What should you do about NCOs bad-mouthing NCOs?

2014-08-03 12:08:59 -0400

I have a dilemma and I've been scratching up information from my personal NCOs and those around me to ease into how this should be handled and I've been told a couple things, but I figured I should drop a question to the masses because of your time in service and wisdom.

The most difficult part of this is that the NCO who made these comments is the PSG and did so in front of half the platoon. He's my PSG, which means any further moves could be career damaging...

—• Who should I talk to?
I went to an NCO I could trust and he suggested talking to our EO rep.

I went to the EO rep and he said that they don't have EO "set up" in our unit and BN doesn't either, so there hasn't been pressure to really step it up...?

I digress. I've been thinking about taking it to our 1SG on open door and asking for guidance, but I'm hesitant to mess intra-chain because, again- career path.

The things said were vile and extremely racial and sexist and this is far from the first time, but this past range was absolutely inexcusable; the foul spite that he's been vomiting from this nonsense dumpster as a "leader" is mind-boggling.

It was also suggested that I contact IG, because of the size of our unit, being one of the biggest in the Reserves.

Thoughts?

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Aug 3 at 2014 12:18 PM

2014-08-03 12:18:04 -0400

If you feel as strongly about the words that this NCO expressed, then I would charge you to report it. If you went to EO and was told what you wrote above, that is very disheartening. IG is an option, but as a former 1SG, I would like to be informed of something of this nature within my ranks. Utilize the open policy with your 1SG. Afford your 1SG and CDR the opportunity to fix the situation. If that does not work, then you can move further up your chain to BN/SQDN level.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Aug 3 at 2014 1:54 PM

2014-08-03 13:54:11 -0400

I am a little confused as to why the NCO you spoke to did not take this on and run with it. He/she should have taken you under wind and escorted you to the next step in the chain to solve the problem, unless the Army is used to passing the buck and not solving problems. I would expect everyone in my chain of command to be a part of the solution to a problem like you describe.

Of course the 1st Sgt or SMG is the ultimate enlisted problem solver. Failing that the Commander might have to get involved.

Response by SGT Joseph Smith made Aug 3 at 2014 2:33 PM

2014-08-03 14:33:08 -0400

Definitely chain of command and only go higher if you are hitting the metaphorical stone wall: IG would be the "Last resort," but keep it on the table regardless.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 22 at 2015 4:58 PM

2015-12-22 16:58:33 -0500

This won't help you much but what you are facing is moral courage. What kind of 1SG and CO do you have. Are they by the book or seat of their pants leaders but try to fix it in house. Going outside the unit is frowned upon, but maybe necessary.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-12-22 17:01:44 -0500

If you feel like you are going to receive flak because of a legitimate concern, you need to look outside your unit. There should be no reason your 1SG would do anything to damage your career because of a real concern. If anything it will be an experience you can refer back to when you get to the PSG level or higher.

Response by MSG Martin C. made Aug 15 at 2016 2:42 PM

2016-08-15 14:42:10 -0400

You need to have the intestinal fortitude to bring it to the 1SG and CDR. Make sure to have the exact comments, times, and dates. Stick to the facts. Also if your BN don't have an EO program you can go to BDE and post. Definitely talk to your chain of command to allow them the opportunity to handle the situation head on.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Aug 15 at 2016 6:29 PM

2016-08-15 18:29:49 -0400

Career or principles? Is your Reserve career worth your self respect?

Response by CW3 Matt Hutchason made Aug 15 at 2016 7:25 PM

2016-08-15 19:25:12 -0400

I had a situation one time when I was a Marine Recruiter. The offending person was my SNCOIC of my RSS. Because of the small size of our office (4 Marines) and our RS (maybe 40 Marine NCO's), and out of fear of reprisal, I called a former mentor of mine who had been my Battery 1stSgt when I was a Sgt. When I called him, he was serving as the SgtMaj of an Infantry Battalion at LeJeune. I called him and told him my problem and explained my concerns and broke all the details out on him. We talked maybe an hour. He was asking me questions and thinking how to handle it. He said he would call me back in an hour. He called back and asked if i knew my current SgtMaj at the RS, which I did. He asked me if I trusted him. I said "should I?" The 2 of them had been 1stSgt'sntogether for a time in the BLT we were deployed with. My mentor said to expect a call from my actual SgtMaj to call. He called and asked if I could come to RS HQ undetected. I did, went in a room with him, a JAG, and the Ops Officer. They asked me my stories, and I told the my stories. The offender was immediately removed, barred from contact with anybody in the command, and he lost his 8412 Career Recruiter MOS and position. Long story, but find a high ranking mentor of yours and ask them to work behind the scenes. Those old mentors are that for a reason. Good luck with your problem.

Response by SSG David Springer made Aug 15 at 2016 8:33 PM

2016-08-15 20:33:06 -0400

Definitely go to IG. The possibility of your command having the PSG back is high. Normally I would say to confront him but that only got me in trouble. Plus IG can have a talk with him without his career being in jeopardy.

