What UCMJ articles give the commander the right and authority to take an individual's POV and not have to pay car note or insurance?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 18:48:39 -0400

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 28 at 2021 7:24 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:24:14 -0400

What? You gotta give some more details here.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Aug 28 at 2021 7:38 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:38:57 -0400

well - under certain circumstances, say a DUI on post in which you lost your driving privileges, and you were caught driving your vehicle, and you live in the barracks, He can impound your vehicle for the duration of the suspension, or until you complete your chapter. The vehicle is still yours, and the responsibility for payments, insurance and what not, are still yours. He can also order you to surrender your keys to the vehicle, add them to the key control roster, and a host of other things. A Commander would not impose such a thing unless they had a very good reason to do so. Rub some salve on your hurt feelings troop, I would bet dollars to donuts you earned this punishment.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Aug 28 at 2021 8:05 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:05:54 -0400

This question is pretty vague. Did some commander just steal someone's car? Why would they have to pay for the car note or insurance if they had legally had it impounded, confiscated, etc?

My suggestion is for any kind of legal clarity to go talk to JAG - they'll be more likely to give you an accurate, legal answer than an Internet forum.

The only reason I could think that a commander would confiscate someone's car is that the soldier was doing something illegal with or in it.

Also there are military regulations that allow commanders to do things.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2021 8:31 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:31:07 -0400

Wow there is a lot going on here. So I am guessing you mean you just got out of the 5th floor inpatient pysch ward on a 72 hour hold and you tested positive for illegal substances on your latest urinalysis.

If you are having multiple mini strokes are you even allowed to operate a motor vehicle not withstanding the popping hot on urinalysis? What do the army medical doctors say for your profile? If it is a safety issue and the doctors say you cannot operate a motor vehicle or as part of your punishment for popping hot on a urinalysis you cannot operate a vehicle on post or lost your driving privileges on post then yes a commander can take your keys, lock them up in the key locker making you sign in and out for a vehicle that you own and your vehicle can be impounded. You still own it meaning you are still required to pay for insurance and a car note. This might be for your own safety and to prevent you from harming yourself or someone else or further damaging your military career.

Also with the strokes are you currently anywhere in a Med board process?

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 28 at 2021 8:57 PM

SSG Brian G. — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:57:03 -0400

Ok, lets dispel some BS that has obviously crept into this. Some barracks lawyer crap maybe.

First? A commander cannot "take" a persons POV. No commander, no officer of any rank, any command, anywhere in the US armed forces can do that. Period. Now. What they can do is make it so that the person cannot drive on post by making a recommendation that the post commander revoke the members driving privileges but that has to come with a solid reason behind it. Driving is a privilege, not a right. A car is something the SM chose to take on, along with the subsequent expenses. The commander can make orders which basically state that the SM cannot drive their POV on post. The commander can impound a vehicle, but he cannot just take it.

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Aug 28 at 2021 10:43 PM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:43:18 -0400

Go to base legal. Have your NCO go with you if you're ok with that (assuming you have a good one who genuinely wishes to help you out). This is their knowledge base.

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Aug 28 at 2021 10:49 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:49:07 -0400

No... The commander cannot seize personal property

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Aug 28 at 2021 10:57 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:57:52 -0400

You can file an ucmj article 139 complaint stating the commander damaged the vehicle.. And report the vehicle stolen to the civilian police..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2021 1:22 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 01:22:35 -0400

Reading your responses, your Commander didn't take your car, he took your keys. Your Commander does have the ability to suspend your driving privileges and restrict you to post if he feels it's needed. But, don't take my word for it, go to IG. Don't go to JAG they won't really help you. IG will show you the regulation, and if your Commander isn't following it, they contact the Commanders to fix it

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 30 at 2021 2:48 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:48:21 -0400

