What suggestions would you have for the rating changes based on the gender-neutral mandate?

LT Michael Cavaggioni — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:01:49 -0500

Well this is going to probably happen because the powers that be say so.

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/01/18/mcpon-wants-sailor-suggestions-job-title-review/78813768/

MCPON wants sailor suggestions for job title review

The reaction to Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus’ gender-nmandate to review all the Navy’s job titles, with an eye to make them gender neutral,has been overwhelming — sailors hate the idea — and many, both men and womenfeel it’s just a waste of time

Response by CAPT Tom Bersson made Jan 18 at 2016 6:08 PM

CAPT Tom Bersson — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:08:07 -0500

Tradition matters. Changes should be minimal.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jan 18 at 2016 6:09 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:09:49 -0500

Am I the only person out there who thinks this is the biggest waste of time and money?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2016 6:11 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:11:01 -0500

The MCPON must be bored. Maybe he can take a page from recent Sergeants Major of the Army and dabble in more uniform changes.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 18 at 2016 6:18 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:18:53 -0500

I had the pleasure of taking a college class with MCPON Stevens, and based on that experience found him to be reasonable and thoughtful in his approaches to issues and problems.

Ignoring the driving force for just a moment, let's look at the suggestion as posed:

"Are the current rating names correct/adequate/descriptive for what they actually do? If not what should they be?"

That's a completely reasonable question.

When you add in additional guidance from above regarding possible changes to names, we're merely looking at navigational beacons.

Yes, tradition is important. However sometimes tradition isn't as deeply rooted as we think it is. Sometimes it's just an administrative policy that no one serving remembers where it came from.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2016 6:55 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 18:55:10 -0500

Alright, so if this is going to happen, removing the portion "man" out of all rates, ratings and titles; are we going to redefine and rename the word wo"man" and hu"man"? This of course will require us to relabel all heads and latrines on ALL bases and government facilities. A bit asinine, but if you are going to do it you better go all of the way, wouldn't want to "OFFEND" anyone.......lol. I agree with the general consensus and believe that this a blatant waste of time for everyone involved!!

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jan 18 at 2016 7:05 PM

PO3 David Fries — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 19:05:14 -0500

I have suggestions, but they all very disrespectful to the Chain of Command!

Response by PO1 Matthew Murdock made Jan 18 at 2016 7:40 PM

PO1 Matthew Murdock — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 19:40:04 -0500

This is so stupid. How about we focus on making the fleet better and the sailors lives better. I guess soon we will not be able to say women just wo!!!

Response by LT Michael Cavaggioni made Jan 18 at 2016 7:47 PM

LT Michael Cavaggioni — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 19:47:53 -0500

I don't know why my question changed but the original question was something like this. Even if we don't agree with it (I don't). This is most likely going to happen because the powers that be say so. What suggestions would you have? *** Changed the question back now that I have the option to edit. ***

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jan 18 at 2016 8:44 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 20:44:59 -0500

Mandate? Does he mean perchilddate? How are you going to re-craft Yoeman? Yoeperchild just doesn't work...

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Jan 18 at 2016 9:12 PM

PO1 Brian Austin — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:12:19 -0500

I can see changing names of rates to make it more accurate, like RM to IT did a few years back. But to change the name of a rate because it has "man" in the title? Just plain stupid.

There are sooooo many bigger fish to fry like say, killing the enemy.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2016 10:06 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 22:06:02 -0500

Decide we've more pressing problems

Response by PO3 Michael James made Jan 18 at 2016 10:47 PM

PO3 Michael James — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 22:47:30 -0500

Gender Neutrality ?? Waste of time and money.. more pressing Issues facing our Navy.. Who Complained.. Next will we have to refer to a Ship as him.. Oh I remember the USS New Jersey, She was a beauty.. Will we have to determine which ship will become a he, or a she.. Will we have to look under the fan tail to confirm the gender of a ship.. More waste..

Response by CMDCM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 12:35 AM

CMDCM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 00:35:28 -0500

I will apologize if I offend anyone right up front however, I was brought up the ole school way in which the quote, "the military is not a democracy"...this is another example of the hyper-sensitive society that we live in that allows for our traditions and customs to be lowered to meaningless quandrums because someone may or may not be offended! I came in the Navy with the very clear understanding I was training and will be trained, regardless of my rate to kill or strongly oppose those who dared to contradict my countries freedoms and liberties that many men and women in uniform have paid the ultimate price with their lives! I love my country and my Navy but I do not like what "SHE" has become! When these individuals that are perceived to be offended by the word "man" or "woman" in time of actual war where they consciencely know theirs or their shipmates life may be lost will they perceive to be offended then...again I apologize but our focus of mission has been lost in the spiraling societal ideology from those who have and never will know what it means to serve our country!

