What discourages enlisted rank veterans from white-collar careers?

Sgt Matt Medhat — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:49:34 -0400

This article raises some valid points about corporations giving an edge to officer rank veterans. I agree that there are more obstacles facing enlisted rank veterans transitioning into a white-collar environment, but is it always the corporations fault? Many enlisted veterans that I know, even after college, choose the blue-collar route. I don't believe enlisted rank veterans give white-collar career fields a fair chance after service. As an enlisted rank veteran that has worked for two corporations, I have noticed that veterans (officer and enlisted) are in high demand. With the large number of career fairs and recruitment initiatives aimed at veterans, I have to think there is a missing component when dealing with enlisted rank veterans. Do enlisted vets even want these jobs? Are they not putting in the effort to build their resume? Do they know how to effectively translate their skills (soft skills vs. hard skills)? Overall, there are many great blue and white collar careers for vets to choose from, but I would love to see more enlisted vets at the water cooler. - Matt Medhat, 0331 - Kilo Co. 3/1 USMC

The Single Most Devastating Flaw In Hiring Veterans

Were you enlisted or a commissioned officer? As of September, the unemployment rate among post 9-11 veterans is 9.1%. While lower than the 11.7% from a year ago, it's still significantly higher than the unemployment rate of non-veterans, which currently sits at 7.4%. Toamelioratethis gap, private and public institutions are making [...]

Response by PV2 Benjamin Niles made Jul 17 at 2015 12:52 PM

PV2 Benjamin Niles — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:52:27 -0400

If I could go white collar, I would. Regardless of my degree, certifications, and additional schooling.. I never seem to get a call back.

Response by CPL(P) Bret Farritor made Jul 17 at 2015 12:58 PM

CPL(P) Bret Farritor — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:58:45 -0400

Outstanding thread! Thank you!

Response by SSG Izzy Abbass made Jul 17 at 2015 1:09 PM

SSG Izzy Abbass — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 13:09:28 -0400

I think it's a combination of feeling like the might not be qualified (which they probably are for a lot), not having a good strategy in applying (TAP produced resumes are not good for the civilian sector) and not doing a good job on their personal branding (which is why they don't get the interviews).

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 17 at 2015 1:30 PM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 13:30:02 -0400

Sgt Matt Medhat, some of us enlisted veterans/retirees PREFER blue collar jobs.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made Jul 17 at 2015 1:47 PM

SPC Jeffrey Bly — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 13:47:14 -0400

Youth for a start as mostly lower ranks only serve one term. 2nd, higher rank enlisted are bred for the workhorse mentality. Maybe if we were shown our actual worth we could build better futures.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Jul 17 at 2015 2:03 PM

CPO Joseph Grant — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 14:03:13 -0400

I personally agree with PO1 Miller. I'm proud of my tech expertise, only needed MOTU twice in 20 Years. I'm not White Collar/Officer material. As the old joke goes I knew Both of my parents and I work for a living.

I did staff duty once as a Chief and flushed my career. I'm a Chief, not a paper pusher

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2015 2:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 14:06:19 -0400

I am such person that am an enlisted person, but have a white collar job. Most other vets at my job is are officers. It can be intimidating, I totally can see that side of it - for me it has never been a problem though.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Jul 17 at 2015 2:16 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 14:16:45 -0400

It appears that the American public has a misconception about officers and enlisted when it comes to leadership capabilities. Educating this organizations and having veterans advocate to companies to reduce this negative stigma would help our former enlisted servicemembers get these jobs. When we state our Veteran status on a job application, is there any law that states we have to say what our previous rank was? I would omit this information in order to get a fair review, if possible.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2015 10:43 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:43:16 -0400

There's also the corporations themselves, which may be led by people who have the "Hollywood" understanding of the military. They see enlisted soldiers as "dumb knuckle-draggers" and officers as dynamic thinkers. Even competent NCOs in movies are portrayed as coarse, gruff, and not knuckling to authority or making an officer look stupid, which no boss wants. These pop-culture views of service personnel enter the subconscious, and in a society where maybe 1% of the people actually serve, there aren't many of us out there to counter the stereotypes.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2015 11:05 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:05:24 -0400

