What should I consider an E-6 who takes an excess E-4 slot for a deployment?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 05:25:59 -0400

We had an E-6 join our company to get on this deployment. He has Prior 92Y experience but their primary is 11B. they're in HQ same as me and are pulling rank left and right coming into our lane on the supply side. Should I consider them an e6?

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Apr 9 at 2019 5:36 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 05:36:40 -0400

What duty position is the E6 in? If he is in an 11B slot he needs to stay in his lane.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2019 6:09 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 06:09:01 -0400

He's an E6. Whether he's in an E4 slot or not, he still holds the rank. I would pull him aside and talk to him behind closed doors about staying in his lane, for sure, but at the end of the day, he technically has rank over you.

Response by TSgt Carl Johnson made Apr 9 at 2019 6:09 AM

TSgt Carl Johnson — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 06:09:48 -0400

During Desert Storm, I was assigned to lead patrols on the perimeter of our camp due to previous training and experience. I was an E-5, yet would sometimes get E-6, and even E-7, personnel detailed to me. I respected their rank, of course, but they always let the rest of the patrol know that I was in charge, and that they would obey any lawful orders I gave. This is exactly how your E-6 should be acting. Good leaders are good followers, too.
I would suggest that you bring the matter up to your actual chain of command, as his behavior is likely causing disruptions to the work flow, as well as creating friction in the unit. I wouldn't confront him directly about it, if I were you, as it could lead to more problems.
Personally, if I were filling an E-4 slot as an E-6, I would enjoy the vacation from the normal responsibilities of a staff NCO and just do my job and chill.

Response by PO2 Hauke Powers made Apr 9 at 2019 8:09 AM

PO2 Hauke Powers — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:09:47 -0400

Remember, the job has nothing to do with the rank...even officers take out the garbage once in a while...does that make them E-1 ?? NO !!!! Be thankful you have someone of mid-grade NCO status working with you...BUT, if the NCO starts to "jump bones", quickly clear this up with you immediate senior officer...God bless ya !!!

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Apr 9 at 2019 8:53 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:53:32 -0400

You should consider him a SSG, and treat him accordingly. With that being said, let him know tactfully that he's out of his lane regarding the supply operations. If he continues to intervene, let your NCO support chain know of his involvement, and let them resolve the issue.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2019 8:56 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 08:56:43 -0400

I think that he is still a SSG and should be treated like one.
If he is poaching out of his lane in HQs, that is First Sergeant business to fix.
I can see scenarios where command wants this guy to check in on supply now and then to make sure you guys are on track and doing things the right way.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Apr 9 at 2019 9:09 AM

SSG Brian G. — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:09:14 -0400

He is an SSG (E-6). He is a body in a spot that was needed. He still retains his rank as an E-6 however he is not the one in charge of the detail, section, squad etc. It sounds like the SSG needs to be taken to task and reminded that while he has the rank of E-6, he is not in charge and while his experience is valued, he has a task and this is not it. This should be done with a counseling statement by whomever IS in charge of him.

Additionally, if the problem persists then you should seek out your platoon Sergeant or First Sergeant and apprise of same. Use your chain of command. This E-6 is disrupting the orderly flow, good discipline and moral of your unit it sounds like and needs to be reminded of why he is there, what his duties are etc., most ricky tick.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 9 at 2019 9:56 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:56:12 -0400

A SSG is a SSG is a SSG. So yes you consider them a SSG. I put a 12C SSG in the S1 for a time because the section lacked discipline and we were short, the admin SGT was technically savvy and did well at the Admin tasks but was overwhelmed by the additional leadership tasks required to run the shop (normally an SFC).

What I noticed with our NG round out unit in 03 was that in some cases the "go to guy " wasn't the guy with the most stripes and that the unit took folks from all over to bring it up to strength and folks were working in MOSs and slotted in grades that they hadn't been in, in years just to fill the unit. They did a great job for us but it took a minute to figure out who was who.

Point is; regardless where the SSG is slotted on the MTOE if they have the MOS as a secondary or third the Commander and 1SG can utilize them where they need them. Even if they don't have the MOS but there is a need that they best fill they can go where the Commander and 1SG need them.

