When did the NCO Corps lose their power? Or, did they ever lose it at all?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:45:28 -0400

Starting this I would like to address the first assumption that I am sure many have noticed. I am an officer. Yes, but I was an Enlisted prior to obtaining my commission for about 10 years. I have seen this from both sides the fence.

Now I constantly hear many claim that "they" need to give the power back to the NCO. I am not saying that this is an invalid argument by any means but for life of me I can't figure out when the Army, or your branch of service, took this power and what they did with it. Did the Officers take it? I am not sure that I have seen any officers really come down to performing NCO duties, minus the occasional misguided officer. And yes it is usually a LT.

What power was lost? When did this happen? I was an SSG at the start of 2010 when left the service for a break. But when I was an NCO I never felt like I didn't have full control of my squad at any time. The PL gave me a task and I did it. I never let him tell my squad what to do or how I should run it. There were a few times where I will admit I was lazy and wasn't meeting his expectations and he let me know that. I was failing on training enough on a squad level. So he came in and told me to train more. I didn't buck the system when he was telling me what I should be doing. He was right. Looking back on it I should have been taking better advantage of that training time.

Since then five years have lapsed. I do all that I can to enable my squad leaders. Sure some take advantage of the situations and some don't. They don't always react the same and sometimes I have to assume the role of my old PL and address the situation. Still yet I don't believe he was, nor am I, taking any power away from the NCO Corps. To take the power away you would be putting an NCO into a position to where they are no longer have any influence. Maybe officers are failing to involve them in the planning process but most of the time that isn't addressed when one uses such a general statement.

When did this occur? Maybe we are doing it without realizing it over time. But I think that the NCO Corps is the strongest it has ever been. If so, how is this affecting it?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 8:51 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:51:10 -0400

I have not notice that as a trend, now, if you talk about micromanaging, and unreasonable deadlines, then that is another issue

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jul 13 at 2015 8:52 AM

SFC Daniel Faires — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:52:01 -0400

Sir
You made a statement; They make the statement , they need to give the power back ,

If an officer ever has to give me my power back to lead troops
I'm wrong , if an NCO can't lead get out of the way , if an officer is doing an NCO's job "why"
If I feel an officer is getting in my lane I as tactfully as possible remind them of the "Forest and the Trees"

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jul 13 at 2015 9:39 AM

1LT William Clardy — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:39:37 -0400

This is one of those occasions when I disagree with you, CPT Private RallyPoint Member.

The Army's NCO corps is far from its peak, and I think that the loss in NCO authority is due to a loss of institutional memory on how to effectively wield it. As just a single (very coarse) measurement, how many times do you hear "Shut up!" used instead of "At ease, soldier!"?

While there are pockets of highly competent NCOs, I consider it a very bad sign when an old geezer like me can spend a couple of hours conversing with a pair of CSMs -- whose initial defense of a senior(ish) NCO's performance was that familiar and comfortable blanket claim that "Things aren't like when you were in" -- and walk them (grudgingly) through the details indicating a lack of effective awareness and missed opportunities for timely intervention which formed the basis of my critique of their NCO and by the end not have raised a single point which they did not accept as valid (I think it was significant that I tried to frame each point as constructively as possible and the more senior CSM did more listening and less defending than the less-senior CSM). They still didn't like me criticizing their NCO, but it seemed to be an eye-opening discussion and I know that they did address a lot of those points with the NCO in question. But I'm a junior officer who's been out of the game for decades and who never made it past buck sergeant while enlisted, while these were the guys who are supposed to be mentoring the guys who mentor the buck sergeants and corporals, so I should not have been the one opening anybody's eyes in that discussion.

The bottom line is that sergeants won't have any authority that they don't know they have or don't know how to use effectively, and that's where I see the current loss of NCO authority originating.

