What is something that you feel most 2nd lieutenants lack?

Cadet CPL Lamin Conteh — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 17:54:38 -0500

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Dec 3 at 2019 6:03 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:03:01 -0500

Experience... Just like most new Soldiers/Service members!

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Dec 3 at 2019 6:11 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:11:52 -0500

Experience, wisdom, and maturity. But that's kind of expected.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 6:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:15:31 -0500

There are a handful of commissioned officers who never should have made it through the process. They’re easy to spot. Otherwise, all joking aside, most of what young LT’s lack can and is fixed by time and mentorship. The only thing I can’t fix is a bad attitude.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Dec 3 at 2019 6:21 PM

Maj Kim Patterson — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:21:32 -0500

Cadet CPL Lamin Conteh Experience. And willingness to listen to their NCOs who have been at it for awhile. I am most grateful for the NCOs that pulled me aside early on and said something akin to you can either do it the way ( your commissioning source) told you or we can teach you. I went with option B.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 3 at 2019 6:28 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:28:14 -0500

I am not saying they totally lack these skills. I am saying these areas are what they need to work on:

- Leadership
- Tactical and technical skills
- Knowing organizations that he must coordinate with and why
- Using NCOs for institutional knowledge
- Stay out of NCO business
- Have compassion
- Fight for the troops

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 3 at 2019 6:31 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:31:29 -0500

Everyone is hitting on the good points. It's the next step that's crucial. That is the experience actually changes you for the good. The overall average capability to do that has been arguably declining over the years. You see the difference every day. What used to be "Wow, I will improve so my butt doesn't get chewed like that again" to a whiny "I got picked on for no reason". So you tell me which one is more likely to improve. Look around at the junior officer community. You can easily spot who's walking in open air and who has the perpetual cloud hanging over them. Good officer leadership won't let the cloud pullers hang around for long.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 6:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:38:23 -0500

Feedback from PVTs....

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 6:40 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:40:20 -0500

rank

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Dec 3 at 2019 6:43 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:43:15 -0500

While I was in Germany(my first duty station) the butter bars lacked experience. They all looked toward the senior leadership for advice, knowledge, and assistance. They were great.
While I was in El Paso(my second duty station) the butter bars lacked experience and respect for the senior leadership. They would constantly bicker with the NCOs and it was quite embarrassing to see the NCOs bickering back.
If you go commissioned, make sure you listen to the senior leadership. Just because you technically outrank an NCO does not mean you do not have something to learn from them.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 3 at 2019 6:46 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:46:43 -0500

- They also lack situational awareness sometimes
- Moral courage

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 7:30 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 19:30:27 -0500

Life experience.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Dec 3 at 2019 7:57 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 19:57:13 -0500

Wisdom. But that (hopefully) comes with experience. The biggest wisdom gap I see is understanding when to be patient, and when to be urgent.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 3 at 2019 8:23 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 20:23:21 -0500

I certainly lacked perspective. With little experience and cursory training I was self centered. Pilot training provided a 1-year buffer between university and the real Air Force. Even then the real Air Force was very different than I expected. My first lesson: if you want something you have to ask for it.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Dec 3 at 2019 8:59 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 20:59:46 -0500

Experience like all new soldiers.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 10:10 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 22:10:45 -0500

I think they lack experience and the understanding of enlisted life. Now obviously these dont apply to all 2LTs as I've had phenomenal LTs both in the Army and Marine Corps.
The experience is gained over time, but the understanding can only be gained by talking to your soldiers, and ditching the sense of entitlement and supreme know all mentality that I've seen from new 2LTs far too often.
If I could give one piece of advice to newly commissioned 2LTs it would be, respect is reciprocal. Your enlisted counterparts will respect your rank, but they will not respect your leadership until you respect them and their experience.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 11:00 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 23:00:34 -0500

Humility and social skills.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Dec 4 at 2019 7:23 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 07:23:43 -0500

Experience. If you listen to your NCOs you survive and thrive until you get it.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Dec 4 at 2019 8:43 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 08:43:24 -0500

Too easy-experience. Everyone likes to pick on the Butter-Bar (and for good reason), but honestly, most will mature into competent officers given half a chance. The small percentage that are complete wastes of space generally don't make it very long. You simply cannot "make" tactical geniuses, or imbue the highest standards of personal leadership across four years at ROTC or the Academy, let alone shorter periods in OCS... but you can plant the seeds. Sadly, I believe enlisted, or commissioned, we often end up canning otherwise promising officers and enlisted members for relatively minor errors early in their careers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2019 8:56 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 08:56:56 -0500

Most LTs in general, lack experienced are over compident.

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Dec 4 at 2019 10:37 AM

CPL Earl Kochis — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 10:37:54 -0500

The ability to realize that a book can’t teach real world experience!!! All the lieutenants I ever met had a hard time learning that what they were taught in a college environment had no real application to active duty life!!! The academic side helped in job position but some of the history of warfare sunk in to deep and they had a hard time adapting to new strategies and combat standards!! Sometimes their ego was their biggest problem!! Instead of realizing that they were equivalent to a buck private in the officer world and needed to learn from the experience of NCO’s and field grades to become leaders!! To become a good leader you first must learn to follow!!

