What do you think is the correct way to handle female soldiers?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 12:38:48 -0400

I have some NCO's that are deployed and are having a hard time with the females over there. The females are essentially trying to do a mutiny against the NCO's giving all kinds of complaints such as, " he's treating me like he's my dad." or making sexual harrassment complaints to get them into trouble. I don't understand! In all my career I have never seen anything like that! Then the commanders are on the soldiers side, but whose looking after the NCO's? It just doesn't make sense...when did the Army become a free spirit? Your supposed to have discipline and they got these NCO's running scared. It's infuriating!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 1:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 13:18:15 -0400

When I had female soldiers under me I learned that the best way to handle them was to keep it directly by the books and as professional as possible. It took me a while to learn that if you give a soldier a inch then they will want a foot. They mess up counsel them. Put it on paper. As long as you follow the regulation when dealing with your soldier you can't go wrong.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made May 6 at 2014 2:03 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 06 May 2014 14:03:17 -0400

Unfortunately in todays Army, commands have to err on the side of the Soldiers, especially when it comes to anything remotely close to sexual harassment. Right, wrong or indifferent, heaven forbid you are a command team that didn't look into the accusation and it bears out to be true. Now, are there unscrupulous individuals of both sexes that will "play the game" to get what they want out of a situation, you bet your ass there are! But commands need to delve into the situations and punish those that are guilty of transgressions and also punish those that are bringing accusations that are false just to try and get their way!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 2:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 14:44:37 -0400

SGT Moreno

Male or female, Soldiers like the ones you mention should not be in the Army

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 6 at 2014 3:05 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 06 May 2014 15:05:41 -0400

This is why I always have a witness (or two) when counseling or correcting female Soldiers.. When accusations are enough to destroy a career, you have to take steps...

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made May 6 at 2014 3:43 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Tue, 06 May 2014 15:43:51 -0400

SGT Moreno

Why would you handle female Soldiers any different than male Soldiers when it comes to discipline?

If you've "never seen anything like that" before with male or female Soldiers, why would you feel the need to emphasize the fact they're women Soldiers?

Response by SSG Robert Burns made May 6 at 2014 3:46 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 06 May 2014 15:46:02 -0400

Not with your hands.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made May 6 at 2014 3:49 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Tue, 06 May 2014 15:49:20 -0400

Fair and equal treatment across the board. You cannot do one to one sex that you aren't doing to the other sex. I have had females working for me for/with me in many commands and as long as the treatment if equal there should not be any problems.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 4:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 16:31:45 -0400

SGT Moreno. This is a natural outcome of micro-managing the services. Politics with fanny packs opining over stuff they have no clue about.

Response by SFC Douglas B. Hull made May 6 at 2014 6:08 PM

SFC Douglas B. Hull — Tue, 06 May 2014 18:08:51 -0400

When I was in things were not much better. The WAC had been disbanded and segregation due to gender was being corrected. There isn't one answer to this question, a lot has to with the command environment. I was a Platoon Sgt. for a HQ Company of Female troops twice, for over 4 yrs total. I stuck up of them as I would any trooper, and tried to get them a even shake. Treated them with respect and had a female with me at all time as a protection. Back then there where more of the command who thought less of female in service let alone any where near combat. I was old school in that I believed if you took care odd the troops under you many problems would not show up. So I tried to teat every one the same way I wished to be treated. I didn't degrade anyone and tried to foster a environment of success. both professionally and socially. R ember this was the time of mandatory unit functions for all ranks, and you where responsible 24/7 for the actions of the troops under your command. so basically treating others the way you wish to be treated is the best way to work with anyone. the KISS principle also pertains here along with C YA. Avoiding situations that could be taken the wrong way and treating folks professionally works.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 6 at 2014 6:27 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 06 May 2014 18:27:50 -0400

There will always be those that find a way to Manipulate the system and in some situations that is easier to do than in others. In my line of work though I can see that would be a challenge, I'm a Technician and a lot of Senior Officers in my field are Female. In DC my OIC, AOIC and Dept Head all Female and more intimidating to the Females that I worked with than me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 7:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 19:26:58 -0400

Counseling and always be accompanied if the sm is doing what your saying.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 7:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 19:36:39 -0400

Sounds like your unit may need a strong female Senior NCO to fix this. The reason I say a female Sr NCO is because I think she would have better success mentoring those femail Soldiers.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 9:34 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 May 2014 21:34:52 -0400

I have never had woman Marines under my charge in my 9 years of active duty and only had 1 as a peer in a joint command who was a beast of a Marine. Now as a reservist, I have a handful of woman Marines under my charge who perform in the same manner as their male counterparts. I treat everybody the same and I have zero issues.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 6 at 2014 9:43 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Tue, 06 May 2014 21:43:24 -0400

Hmmm...tough one. Treat them as your equals. If you (as a male) have any doubts, ask your wife, mother or girlfriend. If you abuse my daughter and I find out, the VA does not give me enough medication to keep me from finding you. I learned to detach from killing along time ago - an old 11B thing.