Response by MSG Gerry Poe made Jul 13 at 2015 9:39 AM

MSG Gerry Poe — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:39:53 -0400

I am National Guard and have been for 12 of my 22 years, the first 10 was active duty. I got my E6 on active before I decided to work on my degree in hopes to become an officer. While on active our NCOs performed their duties and accomplished daily tasks according to what the Command Team had put out in our training meetings. Just like any human we missed some check points sometimes but for the most part we accomplished our daily tasked as we delegated authority down our respective chain-of-commands. Not a lot of NCO failure other than a few hick-ups every now and then! Now that I am in the National Guard the issues I see with so called "NCO Failure" is limited time to train and develop leaders! One weekend a month and two weeks a year can limit effective NCO leadership, but it starts with the Senior Enlisted member of the organization. NCOs have to be reminded that you do not turn off duty on Monday after drill, it keeps on 24/7 365 days a year. LDRSHIP for part-time NCOs is everyday of the week, sometimes selfless service/sacrifice are the key for Guard leadership to perform effectively. Successful and effective NCOs again start from the top!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 9:53 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:53:44 -0400

I don't believe we have lost any control. There has been a drastic change where the old way of doing business is no longer tolerated or allowed. This may cause some to whine and complain about losing control. The fact of the matter is that we are a more professional force which responds better to professional tactigs than it does to "F bombs" and the like. Don't get me wrong, it has a time and place, but leaders need to learn how to roll with the times.

Response by SFC Gary Romig made Jul 13 at 2015 10:07 AM

SFC Gary Romig — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:07:39 -0400

The NCO Corp never lost its power. Just weak NCOs are afraid to assert their true power. Either that or they don't understand the power they hold. No disrespect sir but when I was a PSG, it was my PLT not the LTs, and after our first discussion it was understood and we became a strong team and a great platoon, this happened several times. But another an sure to your question, the Officer Corp are overstepping and reaching into NCO business. Sets time is just that, and officers need to stay out of it, PT is NCO business but officers are trying to take that over. Short answer is the NCO Corp is allowing their power to erode because they don't want to assert it to the officer Corp. I saw this change coming when I retired back in 09

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 10:20 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:20:53 -0400

The loss of influence, and that is what it is, has many factors. The rapid promotion due to 15 years of conflict is one. Many NCO's have been promoted due to necessity thus not having the experience that they may have obtained remaining in place for awhile longer. Especially at the senior NCO level, experience counts.

Another reason is the above mentioned conflicts. We are always training for "this war". The time and money to train well rounded soldiers is gone. We train to specific mission sets and many times we train to perform missions not within our MOS. This has often lead to a single focus, not allowing time to train on the other aspects of being a soldier that builds discipline and cohesion.

Finally, if it happens, the NCO has allowed it. I have been in units that have \tried to diminish input from the NCO's. At those times you have to stand up and push back. Politely and professionally but push back none the less. Stand up, take control and demonstrate why NCO's are the backbone.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Jul 13 at 2015 10:39 AM

SFC Stephen King — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:39:08 -0400

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/5-sources-of-power-influence
Power in itself is relative. Purpose, motivation and direction the essence of leadership is power. Is power absolute no. I will lead by example. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment. The fact is power is earned as is respect. An on the spot correction is power?

5 Sources of Power/Influence | RallyPoint

What type of leader do you see yourself as? Below are the 5 Sources of Power as defined by American sociologists John French and Bertram Raven in 1959. It is still relevant today and can be found in today's Military. Please see the definitions below.  Legitimate PowerLegitimate power is also known as positional power. It's derived from the position a person holds in an organization's hierarchy. For positional power to be exercised...

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jul 13 at 2015 11:06 AM

SGT Richard H. — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:06:30 -0400

MY gut reaction would be that if the NCO corps has lost any of the power that it was supposed to have in the first place, it would more likely be a result of said power being given away rather than taken.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jul 13 at 2015 11:06 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:06:52 -0400

Power unexercised is power lost. Through my O career I was somewhat of a minority as I'd push full responsibility and accountability down to my NCOs. Most responded well and appreciated it. The quickest way to strip power is for the officer not to support the NCO. I figured out a long time ago that people closer to the work with better eyes on it almost invariably would do a better job than me. That gave me the time to do a better job for my NCOs by being a better crap filter from above. The problem nowadays is the notion of power, its proper use, by whom, for whom isn't a skill that's purposely nurtured. I remembered I had my Master Chief with me on a advance trip "way out there". So when we showed up, the most important things to be coordinated were at Masterr's level so I sent him off to do what he does best. So what did the O-5 do? I swept out our hooch and laid in some food so we could then figure out a strategy on our next steps on a full stomach. The next day was my turn to shoot some well targeted arrows.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 13 at 2015 3:53 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:53:35 -0400

