What should I do if I know of an SM who intentionally hurt themselves to be sent home because their bf/gf was threatening to leave them?

2017-07-27T13:13:03-04:00

The person is in NG now I believe waiting for medical board. Said person shot themselves in the foot so they would not have to deploy. Now they are back home and their NG unit commander knows what happened but likes this person and refuses to report what truly happened. This person is going to start collecting disability money that he truly does not deserve along with an honorable discharge.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2017 1:19 PM

2017-07-27T13:19:57-04:00

Did said Soldier tell you they shot themselves in the foot? The reason why I ask this, is because if they did not, and you heard it through the "grapevine" and report it, then it's basically he said/she said scenario. An investigation would probably occur and the Soldier would probably have a hard time explaining how that happened. Also, what proof do you have to know that the unit Commander knows but is doing nithing?
BUT, if you were told directly by the Soldier in question that they shot intentionally shot themselves in the foot......

Situation #1) If you are hearing this not directly from the source, you can report it but tread carefully.

Situation #2) If you did hear this directly from the source, then you NEED to report this to higher authorities.

Response by SPC Rick Norris made Jul 27 at 2017 1:44 PM

2017-07-27T13:44:49-04:00

Illegal is illegal, and further, immoral is immoral. Why would you as a woman of honor, even ask the question? You know what to do.

Response by SGT David Petree made Jul 27 at 2017 2:00 PM

2017-07-27T14:00:54-04:00

First u MUST COVER your ASS. Your must be able to prove what went on !! 2 It has to go up the chain of command . You my be able to bypass the Co But it has to go to the Bn. or Regiment. You could go to the IG. But your ducks better be in gear. Because shit rolls down hill ,& your are at the bottom.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 27 at 2017 7:38 PM

2017-07-27T19:38:25-04:00

Unless you witnessed it occur, or the person admitted it you, this will be hard to prove.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 8:28 AM

2017-07-28T08:28:10-04:00

This'll be a commander's call, ultimately.
Were I in the CP, I would call into question of any self-inflicted gunshot wound, ND or not. This is a Soldier who was supposed to deploy... presumably armed and with ammo. That definitely should receive scrutiny.
Think of it like this. If this had happened in Afghanistan, do you think it would have been investigated? Of course it would. And if the findings were EITHER it was an ND or purposeful (it was certainly one of the two), this bubba is going to be in trouble and called on the carpet to see a GO.
Since the Soldier is Guard, there is next to no chance a reasonable commander would make a finding that this was incurred in the line of duty, so I think we can put to rest that he will get military or VA disability. Social Security is another matter.
As for characterization of discharge, that should come down to a finding (with the help of police) that it was or was not a SIGW. If it was, OTH. If it wasn't, depends on the commander.

As for what you should do, my advice would be to share on an informal basis with your CoC what you KNOW and with an asterisk, what you THINK. Be sure to clearly define which is which. Then your job is done here, unless you are questioned during a formal 15-6 investigation. If questioned as a part of that, only share what you KNOW on any sworn statement or testimony.
Don't MSU.
Don't assume.
Don't guess.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 28 at 2017 9:53 AM

2017-07-28T09:53:52-04:00

There should be an LOD.
If done IAW regulations an LOD should find the truth.
However, if there are no witnesses, and the SM recants previous statements made, an LOD would likely find no justification for holding the SM liable for the incident leading to UCMJ and some possible loss of benefits.

Heck even in the cases of suicide attempts i have personal experience with, the SM was not charged, never mind convicted..
Think of it this way.....ya have to be off a little mentally to shoot yourself, if your suffering from a mental health issue, then holding you accountable for the event is not likely to happen.

Response by SPC John Decker made Jul 29 at 2017 11:30 AM

2017-07-29T11:30:47-04:00

Self-inflicted injury aside, if the NG in general, fits the constitutional references to militia, as I believe it does, then it is unconstitutional to deploy the NG outside the United States. Constitutional reference Article 1 Section 8 Clause 15 Congress has the power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;--How is deploying the NATIONAL Guard overseas filling any of those roles?

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 29 at 2017 12:17 PM

2017-07-29T12:17:59-04:00

He's a gutless shit who's letting another Marile take his place in line. He's embarrassed himself beyond saving in the eyes of every Marine who deployed, it renders him useless. I hope he goes to jail, and dishonorable discharge. See if his GF likes that, good luck getting a job with that hanging over your head. He'd get thrown a few beatings too, I can't imagine anyone who could ever face his buddies or family again.

