What do you think about the US following in Israels foot steps and making it mandatory to serve two years at the age of 18?

Sgt Kelli Mays — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:27:12 -0500

http://newsblaze.com/story/ [login to see] 2145zzzz.nb/topstory.html
Personally, I think it's a GREAT idea. Once you turn 18 and if you are not a full time college student or disabled in any way etc....then both men and women should have to serve a minimum of two years.
I believe this would be great for the US...I think it will take the kids of today and tomorrow and instill some discipline into them...and maybe they'll learn humility.
It's working great for Israel and has been working for many years.
What say you RP members? Do you think this is a good idea or not?...and why?

Mandatory Military Service Works in Israel

A rite of passage in Israel, when one turns 18, is being drafted into the military. Men serve three years and women normally serve half that long.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Dec 15 at 2015 10:30 PM

SSgt Terry P. — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:30:04 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays Sounds a lot like the draft of my time.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Dec 15 at 2015 10:30 PM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:30:08 -0500

I think a lot of these "soft" kids today would find some reason to get out of a military obligation.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Dec 15 at 2015 10:38 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:38:23 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays Lots of countries do this. Russia, et al. I think it's a fantastic idea, and would really help with a lot of the sense of entitlement that Millennials seem to have....

....but, oh, the uproar if Congress really tried. It'll never happen.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 11:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 23:25:33 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays, This has been done in South Korea for a long time. I talked with some ROK's while in Vietnam and they told me if you don't have a plan after you get out of school, or don't have a farm to work, you go into the military as young as 16. They are a force to be reckoned with.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Dec 15 at 2015 11:34 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 23:34:31 -0500

I would support it. At least then, people would think twice about the next war they want to put "boots on the ground" for. Right now, going to war is good for "someone else" and "someone else's kids" - mandatory service would change that mentality.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Dec 15 at 2015 11:44 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 23:44:10 -0500

If we had enemies at all of our borders who intended to kill every man, woman and child in the USA then it might make sense for the USA to follow Israel's example of mandatory service for 18 year old men and women Sgt Kelli Mays
In the mid-1990's I supported a USAF FMS contract which provided direct support to the IDF. Israel has east to west borders which are much more narrow than Delewares.
Perhaps if we bring in 100 million more muslims into this nation with 20 percent who would love to kill us then we would be in a similar situation as Israel.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 16 at 2015 2:01 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:01:53 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays, we had the draft when I was 18, and it is a two-edged sword. On the positive side you get a lot more people exposed to the realities of world policy and conflicts so that they will have a more responsible outlook on politics for the rest of their lives. You also have a military made up of citizen soldiers that would act as a check against governmental overreach such as we saw with the gun confiscations following Katrina. There are orders that a citizen soldier would not carry out against fellow citizens that a professional military might; this was the reason the Founding Fathers mistrusted a standing army.

On the negative side, the draft brings in people that really don't want to be there and which become a disciplinary problem which degrades force effectiveness. We saw that in Viet Nam when there was widespread drug use, mutiny under fire, and fragging of officers and senior NCOs. In I-Corps in 1970 it was against regulations for officers or senior NCOs to ride in closed top vehicles even in a monsoon - there needed to be a quick way out if their men tossed a grenade in with them.

Today's all-volunteer military is probable the best military we have ever fielded, but it is relatively small and has been worked to the breaking point from multiple combat tours close together. Since they also represent less than 1% of the population our military is increasingly subject to an us vs. them relationship with the civilian population.

Overall, I favor the draft as a means of educating the civilian population into the duties of citizenship more than as a means of meeting our defense requirements.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Dec 16 at 2015 2:06 AM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:06:16 -0500

We are not the Israeli Army or Israel.

Nor with the required end strength authorized by the nation capable of affording that bill. We have the capacity to grow fairly quickly; however, to maintain a military force as a "rite of passage" is currently not cost effective... Nor in my humble opinion... in the best interest to the American people. I provide this submission based on need and requirement. There is no mandated need for a force that would require every 18 being inducted into the service. If there is no need... Then why burden the American people with the financial burden?

As for the youth being soft... That is hollow. They are no softer the i was at 18... And they are a hell of a lot smarter and agile. I know.... I see them everyday.

