What did WE learn in OEF/OIF, that is going to help the next generation win against ISIS?

2015-09-12T03:54:27-04:00

Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures are what we talk about and get revised in After Action Reviews, so what are the biggest TTP's that we learned in 7 years of OIF that will help the Millenial Generation fight and win in Iraq for Operation ISIS?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2015 4:29 AM

2015-09-12T04:29:23-04:00

More than can be expressed here. Hearts and Minds! If we go back in, we have to stay for the long hall. Can’t just cut and run when the administration changes. Somebody other than the US needs to be footing the bill. If we are going to be your country building police force, then pay the cost.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2015 4:29 AM

2015-09-12T04:29:52-04:00

It seems we have to be prepared to answer the question 'Why' much more than we ever imagined. Also, we have to shed the legacy attitude WADITW (We always did it that way) I think we have to give them freedom to fail and opportunities to innovate.

Response by TSgt David L. made Sep 12 at 2015 4:33 AM

2015-09-12T04:33:37-04:00

We have learned what our Vietnam brothers learned; the government doesn't have our backs or what's best for our respective services, again. Why do we have to relive the administration repeating the same pull-out of a combat zone before we are done, leaving a vacuum in our wake, AGAIN?!

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 14 at 2015 5:12 AM

2015-09-14T05:12:30-04:00

The millennial generation has already served in Iraq, & Afghanistan the first of them turned 18 in 2001. I have to imagine the majority of the military has been millennials for awhile, its actually my response when people start trashing this generation.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 21 at 2015 7:25 PM

2015-09-21T19:25:35-04:00

We don't know crap about their culture.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Sep 22 at 2015 6:39 AM

2015-09-22T06:39:45-04:00

Have a full, detailed Phase IV plan developed and ready to implement as soon as the majority of the fighting is over. "Make it up as you go" is not a Phase IV plan.

Response by SPC(P) Nathan Stewart made Sep 22 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-09-22T11:54:07-04:00

Don't underestimate the veracity with which your opponent will fight. Don't underestimate their tactics either, they study us just like we study them

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 22 at 2015 12:07 PM

2015-09-22T12:07:36-04:00

We learned quite a bit. That's the good news. The bad news is those people who learned those lessons are being forced out and the Army's letting all that institutional knowledge walk out the door.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-09-22T12:33:13-04:00

Wrong question. People need to understand that ISIS is a direct result of our involvement in Iraq. ISIS is what happens when you oust a numerically inferior/militarily superior authoritative entity (Saddam Hussein/Ba'ath Party) by force of arms, hand over a power vacuum to a numerically superior entity that draws religious and political authority from another country (Shi'a), then completely disenfranchise the former from any involvement in the future political processes. Oh, and topple Qaddafi and ship his armaments to the FSA, where all those disenfranchised Sunnis ended up.

The question you *should* be asking is, "What can we learn in the way of shaping US and western foreign policy in order to avoid such blunders in the future?" To which the answer is to stop electing the same old members of longstanding political dynasties who have more in common with each other than they do with you. And to demand an end to unjustified war predicated on nonexistent reasoning.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-09-22T12:42:51-04:00

Furthermore, it is high time that ISIS is acknowledged for what it *actually* is: ISIS is not a "terrorist group". It is now a full-fledged, legitimate governing entity over the territory it has defined by force; no different than any other country that exists on earth. The ISIS leadership has delegated authority, the same as the US government has. These hierarchies have subordinate leaders that haul away the trash, that run the power plants, clean the water, pay municipal salaries, provide police and emergency services, build roads, etc.....you may not like it. I don't care for ISIS, myself. But you have to think logically and realistically. What is ISIS doing to you? What is ISIS doing to the US? Answer: nothing. There is nothing that ISIS is doing, militarily or economically, that the US government hasn't been doing to the rest of the world, especially the Arab world, for about 100 years now. In fact, ISIS is doing far, far less.

It's time for people to really weigh out what is going on here. Americans live everyday knowing that despotic governments exist on every continent, but media-fueled outrage and manufactured opinion causes them to focus on just one group in particular, because they want so badly to vindicate foreign policy blunders that no one seems to learn from, no matter how often they occur.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 22 at 2015 12:51 PM

2015-09-22T12:51:10-04:00

Stop fighting the last war. I would hope the future leaders look at the forecasts of events throughout the world and have units that are able to deal with the threat (align BDE's/Divisions/Corps with certain areas maybe?), not just through numbers and bullets, but an actual knowledge of the area, it's geographic makeup, history stuff like that (and not crammed into a 30 day field problem before deploying). Stop trying to compete with SOF, and be able to compliment them and vice versa in equipment and some training.