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Jan 19 at 2016 4:16 AM

PO1 Rick Serviss — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 04:16:28 -0500

I have not heard of very many woman who appreciate the change. They feel that there is far more important things to worry about like sexual assault. I think it's ridiculous. Let's start thinking about taking the word male out of female. After all, why just stop at job titles?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 19 at 2016 6:34 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 06:34:28 -0500

"Sailor" seems pretty neutral..

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Jan 19 at 2016 6:42 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 06:42:30 -0500

Is this going to effect the non-rates also (Seaman, Airman, Fireman, etc.)?

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Jan 19 at 2016 9:19 AM

SSG Lon Watson — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 09:19:36 -0500

Yes, suck it up buttercup! Names are gender neutral enough.

Response by PO1 Frank Reiffenstein made Jan 19 at 2016 10:27 AM

PO1 Frank Reiffenstein — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:27:35 -0500

Change is fine,but this is stupid. Check the DNA,problem solved. Male and Female. None other. Leave the Navy Jobs alone.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 10:52 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:52:58 -0500

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PURPLE PENGUIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are all purple penguin now!!!!!

LOL LOL

Response by PO1 John Juarez made Jan 19 at 2016 11:02 AM

PO1 John Juarez — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:02:04 -0500

Leave them the hell alone!! And for anyone butthurt, put on your big kids pants and suck it up!!!! There are a lot more important issues to worry about!

Response by CAPT V L Cassani III made Jan 19 at 2016 11:37 AM

CAPT V L Cassani III — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:37:39 -0500

MASTER CHIEF, SPEND AS MUCH TIME AS YOU NEED, SAY 367 DAYS, TO RESPOND. THAT WILL TAKE SECNAV MABUS OUT OF THE LOOP.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 12:19 PM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 12:19:28 -0500

Just be aware that the MCPON is playing bait and switch. His example of the Sailor coming up with the name "Propulsion Mechanic" is a perfect example. After the review is complete, they will say that a Sailor came up with the name, and completely ignore the fact that the Sailor didn't want to change the name at all.

Response by MCPO Dan O'Reilly made Jan 19 at 2016 12:24 PM

MCPO Dan O'Reilly — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 12:24:06 -0500

Just use "Mate" with all titles....SMCM(SW) USN Ret.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 1:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:18:24 -0500

Change all ratings to "Blue Falcon"

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Jan 19 at 2016 1:26 PM

1LT Aaron Barr — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:26:49 -0500

The purpose of the military is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, not be a petri dish for the braindead experimentations of social engineers. Nonsense like this is why I don't vote Democrat....

Response by PO2 Ric Beard made Jan 19 at 2016 1:57 PM

PO2 Ric Beard — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:57:46 -0500

I seem to be confused regarding this mandate. 1st women want to be recognized and treated as equals "equal opportunity", then they want to be treated differently as strong independent women "open bullets to all sexes". This to me is a colossal waste of time, energy, and taxpayer dollars to please the liberal mouths of the public. Since when did the strongest protective force on the planet care about what the public thinks about job titles? You think we liked being called seamen? It's time to stop trying to please everyone that makes a fuss about something they don't like. If you don't like it, don't join!

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Jan 19 at 2016 3:16 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 15:16:06 -0500

I would respectfully request that the MCPON look for ways to improve quality of life issues such as pay and advancement and stop worrying if some whiner is offended by the term Seaman, Airman, Fireman, Constructionman or Corpsman. In the big picture quality of life issues are much more important and as MCPON if he doesn't realize that by now he is in the wrong job.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Jan 19 at 2016 4:31 PM

CDR Kenneth Kaiser — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:31:52 -0500

I don't find this a reasonable course of action at all. Someone at that level should be able to suggest that the Emperor has no clothes. I think the best solution would be to put these decision makers that are driving the social experimentation in the services on a steady diet of bean burritos. Perhaps the resulting biological and physiological consequences of the steady bean diet would facilitate the removal of their cranial cavities from the other physiological extremities so that they could star to address matters of consequence such as force size, getting us the ships and other equipment we collectively need rather that pussyfooting around trying to be politically correct. I miss the Pattons and the Halseys and the Pullers. Lets go back to being a military rather than some sort of sociological lab experiment

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 6:15 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 18:15:14 -0500

I’d start issuing everyone straws, telling them we are NOT going to focus on changing names to be gender-neutral, and if they have an issue with it, suck it the fudge up (in “proper”, non-PC Sailor language), because we have more important things to take care of, like warfighting and training.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 8:05 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:05:02 -0500

I think which ever females even brought this up need to grow thicker skin. I'm tired of this "feminism" movement where females complain about the smallest of subjects just because all of a sudden Navy traditions offend them.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 8:55 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:55:07 -0500

My suggestion would be to fire the SECNAV, or at least tell him to stay in his lane. Civilians shouldn't be able to effect this type of change in the military and in my opinion his background doesn't warrant a valid opinion on this topic.

