What is The Swamp that we need to drain?

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:29:25 -0500

Most everyone agrees that we need to drain The Swamp in our nation's capitol but I doubt that we all agree on what that means. No, I'm not going to mention what I think it means and start an argument. I'll leave that up to you.

I think that it's important that we understand what that Swamp really is. We don't have a ghost of a chance of draining it unless we do. This problem reminds me of the time when my mother had a brain tumor and the doctor was explaining. The great mass of the tumor was easily identified but its tendrils wove themselves into the brain where functions such as seeing, hearing, feeling, speaking, thinking, remembering, etc happened. The challenge was to remove the tumor completely so that they couldn't grow back without cutting away brain tissue and disrupting those functions. Sadly, I don't think that the great mass of The Swamp is as easily identifiable as that tumor.

So let's have a discussion, or argument if you prefer, what is The Swamp?

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 9 at 2018 10:36 AM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:36:13 -0500

That is a tough, but good question. I think its many things. I think its both political parties (I believe they both need a hard reset with fresh faces). I think its lobbyists who buy votes and keep the peoples voice subdued. I think its the federal government who has gotten so far away from its intended purpose. Its the system its self, Trump said he was going to drain the swamp but for whatever reason has "swamp people" (my words) on his administration. I honestly think that's through no fault of his own though and its simply the political system putting who they choose into those positions. Unfortunately you cant really "drain" the swamp if the swamp is a metaphor for Washington, you can only clean it up until its a clear fresh water lake. The down side is that requires legislation to pass and congress will never go for things that take money out of their hands or puts them out of a job in eight years.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2018 10:43 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:43:10 -0500

I think the swamp refers to the parts of our government that we see as bad/wrong and that need changing. For that reason, the answer will be different for everyone.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2018 10:43 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:43:11 -0500

Great question. I recently read a post regarding a "veteran's opinion meaning more"...as I'm neither a politician nor an analyst, perhaps mine doesn't count for much either. Still, it seems "common sense" to question a system where entre' into government is driven more by finances than merit...and the legislative process is controlled by factors far and away from the will of the People. The "Swamp", if there is one, is the system that allows careerists to slurp up a lucrative living without accomplishing the goals intended. We are not a true democracy (and in my opinion, that's a good thing), but neither were we established to be a true oligarchy. Until those we elect into power truly act in accordance with the platforms that they were chosen upon, do so ethically with a sincere regard to the intent, every bit as much as the "wording" of the Constitution, and forego "back-door" deals aimed at furthering their own "job security"...the landscape will be boggy indeed.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made Mar 9 at 2018 10:48 AM

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:48:05 -0500

Murky and stagnant ! All of the above....

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 9 at 2018 11:02 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:02:45 -0500

Draining the swamp sounds good and pretty easy, but if you think about it a swamp is full of much, soil, floaters, waste water and assorted debris. So just removing all that crap seems like a monumental task. It will fight all efforts to pump it out, burn it out or scoop it out. I think a proper examination of "RETURN ON INVESTMENT" would be called for. Instead of attempting to drain that sewage water and chunks of fecal matter we may be better off just dumping cement/concrete into the swamp for as long as it takes to fill the depression that holds all of this waste product. Once the concrete hardens we can either build upon it or move to more firm ground that is level and won't easily serve as a new basin for the next swamp. With this fresh start we can repair cracks, remove those pesky weeds and do regular maintenance to prevent degradation of the foundation we build upon.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Mar 9 at 2018 11:18 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:18:19 -0500

The swamp is just another way of saying the establishment. It takes in both parties, that has evolved over the years of my life to near perfection. Term limits are the only solution and that’s not going to happen. The real problem is the deep state, another nebulous term for those that would do anything to push their agenda, in government and in the civilian world to nearly fit the old charge of sedition or attempted coupe d’ etat.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Mar 9 at 2018 11:32 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:32:43 -0500

It’s a combination of what you have listed and factors not listed. Lobbyists, special interest groups, Wall Street, and a plainly seen double standard all play a heavy role in why we can’t ‘drain the swamp’. Hell you can’t even fire mid level government employees, so how in the hell are you going to raze those higher? To effectively do this would take a monumental shift in governance, another in government employment, another in all lobbying, special interest groups, and anything that can effect change to the change we’d want. It’s not gonna happen

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Mar 9 at 2018 11:42 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:42:18 -0500

Needs a good cleaning out.

Response by Capt Dwayne Conyers made Mar 9 at 2018 11:51 AM

Capt Dwayne Conyers — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:51:33 -0500

Lobbies that play politicians to work against our needs...

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Mar 9 at 2018 11:53 AM

SCPO Morris Ramsey — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:53:43 -0500

CPT Jack Durish MCPO Roger Collins I believe Master Chief Collins nailed it. The size, depth and shape of the swap is contuinaly morphing.

