What do you think about promotions to Sergeant (E-5) without going to a board?

2015-08-10T13:50:13-04:00

I have met several E-5s who got an automatic promotion when they changed their MOS and never had to face a board. What do you think about this? What do you think of the NCOs who get promoted this way?

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 10 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-08-10T13:52:18-04:00

I said it in other threads so I'll say it here, the board is a great way to test the future NCO's ability to prepare him/herself and as well to see how they deal with working under pressure.

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Aug 10 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-08-10T13:52:59-04:00

Promotion should never be automatic!!!

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Aug 10 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-08-10T14:02:19-04:00

I think another question to ask is why is this done for promotion only to SGT and SSG?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-08-10T14:09:57-04:00

Let me go first then I was promoted after I was boarded in the MP world.. As an high-speed E-4 I had a lot of confidence and strong leaders that trained me well and allowed me to exercise my leadership on my own, and was placed with much responsibilities as a specialist. through my assignments I saw E-4 get their strips without boards. Pro ; good for them, welcome to the ranks, and finally!!!,many E-4 battle hard enough to get some respect especially veterans E-4 and team leaders with none on their shoulders. Cons; some didn't receive proper leadership skill to develop a fully functional NCO such as proper paperwork filling , trouble shooting weapons, staff meetings, on and off duty post regulation awareness, your every day issues, enhancement training ,career progression. Etc the list could go on... So my solution is when ever I see that on a NCO I square that away and show them the ropes like I was shown back then and not harp on how they got promoted with boarding. I do hope it can be in implemented to weed out the weak ones by potential and leadership skill experience.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 2:44 PM

2015-08-10T14:44:58-04:00

The Marine Corps promotes to both Cpl and Sgt this way. For SSgt and above we are boarded by representatives from all MOSs at HQMC. It works as long as your leadership in engaged in both the counseling and mentoring process as they develop subordinates. It also takes a long time to get promoted in the Marine Corps I was in for 27 months before I became a Cpl and I was two months shy of my six year mark before I was promoted to Sgt. It took a long time and I had a lot of experience before I advanced along. You need to learn to follow before you can learn to lead!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 3:55 PM

2015-08-10T15:55:52-04:00

SSG(P) Drew Hunnicutt ,
I had seen a Soldier get promoted in the unit recently without going to the board. That same Soldier I had found later asleep at their desk later that day. I'm not a fan of this.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-08-10T16:40:03-04:00

I shall prepare for the comments but...10 years ago I got pinned E-5 automatically when I converted to 79R (permanent recruiter). There was a great number of times that I felt like I was set up because I couldn't answer or I didn't know how to do things that a SGT should know how to do. I can still see the look on a CPL I worked with face when I asked how to do a counseling....he thought I was pretty dumb.
On the other hand it really did force me to learn so I could catch up and get ahead so when I was ready to face the E-6 board I could nail it (and I did).
Is every NCO who gets an automatic promotion going to be the best NCO ever...no. Is every NCO who gets promoted by the board going to be the greatest NCO ever...no. Does the board really dictate who is ready...I don't know. Does having the ability to regurgitate information make you a good leader? I've had NCO's that were excellent board babies that I wouldn't follow into a grocery store and I've had NCO's that suck at boards but could do their job like no ones business.
I can't say automatic promotions are right or wrong, I know I feel I've earned mine (be it after the fact) and each one since. Regardless you can't judge an NCO by how they got there but by how they behave once they did.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-08-10T16:59:15-04:00

It is very interesting to see this question being asked because even though I am in this situation right now, I have never thought about what others may think about those of us who earn automatic E-5.
I am a student at the Prime Power School and upon graduating, in two weeks, I will be automatically promoted to SGT because there is no slot for E-4 and below in MOS 12P. I do not believe that I would have been accepted to the prime power school if I did not at meet the minimum requirements to be promoted to SGT. I have never been to a board, but apparently that is not a requirement to be promoted. However, it will ultimately be up to me to prove my worth at my next unit and to show that I am capable of being a professional NCO.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Aug 10 at 2015 5:17 PM

2015-08-10T17:17:43-04:00

Before everyone gets on the tangent that these promotees are substandard, I challenge you to slow your roll, there is real utility in this option.

I see the real benefit when we are engaged in combat operations. Regardless, the leadership must recommend the Soldier AND the commander validates the recommendation with a signature, EVERY MONTH until the promotion becomes effective, so there are opportunities to remove this recommendation along the way (which would include a board appearance or a BAR to reenlistment.) A practice we've used (when this was recommended downrange) was to ensure those promotable Soldiers an opportunity to appear in front of a board when we returned from combat operations...this is not a bad system if used as it is intended!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 5:20 PM

2015-08-10T17:20:37-04:00

For some Soldiers it gives them a push that they may have needed. For others I believe it is detrimental. Its all a case by case basis.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-08-10T21:38:01-04:00

I was promoted to SGT without ever seeing a board. My unit was deployed in Afghanistan and we were on a small COP and separated by a 30-45 min convoy to the Battalion FOB. The CMD team decided that it was not worth the risk to have Soldiers travel and put lives at risk for a promotion board. The policy was the packet was put together and sent to the BN FOB with recommendations from the PSG and 1SG. It would then be reviewed and approved by the CSM. Never made me any less of an infantry team leader or SQD leader for that matter. However there was a rude awakening as my first board in my 6yr career at the time was the SSG board.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Aug 10 at 2015 10:09 PM

2015-08-10T22:09:37-04:00

I would take issue with this board at face value, because the board members are not in Class A, as are the soldiers being boarded. I say this, unless there was a reason that the troop came in with Class A, such as to set himself apart etc. Otherwise, if the requirement for the troop is for Class A, everyone on a board that I run will be in the same uniform. I believe that if everyone puts in the same effort, the Board has a more serious tone.

