What would you do if your soldier was two hours late to work call, with a previous no show to PT formation (corrective action, UCMJ, etc.)?

2017-04-26T12:36:35-04:00

Soldier called and stated they spent the night at their girlfriends house and got lost on the train on the way back to post. This is OCONUS and the curfew is 0100 for E5 and below.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 26 at 2017 12:37 PM

2017-04-26T12:37:29-04:00

Always a case by case...but cannot be ignored. What actions were taken the previous incidents?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 12:45 PM

2017-04-26T12:45:32-04:00

Counseling with corrective action with the understanding that if this happens again, then UCMJ will be recommended to the Command Team.

When I was at FT Irwin, in my platoon anyone that was late to formation, they were given the corrective action that they and their immediate supervisor were to be at the flag pole @ 0600 for the cannon and raising of the flag. This was to take place for an entire week. If it happened again, UCMJ was given.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Apr 26 at 2017 12:48 PM

2017-04-26T12:48:18-04:00

What MSG Brad Sand said. What actions were taken for his previous No Show?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 1:58 PM

2017-04-26T13:58:26-04:00

i knew an NCO who used to solve this problem as follows: tell him he can either show up to work 1-2 hours early for the next 14 duty days and scrub the shitters or he can get paperwork, his choice. you might have to show up early too to verify he's actually there, but you could always use your time for some admin work. it'll teach him to show up on time, assuming he's otherwise a good troop. if he is a good troop, it'll be worthwhile to teach the lesson at the lowest possible level.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 2:14 PM

2017-04-26T14:14:13-04:00

If this was a Navy person and I had the authority id do a counseling chit with some EMI (Extra Military Instruction) Id have them Muster with the Color Guard in the Morning and the Evening and suspend their off post privileges for two weekends plus the interim week (9 days). I would also have already assigned them to LEAD PT with the CFL's. While mistakes happen they were out past curfew, and they were two hours late. This would be Strike two on the late thing and if their was a third incident I would sent them to Mast. No matter what you end up doing you need to Document, Document, Document. ... Some times they just need that Ahh ha moment that this wont be tolerated and they need to get it together.

Just my two cents.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 26 at 2017 5:02 PM

2017-04-26T17:02:56-04:00

Sergeant, I would take away Snuffy's pass privilege, give them a counseling statement with the corrective action of showing up every 15 minutes in a different uniform. I.e. ACU first go round, Winter PT uniform, Class B uniform, then the field uniform with body armor, and so on. Be creative, we have numerous uniforms to go through. All of this is corrective training, not punishment. Keep it going to about 23:45 on night when you have staff duty/CQ. I think Snuffy will get the message.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 8:16 AM

2017-04-27T08:16:58-04:00

If the Soldier already had a previous no show then he/she should already be conducting corrective training. How far apart were the infractions? If they were back to back and you did your DA 4586 with corrective training and it was not assessed yet due to time than I would recommend UCMJ at the company level. What was the Soldiers corrective training for the previous no show? These are all questions that I would need to assist.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 8:28 AM

2017-04-27T08:28:53-04:00

I find this excuse not very compelling. More likely he wanted to get just one more session in.
Now I don't get in SPC Tentpeg's ass for having a social life.
However, this is affecting work performance and that is a no go.
I think SPC Tentpeg just found his social life greatly constricted, to the tune of 14 days restriction.
Depending on how that goes and his willingness to get his head right, more may ensue.
The goal should be to correct the behavior, not necessarily punish the Soldier.
Punishment comes when he is so foolish as to back talk or worse, break restriction. Then I will regulate.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 8:10 PM

2017-04-27T20:10:10-04:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member death penalty is a bit too hard, but definitely making their life a living hell for a bit definitely is in the ballpark. Take away weekend passes and any liberties. HOWEVER, before you do anything counsel them on paper so you have a paper trail so if they mess up again they lose a rank (at CDR's discretion of course) and maybe start taking pay as well to spend a message.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2017 8:03 PM

2017-05-12T20:03:02-04:00

With dogs I teach not to give the dog enough freedom to make mistakes until they have learned and proven themselves. That way we do not end up with a dog getting in trouble for something they do not understand. If the dog is given freedom and then fails, we remove that freedom and start over with training at a level they do understand.

So, I would say that this soldier has proven that he cannot be where he belongs at a specified time. So, he needs some training in being there on time. You can only train that if he is always available to you. If he can't leave the post, he can't very well get lost on a train.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 23 at 2018 8:12 PM

2018-08-23T20:12:20-04:00

Can you have him attached to guard details, or other shitty duties? its his second strike so obviously he's a shitbird, whatever shitty duty or detail you can stick him on works. I'd also confine him to base if that's legal these days. Back in the day you'd be at the mercy of the 1st Sgt, and as an old beat up Nam Vet he wasn't sympathetic to stupidity.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Mar 2 at 2019 11:22 AM

2019-03-02T11:22:41-05:00

Far too many people underestimate the power of a summarized ART 15. A company commander can snatch a knot in a soldier’s arse pretty fast and it not have a lasting effect on the career of the soldier. If the turd cannot learn from corrective training and you have done your paperwork the next step would be to recommend a summarized art 15

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Mar 2 at 2019 11:27 AM

2019-03-02T11:27:25-05:00

When I was in Germany, my 1SG had two shiny galvanize trash cans in front of the unit. One was called Moti and the other Vation. If someone was late, they had a choice summarized ART 15 or for each 5 minutes late 15 minutes shining the cans for the next 5 days. This was for the first two offenses only. Third offense was no choice, ART 15. They were the shiniest cans I have ever seen.

Response by SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott made Mar 2 at 2019 11:27 AM

2019-03-02T11:27:53-05:00

#1 he broke curfew, #2 he was late for formation and evidently not the first time! Was he counseled for missing the PT formation? If so then it's time for corrective action. Restriction to post would be the first thing I do and then some instructions on what his responsibilities are regarding following the rules and getting to all formations on time! Back in my day he would have been assigned extra duty which would have been issued by the First Sergeant and if he persisted in his wayward actions, an Article 15 would be done and possible discharge from the military.

Response by SGT Darin Jenkins made Mar 2 at 2019 5:40 PM

2019-03-02T17:40:13-05:00

Just UCMJ him out of the service.

Response by SGT Darin Jenkins made Mar 2 at 2019 5:41 PM

2019-03-02T17:41:56-05:00

When you have soldiers that have no reguard, respect and don't even put forth any effort the only course is to UCMJ them out of the service.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Mar 3 at 2019 9:23 AM

2019-03-03T09:23:44-05:00

Lol,you would have got office hours, shit duty out the ass, probably restrictions. Do it twice you’d lose rank and pay, after that you’d be processed out and stuck with shitty discharge of some type.