What is your opinion of Biden taking classified documents after he left the Vice-Presidency?

2023-01-11T01:48:19-05:00

As of 1/10/23, we don’t have the complete story on the nature and classification of the documents, nor do we know the number of documents. Apparently, they were discovered in November and turned over immediately. How much difference does that make between the actions of him and Trump? Legally, the statute of limitations has passed, so what repercussions could Biden face, if any?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2023 2:21 AM

2023-01-11T02:21:33-05:00

I don't know the circumstances for president biden, but President Obama also had classified material an unsecured warehouse. But it looks like Democrats get the Hillary Clinton Teflon treatment while President Trump gets a police raid.

I loved hearing president Biden today talking about how irresponsible president Trump was in his sound bite on a recent 60 minutes episode. I'm glad that attorney general Garland and president Biden have to eat crow now because now it's going to be harder to prosecute president Trump if you give a pass to President Biden because he was vice president then.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2023 2:24 AM

2023-01-11T02:24:07-05:00

Notice in the past that Hillary Clinton and her secretary Huma abedin both had classified material on their laptop or server. Hillary Clinton destroyed her server after a subpoena and the FBI director didn't prosecute her. Now you find out years later how the FBI worked with other deep state operatives to sabotage president Trump and on censoring Republican or conservative ideas working together with facebook, Twitter and youtube. Thank goodness for Elon Musk bringing this out in the open and Democrats can't just say that Republicans are exclusive in the threat to democracy. Now we find out that Chuck Schumer and others worked with the FBI and the defense intelligence agency to censor critics. Even the White House is now being accused of censoring or trying to censor Tucker Carlson and some other Fox news reporter.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2023 2:38 AM

2023-01-11T02:38:00-05:00

Biden will walk like HRC did.
The AG won't prosecute people protesting and harassing SCOTUS judges ( a felony) so I do expect Garland to bless off on Biden's Security Breach.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jan 11 at 2023 4:33 AM

2023-01-11T04:33:09-05:00

Having worked with TS and beyond materials when I was active, I never did agree with ANY President being able to just wave their hand and declassify a document. I always thought the information was restricted for valid reasons and should not be so easily downgraded just because some former elected official decided they wanted to keep it.

What REALLY frustrates me is the two-tier (in)justice system we have in this country today. I'm really fed up with the selective persecution of certain individuals just because of party affiliation and the blatant ignoring of wrong doing for others. Either prosecute across the board or don't bother at all. Personally, I would rather see ALL infractions vigorously prosecuted. It's past time the "elites" were reminded of who they are supposed to be working for.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Jan 11 at 2023 6:38 AM

2023-01-11T06:38:30-05:00

Investigation still needs to be done. Biden has NOT claimed declassification by thinking about it and his lawyers turned them over to the National Archives after discovery.

https://www.politicususa.com/2023/01/09/rachel-maddow-explains-why-the-biden-classified-documents-are-a-dud.html

Rachel Maddow Explains Why The Biden Classified Documents Are A Dud

Rachel Maddow contrasted how Trump each handled the news of classified documents in their offices to show why the Biden story is nothing.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 11 at 2023 10:45 AM

2023-01-11T10:45:20-05:00

Investigate and if found guilty of mishandling classified the go to jail just like you and I would.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jan 11 at 2023 2:39 PM

2023-01-11T14:39:27-05:00

Who said he took them? As far as I know, there's an investigation going on to find out how they got there.

From me, it sounds like the right procedures were followed. Someone found unsecured classified. They reported it. It was turned over. The proper authorities are investigating. But I saw nothing that said Biden had control of them or took them. If he did, then whatever statutes apply he should be punished under.

This is in no way the same as Trump stealing classified information, storing it in his home, probably selling some of it and then trying to say he declassified it because he "thought" it. They are two different security incidents.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jan 11 at 2023 2:44 PM

2023-01-11T14:44:52-05:00

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/08/hillary-clintons-claim-that-zero-emails-were-marked-classified/

hillary-clintons-claim-that-zero-emails-were-marked-classified

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Jan 11 at 2023 6:11 PM

2023-01-11T18:11:14-05:00

We don't have a complete story, as we still don't have for Trump. Why did either of them feel the need to take these docs? That I do not understand, nor do I recommend doing it.