My 2 cents

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 2:21 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:21:44 -0500

Eh. I used to think this was a fair idea, but personally, I think it flies in the face of the very freedom we protect. The government shouldn't have the right to involuntarily hijack any number of years of a person's life for anything less than a crime.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Dec 16 at 2015 7:33 AM

CW4 Guy Butler — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 07:33:00 -0500

This has been an on again/off again debate for years (anyone remember President G.H.W. Bush's "thousand points of light"?). Generally, every time the idea of compulsory national service comes up, there's a counter that it would be nothing more than "paid volunteerism" and actually damage "true" volunteerism. The latest I found (admittedly, I didn't look that hard) is from the Heritage Foundation in 2010:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/10/19/compulsory-national-service-would-undermine-the-american-character

Compulsory National Service Would Undermine the American Character

Government-directed “volunteerism” belittles authentic volunteerism.

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Dec 16 at 2015 8:07 AM

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:07:37 -0500

NO! I do not want anything but an all volunteer military. Although I believe many kids would benefit from the military experience, it would more likely bring us down. There is a huge difference between a country which is effectively at war on their own soil vs ours which has yet to experience the violence going on there. Those are the times where I would then agree a draft or mandatory service for all eligible adults would be necessary.

To force mandatory service you have to consider how we will pay and employ the huge number of troops we would then have. Sorry but I don't want my tax dollars working to sustain such a thing.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Dec 16 at 2015 8:27 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:27:24 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays I think it would be a good thing for America's youth (both women and men), but it will never happen in this country - just my opinion!

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Dec 16 at 2015 8:55 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:55:46 -0500

I served during and after Vietnam. THEN, I was very much in favor of abolishing the draft and going to an all volunteer force. My POV has changed and in fact is now 180 out from that stance. We have succeeded n raising a generation of single-minded, self-absorbed, spoiled bastards! NOW, We should make two years of military service MANDATORY for all persons upon reaching the age of 18. Even those persons designated as "handicapped" would not be exempt. Unless that individual is totally incapable of communication or being productive, everyone serves. The only allowable deferment would be for an individual who is the sole support of a family.

It's time to reassert our position as the world's premier super power.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Dec 16 at 2015 9:44 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:44:48 -0500

This in my opinion is an outstanding idea! They will get a little discipline and hopefully get a skill set that can be used outside.

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made Dec 16 at 2015 9:59 AM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:59:33 -0500

Public service of some kind would be great and give everyone a start on what life is like, not just going to college which is really just high school 2.0

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 16 at 2015 10:24 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:24:17 -0500

It won't help. All the well to do entitled, whiny kids that truly need military service will just pull a Bush and end up in the Air Guard to avoid any actual service...

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Dec 16 at 2015 10:43 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:43:18 -0500

It would be like the draft system of old. The elite and politically connected would have exemptions and the middle/under class would be cannon fodder. Our all volunteer force is the best way to go, unless there is a real national threat such as WWI/II. Its like the Obama ad for the Peace Corps being great and yet no one in the family is interested. A politician in the past made a statement regarding the Catholic Church (tongue in cheek commnet), "You no playa the game, you no maka the rules".
A National Service commitment, with no exceptions would be acceptable to me, that would result in college credit. But, again, we all know who would bet the best service jobs available. The rest of us would get the scraps. Darn, I'm in a good mood today.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Dec 16 at 2015 10:57 AM

SSG Michael Scott — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:57:53 -0500

I say hell yeah. It will weed out the hero's from the cowards. It would decrease crime, gun volience, and retort respect.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 16 at 2015 11:11 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:11:22 -0500

There was a time when I strongly advocated a program of mandatory national service for all youth upon graduation from high school or age 18, whichever occurred later. Now, I'm hesitant. Can we make effective use of a cheap labor pool of untrained youth? Can we undo the damage of 18 years of entitlement mentality? (Would you like to be the leader tasked with that job?) Then there's the political issue of would such a program merely provide political leaders with an opportunity to indoctrinate these youth into their peculiar brand of ideology? They already have a theater for propaganda with those who attend college. Mandatory federal service would provide them with a similar theater for indoctrinating those who don't go on to college. Like I said, I'm now seeing downsides to this proposal that I hadn't seen before.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 11:27 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:27:00 -0500

As much as I would like for the rest of our men and women to pull their weight, i don't think that it would benefit us as a military (foremost) or as a nation. We already allow in so many bad servicemembers that just collect paychecks, why would we want some of the ungrateful, immature college kids who have had everything given to them? I just don't see it working out very well.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 11:51 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:51:56 -0500

Nope. Those two countries have complete different histories and challenges. Where would we put all those fresh bodies? I believe most of the branches are shrinking due to DoD budget cuts.

Then, it would be really delicate to compare the US population size with Israel's. According to the U.S Census Bureau, 7% of the American population falls in the age group 20-24. That represents more than 21M persons. Last estimation (2012) listed also 7% of the Israeli population in the same group, but that only equals less than 600k persons.