That is all.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Aug 11 at 2015 10:12 AM

2015-08-11T10:12:53-04:00

I was a SP 5 who. Had to go to a board to make SGT. I think all NCOs should be boarded.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Aug 11 at 2015 11:21 AM

2015-08-11T11:21:57-04:00

In the National Guard their is and isn't a board per-say. I was active duty and have been to a couple of boards. Soldier of the year and OJT board for battalion. I clam p in boards, just like on tests. Does that mean I don't have the Knowledge? OR does that mean I just get so nervous in front of the CSM that I get brain Freeze. We have to put our packets together and then they go in FRONT of a board along with the same recommendations, but the board chooses who gets promoted. They decide who gets what points and moves to the top of the list and is ranked in what position based on the points that where earned and given. Also where in the Training schedule that is already packed for two days, with enough things that barley gets done, to do a board? Especially when the Battalion is spread all over the state. Small state like Rhode Island sure, state as large as Texas, Not going to happen. Barley get paid as it is let alone drive 12 hrs to the other side of the state and NOT get reimbursed mileage or food or lodging. On a drill Check. I would retire as a Command Specialist Major if that is the way it is going to happen! LOL

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-08-11T12:10:35-04:00

All E-4s should attend the promotion board because it not only measures general military knowledge, it measures your level of confidence. When you lead Soldiers and give those tasks, instructions, or directives, you have to be confident. You have to be able to speak to higher ranking personnel, clearly and concisely. If you are nervous and second guess your answers during the board whether it is correct or not, what will the Soldiers think when you lead them and you second guess your decisions.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 12:12 PM

2015-08-11T12:12:44-04:00

I think the Board has validity. But I would like to see it done differently.
If my Commander and I send a Soldier to the Promotion Board, who is another 1SG to judge differently.
There a stress value to the board, but all to often I have seen other 1SGs not understand the difference between a Soldier/NCO of the Year board and a Promotion board and ask just plain off the wall questions. Why would a Supply Soldier give two damns about C4ISR? They are two separate processes.
If I had my way ( don't we all say this to ourselves), The board would happen at the company level. The PSG and PL would make the recommendation. The board would consist of the PSGs, 1SG, CO, and XO. Those individuals would truly know the soldier and have a vested interest in seeing his potential.
I don't think a question and answer session best gives us a potential evaluation. A lot of Soldiers are great at giving book answers. I want to see a Soldier wishing to be a future team leader walk me through a re-section on a map, give me a quick PMI with a weapon system, or perform another Team leader task in the technical realm. They might not get these all correct, but that is okay. The Army promotion doctrine is Select, Train, Promote (STP). Seeing where a Soldier is at in Team Leader tasks would help gage potential. Couple the potential with judgement of past performance, and you should get a good cut of the cream.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-08-11T12:23:17-04:00

With SSD, WLC, and pther classes, I think its fine. Memorizing a bunch of history and reciting it to the board is simple. Beimg an NCO takes work and experience. That is shown everyday in and out of uniform.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-08-11T12:43:08-04:00

I believe Becoming an NCO should never be automatic regardless of how "squared away" the SM is. Becoming an NCO takes a lot of work and dedication. There is a great sense of pride, and I believe I can speak for everyone here that has gone to promotion boards that there is no greater feeling than knowing that you passed the board. That you've put in the effort, you've gone the extra mile, you've proven you're ready to become an NCO and all of it has paid off and you've earned it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-08-11T12:59:52-04:00

Going to a board is way more then memorizing a bunch of history or any of the other excuses or straight falsehood that have been presented here. If you clam up in front of a CSM you probably need some more time as a SPC. If you think it is only about memorizing history then you are not a good soldier or are lacking in respect for the military. The board is an important part of the military, it allows the current NCO core to look at prospective new members and helps them decide if they will make the NCO core a better organization. If you cannot talk to a CSM at a board how are you as a SGT, SSG going to be able to tell a CSM that his plan or idea is flawed and not going to work? You may need to do that sometime and freezing in front of him simply because he has a few more stripes could get someone hurt or cause a mission to fail. If you think that memorizing a bunch of history is all the board is and have no understanding of that history or any respect for it or that it needs to be remembered you should let your contract run out and get out. One of the great things about the military are the traditions and the history of its branches. If it were not for the ones that came before us we would not be here, forget that or disrespect that and you sully the actions they took to preserve the freedoms we have and continue to serve to protect. The NCO board is a valuable tool to decide if a SPC has what is needed to lead and to be a part of the NCO core, get rid of it and you might as well just give three stripes to every SM at Boot graduation.

Response by SSG Kristell Lee made Aug 11 at 2015 1:11 PM

2015-08-11T13:11:29-04:00

I don't like automatic promotions, but I have a soldier who is squared away, definitely NCO material. She's great at training others, like she owns that room, and she is an expert at her job, and she's always taking care of and squaring away her battles, but she is a train wreck in front of a board. She performs great under pressure but she cannot even remember the soldiers creed in a board. I think there should be exceptions for those kind of soldiers.

