What's on thoughts on my saying a big problem with laws and policies is that they're not written for the average person to easily comprehend?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 23:20:43 -0400

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Aug 6 at 2017 11:51 PM

LT Brad McInnis — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 23:51:15 -0400

You can't write them so that the average person can read them, because then lawyers wouldn't be needed. Not that they are needed now...

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 7 at 2017 12:16 AM

Maj John Bell — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 00:16:00 -0400

I really want to agree, but unfortunately, plain language English is like 1980's USMC 1911A1 .45 caliber pistol. So sloppy, you don't know if it's going to misfire, function as designed, or empty the entire clip on one trigger pull.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Aug 7 at 2017 12:24 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 00:24:08 -0400

It depends on the law, really.

And quite honestly, people ought to be a bit more well grounded on how the laws are written and why they're written that way.

The problem with codifying laws is that they have to be clear on many different levels in order to understand what the laws are and how they're intended to be applied. This is important because in the law, if it's not written down or clear, it's difficult, if not impossible, to charge someone with a violation of the law because it can't be said that the written law actually applies to the person's circumstance.

For example, many terms used within any given law may require defining, so that it's clearly understood what is mean when certain words or phrases are used. This is because what you and I understand a certain word or phrase to mean in our every day usage does not necessarily mean the same thing when used in the context of the law.

It may sound silly, but the reason for this, and many other aspects of a written law, is because in a court of law, a person's life, liberty, and property may hang in the balance on these very things.

I don't know the equivalent term for "sea-lawyer" in the other branches, but a sea-lawyer is typically a sailor (usually a junior one in my experience) who has a self-proclaimed expertise on the rules, regulations, and laws within the Navy. What he really has is a superficial knowledge of these things and a whole ton of personal bias on how he thinks things SHOULD be as opposed to how they actually ARE. A sea-lawyer will nitpick a rule/regulation/law to death.

So, as an exercise, take a look at a law or policy you think is not easy to comprehend and then create your own simplified version of it. Then present it to a group of your buddy's for a critique, with the intent that they're going to nitpick this thing for every weak point they can find. Then modify your law to fix all those weak points.

Pretty soon you'll start seeing your simple law start to get more complex.

This is why we have specialists called "attorneys" when matters concerning the law become really important. We don't always need attorneys for the same reason we don't always need mechanics for our vehicles. Usually our knowledge of how our vehicles (and the law) is quite sufficient for our day-to-day lives. But when things need closer attention, we hire a mechanic/attorney to attend to the matters that need attending.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 7 at 2017 1:55 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 01:55:17 -0400

Many legal and legislative terms mean something entirely different than everyday language. A simple example would be "excuse" vs. "recuse". In the former, I'd excuse myself from something. It's pretty generic and arguable on whether or not I can. Recuse, on the other hand, is explicit. It means due to a conflict of interest, I must excuse myself from this action. It can be considered a small subset of "excuse". The legal words we seldom use have a very specific meaning, have typically been around courthouses for years, and in themselves have a common meaning. If you want to get mind boggling, just consider medicine. You got something wrong with your belly, doesn't tell you much. Medical terminology is very specific. Take any other profession with its own specific word sets. If you're not a physicist, you shouldn't get upset that you don't know quarks, quantum mechanics, string theory; you name it. Don't worry. The vast population out there doesn't know what a POG or REMF is. Enjoy your superiority.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Aug 7 at 2017 7:05 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 07:05:23 -0400

Or, we could try to educate people so they can read and comprehend their native language. Laws do have to be specifically written to try to by crystal clear because one day the law will be involved in a legal case and clarity will be key. That is why we get laws written the way they are.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2017 9:47 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 09:47:48 -0400

The problem is that the level of English comprehension has denigrated in this country. Words have legal meanings, if the laws were written so the average person with a 6th grade reading level could comprehend them, one of two things would happen, either the laws would be in huge volumes and/or it would take a court to determine the legal meaning of each component of the law.

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 7 at 2017 10:10 AM

SPC David S. — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 10:10:54 -0400

Have your lawyer contact my layer for a response

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Aug 7 at 2017 1:28 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 13:28:24 -0400

What's on thoughts on my saying a big problem with laws and policies is that they're not written for the average person to easily comprehend? That is the simplest question I have seen here. The answer is try comprehending the Internal Revenue Code I served in the Treasury Department and most of the career people I knew were either alcoholics or retired on what we called “crazy pensions” because the Internal Revenue Code either drove them to drink or to a rubber room!!!

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Aug 7 at 2017 1:28 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 13:28:46 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2017 7:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 07:56:24 -0400

You have to look at the fact that some of these laws are pushing 100 years old if not more and what is comprehended by the average person then is not now. I hate to say it but society has slipped. I have a whole list of reasons I could list as to why I think this is happening but at the end of the day it falls on the vicious cycle of either someone not taking the time to understand them or caring enough to follow them.