If there are Sailors who actually worry about this to the point where it affects their performance, needs to find another job or their supervisor needs to find them more work to do. The type of person that worries about a gender nutral job title will not have the strength to fight a war when the time comes. Stuff like this promotes weakness.

Response by PO2 Tom Aarstad made Jan 19 at 2016 9:28 PM

PO2 Tom Aarstad — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 21:28:16 -0500

In reality whether you're a man or a wo-man it is tradition of the Navy to use the present designations. Is the idea to change just the designations or are the intentions to change "Man the bridge" to "Person the bridge"? Then the Yeoman would become a Yeoperson?

Response by CPO David Sharp made Jan 20 at 2016 7:54 AM

CPO David Sharp — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 07:54:22 -0500

With enough Male and Female input about this issue, both sides, a balance of opinion in the Enlisted Community to have a valid "Yea or Nay" voice, the MCPON had better do his job. The Officers are intruding into enlisted territory a bit too much, in my feelings. One particular aspect is the "Chief Initiation Process" which is a valuable period of time for a Petty Officer to learn what a"Chief" is and not be just an E-7. This process has been diluted, now to further dilute a war-fighting Organization to make it more palatable to "arm-chair Sailors" and "no-can-do" Legislators. Think the National Debt needs the same attention as this P.C.B.S.?

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Jan 20 at 2016 9:42 AM

SSG Wally Lawver — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 09:42:39 -0500

A bunch of PC BS, deal with it and move on..........................

Response by PO2 Arthur Delsing made Jan 20 at 2016 10:49 AM

PO2 Arthur Delsing — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 10:49:19 -0500

I won't botch and moan about the stupidity of changing the names but I will focus on how it should happen. If we really are going to neutralize the names as to avoid offense we have to acknowledge solid tradition as well. I am sure there are some ratings that are not gender neutral, though I am not coming up with any right now, the generalized naming should stay, I.e. Seamen, Firemen, Airmen, because all of these generalize a group and is not truly a gender based nonmenclatutr. I like the idea of critiquing all the rates and adjusting names to fit their jobs more so then focusing on the "men" or "man".

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jan 21 at 2016 6:14 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 06:14:25 -0500

I will never regret my time in the AF, but I am soooooo glad I retired years ago when the PC nonsense was just starting. That said good luck with deciding on all of this non gender nonsense and this from a former Airperson.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 8:05 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 08:05:29 -0500

We most definitely have bigger issues to fix and to fight before we worry about things that are so indifferent. Does anyone really have an issue with this? Is it just one "new" person? activist? Complaining about something just to make headlines? YEO"MAN"! Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the first FEMALE CHIEF PETTY OFFICER A YEOMAN http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=59573? I don't think she had a problem with it. Seriously, leave it alone. Focus on THE MISSION! GOD BLESS THE 12 LOST MARINES OF THE RECENT HELO CRASH! THIS SHOULD BE OUR BIGGEST HEADLINE FOR THE MOMENT. THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.

Sailors Honor Life and Legacy of First Female CPO

Sailors and distinguished guests honored the life and legacy of the Navy's first female chief petty officer (CPO) during

Response by SPC Dee Bartlett made Jan 21 at 2016 9:19 AM

SPC Dee Bartlett — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 09:19:14 -0500

I'm not Navy and don't have a dog in this race, but I'm almost positive there is a better way to spend resources than this. I'm still wondering how we even got to this issue.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 10:57 AM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:57:29 -0500

As I see it there are basically two options, which I think most people commenting here are not pleased about.

The first is to drop the term man for mate. New examples would be machinist mate or pharmacist mate. This may pose a problem for certain ratings where the flow would be awkward and it would require changes to a large number of governing instructions.

A second option is to drop the rating system when referring to a sailor and just use the rank:
E-1 - sailor recruit
E-2 - Sailor Apprentice
E-3 - Sailor
E-4 - Petty Officer 3rd Class
and so on.
This system would be more in line with other services and sailors would still retain their NEC (MOS) and contact their detailers based on NEC instead of rating.

Either way it will be a significant overhaul of the current system which will require manpower and money. Both of which are in short supply.

Response by SCPO Paul Dyjak made Jan 21 at 2016 5:59 PM

SCPO Paul Dyjak — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:59:00 -0500

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs could be changed to HMFIC Head Mother f--ker in Charge. This change could also apply to th. Com Navs

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 7:37 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:37:36 -0500

how about retiree...im so tired of this nonsense

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 8:50 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:50:36 -0500

How did our Country fall so far that one of our top priorities have become "take the word 'man' out of the job titles."

