What do you think about those who can't make height and weight, then want to complain about it?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2015 16:01:08 -0400

We have Soldiers that have been on the Height and Weight Program and complain when they are taped and fail. Then go on a pampage and complain about failing tape. My thought is if you are that mad you are getting taped and are not happy with the results, what are you as a Soldier doing to prevent this? How is this anyone elses fault that you cannot maintain the proper requirements? I have a 7 month old baby, took my first APFT Record and did my height and weight, and passed them all. That is because I know I have to maintain the standard.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made May 18 at 2015 4:01 PM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Mon, 18 May 2015 16:01:59 -0400

Not much ... the individual doing this complaining should be taking a good, hard look in the mirror.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 18 at 2015 4:25 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 18 May 2015 16:25:57 -0400

Although Height/Weight is generally a "decent" indication of Health from a medical standpoint, it is far from perfect. It's a first look indicator more than anything else, especially when applied to the military who has so many more indicators at it's disposal, such as the PFT's, Personal Appearance Standards, Taping (supplemental standard), etc.

Now don't get me wrong, if you fail height/weight, and fail tape, chances are you are just outside of all the other regs as well (PFT et al), but just because you are inside those standards doesn't mean you are in good health.

We have to look at what these tests are actually designed to do. For whatever reason, many seem to think X = Y, when in actuality they exist for a specific purpose.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 9:03 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2015 21:03:21 -0400

I'm pretty simplistic this way.

Eat less; Exercise more.

Problem solved, problem staying solved.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 18 at 2015 9:41 PM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Mon, 18 May 2015 21:41:18 -0400

When i was active duty, we had many soldiers and ncos that shrank as they gained weight

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 18 at 2015 9:53 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 18 May 2015 21:53:50 -0400

It is people who would blame the system before they take accountability for themselves. Some folks are blind to the truth.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 10:21 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2015 22:21:35 -0400

Although I understand the argument of most, what do we do about Soldiers who make 300+ but bust tape? Are they too a fat slob who needs to eat less and exercise more. (True story)

Response by SSG William Sutter made May 18 at 2015 11:29 PM

SSG William Sutter — Mon, 18 May 2015 23:29:51 -0400

The Army considered getting rid of the weight control program a while back. It don't matter to me either way. If it's a standard then it's a standard. If a Soldier lacks resilience then we must provide the training to help them.

Response by COL John Hudson made Dec 18 at 2015 10:20 AM

COL John Hudson — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:20:07 -0500

Good on you, SSG Hess! That's the right kind of LEADERSHIP! My response...ignore them. As a Reservist, I had a career and family to support = little to no time for organized PT. I did my running at 2am in the morning; push-up and sit-up requirements in my living room just prior to running. As a young Captain, I earned 297 out of 300 PT points on my first Army PT test with a new unit I had been assigned to. In later years, I maintained all PT requirements in similar manner. During the Balkan conflict, I had two E-6s come to me wanting to file a formal complaint against their Company Commander for making them run in cold weather and they both failed the PT test. I pulled down the appropriate AR and advised them their CO's only requirement was to ensure they were wearing the proper cold-weather PT uniform...which he did. I then inquired as to how old they both were? "26 years old," they both responded. I told them in a very firm manner I was exactly twice their age at 52, had gone out on a colder day than they had and passed the PT test. I ordered them out of my office, take another PT test the following day, and report back to me with their results. One of them did exactly that and earned both my respect and admiration. The other E-6 failed to show up and I referred his name to the Company Commander for administrative action.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Dec 18 at 2015 10:29 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:29:52 -0500

I don't disagree with you. But I will say that this is an extremely difficult thing for some people to do. And unless you have issues with losing weight, then you probably don't understand just how hard it is. It's not like being told to get a haircut or clean your quarters up. Losing body fat / weight is a very individual thing with many different results. It is also directly linked to an individual's self esteem. I know a person who was discharged from the Air Force 24 years ago for weight failure. They have a whole different and perfectly normal life now, but they still get terribly upset about their failure whenever the issue comes up. Its not a simple issue.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 18 at 2015 10:49 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:49:50 -0500

You are absolutely right. It is only logical for a person to work the butt off to succeed and win.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2015 5:27 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 05:27:14 -0500

The way I see it is your job it to comply with the Height and Weight Program, if you value your job and wish to continue serving honorable you do everything you possibly can to comply. I admit, I don't agree with the standards completely but its my job to comply.

Response by COL John Hudson made Dec 19 at 2015 9:01 AM

COL John Hudson — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 09:01:23 -0500

I addressed this issue in another post, but will do so again after reading some of the responses here. Not meeting H/W standards is NOT a show stopper. There are exceptions to every rule and the H/W program embraces that with a 'taping' rule...but it doesn't end there. The COMMANDER is the last link in that chain. He/She has the authority to waive that result IF the service member meets the "eye" test...presents an acceptable military appearance - not slovenly or obviously obese, passes the PT test (note the word PASS - doesn't have to be a perfect score) - and performs a satisfactory function in the unit (would achieve at least a "meets expectation" efficiency report). Anyone out there that's borderline should make an appointment and talk to their top Unit NCO or Commander and address this - don't ignore it until it comes up and bites your backside. And don't forget the Reg offers a lengthy program to come up to speed, spread out over a period of months. How can anyone not believe in the fairness of this program? JCH

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 10:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:28:15 -0500

I have been taped for every APFT the army has given me with one exception. The first APFT my unit did in Kuwait after returning from 6 weeks in Iraq in 03, I made the weight by 1 lb.