Response by SSG Mathew Ada made Aug 11 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-08-11T13:17:14-04:00

If a person can prove that they are a leader in any given field then let them have their shot, but they must also be proficient in their skill set. To me, this is a reenlistment incentive to draw people towards some needed or unpopular MOS. This could bring in potential, but can also bring in some garbage. I think NCO's should be experts in their fields, as they are the leaders and motivators for future soldiers. If they are not, then they need to learn their job to the point of expertise or not lead at all. Leadership is a be, know, do attitude. You can be in a leadership position and not know your job, thus you can't do the job as a leader. Long story short, I wouldn't automatically promote. They need to learn their profession.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 1:23 PM

2015-08-11T13:23:05-04:00

For those wearing corporal rank and are just waiting on a board this is a great program and benefits the unit greatly. For those 10 year e4's that don't even want to be promoted, it is poision to the NCO corps. I wish there was a way to vet those who qualify.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-08-11T14:03:18-04:00

absolutely not -not at this day and age so many are passing by because of lack of counseling and leadership trying to be ((nice)) instead of holding soldiers accountable for what they do ...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 2:10 PM

2015-08-11T14:10:05-04:00

I am going to assume that this is AD, because in the reserves you don't face a board but your packet is still reviewed by a board of 1SG's

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 2:14 PM

2015-08-11T14:14:17-04:00

That's a great question! I have just existed out of the Army, so happy but so sad. I truly love the military and wish I had never PCS or wish that branch would have moved me as requested or career counselor would have put in my request to change MOS to move on but no the change for 12 years to 8 years happened later and Army needing sergeants was automatically promoting but are first sergeant didn't see it that was so he did what you call a blanket counseling for everybody who could of gotten promoted so that ended all hope. After being in for 7 years I was tired of being lied to about going to the board or being pushed or something like new platoon sergeant and having a shitty staff sergeant! Seen many! My first duty station I worked very hard and earned my waivers and after deployment since my E6 didn't want to back me but my platoon daddy did asked if I wanted to go to the board before PCSing, I should have said yes! But I really did have my hands full and wanted to move on for better leadership and wanted WLC first. I came into the Army at 28, I was a manager before with lots of experience as a leader but as an 11B I wanted to know it all before being a Sergeant, I did all I could from online classes to asking for all the classes I could but once getting to my new post I learned that I wasn't liked right from the start and it carried over to new leadership so once I showed them so they were gone and I had no support for going to the board, I know I'm not the only case. After 7 years, 2 deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq plus getting to go to Japan and Indonesia, with all the skills the Army has giving me you would think that they would try to keep me. I have never received a negative counseling even though I had leaders that wanted to break me (in their words). So something needs fix so I don't ever have to see someone get ripped up like me!

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-08-11T14:19:34-04:00

This must be active duty because in my four years I haven't seen anyone in my unit go to a board and we have had at least 8 people gain a new NCO rank without going to a board and that includes me myself just being promoted as a SGT a month ago just because a slot was open across the state. However in my duty MOS 91D I have learned on the drill side as well as being a full time technician in the MA ARNG, a lot and am very confident I can lead the soldiers in the new unit I am going to start drilling at in September.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-08-11T14:53:59-04:00

I think it's wrong! I have an E-4 who is getting promoted to E-5 Sgt and he is no where near ready. Last week he got mad and tossed his helmet acrossed the parking lot. I knew once they stopped needed a counseling from there squad leader recommending them to be promoted I thought that was unwise. Who is going to know better then there squad leader if a soldier is ready for the next step becoming an NCO.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 4:26 PM

2015-08-11T16:26:15-04:00

I think the board is a ridiclous way to test a future NCO's potential. Getting away from the promotion because of numbers problems we have, there are far more practical ways to test a future NCO's potential to be a leader than a board of questions. Let's make individual STX lanes for soldiers to test skill level 1, 2, and 3 tasks. Let's test their will power and drive by making this a 24 hour or 12 hour event. But a series of questions?

Bottom line: Instead of answering the knowledge how I would act to contact, let's make our future leaders demonstate how they wuld actually react to contact.

Response by SPC Jason Gerhardt made Aug 11 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-08-11T17:58:42-04:00

I feel the board to e-5 is wrong. Your direct line should recommend you and have it signed by battalion. The two boards i failed to be promoted at. They are more like hazing and unprofessional to say the leaste. My peers and seniors can depend on me and want me promoted but a panel of judges who are not with me day to day ruined my career in conjunction with nco crew that probably should have there rank questioned. In all i feel no board for promotion to E-5

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 6:51 PM

2015-08-11T18:51:37-04:00

I believe in order to get promoted to Sgt they should have to go to a promotion board and complete WLC. This way they at least have an idea as to what an NCO should be and do. I have seen to many automatic promotions to personnel that have no idea what an NCO should do.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 7:17 PM

2015-08-11T19:17:09-04:00

I'm going to have to go against the grain here and it might even ruffle a few feathers so here goes. I served from May 98 to Nov 2011 as an Infanteer in the 1st Battalion The Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire, now known as 2nd Batalion the Yorkshire Regiment which is part of Kings Division in the British Army. I left as a full Cpl equiv to that of a SSGT here which by the way I'm Infantry again in tundrum! I came in as an E1 now an E4 I have been to the board already and out of 5 who were supposed to go I was the only one who made it however politics took place, and if the the chain of cmd can figure out what is going on I'll be going on it again real soon.

