What if someone higher rank than you tries to correct you, but you're within regulations?

2016-03-03T15:08:46-05:00

Looking for advice for Junior Enlisted SM's to follow. Let's say a new regulation is just passed, lets use the black socks. If someone higher rank than you tries to tell you are out of regulation, but you know you are in regulation, what should one do? Inform the higher rank of the change in regs? Have them speak to your first line?

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Mar 3 at 2016 3:11 PM

2016-03-03T15:11:09-05:00

I will humble myself! Hear what they have to say! Then show them the Regulations so that way they can CORRECT and CONVICT themselves!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 3:12 PM

2016-03-03T15:12:25-05:00

personally, I would just take the "correction" at face value yet still tactfully and respectfully inform of them of said regulation change (and better be sure to know the reg and pub date). Then simply give my immediate higher a heads up on what took place.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 3 at 2016 3:20 PM

2016-03-03T15:20:16-05:00

I would probably say roger and leave.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Mar 3 at 2016 3:29 PM

2016-03-03T15:29:18-05:00

Never try to correct someone of higher rank, especially with others around. Just make the correction, if possible and inform you ever platoon or shop O.I.C. ( Officer In Charge ). Let him or her research the regulations, and go inform that individual of any changes and the date said changes will officially start.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 3:47 PM

2016-03-03T15:47:08-05:00

There are obviously many ways to respond in a situation like that. I say choose your battles and always be tactful and respectful. You can't carry the AR670-1 with you, acknowledge the correction then double check the regulation.

Response by GySgt John O'Donnell made Mar 3 at 2016 3:52 PM

2016-03-03T15:52:48-05:00

I would show respect and listen to the guidance given with a positive reply and a "wilco" attitude, then report the incident to you next higher leader. If the "corrector" continues to commucate concern after that (and you are sure of the regulation), respectfully give the individual you unit name and your senior/staff NCO and first sergeant info, and then report the matter to them immediately. Tact and respect of the junior are key action traits in matters like this.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 4:03 PM

2016-03-03T16:03:24-05:00

Hmm. Take your lumps, agree, and excuse yourself. Do not correct that person in public.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 4:38 PM

2016-03-03T16:38:05-05:00

You tactfully inform them of what's correct.
The longer you are in your job, the more of a subject matter expert you become. Which means you start to hear how wrong others are more often. Most leaders want to know what is correct and it's your job as an NCO to provide honesty with candor, not be a yes man.

Response by SGM Robert Speakman made Mar 3 at 2016 4:50 PM

2016-03-03T16:50:57-05:00

Don't argue with them, just say "yes Sergeant" or "yes Sir" and go about your business

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-03-03T17:04:54-05:00

Just say Hoahh and shake your head... Do a typical army answer, remember the army wants you to not think.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 6:07 PM

2016-03-03T18:07:41-05:00

Best peice of advice I have been given to date is this. "Do what your rank can afford." As the sir said. At this point just say rodger and leave.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Mar 3 at 2016 8:05 PM

2016-03-03T20:05:22-05:00

respectfully cite the reg and say that you are within standards according to this reg, and thank him/her for making it a priority to insist on the highest standards on post

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 3 at 2016 8:55 PM

2016-03-03T20:55:05-05:00

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member You have to pick and choose your battles. This all depends on the situation and issue at hand.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 8:59 PM

2016-03-03T20:59:40-05:00

Say Roger then go print out the regulations keep it in your pocket and continue on.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 3 at 2016 9:09 PM

2016-03-03T21:09:22-05:00

The higher the rank the further you will fall so with that Roger that and drive on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 9:34 PM

2016-03-03T21:34:20-05:00

I've been in this situation before, when I showed up to drill in the new pattern. As others have said, pick your battles and be tactful. Luckily, everyone who tried to correct me was level-headed when I am informed them of the changes allowing soldiers to wear the new uniform. After the second "pull-aside" I went and printed out the new regs and kept them in my breast pocket.

It's easy to counter-correct someone if you do so with respect and confident knowledge.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Mar 3 at 2016 10:00 PM

2016-03-03T22:00:07-05:00

Well, you can definitely respond appropriately. Being of lesser rank does not mean you have less knowledge. Just be smart about your response and provide the appropriate reference. I witnessed a CSM once correct a CPT on his return salute. It was art. The CSM who had light years of service, experience and knowledge stopped the CPT, explained the reason for the stop and tactfully began to cite and show the CPT how he must return the salute along with the importance of this custom and courtesy. The CPT thanked him for his professionalism, candor and time. The CPT said he would immediately take this back to his unit and ensure it was followed. Let's face it, we have all had a lazy return salute and some let it go. Do not let it go because you set a new standard. Be candor, be professional, be right. But above all, continue to uphold the highest standards that our Army is known for.