Response by LCpl Jim Pleace made Jul 29 at 2017 12:34 PM

2017-07-29T12:34:23-04:00

Unsat. They need to be dishonorably discharged, no pension

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 29 at 2017 12:35 PM

2017-07-29T12:35:56-04:00

Gutless shit who's letting another Marine take his place in line. Unforgivable rendering him useless. Jail him dishonorable discharge his ass, and see how his GF like that. Tough to get a job with that hanging over his head.

Response by SSgt Roe Stallings made Jul 29 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-07-29T13:36:53-04:00

Are their any witnesses? Did he tell someone he did this on purpose to prevent being deployed? If so, they need to step up and report it.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jul 29 at 2017 3:43 PM

2017-07-29T15:43:03-04:00

The time to speak up is when they do the Line of Duty investigation for a serious injury. If it is ruled the injury was Not in the Line if Duty due to negligence then the Disability would be disallowed.
If it is common knowledge that the soldier shot himself to avoid deployment that is chargeable under the UCMJ and should be reported to CID.

Response by SPC Michael Micallef made Jul 29 at 2017 9:52 PM

2017-07-29T21:52:05-04:00

Fix his foot, put him in jail for a while, then give him a dishonorable discharge.

Response by PO3 David Davis made Jul 29 at 2017 10:07 PM

2017-07-29T22:07:51-04:00

That is a rough one to deal with. I would question if he is mentally fit for duty to begin with.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 1:46 PM

2017-07-30T13:46:48-04:00

In BCT we had a two week leave 20 days in, Holiday leave, a PVT from my home town I knew in HS, shot himself in the foot and receive UCMJ and discharged. Same should happen with this snowflake.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Jul 31 at 2017 7:54 AM

2017-07-31T07:54:48-04:00

The truth always comes out. If you weren't there its probably a great idea to NOT make any type of accusations.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jan 8 at 2021 7:41 PM

2021-01-08T19:41:21-05:00

There should have been a Line of Duty investigation while in country, which it it was deliberately self inflicted would make the disability Not Line of Duty and disability compensation would be denied.
As SGT Petree says, document it, and if the CO is letting it slide they are subject to UCMJ action themselves.
In all likelihood you will need to find a new unit if you pursue this because the CO's career is over if substantiated.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 9 at 2021 9:54 AM

2021-01-09T09:54:39-05:00

Gather the facts you can. Hearsay or rumors are not facts. If you have teal facts, then go to the IG. In the case of a ArNG member and unit, I recommend the State IG. If you want to talk about non-factual information, I’d recommend your unit first sergeant. He or she should be able to help you sort through the BS.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2021 4:15 PM

2021-01-09T16:15:03-05:00

A couple years ago I did call his National Guard unit and gave them all the information I had. Whether they follow up with an investigation is totally up to them.
His uncle, my friend has nothing to do with him. I cannot blame him for that either. Its a shame that he has gotten away with being such a scam artist.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2021 4:29 PM

2021-01-09T16:29:32-05:00

Imagine being such a simp that you literally shoot yourself in the foot. Some people...

Yeah I'd definitely gather any concrete proof you have of him intentionally injuring himself and go to CID.

Response by SSG Lance Davidson made Jan 12 at 2021 12:31 PM

2021-01-12T12:31:55-05:00

I see a lot of comments here regarding the character of the individual here. There is no question that this action was that of someone who does not need to be in the service. However, take a look at the larger picture here. This individual decided to inflict self injury rather than loosing a significant other. That shows some mental disturbance and I would say merits a need for psychiatric care. If you have substantial belief that this was done intentionally then you should probably report it to a local mental health authority, as what would happen if this person was actually left by their significant other? I think that sometimes in the military we get too wrapped up in the character of individuals and lose sight on other warning signs which is why we have such a high rate of suicide with veterans. Having contempt for this persons actions are reasonable, but remember they still wear the uniform and we should always take care of our own. Let both the VA and Army worry about disability, it's the job of their medical professionals to determine that.

Response by PO2 Bill Kuiper made Jan 1 at 2022 4:29 PM

2022-01-01T16:29:58-05:00

Let it go. That P.O.S. has no business in the unit. Good riddance.