What is your 'favorite' example of perceived or real UCMJ injustice?

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 07:46:01 -0400

Most times UCMJ is fair. Other times it is blatantly not. Do you have a specific example that sticks in your craw?

I do. Once under a female Battalion Commander, there was a case where two married SPCs (married to other people and not each other) decided to have an affair. The female's spouse found out and actually video taped one of their indiscretions and mailed it to the BN CDR. Neither SPC had any kids and had about the same DOR and TIG. The result? Both received extra duty but he was reduced in rank and paid a fine. She lost no rank and had suspended pay reduction. WTF?

I wasn't in the room but off the cuff it looked wrong.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 7:52 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 07:52:43 -0400

I was attached to a Marine command a while back. While the Navy can bust-down E6 to E5 via NJP, the USMC may only do so practically through near-congressional involvement. One sailor attached to the same command got a way with PG13 (equivalent to LOR), kept his rank and pay after getting caught with DUI. Lucky bastard!

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 11 at 2015 8:07 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:07:40 -0400

I've known of quite a few E7 and above years ago that got DUI's. Based on my perception, the Chain of Command "swept it under the rug" and gave them restriction and maybe a fine.

But the same crime committed by E6 and below netted in automatic reduction in rank along with restrictions and lost money.

I always thought the Chain didn't want the "hassle" of taking the E7 and above to Courts Martial or Admiral's Mast that is needed to reduce an E7 and above in rank (It is a common misconception that it takes an act of Congress to bust a Chief).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 8:14 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:14:08 -0400

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 29 at 2015 9:44 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:44:18 -0400

Around 2007 or so, one of the subordinates in my platoon were training in the field and he had been up for several hours. When being questioned by a SFC (E7), he fell asleep and fell to the ground. He supposedly received UCMJ (NJP to other folks) for sleeping on duty. I think that's pretty ridiculous if that is true. It seems him passing out was involuntary but maybe he should have been doing jumping jacks to stay awake.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Jun 29 at 2015 9:55 PM

SPC George Rudenko — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:55:32 -0400

There could have been prior discipline for the one SPC resulting in a different penalty for both.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2016 2:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:42:26 -0400

at mob station prior to my last deployment. SPC X told newly promoted SGT Y to "piss off" during an argument. SPC X got letter of reprimand and 30 days extra duty. The same afternoon, PFC A and SPC B got into a full scale fist fight in the barracks. Furniture was broken, holes were knocked in the walls, etc. All they got was a "talking to" by the 1SG. SPC X was white. PFC A, SPC B and the 1SG were black.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 7:08 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 19:08:11 -0400

I knew an E-5 who just could NOT stop failing his PT tests. He had failed four in a row, and whereas most people would be gone after that, he simply got an LOC. This was a guy who was quite chummy with the SNCOs and a few of the officers in the squadron. Flash forward about a year and a half; I failed a PT test. Same commander, same SNCOs. I was in bright and early the next morning in my blues at attention in front of the Commander receiving an LOA (this was my first-ever, and only to date, failure).
I brought it up to the Shirt at the time and my supervisor, but it sort of bled away into nothing (also found out the LOA was never placed in my PIF). It was a very interesting situation.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 8:32 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:32:16 -0400

Forgot to add the other one I once saw. Wasn't my command, but on the same base. Had a guy who was in MX, he was a pothead. Self-admitted. Well, he cut that out when he joined, but succumbed to temptation one night and smoked a joint. Sure enough, two days later, got popped for urinalysis. He did the march of death like a trooper; peed in the cup, waited for his doom. Sure enough, he gets called into the CC's office to discuss the results. He got the book thrown at him. Wasn't kicked out, but got a stripe taken away, restriction to base, etc. Took it all without complaint.
Well, same squadron, someone got hit for abusing prescription meds. Now, this guy was actually dating one of the officer's (not sure which one, not the CC) daughters. They got ADC involved and pushed back HARD. To the point where they were able to invalidate the results and demand a retest, but sent him TDY for a month for "training," despite that being the perfect timing to get all the stuff flushed out of his system. Sure enough, he comes back, pees in the cup, good to go.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Aug 10 at 2016 10:57 PM

SFC Don Ward — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 22:57:32 -0400

E7 Platoon Sgt who was coming on to a female SPC in his platoon - she walked out the door mumbling as her Squad Leader walked in. PLT SGT told Squad Ldr that she called him an SOB on her way out door. SPC got counseled by Squad Ldr, and recommended for UCMJ. She ended up getting AR 15, part of her extra duty was working for PLT SGT. He had her clean PLT shack, she almost poisoned him by using some type of cleaner on his coffee cup. The whole PLT laughed as his diarrea had him running all day.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 12:47 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 00:47:39 -0400

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, that's all I can say. Want an assurance this kind of thing won't happen to you? Don't break the law, and have good moral fiber to prove that you deserve to wear the uniform. With the amount of good people who have served to build the reputation we have, I could give a shit about some SPC cheating on his wife and getting in trouble for it. Nuff said.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 7:53 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 07:53:38 -0400

I sit on a court marshal for a man who went AWOL. His reason, he got a Red Cross notification that his Dad was dying. His commander refused him leave because he had just returned for a two week leave.