Also, the claim is that they reported finding them immediately, but have you considered that this might not be true? After all, how do we know it's true? But the larger questions is, how could they be lost, forgotten, pick a word for roughly 6 years? By the way, statute of limitations for what? At a minimum, classified data is marked at least 10 years upon becoming classified but they actually don't come under declassification review until after 20 years. These documents fall well within both periods, in which they are conceivably still classified. As for declassification, Biden does not have that authority UNLESS he was the one who classified the information as a classification authority. But we do not know this because even he claims he doesn't know what files were found. We also don't know if an actual crime was committed or whether this is simply negligence. So simply stating the statute of limitations is over makes zero sense. What people like me want to see is an apolitical, transparent, and single standard approach to these incidents. President Trump was cooperating with the National Archives, while simultaneously challenging their interpretation of the rules and law. Instead of allowing the issue to play out, the DOJ jumped the gun (right before an election no less) and raided his home. Why? The documents were protected, and they weren't going anywhere. But there is a clear and evident perception of disdain for Trump within the DOJ and that's a problem which requires more care to addressing the perception. I don't even like Trump and yet I find this highly unnecessary, as much of the BS he endured through his term in office. I get that in many cases he brought it on himself, but that is no excuse for apolitical agencies in our government to allow bias and politics to surface.

There are certainly differences between Trump and Biden and one could easily argue both sides and make claims of which is worse. Here's what I see:

1. Trump legally moved classified files from the White House to his residence in FL. That residence was a secure location, as any Presidential residence would be during and after their term. In fact, Secret Service even upgraded the security at his FL home after he left office. We still do not know the full details of Biden's files, how they were stored, how they got there, and whether they were secure or not. But from the current reporting it does not look good and in fact, compared to Trump's files, were likely much less secure (there are two locations by the way).
2. The amount and content seemingly appears that Trump might have had some more sensitive materials, but we don't know for sure. However, should Biden's cross the line of TS/SCI, it hardly matters comparably.
3. As I mentioned above the President is the highest level of classification authority in the Federal Executive branch of the federal government. He is allowed to declassify information as he sees fit (to include those of the depts and agencies who work for him) and there are no written policies or standards on the process for the actual President. That said, I don't like the idea of Trump simply "willing it," but without a law or a rule which includes the President, there really isn't anything one can do. The Vice President, on the other hand, is a whole different matter. While they too have classification authority, the only declassification authority they have is for information THEY classify. Regardless, Biden has made no claims that he declassified the files found at two locations thus far (nor have his lawyers). Now, I don't condone Trump's insistence he declassified all the files he retained, and I am concerned specific sources and methods could be compromised if they were released to the public. But they weren't Trump is obviously attempting to use a loophole here which can certainly be criticized, but ultimately, it's kind of a moot point if the files he retained were not compromised. And again, he has not offered a good logical reason to the American people for retaining the files. I would like both to present those reasons. Otherwise, both acted highly irresponsibly, and neither should ever hold the office of President as far as I'm concerned.
4. As for returning the files to the National Archives, Trump was certainly attempting to challenge this requirement. I have no idea why nor do I recommend doing so without any good reasons (which have yet to be articulated by both). Biden simply forgot they were there, so I will let you decide which is worse.

I'm sure I could come up with more comparisons, but that's it for now. Would you like to compare these incidents with Sec Clinton's? I would argue that one was the worst of all.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jan 12 at 2023 12:37 PM

2023-01-12T12:37:38-05:00

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
Posted 1 d ago
Investigate and if found guilty of mishandling classified the go to jail just like you and I would.