1LT Eric Rosa, There are still NCOs that take charge, more of them are always needed. When you mention NCOs, when is the last time you met an NCOIC? That symbolizes one facet of the change with NCOs. When 'NCO' schools became "Leader" schools and produced leaders rather than NCOs other perceptions follow. Softer, more gentle titles are everywhere in today's world. Isn't that the best way to work with today's generation?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 13 at 2015 4:12 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:12:00 -0400

When we started to think we are a corporation, and NCOs are relegated to paper to punish soldiers. I was keenly aware of NCO's who made recommendations and often relented for two reasons. First for having passion, second to show that they had the power to control the process.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 4:42 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:42:30 -0400

Many will share the observation of rapid promotions within the NCO corps during the course of the recent conflicts. I say it goes back farther.
One fine day back in 1999 at Ft. Stewart, a female MSG was retiring. She asked to perform an NCOPD with nothing but SGTs and SSGs in the room. She told us that we lost our power due to lack of our leadership. As an example, she pointed out SGT's Time training and how it became a check the block process, defined on the training calendar by events (task, condition, standard) and under inspection by the S3. She said this happened due to NCOs not actually taking the time to train their teams. I realized what she meant. Few leaders analyzed their team's weaknesses and used SGTs time to train and assess again.
That was then and so now where are we? What squad leaders have records of their troops Warrior Tasks or MOS tasks required to operate their equipment? That is a place to start. Barracks and vehicle inspections are not the only way to take care of your Soldiers.
That said, before you say "this is NCO business", ensure it is and take care of it.

Response by Capt Michael Halpin made Jul 13 at 2015 6:49 PM

Capt Michael Halpin — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:49:11 -0400

The answer to your question can be found in the book "This Kind of War", the classic history of the Korean War by T.R. Fehrenbach. In particular chapter 25 entitled "Proud Legions." It discusses the change in NCOs after WWII.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 13 at 2015 7:24 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 19:24:14 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member like you, I was an NCO prior to commissioning. I was a motor sergeant with responsibility for over 200 pieces of equipment and approximately 20 mechanics. Even as a buck sergeant, I accepted my responsibilities and would not tolerate the motor officer bypassing me and directing my mechanics.

In accepting those stripes I accepted the mission and the responsibilities that came with those stripes and I wasn't about to surrender any of it.

Response by Sgt Michael Schmidlkofer made Jul 13 at 2015 7:31 PM

Sgt Michael Schmidlkofer — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 19:31:19 -0400

Have they though? The modern model of the "professional military" has placed more autonomy and authority on enlisted personnel than there ever was in the past. I actually saw a video posted on the official Marine Corps Facebook account where a LtCol said there was no difference between enlisted personnel and officers besides the jobs they hold. This idea would be completely alien 100 years ago, and is still not supported by current customs and courtesies.
If anything, rapid promotions probably undermines some confidence leadership has in junior NCOs; but I don't think I even can agree with the basic premise that NCOs are losing power.

Response by SFC David Ocasio made Jul 15 at 2015 8:46 AM

SFC David Ocasio — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:46:23 -0400

Very good topic. I know that the NCO corps as well as the Officer corps have lost their power when the Command Climate has tied your hands in trying to correct and re direct soldiers in doing their job. Everyone is scared in doing whats right for fear that they may be reprimand. In my days in the military when a Drill SGT Smacked you in the side of your helmet Liner ( NO Kavelars back then) you said thank you Drill SGT for motivating me. Now? Ha its a joke that type of discipline do not exist in todays military. I believe that I would have been kicked out or arrested for the way that I disciplined my soldiers. Believe it or not after being retired for so many years I still keep in touch with many soldiers that I have lead and Soldiers that I have served with that I have mentored and they still believe that my mentorship and soldiering was the best for them. DO NOT BE AFRAID OF MAKING S SOUND DECISION EVER!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 12:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:49:37 -0400