Response by SSG David Springer made Aug 15 at 2016 8:38 PM

2016-08-15 20:38:07 -0400

Many are saying to have the guts to talk to your command, but how many of them would be open to hearing it about one of their senior NCO. Reserve and National Guard work slightly different than regular Army. There is more of a good old boy system. Plus IG can have a closed discussion without anyone getting in trouble.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 12:04 AM

2016-08-16 00:04:21 -0400

I would go to your EOA. There's no exception for unprofessional toxic behavior. Everyone as a leader that didn't say anything is just as wrong. My disclaimer to all is if I say keep it professional I'm only saying it once. After that I will take action. But it also depends on the act
SFC

Response by SFC Phillip Wiley made Aug 16 at 2016 10:41 AM

2016-08-16 10:41:12 -0400

First off -- if you in fact went to EO and received the brief stated above that is the LAZIEST as well as sorry excuse for and EO REP and he/she should no longer be in the position period.

Secondly -- You need to let the NCO that his words are offensive and uncalled for.

Thirdly -- You should never be hesitant to speak with the 1SG on any matters. That is why he exists. If your matter is trite he may inform you as such, but what are a few words of harsh guidance if it places you on the correct path. By going around TOP and not informing him letting him take a blind shot to the grill is probably not your best answer in most situations.

If this persons words made you feel so passionate about it then be an adult, an NCO, and do something about it. Sitting and grumbling or lacking confrontation due to unforeseen outcomes only enables the person to continue and places yourself and all who listened and said nothing just as responsible as if you said it yourself.

Now with all that said http://www.usar.army.mil/Featured/Resources/Equal-Opportunity/ you can find POC's and numbers located here utilize them.

Equal Opportunity

Official site of the U.S. Army Reserve, the federal military reserve forces of the United States.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Aug 16 at 2016 11:23 AM

2016-08-16 11:23:33 -0400

If you feel that strongly about it, maybe you should have said how you felt right then and there, where you would have had witnesses to corroborate your side of it. Sometimes, it hurts to do the right thing at the correct time.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 6:04 AM

2016-08-17 06:04:03 -0400

You have some pretty solid advice on here already. Don't stress about your career when dealing with turds like that. The Army is counting on you saying something and stopping this now. If you feel you have reprisal due to reporting then go to the 1SG and worst case IG.

Were there are other soldiers around that can say the same thing that you heard and are reporting ? Numbers really help an issue like this get fixed. As a 1SG if one Soldier came in I would look into it but if a few came in I would immediately know this wasn't a honest mistake and I would definitely look into it quickly.

Response by SSG Richard Stevens made Aug 17 at 2016 6:46 AM

2016-08-17 06:46:35 -0400

If that is happening, it needs to be dealt with now. The NCO that is doing it, needs to be removed as a leader report it right away.

Response by SSgt Lonnie Montgomery made Aug 17 at 2016 7:28 AM

2016-08-17 07:28:32 -0400

Sgt,
Without knowing the details. Your 1SG did not get their rank and position by accident, respectively seek their guidance.

Response by TSgt Eric Lewis made Aug 17 at 2016 7:55 AM

2016-08-17 07:55:55 -0400

Not turning it in can be just as damaging as you think it will if you do. His comments will be damaging to your unit. Not may, WILL. The EO person should have, at the minimum, pointed you in the right direction. The best thing for you to do is follow your chain of command. Even if you go outside your unit, keep your 1SG in the loop. I've never been one for political correctness, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. If the NCO crossed that line, it should be turned in.

Response by MCPO Tom Miller made Aug 17 at 2016 9:00 AM

2016-08-17 09:00:58 -0400

This all comes from command leadership or lack of it! With a strong upper leadership, this would never be allowed or emulated. So much PC indifference to pride of self or units is manufacturing self importance over that once respectful team spirit! The reason he's acting this way is because he can which tells me that oversight and superiors are less capable and there isn't any standards of conduct! In my tenure, a quick response would set him or her straight without hesitation, but we didn't have all the variables of sex, gender, PC regs and all the up and down political influences. We need Flag Officers who meet need head on without worry of not losing political standing!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 10:27 AM

2016-08-17 10:27:19 -0400

Did you talk to the Platoon Leader at all? Chain of Influence is what I call it. Who in the organization has the most influence? Not saying the PL is the first choice to influence a SNCO but! This could be an opportunity for you, a Junior NCO to influence a young Officer and give him or her the chance to come up with a course of action and confront the issue internally at the lowest level. I say this not to counter the great advice others here are giving, just a possible route for you to consider. As professionals we all know this type of behavior, especially from a SNCO is unacceptable. So consider you're position as the position of being right. Unfortunately there is the issue of reprisal, but that has been faced many times in the past, courageously by professionals who hold the position of being right. Try and give your Platoon Leader the opportunity to come up with a solution, and of course you could do this all in confidentiality. It's not always only about fixing the issue, if there is a lesson to be learned make it happen. Early leadership development of our PLs in todays military is critical to our profession and mission success, give it a try.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 10:30 AM

2016-08-17 10:30:05 -0400

This is quite a dilemma.....tolerating unprofessional behavior is condoning it...by self preservation is a strong motivator. Ultimately, it comes down to character and integrity....do you have the strength of will and courage of conviction to right a wrong? You're obviously struggling with this. All we can do from here is offer advice, ultimately you have to fix this. Good luck and the fact that it bothers you says a great deal about your character.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Aug 17 at 2016 10:42 AM

2016-08-17 10:42:53 -0400

You have a chain of command, use it. Provide them w/ exact details such as dates, exact quotes, names of any witnesses present (if any). If you cannot substantiate your allegation you should not go forward w/ them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 11:18 AM

2016-08-17 11:18:55 -0400

I know and agree that the first thing I have to say is that it is due to some toxic leadership. I will also agree that this should be 100% be sent to EO. Because of this NCO my enlisted members will not see their leadership as leadership. So yes report this to your first sergeant and if he doesn't want to take the initiative go to the SGM and so forth. But keep it formal.