Response by LTC David Brown made Mar 9 at 2018 11:55 AM

LTC David Brown — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:55:40 -0500

The swamp is high mid level to high level entrenched bureaucrats in the system and in Love withtheir power. Lois Learner, McCabe, Strzok and his girl friend typify the this type of person. They consider themselves above the law and look down on those whom they are supposed to serve. The will of the people mean nothing to them. They lean to the left because increasing government size increases their power. The majority of the press supports them because the press is in love with the idea of socialism. There is one recent developments that high lights this. The most recent is the Democratic black caucus and their support of Farrakhan. Farrakhan and his buddy now dead Khalid Mohammad have spouted the most racist hate filled opinions since Hitler. Congress men sit and listen to this excrement and node in agreement. The press has been irresponsible in not condemning this trash. Even Obama had his picture taken with Farrakhan. Where is the out rage? Why isn’t face book lite up? Where are the editorials? Oh never mind these are liberals so they can associate with a major bigot and crazy person like Farrakhan with no problem!

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Mar 9 at 2018 11:57 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:57:51 -0500

The swamp that needs draining is "all of the above".

Personally, I think we need a minimum of three Senate terms worth of "voting people OUT of office" as opposed to "voting people INTO office".

Eighteen years worth of saying "YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!" ought to be a pretty good flush of the DC colon.

Maybe we can then enjoy a few decades of politicians that stand up and take notice when they realize that they can be served notice at the drop of an election hat.

The other thing I wouldn't mind seeing comes straight out of "The Last Continent" by Terry Pratchett (for all you Discworld fans out there):

“We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they’re elected. Don’t you?”

“Why?”

“It saves time.”

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 9 at 2018 12:09 PM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 12:09:44 -0500

Unfortunately, your survey only allows us to pick one of the many parts of the swamp.
In order from swampiest to least swampy, as it stands right now.

1) Bureaucracy - it has become an unaccountable fourth branch of government. A ship that recognizes no master other than inertia.

2) Activist Judges - We need judges who are intellectually honest enough to disregard their political opinion and rule base on the letter of the law.

3) Political Parties - The parties serve their own interests instead of having differing opinions of how to best serve America.

4) Elected officials, primarily Congress. When political opponents cannot amicably sit at the same table in the Congressional Cafeteria, something is wrong. It is not a knife fight, it is supposed to be "going about the business of the constituents."

5) The Office of the President has been creeping toward the imperial Presidency at least since FDR. It started to walk with the President Clinton and began to run under President Obama.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Mar 9 at 2018 12:27 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 12:27:30 -0500

Special interests, monied interests, etc, buying politicians who are there usually as long as they want because our current system it.

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Mar 9 at 2018 12:30 PM

SGT Jim Arnold — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 12:30:29 -0500

I believe they call it the 5th column of the unaccountable/ non-elected Union government employees

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2018 1:07 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 13:07:12 -0500

People who are more intent on serving their own interests and the interests of lobbyists, rather than serving the people who elected them. Results in policies and regulations that are costly, inefficient, and ineffective for the American people. Public service has become self-service. This mentality is not confined to DC - it permeates throughout state and local government.

Whenever I hear the adage "It's good enough for government work", I think of the swamp. Does your local government serve you or do you serve them? Think of your last trip to the DMV or the tax office. Were the nice people behind the counter really helping you or simply filling the squares for a paycheck? I filled for a homestead exemption early last year. The clerk assured me I was qualified and would have the tax adjustment this year. Nope. Somehow I'm not reassured Trump is going to improve the quality of work at my county tax office. I guess that's up to me when I vote.

Trump has demonstrated in his first year he is focused on achieving his campaign promises and that is a good start...a politician who does what he promised. Not an easy feat when wading through the swamp.

Response by TSgt David L. made Mar 9 at 2018 1:15 PM

TSgt David L. — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 13:15:43 -0500

The entire District is the Swamp. From Congress to the lobbyists. Lets start with term limits and go from there. Without that there can be no change to the status quo.

Response by SPC Tom DeSmet made Mar 9 at 2018 1:33 PM

SPC Tom DeSmet — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 13:33:32 -0500

The swamp is full of lobbiests and any person that is there to serve their personal needs rather than the people of this country. It obviously includes most of Congress, some Whitehouse cabinet members, RBG of the supreme court, some of the MSM,some of the FBI and Justice department, and the legacy Washington elite class. For example, how do members of congress become millionaires on their salaries or a Secretary of State???

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Mar 9 at 2018 2:08 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 14:08:21 -0500

The following may only be part of the problem.
The CFR North American Union is regional government to supersede national government. Those who have signed off on it have sent Money to Congressional candidates run for office. Some senators have sold out America for this agenda. It includes NAFTA and GATT.
Leadership positions within our government have been filled by those loyal to the above stated agenda. Lately, we can see it in the FBI and local Police Chief. From actions, it appears the State Department is filled with globalists.
The Democratic party. With Moon Beam as an example of a open borders, Marxist agenda and large Central government is not American culture. I include RINOS with them.
I will stop there for now.