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 8:54 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:54:41 -0500

So, I'm curious; is there a single person in the military today who actually thinks this should be done? Where did this outcry come from? I ask because I've asked every female (when will they demand "male" removed from female?) member I've worked with, and not one of them gives a damn about the "~man" at the end of their rates. When will the PC sensitivity stop?

It's times like this that I wonder why people ever question my decision to stay stationed in, Japan.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 22 at 2016 12:47 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 00:47:16 -0500

Hopefully MCPON will listen to you active duty Sailors and tell SECNAV to piss off.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 3:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 15:53:02 -0500

This is ridicules, why has the military become a social experiment? We need to focus on more important things like even more MRT and SHARP training and the 35.6 variants of.

Response by PO1 Charles Babcock made Jan 26 at 2016 11:55 AM

PO1 Charles Babcock — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:55:38 -0500

One more PC waste of time and resources to screw with something that isn't broke.

Response by PO1 Fred Gittner made Jan 26 at 2016 10:04 PM

PO1 Fred Gittner — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 22:04:49 -0500

MPERSON AND WPERSON - HECK HOW WOULD YOU PRONOUNCE IT

Response by LCDR Dave Spurlock made Jan 27 at 2016 12:01 AM

LCDR Dave Spurlock — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 00:01:21 -0500

Tell the whole lot of the powers that be to pack sand. No a very constructive response but one has to ask, how long are we going to put up with this shit. The Admirals won't stand up for what's right so why do you have to keep being the ones that keep taking it in the shorts. Tell me one good reason why over 200 yrs of Navy Tradition are going to get flushed down the toilet because a bunch of flag officers and civil servants don't have the spine to say NO! Start writing your Congressmen (notice they aren't going to change their titles). START VOTING! It is about time that the DoD stops being the testing ground for whatever social experiment of the day happens to be.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:35 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 00:35:55 -0500

I'd change seaman to semen, because we were all sperm at some point. #Equality

Response by CDR Kenneth Reber made Jan 28 at 2016 8:34 PM

CDR Kenneth Reber — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:34:00 -0500

Dear Secretary Mabus,
I am very excited about your plan to change all job titles within the US Navy to gender neutral. As a veteran I want to be your advocate to help people understand your plan and embrace it as a logical evolution of the traditions of the US Navy. To fully embrace your plan I would like to request some background data to better understand the driving requirements for this change.
First can you provide the detailed studies that show the adverse effects from the current job descriptions? I assume that US Navy rates without the word “man” have a higher percentage of female applicants. I also would like to see the study that shows the negative impact on the US Naval Academy recruitment of women because their title would be Midshipman instead of Cadet. I would also like to see the budget for this plan. How much has been allocated for the direct costs in this fiscal year and in the FYDP? These costs are going to be significant given the number of places these names will need to be changed. Are you also budgeting for the indirect costs- the training and other activities? What budget lines will be impacted by this change? Will Congress approve a budget and spending increase to account for this critical project?
Once this is implemented I would like to move onto other specific examples of Navy traditions that are offensive. The term “Master” within the rank of Master Chief is clearly insulting to anyone who is aware of US History. Additionally “Senior” should be removed from Senior Chief because of the overt ageism associated with this title. The title of “Master” for USNS ships must be on the list too. I think using red for “Fireman” also insulting to some members of the US Navy so that needs to be evaluated.
Certainly we can find additional changes that need to be made to our antiquated traditions so please keep me informed of your next project so I can be your advocate.
Thanks
VR
Ken

Response by CPO Curtiss Hill made Jan 30 at 2016 9:41 PM

CPO Curtiss Hill — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 21:41:41 -0500

I think this is a waste of time. Changing the ratings to make them gender neutral isn't going to change the culture of the Navy and establishing a politically correct environment will not make for better Sailors.

Response by PO1 Kenneth Cardwell made Feb 11 at 2016 12:34 PM

PO1 Kenneth Cardwell — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 12:34:09 -0500

Instead of Semen. Airman or Fireman, Sailor Lower or Junior Enlisted 1, 2 and 3. Corpsman. Medic E 4-E-5 E6 Etc;
Man overboard. sailor overboard. Man the rails. Muster at the rails.

Response by CWO4 Michael Gammage made Apr 12 at 2016 11:52 AM

CWO4 Michael Gammage — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 11:52:59 -0400

I think we need to Not fix what is not broken! I hope I heard correctly that students at the Naval Academy will continue to be referred to as MidshipMEN. Concentrate on the mission and let's no worry about what our rating is.