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Mar 3 at 2016 10:51 PM

2016-03-03T22:51:17-05:00

Ask them for the book he is getting the regs from then beat him with it. Jk I had this happen a col let me know I needed to remove my cover while indoors I smiled and said I am the exception to the policy sir. His face turn red asked who my Sargent was and who the hell I thought I was. I told him my name is pfc Freeman my Sargent is Sargent Martin and he will gladly let you know I am the exception to this policy along with the 40 others wearing the same uniform.
He cocked his head and said how so.
I pointed to my right side where my service weapon that was in plain sight. I armed with a loaded weapon so there for I must keep my cover on. He walked away. I don't think he was to happy but that's life can't always be right. But you do have to be respectful when proving so

Response by SFC Chris Horton made Mar 4 at 2016 1:45 AM

2016-03-04T01:45:23-05:00

This is the problem with this generation. Why would you even question it? If they are wrong about something as simple as socks ,so be it. You acknowledge appropriately, do what your told and move out. There's a much bigger ideology here. It's a combination of respect, discipline and basic soldiering skills. My advice is to say "Yes Sergeant!" at a rigid position of parade rest. Believe me when your a SGT-CSM you will understand.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 4 at 2016 6:59 AM

2016-03-04T06:59:26-05:00

Respectfully tell them that you are in fact within regulations. It doesn't hurt for you to be right just because you are lower than the one correcting you, can't expect NCOs or officers or anyone for that matter to know the regulations verbatim. So just respectfully notify them of the change and that you are within regulations to be wearing what you're wearing or doing what you're doing.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 11:42 AM

2016-03-04T11:42:18-05:00

Here is my statement: "Sir/Ma'am, thank you for bring that to my attention. May I ask if you are aware of the recent change to the regulation?" If the say no, make sure to tell them the date of the change. If they don't care, I reply with "noted, thank you," and press on.

Response by SGT Logan Beckwith made Mar 4 at 2016 12:16 PM

2016-03-04T12:16:14-05:00

Definitely respectfully inform them of the regulation change and give them the information to speak to your first line if they would like.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 4:56 PM

2016-03-04T16:56:45-05:00

Personally, I would respond along the lines of:
"Thank you very much [insert rank here]. I appreciate you helping to square me away. The regs have recently changed to allow [insert circumstance here] under [insert condition here]. However, if you would like, I can get you in contact with my NCO, I'm sure they could probably explain it better than I can. But again, thank you for the help!" If you choose to site the regulation, make sure you know reg number, section and paragraph.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 4:58 PM

2016-03-04T16:58:23-05:00

I would listen politely, reply in the affirmative, "Yes, Sir, Ma'am, SGT, etc.," and at the earliest opportunity, inform my supervisor of the conversation.

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made Mar 4 at 2016 5:15 PM

2016-03-04T17:15:31-05:00

Hooah, Sir/SGT

Response by SrA Patrick Jacobs made Mar 4 at 2016 9:55 PM

2016-03-04T21:55:16-05:00

I watched an SRA (E-4) tell a Colonel he was out of regulations in 1992. He had glossy ranks with a subdued belt buckle. The Colonel thanked him and sent a letter of appreciation to his parents and local newpaper back home.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Mar 5 at 2016 11:34 AM

2016-03-05T11:34:54-05:00

Interesting that most of the SNCOs have the same answer, while the juniors have a different opinion of how to react. If you plan to buck the senior Officer or SNCO, be sure you know how they react to being called out. It could be a career limiter. I used to find it kind of fun to have informal discussions like this with my reports and others with similar opinions. AND, you guys/gals keep on the with Roger term, that catches an acknowledged conceited person like me to have to stop and see what is being said. Stop It!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2016 10:47 PM

2016-03-05T22:47:50-05:00

You really do have this phobic obsession with being gigged by or gigging others of a higher rank when YOU, an E-4, ARE RIGHT.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2016 11:04 PM

2016-03-05T23:04:59-05:00

If I KNOW I'm within regs? I'm going to tell them to (expletive) themselves and to get educated on proper regulation. Then I might invite them to eat a bag of [sic] male organs....

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 10:12 AM

2016-03-06T10:12:07-05:00

You can "challenge" them and look up the reg and show them

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2016 11:09 AM

2016-03-07T11:09:35-05:00

Go with it, when all is said and done print out the new order/directive what ever it is and bring it to them. As tactfully as possible inform them of the change, I was taught at recruit training that corrections can go up or down doesn't matter. If a Marine is wrong hes wrong and needs to be corrected. Now would I go up to a MSgt or 1stSgt and correct him in front of other Marines? Hell no, that's your death wish. Do it behind closed doors and keep it as professional as possible. He was just unaware of the new policy, its your job to ensure that he is aware of its new guidelines.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2016 12:10 AM