The numbers don't necessarily show the whole issue. A large number of those leaving service are younger enlisted without the higher education of the officers. This diminishes the white collar opportunities for the enlisted Service Members. The higher education is the big separator.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2015 11:27 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:27:32 -0400

I think they would be tired of the politics. All white-collar businesses have political systems within them, and the military does as well. I would think after serving in the service for so long, they would be tired of the political process. The whole good ol' boy system being the driving factor to your success in a business is a major turning point for many, and not just vets.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Jul 18 at 2015 11:34 AM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:34:29 -0400

Honestly, after many job searches, and resume submissions, the biggest deterrence is Human Resources failure to recognize that the enlisted ranks can do a white collar job

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Jul 19 at 2015 10:29 PM

Sgt Ken Prescott — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 22:29:43 -0400

I am disappointed to see that my former employer is now using the enlisted-vs-officer mentality in their hiring decisions. The corporate culture started unraveling after they went public, and it's probably dead by now.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jul 19 at 2015 11:00 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 23:00:07 -0400

I was a white collar employee before I became enlisted in the military.

Response by MSgt Jamie Lyons made Jul 19 at 2015 11:05 PM

MSgt Jamie Lyons — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 23:05:11 -0400

Having a degree doesn't make you smart, it just means you're not stupid.

Response by MSgt Aaron Brite made Jul 19 at 2015 11:26 PM

MSgt Aaron Brite — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 23:26:00 -0400

I am an enlisted in a white collar position. After AD and my bachelor's degree, I started with the company as an environmental coordinator to learn the "environmental management" ropes. The position gave me the time and experience to fill in my military skills and be prepared for adcancemwnt to a white collar. A position that has given me more responsibility than I had in the ANG as a MSgt.
The challenges I faced in the hiring process as enlisted over thw years applying for federal civil service was the "performance of duties equivalent to GS-x" and having the rankor position on the resume. The question always boiled down to a mismatch between the grades. Sure the degree got me to the door (GS-5 or 6) but translation of experience by an E7 to GS-9 or 11 failed to compute. The federal system and its systems seems to have built in this disconnect.

Response by SPC Nathan Acreman made Jul 19 at 2015 11:58 PM

SPC Nathan Acreman — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 23:58:55 -0400

I would love to have a white collar job, but can't get my foot in the door to find one. Today I am a corrections officer, which is fun but not where I imagined myself being.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 20 at 2015 8:24 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:24:30 -0400

I'm a former enlisted who now works a high paying "white-collar" job. No college degree, not even an associates or CCAF. I think these reasons may have to do with the members themselves. Either some enlisted members prefer a "hands on" career, or some sell themselves short. A military skillset/resume can be manipulated to cater to many administrative and office work jobs without lying. One just needs to be able to translate their skill sets correctly for an effective resume.
One may start in an entry level position, but it's very possible to work your way up. Had I started this position when I was 18, I may be an associate or VP by now, but I had to start at the analyst phase.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2015 5:12 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:12:23 -0400