I just heard that the incidence of male rape is now very high. Where is the saltpeter the Navy used to use? What is the problem with these people?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 12:46 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 00:46:12 -0400

I just spent a long time typing up my views on this but RP times out before I could post. I will readdress two of them. First, aside from some 670-1 differences in te wear of uniform and grooming there are practically no differences in the way you should "handle" (better word being lead) Female Soldiers. Second, I would hope that you treat every SHARP claim as a potential violation and ensure the Soldier seaking help is handed off properly to the right insivduals (I.e VA, Chaplain, or SHARP, Medical). Since the NCO's are innocent until proven guilty and as a leader you will not permit rumors to spread openly this should allow the Soldier seeking help recieve it. If for some reason ( and not yours to coclude) the Soldier ( as you notice I said Soldier not female or male Soldier) is putting out false claims, our system will conclude this and UCMJ will be upheld. I had written a lot more on this topic but have not the words a second time to write it again. Hopefully this sheds some light.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 7:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:53 -0400

I think it's time we accept the fact that the caliber of soldier and level of discipline coming into the army is sub-par at best. Don't, however, accept the behavior. Discipline all soldiers the same. The army painted itself into a corner when we cracked down on hazing to the extent it has been. People are scared of doing anything about ill-disciplined soldiers for fear of repercussions for their own careers. The best anyone can do now is paperwork. If that is our only option then use up the resource completely. When the army is understrength all across the board because we chaptered too many people from an abundance of Article 15's because that's all we could do then maybe something will change, and we could potentially go back to being a real army again.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made May 7 at 2014 8:55 AM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Wed, 07 May 2014 08:55:52 -0400

There are so many funny ways that I could answer this question...

Seriously, however, I treat females in uniform the same way I treat males. There was once a female that came into my shop and demanded that I treat her different, "because, I'm a girl", she said. I told her that as an E-5 I would treat her like I would any E-3. Again she comes out with, "but, I'm a girl". I said, "You're an Airman in the United States Navy". She went out of her way to avoid my shop after that

Response by MAJ Joseph Parker made May 7 at 2014 11:29 AM

MAJ Joseph Parker — Wed, 07 May 2014 11:29:47 -0400

This is a leadership issue that is quite easily solved. If this unit is deployed and the NCOs have enough idle time on their hands for this BS, then the unit either isn't in a combat zone or is not doing its job. I don't think it has anything to do with gender issues.

The commander needs to get these people real busy with their duties - 24/7. Overload them with operations and combat readiness training. Focus their energies on their jobs, their duties, and responsibilities to the point where they forget their pettiness or direct it elsewhere. Push them hard to be a unit.

This is leadership technique 101, folks (well, Leadership Technique 22-100, actually).

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 12:51 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 12:51:23 -0400

Great Topic SGT. I've heard horror stories similar to what you're describing. I've seen NCO's not correct female Soldiers because that female Soldier has a history of screaming "harassment", and they are afraid that there will be a case open on them. So at what point do the Commanders give the power to the NCO, the actual leader that deals with that Soldier day in and day out? because some of these Soldiers are taking advantage of a system that's meant for real victims.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 3:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 15:44:26 -0400

Respond to original question…This is when ta problem like this might need to get elevated to the SGM. Apparently these problems existed before the deployment.

Response by SSgt James Stanley made May 7 at 2014 4:45 PM

SSgt James Stanley — Wed, 07 May 2014 16:45:40 -0400

SGT Moreno, Now that someone has opened Pandora's Box and integrated female and male soldiers the sexual problem will persist. Putting both sexes in the same barracks is much like putting the fox in the hen house. With such an easy access to the females the male sex addict will not be able to control his desires. As long as NCO's have both under their authority there will be differences made between them. Just my opinion, but I think females were better off before they were integrated and under their own chain of command.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made May 7 at 2014 4:52 PM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Wed, 07 May 2014 16:52:15 -0400