Moreover, you need to consider the geopolitic context. When was the last time we had been in need for soldiers to defend our national soil? I'm not talking about deployments.

Finally, today's conflicts aren't won by superior firepower but highly depend on intelligence and cyber. The idf's largest unit is שמונה-מאתיים (Shmoneh-Matayim, Unit 8200), a highly technical SIGINT unit. When 20% of our kids don't graduate high school (Dep. of Education), what place for them in tomorrow's Army?

There is a large consensus that the military instills discipline and humility. This is true. However, regarding the Army, its first goal is to fight, and win (SMA Dailey made a great speech about it during AUSA 2015). We can't do that with an inefficient army. A two years mandatory service will be inefficient, especially if it is modeled on the Israelis.

Response by PO3 Brad Phlipot made Dec 16 at 2015 12:19 PM

PO3 Brad Phlipot — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 12:19:32 -0500

I feel in doing such a thing many more folks would feel the sense of pride and service. I also feel they would learn a bit more about this great country and how fortunate they really are. If they do not serve in the Military they should have to serve in something that takes them overseas and exposes them to real life.................. maybe the Peace Corps or Doctors without borders? Just to have them see how very different life is around the world. After 2 yrs they may have a further understanding and direction they wish to go before attending college on Mom and Dads dollar only to party their cans off and blow a year of tuition away. (I had two stepsons do this in college, now they are doing awesome. Just cost me a fortune though lolol).

Response by SSG Ray Strenkowski made Dec 16 at 2015 1:09 PM

SSG Ray Strenkowski — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 13:09:21 -0500

This question presents itself every few years. My view hasn't changed much in all the times i've heard it...

It may sound great - but in reality would hurt readiness and remove all pride we as veterans have in our volunteer services.

I won't go on and on, however just think about all the good soldiers and NCO's who would be relegated to babysitting shirkers, criminals and crybabies instead of fulfilling their mission.

Most of the Armies of other countries who implement mandatory service also implement corporal punishment (ex: ROK Army). They literally beat you if you don't do what is required. Our country isn't going to do that...

Response by SMSgt Emo McParland made Dec 16 at 2015 1:13 PM

SMSgt Emo McParland — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 13:13:10 -0500

This is going to be a very unpopular statement; BUT HELL YA get them lazy People off the computers, XBOX, PS-4 ...get my point & put them in The Military. The AMA states the obesity among 17-25 year olds at levels never seen befor WTF

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 16 at 2015 1:20 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 13:20:27 -0500

While I like the idea that there is are responsibilities that come with citizenship as well as rights, I don't think the Israeli model will work for us.....even if the only reason is that our population is much larger than Israel's and the amount of people we would have to process in every year.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Dec 16 at 2015 3:27 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 15:27:17 -0500

Nope:

1. There are simply not enough billets to do this. We have a million man military (give or take). There are lots of people that stay in so the number of slots per year are pretty small.
2. Many/most of these folks would simply screw up the military worse than it already is today
3. We live in a free country, no one should be compelled to serve except during a time of national crisis perhaps.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 16 at 2015 3:28 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 15:28:18 -0500

I think that it is a good idea provided they are screened (mentally and physically), more years as 2 years is pretty easy. or else they have to spend time serving in the hospital, something that serves their local communities. Police and fire or emts as well, provided they are screened (mentally and physically)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 4:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:07:19 -0500

I think it's a terrible idea. I want to serve with people who want to be there and who have a genuine sense of duty and pride.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Dec 16 at 2015 9:33 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 21:33:38 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays Got a little disagreement from me - ALL after 18yrs of age, regardless of college and disability would have to really be extreme, because it shouldn't be limited to military service, community service will count as well, like working at a care center, hospital, road work, etc, I think you get my meaning. Anything that will support the local community. This would also cut some fat out of the budges as well (but some would bitch about this). There's a lot disabled people can still do for their country. NO IFS, ANDS or BUTS!! Everyone needs to give something back, then maybe more would open their eyes.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 8:33 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 08:33:11 -0500

I think one of the benefits that we have as a nation is that we are not surrounded by severe threats to our national security. Israel and South Korea are smaller countries with smaller populations and bigger threats. We are stronger because our military is a volunteer service, attracting those who want to serve. While obviously making mandatory 2 year service would certainly help mature and grow young people, I think the backlash would be far worse. We have enough issues today with drug use, sexual harassment, and toxic leadership, and those are with people who actually wanted to join the military in the first place. Mandatory enlistment should only be utilized in severe national security emergencies, in my opinion at least.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 17 at 2015 11:16 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:16:34 -0500