Response by MSG Pedro Valentin made Aug 17 at 2016 11:27 AM

2016-08-17 11:27:14 -0400

Since, it appears this is a habit it should be reported to higher up. Now, since you are in a reserve unit it and this is your PSG it may be a difficult task depending on the chain of command. I would recommend that the soldiers which have personally witnessed these actions by the PSG, since, there is NO EO rep in the unit contact the next level EO Rep, or IG. Especially, since going to the 1SG may be questionable which it shouldn't be. It's best to address this with all that heard and seen the PSG act in an unprofessional and diragatory manner. It's not as simple as it may appear to whom to go but the 1SG should be made unformed of the situation. And, I would look into the IG and Next higher level EO policy which should be open door policy.

Response by MSgt Jim Bain made Aug 17 at 2016 11:33 AM

2016-08-17 11:33:26 -0400

Your 1st sgt. is the person to see, but be careful, they may be buddies, so feel out the reaction, if the vibes don't feel good, time to see the Officer in charge. This man will be trouble down the road, believe me! A lot of these people are old school, the crap they spout, should be left in the past, but do not blame him completely, this is probably the way he was brought up, remember we all had lives before we joined!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 11:34 AM

2016-08-17 11:34:22 -0400

When you see a Soldier, fellow NCO or even an Officer walking around out side with oit headgear on, you use you "general military authority" to correct the deficiency. The same principal applies "maybe a little more frightening". As an NCO I would say you have an obligation to address this behavior that is obviously contrary to Army and DOD regulations. If you need help and have allies (other NCOs in the unit) use them and together address this with the PSG. If this is not feasible, tell the PSG you are going to the 1SG. Move up the chain of command if you need to. Demonstrate you own zero tolerance policy against this kind of behavior. My 2 cents worth. Good luck.

Response by 1SG Jesse Perez made Aug 17 at 2016 11:35 AM

2016-08-17 11:35:47 -0400

This is NCO business and should be handled by his senior NCO's! Bring your concern to your 1SG if not satisfied with the outcome, notify your 1SG about speaking to CSM, use your chain!

Response by SMSgt Roy Dowdy made Aug 17 at 2016 11:37 AM

2016-08-17 11:37:45 -0400

Being that DA continually beats you over the head with all matters of MEO training, then it's absolutely within your lane of responsibility to take this matter up with the command structure! If anyone within the chain objects, then challenge them on the merits of DA's policy and have this individual burned on the altar of MEO!

Response by MSG Robert Lee made Aug 17 at 2016 12:01 PM

2016-08-17 12:01:31 -0400

Talk to your 1SG and CO on the open door policy. If they don't take any action than go see the IG. I do advise that you keeps notes on this.

Response by SSG Richard Gaytan made Aug 17 at 2016 12:39 PM

2016-08-17 12:39:49 -0400

Then you have a problem with your command! File an IG complaint for discrimnation with your command. Each command should have EEO Rep., because is part of your EER. For now you want to document the when!,where! and who said what! You might want to put in for EEO Rep. School and become an EEO Representative.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Aug 17 at 2016 2:36 PM

2016-08-17 14:36:59 -0400

I had an NCO which was very prejudice in my day, the 1SG, was a former drill instructor that was as good as it came. I went to him and told him my problem, well the PSG got his as written up and had to apologize to me. He then became a better NCO, since as he told me he did not know he was that prejudice, well he went up to become a great SGM, I made it to SFC, went to Drill Sergeant School, Advance Non-Commicionate Officer Academy and even Air Assault, all with their blessings. So we could talked about it several time, his daughter and my daughter were friends. So who knows give it a try.

Response by SSG Steve Finlan made Aug 17 at 2016 3:04 PM

2016-08-17 15:04:12 -0400

First of all, it's the military. Standards and discipline mean something. So, you are obligated to demonstrate some backbone as an NCO yourself and do something about this. Act with confidence, authority and respect. I would consider addressing it with the 1SG as others have recommended. Another possibility is to address it with another platoon sergeant, and give this out-of-line NCO the opportunity for some peer correction. Be tactful, be direct, and stick to the facts. Do not use touchy-feely language like "he hurt my feelings"; it is beside the point. "SFC X is using profane and racist language. It is affecting morale. As an NCO I feel I am obligated to address this matter" - something to that effect. Take the matter seriously. Take yourself seriously. Others will take you seriously. Professional, disciplined, responsible NCOs earn more than just stripes.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 3:14 PM

2016-08-17 15:14:10 -0400

I have a Fed-Tech position as the JFHQ VAC (SHARP). We work closely with the state SEEM (EO/EEO). Here is the correct path to resolve this sort of problem: If you don't feel comfortable approaching your PSG directly about this, go to the first member in your Chain of Command that you do trust. Most 1SGs or Commanders will deal with this sort of thing immediately. In the training we conduct for the 1SG/CDR course, we recommend that the CoC call their EO rep for guidance, but they are allowed to handle it in-house. If you don't get resolution, or if there is reprisal after you talk to the CoC, that is a second issue and will usually involve IG.

