What do you say to someone who have been in for 10 years or more and there still a E4?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:35:37 -0500

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 14 at 2016 9:41 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:41:17 -0500

"Did you get busted?"

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 9:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:41:54 -0500

Why?

Response by SFC Richard Alonso made Jan 14 at 2016 9:46 PM

SFC Richard Alonso — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:46:30 -0500

Is said troop a sub par soldier or just happy with the sham shield?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 10:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:07:10 -0500

Maybe it's time for that Soldier to move on with another career.

Response by SGT James Sims made Jan 14 at 2016 10:15 PM

SGT James Sims — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:15:39 -0500

You continue to mentor and lead and ask him if he's willing to do what it takes to move on to the next level sometimes people are just happy where they are.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 14 at 2016 10:32 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:32:26 -0500

"Investigate..." and ask if all points are accounted for. I "imagine" at a certain point you can't help but fall off the truck and meet the points requirements if he has all his pre-reqs done. You said 10 years, which leads me to believe he would have swapped units at least 2x.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 10:37 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:37:43 -0500

I thought retention control for E4 was 8 years, am I mistaken?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 10:56 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:56:45 -0500

Unless this E$ has been busted, how can he still be an E4? What is the full story?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 10:59 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:59:36 -0500

You don't say anything. You ask.

"Why?"

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 11:16 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 23:16:19 -0500

Time to reclass or step up your game to show more leadership. Go to any PME that you might have been dodging. I was an E6 in 6 years as an infantry man. I would volunteer for Drill Sergeant if your ability isn't the issue. You must progress in this new Army or you will be thanked for your service and shown the door.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 11:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 23:56:18 -0500

I'm reading allot of comments about mentoring, investigating, asking questions....blah blah blah.

If said soldier is supposedly an infantryman, he is wrong. I'm not meaning to put anyone down but, all that stuff might work in a support MOS but if a soldier doesn't have the where with all to get he 4100 right and step up and show he should be considered as combat leader material then he needs to leave.
After 10 years if he can't figure it out he needs to get out and go someplace where they will spoon feed him.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 12:26 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:26:20 -0500

SFC SAMs,

You don't say anything, you don't ask and you don't compare. The systems in the Army truly do work if applied correctly, which we as a whole (Army) attempt to do day in and day out. I don't believe everyone should be a leader. The Army has transitioned in the several years since I've been in, from an Army winners to an Army of participation/participation awards. B.L.U.F if we return to the Army of old we would be in a better state currently. If you meet your RCP as a Soldier it's time to pack up your things, it's been a great run, but time to go make room for the next Soldier.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jan 15 at 2016 12:35 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:35:39 -0500

Grab a broom Specialist.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Jan 15 at 2016 12:48 AM

SGT Justin Anderson — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:48:02 -0500

Some soldiers are comfortable just being at a certain spot. As long they do their job there shouldn't be a problem. You as an NCO should mentor and teach anyways. Don't get frustrated, he may be fine with that. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jan 15 at 2016 2:04 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 02:04:40 -0500

What do you want to say? Maybe there is nothing to say.

Response by SGT Chris McDaniel made Jan 15 at 2016 7:47 AM

SGT Chris McDaniel — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 07:47:12 -0500

Maybe it's time to look at a different line of work

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 15 at 2016 8:32 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 08:32:49 -0500

I guess I'm not in a position to dictate another's career path, but I have known people who have fought promotion. I'm sure they have their reasons. One I knew happened to really enjoy his job (and was EXTREMELY proficient in it) and a promotion would remove him from it. He had no desire to be an NCO or to be in a leadership position.