Response by SrA Travis Adams made Sep 22 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-09-22T13:58:43-04:00

For OIF the first thing I realized when I was there during the start was there were not enough people sent over. Compared to previous operations we used overwhelming firepower and forces, thete weren't enough people to help the Iraqis after the main battle elements when theough nor was there a sufficient force to take care of the POWs. Many Iraqi fighters were let go. If we took even half of the forces we took during Desert Storm we could have QRF in place to quickly quell any uprising. We increased our forces in Iraq but i feel it was too late. As for the ISIS part, we should probably look to Vietnam as well as the current 2 wars since Viet Cong blended into the local population. We fought this type of battle before and we were winning in Vietnam, but the public didn't care just like they didn't care about Iraq even though there were chemical weapons found there.

Response by CSM William Payne made Sep 22 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-09-22T14:16:12-04:00

That we cannot change the hearts and minds of people that have been conducting business the same way over thousands of years. You cannot plant the seed of democracy and believe that it will take hold in a decade, when we've been doing it for 239 years and still haven't figured it out. In my time over there I didn't see any George Washingtons, John Adams, Thomas Jeffersons or James Madisons. Heck, we don't have them over here today either. Can you imagine trying to start a country today with the representation we have in Washington today? Should we have gone into Iraq to begin with is a question that will be argued for years to come. Iraq and Suddam posed no direct threat to the United States or our interests in the Middle East at the time of invasion. One of George W. Bush's campaign edicts was that the United States would not be involved in nation building under his administration and that is exactly what we attempted to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. In Afghanistan after the Taliban refused to give up bin Ladin, we should have gone in full force simular to Desert Storm, captured or killed bin Ladin and got the hell out. In Iraq we destabilized the region by deposing Sadam and created the vacuum from which ISIS was born. The unstable situation in Syria provided the fertile atmosphere for ISIS to grow in strength letting it spill back over Iraq, where the government we supported had allowed the country and its military to fall apart due to sectarian differences upon our departure. Staying longer in these countries just increases the hate the other people in the region have for us. Sorry people, but for those that try to compare this with our long term occupation of Japan and Germany after World War II have absolutely know realization of the geopolitical situation in the Milddle East today. Keeping our military in Kuwait and our relationship with the Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm, where bin Ladin was from, was his declared reason for the 9/11 attack let's not forget. Instead of embracing the lessons of Desert Storm we forgot the lessons of Vietnam.

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Sep 22 at 2015 2:26 PM

2015-09-22T14:26:58-04:00

We learned we have to keep out the media. And we learned that most civilians aren't willing to consider the necessary actions needed to win a war, while the enemy is willing to do whatever it takes. Our Enemy learned how to use the Media to save their lives one day, so they can kill another day. And we learned that as we fight on the front line, liberals will allow the enemy into the country, from the back, so the fight is in our backyard. We learned that Americans, as a whole, are so detached from reality, they will protect terrorists.....Most importantly, we relearned that no standing force can defeat Guerrilla Warfare as long as their hands are tied with 'Gentleman Rules' of Combat.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Sep 22 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-09-22T14:35:48-04:00

Finish the job.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 22 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-09-22T15:30:08-04:00

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 22 at 2015 3:38 PM

2015-09-22T15:38:15-04:00

Have a complete battle plan for winning a war that includes exit strategy with a SOFA vs. chew it up, spit it out and leave it until next time.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Sep 22 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-09-22T16:56:09-04:00

What did we learn? Probably nothing. What should we have learned? You can't win a war when the Geneva Conventions are tied around your balls.

Or strategy for dealing with ISIS? Let them take over that whole region with their "convert or die" attitude. Then we can safely assume that everyone there is a member of ISIS so we don't have to feel bad about leveling the entire region.

Response by SPC Dale St. Pierre made Sep 22 at 2015 4:58 PM

2015-09-22T16:58:46-04:00

I know that if we go back, it should be a no holds bared. The whole political objective should be win. Or stay out, the whole pinpoint warfare hasn't worked since it started in Korea. We sacrifice to many for so little.

Response by SPC William Biles made Sep 22 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-09-22T17:01:16-04:00

Don't retreat when winning

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-09-22T18:46:01-04:00

Can we begin with the premise that the only thing we get right 100% of the time is incorrectly predicting and preparing for the next war? We were prepared for HIT, and we got very little of that. We got CI. AWG is one of the best lessons from that conflict and the use of CA.
Personally, I believe we are losing against ISIS. We have failed to adapt. The war is being fought in real time and broadcast on the web and in the media. I believe our Cyber Warfare capability is immature (compared to other nation-states and non-state entities) and fractured. You can kill 10s of thousands with a cyber attack and create mass chaos with a dozen soldiers with the right skills by hacking infrastructure such as power grids, traffic signals and EMS communications. Divisions of troops cannot combat those threats; we do not own those Soldiers. I believe that a few dozen homegrown lone wolves (or coordinated cells) will bring the attack home. Further, we have failed to capitalize and manipulate our enemy's enemy into attacking ISIS (Syria) for fear of the political (in)correctness implications.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 6:49 PM