If your unit or BN does not have an EO rep, the CoC can always reach higher (BDE, DIV). AR 600-20, ch 6 covers EO.

Response by SSG Don Waggoner made Aug 17 at 2016 3:22 PM

2016-08-17 15:22:05 -0400

Whatever you do, make notes. Keep what was said, by whom, to whom, where, date and time of day. Copius notes. What the PSG said and what your chain of command said when you reported it. It is good advice if you can get others who witnessed this to also report it. Do not, whatever you do, let this go unreported.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Aug 17 at 2016 3:24 PM

2016-08-17 15:24:22 -0400

Do not let this go. The harm that this type of incident can do to your unit can not easily be counted. It seems that you've been following the COC appropriately so take it to the next step. I would strongly suggest that you keep every step that you take well documented. I noticed that you indicated that this is a reserve unit and that could add an additional burden for you if your COC are friendly off site. Best of luck!

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 17 at 2016 4:47 PM

2016-08-17 16:47:07 -0400

If you went through all of the steps listed above and are still looking for a solution you need to escalate. 1SGT would be a good start. Last call would be IG. Not having EP setup is the worst excuse I have ever heard.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Aug 17 at 2016 6:00 PM

2016-08-17 18:00:51 -0400

Contacting IG sounds like the best and SAFEST for you. It sounds like this guy has pissed off, offended, and hurt many so I am sure you can get a few to collaborate your story and keep you from any retaliation

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 7:14 PM

2016-08-17 19:14:43 -0400

This is simple; anything said to disrespect any of our Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, or Sailors has no has no place in our great military. Anyone using sexist or racial language has no place in our ranks.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 7:33 PM

2016-08-17 19:33:18 -0400

your eo rep even though not set up should have contact with higher, in this day and age a bn not having eo is highly questionable, especially considering the size of the unit as you state, consider ig or ci, this type of evironment is not condusive to training, leadership or trust, good luck

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 2:01 AM

2016-08-18 02:01:30 -0400

Go to your First sergeant and let him or her know the situation and ask how they want you to handle it. Its going to look better on you trying to handle it in house before going up the chain. Nothing pisses off a 1SG or SGTMAJ more then a complaint to EO or IG coming across their desk they knew nothing about and were unable to help resolve.

Response by SGT Kenneth Starks made Aug 18 at 2016 5:48 AM

2016-08-18 05:48:16 -0400

I understand the concern because that should not be tolerated in the military or any where else. I recommend the 1SG, SGM, and then the IG, in that order. letting each one no that if you are not satisfied with how they think it should be handled, you are considering taking it to the next level until it is resolved.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 6:08 AM

2016-08-18 06:08:13 -0400

I suggest you take it to your CoC and to the next level (Bde EO). The fact your Co and Bn lack EO assets is embarrassing, considering the importance of the program itself.

Response by MSG David King made Aug 18 at 2016 6:12 AM

2016-08-18 06:12:12 -0400

There is not really much you can do except deal with it. I for one am not easily offended and if you are than grow a thicker skin. You do not have to agree with what he says and if it is as bad as you say than take it higher but I suggest you keep it in the NCO chain. It takes all kinds to make up the greatest fighting force and one doesn't get to where he is without paying some dues. If he is truly a toxic leader then time will catch up with him. No one likes a bad leader but they like rats even less.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Aug 18 at 2016 7:21 AM

2016-08-18 07:21:06 -0400

Before you take this out of the company, or go to the IG, I suggest you take it to the 1st Sergeant. His job is to take care of the soldiers, including this idiot who---somehow became a platoon sergeant. If he doesn't do his job you may have to consider other action, but do so with thought to what the future results could be.
I had to take an incident to the IG---I lived to regret it. I wasn't touched, and the soldiers I wanted to protect-- were saved, but other good people lost their jobs because of what I did. There are some people in senior positions, who's talk a good line, but in the end are only interested in protecting their careers.

Response by SSG William Kimbrell made Aug 18 at 2016 8:40 AM

2016-08-18 08:40:16 -0400

Well I'm old school 1972-1978 last duty was as a Drill SGT at fort Jackson 75-78 . one NCO to another , Tell the person face to face they need to check their self. If He/She cant' deal with it a crash is on the way. Do not go down with it. Leadership requires bold moves.

