What do you think of the new 30 month CSL Tour length?

SGM Mike Barbieri — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 08:07:13 -0500

As you may be aware, the FY17 CSM CSL Board just convened. The personnel selected by this panel will fill CSM and key billets for 30 months vice the 24 months that we are used to. What are your thoughts on this?

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Nov 1 at 2015 8:24 AM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 08:24:27 -0500

30 months will be fine, as long as we offset the Commander/CSM. In other words Commander X arrives, 15 months later the CSM X arrives....you get a better opportunity for growth for the unit and the Command Team.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Nov 1 at 2015 9:06 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 09:06:55 -0500

It's a tradeoff between longer tours for continuity and less leadership opportunities for other NCOs who want to be a CSM. That's basically a 20% reduction in the number of opportunities to be a CSM, at the expense of extended time in the job (for those who do get selected) and greater continuity (for the organizations). Personally, I think 24 months is enough time in the job, and that providing more leadership opportunities outweighs any continuity argument. Just offset the Commander and CSM rotations in alternating summers.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Nov 1 at 2015 9:13 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 09:13:23 -0500

I 100% support this, and would even like to see it pushed out to 36 months. There are certain positions where tenure/longevity make a really major difference. Top amongst these are CDR/CSM (either viewed as a team or individually). Especially for the first assignment at that level, there is a "breaking in" time required before units get the full value. Anything that allows a higher percentage of "full performance of duty" time is a step in the right direction.

On the flip side, it does mean that potentially fewer people will get placed in those roles - and that those who do will, on average, have to wait a bit longer.

On the whole, I prefer more "full performance" and less "got that block checked." I foresee the Army moving more in this direction as the drawdown continues.

(Same thoughts for the O side, while acknowledging that it would have a more detrimental career effect - O's get 28 years on average, while NCOs can run to age 60, if they are otherwise ok.)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 10:48 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 10:48:32 -0500

I would like to see this at the 1SG level as well.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 12:29 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 12:29:00 -0500

It's awesome! Stability for our families! Continuity for our units! It's a win all around!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 5:17 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 17:17:06 -0500

I am happy for the change. With the current 24 month lengths, not many got to stay even 24, especially those at BN, because they would move early. 30 month tours will at least get you two years at one location, and moving too often puts a huge strain on families.

Response by CSM Carl Cunningham made Nov 1 at 2015 11:39 PM

CSM Carl Cunningham — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 23:39:33 -0500

I am not sure I can give a great answer having never been through the process. It seemed to me that most BN CSM's I knew were competing for a BDE before they completed a year in their BN or even receiving an NCOER in position. I am not sure 30 months will change that but I wondered how the "right guy" could be selected with such little time.

Follow up questions: Do the 30 months apply to an activated alternate or does that depend "how" the alternate is activated?

With the new 30 month requirement, how will the board eligibility be looked at in the future? If two SGM's are selected on the same FY board, but have PCORD's 10 months apart, will their eligibility for future boards differ?

Thanks in advance for any answer you can provide.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 10:50 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 10:50:04 -0500

I believe that the 30 month CSL will work, but have we ignored the REASON why we are going to 30 months? Quite simply there are many of our peers who are not competing because, although most seem to like the CSL process, an equal number of us do not like the assignments process following the release of the CSL. If you stay out of the program you actually have a say as to your assignment. In the program you have ZERO options. A friend was on the last BDE CSL and is basically being forced to go to jump school (it is a TRADOC position and he had no idea it was an airborne position) or retire. He is 45, in great shape, but has no urge to prove that gravity works. He goes to jump school next month. If he wasn't in the program he could have called SGM assignments and worked a job where he could be productive to the Army and enjoyed his job. Many of us also have children who are in High School and the CSL precludes any hope of stabilization. You may make the list, but get sent to another post which causes you to decide to take the position unaccompanied so your kid can graduate in the same school, retire or come out of the program. I have a friend who was at Drum and his CSL assignment was at Hood. He had a friend at Hood (same branch) who wanted to stay at Hood. They called CSL branch and basically said, "We can save you a ton of money by just leaving us where were are and swapping our CSL assignments". They were told to accept the positions or retire. Not the smartest way to run a railroad. If you come out of the program you seriously risk QSP. Hopefully they figure out how they are going to manage our population better and this will fix itself.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Nov 3 at 2015 6:04 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 06:04:14 -0500

If the CSM is of high caliber quality, I see no reason why he or she shouldn't be there for the new time period. If the CSM is good to the troops like several I knew you will have good retention of troops.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:49 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:49:42 -0500

I BELIEVE IT WILL HELP OUT IN THE LONG RUN.Just get the Soldiers going to your understanding n 24 then it time to move on.So I believe it should be 36 months.But that just me

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 10:33 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 22:33:19 -0500

Also, I remember you when you were the 1SG at WLC at FLW. I was the EN DOTLD SGM.

Response by SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 4:32 PM

SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:32:29 -0500

I would like the opportuity to serve in one of these positions, but I need to get the promotion first. But I believe that a 30 month tour would be beneficial for the force and individual appointed.