Funny I read this article about 2 months ago. The idea of officer vs enlisted in the civilian sector is based on pure ignorance. I can guarantee there are people on here, officers included, that have served under, beside, or in some other fashion with leaders (enlisted or officer) that should not have been in the positions they held. Officers may be in positions of a higher level of leadership, but, if someone wants to tell me that a Staff NCO who held the billet of platoon sergeant or higher has NO management experience; I am telling them to pound sand. I recently graduated from college after my initial 4 year stint, and have been looking for one of these white collar jobs. The fact is, from what I have seen and the 20 or so applications I have sent out, being a enlisted veteran doesn't really mean much. (cant speak for the officer side). It is all about who you know, if you know someone, then it may give you the upper hand. I have been turned down for every banking job I have applied for so far. All which I met that qualifications for, and some even the preferred qualifications as well. Had my resume looked over by English teachers, mentors, and others who hold similar positions to that I am looking for. The system of online applications these days poses many problems for enlisted military. As mentioned numerous times, we already have to battle the stereotype of "moron" that movies and such portray for us. Apparently a enlisted leader cant make any decisions given what the general public knows. Now with online applications, we cant even meet with employers with our application to show who we really are. As mentioned in the article and others I have read, some companies separate hiring. Enlisted are just good enough to work in call centers and menial desk jobs. Officers on the other hand are fast tracked for management. Somewhere there is a gap in the minds of hiring departments. Until this is dealt with, or unless you know someone, it will continue to be a problem for enlisted to make a transition into this sector. There will always be exceptions, and for then good on you, you got in. I am attending my first career fair in 2 days in hopes that meeting someone while handing my resume to them in person can show them that I am just as competent as anyone else already working for their company and possible more dedicated.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2015 8:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 20:26:34 -0400

Well, as a retiree I will give what I have experienced over the past year. Having a degree does count, but it is knowledge and experience. This is what you have to bring out in your resume. Yes, there is some that may stretch some on the resume but warning, you will be caught during the interview. Companies are looking for: knowledge, experience, and paper (degree, license, etc). I have never been asked about what I scored on my last PT test or how I did on the range.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 12:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 00:29:47 -0400

We're "do-ers." Our job in the Military is to get our hands dirty and get a job done. Not look pretty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 9:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:50:26 -0400

I think one of the problem is how enlisted marketing themselves? Enlisted personal can do white collar jobs. It is not like it was 20yrs ago. Company wanted you for your skills, but now companies are asking what are you offering us? Meaning your experience and skills you are bringing to companies and how will it benefit them.

Response by SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 12:40 AM

SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 00:40:37 -0400

Let's be honest here, a significant number of enlisted servicemembers (particularly junior enlisted) lack the social skills that are required (like it or not) for most white collar jobs. Secondly, most white collar jobs require a college degree which most enlisted servicemembers do not have. Nearly every officer (not including WOs) have at least a four-year degree and management experience that a civilian employer can understand. Why would the employer choose otherwise if they are looking for someone for a general business position? By the way, I would imagine that many if not most of the enlisted servicemembers commenting that they have a "white collar job with no degree" actually have an administrative or clerical job in reality. Best advice I can give is to live in the world as it exists and not the world you think should be.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 24 at 2015 1:55 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:55:03 -0400

Many civilians to include companies have a misconception about service members of both enlisted and officers. I am enlisted, but I am not some in a class system nor am I a second class citizen working to please my commissioned officers. That is not how it works. Some of them believe enlisted do all the laborious work while officers walk about barking out orders. I have met dozens of people who did know that enlisted can go to college and get degrees. Their next question would be, "well why didn't you become an officer" or some other half-brain question. I don't who or what created these enlisted vs. officer systems in the private sector. Maybe it was a prior service officer who wanted to hold power and authority over prior service enlisted. If I had to compete against a prior service office in management in the private sector, I would run circles around him or her.

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels made Aug 6 at 2015 11:39 PM

PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 23:39:14 -0400

I think that most corporations have the mentality that an officer is a good leader and manager because they were an officer. There is the automatic assumption that an officer is a good manager. As BM2 in the Coast Guard, I had more responsibility and manager experience than some of these officers. Yet the officer is considered for white-collar positions because of a rank. It is just like being from a wealthy family. Kids of wealthy families are automatically selected for management positions regardless of whether or not they are a good leader or can even manage their own life. It is the same with officers and enlisted from all branches. At the hight of my career I managed 43 people. That includes their training, their watch schedule, maintenance projects, managing divisions budget, ordering supplies. But when considered for a white collar position. I am told that I do not have the necessary experience. Yet, an officer is giving a similar position who has never actually managed anything other than a command briefing. It is the typical double standard that plagues the world.

But I'm not worried. I have two bachelor's degree and have a goal of one day being a CFO of a company. And mark my words...It will happen.