Anyways I have seen since been here young pups with E5 rank little experience in a leadership area and when they get to the rank of Sgt I have noticed alot of them power trip. But this is about if the board is a good way to get promoted, I say NO it is a far cry from a worthy way of promoting senior privates who have little experience to Sgt rank. End of the day when it comes to looking up on how to do things paperwork wise you look up the ADP which I'm sure by now they are all over the net. If they still can't find what they are looking for then hell they can ask a peer or a senior at the end of the day we are meant to be a team and more so a brotherhood especially within the realm of the Infanteers. You can learn some of this stuff when you go to WLC I'm sure. So why not have a trade specific promotion course!!! Example and god help me for giving this away, an Infantry battalion should pick out say 8 E4s (or however many they deem necessary) from each company and put them on an in house leadership and tactics cadre. This can last as long as the unit deems necessary but generally 3-6 weeks. Here's a rough idea on how it would run. 1st week you would do a series of written tests on the basic soldiering i.e weapons, orders, and tactics etc, also include a series of PT Tests APFT, an individual 12mile ruck. In this week, in between doing all this fun stuff you would go through Army and Battalion policy's, including things like Sharp and Equal ops.
2nd week would involve teaching and then having the potentials give a lesson on rifle or foot drill and have them march a squad or platoon round for a series of given movements. Also in this week would be revision lessons on how to present orders in the field be it the full shabang or fragos, and also have them give a lesson on two different weapon systems to their squad.
Final week or weeks, into the field with given scenarios example recce's, Ambushes, Fighting Patrols, Squad and Platoon attacks, taking out the enemy in different terrains such as open field areas, forestry blocks and building and room clearing. However they are not been tested as a E5 they are been tested as Squad Leader, They must complete patrol reports, traces of maps of routes and relevent info found after recce patrols once they have been out so their platoon cmdr sorry PL knows whats what however everything is scored.

The top student is promoted there and then at the end of the course and then over the following 3 months the following 10 are promoted everyone else as to re-show.

You would have 1 PL and an actual SSGT for for each of the squads on the promotion course. You would obviously also need the relevant rank for administration purposes i.e organizing transport, food, ammo etc.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-08-11T21:41:34-04:00

I believe that there should be a one process due for all mos's so either we stick with having boards or do away with them completely. I have seen my fair share of nco's that could remember all the AR'S and FM'S but didn't know crap about their job but the working soldier that couldn't remember that stuff got looked over even though he knew his job and could out perform his nco. I was that soldier and could still out perform most ncos out there just cause we do not have book smarts does not mean we are less qualified to lead soldiers.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-08-11T21:48:13-04:00

I am in the Trial Defense Team, and though I have 18 months TIS and TIG because I came in with a Bachelors, I cannot get promoted to SGT unless I change units because of the slot I am in. I have kicked serious butt for my unit, going above and beyond what has been asked. Our Chief Paralegal even told NGB that I should be given E5 but the current allotment is jacked up. I feel like merit should be a huge factor in Promotions and if you have proven yourself to your command that a board is a little unnecessary.

Besides even if you have a soldier "automatically" promoted, if they are inefficiencies show, the rank can be taken away.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 10:17 PM

2015-08-11T22:17:30-04:00

Article 131 Perjury, False Statement
Max punishment Dishonorable Discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and up to 5 years confinement
(If signed statement)
Article 80 Attempts
Same max punishment but signature not as necessary

This is in states where Courts Martial and UCMJ are used. Otherwise look at OTH and reduction.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 11:13 PM

2015-08-11T23:13:05-04:00

Being a SPC who recently made SGT without going to board (along with two other individuals in my unit), I would have to say that a board is needed - even in the reserves. I did not reclass to a new MOS, rather I had just been on a list of promotable E-4. I have gone to a board in the past (and failed - not competitive enough at the time). Since then I have been a squad leader and learned many skills I did not have previously. So, while I personally may fair well enough, I cannot say the say the same for my peers that got promoted with me. I feel that not having the experience at the board encourages a lack of motivation to learn necessary information. Am I complaining about my promotion? No. Did I turn down my promotion? No. But, I didn't put in a packet or go to a board asking for it either.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 1:17 AM

2015-08-12T01:17:19-04:00

The fact is our peomotion system is busted. We have for decades struggled to find an efficient way to promote "Leaders". Paper boards don't work any better than a live appearance board. Too little is left up to the soldiers first line leader and unit leadership. You know the folks who know the soldier best. Too much is left up to the soldiers record. I don't want leaders working under me that aren't ready. Let me as a senior NCO select my junior NCOs and judge my leadership on the performance of my Detachment.

Response by SPC Alexander Brandt made Aug 12 at 2015 4:41 AM

2015-08-12T04:41:17-04:00

Although I've doubtless less time in service than most other people here, I've seen enough NCOs to convince me the board accomplishes nothing. It demonstrates the ability to memorize Army jargon and stand and rigidly in front of people with enough power to curl you around their finger and snap your worthless career in half.

What buggers me the most is how so many NCOs just didn't know the job they were in charge of. It's become common occurrence for a SGT to point to something in the motorpool and say, "This needs to be done," before standing off to the side and snickering with the SSGs. I'd rather there be a promotion system based on job knowledge and performance, similar to the Air Force.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 7:11 AM

2015-08-12T07:11:07-04:00

In my prior service i "worked" my way up the lower enlisted ranks. Back then as an E-4, first you would go to PLDC. I went in front of a board and got my E-5 rank. I think it should still be this way because what i see now when i came back in are some E-5s that i feel are not knowledgable and ready enough to be a leader. Back then you earned your rank and kept it! Nowdays there are slots. So you sometimes lose your Nco rank if the slot is filled by another Nco is my understanding or if you mess up of course you should not keep the Nco rank. I have been an Nco E-5 in my prior service but being out too long from when i got out before, is why i am an E-4 again. So i have to do it all over again. I don't have to do PLDC, now called SSD1. When you change mos, no they should not be automatically promoted. Still look very hard at their leadership skills that they learn as an E-4. Question them!! Board them!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 7:22 AM