I thank you all for a very informative discussion. I am a new SGT I have been a SQD LDR as a SPC and CPL. I am still learning a lot. Some of my NCO's were not the most forthcoming on assisting me on how to lead. I realized that in order to know how to have power you need to know how not abuse it. Right now I am working on going to Drill SGT School I am very fortunate to have found a Unit that has both great NCO's and Great Officers to learn from. But I believe the best way to have and wield power is to not abuse it and know its limits. Good day to all.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 20 at 2015 11:45 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:45:16 -0400

Could it be that new soldiers make the NCOs look like they lost some power?

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 20 at 2015 12:46 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:46:55 -0400

I don't think the NCO Corps has lost it's "power" but what we are loosing are leaders in droves to sequestration and retirement. In their places, we get the junior troops and some are ready; many aren't. And the focus is placed on those who aren't ready than either mentoring and grooming them to become the leaders we need to take the military to the next level. And any officer that see's an ineffective NCO will step into that lane to keep the mission on track. I'm going to amend my initial statement and say that if we are loosing anything, we're loosing it on our own accord; we talk about mentoring, grooming and counseling. The problem is a LOT of NCO's are so focused on themselves or choosing who stays and goes, the basics are being lost. Speaking IMO, the Army needs a stand down and reset period to backup and regroup. Reinforce the basics that have been lost to constant deployments, teach both sides of the coin (officers and NCO's) of their roles and responsibilities in war and in garrison, and then hammer it home to the troops. The power is there, but in uncertain times, things slip and this might be one of them.

Response by SSG John Erny made Aug 20 at 2015 12:53 PM

SSG John Erny — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:53:41 -0400

The new feel good Military does not like the Idea of smoking Joe or NJP when he screws up. They want paper work so they can just show some one the door when the pile gets to big. A good smoke session and extra duty that includes hard dirty work A.K.A the shit details get a point across to the offender and those who witness it. NCO's can not do this to the extent that they could in the 80's and 90's. Some one might get butt hurt or offended.

I once had 3 bone heads empty a huge mud puddle with buckets. They hated every minute of it and did not get to bed until 23:00. They were a sad sack after I was finished with them. Every once else knew that the chain of command was behind me and not to screw up like the 3 idiots emptying the puddle.

In the 82nd you knew some one pissed of the CSM if they were mowing grass on saturday with a full Ruck and KPOT. By the time they got all the way to the brigade parade field they were smoked and pissed off, but no one else wanted to be that guy.

When troops fear what an NCO can do if they mess up then the NCO has real power. When the good troops fall in with the NCO's and help enforce the standard you have a strong unit. The E-4 mafia will keep the minor crap under control so that the bird on the sham shield does not get its feathers ruffled.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 8:47 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:47:51 -0400

The NCO Corps has never really lost it's power. In good units the officers make maximum use of the skills, knowledge and experience of their NCOs and let them do all the paddling below the water line. And those units and their NCOs are like Superman. However, I saw instances in units where the NCOs would use the power that regulations and experience gave them only to be marginalized or outright blown off by the officer corps. This in turn created a "why should I even keep trying to do my job when [insert officer here] is just going to order folks to do the opposite; bitch me out for doing my job; or ignore what is the right course of action." At that point you have a broken NCO, especially when the NCO Support Channel above them has been broken by the officers who have beaten the "We are the officers and your job is to do the work, be seen and not heard" mentality into them. I saw this a few times in my career and once witnessed an outside senior officer during an inspection slam the officers in the unit they were inspecting for micromanaging the unit NCOs in attempt to pad their OERs. But by that time it was too late as the affected NCOs in question had already dropped their retirement packets.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Oct 22 at 2017 9:15 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 09:15:19 -0400