2016-03-21T00:10:24-04:00

This rule applies in everyday life, in or out of the military, young or old, higher authority, peer or lower authority.
Rule: be professional (military bearing). If they tried to correct you, help them out or thank them and move on.
If they corrected you, and you just reviewed the regulation: think twice, because their command or unit or leader, etc.: May have authority to deviate from certain policies or regulations - stay professional (military bearing), thank them and move on.
The key is to be respectful and no argument[s]. It often takes a lot of character to ever bring an observation to someone's attention regardless of their status. Respect goes both ways at all times. Follow the custom of the military about correction. Using the chain of command both formal and informal. Sometimes one can be gained by compliance to gain them through learning either together, by time or their peer[s].
If it is a matter of one you do not like or they do not like you etc.: The Rule still applies. Respect at all times. If needed: Write a memorandum for record of the correction.
I had a real horrible experience while in Bosnia. I just washed my hands before going into the DEFAC. As I stood waiting for my fellow officers a CPT came up to me and with a very mean and hateful demeanor exclaimed "Wash your hands!" he yelled.
I turned and looking at him, calmly said, "Sir I just washed my hands."
He barked again in public with the hatred of Hitler.
Not knowing anyone was around, I grabbed my composure and pondering his evil tone & illness was warring in my mind to use my advice above when out of know where his peer, another Captain snatched his donkey from my presence and into the DEFAC!
Whew...sure glad I believe in prayer!

Response by SFC Craig Dalen made Mar 25 at 2016 10:42 AM

2016-03-25T10:42:58-04:00

No you correct them with tact or if it is something minor you "fix it" and move out. There is nothing wrong with tactfully saying what the regulation says. It is all in how you present it. If you come off cocky or like you are blowing them off / trying to one up them more than likely you will get lit up. But if you can say it with respect and clarity then that leader should be professional enough to thank you and then move out. Just know when to pick your battles and you better be able to reference the change. If it isn't worth the time though my suggestion is say Roger and go about your business.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 3:23 PM

2016-05-31T15:23:09-04:00

pick your battles. If it's something minor, "roger that" and move on.

Response by SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates made Oct 13 at 2017 11:23 AM

2017-10-13T11:23:18-04:00

First thing to remember: Just because we "can" doesn't mean we "should." In this case, it might be wise to look at how fast a new regulation is expected to be implemented before rushing in to follow it. I used my common sense to watch how others in my local unit reacted in matters relating to what we would or would not be permitted regarding uniforms, i.e., hair style, nail color, lipstick, earrings, rings, etc. I always let the trend go full force before allowing myself to participate. However, job related regulations were where I had to take a stand constantly because I worked in personnel at a high level headquarters where every digit on every piece of paper produced from my work might be scrutinized from 10 to 50 people ranging in rank from SGT/E5 to the 3 star general that had to sign it. One colon, comma, period, or space not exactly right could toss a packet of paperwork back and, next thing you know, the whole packet is delayed a week. (Now you know why retirements, awards, and requests for some personnel actions get held up in red tape- yes, it is that stupid!) In fact, my first ever draft of writing that was approved as written went through 25 people to a colonel somewhere in the general's office who sent the whole packet back to be redone because he disagreed with the format used to address the letter to the higher headquarters (it was correct, and had it been addressed his way, would never have made it to the next HQ for processing). A month later (yes, a month!) my supervisor finally handed the packet back to me with a compromised way to address this correspondence that satisfied all military regulations, made sense to the higher HQ, and would be approved/signed off by the commanding general. I present you this story to say this: Pick your battles! Just because you "can" does not mean you "should" whatever it is you are thinking of.

Response by Col James Cooke made Aug 29 at 2019 9:41 PM

2019-08-29T21:41:09-04:00

My comment would be something along the lines of "Hey, thanks for bringing that up, MSgt/Lt/Capt! I should have been more careful. I'll check that reg immediately so I can get it right."

Response by LTC Warren Miller made Sep 1 at 2019 8:17 PM

2019-09-01T20:17:44-04:00

As a young EM multiple eons ago, a MSG “disagreed “ with something on my Class A uniform. My response was along the lines of “With all due respect, MSG, I believe that specific insignia is in the correct place, however we can check the reg and if I am wrong, I will happily correct it.” I was careful not to arrogantly or directly challenge his knowledge and authority because even though I was 98% sure I was right, I recognized there was still 2% left I wasn’t. After the inspection he tracked me down with the reg. I was right and he thanked me for helping him learn something. He hadn’t dealt with junior EMs for awhile and he admitted he was “out of touch” a bit and in need of some refresher training. Because if this we worked well together until I “turned to the Dark Side” and commissioned.

Be professional. Be polite. “Work and play well with others.”

Response by SSG George Holtje made Oct 21 at 2019 11:49 PM

2019-10-21T23:49:23-04:00

Smile and nod

Then tell your supervisor

@ the good folks that like to make these corrections: Get Over Yourself, Know The Regs(ie by reading them not your best guess) Your Pay Grade Does Not Mean Your Correct.
Crap like that does not inspire respect, it inspires resentment and makes you look incompetent.

Response by 2LT Gerald Dominy made Nov 27 at 2019 11:59 AM

2019-11-27T11:59:39-05:00

I would inform them of the regulation and ask them for clarification of its application to the addressed infraction..notify superiors and inquire the same,,, take notes of this action..monkey is on their backs to correct confusion..if told by superior differently. Defer to superiors interpretation and notify accordingly any contrary orders.