What strategies does the military use to train soldiers to kill?

2015-09-15T18:37:21-04:00

This question is a very difficult question and many people who have a liberal aspect on war have problems with the military. This is where it comes into play, at basic training, I believe that the ultimate goal of Drill Sergeants is to make us soldiers who are willing to fight. I mean at least that's what my Drill Sergeants did to me. But what is it that they do or the military does period to convince us that we are always the good guys and need to take that shot before its taken at us. I mean yeah, its human nature sometimes, but life has value and the military often is good at teaching you how and when to pull the trigger without even thinking.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 6:41 PM

2015-09-15T18:41:50-04:00

There shouldn't be any trigger pulling without thinking.

I find it hard to believe a drill would be encouraging that.

Response by SFC Michael Whipple made Sep 15 at 2015 6:44 PM

2015-09-15T18:44:55-04:00

You can read as much military doctrine as you wish, the word, "kill" is never used in training Soldiers. Soldiers are trained to shoot, move, and communicate. Trained to neutralize the threat.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 6:44 PM

2015-09-15T18:44:58-04:00

By pride in nation, and trust in leaders. Leaders must develop relationships with their subordinates that create the right environment. The classic "charge that machine gun nest".

If we develop our subordinates with trust and respect, they will know that they are part of a culture that is superior above the rest, and they will have faith in what they are doing.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 15 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-09-15T18:45:39-04:00

Whooooo....

You're asking a huge question there. Let's hit a couple very "basic" examples, which are built upon.

1) Strip everyone down, but them in the same uniform and create an "us" mentality. Reinforce it with a common background, SEVERAL philosophical lessons. I could spend months talking about this.

2) Turn maneuver (movement), and several other "order taking" aspects into immediate tasks.

3) Train to shoot on silhouettes, at range, turning the process and practice into something very impersonal. Build fundamentals until it becomes "reflex" for later use.

These are just a few.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Sep 15 at 2015 6:55 PM

2015-09-15T18:55:14-04:00

First off, good question.

Personally, I think it is all a matter of self-defense; not just you, but your buddies to your left and right. I've been to memorial ceremonies and got choked up for people I'd never heard of, so I can only imagine how it must be for someone you DO know. Do you really want to put your friends and family through the anguish of your funeral, or the friends and family of your buddy? Sure, love of country and freedom are noble things to fight for, but those can sometimes be a bit distant, whereas your battle buddy is tangible.

People who know me know I am an easy-going guy with hatred for virtually no one, but if I ever get into a situation where it's me or him, I'm going to do my best to make sure it's me that's left standing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 6:56 PM

2015-09-15T18:56:16-04:00

As a soldier first, infantryman second, we're never taught to pull the trigger without thinking. With every order to kill comes the individual's own assessment of the order: lawful or unlawful.

The military doesn't actually teach a soldier to kill, it teaches him/her how to fight, the actual act of killing only comes because the soldier was trained how to properly fight.

The bottom line is, the military gives you the tools and training necessary to kill, but it's up to the actual individual to not only teach themselves to kill, but to determine if the "enemy" is a lawful combatant, regardless of orders.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 15 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-09-15T19:48:48-04:00

In the American perspective, the instruments of national power are: Diplomacy, Information, Military, and Economic (DIME). According to Joint Publication 1, The ability of the US to advance its national interests is dependent on the effectiveness of the United States Government (USG) in employing the instruments of national power to achieve national strategic objectives. The appropriate governmental officials, often with NSC direction, normally coordinate the employment of instruments of national power.

We are not thoughtless warriors. We are humans who have feelings about the enemy and our fellow teammates.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-09-16T19:00:43-04:00

My Drills and my NCO have always told me that the only way to truly train someone to take a life is to rationalize it. It's no longer about good vs evil. It is now viewed as "my life or theirs. Their life or the life of the guys beside me." If that doesn't motivate you to Breath, Aim, Squeeze, and Fire, then 1, you dont belong in this man's military, and 2, you are seriously screwed up in the head.