2015-08-12T07:22:05-04:00

Reserve units don't go on a board anyway, their packet does. I put a packet in and was passed up by the automatic process.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 7:38 AM

2015-08-12T07:38:17-04:00

In the reserves the TPUs (part-timers) do paper board, but that is far from automatic. Did these Soldiers who got automaticallly promoted to E-5 do something at school that made them SGTs? Like a WLC and leadership test? If they failed then they failed the course and did not get promoted? Or was it just a recruitment tool?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-08-12T09:19:32-04:00

Boards are important, besides reviewing a packet a first look at the applicant is worth 1000 words. It analysis Character this way. Boards are important in the selection of all jr promotion along with Sr grade. Anyone can look good on paper but in person tells a different story the truth.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 11:10 AM

2015-08-12T11:10:43-04:00

It was my understanding that in order to get E5 you had to put in a promotion packet. Well, apparently that is not the case. I completed SSD1 a year ago and WLC this past June. I was handed automatic E5 orders last drill after completing weapons qualification. I hadn't even had a chance to even get the packet together. Apparently, they cut E5 orders as long as you have the required points and perquisites. Anyone else get E5 without a promotion packet?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-08-12T15:45:53-04:00

I boarded for both SGT and SSG and this is my assessment after spending 7 years of a 13 year career in an MOS where upon completion of the school E4s are guaranteed E5.

This needs to be either done away with or seriously revamped.

The requisite training, knowledge, and experience required to become an NCO isn't provided and although, yes, we're "supposed to mentor and guide" newly pinned SGTs in the CI field, there are many skills, mannerisms, and base levels of knowledge and discipline that should be ingrained in a Soldier prior to ever being considered to wear stripes.

In my MOS's case, I understand the original intent behind doing this, but the execution is terrible. The original intent was that all agents should be NCOs - which sounds great on paper and makes sense with the myriad tasks we have to accomplish and level of autonomy we frequently operate with. However, there are quite a few auto-5s I've worked with and around who've shown that they would have greatly benefited from a bit more time as a Specialist or even a Corporal and some grooming from a seasoned NCO.

Just my two cents.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 5:33 PM

2015-08-12T17:33:09-04:00

This is one of those standards and traditions that should be uncompromised. Promotion to SERGEANT is the first gate that an individual have to go through with leaders in his/her immediate chain of responsibility. They know the Soldier's talents, capabilities, and performance. There is no B.S.-ing your way through this event. Promotion to SGT and SSG are the only remaining times where the unit leadership get to select individuals from their units whom they believe will be strong leaders and have a bright future in the Army. I believe automatic promotions to either of the aforementioned ranks should not happen. An individual SHOULD NOT get a bye just because they change MOS. If there is a loophole, close it. Put a mandatory period of 6-9 months probation after an MOS change for evaluation of performance and potential before eligibility to attend a promotion board. LEADERS can also circumvent this from happening with good counseling that states: "You are under observation for the next (period of time) at the end of this period you will be counseled on your performance and readiness for promotion."
This is a bullet directly form a counseling I gave to a Soldier who came to me as a rehab transfer. He approached me after 1 week and said; "I am eligible for promotion and I want to attend the next promotion board. I haven't been counseled about why I have not been allowed to attend the board ." i promptly counseled him regarding the subject. Needless to say he never attended the board because he was not fit to be a leader.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 10:32 PM

2015-08-12T22:32:16-04:00

I think anyone who wants to be promoted to E-5 has to go to the board. Tired of sergeants taking abuse of their ranks. There's a difference from a sergeant and a NCO. The only time you don't have to go to the board is if you have your Rangers tab.

Response by SPC Geoffrey Jenkins made Aug 14 at 2015 7:43 AM

2015-08-14T07:43:23-04:00

I think all promotable E-4's should go in front of the board to determine if they have what it takes to be an NCO.On my third train up to go to Iraq I had ran into a E-5 who was much younger than me was pushing the lower ranks around.He was using his authority with pure immaturity.I found out later he had gotten a field promotion on his
last tour to Iraq.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 7:30 AM

2015-08-15T07:30:57-04:00

I personally think the board doesn't prepare you for leadership, it only makes you think on your feet, and recite memorized lines. However the issue for automatic promotions shouldn't be one, as the commander still must give a recommendation for promotion. For the most part, commanders don't have one on one interaction with the majority of the E-4's within their command. This being said, they will ask the NCO's who do have contact with them for guidance. So if the Soldier is a dirt bag, a nonproductive member of the unit, or either not ready for a leadership role or not willing to take on responsibilities delegated to he or she the commander will in turn be notified of this and not give a recommendation for promotion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-08-15T15:02:51-04:00

That is a blessing. It may seem a bit unfair, because some of us had to EARN our promotions. That seems like "that's just the way it is". There will always be some who are given things they may not necessarily deserve. I know of situations like that. But to those that join the NCO Corps I say a hearty, "Hooah!" I am right behind you!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-08-16T14:18:30-04:00

One issue that I have heard come up in regards to the automatic promotion, is it takes away involvement / recommendations, from the hands of command. People are being promoted that have zero leadership skills and I see it already causing conflict in smaller units. I think that at least a packet should have to be submitted and have a sign off from those that know the soldiers, such as 1st SGT, PLT SGT ect. Another issue that I've seen first hand, was a soldier that met the requirements but felt he was not ready for E5 yet, that's why he hadn't put in for it yet. Now he has no choice in the matter and is being thrown to the wolves so to speak.