Response by SSG Chad Simmons made Aug 18 at 2016 9:53 AM

2016-08-18 09:53:01 -0400

Use your chain of command, perhaps the plt leader needs to reign in his plt sgt, if this does not alter this action, then go EO and or IG

Response by SFC Joseph McCausland made Aug 18 at 2016 12:11 PM

2016-08-18 12:11:10 -0400

Sgt... Sometimes you have to have faith that "right" will win out over might.
There is no room in the military for such a person, especially someone who is in charge and has influence over others. The fact that this PSG is "unashamed" and blatantly arrogant about whom and how many people hear him is even more disturbing.
I would be surprise if the "First-Shirt" is not aware of this, usually "Top" knows everything that's going on in his/her Company.
Too often then not, such actions are pushed off as..." You know, that just how he is, it's just his way of motivating the troops".
I would try and get others, especially those who were the targets of his remarks to band together so you are not standing alone, when the "SHTF".
If you would like to have a "private" conversation, I would be happy to discuss further and perhaps offer some other suggestions.... [login to see]
B.O.L.

Response by SGT Bruce Miller made Aug 18 at 2016 3:15 PM

2016-08-18 15:15:43 -0400

Take it to the EO rep

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-08-18 15:50:09 -0400

Well, as harsh as this may sound (I don't mean to be harsh), I think you should take what you see and hear with a "grain of salt". You did not mention what was said specifically, but it apparently offended you. The military is full of people from all cultures and back grounds, and what is offensive to you, may not have been meant as offensive by them. I've heard quite a few female soldiers the could swear like sailors.

A soldier needs to be able to maintain their composure (military bearing) in difficult situations so they can make rational decisions and instill confidence in their subordinates during times of chaos. We serve to defend and protect our nation's rights, which unfortunately we as service members do not always get to exercise.

When I was serving (now retired) I learned to look some of the "high & mighty" folks right in the eye, give them a big smile and say "yes sergeant", "yes sir" or "yes ma'am". They got the message...and I kept my stripes.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:09 AM

2016-08-19 00:09:53 -0400

From the picture you paint....this is an extreme situation that cries for immediate attention. I'd suggest you ask to speak to the 1SG and CDR together on open door. 1st off....nothing between 1SG and CDR shouldn't be shared, but ultimately the CDR has authority and obligation to address issues as grave as you describe. By including the 1SG with the CDR with something you perceive as this important you are respecting them both...trusting their mutual wisdom and support. Typically, the 1SG (or even CSM) are delegated responsibility to place and ensure appropriate manning throughout the organization.... and his/her decision to assign/reassign personnel for reasons as you depict would be appropriate to get CDRs consent because of the unique situations....that would be an immediate action to defuse potential for reprisal while a concerned CDR directs a CDRs inquiry or gets an external EOL or EOR to conduct an investigation. It also permits CDR to get 1st hand info on situation affecting his unit, devise a plan, implement it and then notify his HHQs. You must stay composed, detached and not discuss, collaborate or corroborate episode with anyone other than CDR/1SG and investigator (think "tampering" or "coercion" that could skew investigation findings).

Response by SGM Debra Bradshaw made Aug 19 at 2016 4:45 AM

2016-08-19 04:45:50 -0400

Obviously this quote and Seo" needs to be taken to task. He does not represent the NCO corps if what you say is accurate. The first sergeant is your NCO chain. Sometimes you have to fall on the sword to do the right thing. Allow him the opportunity to correct this situation.

Response by SFC Arai Pooley made Aug 19 at 2016 8:44 AM

2016-08-19 08:44:42 -0400

Go talk to your 1SG. I noticed that you did not mention anything your PSG said. Why? You talked with your fellow NCOs, but failed to list their opinions as well. Do they not agree with your depiction of the situation? If not, perhaps you should reexamine what was stated, and why you were offended.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Aug 21 at 2016 2:24 AM

2016-08-21 02:24:55 -0400

This isnt the best advise you will get but back in the 1960's the answer was always found in the ville. Everyone goes to the ville some time. Just be preparedOh yeah, its good to have good buddies that are in the PMO,

Response by SGT Stanley Bass made Aug 21 at 2016 6:55 PM

2016-08-21 18:55:11 -0400

I had two situations early in my career. First duty station. I had another male solder (NCO) making sexual comments towards me. I thought if I ignored it, it would go away. Then I found that they were saying the same comments to another soldier in my barracks building. I knew then it was not going away. I took it to the 1SG. The 1SG knew I was good friends with the other young soldier, and did his due diligence to make sure I was not doing it just because my friend said it had happened. About a year later, as an e-3. I was talking to a fellow soldier at my next duty assignment, and an E-7 proceeded to slam both of our religious preferences. I took it to my immediate supervisor and then to the CO. Both instances were taken care of and no repercussions on myself or the other soldiers. Chain of command worked. Later in my career, approximately 11 years, another situation arose, however I was at a MEPS no real chain of command. I knew this far into my career this could turn and bite me, so I called the IG several times using hypothetical situations.

