff" isn't in such an order than I have exactly what I need...where I can get at it quickly. Then again, maybe I'm just "OCD" :)

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Mar 20 at 2018 1:20 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:20:36 -0400

I have never been in a unit that required the soldiers in the billets to do anything of the sort.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 20 at 2018 1:58 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:58:44 -0400

Dress -rite- dress should never go out of style. My things in my drawers are stowed, folded and set up by item type to this day. I can find socks, scivies , shirts and trousers in the dark by touch and not turn a light on and wake my wife.
That type of inspection does a couple things, it makes it very easy for the inspector (you) to see at a glance if Joe has the correct number of T shirts, scivies, socks, uniforms and what ever else is on their issue list.
I lived in the barracks till I got married in my mid twenties and keeping my gear set up to standard did me no irreparable harm.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 20 at 2018 2:12 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:12:22 -0400

They have relaxed so many things now that we are having issues we didn't have back in the day, everyone wants it to be real easy but they don't want to pay the price of what happens when troops get sloppy. Following inspection SOP's allows for the inspector to glance and see what is wrong rather than looking at shit pile and try to figure out what the troop is trying to hide. Plain and simple and I would put my gear dress right dress for an inspection with zero complaints, good enough for the troops good enough for me.

Response by SGT David T. made Mar 20 at 2018 2:24 PM

SGT David T. — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:24:23 -0400

I bet if you all were paid hourly, there would be a lot less emphasis on it to be sure lol

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 2:30 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:30:21 -0400

Never. If your billet is in supply, then your inventories will run allot smoother whem you can see an empty space where a piece of equipment should be and accountability is accomplished.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 2:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:30:35 -0400

you volunteered to walk within the guardrails of this society when you joined. Now do it and enforce the standard.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Mar 20 at 2018 2:58 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:58:48 -0400

Well I had to GOOGLE TA-50 to understand what the Hell was being talked about. then I wondered WHY the hell you would be having a Seabag Inspection in a Motor Pool, then I realized you could have a TA-50 on a M1A1 tank. Once I understood the complexities, it made full sense.
Archaic or a hindrance?? To someone who has done it for the 30th or 40th time maybe it could seem like, Just like the Aircraft weapons loading checklist we used when we loaded our birds before an Alpha strike in Vietnam, After loading a few hundred Mk-82 or Mk83 Low Drag or Snake Eye High Drag Bombs or loading 30 to 35,000 rounds of 20MM electrically primed ammunition into the M61A1, or the 5" FFAR Missiles or the AIM-9 Sidewinders on the rails I could go on.. all of it repetitive all of it done the sale way every time. BUT each time it done BY THE BOOK to prevent a single thing from being missed. There is a reason why the TA-50 was set up the way it was. Whether it was expediency, simplicity or ease in unpacking and then repacking whatever is being inspected. Just because the reasons escape you does not mean they are archaic.
I once asked my LPO why we had to clean the Nose Cones of the AIM7 Sparrow Missiles with GoJo hand cleaner. A greasy smear surely will not slow the Mach 2 Speed of the Missile. What I thought to be a stupid job I learned that a simple greasy smear could actually affect the ability of the Seeker head to receive the reflected signal from the target aircraft.. Imagine that. So we may not know the reasons behind what we do, but There are reasons. Just like the reasons behind breaking Civilians in Boot Camp and start training Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen to be members of the Finest Military on the face of the Earth.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 4:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:40:38 -0400

TA-50 layouts were to see if everybody had what was issued, and necessary to have in that unit, for the mission.
As you know, humans have a talent to not have, or have, when instructions were clearly given. With that said, people in the service's history brought it upon themselves, to have someone always checking what was issued and suppose to have, at the ready.
And, if you have many other things that you want to have, why during the inspection would you have the inspector, have to look and account for those items.
In essence, Uniform/Uniformity is the key element, which the service's thrive on, in order to be prepared, and at the ready, at any given moment for their mission.
There is no waist of time, nor loss, for the TA-50 inspection, the service's to me are 24/7, or the battle has already been loss.
Yes, it is an inconvenience to some, but when someone is shooting and trying to kill you, and you don't have what is necessary with you, "How inconvenience is that."
Salute, to you, and thank you for the conversation.

Response by SGT(P) Michael H. made Mar 20 at 2018 4:51 PM

SGT(P) Michael H. — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:51:21 -0400

One quick question...Is our unit set to deploy soon? I have seen units have their deploying soldiers cut down on everything they own not military and have them store it, and do something similar to what you are describing in preparation to a long deployment. What better way to get young soldiers to get their minds wrapped around the concept of minimalism? Just wondering, really. Cheers!