Response by SPC Steven Garcia made Aug 16 at 2015 10:20 PM

2015-08-16T22:20:51-04:00

It's wrong.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 11:37 PM

2015-08-19T23:37:26-04:00

I don't necessarily believe that going to a board or not going to a board determines whether you are going to get a good NCO, but I think there should be something to help determine their worth. In 10 years of thinking about it, I cannot really think of a way to test a Soldier to see if they are ready to become an NCO. I would rather have someone go to the board, but don't necessarily think less of them if they didn't attend the board. I have run into many incompetent NCOs who have been to the board, and while I was a member of a board, I saw guys who I knew were good leaders, but had a bad day at the board.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-09-04T14:58:02-04:00

It should be automatic. I have been a SPC for 5 years plus, and been to the Middle East three years ago and am still not leading soldiers. It is forgotten about by leaders, it should be automatic after a couple of years as a SPC or bring back a SPC 2 or 3 rank for those that have to stay an E4 a while.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 2:59 PM

2015-09-04T14:59:42-04:00

It should be automatic after two years if you are in good standing. For soldiers that have to remain as an E4 SPC, there should be a Spec2 level and Spec 3 level. Soldiers, at least in Reserve units, stay an E4 too ling because they don't know what to do to get promoted beside time in service.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 11:02 AM

2015-09-20T11:02:46-04:00

SPC Drew Hunicutt,
I believe we are doing our junior managers a disservice when we do not se them up for success by conducting face to face boards. The best way to determine if a Specialist or Corporal is ready to become a Non-commissioned officer is through the board introduction, question and answer, and Soldier first impression process. Especially when his or her direct supervisor must personally be present to indorse them.

Response by SGT Felicia King made Oct 1 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-10-01T23:44:08-04:00

I went before the board, and was finally promoted to sergeant when my points dropped to 596. I prefer going to the board because you are generally recommended by a supervisor when you meet all the criteria for that next rank. Plus, going before a board consisting of the CSM and 1SGs is nerve racking, but it's a good experience when you can handle yourself well while under a microscope.

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made Apr 16 at 2016 7:41 PM

2016-04-16T19:41:49-04:00

unfair

Response by SSG Scott Warthan made Apr 17 at 2016 4:06 PM

2016-04-17T16:06:43-04:00

Disagree with this wholeheartedly. I made E5 the first time in 1984. After going to PNCOC(which is what it was before PLDC) and going before a Board in 1983. Train before promote is my belief.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Apr 17 at 2016 4:31 PM

2016-04-17T16:31:59-04:00

Well, I am on the fence on this. When you run into seniors who sound like Jethro Clampit doing math and you wonder how he made it and the guy you'd follow to hell is still a SSG, it makes you question the board process for the top three and officers. Then you run into a board bandit who cannot tie his shoes but can smoke a board since that is what they do. It all depends on the person. Some do great no matter how you promote, some do not. Some are great leaders and look terrible on paper and do poorly at boards. One standard does not fit all like we think it should.

Now, I wonder why you ask. Have you been to the board and and cannot make the points but a former peer made points with no board? Do not hold a grudge, he did not make the rules. I had a Soldier who made the list without the board or recomendation when this came out in 05 or 06. His peers destroyed him and had zero respect for him as a leader because of the board. He was not a bad Soldier but was beat up over the whole deal. He simply had not paid his dues and his peers let him know.

Response by SGT Christopher Premore made Apr 17 at 2016 4:36 PM

2016-04-17T16:36:37-04:00

I don't agree with automatic promotions. I do however believe E7 and about should have to attend a real board as well. The majority of toxic leadership would be weeded out by doing this.

Response by PO1 RIchard Petty made Apr 17 at 2016 4:41 PM

2016-04-17T16:41:08-04:00

There is the difference between the Army, Air Force, & Marines compared to the Navy. We take rating exams and if you have enough points (EVALS, Previous Exams taken, Award points) you are advanced to E-4, E-5 and E-6. To make Chief (E-7) you take a test and if you passed you service record goes to a board and someone in your rate who does not know you presents your record to the Board if you are presented good enough your become part of the Goat Locker. But I have met some people who are book smart but not job smart and vice versa, but there are some who are both and usually they are ones who make Chief. Also, the guys and gals who go to NUKE school come out of school as E-5's and don't know JACK SHIT about being a supervisor to junior personnel that work them once they go the fleet. I wish the Navy would do boards for ranks and include everything evals, recommendations from supervisors, etc.... Needs to be big changes if you lead you should go to a board and go to leadership once you become a Petty Officer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2016 6:52 PM

2016-04-17T18:52:44-04:00

While I think everyone for SGT and SSG should have to attend a board, I also believe the board process needs to be redone. Gone are the days when NCO'S needed to have memorized 99 percent of the AR's. I can look the information up faster in the digital age that we are in and no longer need a bookshelf filled with AR'S on a shelf behind me. All promotion boards should be nothing but situational questions that focus on things that NCO'S encounter on a day to day basis. That is how we should be testing their general knowledge not seeing if they can memorize a bunch of ar numbers and titles.

Response by GySgt Ascencion Gomez, D.S.L. made Apr 17 at 2016 8:45 PM

2016-04-17T20:45:45-04:00

Not in the USMC...if a Cpl is facing a board it should be a meritorious promotion board only.

Response by Sgt John Van Guilder made Apr 17 at 2016 8:51 PM

2016-04-17T20:51:21-04:00

Any promotion to a NCO rank or advancement in the NCO ranks should require a Board review.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Apr 17 at 2016 9:37 PM

2016-04-17T21:37:00-04:00

No more responsibility than most SGT's have and you want to demand a board, but a SFC, MSG, or CSM get by with just their records going before a board for a 3-10 second perusal. Sorry, but that record really doesn't show the toxic leadership traits, the backstabbing, or the utilizing subordinates as step ladders without giving credit when credit was due. Then of course, their is the board itself.. A MOI is put out to tell what the board is looking for, but when the board summary comes out it shows that they havent followed their own instructions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 12:04 AM

2016-04-18T00:04:47-04:00

One of my neighbors is a 12P (Prime Power) and his position was one of those automatic E5 promotion deals.