It will infuse pride into the military and the nation.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Dec 17 at 2015 12:52 PM

SPC Donald Moore — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:52:57 -0500

Sgt Kelli Mays - Your idea would put about 4 million new recruits a year int the military. If each of them only stays for the 2 year minimum, it would increase the total size of the military by around 8 million members. Current total of all branches (as of 2013) is 1.4 million. So, you want to make the military almost 6 times the current size? Really? Did you actually think about this?
The Israelis have a much smaller population and therefore need a proportionally higher percentage of personnel in the military.
The US is in no way equipped to accommodate that many personnel in service. A system like this was a total failure in the Soviet Union before it fell apart. Too many people in the military makes you need to "make work" for them and it costs the country a ton of money. The ridiculous military spending that the Soviets did was part of the reason for their collapse and the US needs to scale back spending on all fronts (social programs, foreign aid AND the military industrial complex) before we suffer an economic collapse also.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 7:07 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 07:07:14 -0500

I feel like it should be a mandatory thing, but as a wider requirement, and not just military. Police work, firefighter, hospital intern, etc.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 9:35 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:35:24 -0500

It sounds good, but I don't think it's practical, in terms of financially and by the sheer number. Israel has to do it, since they have just over 8 million people, and surrounded by enemies, constant cycle of violence, etc.... More justifiable, needed and feasible for them.

There could be an alternative plan, to perhaps have more troops on some sort of standby, but I think anyway we come about it, it would be a fiscal and practical issue.

Without any grave/larger threat, I don't think we really need mandatory conscription, since not everyone is for the military, and the potential backlash you would have from recruits/pooles trying to get out of it, criminal/medical/mental issues, drama, etc... I mean, we have enough of that in the current service, in my opinion - too many people getting separated at all levels for, predominantly trivial crap, thus costing DoD to process those people out needlessly..

Note, this doesn't include people with real problems that the best course for them is to get out..

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 10:22 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:22:12 -0500

It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. but we have to look at all the viewpoints and decide on what would entail within the 2 yr service requirement. It may remove some privileges we may already have that we want to keep.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 10:22 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:22:36 -0500

I believe that everyone should at least serve once in their life, especially the younger generation of "everyone wins a trophy" generation.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 10:55 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:55:58 -0500

no ... we don't force our citizen to do anything .... that was our core belief. (sigh, too bad ... I still hope we come back to that core ...)

The world won't be better. It is just another indoctrination process for the government, so I disagree. Let people have the freedom to choose. Just like school choice, let them choose.

Israel is a different story, it is about survival.They got to have all able man to join into the fight when needed. So all able man must be trained, therefore such policy is enacted. Same with Taiwan, Singapore... that is the two that pop out from my mind.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Dec 18 at 2015 12:57 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 12:57:28 -0500

I think IF you want to do something like this, then there are no exceptions. Plenty of ways to serve without being in the military. The differences between the United States and Israel are too many to list but I think the blow back would be something I would not want to be in the middle of?

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Dec 18 at 2015 1:02 PM

SSG Gerhard S. — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:02:27 -0500

Though for many, the Military is a positive experience, it is important to note that our military is a voluntary one. Making it mandatory is not service, but rather servitude. One has to also consider the cost, and complexity of taking 10 million 18 year olds out of the workforce, or colleges EVERY year, and then keeping them out of the workforce, and college for 2 or more years. Forcing young adults to work for the benefit of others without their consent is slavery in my opinion, and an institution we should not attempt to reincarnate. Regards.

Servitude: 1. a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life (Merriam Webster dictionary)

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 18 at 2015 3:23 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:23:37 -0500

Fantastic idea. Many countries used to have mandatory service. Until recently Germany had it. If for some reason you could not serve in the military, you had to serve in some other government capacity, like social programs. EVERYONE should be required to give back in some way to this great nation of ours.

Response by SFC William "Bill" Moore made Dec 22 at 2015 7:41 AM

SFC William "Bill" Moore — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 07:41:59 -0500

it has been proven many times that when the need arises, Americans will answer the call. As much as I would like to see everyone benefiting from military training, I would not want to mandate it until "the need arises."

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2016 3:26 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:26:47 -0500

I'm against. I joined in '79 and we still had draft leftovers from the Vietnam War. Making someone serve does not always have good results. Many who were drafted were problem children. Unless we have problems staffing the ranks during time of war, I say no to mandatory servicebb

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2016 12:44 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:44:18 -0500

If you haven't already, read Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers. Don't watch the movie, it is lame. But the concepts of mandatory service so you can have rights and access to services is brilliant. Read the book and you';; see what I support.