Response by PO3 John Keas made Dec 4 at 2019 6:13 PM

PO3 John Keas — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 18:13:08 -0500

As much as we deride Butter Bars...they are still trainable. Just need a good NCO (or Petty Officer as the case may be) to tell them how things REALLY work outside of school.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2019 6:25 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 18:25:04 -0500

Nothing.

We somehow forget that Lieutenant's need to be trained much like the new Privates, and need to be given room to screw up much like new Privates.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Dec 4 at 2019 6:36 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 18:36:48 -0500

Respect and expectations.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2019 10:25 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 22:25:24 -0500

Experience. That's it for the most part. The only real curable difference between a new LT and a seasoned officer is the experience they have procured.

Response by SSG Dale London made Dec 4 at 2019 11:01 PM

SSG Dale London — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 23:01:07 -0500

Thismay not be a popular response but it comes from my own experience both as an NCO and as an officer.
It is almost axiomatic that 2LT's lack experience but that can be fixed by a decent NCO. Something harder to fix is a lack of perspective. Many new officers get caught up chasing minutiae and miss the bigger picture. What is required here is massive quantities of patience and a willingness to let the LT fall on his face once or twice on small stuff -- big stuff has a wider impact and his soldiers don't deserve the fallout that comes from a raging eff-up.
As a soldier, and later as an NCO, you will need to establish a good sense of perspective for yourself and that will allow you to more effectively house-train your LT.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Dec 5 at 2019 6:49 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 06:49:01 -0500

Nobody's all knowing right out of the box, whether in the military or civilian life. Experience, mentoring from senior officers, guidance and patience from NCO's. On the LT's part, don't be too proud to ask.

Response by 2LT Gerald Dominy made Dec 23 at 2019 1:32 AM

2LT Gerald Dominy — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 01:32:07 -0500

Respect for subordinates abilities and leadership..and that other than for that bar on his shoulder..a lt could be handed his hiney back on a platter..the military is a artificial fabricated bubble. Dont let it go to you head.

Most prior enlisted and especially combat veterans who make officer . Many would follow into hell armed with a water pistol..if your not one. Dont try to be..learn first.

Response by 2ndLt Paul Ryan made Jan 9 at 2020 12:38 AM

2ndLt Paul Ryan — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 00:38:34 -0500

One word - Experience - and a desire to become better!

Response by SP5 Craig Harridge made Jan 18 at 2020 9:17 AM

SP5 Craig Harridge — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 09:17:07 -0500

In a word - HUMILITY. In my brief military experience, many 2LT's seemed to be quite impressed that EM's of vastly superior knowledge and experience have to salute them and address them as Sir, something that many have probably never experienced before. I experienced that with a 2LT (OCS "90 day wonder") who was quite impressed with himself and loved to make others' lives miserable. I also believe that in this generation of entitlement, the humility issue has become even more pronounced. Many young people feel that they already know it all, and should be accelerated to a higher position than they're actually far from qualified to fill.

Response by PO2 Steven Michaeli made Jan 20 at 2020 12:50 PM

PO2 Steven Michaeli — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:50:09 -0500

Facial hair

Response by TSgt Richard Adams made Jan 24 at 2020 9:48 AM

TSgt Richard Adams — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:48:54 -0500

Just learn from your more experienced NCOs, SNCOs and senior Officers. Be a sponge and learn all you can.

Response by SMSgt Cary Baker made Jan 24 at 2020 2:19 PM

SMSgt Cary Baker — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 14:19:09 -0500

They lack experience - many are just out of college & OTS and really have no experience in leadership, management and mentoring. Good NCOs & SNCOs will mentor and support. A young LT may be a future commander is they want it.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Jan 26 at 2020 9:31 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 21:31:06 -0500

I once had a very famous 4-star general tell me that Second Lieutenants were nothing more than privates with college degrees.

Response by 2LT Alan Turley made Mar 4 at 2020 5:07 PM

2LT Alan Turley — Wed, 04 Mar 2020 17:07:49 -0500

The surefooted composure of experience.

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made Nov 22 at 2020 7:29 PM

CW2 Carl Swanson — Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:29:45 -0500

Maturity

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Mar 14 at 2021 4:25 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Sun, 14 Mar 2021 16:25:13 -0400

Experience.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Nov 29 at 2021 6:08 PM

SFC Gary Fox — Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:08:21 -0500

I've had experience with many who lacked humility. I had a few second lieutenants just out of OBC come in to be the platoon leader who thought they knew more about how to get the mission done than the platoon sergeant and squad leaders. Heck, even specialists had more experience than they did.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Nov 30 at 2021 8:25 AM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 08:25:35 -0500

I got myself in trouble by getting into a fist fight with an LT. The funny thing came afterwards. I had so many senior NCOs & field grade officers up to a an O-6 all shake my hand. I did what they themselves all wanted to do that to the LTs they dealt with.