Scott - Everyone who mishandles classified doesn't go to jail. There's a difference between being negligent with classified or deliberately stealing classified. Yes I know as a security manager I've seen all kinds of security incidents.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jan 12 at 2023 12:47 PM

2023-01-12T12:47:21-05:00

As a security manager and former Special Security Representative, I think people would be surprised by the amount of security incidents and violations that happen on a daily basis within the DoD and government agencies - and often times by senior officials. It's not right - but I have had to deal with senior officers who should know better mishandling classified. I expect it from a brand new private - but I've seen Majors, Colonels...doing the dumbest shit with classified. I don't know why we don't train people better on handling classified or people just don't listen. But I've seen it at BN to Corps levels. I've heard about it at the agencies. It's just mind boggling how often people mishandle it and even worse when I've seen other intel professionals do it. Just putting that out there how little people seem to know about classification authorities, handling classified, couriering it, etc.

Response by SFC William McMillian made Jan 16 at 2023 3:47 PM

2023-01-16T15:47:06-05:00

If President Biden had the documents as recently as a few days ago, how could the statute of limitations have passed? Also, the rules for a former president and a former vice president are different in relation to classified documents. The media seems to be attempting to place blame for the response to the act, rather the act of taking classified documents unlawfully.

Response by SPC Steven Cook made Jan 19 at 2023 12:13 PM

2023-01-19T12:13:04-05:00

Trump and Biden both took documents. Trump took a hundred to bidens 20. Trump denied, refused and was a total that waffle about it. Biden on the other hand turned them right in. I say give Trump some jail and Biden probation.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jan 21 at 2023 4:51 PM

2023-01-21T16:51:53-05:00

Why is it classified? Cause i don't need to know... it's not going to help me or my daily tasks.... now that Biden has been down to be reckless, that's a whole nother story

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2023 10:46 PM

2023-01-21T22:46:07-05:00

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Jan 22 at 2023 11:11 AM

2023-01-22T11:11:42-05:00

After a person that has been charged and convicted in court, then I called him guilty. Before that I called him under suspicion. In both cases, Trump and Biden. It looks like there are legitimate questions to ask. Therefore there should be legitimate investigations. I am very much in favor of the special prosecutor for these gentlemen and I hope is that there will be a fair and honest investigation in both cases. It saddens me that so many people prejudge. Phrases like 50 years of crimes do not belong in a discussion about whether or not this particular person did this particular thing and should be punished for it. Trump and his group just got reprimanded and fined for filing frivolous lawsuits. That does not mean that every lawsuit Trump filed was frivolous, it means that some of them were. Bidens children and extended family may or may not have done things that are criminal, but taking advantage of the family name is not a crime. The same can be said of Trump and his family and his family name. There are many a movie star that kids use the name to get a chance, some made it, some did not, but using the name itself is not a crime. In my opinion finding classified documents after so many years raises a lot of red flags, but that does not prove a crime. It provides justification for investigation.

Response by SFC Marcia Smith made Jan 22 at 2023 12:05 PM

2023-01-22T12:05:05-05:00

I think Biden is too old to understand his own actions.

Response by CW3 Davis Newman made Jan 22 at 2023 1:17 PM

2023-01-22T13:17:32-05:00

First, I would like to know the subject matter of the documents. Then an explanation of why they were needed. Could not have been all that necessary if they have been lost and forgotten like an old sock. Is there a record of them being there or did “someone” just xerox what they wanted and take them home? Congress needs to write/update laws concerning not just the President, But the VP, and all the cabinet members, advisors and staff that come and go with each administration. I do not see why someone who no longer works for the government needs classified documents at home. If they do, they should write a justification, check them out like a library book, store them in a known location with proper security, have an annual inventory and return them when finished. Sort of like we have to do.

Response by MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow made Jan 22 at 2023 2:06 PM

2023-01-22T14:06:53-05:00

If Biden or Trump had classified documents under their control at a civilian facility, they need to be fined, jailed, or both. Just because they are elected officials doesn't give them the right to keep classified documents. Have them declassified, and then they can keep them, and not by themselves.