Response by SPC George Long made Sep 16 at 2015 7:18 PM

2015-09-16T19:18:35-04:00

A few shots in a fire fight generally removes all doubt in a Soldiers that killing the people who are trying to kill you is a good idea. The enemy will give you reason to shoot them . The Army needs to teach you the skills to survive your first few contacts. After that............"Those who fight monsters inevitably change. Because of all that they see and do, they lose their innocence, and a piece of their humanity with it. If they want to survive, they begin to adopt some of the same characteristics as the monsters they fight. It is necessary. They become capable of rage, and extreme violence.

There is a fundamental difference, however. They keep those monster tendencies locked away in a cage, deep inside. That monster is only allowed out to protect others, to accomplish the mission, to get the job done.....Not for the perverse pleasure that the monsters feel when they harm others. In fact, those monster tendencies cause damage...GUILT, ISOLATION, DEPRESSION, PTSD. There is a cost for visiting violence on others when you are not a monster. Those who do so know one thing...The cost inflicted upon society as a whole is far greater without those who fight monsters. That is why they are willing to make that horrible sacrifice so that others may live peaceably.

Before you judge one of us, remember this...

We witness things that humans aren't meant to see...and we see them repeatedly. We perform the duties that you feel are beneath you. We solve your problems... Often by visiting violence upon others. We run towards the things that you run away from. We go out to fight what you fear. We stand between you, and the monsters that want to damage you. You want to pretend that they don't exist, but we know better. We do the things that the vast majority are too soft, too weak, too cowardly to do.

Your life is more peaceful.....because of us.

The current political climate in this country holds that there is nothing worth fighting for. Submission is the popular mantra. Warriors are decried, denigrated, and cast as morally inferior. We know how childish, how asinine, and how cowardly that mindset is.

We know this.....There ARE things worth fighting, and dying for. We know that not every problem can be solved through rational discourse...that some problems can only be solved through the application of force and violence. And, while we do prefer the former....we are perfectly capable of the latter.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 8:45 PM

2015-09-16T20:45:30-04:00

No one has to hate America. No one has to try and kill its people. But there are people who do. And so long as they do we must stand ready to prevent them from doing so. If it means that the enemy dies so be it. That's one more American who doesn't have to live in fear.

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made Sep 18 at 2015 1:51 PM

2015-09-18T13:51:43-04:00

PFC Bryant, to give you the best possible answer, I would say it comes down to 3 thing. First Trust and Pride in the Nation. Second the free will to determine if orders are lawful or unlawful. Third (is my 2cents) trust in training ... I grew up in the shadows of Viet Nam (50% of my DS were combat vets). I wondered and questioned if I was combat ready at the end of basic; ironically I didn't think my entire platoon was. We were taught more of the skills and not the skills and faith in the Soldier next to me. This left a "bad taste in my mouth", for the first part of my career ... But I think it made me a better NCO because of it.

Imagine my surprise when I received orders for DS School ... I didn't think I was going to agree with the training I was about to be ask to do. We had a sign on the wall that said "Let No Soldier cry out "I was not trained!". Again this and 9/11 (my time as a DS) pushed me to be a better DS. The idea of Soldiers feeling as I did at the end of Basic Training and about to go to war ... Was unexceptionable to me.

The line is you have to be confident that your Nation (and not the politicians), your Orders, and your Training are all right and in your best interest.

Remember it's not the President that we follow directly, but our Commander in Chief, the Joint Chiefs, and ... the rest of your chain of command