Do not misunderstand, while he was promoted to E5 without going to a board prior, he is still held accountable by the STEP program. He is currently going through BLC. To my understanding, he was required to go to a board (and has already been).

Due to the requirements of some jobs, an SM must be slotted as a Non-commissioned Officer, and then get that training as soon as possible. Just a different path to the same goal, I suppose.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 6:42 AM

2016-04-18T06:42:52-04:00

I don't think we should have boards. They are pointless and DOES NOT determine someone's leadership. There's plenty of soldiers that don't deserve to be a leader/ NCO but they are because they can memorize a book. Two not all MOSs does Army training because they have to do their MOS to keep everyone happy on post (riggers in 82 Division). So there shouldn't be boards, they are pointless and it definitely does not determine leadership.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Apr 18 at 2016 9:25 AM

2016-04-18T09:25:27-04:00

Is it an incentive to move into the new MOS? Fact is, even folks getting promoted via normal routes don't always make spit hot Sgts. Sometimes you have to grow in your new rank, and if your peers and SNCOs don't pull you aside if your boning the cat then something else is wrong.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Apr 18 at 2016 3:40 PM

2016-04-18T15:40:49-04:00

There are no

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 8:03 PM

2016-04-18T20:03:04-04:00

I was an e-4 for many years because of my mos, and kept on seeing worthless e-4s promoted, after 20 yrs service i LEFT..!!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2016 6:07 AM

2016-04-19T06:07:28-04:00

I believe the board is apart of a right of passage to becoming an NCO. It starts with your leaders believing that you have what it takes mentally and physically and then they send you in front of the members of the board to get evaluated. I know of some good leaders that missed out on the board but my thing is how are they going to prep a soldier for a board if they themselves never expierenced it?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Apr 19 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-04-19T19:56:05-04:00

SSG Bo Bergdahl is doing well w/o having being boarded. He has delayed his court martial for years and has the freedom to travel around CONUS. That is an example! SSG(P) Drew Hunnicutt

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 3:31 AM

2016-04-21T03:31:19-04:00

I came into the ARNG in 2002 and before moving to the Reserve side and commissioning was an NCO and at that time an in-person board was required to promote to E-5. I thought of it as a right of passage that each and every NCO before me had to endure, and it was overall, a good assessment of my ability to think on my feet, show my technical and tactical proficiency, TTPs etc., and also very importantly to show my level of maturity and presence. I would agree with the poster that said most of the SMs complaining about boards are probably not ready to become NCOs, and in my opinion that is clearly illustrated by their lack of understanding the purpose of boarding and what it is the board is trying to assess. That being said, I recall a useful that I haven't seen anyone yet mention, it was a Specialist Evaluation Report, which were set up like real NCOERs, and I found those to be a great tool in helping me prepare to become an NCO and show me the areas in which I needed work. I have not seen these used since and I think that would be a great practice to get back into, in helping to develop our future NCO Corp. I think it may have been a NG specific practice, but unlike their AD counterparts, Reserve Component soldiers don't normally get the amount of regular counseling that they need to mature like they would on Active Duty.

Response by SGT David Petree made Nov 18 at 2016 8:12 PM

2016-11-18T20:12:10-05:00

For me the board was a right of passage. It was what I had been working for 2 years. I was going to be a Sp5. what we did not know at the time was that Sp5 for my MOS was going away. Every thing was set up so that we would make Sp5 then do the NCO Academy then get scouted as a Sgt. That was the way. Auto promo sounds so under handed. The boards are looking for your knowledge. not whether you are a good or bad NCO. that comes later. After you are the NCO in charge.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2017 6:20 PM

2017-03-30T18:20:33-04:00

My first board? SFC. And we don't even attend those. I was a BFIST instructor in Ft. Sill as a PFC and as a SPC. Next thing I know, I'm promoted to SGT and on platform as a 13F instructor. Lasted until TRADOC freaked out about a SGT teaching. But my unit had my back, just couldn't stop me from being moved to USAREC. Where I earned my Recruiting Ring of Excellence and an auto promotion to SSG.

Was I the best NCO ever? No. But I was sure as hell better than most.

Soldiers followed me. Seniors listened to me. Units fought to keep me. I was put in charge of senior ranking members. I was trustworthy and dependable.

This all goes to show it's the individual, period.

Response by SFC Daniel Zelch made Mar 30 at 2017 8:59 PM

2017-03-30T20:59:01-04:00

What in the hell has happened to the Army?When did you start handing out promotions to "Leadership Positions" . What in the hell is an automatic promotion. Leaders are developed, there is no such thing as a born leader. There are some soldiers who have no business in a leadership position, no matter how long they have been in service. To be an NCO, is something that must be earned not gifted. I know times have changed (I've been retired for 16 Years). Apparently I have not fully grasped the damage done to our military during the socialist purge the last 8 years.

Response by 1SG Carlos E Bonet made Mar 30 at 2017 11:32 PM

2017-03-30T23:32:49-04:00

First he needs to be recommended by his supervisor, then he Needs to be boarded finally, the army needs to bring back the SQT

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2017 1:31 PM

2017-04-06T13:31:09-04:00

How is a topic when they stopped auto promotions?