A commander has the authority to restrict a service member from operating a vehicle on base, for a number of reasons. They can enforce any and all regulations relevent to an installation's regulations such as driving privileges. If you live off base, they can ORDER you to remove your vehicle, or they can have it towed to an installation's Impound Lot (via the Military or DOD Police) for up to the duration of your assignment - until you PCS or ETS.
You wuold STILl be responsible to make your car payments and maintain insurance. Most insurance companies will reduce the cost IF the vehicle is "laid-up" as in stored while on deployment, extended TDY and they MIGHT do so if your vehicle is in a military installation's iimpound lot.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Aug 30 at 2021 5:58 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 17:58:48 -0400

You gotta be in deep poop to have that done. I was in the 82nd for three years, and then well, I was at Ft. Bragg, the home of the rowdy sons of America, and I never had to take away a soldiers driving privileges. Well, it was automatic for a DUI (DWI in some states), so I didn't have to do it.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 31 at 2021 9:13 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:13:09 -0400

"What UCMJ articles give the commander the right and authority to take an individual's POV"
None.
However, give you a lawful order not to drive it because say, you don't have a valid license, registration, or insurance, absolutely and not uncommon at all.
Or if your on-post driving privileges are suspended, but you maintain a valid license, registration, and insurance.......and the vehicle was on post...playing hardball....a commander could order you not to drive it..though you could have a friend drive it off the post for you or, have it towed off post.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Aug 31 at 2021 2:31 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:31:30 -0400

So after your last major screw-up your commander ordered you not to drive your car and you feel that is taking the car away from you. Poor baby. Maybe you shouldn't have screwed-up quite so royally....

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Aug 31 at 2021 4:10 PM

1SG Jack Crutcher — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:10:30 -0400

This would be a question I would ask JAG however a soldier cannot drive his car if the commander has reasons to put him on restriction

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 31 at 2021 5:08 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:08:57 -0400

In what world does ones Commander even know that you exist ? It’s your car hence the POV, it’s theft I’d suppose. You could have your base driving privileges revoked, but it’s still private property. If that's the case then you park it.

Response by SFC Garry Kolberg made Aug 31 at 2021 5:15 PM

SFC Garry Kolberg — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:15:19 -0400

To be honest, you didn't give any information as to why this was done and you expect someone to give the answer you want. If you believe it was done illegally then contact JAG and let them explain if it was legal or not. In the military, you will get a ton of reasons but there is only one legal reason that works. Again, provide the reason why so some one can actually attempt to make sense and give you advice if you don't want JAG to.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Sep 7 at 2021 12:03 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 07 Sep 2021 00:03:36 -0400

Driving a car on the base is not a right. If you did something stupid involving a POV, then yeah, he can restrict your driving privilege. Oh, and bitching about it will NOT help or make it better, just ride the situation out.
Remember the old saying: "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2021 4:27 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:27:17 -0400

A commander may impound or deny any member of the department of defense the right to operate a motor vehicle when the commander has reason to believe the service member is a risk to himself or public safety. Commanders may deny any service member the right to operate any motor vehicle on or off installation in the interest of public safety or when a service member has accumulated 12 points under AR 190-5 or DoDi 6055.4. See McDaniels v. United States for a Supreme Court ruling upholding a commanders authority to do so.

Response by SSG Terry Bruns made Sep 25 at 2021 5:58 PM

SSG Terry Bruns — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 17:58:45 -0400

When I was in the Marine Corps as an MP. We had 2 Marines, with new trucks come on post and shoot some alligators. Since the alligators were considered government property and using personal weapons. The vehicles were confiscated by the military.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2021 8:08 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Oct 2021 20:08:13 -0400

Go to the IG

Response by COL Thomas McGrath made Oct 31 at 2021 7:52 AM

COL Thomas McGrath — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 07:52:09 -0400

A good commander will just do it to protect his troops. If your confused ask your local JAG.

Response by SGT Ron Cummings made Oct 31 at 2021 6:02 PM

SGT Ron Cummings — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 18:02:00 -0400

Your Command can restrict your driving privileges on post and order you to remove your pov or give you an option to store it in some cases.