Response by PO3 Jeffrey Hoover made Jan 22 at 2023 2:35 PM

2023-01-22T14:35:00-05:00

Biden should have to endure a full scale investigation into his corruption and if he has been compromised

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 22 at 2023 2:58 PM

2023-01-22T14:58:55-05:00

SFC Kathy Pepper ““As of (Sunday), 1/22/2023 we don’t have the complete story ———-“”. I anxiously await Monday’s additional revelations!

Response by SP5 Richard Barton made Jan 22 at 2023 6:22 PM

2023-01-22T18:22:50-05:00

There are so many issues with Biden that should be addressed. His oil and border and Covid policies border on treason. He has demonstrated no concern for American citizens. Rather his interest is in bowing down to a science and a one-world agenda. I don’t understand how he is still in office and no one seems to be able to explain it. Finally, Presidents Carter and Ford are not the worse Presidents in history.

And now his hypocrisy about the documents has me livid. He, like most politicians, seems to be above the law and there is nothing I can do except watch it.

My opinion of Biden is not good for him. It might be time to have him move to Bulgaria or Guam. At least Trump fought for our economy and didn’t bow to anyone. Why do you care what I think when you are pledged to obey his hogwash?

Response by SPC Steven Cook made Jan 22 at 2023 6:44 PM

2023-01-22T18:44:15-05:00

Trump denied, refused and lied. Big difference.

Response by SSgt Gary White made Jan 22 at 2023 8:43 PM

2023-01-22T20:43:44-05:00

If they have the clearance to posses them and we’re not required to return them I see no issue. The problem is that there is no process in place to account for all classified documents. I am Illini to bet there are some classified documents in my old work papers from back in the day. I’ve never even looked at them after I retired.

Response by SSG Adrian Walker made Jan 23 at 2023 2:58 AM

2023-01-23T02:58:44-05:00

He was never prosecuted for weaponizing the FBI or shutting down the Keystone XL pipeline, which is the only reason why the United states has now become energy dependent on foreign oil and fuel prices are insane. So why start now. My advice is if you haven't begun to get silver and gold, start now before it's too late.

Response by SP5 Richard Barton made Jan 23 at 2023 3:13 AM

2023-01-23T03:13:49-05:00

You are absolutely correct. We don't have the complete story. However, since he became President, it would seem he has made sure we don't know anything that is going on. I doubt he will see any repercussions. Meanwhile,Trump has his integrity damaged for legal documents he was permitted to retain.

Biden may be the first President in history to pardon himself. It's beginning to come to light that Trump had nothing to do with the Jan 6 riots. Please understand. I am not all or nothing for Trump. But I no injustice when I see it. And I know Mr. Trump never put up with any crap from other countries. He sure didn't subscribe to the WHO or UN. I liked that about him. I hope we get another President with his Moxy.

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made Jan 23 at 2023 10:24 AM

2023-01-23T10:24:29-05:00

My opinion is that after revelations of the current President mishandling classified information as well as the previous one along with a Secretary of State who conducted government business on a private email server, a former government official being prosecuted (Sandy Berger) for stealing classified material from the National Archives, that we have a HUGE problem with very senior government officials playing fast and loose with our National Security in pursuit of protecting their own political backsides. We need to hold them equally as accountable as the Navy E-5 who went to the Brig for taking a photo in a restricted area. It doesn't matter "how many", a single document mishandled is sufficient to establish an offense was committed. They also need to ensure that everyone is properly trained and held accountable to the rules of proper handling of classified information.

Response by Sgt Teresa Young-Martin made Jan 23 at 2023 10:38 AM

2023-01-23T10:38:49-05:00

This is awake call, how many more government officials and employees are going unchecked? Is anyone responsible for tracking documents?