Response by SSG Dale London made Aug 21 at 2016 11:32 PM

2016-08-21 23:32:25 -0400

You unit not having an "EO Set Up" is a bullshit answer. Your EO rep is not doing his or her job and is trying to pawn you off.
Be that as it may -- I have an unorthodox suggestion. Talk to your chaplain. He has the ear of the CSM, the BN CDR and every CO, and 1SG in your immediate command. If he's worth a damn he can get the problem solved quickly and quietly without any drama and your name can be kept completely out of it.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 23 at 2016 4:56 PM

2016-08-23 16:56:26 -0400

This should stop with you. You don't spread it or you are as guilty as this dirt bag NCO that just spouted it. It shows true character to do the right thing even if it could possibly effect your career. It shouldn't as no self respecting NCO would ever jeopardize his or her own career by sabotaging yours as a punishment for you doing the right thing. This person needs some counseling from his boss. He should keep his opinion to himself and not color someone else's opinion of a person just because he doesn't like them. I was always told that when I couldn't handle a situation presented to me by a junior NCO that it was my responsibility to find someone who could. When a young NCO has issues like this he or she has trusted you to find a solution even if you can't address it personally. If I knew the situation, I would vouch for this NCO's honesty and character and the fact that he or she came to me first and I acted on the information.

Response by SFC Michael Ament made Aug 24 at 2016 3:44 AM

2016-08-24 03:44:18 -0400

I don't recall my PSG ever saying any kind words. Hell if that were the case I would have never got trained because we would of had a new PSG everyday.

Response by SGT Maze Marshall made Nov 8 at 2016 7:07 AM

2016-11-08 07:07:48 -0500

As an NCO you have a fiduciary responsibility to your piers and subordinates to rid the Army of the type NCO you've described in your post. The chain of command should always be followed however when a link in that chain is broken you must go to the next higher link. Good luck I have dealt with his kind before and it's a cancer that must be gotten rid of

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 9:58 AM

2016-11-08 09:58:52 -0500

As a former 1SG It should be brought to his attention, after all it is environment to control and who better to know the PSG than the 1SG. I feel if he is a real 1SG he should know how to handle this situation, a teaching opportunity led by the PSG or disaplinary action by the 1SG.

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Nov 8 at 2016 10:52 AM

2016-11-08 10:52:21 -0500

SGT my suggestion if he said such fowl things, especially in todays Army is to do the right thibg and report him. If you are correct you should not worry about your career path you should be the NCO that makes the stand on prinipals and honor.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 12:45 PM

2016-11-08 12:45:26 -0500

First use your chain food, talk to your 1st Shirt if nothing happens your CSM, and one main ingredient sworn statements from any witnesses. In other word supporting documents.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 12:46 PM

2016-11-08 12:46:18 -0500

Utilize the NCO Support Channel, that is what it is there for and if that doesn't work than go the officer route. The NCO Corps has a way of dealing with less than professional NCOs outside of UCMJ that, while no laws or regulations are broken, lets the offender knows that they screwed up mighty bad and that they are under a million power microscope. Way back in the "dark ages" I had a 1SG that used to tell the company NCOs that if something went down, he had better know about it long before the CO got wind of it and by the time he (the 1SG) found out about it, the problem had better be fixed or on its way to being fixed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 1:09 PM

2016-11-08 13:09:05 -0500

As an NCO, you are obligated to report anything that violates the NCO creed and our training. It is not an easy decision but that is part of being a good leader, not to mention that courage is one of our values. If you don't say anything then it is the same as agreeing.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 1:32 PM

2016-11-08 13:32:02 -0500

I read this and then reread this. Echoing in my head is "If not me, then who?" It is your duty as an NCO to report actions such as you've described. I understand how you as an E-5 can be intimidated by the idea of going against your Platoon Sergeant. But I ask you, if not you, then who? Who will stand up for others? When I was an E-3 my squad leader came to me to say he was going to put me in for promotion. I told him the my buddy Simon had more time in grade than I did and he was married. He told me "I ain't promoting his spic ass, you and me we are from Tennessee and I'm going to promote you." I may have enlisted in TN but I had only lived there for 3 years following my fathers retirement. So growing up in Germany mostly, and living on base with all different mixes of every race I was disgusted with what he said. But what could I do? I told Simon, and watched his head dip as if he had just been let down. He asked me not to say anything because he just got married and had a family to take care of. I decided to tell the 1SG, the 1SG told me I had done the right thing and that I need not worry about Simon getting lash back from our squad leader. I knew the 1SG had words with the Squad Leader but didn't know what was said for nearly 20 years. The 1st of the month came and Simon and I were called before the formation and both promoted to Specialist. Simon and I have been close friends for over 20 years now, my old 1SG while mentoring me during my time as a 1SG told me he told our Squad Leader if he so much as felt there was another Racist comment coming from him he'd kick him out of the Army and murder him. 1SG Dunn never got mad but I saw his anger build when I told him what happened. But in the end you have to ask yourself, are you wearing stripes or are you embodying your responsibility? Don't soldiers deserve professional leaders?

Response by TSgt James Carson made Nov 8 at 2016 1:54 PM

2016-11-08 13:54:33 -0500

Sounds like allot of people with too much time on their hands. NCOs' have to work well together to keep things running smoothly. It might be time to put in some transfers or busting down some of these people. Stay busy, the day goes faster and you won't have time to complain so much.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 8 at 2016 2:33 PM

2016-11-08 14:33:55 -0500

some times you have to remind folks there is a time and place to have those discussion...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 6:40 PM

2016-11-08 18:40:00 -0500

Find someone you can trust and tell them about the situation for their opinion on the problem. If that is not good enough go to the 1SG since he has an open door policy.