Response by FN Bryan Kimble made Nov 9 at 2021 9:09 AM

FN Bryan Kimble — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:09:41 -0500

This question makes no sense on the part about the car note and insurance pay. To learn what UCMJ gives a commander the right to take your vehicle call JAG and enquire your question. Even if your commander takes your POV for whatever reason; you, as the owner of the vehicle still have to pay all cost associated with the vehicle

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 17 at 2021 12:35 PM

1SG James Kelly — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 12:35:29 -0500

What happened?

Response by Sgt Earl Neconie made Nov 26 at 2021 5:37 PM

Sgt Earl Neconie — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 17:37:39 -0500

Nuthin’s changed…you are at the hands of the CO with the UCMJ in his/her back pocket!

Response by LCpl Richard Lally made Dec 9 at 2021 11:18 AM

LCpl Richard Lally — Thu, 09 Dec 2021 11:18:46 -0500

Not unless he charged you wit a crime or infraction that warrants forfeiture of the vehicle because it was used to commit said crime or infraction and I don't think he will want to get involved in that paperwork

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Dec 13 at 2021 4:46 PM

SFC John Fourquet — Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:46:49 -0500

You need to explain the entire situation. The idea that a commander took your POV w/o any reason does not make sense. Do you have a valid drivers license, do you have insurance? Were your post driving privileges suspended. There’s a lot more than you are telling us.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Dec 19 at 2021 9:04 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 09:04:33 -0500

If you committed a crime that constituted the impound of your POV by the civilian Police who pays the car note and Insurance?

Now be very honest what were the actions by you to cause a commander to Impound your POV?

Response by 1SG Danny Vorreyer made Dec 19 at 2021 12:13 PM

1SG Danny Vorreyer — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 12:13:36 -0500

If you live in the Barracks you have no option. Its on Federal land. If you live off post they can pull your driving privileges on post and you will have to park outside the gate and then walk to work. Your wife could drive you to work and drop you off. Back in the day, we had parking areas surrounded by barbed wire. You drove your car in and they shut the gate at PT. Your car stayed locked up until recall formation. On Friday the C.O. Would have us open our trunk looking for contraband. Everything once it enters the gates is under federal law.

Response by PFC Anna Walls made Dec 24 at 2021 3:53 PM

PFC Anna Walls — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 15:53:05 -0500

I remember one time, my husband and I lived in post housing, at the time, not far from the commissary, Because the commissary was so close, I didn't need to drive anywhere very often, neither did my husband since his work was only a couple blocks away. Our car was parked in our parking slot, but they towed it because it hadn't been moved in however long. I don't remember anymore. SO frustrating. So we had to go pay a fine and get it back.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Jan 5 at 2022 7:03 PM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Wed, 05 Jan 2022 19:03:50 -0500

Wow, some heated responses below. I was a legal clerk at company level for a year and did a lot of Article 15s. I didn't see anything like taking a car. I did learn about being restricted from driving on base when I was stopped for not having a face shield on my motorbike helmet. But the above question from this PFC reminds me of when I was a Division Officer on a submarine. My guys would get in trouble and then tell me their tale of woe. Except they always left out the part where they did something really stupid and ended up getting (almost) everything they deserved. Would like to hear the rest of the story here.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2022 9:41 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jan 2022 09:41:57 -0500

I think your mistaken the purpose of UCMJ. If you as a Soldier messed up then UCMJ is imposed on you it's not the source of authority that would be by regulation and by virtue of being in command. It's called positional authority. I also think you are leaving out alot to the story here. I would suggest if you want a complete and honest answer to your issue to air out your dirty laundry first. If you still beleive you where wrong, you have the option to appeal to the next higher level, however this could result in further issues for you if you in fact leave things out or embelish. Best advice I to just own it.

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Jan 6 at 2022 11:31 PM

SGT Sam Decker — Thu, 06 Jan 2022 23:31:44 -0500

You need to supply some context. Your post makes it sound like an officer somehow confiscated a a personal vehicle. I'm fairly certain that didn't actually happen. So, what's the full story?