Response by SGT Gerald Duncan made Jul 25 at 2017 8:24 PM

2017-07-25T20:24:51-04:00

Not much

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2017 8:34 PM

2017-07-25T20:34:30-04:00

Not sure about other "automatic" E-5 promotions but one place this happens is with 35L - Counterintelligence Special Agents. Mainly because you have to be an E-5 to be credentialed agent, however you can't apply unless you are at least an E-4. That being said, although its true once you graduate the Counterintelligence Special Agent Course (CISAC), you are automatically promoted to E-5 (and technically without a board), the long applicant process--in my opinion--trumps a simple/single board review. With us, there is an interview process, writing test, detailed background check, etc. And that is only after you meet the initial requirements. Additionally, you still have to pass the course, which many don't. SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 10:08 PM

2018-12-31T22:08:25-05:00

I've been in the reserves 11 years and in that time, unless you're AGR, you didn't appear before a board. You just put a packet together or your UA put your packet together and submitted it. I made my 5 in 3 due to this. I was happy as it afforded me the rank to make changes, albeit small ones and opened my eyes to a lot of. Then the step up program happened and Soldiers were getting pinned who didn't want it, had no plans to re-enlist or was a full fledged member of the E4 mafia that just became an even bigger shitbag upon promotion. The biggest problem to the automatic promotions is when these Soldiers submit their packets for E7 & E8 and the shitbags are placed in PSG and 1SG positions. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A TOXIC LEADERSHIP PROBLEM AND THE AD COMPONENT THINKS WE'RE A JOKE.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 4 at 2019 11:30 AM

2019-08-04T11:30:55-04:00

E5 needs to be strictly on merit, back in the day we didn’t have a board that I was aware of but promotions were based on points. The Company Gunny told me I was the first promotion on points he’s seen in a hell of a long time. Points we’re based off performance reviews ,pt scores, range scores, college courses etc. The points cutoffs were based on need and mos., so they varied wildly and I was an E5 at 3 years and 6 months, and out at 4 years. I wasn’t anything special, I never got in trouble, but I have to admit to short timers blues about the time I was promoted. A peace time military was a hassle imo, it was boring and petty sometimes, like most then I’d be curious about a war time Marine Corps. It’s what you train for.

Response by SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr made Aug 4 at 2019 12:00 PM

2019-08-04T12:00:29-04:00

They become the problem. To them self. To the U.S. Army. To the core of the Sergeant Rank, he is not a leader.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 4 at 2019 12:15 PM

2019-08-04T12:15:49-04:00

I dont think makes sense.

Response by SFC William Fowle made Aug 4 at 2019 12:25 PM

2019-08-04T12:25:17-04:00

Automatic promotion is a risky situation. Promotion boards, if they do the job correctly, are usually a better choice. A promotion board should never be looking for someone who can claverly regurgitate information. They ate supposed to be looking at the recommendations that got the soldier in front of them, and combining that with the soldiers demeanor, knowledge, and appearance, ie; ability to wear the specified ubiform correctly and well.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2019 12:33 PM

2019-08-04T12:33:31-04:00

Because no E5 or above has lost their cool at some point.... people have emotions, and this is part of the reason we have so many suicides in the Military, because were expected to bottle our emotions up and basically turn into robots. Especially once someone picks up NCO they are expected to completely keep their emotions bottled up. Its human nature, and healthy to have emotions. He got pissed off and threw his helmet across the parking lot.... ok.... what led up to that? What is going on in his personal life? Maybe his plate is full? Maybe he needs someone to vent too? But because he showed anger about something doesn't mean he isn't ready to be a NCO....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2019 12:35 PM

2019-08-04T12:35:04-04:00

Plus IMO. Centralized boards are out dated and biased. If the members of the board know you, know your past, and know how you Soldier they already have their minds made up before you even report to the president of the board.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Aug 4 at 2019 1:02 PM

2019-08-04T13:02:04-04:00

I have experience two sides of the promotion board being questioned and questioning. Much of the board is how you answer questions, conduct, uniform, and answers to questions,. Now you might guess I am pro for Promotion boards for lower ranks, Anything can be asked on a Promotion board. My first board I was asked questions from MOS up through Leadership. the one question asked was what is the 5th general order(all soldiers going to the board were ask) 10 of us went to the board 3 failed on that question alone.

Now what I really am saying is that some Soldiers when they don't have an answer get confused or disoriented and have no answer some just make something up to sound good some take some time to answer and are incorrect and some Say I am not exactly sure but I will look it up after the board convenes.

My Company 1SGT. always told the Platoon SGT's and above who was going to the board so they could all drill you with questions up to the day of the board. That helped a lot because you got questions about almost anything.

I am old school and still believe NO board NO promotion. I have read and typed on RP for a couple of years now and it does not take long to figure out those who have walked the walk and the ones that just try to talk the talk. MTC

Response by SPC Randall PeQueen made Aug 4 at 2019 1:34 PM

2019-08-04T13:34:12-04:00

Boards may or may not know whether a person is ready for a leadership position but automatic promotion DAMN SURE DOESN'T know. At least someone in a leadership position has to put you up for it. I exited after the board, which pissed my NCOIC off, but he had to recommend me or I would not have been promoted had I stayed. Yes, someone who has a buddy in the right place can get through when he/she maybe shouldn't have but, again, automatic promotion guarantees that there will be leaders who should not be.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Aug 5 at 2019 8:00 AM

2019-08-05T08:00:39-04:00

I do not remember the use of local boards in the USN. We competed against all of the USN, not just the locals. Not sure the way the US Army promotes using local boards has been working