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 20 at 2018 5:03 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:03:04 -0400

If unit barracks SOP dictates one wall locker for specific display purposes that is one thing. If the whole room has to be exact to an SOP with little to no room for personalization then your unit either has a discipline problem they are correcting or overbearing leaders. If you don't know of a disciplinary reason then chances are your command might be overbearing.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 5:06 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:06:14 -0400

When you’re maneuvering to close with the enemy.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 20 at 2018 5:50 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:50:58 -0400

Agreed, I always thought it was a waste of time and effort. I would like ot think the 1sg or CSM had better things to do with their time.

Response by PO1 Cassiopeia Goldenstein made Mar 20 at 2018 5:53 PM

PO1 Cassiopeia Goldenstein — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:53:08 -0400

I've usually been a quiet easy going guy, very few people have heard me raise my voice, or knew that my first enlistment was in The Marine Corps. I served 16 years in the Navy after that.

I remember the last time I used the command (Dress-right-dress). The ship's company was assembled on deck for a ceremony that had yet to start. Officers were lined up on one side, chiefs on the other, and in a disorganized mess in the middle were the E-6 and below, the volume of chatter began to rise, and I was sick of it, I walked out front and center, pulled out my parade ground voice, and put the ship's company in order. Even the chiefs and officers quieted down.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 21 at 2018 9:50 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:50:20 -0400

Our military has standards creating disciplines that will carry you through training and combat, and further in life. Ask questions and learn from the wisdom of the response, you will become a great NCO, Officer, leader. Thank you for your service.

Response by SPC John Decker made Mar 21 at 2018 11:27 AM

SPC John Decker — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 11:27:53 -0400

Even when I was active duty, I always thought of military personnel as assets, not individuals. Getting the command "dress-right-dress" from a junior NCO or officers could be perceived as a confidence builder for the commander. Getting the command from someone more senior might just be force of habit. The idea of displaying certain items and hiding others, I believe, has to do with inspections. The inspector is looking for conformity. How would he/she know something was missing if everyone had something different on display?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 1:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 13:19:38 -0400

The point is discipline and attention to detail.However, I do see your point and personally agree. I also haven't had inspections like that since AIT. Even the I had extra and never touched anything my drawers. Every I've been in does birth month audits for clothing and TA-50 for all E4 and below. NCOs can do their audits at home and digitally sign their clothing records. I'm also a reservist and have always lived off post or in private on post housing for my mobilizations.

Response by MSgt Arthur Stewart made Mar 21 at 2018 1:34 PM

MSgt Arthur Stewart — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 13:34:41 -0400

I guess its all part of the good order & discipline mantra. Its also about what insanity is about according to Einstein; "Doing something over and over and expect a different result" Dress -right-dress keeps our universe uniformed.

Response by PO1 Mary Vermont made Mar 21 at 2018 2:57 PM

PO1 Mary Vermont — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 14:57:18 -0400

You sound like the people who think religion and marrage are archaic.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 10:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 22:05:29 -0400

Personally I believe that the reason so many find it hard to see value in Drill and ceremony is because as a force as a whole we fail our young Soldiers who then become leaders in teaching the how to do Drill and ceremony. So when we do it we fail to execute properly. When you look at your formation and your privates are you most precise and best Soldiers at Drill we have failed. It doesn’t take a Drill Sergeant to instruct it. FM 3-21.5 is available for everyone interested!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 22 at 2018 6:00 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:00:04 -0400

Attention detail keep you from getting killed! See HeartBreak Ridge? Didn't happen to the USMC, it was 2nd Bde (325th AIR)/82nd Abnb Div. Our TALO/ALO crew was so excited about a real fight, that they forgot to load the batteries for their radios. The never brought them on inspections so as to keep them charged up.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 1 at 2018 11:51 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 01 May 2018 11:51:19 -0400

1. That's the way it's done- 2. Their room is not the Hilton, they don't have maid service,3. On an inspection, I don't want to have to dig thru everything you have to verify you have 6 pair socks, 4. Most of my units which 18 hour deployable- 18 hrs form the call to being plane side waiting for the USAF. So if you live any other way- you'll spend several vital hours, digging thru what goes with you and what goes to the supply room. It is not about comfort, room décor, etc. It is about meeting standards and being ready to go ASAP. Since the billets are not hotels, do you really need a spare closet with clothes/shoes/hats? Are you there to serve and do your job, or make a fashion statement after work?