What do non-combatants do when under attack or an ambush?

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:18:48 -0400

How often would you say if ever do non combat roles get attacked or ambushed while deployed and if so do non combat roles exactly do in terms of organizing and fighting back or withdrawing? This might be random but this question popped in my head and I'm just curious.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Apr 1 at 2018 9:21 PM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:21:24 -0400

Depends on mission. If you are convoy chances. There is no non combat in today's engagements.

Response by SPC Jovani Daviu made Apr 1 at 2018 9:30 PM

SPC Jovani Daviu — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:30:44 -0400

I am sorry but this question is hilarious. Non combat roles? In war? You are given the fundamentals in BCT of how to be a soldier first. Your MOS comes second. Your a trained fighting machine regardless what your job duty is. We are not trained to "withdraw". I hope and pray I am not deployed with soldiers with this type question in their minds.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Apr 1 at 2018 9:32 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:32:13 -0400

They fight back and defend themselves.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 9:38 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:38:53 -0400

Don't get me wrong I would fight back I just heard someone say that non combat troops would withdraw in some situations instead of fight and I didn't think it was true so I came here.

Response by TSgt David L. made Apr 1 at 2018 9:44 PM

TSgt David L. — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:44:27 -0400

They do the same thing that atheists do when their house gets broken in to, pray for someone with a gun to help them.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 1 at 2018 9:49 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:49:26 -0400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOxiwGLAkY

Gentlemen, prepare to defend yourself!

Gentlemen, prepare to defend yourself! Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley in We were soldiers. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0277434/

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 9:58 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:58:52 -0400

NON- Combat Role what is that, in todays world especially when in a real combat zone today. There is reason the term non combative is going away and training is changing, to change mind set of troops. There was a time in Iraq that almost anyone could come under fire at any time in any situation. They had QM's and MP's running a lot of Security convoy operations and escorts like security for TCN convoys and other type convoys, so any troop any time in todays battle field. Most troops would not run, you do what your trained to do and that is fight. By the way it is Combat, Combat Support and Combat Service Support. Combat Service Support would be less likely to be engaged and or engage the enemy, but still can, and some have in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 1 at 2018 10:36 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 22:36:39 -0400

First and foremost, Commanders determine when and how those non-combatants in their area of operations, is those the theater commander has allowed to accompany troops, are exposed to risk. Others entering the combat zone on their own can only expect care and protection on an in extremis basis.

the Commander assigns a non-Combatant to a group of soldiers while on a mission outside the wire. There has to be a task and purpose to their presence other than tactical tourism. I saw an incident in 2011 where a female civilian advisor and a law enforcement advisor were out on a patrol, dismounted in a crowded market, when an insurgent doused her with an accelerant and emoliated her. Was there anything that could have been done? Unlikely. The patrol was with her and had her teamed with someone who was armed. In the blink of an eye, it was done.

Normally, the subordinate commander or person in charge (like a SSG leading a patrol) spends time upfront rehearsing what to do, where to go. Tactics, techniques and procedures vary based on ROE, environment, mission, and threat. You can get a sense from Sebastian Junger's "War". I was assigned to,provide a personal protection detail to a DA Civilian. I used my Company HQ as a PErsonal Security Detachment and we took her where she needed to go and covered her to ensure she was safe. We rehearsed react to contact drills and bump drills between vehicles among many things. Stuff was straight among the trigger pullers before we included her.

Official imbedded media underwent media preparation by the US military to teach them as best they could for reaction drills, IMT, etc. the government civilians usually go through theater specific training. The key is integrating them in the unit SOP when they show up.

I can't get in too much more detail due to OPSEC. If you inherit one on a deployment, assume they know nothing and integrate them. They can render aid. They can observe areas in and around the vehicle, let them know what threats look like. Dismounting vehicle drills. Roll over drills. Helping with vehicle house keeping and tie downs. A .50 caliber can can knock their block off just like yours. They should not be handling weapons/munitions unless it is covered in the established ROE and they are trained on it.

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 1 at 2018 10:41 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 22:41:40 -0400

Their job.

Non-combatants has a specific meaning: a person who is not engaged in fighting during a war, especially a civilian, chaplain, or medical practitioner; also those former combatants who are incapable of resistance because of injuries or choice.