Response by SGM Debra Bradshaw made Nov 8 at 2016 6:54 PM

2016-11-08 18:54:00 -0500

Any NCO can "counsel" any other NCO. Do it in private for best results.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 7:42 PM

2016-11-08 19:42:37 -0500

I have seen this more in the last four years than any time in my 20 plus year career. Doing the right thing is hard and many times comes at a cost. I understand the spot your in however the younger enlisted will be directly and indirectly affected, and these young people are your future. Lead by example don't compromise your integrity

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 8 at 2016 7:44 PM

2016-11-08 19:44:22 -0500

Talk to a Company or Battalion level SNCO. Tell them your concerns about repercussions. It was my experience that the Senior SNCO's could handle this kind of problem in a bout 7 seconds and the whistleblower never faced so much as a sour look.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-11-08 19:56:52 -0500

As a recently retired 1SG I would state, as a 1SG, I damn well better have known about this poison in the water before I got back-doored with it. The problem may be the 1SG. You can't tell me your 1SG hasn't got wind of this $£!^-bag yet. If this PSG is spewing racist & sexist garbage then talking to the PSG will do you no good, because you can't cure stupid. If your chain blows you off then IG is there for a reason.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Nov 8 at 2016 8:43 PM

2016-11-08 20:43:32 -0500

As leadership goes, if we are not part of the solution then we are part of the problem. Any NCO making racist and sexist remark against any service member regardless of rank, let alone a fellow NCO in their own unit, should be subjected to an investigative inquiry. If nothing else an anonymous notification to the IG with enough detail to set the ball rolling could, if nothing else, put the NCO on notice that his/her comments are neither appreciated or acceptable. Unless everyone lies on his/her behalf, then that NCO's career could be in jeopardy rather than those who would tell the truth or report the illegal acts that he/she is committing by their speech. Everyone's silence on the issue is tacit approval for the behavior to continue.

Response by CSM Ralph Hernandez made Nov 9 at 2016 2:16 AM

2016-11-09 02:16:56 -0500

SGT Newberry, it's a shame that you are having to go through this. The first thing you need to do is to always use your Chain Of Command (COC) first. One thing that really made me mad when I was a 1SG was not giving me a chance to fix the probllem first. Like the MSG advised, go see the 1SG on his open door policy and tell him rhat there is a problem that you would like to discuss with him and the Commander present. Then let them know about the problem that you are having with your PLT SGT.Make sure that the Commander is present before discussing it. So that if there is a problem or retaliation then you can take to a higher COC.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Nov 9 at 2016 11:56 AM

2016-11-09 11:56:45 -0500

Nothing pisses off a 1SG or CMD more than being back doored by someone. Especially about a problem like this. I would suggest going to the 1SG and talk with him/her and if the 1SG doesn't help then go to IG.

Response by 1SG Ronald Perry made Nov 25 at 2016 10:51 AM

2016-11-25 10:51:32 -0500

As a retired 1SG, that is were you should take it. The first sergeant is one to take care of NCO problem.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 3 at 2018 7:39 AM

2018-07-03 07:39:19 -0400

If counseling doesn't help, give them an ultimatum.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2018 8:02 AM

2018-07-03 08:02:41 -0400

No question a job for the IG. When issue is not addressed locally and is absolutely unacceptable, it must be squashed not just for you but for the sake of others.

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jul 3 at 2018 9:05 AM

2018-07-03 09:05:47 -0400

I know it's probably really tough to do, and talking to your 1st Sergeant is a great idea, but I was wondering if you have told the individual what they said was completely out of line and uncalled for. I'm not sure how your particular situation/unit is but I have seen some disrespect among some peer NCOs and when brought to the 1st Sergeant they asked if they addressed it with the individual first and/or the individuals supervisor.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 3 at 2018 9:53 AM

2018-07-03 09:53:26 -0400

Disclaimer: I've been out for 25 years. We didn't have EO Reps. What I'm about to say may be complete BS, but I mean well.

There are three aspect to this situation that need to be resolved.

1) Military Leadership: Aside from the racist and sexist commentary, the chain of command should be presenting a united front. In a perfect military, from Corporal to General, up and down the line, one simply does not disparage each other in front of subordinates, nor does one cut the ground out from the others feet unless there is immediate danger to personnel and/or property. Unfortunately, no one has ever served in a perfect military.

2) Military professionalism: Racism and Sexism have no place in the military. Yep, people are racist. Yep people are sexist. Nothing anyone does or says will ever change that. No time to cry over spilled milk. But they need to keep that crap to themselves. It had best not manifest itself in word, action, or jest. It today's military in a healthy command it should be the kiss of death for someone to let their racism or sexism see the light of day.

3) Finally EO isn't set up in the unit or Battalion...?!?!? I know your NOT the one I should be asking... But WTF!?!?!? If they've been in the billet for more than 30 days, why do the Company Commander, First Sergeant, Battalion Commander, and Battalion Sergeant Major still hold those billets?