To start off with, I’m AF (HEY, don’t laugh![jus’ kidding,]). A former SSG, Cook/Baker
Supervisor. I was given some leeway to work with the cooks assigned me after I came back after the TDRL. While on it I went to s comm Col and got my Chef paper and get into some good teaching for those Airmen and fellow NCOs that are willing to listen. I’ve guided some I’ve seen that have the knack for putting that 125%! Into what they do to apply to a community college nearby to work toward getting their Chef degree. There are a few that are just in the AF to do their 4 and move on.. all they want to do is ‘half-bake’ it and get it on the line so they can get in a quick drag on a cancer stick..
I was trying to teach them in to be a good professional and do the job right the 1st time. There be a few that come along repeatedly and rag; ‘you still playing with that?’ My cooks got kudos for doing their job like a pro.. others didn’t get them and ragged about it.. and they wondered why.. what I liked was not being micro-maanaged or micro-managing my Airmen because they were trusted to do their job in a professional manner. Again the other few wondered why they were being micro-maanaged. .. hmm..

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Oct 23 at 2017 6:39 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Mon, 23 Oct 2017 18:39:30 -0400

If you really want to get into it, NCOs don't have power. They have authority. The power lies with the officers and the NCOs have the authority to enforce the policies and orders of their superior commissioned officers. The problem lies with the disconnect between the officers and the NCOs. If the NCOs do not have the backing of their officers then there is little that they can really do. And if they are unsure of what the policy or directive is in a certain area then they will fail to be able to enforce it. Failure of any level in the military hierarchy begins at the top and goes down. Whether that means that there is a simple miscommunication or an entire disconnect between levels, look to where there is a failure and examine the levels that should have been involved in the decision making, planning, or carrying out of a particular task. Identify the issue and work to fix it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2018 7:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Mar 2018 07:48:52 -0500

The non-commissioned officer did not lose power. Look in the Uniformed Code of Military Justice and you will find that our power is still as great as it has ever been. It isn't officer's messing with the natural order of things - sure you have those random few officers who don't know their place, and then those random few NCOs who need officers to step in because they cannot get results otherwise.
This happened all the time, but it wasn't something that changed how the entire military foundation worked. The problem you are seeing is a shift in discipline. In the days where corrective training could come in the form of physical exercise, it naturally empowered NCOs, and it also disciplined Soldiers. Today, if you visit an Advanced Initial Training post, you will find that corrective training comes in the form of a Developmental Counseling, which poses no threat to a rosy cheeked millennial coming right out of high school. Without fear of their leaders while going through training, they will develop no discipline.

Let's back-track through time from today. Today we have this problem that we can see but cannot figure out why it exists. Over the last decade, these undisciplined kids were slowly making it through the ranks until they became Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, even Sergeants First Class. They aren't just undisciplined, they know nothing. They didn't make Sergeant or Staff Sergeant or above because they should have been an NCO, they made it because they showed just enough potential to get by. So now you have a bunch of these NCOs recommending who ever THEY deem fit to become an NCO. Like an infestation. These NCOs also end up becoming AIT instructors, who see no problem with how AIT is - the lack of discipline. So here we are, a snake eating it's own tail.

Power isn't lost, it's lack of knowledge to use it. And it has gone on so long now, that there's almost nobody left that can teach others how to use that power. Did you know the maximum punishment for disobeying a direct order is 1 year imprisonment? That still exists. It hasn't changed. The regulations haven't changed. The people have. All NCOs still have the authority to give lawful and moral orders.

Just in 2012, I had a Soldier straight out of AIT show up to my unit. I was his platoon sergeant. One day, the Soldier did something I didn't like and I told him to do push ups. The response I got was "Sergeant you can't make me do push ups unless you do them with me." What? So don't expect discipline to come with your GIs. Expect to have to mold them as if they never got any training what-so-ever.