I assume you are talking about non-combat arms MOS's. With very few exceptions, you pick up the weapon you were issued and think of the training you were given and you fight. Some MOS's like Corpsmen/medics and Chaplains tend to the wounded and dying. If you curl up in the fetal position, soil your undies, and refuse to fight, or pack it in and head for the rear without receiving orders to do so, better hope I die in the fight. Article 99 UCMJ.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Apr 2 at 2018 6:07 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 06:07:49 -0400

Do what you were trained to do in basic, defend your equipment, and comrades.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 6:22 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 06:22:38 -0400

Shoot back? Everyone but a chaplain carries a sidearm - he has a chaplain assistant as a bodyguard

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 8:42 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 08:42:20 -0400

A bullet knows no MOS.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 8:54 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 08:54:33 -0400

Assuming that what you mean is non-combat arms MOSs vs actual non-combatants - that have specific roles and limitations under the Geneva Conventions - you shoot back.
Everything is situation-based, but if you can you gain fire superiority and bug out to conserve your forces. If unable to withdraw, you fight to defeat the enemy attacking you. If unable to defeat the enemy with what you have, you try to at least fight them to a stalemate until the QRF can get to you.

We are in a war with enemies that just love to go after CS and CSS guys because they are softer targets. Best be ready when and if they come looking for you.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 2 at 2018 12:10 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 12:10:05 -0400

Although I was trained as an infantry officer, the Army saw fit to place me in a non-combat role (Adjutant) and suffer the humiliation (and guilt) of seeing my classmates march into the face of enemy fire while I fought the red tape. I was infuriated when I saw senior officers, whenever displeased, threatening junior enlisted with reassignment to a combat platoon as punishment for minor infractions. (BTW, many of the enlisted assigned to our division headquarters were twice-wounded in combat) One of our Admin Co commanders (reassigned there after botching an action in combat) made no secret of his disdain for the men in his new command. One day, one of our vehicles became disabled while attempting to return to the div hq base camp just about sunset and he had no clue as to what to do. I offered to round up some volunteers to go and secure the vehicle until morning and his sneer clearly demonstrated that I wouldn't find any. Well, the word quickly spread and when he walked out the door of his office, he found me performing a weapons inspection on a long, long line of volunteers. Everybody, including cooks armed with M-16's and butchers knives, had answered the call. Thankfully, he shut up until reassigned.

Response by SGT David T. made Apr 2 at 2018 12:24 PM

SGT David T. — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 12:24:08 -0400

It depends on their function and the situation. Generally, our procedure (I drove fuel trucks) was punch it and get out of the area. The supplies getting where they needed to go was more important than chasing them down.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 2 at 2018 9:13 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:13:52 -0400

Normally they DIE!, Non-combatants normally have no weapons, so they make like Rabbits and hope to live, while we die buying them time to escape.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 2:44 AM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 02:44:23 -0400

Based on your follow up response, it seems that you are confusing non-combat arms with non-combatant. As mentioned already non-combatants are Soldiers like medics and chaplains.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 4:05 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:05:25 -0400

This has been purely theoretical on my part, so I can’t speak from experience.

As chaplains are non-combatants, we are not authorized to carry sidearms or rifles. Now, some have. Navy Chaplain and Medal of Honor recipient Capodonno carried one in Vietnam, but he never used it. When the bullets hit, he was tending to the wounded, and was actually killed dragging a wounded Marine out of the fight to get to an aid station.

On the other hand, I’ve heard of an Army chaplain who got the Slver Star for directing his units fire in a combat situation.....he also got court-martialed for participating offensively in a fight (I.e. carrying and using a weapon).

Course, most chaplains and medics are in the field with a combat unit in circumstances similar to what you’re describing. Some may run and hide, other may do a Desmond Doss....

Since I’m not Army, I can’t answer that aspect. But in the Navy, on ships in combat, chaplains (only non-combatants I can actually speak for) are stationed in sickbay during general quarters. Or, you get guys like Chaplain O’Callahan, Medal of Honor in WWII, who did things from rescuing trapped crewmen to directing disposal of ordinance over the side of the ship so it wouldn’t blow up (USS Franklin during Okinawa, took several kamikaze hits).

So, wide range of answers. Individual s embedded with a combat arms unit would (maybe) do differently than a combat support unit. Sorry, I’m not terribly familiar with Army terminology there.

I guess the answers vary as widely as it does for individuals in a combat arms unit....what does any individual do when in combat?