Frankly we (court) all believed that we should be trying the commander instead of the airman.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Aug 16 at 2016 8:20 AM

SSG Michael Scott — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:20:31 -0400

Come on everyone. If I was to have classified information sent to my server for my convenience without chain of command approval. Any soldier would be under UMCJ action. I do not give a damn who you are, or what your position of authority is. Anyone who lies to the American people tells the Egyptian president, and her daughter something different, is total BS. In addition, doing
foundation funding on your blackberry, and having your top lawyer advisor and aide flying from d.c. to New York to do a interview for the foundation. On my tax payer Federal government time, WTF? In addition, and Clinton's aide being hired for the state department and the clinton foundation, conflict of interest. Again, this is the classic example of the email, Benghazi, and money laundering. This is Federal injustice.

Response by MAJ Bill Darling made Aug 16 at 2016 10:50 AM

MAJ Bill Darling — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:50:07 -0400

On the national level, I always cringe when I think of the Naval Academy sexual assault case against three midshipmen accused of gang raping another midshipman. One was acquitted and charges against the other two were dropped, but none were allowed to continue/graduate because of school violations. The accuser was given immunity and therefore not punished for her violations and became a surface warfare officer. Moreover, their names are all known and hers was protected by the media.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 16 at 2016 11:56 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:56:47 -0400

Personal experience, just after boot camp and in service school as an E2, I walked out of a smoking area then back. An E5 wrote me up and it was referred to a Summary Courts Martial. Not having a clue when the LCDR (O-4) explained that he was my defense council, I explained what happened truthfully. He then also explained he was the prosecutor and found me guilty. Nothing serious as far as a penalty, but a courts martial of any kind on your record can be a career limiter. It came up every time I had to update my BI information for security clearances and when I was up for E8/9.

Response by LCpl Alton White made Aug 16 at 2016 12:52 PM

LCpl Alton White — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:52:27 -0400

While in the Marine Corp I began a life time struggle, with Migraines. I found that they were sometimes triggered by fluorescent lights (the constant Flickering) While stationed at NAS Millington, TN, during a test I had a migraine, I asked if I may return to the barracks for some medication that would stop my headache. I was denied. So to minimize the effects I leaned my face downward with my hands on my head like a visor to protect my eyes. Not covering my eyes just shielding them from the lights. the Master Chief who was monitoring the test came up behind me and snatched my chair right out from under me. I did not fall to the floor, but I came close. He shouted there will be no sleeping in my class Marine. I had already finished my test and was waiting for the time period to expire. I was not asleep or I would have fallen to the floor. The chief had me dropped from the class. I had the highest average in the class and after I plead my case to the school commander I asked him to check my last test and Stated that I had aced the test prior to this episode with the Master Chief. Upon review by the commander ( the tests and reports from all the instructors, The commander reinstated me.) this did not sit well with the chief. He was relentless in his claim I was asleep and it cost me 6 days of class and 15 days extra duty 50 a month for 6 months. But I still graduated that class top of the class and got choice of duty station upon competition. Needless to say the Chief was wasn't happy about that and blocked my promotion because of the article 15 punishment.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 3:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:07:05 -0400

Army CPT discharged for SHARP "violation" because he tapped a Soldier on the shoulder to get her attention to let her know he had retrieved her rucksack from a connex. $85k in legal fees, supporting letters from multiple GO's.

Response by Cpl Aaron Voss made Aug 16 at 2016 5:32 PM

Cpl Aaron Voss — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:32:45 -0400

UCMJ and justice, is that a real thing? Lol. I would say I heard less UCMJ justice than injustice. Buddy of mine was drunk, but took a cab back to base instead of driving. Cab driver tried to rob him, and he broke a window out of the cab. He was arrested, and after the police investigation, they saw that this cab driver had several complaints against him and put a warrant out for his arrest. All charges were dropped against my buddy.

Battalion NJP'd him this purple heart recipient with 45 days of restriction and loss of pay for "not signing out in the liberty log book." The funny part: he was married, and married Marines were exempt from signing out in the liberty log book (this is in the United States). Even funnier than that... he DID sign out in the liberty log book. He brought it up to the chain of command... went back to the liberty logbook and the page was ripped out (pretty sure that's against the law). My buddy took a picture of it on his phone, but he didn't even care anymore. Hilarious. From my 4 years in the Marine Corps, I could come up with dozens of examples of the hilarity of military "justice." hahaha

Response by SPC Keelan Southerland made Aug 17 at 2016 9:59 AM

SPC Keelan Southerland — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:59:37 -0400

In 04 a SPC was screwing (both were married) the 1SG and when the Brigade got back she made SGT in a week or two. Everyone knew about the relationship, including the BN CDR, but nobody did anything. During the deployment in 08-09 she was a SSG and was sleeping with the same guy who made BN CSM. They were doing the same thing as before and everyone knew it again. We even had an E4 doing the same thing with E4-E6's and she popped hot and ratted everyone out and ruined marriages and careers. Wouldn't you just know it when the E6 got home she made WO1 with the BN CSM's signature and a fast tracked packet. Additionally, the BN CSM and the WO1 divorced their spouses and showed up to the Army Ball sporting new wedding rings.