Response by Alan K. made Mar 9 at 2018 4:45 PM

Alan K. — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 16:45:37 -0500

Career politicians who are in the pockets of "big business", I know...Say it ain't so! and especially those whose pockets contain those said politicians...!!! Should be an "all the above" choice too! BTW, those are the tips you can see...The ones you cannot are layers back. Peel the onion.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Mar 9 at 2018 5:14 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:14:20 -0500

As a former enlisted combat engineer, I recognize that draining swamps is important in cutting mosquito populations which can spread malaria, encephalitis and other diseases carried by mosquitos.
As somebody who has lived within 20 miles of Washington, DC since I was first stationed here in 1989 CPT Jack Durish, In have seen the Federal Bureaucracy grow in leaps and bounds during particularly former POTUS Obama's administration.
1. Right-sizing the Federal government is a monumental task which needs to be well-thought through. I remember when I worked in or was assigned to the Pentagon that after POTUS Obama was elected there was an effort to streamline DoD policy. I saw many policy documents eliminated and partially replaced by consolidated documents. Many times specific responsibilities were removed without being redesignated or reauthorized. Certainly it did not begin in 2009 but the benighted process to streamline in a stovepipe fashion was on steroids then.
2. Certainly it has grown since FDR introduced socialism in the 1930s. New Federal Agencies were added then and more during the 1960s and 1970s especially.
3. Removing a Federal Bureaucrat is problematic to say the least.
4. Cutting authorizations for billets is an essential process in draining the swamp.
5. Streamlining regulations and deconflicting laws and regulations especially in areas which impact families and small businesses is of paramount importance IMHO.
FYI Sgt Randy Wilber LTC John Griscom Brig Gen Jim Jaeger SSG Donald H "Don" Bates SP5 Jerry Mucha SP6: Roy WiltSPC Private RallyPoint MemberAaditya ThaduriSGT John Meredith CPL Dave Hoover MSgt John McGowan MSG Dan WaltherMSgt David M.

Response by MAJ Don Bigger made Mar 9 at 2018 5:32 PM

MAJ Don Bigger — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:32:45 -0500

I don’t know what it is, but it’ll never be drained.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Mar 9 at 2018 6:41 PM

MSgt John McGowan — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 18:41:42 -0500

Capt. Jack Durish—— Great question, if and when we drain the swamp will we just be swapping one set for another? Money talks very loud and we know people will sale out for security of money. Congress makes the rules, Congress made rules that helps them but not the average person and they make their money that way. I understand Harry Reid was almost broke going in office but retired with 18 million. Makes me wonder.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Mar 9 at 2018 6:49 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 18:49:48 -0500

I believe the swamp is a combination of yhe political parties and the entrenched bureaucracy

Response by Sgt Randy Wilber made Mar 9 at 2018 8:29 PM

Sgt Randy Wilber — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 20:29:33 -0500

I believe it's all of the above, but I think the only way we have a chance to start is with term limits, and it will take a while but once we get term limits then we need to do it the way the constitution says ppl leave their job to serve don't allow ppl to stay and get greedy. If we could get it to where ppl their want to serve the "We the People" then we might see a change in the other areas that are problematic.

Response by Mark Jordan made Mar 9 at 2018 8:32 PM

Mark Jordan — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 20:32:28 -0500

Draining the Swap is a misnomer. That is, a swap is not only unfit for cultivation, but it's the handiwork of nature. And we've all been forewarned about messing with her.

Besides, what good does it do to drain an unsightly rotting swamp when all we're left with is a stenchy hole? Yes, we can refill it, but the complexion of a swamp is to remain one. And contrary to the efficacy of draining swamps, the goal, as I hear it expressed, is to affect not only change but to advance progress.

It seems to me that if we are going to have any chance at draining whatever it is we're so darn sure needs draining, the first step in the right direction is to at least identify it correctly. Right?

I'd rather have it said that we should Drain the Pool. Why a pool?

A pool is a product of man – as is our nation, it's laws and governing bodies. It's something we created. And since it is a contrivance of man, man is equipped to improve upon it. It's what we do best. Once drained of its contaminants, it can actually be filled again – and again, and again – each time with revitalizing waters, and a never-ending stream of reformations.

In brief, I'm more optimistic about draining a pool than a swamp. Our odds are better at fixing something we've designed as opposed to fighting Mother Nature.

