What would you do if you had a soldier with a permanent profile (for running) and you saw this soldier running for exercise?

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:53:41 -0500

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jan 18 at 2018 6:59 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:59:00 -0500

First of all break out the camera, video tape if possible or get witnesses. Next make sure profile eliminates ALL running and not states "running at your own pace". Next counseling statement and inform your PS of the situation.
Seems to me if the soldier needs exercise, then I bet you can find some work that will help exercise this soldier and burn up some energy.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 18 at 2018 7:01 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:01:21 -0500

Having said that, due to the stigma associated with profiles, there are a lot of people who are trying their best to overcome their limitations and injuries and get off their profiles. Demonizing people who are trying to improve themselves sets a bad precedent. You're going to end up with people riding profiles in perpetuity, stagnating.

Response by SFC George Smith made Jan 18 at 2018 7:02 PM

SFC George Smith — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:02:54 -0500

get Photos/Videos and Nail him/her to the 1st SGT's wall might want to Go to the BN Surgeon's Office

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 7:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:18:45 -0500

Take it case by case. I tore my rotator cuff at an army school and was already seeing chiropractor for back injuries once a week. Forced to have a profile. Normally I'm am a 300 pt score type guy, lead from the front !! My profile was basically a dead man profile. But, once I felt strong enough I started to work my self back up to par, (286 on APFT first test after profile lifted.) If I had someone report me without talking to me I'd be pissed! If an NCO can't speak to the SM AND HANDLE AT THE LOWEST LEVEL... Take off your stripes. If the SM is I dirt bag and shaming handle accordingly. But, either way do your due diligence and ask yourself what you did to help, guide, or mentor before you throw them under the bus. Golden rule still applies, how would you want to be treated if it were you in their shoes. Trust me, I'm a hard ass... 210 is the apft standard for my joes, 220 for NCOs 270 for myself, but pissed if not a 290-300.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jan 18 at 2018 7:45 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:45:30 -0500

You document it and have them recommended for UCMJ action for malingering. Simple as that. However, it may be difficult to go all the way through with it unless you are able to pull out a camera and get a video of them.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 7:55 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:55:06 -0500

Start by asking what's up and go from there. Might be good to have a witness or video capture to the running before you do, or you may get into a debate or denial. Once you know more, get with the appropriate folks to resolve it. Document in your personal notes with names, dates, times, locations etc. If it does get "official" you'll have a good start to build from. It may just be someone trying to improve themselves within the limits of profile. Nothing wrong with that.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 18 at 2018 7:56 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:56:50 -0500

Investigate.
Not all profiles or soldiers are created equally. The profile might say no formation running, or run at own pace, or alternate APFT event (for whatever reason). Without finding out the particulars, we're operating blind. It "might" be malingering. It might also be something completely benign and part of the soldier-doctor's longterm recovery plan.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Jan 18 at 2018 8:19 PM

LTC Donell Kelly — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 20:19:47 -0500

I'd refer him to the local Medcen/DOD hospital with a request for an appropriate physician to evaluate the soldier. I'd also ask for his/her prior medical records/civilian medical records to determine why the soldier got a permanent profile in the first place.
Then, with the medical experts opinion, based on clinical evaluations & original conditions for permanent profile, would either have the permanent profile amended &/or discontinued.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 8:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 20:31:07 -0500

You have to have the facts first. Find out why he or she is running. Talk to them. As NCO's we shouldn't be all about punishment, but bettering our soldiers. Think about it. You don't know all the circumstances.

First collect the information you need to make a sound judgment, then make a call.

Response by SSG Keith Amacher made Jan 18 at 2018 9:00 PM

SSG Keith Amacher — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:00:27 -0500

Implied my soldier, I would ask myself why I did not know the situation and would confront in private to ask about this. If the soldier was really trying to get better and discard the profile, well that is another thing, but If I see one side of trying to gold brick like the Sick Call heroes I would have a conversation about possible Article 15 and dereliction of duty...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 9:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:11:04 -0500

I believe that the best first step would be to talk to the SM. If you know for sure that his profile eliminates all running, not just limited to own pace/distance or no organized running type profiles, I would then counsel the SM that you intend to push this farther up the chain for possible disciplinary actions. As always, be if you have any questions as to the legality of it you can speak to JAG for advice. I believe someone stated however, do not jump to conclusions. If there is one lesson I have had to teach myself it is to slow my initial thought to yell at the SM and ensure that I know all the facts first. Maybe the SM is trying to see if they can run so they can get rid of that permanent profile. If they are not, hold their feet to the fire.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 9:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:12:04 -0500

Nothing. Obviously the soldier is trying to get a good workout in. Usually profiles are run at own pace and distance. Unless the profile specifically states no running, leave the soldier alone. Also, as someone who ran with a P2 profile, some days you feel better than others. I may run today with no problem and next week my whole left leg could swell up for simply kicking a few lieutenants in the chest.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Jan 18 at 2018 9:27 PM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:27:46 -0500

Some profiles indicate that some individuals can only run at their own pace, which exempts them from running in formation.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 19 at 2018 7:37 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 19:37:06 -0500

Read the profile before passing judgment. Many of them will state something to the effect "may run up to one mile."

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2018 8:24 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 20:24:39 -0500

In my brief experience as an NCO, I had this twice. Both times, I simply approached the soldier and asked them about the occurrence. If you have the right relationship with your soldiers, I believe you will be able to identify where there is a problem or where it just looks bad. I try to assume the best, but prepare for the worst. As others on here have so aptly said before me, there's always sides to the situation that we don't know until we ask. Use your discretion, but also try to be there to coach and mentor your soldiers.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 20 at 2018 9:51 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:51:14 -0500

I would ask him what was going on. Was he running a marathon or doing a ten miler? That might be a problem. If he said he was testing out his ability under the care of his PCM I don't see a problem with it.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2018 6:33 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 18:33:01 -0400

THE soldiers profile will say or run at own pace or distance or walk at own pace and distance
or simply walk , bike , swim as alternate events in pt and pt test

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 12:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 12:51:44 -0500

Everyone wants to nail the guy to the wall when you all know damn well a “no running” profile is pretty rare and they almost always say “soldier may run at own pace and distance”

Video camera surveillance? Really?