Response by CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML made Apr 9 at 2019 12:25 PM

CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 12:25:40 -0400

CSM Richard StCyr pretty much hit the nail on the head. Regardless of the MOS, the rank is still the rank. That does not mean that is the best person for the job. I understand you may not like this but it is the challenge of dealing with difficult people. This is a leadership challenge for you to learn how to earn the respect of someone who outranks you, even if you are upset with them. That aside, when that SSG is acting as a 92Y and if that is not his lane; smile, be professional, and move out. Your best authority comes from the Army Regulations (AR 710-2) and DA Pam (710-2-1) and when an order violates that, point it out and move out! You appear to be frustrated and looking for a way to negate the leader that was placed above you. My career was 30 years and at least 27 of them I had people that outranked me that were in some cases, clueless. Regardless of the "power" I may have had, those people still had the "Authority". Respect, Respect, Respect, PERIOD. Learn from the experience and just don't repeat bad behavior. I get it, easier said than done. Been there. SGT McMasters, Deep Breath...Roger that... Move out!!! Airborne, All The Way!!!

Chief

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Apr 9 at 2019 1:15 PM

SGT Robert Wager — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 13:15:17 -0400

There are two types of authority, command authority and general military authority.

The situation I think you are finding yourself in is a SSG that was out in charge of a HQ section in a HHC. If your 1SG has out him in charge he has command authority over you period. He can prioritize your work, give you lawful orders on when and where to be and what you are to do when you are there.

If he is an NCO in another section a medic NCO in the same company for example he has general military authority over you, he can make on the spot uniform corrections maintain good order and discipline just like any other member of the armed forces that outranks you. It sounds to me like you need to discuss with the first member of your NCO support channel above you and find out who you report to and who is responsible for your day to day supervision. A sergeant should never ask “do I treat a SSG as a SSG?”

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 9 at 2019 2:41 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 14:41:30 -0400

He is an E6. He did not receive a downgrade. He cannot be made subordinate, he can be told to follow your guidance as the SME. You are both NCOs and should be able to work this out with no issue. Thank you for your service.

Response by SFC Walt "Butch" Deal made Apr 9 at 2019 4:25 PM

SFC Walt "Butch" Deal — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 16:25:03 -0400

There are a couple problems with this. First, E-6 is a pay grade, not a rank. The persons rank is SSG. No matter what, they are still a SSG.

Response by SGT John Creager made Apr 9 at 2019 9:55 PM

SGT John Creager — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 21:55:38 -0400

I had a SSG transfer in, we both were not in our MOS. I had been in the section for two years. The new SSG came in and without introduction decided upon himself to change things just be cause of his rank. Well you either rub them the wrong way go to the CSM who we worked for or let him fall on his face. I went to CSM and explained, my position. Well the SSG had not been told to take charge he had been told to stick close and learn. CSM and I were pretty close, close as we could be. He then said let the SSG fail. So I made notes a lot of notes.

Sometimes you either rub them the wrong way or allow them to fail on their own. Either way make notes!

Response by SPC Joshua Ulch made Apr 12 at 2019 9:59 AM

SPC Joshua Ulch — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 09:59:47 -0400

Those being in charge are rank or position. If your position is higher, than he’s your subordinate otherwise, follow your military bearing.

Response by SFC Lloyd Bruner made Jul 7 at 2019 8:33 PM

SFC Lloyd Bruner — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 20:33:09 -0400

Yes. It called rank. Just do your job and remember the mission. You’ll be justly awarded.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Harper made Sep 9 at 2019 11:35 PM

SSG Jeffrey Harper — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 23:35:32 -0400

First of all experience and holding the MOS is 2 totally different things. Anyone can be s HR holder but not everyone is a 92Y. Let your commander know what’s going on and have that E-6 stay in his lane

Response by SSG Jeffrey Harper made Sep 9 at 2019 11:44 PM

SSG Jeffrey Harper — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 23:44:20 -0400

I was in line infantry units and at times had E-7 try and bully my with their rank to get special favors dealing with supply and HR’s. I would politely hold my ground and refered them to the commander. Supply is commander run and only personel assign or authorize should be into supply business. I had a 1sg that constantly would pull my guys for details or pull them to help out another platoon and I had to go to the commander about it cause it was causing us to miss important deadlines. Use tact and talk to the commander about it

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 23 at 2022 6:44 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 06:44:14 -0500

If they are wearing the rank, that is what they are. Your leadership has to clarify the individuals role in your area. If he is asserting authority, it may have been determined. In any case treat them with the appropriate respect and inquire as to there role.

It happens frequently that a trusted NCO is put skmewhere to correct leadership issue, the management, training, mentoring and discipline of a section, office or platoon. They do not need to know the MOS to lead it.