This bit does not mean that developmental counseling is useless. Actually, to the contrary, it is one of the best tools you have. But don't use it as a crutch for on the spot corrections. You can counsel them still, but use something they don't like, what they don't expect, something that hurts. Developmental counseling is something you should be using to develop them in their career. "You have been recommended for the promotion board due to <reasons>. Prepare for the board with your first line supervisor covering these subjects. Uniform. Awards. Unit History. Etc." Or "You are now in your primary zone and I am not recommending you for the board due to these reasons. Once you have fixed <subjects to fix> we will complete the Assessment." Or "You have not been progressing and do not meet the specifications to become an NCO, I am recommending you for chapter from the military. See the Assessments of each developmental counseling enclosed." Developmental Counseling isn't corrective training, it's just a collective of information on corrective training and development. I never see NCOs conducting corrective training anymore. Not CT that really means anything anyways.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 3 at 2018 11:00 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 03 Mar 2018 11:00:14 -0500

The only away for NCO's to lose power is be letting Officers usurp it. If the O's are allowed to micro manage and interfere into NCO's work, then NCO's lose. If you have bad NCO's get rid of them, don't retard everyone because of one.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 3 at 2018 8:37 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sat, 03 Mar 2018 20:37:33 -0500

IMHO the enlisted side started losing respect and authority when they went to automatic promotions. I had to earn E-4 (SPC), a few months later it was approved to be automatic. It was joke, people lost any respect for E-4's. No one followed any thing they said as they were flunkies who waited around to get it, instead of going to the boards, working their SDT's, studying. No it is too easy and that started the downward spiral. I would get rid of the automatics, make every soldier E-4 and above go to boards. Not just repeating a bunch of useless BS, but throwing a bucket of weapons parts in front of them and making them reassemble the in devices. Giving them a -10 with a fracked up vehicle and make them PMCS it and see what they knew. Have them lead troops, write a counseling statement, come up with corrective training. Not this I was first on the list so I get the promotion crap the NG is using now.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 5 at 2018 12:10 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Mon, 05 Mar 2018 00:10:47 -0500

If by power you mean having the right to abuse soldiers with impunity you might be right. On the other hand, NCO are expected to be leaders where there is mutual respect between the leaders and the lead. It seems to me that many NCOs are more powerful than most officers. As officers have a multitude of administrative responsibilities they have to allow NCOs to run the day to day operations of a unit - particularly at the company and platoon levels. CSMs are, effectively, extentions of their unit commanders as they have the commanders authority to act on his behalf and that translates to a lot of power.

I see the division of labor as this - officers decide what needs to be done, NCOs figure out how to do it and the troops do it under the supervision of NCOs.

Response by PO2 Kern Lindsay made Jun 30 at 2019 8:35 AM

PO2 Kern Lindsay — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 08:35:27 -0400

Back in then 60's, the retention rate in the Navy was less than 5%. Now it is over 50% (I think) and I don't think I ever seen an enlisted man over an E-8. You now have more "lifers" which means there are more petty officers, almost making them redundant.

Response by LTC Dan McDonald made Sep 15 at 2019 10:05 PM

LTC Dan McDonald — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:05:41 -0400

I joined the Army in 1973 and retired in 2012. Eight years enlisted and twenty eight years commissioned. This question is as old as the Roman Legions. NCO's have the same amount of "power" that they have always had. Nothing has changed. Officers have command authority and responsibility. NCO's have direct supervisory authority and responsibility. The roles of both are clearly defined. Individual training proficiency - NCO. Collective training proficiency - Officer. Day to day operations within the unit structure - NCO. Long term vision and mission planning - Officer. The list go's on if we want to take it that far. Commissioned Officers and Non-Commissioned officer relay on each other to make a unit combat ready, take care of soldiers and solve day to day problems. The problems arise from individual perceptions, personality clashes and unintended consequences of not understanding how the system works. An efficient, combat ready unit usually has an Officer and Noncommissioned officer corp that understand their roles and responsibilities.

Response by SGT John Ball made Mar 21 at 2022 5:50 PM

SGT John Ball — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:50:16 -0400

I remember back in Basic on the dummy grenade practice range, a Private had to hit the dirt as soon as he threw it. My knuckleheaded self didn't do that and was smacked hard in the back of my helmet by my drill. I never made that mistake again and had a headache for a week. Sadly, that Drill would have been up on charges in this day and age. NCO'S didn't screw around in those days and meant what they said. Nothing wrong with good old fashioned discipline.