Complaining is useless. Some soldiers just like to hear themselves whine I believe. These are usually the hardest to motivate to pass. Pick your battles and don't let them stress you is my advice.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 27 at 2016 10:36 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:36:32 -0500

Hope you are still doing well and setting an excellent example for others.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2017 6:04 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 06:04:07 -0400

When I was on active duty in the Air Force we had a 2LT who was over the weight limit. He went through a lot of grief and left the Air Force.

Yes, he was over the limit, but he had almost no fat. He went through a lot the medical procedures and it was confirmed he was an almost perfect physical person.

So, my answer is if you were in that position and were constantly harassed by folks who were in compliance but who were also much less physically sound than you what would you think about it?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2018 10:33 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 22:33:53 -0500

If you can physically do your job. You shouldn't be discriminated for how you look. It's your right to serve, period!

Response by SSG Grant Hansen made Nov 19 at 2018 6:05 PM

SSG Grant Hansen — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:05:47 -0500

Not once during my time in the military did I ever make my weight for my height. However, I easily passed my tape test.

How does that happen?

You actually have muscle on your bones and little fat. At my most fit I was 173 lbs and 5'7" tall. That's 8 pounds over my max and 18 over what the chart says was my ideal weight. However, the tape test said I was 15% bodyfat.

Honestly, the height weight standard is a joke. What you weigh means nothing. Being fit is far more important.

Response by MSgt Tess Ailshire made Feb 1 at 2019 1:37 PM

MSgt Tess Ailshire — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 13:37:24 -0500

I tried my damndest. Was always 1-2 lbs above max despite that. Though this was before today's deployment tempo, I volunteered to deploy, I volunteered for extra duty, and the service kept telling me to sit behind a desk for 8-9 hours a day. I could have stayed 2 more years, but why bother when I'm being told test scores, evals, and work ethic mean nothing compared to that 16 ounces?

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Mar 4 at 2019 2:51 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 02:51:51 -0500

Its not that hard to stay in shape, some exercise, not overeating, My height, weight and waste measure hasn't changed in 40 years, still 6'2" 195, waist between 34 and 35. I nevr had a problem with PT and even doing an Armed Federal contract with the Air Force already in my 60s still had no problem with the run, push ups, sit ups or any other part of PT. I never had to offer an excuse and had guys tell Me they did better after seeing an old guy like Me outrun people in their twenties. They told Me it inspired them. On that contract We had to still maintain the same physical standards as the active duty Military members did.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 4 at 2019 10:11 AM

SPC David S. — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 10:11:46 -0500

As a big guy - I think at time there are those that might not meet the standards but are in great shape I was 77" and 260 lbs - I maxed PT every time (Always ran the 2 miles in boots and BDU pants) but was borderline of failing tape test. While easy and cheap I feel its not always accurate.

Now for the butterball not in shape and complaining - step away from the jelly doughnuts and hit the gym and no complaining.

Response by LTC David Brown made Mar 4 at 2019 8:57 PM

LTC David Brown — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 20:57:46 -0500

I have often wondered about this. I am relatively thin so height and weight have never been an issue. I have had friends who struggled. One LTC was always on the edge and got counciled about the weight. Yet when a job needed going, a fellow officer needed to get squared away etc the over weight LTC was the go to person. I roomed with a Warrent Officer in Korea. An incredible individual, hard working, squired away soldier. He constantly worried because he looked a little “sloppy” in uniform. Every day he would pull on a knee brace, put on special shoes etc and go run. It was painful for him. Again he was a go to type person. Then we had complete A-holes who could not find their elbows being guided by a doctor, yet they were golden. I often asked “ if you went to war would you want to go with Neville Chamberlain who looked like a leader or Winston Churchill who was a leader.”

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Mar 5 at 2019 6:54 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 06:54:01 -0500

I missed my weight one year, they gave me a month to sort it out and after that I was always at least 10 pounds under. It can be done!

Response by COL John Hudson made Mar 5 at 2019 9:45 AM

COL John Hudson — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 09:45:09 -0500

SSG: From the IG Desk. The local COMMANDER rules the H/W roost. Too many service members (SM) take too narrow a view of the H/W program... a program that presently takes into consideration physiological changes in a human body by adjusting standards as one ages. Any SM may petition their Commander for a review of their own personal situation. If the SM presents an acceptable military appearance, performs satisfactorily in their duties, displays good attitude, etc, then a Commander has the authority to waive the negative result and permit the SM to continue. Consider, there are SMs born into this world who excel in P/T in all of its aspects. While we are fortunate to have such athletes on our team who top out P/T scores, it's not realistic to assume that ALL SMs can achieve the same results (hence our grading system). Our military P/T programs address this issue. Army Regulations also address those who make no effort to improve up to and including removal, including those who focus their failure on others instead of themselves.