What would you suggest, is the best way to combat toxic leadership, when the majority of the COC up to the local IG office is corrupt?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:16:45 -0400

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2016 9:20 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:20:26 -0400

Can you elaborate at all? I don't have enough information to offer any sound advice.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jul 19 at 2016 9:27 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:27:39 -0400

Corrupt is in the eye of the beholder. If enough eyes, then it'd stick out in the Command Climate Survey. At least on the Navy side I've seen it get the attention of the 3000 mile screwdriver.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Jul 19 at 2016 9:55 AM

MSgt John McGowan — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:55:02 -0400

SSG Tough one. Anyway you go this will follow you. Toxic leadership is something I know little about for I saw very little during my career from 1956 to 1976. I would like to know the reason for the toxic leadership now. I know the norms have changed but it shouldn't have effeced the miltary as much as I understand it has.

Response by SFC Richard Giles made Jul 19 at 2016 10:44 AM

SFC Richard Giles — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:44:10 -0400

Need more examples SSG. But from just this question alone my response would be don't be part of the problem. Need more details.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jul 19 at 2016 11:02 AM

MSgt James Mullis — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:02:33 -0400

Your question is a little muddled because Toxic Leadership and outright Corruption (which is a crime) rarely go hand in hand. It's also hard to give advice when you don't have any details, so I'll give you some general advice.

First, you better know what you want and be honest with yourself. If you want a continued career in the Army, then the best advice may be to just keep your head down, do what you're told, to the best of your abilities, while putting in for a change of station, so you can get out of there ASAP.

If you are looking for "Justice", start by analyzing the situation as calmly and clearly as possible. There are always two sides to every situation. Ask yourself are getting both sides of the story? or are emotions and friendships swaying you toward one side while ignoring the valid points of the other.

When someone makes such a broad statement as "the majority of the COC up to the local IG office is corrupt?" I tend to think its probably a vast overstatement. Corruption is hard work and most people are just too lazy for it. While one or two people can be corrupt its just not likely that an entire Chain of Command is. However, such things as Institutional momentum, strict compliance with regulation, or even the privileges that come with greater rank can easily be confused with corruption.

All that said, if a crime is being committed tell the cops and let them sort it out. If you are actually just having a disagreement with management styles or management decisions...guess what, all you can do is deal with it, take care of your troops and try to be a better leader by not making the same mistakes you are seeing now.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2016 12:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:27:01 -0400

This is hard to answer specifically without knowing what the CoC is doing, but for you as an individual my guidance would be to do your duties to the utmost of your ability and remain professional at all times. Truly toxic leaders tend to hammer the nails that stick out. Be the nail that does not stick out.
In time, they or you will move on and life will resume normalcy.

If you can provide more information, I can be more specific on courses of action.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 19 at 2016 1:46 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:46:28 -0400

I dont know you.
You provided now details to make a responsible and pointed response.

So I'll just leave a thought and observation I have seen accurate more times than not.
"When all those around you are wrong.. stupid...ignorant.....perhaps it's time to step back and make sure it's really them that has the issue."

If you want to provide some specifics, examples, actions and responses.. Perhaps more insight of suggestions can be provided.

In more than 28 years of active duty service, from Private to Sergeant Major, riflemen to G3 SGM, duty stations in the US, europe, teaching at a collage in OR, I never once observed anything approaching " toxic leadership, when the majority of the COC up to the local IG office is corrupt"

So it's impossible for me to speak from that perspective and difficult to take at face value such a condition exists. .

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Jul 19 at 2016 2:21 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 14:21:47 -0400

I would highly suspect that your entire COC is NOT corrupt. I would have a fire side chat with the CSM, or another SgtMaj to see what they can offer in the way of "On the scene" advice. Beware: You need to have your ducks in a row or you will get crushed. There are quite a few of us old retired war dogs you can message for advice and assistance. BE CAREFUL! Don't kill your career for something that is not worth the effort. Semper Fi.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2016 3:05 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:05:00 -0400

Is what is happening criminal in nature?

Response by MSG Steven Heath made Jul 19 at 2016 3:21 PM

MSG Steven Heath — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:21:26 -0400

Toxic Leadership or Poor Leadership and a breakdown of discipline? Request a Command Climate Survey to be conducted on your unit by the Inspector Generals Office. Those results should go to the next command level for action. If there is a Toxic Leadership issue it will be highlighted for action by the appropriate command level. Good luck!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 19 at 2016 3:44 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:44:32 -0400

These are pretty staunch accusations (corrupt). If it is as bad as you believe it to be you should consider the Department of the Army IG.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jul 20 at 2016 9:21 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:21:54 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I sometimes think the reason toxic 'leaders' can rise to higher ranks, both enlisted and officer, is because people are afraid to expose them for fear of retaliation. This is a very real fear in any large organization, esp the armed forces where more than likely you will encounter the same person again in some capacity and he/she will make things very hard on you. To the point of driving y ou out. One saving grace in this day and age are the anonymous communication means available. A person should somehow avail themselves of whatever anonymous means he/she can to document and put the person on report by name. These reports have to be followed up on by someone, to cover themselves if nothing more, and will eventually catch up with the offending person.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2016 10:30 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:30:00 -0400

I would recommend taking a step back and ask yourself is the leadership really toxic or are my expectations unrealistic? A lot (not all) Soldiers that complain about toxic leadership are usually because the Soldier is sub standard and just whining because they don't get there way. Its kind of hard to believe that an entire chain from Company all the way to IG can be so corrupt. But if this is indeed true then its in the Soldier's best interest to just keep there head down and just do their job. Do their time and then move on to another command. Without hard evidence there isn't anything you can do. If it becomes a real threat to Soldiers health and welfare then you can possible initiate a Congressional complaint. But the Soldier had better be sure he is right before it gets to that level because by bypassing the command it will create a whirl wind that they'd better be prepared for.

Response by SP5 Joel McDargh made Jul 21 at 2016 3:55 PM

SP5 Joel McDargh — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:55:10 -0400

There is no proper way other than to document, document, document, and use the open door policy of the post commander when being hindered by the chain of command. I went through this back in 1974 and found myself doing pretrial confinement in the stockade on trumped up charges. Long story short, I was transferred from one coast to the opposite coast after my congressman was called in. Orders were printed stating: EM was to depart on or about such a date. EM was to report to new duty station on...N/A. Let's just say that all broke loose, and the best way to deal with a troublemaker (myself) was to send that individual as far away as possible. Be prepared to catch hell cause you bout to open a can of worms you will not be able to put back in. The voice of experience has spoken.