Response by SSG Michael Eastes made Mar 9 at 2018 9:23 PM

SSG Michael Eastes — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 21:23:56 -0500

Without a wholesale redesign of the Federal Employment Entitled Bureaucracy (FEEBs), nothing will change. Political entities (elected types) come and go, but The System is forever. Think of the civil service as portrayed in Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister, and I think that it's pretty spot on, for the UK, the US, and most other governments that have gotten overgrown.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Mar 10 at 2018 8:07 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 08:07:23 -0500

D.C. in general. In 1976, Congress could not pass the budget by the end of June, when the Fiscal Year. Temporary fix was to add three months to the FY, so that now the FY is from October to September. This solved nothing as Congress still can not get a Budget passed.
Congressmen/Congresswomen get to Washington with great promises to their constituents and develop short-term memories that forget what they are there for.
Washington is a swamp, but it is sitting on top of a septic tank that needs to be cleaned out first.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2018 8:59 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 08:59:40 -0500

IMO lobbyists and dark campaign finance would be a great start. Then, any efforts against the vote i.e. gerrymandering, voter suppression.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Mar 10 at 2018 11:19 AM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 11:19:07 -0500

Voter apathy! We have the government we deserve. If we have a "swamp" it is our own damn fault. As I posted on another thread, we have a terrible record on voter participation. Less than 60% of eligible voters in the last General election, 28% in the primaries, and, really important, only 36% voted in the last mid-terms (2014). I wonder, if truth be told, just how many of our board members posting here actually vote?
By the way, I see the responses on this issue are pretty much predictable. We cannot even agree on a single question. Good luck to the USA.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Mar 10 at 2018 12:47 PM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 12:47:43 -0500

Wash DC was originally a swamp. The Brigs got Tropical Pay and wore shorts in 1812. Maybe we just let the river fill up the swamp and start over....it would be cleaner. :)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2018 7:21 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 19:21:52 -0500

I was first sticking Congress than I thought about that political action committees namely the legal Lobby, Pharmaceuticals and the American Medical Association. You could also say that the National Rifle Association and putting political pressure so defective weapons can't be recalled or under consumer protection.

How Defective Guns Became the Only Product That Can’t Be Recalled https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-28/how-defective-guns-became-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled

How Defective Guns Became the Only Product That Can’t Be Recalled

The government won’t fix it. The NRA is silent.

Response by Samantha S. made Mar 11 at 2018 8:04 AM

Samantha S. — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 08:04:48 -0400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypr11PvaCpI

Glen Beck identifies largest criminal organization in US history, the National Democrat Party

End the Ron Paul Supporter Deceit 2012

Response by Susan Foster made Mar 11 at 2018 10:09 AM

Susan Foster — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:09:14 -0400

At different times, I have heard every one of these. I always thought it was the career lobbyists, yet I found out other people didn't understand it like I did. I think when people use that term, they think the swamp is anyone they don't think adds value, or anyone they see as obstructing their idea of what's right, good and needed. Which of course is different for all of us. And since we all don't agree on what it actually is, it would be difficult to know when it's been drained at all.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2018 11:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 11:56:20 -0400

Various groups and individuals seek to make a buck by influencing our government. They seek to get law and regulations in place that favor them, often at the expense of the rest of society. This is not illegal - the 1st amendment specifically protects the right to petition government, and rightly so. The problem is not the folks asking for favors, the problem is the folks in office handing the favors out.

Elected office should not be a career. I'm completely, enthusiastically in favor of one-and-done term limits on every elected office from local to federal and everything in between. There should be no such thing as a career politician. If they can't make it in a "regular" profession, then what business do they have passing laws or directing government?

The complaints about government waste and corruption are well-founded, but the recent invocation of this "drain the swamp" mantra has been among Trump-supporters. They got conned. Donald Trump is no savior of the common man. His recent embracing of tariffs is economic idiocy. His employment of Jared Kushner is straight nepotism. The number of people in and around his administration that keep turning up with connections to Russia and Turkey is genuinely concerning. The alternative, Hillary Clinton was equally unacceptable. I stayed home and never used my mail-in ballot. There just wasn't anybody to choose from. I think the most acceptable person in the primaries was Jim Webb, and I've never voted for a Democrat in my life.

The root of the problem, though, is in American society. As long as Americans pay no attention to the boring stuff in school about history, civics, and economics (to say nothing of Americans' choices of how their kids get educated/indoctrinated), then they will get hoodwinked by the likes of the career politicians in DC and the media aligned with the DC crowd by intersection of interests. An ignorant population is easily fooled. Preserving American freedom and prosperity requires a vigilant voting public. Celebrity-worship and Pavlovian responses to media ringing rather simplistic bells will produce disappointing results from both the left and the right. So, the "swamp" reflects the problems of society, not the other way around.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2018 12:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 12:09:21 -0400

The punch line of the old joke. It's kind of hard to remember the objective was to drain the swamp, when your up to your ass in alligators