Response by SGT Lenise Hamilton made Jan 9 at 2022 10:08 PM

SGT Lenise Hamilton — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 22:08:55 -0500

Oh Come on PFC! What on earth have you done that your not telling us about? Go figure right!
You must represent yourself and the forces in the correct manner vs. the wrong manner. Think about it, as well as the innocent by-standards. Peace!!

Response by A1C Stanley Kolakowski made Jan 12 at 2022 8:18 PM

A1C Stanley Kolakowski — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 20:18:27 -0500

If OP really, really wants a UCMJ article, there's always 92: Failure to obey a lawful order.

All Base Regulations are "lawful orders".

For POVs, there are a few regulations concerning "condition of vehicle" and a few regulations concerning "condition / history of driver".

And I'll mention this - I grew up in MA, and was used to it's "annual safety inspections".
Base regulations mandated that I keep my POV pretty much ready for MA inspection (ie, if it wouldn't be allowed in MA, it most likely wasn't allowed on base).
And this included many "modifications" along with what I'll nickname "patch job repairs".

Meanwhile, my move to "rural" IL has highlighted to me what some parts of the country "get away with" in regard to vehicle condition...

And OP, a lot of what can happen on "country roads", won't pass muster in "urban" areas / on base. "Command" can, and will, put limits on how long a vehicle "in those conditions" can be used on-base, and if not "corrected", restrict it's use on base (to impounding / "claiming" it) until such time as it is within reg.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Jan 13 at 2022 12:01 PM

CAPT Edward Schmitt — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 12:01:24 -0500

Remember driving on base/post is a privilege not a right. You can lose that privilege for infractions and the command authority can impose that privilege ban as part of their command authority.

Response by SGT(P) Jody Hall made Jan 15 at 2022 3:43 PM

SGT(P) Jody Hall — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:43:36 -0500

WOW... Now that I am looking at the original post....
James if it was you. Ask for a general discharge, go to JAG and ask for help to get out. If A SM Complains about THE POV, that is the wrong thing to say. Complain about the COC not helping you in sobriety.
Assuming you did everything they asked for your plan of care to get sober.

That commander should start chapter proceedings immediatly, then give that POV back at discharge.
I remember standing in front of the "SMAg" and the BN LTC telling them my plan to rehabilitate a soldier if they don't chapter them. 2/3 times it failed! All of the time I spent on the one and their family took away from the other 8-10 I had in my squad.
I assume that a PFC they tried to treat for the addiction and it failed. In the Airborne we did our best to retain our SMs. For some, we almost felt like a failure when we could not rehabilitate them. However, NCO's that had to deal with that understand you can only do so much.
I went through this with a PFC, I went through this with POT for a SPC. I went through it with a SGT(p)
and he recovered and took over the squad when I was medically retired and deployed into combat with them. It is up to the SM to get better. COC can only do so much to help them (and their family dependents) Military life is not for everyone.
Sadly, some people just need to go. Airborne and Essayons all...
I served 16 years. Took a demotion to move to another MOS to advance to E6 for better cut off points. I never had a substance abuse SM in aviation, only under my command that was AA or 20th Eng Abn. That does not mean it can't happen at any post. AA the joke... I hope for the 82nd.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Feb 5 at 2022 4:09 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sat, 05 Feb 2022 16:09:00 -0500

The Unit First Sergeant can impound the car if the soldier got a DUI. The soldoer still would have to pay the car note and insurance.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Feb 6 at 2022 7:30 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 07:30:19 -0500

What if there is no DUI involved and there is no suspicion of drug or alcohol abuse SSG Robert Perrotto, can a Commander still confiscate a POV on the grounds of presumed insanity, is there such a rule, regulation or law? In such instances, who pays the payments on the POV, given no other person, but the Owner, is insured to operate the POV?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2022 10:10 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 22:10:31 -0500

No commander has any authority over the possession of a pov or person property in general. If there is UCMJ action done then it would the be courts & mps.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Feb 7 at 2022 1:32 AM

SGT Robert Martin — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 01:32:18 -0500

None best a co can do is recommend the sm not be permitted to drive on post. In 23 years I've never seen one try. Normally they lose that privilege for dui or repeated tickets. The Post CO gets sick of seeing the same name on the blotter or the Mps send a recommendation up and bang zoom your done. Your vehicle can get impounded, but no commander can take your personal property and keep it as long as it was legal to own to begin with.