There is two laws in the military, one for the lower enlisted and one for the senior enlisted and officer corps. Another example is Abu Gahrib. Who got charged and what was the prison time?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 6:31 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:31:52 -0400

Bros you already know that's the way the cookie crumbles so if willing to play with fire don't complain when you get burned

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Aug 18 at 2016 12:07 AM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:07:20 -0400

Not being in the Marines I can only say that what you've described sounds like reverse discrimination; you know, poor little woman or some such crap.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Aug 18 at 2016 12:21 AM

SPC Byron Skinner — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:21:01 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner…The UCMJ as a set of laws is pretty good. You screw up it sets you straight, do you time and get your sh** together and everything is OK.. In instances where the UCMJ has bad results there is always the blanket party To make sure justice has been served.

Response by MSG David King made Aug 18 at 2016 7:43 AM

MSG David King — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 07:43:40 -0400

Welcome to the real world. It is not fair and that is all there is to it.

Response by CDR William Kempner made Aug 18 at 2016 2:52 PM

CDR William Kempner — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:52:46 -0400

I'm a great believer in equal justice under the law-civilian or military. I was stationed in Europe (I'll leave it at that) and the WIFE of my Weapons Officer (a mustang LDO-who I liked) got into it with a little Marine Lcpl female-type (who was fairly attractive) at our "all-ranks" club(Never liked that idea either) I don't know what happened-who said what to who, but there was a scuffle. (I wasn't there, having gone TAD for a few days to "Income Tax Advisor school-I was OpsO). I got back and the WepsO was in my office-doing some paperwork. I looked at him and said "What's up?" He told me he was pulled out of his dept, and taken off PRP, because some people said he was "impaired" (drunk), and should have stopped his wife from scuffling with the female Marine. He wasn't in the same room at the time!! (WTF??) I was INCREDULOUS! " You're off PRP, and banished down here? What happened to her?" (the female Marine) . Apparently, she went to "Office Hours" and got a restriction and a suspended bust (in other words, be good for six months and nothing will come of it!) . Meanwhile, the WepsO's career was ruined, and was sent back to the States and returned to enlisted status!!!! He'd been a LTJG!!! It was JUST TERRIBLE. I never forgot it. So completely unequal and unjust, and it emboldened the Marine CO (that's another story). For what happened to the LTJG, she should AT LEAST have lost a stripe, maybe even a bust down to E-1. It was horrifically unjust. It still pisses me off as I write it.

Response by SCPO Penny Douphinett made Aug 18 at 2016 4:11 PM

SCPO Penny Douphinett — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:11:18 -0400

Way back in the dark ages, 1983, I was a PO3 and pregnant with my first child. I was stationed in a very top heavy command and Captains (O6) took turns doing Mast. My Captain came into the office on a break to ask my opinion. That morning he had 2 male Sailors before him for UA and he gave them the maximum. After the break he was going to have 2 pregnant Sailors also for UA, their Chief wanted him to go easy on them because they were pregnant and experienced morning sickness. My boss wanted to know if I had morning sickness and if so, how I got to work on time. I started laughing and told him I got up an hour earlier so I could throw up, get cleaned up and get to work on time. He gave the pregnant Sailors the same punishment as those he saw earlier.

So, sometimes Mast does come out right!

Response by SGT Armando Nunez made Aug 20 at 2016 8:20 PM

SGT Armando Nunez — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:20:48 -0400

I had a buddy who had a DUI off post (My unit was on alert status). Not only he had to face civilian court, but he got a field grade article 15. Is this considered double jeopardy?

Response by SGT Stanley Bass made Aug 21 at 2016 8:24 PM

SGT Stanley Bass — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:24:37 -0400

Two instances where it happened to me. In Basic training, the px close to our basic training company had been out of stamps for a while. I was on the other side of the base at the hospital, went down the road to the px, and back to the bus stop at hospital o get back to the other side of base. Two idiots buy cigarettes. I personally have not touched a cigarette since I was 12 and found out my ad was dying of cancer. I get an article 15 for smoking cigarettes, because I was walking down the street while one of the idiots was smoking one. I also had an in prompto blanket party on me because I was smoking. Several years later I work at a MEPS, I am administering the ASVAB test, I finish and plce the disks with all the information behind the computer monitor (1997 computer monitor) I cant see them so I go downstairs to get them. At this time the CPO I am working with sees the disks grabs them tells the LT (Navy) and it gets reported to the commander (ARMY MAJ) that I left the disks unsecured. Even though they are behind 3 sets of doors, a counter, and 5 feet from the person I am working with.

Response by SSG Dale London made Aug 21 at 2016 10:57 PM

SSG Dale London — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:57:44 -0400

When I was stationed at Ft Lewis, I new a SSG who got an article 15 and had to go through ADAPCP because his wife got drunk and attacked him. He was sober and was the victim of the attack but the way the regs were written, since he was involved in an alcohol related incident, he was guilty.
How's that for unjust?