Now, you see, I don't think that's a problem the Marines have, and I believe its because we are never allowed to slide out of anything because we are female, we are, first, and last, Marines.
Even as a lower NCO, if I even had a sense that any of my troops were pulling that crap, I'd have had them pulling the worst duty possible, just to remind them, that they are no different than any other Marine, and if that didn't cure them, I'd have a long talk with the OIC about giving them an attitude adjustment or 'freeing them from their enlistment' since they apparently cannot manage the job. Just saying.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made May 7 at 2014 4:57 PM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Wed, 07 May 2014 16:57:57 -0400

You know, I have to believe that these women in question, are taking advantage of the problems so many military units are having now, such as Lackland AFB, and so on.
Its become so, that just commenting on something can get a charge of Sexisim, just like correcting someone outside of your own race could have you being slammed as Racist.
Either charge is almost impossible to get clear of, and both are career killers, so... looks like some male NCO's are taking a way too nervous approach to correcting a female troop... that's just the way I see it, but of course, I could be wrong.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 10:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 22:40:44 -0400

If the situation seems like it will get tricky, simply have the counselor bring in a witness to to the counseling. Just make sure the witness knows they are only there as a witness and not to help with the counseling. I do this for those Soldiers who I know will likely present a problem. This has saved me on more than one occasion.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 11:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 23:09:32 -0400

This is why I am glad I am in the Infantry. I recall while at OCS I made the famales set up their own patrol base separate from the males. The next morning a female captain told I can't do that and that I have to include them with us. Shortly thereafter a male Officer Candidate mistook the CPT and walked up behind her and put his arm around her. He paid for that. And I was thinking and that's way I did it.

But to be honest they should be treated as a soldier as that is what they are. If they are not acting like a soldier than they would be treated accordingly with UCMJ or have direct supervision over them.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 1:08 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 01:08:48 -0400

My opinion is always have a battle with you when you handle situations. Unfortunately with the direction the army is going and the fact even a false accusation can ruin a career, that is the safest approach. This is just my opinion. I prefer to have one of my female NCO's accompany me when I am dealing with a female Soldier.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 8 at 2014 2:43 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 08 May 2014 02:43:24 -0400

SGT Moreno, DROP! JK (we are in the same BN). It doesn't hurt to have a witness. I am not afraid to correct a female. I have a female soldier, and I warned her to be careful when traveling in town by herself in El Paso and to lock her doors on her car. I only told her this because as a Criminal Justice practitioner with years of training and education I have studied crimes of all kinds, statistical data, and attempt to develop preventive measures to avoid certain situations. I am only inform my female soldier of the dangers and risk that exist not only on post but off post as well. I don't call her every other Friday night to make sure she is safe but like with my male soldiers I try to be aware of their plans for the weekends.

Response by SFC David Rush made May 8 at 2014 1:46 PM

SFC David Rush — Thu, 08 May 2014 13:46:15 -0400

The problem started when the Army adopted the problem Better Quality of life for Soldiers. This made the NCO's job harder.
Why should a leader have to ask a soldier to do something without being question by their Commander. NCO's today has it harder then the NCO's in the past in doing their job. But these can be corrected, if they stand together as one. And learn the law's of the new way. p.s, Army of One is like saying me only. (wrong)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 10:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 22:01:54 -0400

The correct answer is just like every other Soldier. No more, no less. There's a situation we just went through in my unit, and it didn't help that the investigating officer was biased in his investigation. Now the male NCO and female NCO that were investigated are working on getting exhonerated and continuing to hold the Soldiers to the standard

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 10:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 22:09:29 -0400

All genders should be treated equally. I have several females in my section and I treat they no differently. When it's time discipline their is no favoritism. The key is to always be professional and stick to your word. No deviation from the STANDARDS that should be followed by all Soldier's alike.

Response by PO2 Richard Etolen made Jun 22 at 2014 1:53 AM

PO2 Richard Etolen — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 01:53:38 -0400

A soldier, marine, sailor or airmen, is just that, regardless of gender. Treat them as such.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 1 at 2014 6:06 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 01 Jul 2014 18:06:48 -0400

same way as male soldiers

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 11:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 11:12:19 -0400

Always have a witness! And bring something to write their responses down! Then, do the counseling statement for insubordination! Keep writing them up, then comes demotion or put out of the military!