You aren't going to like what I'm about to say. Once you accepted the stripe, you accepted the responsibility. Either you are the solution, regardless of personal consequences; or you are someone who has no right to the loyalty and respect of the men and women entrusted to you care. They are literally supposed to step into situations where they may catch a bullet or a frag just because you say "go." But your hesitating because someone might make it a little hot for you personally. 30 years from now would you rather be sitting in the VFW bar getting thanked for standing up, or getting the stink eye because you and every other 'leader" sat down?

The trail is littered with the short careers of people who had the moral courage to stand up when things were wrong. There even more people who have "dents and dings" but still are carrying on. If you put your eyes down and just follow along, you get to spend your time staring at the asses of people you don't respect who are leading you and your unit down the wrong path. Or you can do the right thing. Discreetly call it out, if discrete doesn't work... call it out with a bull horn. If a bull horn doesn't work use a Arty Battalion TOT (ask a cannon cocker)

Oh ....and tell the EO rep to get off his ass and do his job.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 3 at 2018 12:06 PM

2018-07-03 12:06:30 -0400

As a sergeant, you have the duty to lead. This sometimes includes doing things that are uncomfortable and even risky to you career. You need to do what is right for your Soldiers and the Army. Go talk with the Sergeant in the chain of command above the offender. If that's the First Sergeant, then all the better. But, don't go half-prepared. Make notes of dates, times, and places for the offensive behavior. Also, who else was there. Be prepared to discuss why you can't or won't talk with the offender directly and to request the First Sergeant keep you name out of any discussion he or she might have with the offender. Be prepared for potential retribution. Keep notes of any conversations with the offender or actions he may take to inhibit your opportunities or personal threats.

Response by SGT Michael Thorin made Jul 4 at 2018 5:34 AM

2018-07-04 05:34:21 -0400

Your in a tough spot SSG Private RallyPoint Member, so here is a good starting place; something you already know.

**********The NCO Creed**********

No one is more professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, a leader of Soldiers. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as “The Backbone of the Army.” I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers, and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service, and my country; regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

Competence is my watch-word. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind: Accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer, I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers, and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers, and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Noncommissioned Officers, leaders!

Your PSG is definitely breaking that trust in his actions. He is undermining the chain of command in both directions, whether he realizes it or not.

Keep in mind that the NCO Creed also challenges other NCO’s to work towards keeping that system in place and operating smoothly.

My opinion and advice is to first approach him to give him the opportunity to hear you out. Maybe he will respond well, maybe he won’t. If his first impulse is to take the defensive and then go to an attack, simply listen to him and then ask permission to take it higher.

If he says no, then the open door policy is a legitimate next step.

This way, you have followed the chain all the way through.

Remember that sometimes doing the right thing is the hard thing, but it is the right thing nonetheless.

PVT Mark Brown,SP5 Mark Kuzinski,MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy,COL Mikel J. Burroughs,SPC Margaret Higgins,SPC Douglas Bolton,SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas,LTC Stephen F.,Maj Marty Hogan,Lt Col Charlie Brown,LTC Jeff Shearer

Response by MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy made Jul 4 at 2018 6:59 AM

2018-07-04 06:59:22 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, May I recommend COL Mikel J. Burroughs's Tuesday, July 3, 2018 Motivation Quote of the Day. I think it's on point, Sir. Defensor Fortis!

Burrough, M. (2018, Jul. 3) The Colonel's Motivational Quote of the Day! "You're Somebody!" Why Not? Don't sit back and wait for somebody else to solve an issue; you're somebody and a Leader, so be an "Eagle" and take Space Situational Awareness (SSA) actions. Retrieved from https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/tuesday-july-3-2018-the-colonel-s-motivational-quotes-of-the-day-victory-for-veterans?cid=5938275&page=3&urlhash=3764292#3764292

Tuesday, July 3, 2018 — The Colonel's Motivational Quotes of the Day! - Victory for Veterans |...

Tuesday, July 3, 2018 — The Colonel's Motivational Quotes of the Day! Good Morning All! Today is: "You're Somebody!" Why Not? "Dont' sit back and wait for somebody else to solve an issue; you're somebody and a Leader, so be an "eagle" and take action!" — COL (Ret) Mikel Burroughs The Quote in the Picture Today Reads: "I always wondered why somebody didn't do something about that; then I realized that I am somebody." — Unknown Author "Knowing...

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2018 1:28 PM

2018-07-04 13:28:40 -0400

Anyone filling the billet of your top enlisted should have or make time to listen to a SGT in his unit. Be professional and loyal. A free one FWIW- end/edit the inflammatory language about seniors. It matters.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2018 4:41 AM

2018-07-06 04:41:35 -0400

It’s been 3 year since I last posted this and I don’t frequent this site any longer, and people are still giving advice to it—which is a bit crazy to think about.

The end of this story is that I went to my 1SG (RIP) and CO at the time, and they buried it.
Nothing ever happened.
He made made E7... sadly enough...

But it taught me one lesson, no matter what I do in this career, I’ll always be better than him ... and he made rank, so I literally have nothing to worry about.

I made E6 in 6 years—this May.

Moving forward...

Thanks for all the insight.