I understand that in the Army of old they had a enhanced Specialist ranks, and while I don't have a full understanding of that rank structure, I believe it allowed for technically prominent soldiers to be remain in a non NCO roll but reward them for their expertise. Feel free to polish that definition if I am somewhat off, but assuming my understanding is close enough, it sounds like a good solution for the Army regarding perma-Specialists.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 8:43 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 08:43:48 -0500

I would ask that soldier "Who failed you"? If he or she has a response then I would listen to it and take it from there. However, if there answer is "nobody" then they failed themselves. With all the cuts that continue to go on its just a matter of time before that soldier is put out.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 9:37 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 09:37:39 -0500

Start writing your resume?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 10:35 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:35:26 -0500

At this point and with what has been presented, I don't know enough what to say to the Soldier, so I would propose an intermediate step.
Sit down with him/her and build their promotion packet together. This is an excellent way to see where they're at and sets up subsequent counseling to determine how you will develop the Soldier.
No civilian education? Let's encourage him to enroll and use some of those unused GI bill benefits.
Military education a weak area? Let's get him to a school that helps the unit, like master gunner or unit armorer's course.
PT needs work? Hook him up with a workout plan and meet up a couple times a month to join him.
No awards? Find ways to get him involved in unit training and give him opportunities to excel.

In my experience, Soldiers who do not progress are often just complacent and content to let the Army drive on around them, but ones that are challenged often rise to the occasion.
If you can motivate this cat, you get a big gold star in my leader's book.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 15 at 2016 10:36 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:36:40 -0500

Pack your bags?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 10:59 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:59:08 -0500

"Got into some trouble, did you?"

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 15 at 2016 11:07 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:07:07 -0500

I am a bit confused, last time I check you could only stay in 8 yrs as in E-4. Has this changed?

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Jan 15 at 2016 12:09 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:09:31 -0500

I would say that the E-4 needs to get his priorities figured out. With that much time on, he needs to promote or leave the organization. However, that being said, not everyone is qualified to be an NCO. There are plenty of knucklehead NCO's out there (as with any rank) and we don't need to add to the mix. If he wants to stay in, then he needs to promote. Help him figure out a way to make E-5 happen. If not, then he needs to get out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 12:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:42:20 -0500

Sounds like apathy and laziness. Maybe this individual fears responsibility. I know plenty of soldiers like this in the reserves.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 15 at 2016 1:36 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:36:12 -0500

What do I say?
Mostly "yes I want Fries with that "

There are of course exceptions where a SM might be in such a position as to not be promotable beyond there current control ... Be it a transgression in the past they have personally overcome but professionally unable to, or in an MOS that is a dead end...
But the reality is
If you are at 10plus years and a e4 you are choosing that.. Choice by not separating and finding a new career path, choice to act I'm such a way that none of your COC is willing to promote you or some other personal decision or choice that put that SM in that position

Response by SGT Andrew Goetsch made Jan 16 at 2016 4:55 PM

SGT Andrew Goetsch — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:55:51 -0500

Depends on how many times he's made E-4.

Response by SPC David Glines made Jan 17 at 2016 12:19 AM

SPC David Glines — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:19:12 -0500

Move up or move out doesn't the military still have a max time in grade were if your not promoted to sgt you have to get out I remember something like that while I was in I could be wrong but I do remember something like that

Response by SPC Bobby Coble made Jan 17 at 2016 9:55 AM

SPC Bobby Coble — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:55:38 -0500

Perhaps due to his responsibilities on the civilian side, he might not be able to take the time off to attend the WLC or what ever PLDC is called these days. He may enjoy his unit and job, and not see the change that goes along with a promotion to be worth it. (going to a new unit, different location, etc.) I wouldn't be quick to criticize until you understand the Soldier's background.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2017 9:09 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:09:54 -0400

I wish I knew back then what I know now, Do some research. There is a process called the Army Enlisted Promotion system. Research, Research, Research. Find your fight tools and use them to earn your way up. Learn as much as you can from the army study guide you never know when you will go to a board evaluation and those tools will help you. all these resources are online and downloadable.

Response by SPC Andy Mineo made Mar 27 at 2018 2:28 PM

SPC Andy Mineo — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 14:28:44 -0400

E4 Mafia for life lol