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:10 AM

2015-09-23T02:10:05-04:00

PFC Bryant,
First off I'd like to say my fellow NCOs, Officers past and present have given some really good answers. I will give you this to put in your kit bag. As an ex-drill sergeant for the Infantry and an Infantryman myself; possessing the ability to "kill" (as you put it), has many different meanings. Yes, while in Basic Combat Training you may have been taught to Respond to "What makes the green grass grow?" And you, the trainees, right answer would've been "BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, DRILL SERGEANT!" In a loud an thunderous voice. Well the common Pearson would think "That's gross!" or "There animals" etc. but the fact is that (among a lot of other things) Drill Sergeants are there to change your thought process or at least evaluate things in a different point of view. In the example above (I used a very mild saying) that there are people out there that would be offended but that's not the point here. The point here is the changing of the way you look at things. In the book by LTC David Grossman, he goes into great detail about killing, the cause and affects of actually doing it. He explains through time how we have changed as soldiers and our abilities to take lives (starting all the way back to the civil war). The common human being that takes the life of another human being may not be able to cope with such an act, and the Taunting realities of what they had done. Then there may be others that don't poses the ability to harm another human being at the cost of there own life. One of the attributes that we as soldiers have to posses the ability to desensitize as a coping mechanism. What I mean here is no matter what it's another human life(no getting around that) but by changing the words from human, Pearson, people, life, killing to target, enemy, combatant, neutralized, smoked'em etc. you've changed the subject from being a friendly, soft, human, living to more of a inanimate object or a life threatening creature. The whole "you before me" thought process. Another is detaching oneself from the common civilian terminology of "killing is bad", "taking another life will damn you to hell" or "killing and murder are the same thing" (are just a few that I've heard over the years). This isn't the way "...a soldier, a guardian of our way of life..." should think. You have to start attaching yourself to terminology of "The enemy has been destroyed", "We've neutralized the threat", or "That *beep* just got smoked" (not saying the last one is the most PC but it's the truth of it). We learn these things through our training, by the way the veterans (older soldiers) converse, or what we hear from Hollywood (had to throw that in). The important thing is detaching from the way you use to think, talk and act. Probably one of the more important is of course, what your own personal morals are. Weather they come from your heart, your religion or your conscience. It takes a unique bread of mankind to willingly take the life of another man. The difference between willingly taken the life of another man and feeling remorse for it and not feeling anything at all (at least the first time) would make me wonder about your current frame of min and question you current psychological state. Personally I wouldn't use the terminology of "strategy" as redefining the way a civilian thinks and revamping the civilians thought process to shoot, move and communicate like soldier. I'll leave you with this: "If I pull this trigger I'm killing that man." Or "By taking down the enemy, I'll save mine and battle buddies lives."

SSG McMurtrey, Jonathan P.
U.S. Army Infantry

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:57 AM

2015-09-23T02:57:52-04:00

Yes. On killing was a good book that described on Killing

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Feb 17 at 2016 6:21 PM

2016-02-17T18:21:20-05:00

First of we are trained to kill we are trained to shoot, and lets be honest .223 do not kill, but AK 7.62 does. If enemy dies from their wounds suffered from too many .223 is because they stayed expose for to long. Now you have the right to be exposed to their 7.62 if you wish.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 17 at 2016 9:08 PM

2016-02-17T21:08:04-05:00

Often most of the thinking is already done for you bye the ROE or orders by superiors. We might not like or believe wars, but we are the military will act apolitically. To do anything less is a disservice to your country and the people on the left and right of you.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 12:28 AM

2016-02-18T00:28:47-05:00

Always remember this golden rule..."You will always know more after the shot is fired than before."

Response by CPT Chris Newport made Feb 27 at 2016 9:24 PM

2016-02-27T21:24:08-05:00

Personal and unit survival in the face of our mortal enemies.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Oct 19 at 2017 7:14 PM

2017-10-19T19:14:25-04:00

If you look at recruiting posters used by most nations prior to the two world wars, you'll notice each attempts to de-humanize the enemy to the point where farm boys and store clerks will kill to protect themselves and our nation.

Response by SPC Jeremy Gwilliam made Nov 4 at 2017 9:04 PM

2017-11-04T21:04:56-04:00

Our NCO's during the Cold War when the Then Soviet Union had 10 divisions parked on Poland's border. We were told we would be outnumbered 10-1 but had to hold until reinforcements could come on line. We were told we would be killed but did not have permission to die until we took ten Communists first. When you hear that you tend to have no qualms about it. Killing is easy. Putting people back together is much harder. Basic Human instincts kick in and you do what you need to do. Living with it after is often the hardest part. If you're not capable of killing your Instructors at Benning will recognize it and send you packing. Good Luck