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Jan 23 at 2023 12:00 PM

2023-01-23T12:00:11-05:00

Weeell. My question is how many other Presidents did the same thing? How about Bush, Clinton, and Obama? Steven Holt's answer is on point. My feelings are: [1] Nothing will be done to punish the violators. [2] It is political ammo only. [3] If I had done it, I would have any apartment in Leavenworth, KS. [4] However, the violators can watch the ocean in Delaware or play golf in Florida.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Jan 23 at 2023 1:36 PM

2023-01-23T13:36:12-05:00

Ya' Short and sweet. We got a bunch of traitorous assholes here.

Response by SSG John Justin made Jan 23 at 2023 3:38 PM

2023-01-23T15:38:55-05:00

We have enough information to know the documents where there and the documents should not have been there. The problem is bigger than Biden and his handling of classified materials. I remember several instances in the past where politicians were given access to classified information and than leaked them and later complained because information was being denied them. I think when it comes to lack of security and leaks one of our weakest links are elected officials.
Biden has earned and Deserves all the heat he is getting on this issue. Presidents and Vice-Presidents may need to see classified materials but there is no need to hoard or lose track of them.
I hope Biden learns from this mistake and along with our legislators makes constructive moves to stop this threat to our country.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Jan 24 at 2023 9:32 AM

2023-01-24T09:32:12-05:00

All one has to ask if any of us were in the same situation what would happen to us . We all know the answer to that question . In the old days while in the Army there was a saying "Rank has it's prevledge " .

Response by FN David Shaffer made Jan 24 at 2023 11:08 AM

2023-01-24T11:08:31-05:00

This used to be about veterans, now its become yet another platform for disinformation and crap from the edges of the Internet. When I want to read hate I'll subscribe to Fox News and Bing News. I don't give a crap about who you love or hate, this was not the forum I signed into. Good bye.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jan 24 at 2023 12:09 PM

2023-01-24T12:09:31-05:00

I would be willing to bet there are service members in the brig/prison fro mishandling documents as we speak. They are being held accountable for their actions, but if they are paying attention they will soon have the grounds to have their convictions turned over. The current staff of GOs seem to be perfectly willing to conform to the new standard dictated by the lar left minority.
This is the slippery slope we are on. We have been teaching the next generation that they will not be held accountable for anything. Inclusion and equity have replaced trying harder to be the best at something. When schools withhold merit awards that would help with college admissions and scholarships to keep the scales balanced between demographics it teaches a very wrong message. The problem is that is being normalized by the media. Most networks refuse to tell these stories because doing so would put them at risk of being cancelled.
My fellow Americans, we are fucked. It's only a matter of time before the police, the military and any form of structure are removed from our society.

Response by SSG Don Smith made Jan 25 at 2023 11:39 AM

2023-01-25T11:39:54-05:00

In my opinion, the problem is not which president or vice-president took home classified documents and didn't return one for for for whatever reason - probably all have at one time or another.

The problem lies in how classified documents are accounted for. It appears that even a simple library book has more accountability than a classified document.

If one checks out a library book, there is a system in place that keeps track of who checked out which book - by title - on which date, and whether that book was returned. There is also a process in place that will be activated if the book is not returned.

Evidently there is no such system at the federal level for classified documents. It is apparently just assumed that anyone authorized to have access to a classified document is responsible enough to return the document without having to be reminded to do so.

Therefore, until an accountability system for classified documents is put into place AND enforced, the problem will continue.

No elected official, including those who occupy the Oval Office are above the law and there must be a system in place to hold them accountable. However, this also means that whoever is responsible for that system much have the courage to say to whomever something similar to: Document title is past due and must be returned to or it must once again be checked out. OR Sir (Madame) you term as (name of position) has ended and the following document(s) must be returned to this office by (given date). If they are not returned by the date stated above the following action will be taken: (Nature of action.)

Response by SP5 Arthur Vines made Jan 27 at 2023 11:31 AM

2023-01-27T11:31:10-05:00

When I worked for a govt contractor, govt people interviewed us every year about our handling of classified info. They asked us to rat out any colleagues that might have problems in their lives that could make them vulnerable to foreign influence, anyone acting suspicious regarding documents. I have no doubt that I would have gone to prison if I mishandled stuff. But obviously there are different rules for special people.