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Feb 9 at 2022 9:39 AM

Sgt Ken Prescott — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 09:39:56 -0500

From what it looks like to me...you pissed hot, and your CoC revoked your driving privileges until you successfully completed rehab.

They're trying really hard to not throw you out with an OTH or worse.

Maybe you need to focus on rehab instead of your car.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2022 1:40 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 13:40:11 -0500

I'm pretty confused what you mean by "take". The commander cannot go 'man PFC that's a nice mustang you got there. I'm going to just take that for myself and you can keep making the 32% APR payments"

But a Commander can say "PFC you were caught driving while under the influence and as such have lost the privilege of driving on base."

The Commander can also go "PFC you were caught driving on base after you lost that privilege. As such base security has impounded your vehicle until your suspension is lifted."

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Mar 10 at 2022 4:51 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Thu, 10 Mar 2022 16:51:11 -0500

Ahem... Like I said Timmy... Being rude doesn't give you authority to make me do any thing ...

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 10 at 2022 5:01 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:01:58 -0500

Can’t take your car but can restrict you from operating it on base

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 10 at 2022 5:28 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:28:23 -0500

Base commander owns the base and he can take a sm, civilian and dependents driving privileges away on his base. If he or she has a legal reason then they can restrict you from driving on their base. And yes even a civilian employee. I have seen it done.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 10 at 2022 5:36 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:36:38 -0500

The UCMJ article is sighted on the article 15 you received for doing whatever you did to warrant loss of driving privileges and impounding of your vehicle.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2022 7:29 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2022 19:29:34 -0500

Short answer is no, a commander cannot take your car. The vehicle is not government property. Some believe the commander can impound it, well no they cannot. Now the Military Police can impound the vehicle if it is involved in a crime, or abandoned, but a commander cannot call them up and order them to impound it. A commander can order you not to operate the vehicle should you not have valid insurance or if the vehicle is not safe to operate and if you disobey the order then UCMJ is within their purview to hold you accountable and you may find yourself having nowhere to go for the next 45 days.

Response by SrA Kyle Saritelli made Mar 13 at 2022 5:59 PM

SrA Kyle Saritelli — Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:59:06 -0400

Closest I've ever seen to a commander "taking" someone's vehicle is when the commander ordered a new airman to sell his new car. Just out of basic and tech school, the E-3 goes off and bought a brand new Lexus (forgot what kind), fully loaded. After his payment and his insurance, he had about $20 left each month. He figured he'd be fine because he lived in the barracks and would just eat at the dinning facility. Yeah.. no. First month with the car he went out and partied, overdrew his bank account by $200 in one night.

Response by MSG John N Costa made Mar 15 at 2022 10:06 AM

MSG John N Costa — Tue, 15 Mar 2022 10:06:14 -0400

Don't drink drive and you won't have a problem.

Response by SFC Michael Lindenbusch made Mar 28 at 2022 12:56 PM

SFC Michael Lindenbusch — Mon, 28 Mar 2022 12:56:44 -0400

They can not "take" it, but...In certain circumstances, as a result of specific actions, an individual's on base driving privileges can be suspended. A vehicle may be impounded for specific reasons (as abandoned, for example). Most seriously, a vehicle, as with any other property, may be seized and held as evidence in criminal investigations.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2022 7:55 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 07:55:04 -0400

UCMJ Article 15. Also reference AR 190-5, OPNAV 11200.5D, AFI 31-218(I), MCO 5110.1D and
DLAR 5720.1, "Motor Vehicle Traffic Supervision".

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 12 at 2022 8:18 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 08:18:33 -0400

Commander districts you to barracks you still have to pay your bills.