Response by SFC Douglas B. Hull made May 20 at 2015 4:27 PM

SFC Douglas B. Hull — Wed, 20 May 2015 16:27:39 -0400

why treat different I am Happy to say I was a platoon SGT. for over two years for a platoon of lady warrior's with no complaints, or charges bought up. this happen more than once in my service time. Now for your info I retired after 21 yr. 8 months in 1992, at that time it was frustrating to get great Soldiers recognized just because of their gender. I had seen the transition from WAC's to Soldiers , As a PFC I worked in transit processing the last WAC class. it took years to progress to same building billets. The Army then still had buildings constructed during WWII, we are talking one floor hospitals connected by wooden corridors filling over and acre, billies two stories 40 person open bay with two NCO room with the two biggest buildings being the post HQ, and the Commanders Housing. think how far you have come in a short time. NCO take care of their troops period , those troops are the foundation of your career and yore chances of survival in and out of combat.
A old CAV Trooper

Response by SFC Douglas B. Hull made May 20 at 2015 5:08 PM

SFC Douglas B. Hull — Wed, 20 May 2015 17:08:44 -0400

It is hard, no easy answer , the first problem is Jumping the chain of command, if the NCO's are not supported fully there isn't a chain of command . If a NCO is at fault, replace that individual. There is such a thing as battlefield promotions. Many Commanders forget that it is a two way street, not just making the tough choices but maintaining the support of those leaders below you. Do not make the mistake of training for training sake , it has never worked it is not fixing the problem just covering it up or saying it is not there. It was said when I was active that combat is moments of true chaos and fear fallowed by weeks of pure boredom But that is what a good chain of command becomes great or crashes and burns. .I was in service from 1971 to 1992, it was a time where fraging and harsh punishment where happening. And the decline of the NCO Corps. It was something to make SGT when I was first in , by regulation you had to have a Cmdr permission to marry and not before you where at lease a E5 . Using good leadership principles and support of fellow NCO's in the unit it can be turned around. But it requires the whole NCO chain. A NCO with out command support is blowing smoke in the wind. I was Plt. SGT and twice in my time I was over a platoon of ladies, these where 40 individual Platoons,. I had the trust of my NCOes under me and I supported them . Each time I was given the post because any complaint would be a career buster. This was a time when standing up for your ladies was a career buster also, an some individuals where taking advantage of the environment I had Five years as a Plt. Sgt with ladies and no charges give and in each case my Platoon presented me a Plaque of appreciation from the troops not the command. .

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made May 27 at 2015 11:16 PM

SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr — Wed, 27 May 2015 23:16:54 -0400

I've already me my required reading limit for today ... with reading comments from others I will just address the many question.

As a Male DS with female recruits we never allowed one on one contact. At a minimum the two soldiers to every NCO, when I could control the immediate control it was always two DS to every two recruits. Even better if we could get one of our female DS.

The key to fixing it would first not allow direct a single NCO with junior enlisted enforce a Battle Buddy policy so there is on one on one contact. The more present the more likely to truth will prevail and protect the NCO(s)

Response by SFC John Birks made May 31 at 2015 5:53 PM

SFC John Birks — Sun, 31 May 2015 17:53:18 -0400

I've seen it a few times and almost had it happen to me. After that I avoided those situations whenever possible, or had a female NCO take care of it for me.. It's a shame the NCO's can't do their jobs because of this....

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 18 at 2015 5:51 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:51:50 -0400

You treat female Soldiers EXACTLY, with NO SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS OR PRIVILEGES, like you treat a male soldier.

Bottom Line Up Front

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2017 8:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 20:50:11 -0400

I treat my male soldiers like I do my females, equally... Not one soldier is treated differently. They all get shitty details at one point.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2021 8:25 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:25:46 -0500

Half right.......... FACE

Response by SR Kenneth Beck made Sep 17 at 2021 3:42 PM

SR Kenneth Beck — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:42:00 -0400

In 1984 I was the electrical repair and motor rewind shop supervisor. This was the first time I had ever worked with female sailors. Prior to my arrival, the female sailors usually stayed in the shop, performing clean-up duties. I assigned the senior Petty Officers to oversee jobs, no mater the gender.
Several motor rewind school billets were available. I selected the senior E-3, to fill one of those slots. The young lady was one of the top motor- rewinders we had. Talent can not afford to be wasted.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Feb 18 at 2023 9:42 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sat, 18 Feb 2023 09:42:11 -0500

.
Just As I Handle Any Other Woman,
With Both Hands

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Feb 18 at 2023 4:20 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sat, 18 Feb 2023 16:20:05 -0500

To build a team it has to include everyone and the same treatment and expectations as well as Your own support for ALL the people that work for You male or female. When people all feel they are part of the same team and their honest effort counts the results tend to be very good and with troops all putting in as much effort as they can because they want to.