2015-09-22T18:49:51-04:00

Probably not a topic we should discuss on an open source forum... Just my 2 cents

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Sep 23 at 2015 6:03 AM

2015-09-23T06:03:57-04:00

Don't leave behind any equipment that can be repurposed by our enemies to create terror weapons. Up armored Humvees filled with explosives, used as VBIED's are extremely hard to stop. We didn't leave any useable equipment in the Chosin Reservoir...but we did in Iraq. Terrible waste of assets the enemy quickly employed to their advantage.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Sep 23 at 2015 6:49 AM

2015-09-23T06:49:42-04:00

To fight ISIS, we need to get rid of the bogus limitations that was impose in Iraq. These limitations was stupid and dangerous. For example, if you were taking fire from a mosque, you could not return fire. That was SOP for my unit on Irish. Let the soldiers do what they are trained to do and FIGHT without a brunch of armchair quarterback 6000 miles away that don't know their a** from a hole in the ground telling them how to do it
Let loose the dogs of war and take no prisoners

Response by SPC Donte Hill made Sep 23 at 2015 8:44 AM

2015-09-23T08:44:39-04:00

Don't start a fight if you don't plan to win. Don't fight with people who have no desire to win. Don't use 10 dollars words one dollar sentences.

Response by MSG Matt Inbody made Sep 23 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-09-23T09:30:39-04:00

I agree with several of the other responses. It's 6 of 1 and half dozen of the other. The will to fight on want it is the key. I believe they where to satisfied having us do their work for them.

Response by COL Michael Birchfield made Sep 23 at 2015 9:47 AM

2015-09-23T09:47:10-04:00

That's a very complex question. You can not defeat ISIS by fighting only in Iraq, and in my opinion, a counter insurgency fight simply will not work. MASSIVE fire and maneuver (B-52 iron bomb carpet bombing, battalions of artillery firing on target, in towns, or where ever they attempt to fight or run, NO protected locations, UN RESTRICTED, TOTAL WARFARE, minimal ROE, open the gates of hell on them (read WW II total destruction of the enemy and everything around them and the rest of the world opinion be damned!). OR if you don't want to destroy everything; un mothball all the C-123 tankers that sprayed agent orange, fill them with VX and crop dust everywhere ISIS is, after a few weeks, send all the refugees back their homes. ISIS will NOT surrender, they have to be EXTERMINATED! Until something cataclysmic happens again in the US, by ISIS led/inspiration, the Great American Public (99% that has no skin in the fight to include the politicians)....simply have no will / back bone to do what's necessary to "win".

Response by Cpl Arwen Bernard made Sep 23 at 2015 11:50 AM

2015-09-23T11:50:56-04:00

Here's the thing with IS and all the others like them...they pull people in to their groups not just from the countries they are in but surrounding areas and around the world. We need to (as in all the countries they affect) bomb where they are. Bomb it flat. If the government of a country supports them then cut off all aid to that country, make that country feel as if they are on the moon. Forget tip toeing around trying to be "PC". We need to hit these buggers where it hurts. Also freeze all accounts they may have and give that money to one fund the bombings and troops as well as to help the families they have hurt. Pay back boom.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 3:34 PM

2015-09-23T15:34:18-04:00

Let the Air Force and Navy use air superiority to win.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 23 at 2015 5:31 PM

2015-09-23T17:31:18-04:00

We need to realize that the enemy of our enemy are our friends. We need to monitor the passion of the people, Sunni and Shia. An honest assessment should be made of the host country military, and see how the government is pissing off its citizens. Our Allies should be taken care of us. When the Kurds took back Kobani with a few hundred fighters the DoS said they were of no strategic value to us, then we armed them, then we allowed Turkey to kill them. Our government stopped arming them, but later insinuated they would love an army of Kurds fight ISIS.

Declaring democracy is not winning if the government is toppled. We spend a lot more on rebuilding a country than on fighting insurgents. Building stuff will not necessarily win the hearts of minds of locals.

Response by SGT Michael Heffner made Sep 24 at 2015 5:30 PM

2015-09-24T17:30:31-04:00

That we fought the good fight, But it was a total waste of money, time & most important LIVES.... The Iraqi government & people don't wan to fight to defend themselves, They want others to do it for them, By their guidelines & policies that don't & haven't worked!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-10-02T15:17:21-04:00

Bigger picture, defeating ISIS isn't the issue, we can defeat any relatively small group of insurgents for a time. The counter insurgency fight, made famous by General Petraus has gone out of fashion but is still relevant in todays fight. You have to clear, hold, secure and build over time, provide the proper examples of democracy minus the rampant corruption we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan because at the end of the day, people want a safe place to raise their kids, and to be able to provide for them in some reasonable way in the hope for a better future. It took us 240 years to get where we are and look at the work we still have to do.

Smaller picture, we have a large stable of experienced combat veterans that know how to fight, win and sustain themselves but as time goes by fewer and fewer of them are left to pass along those lessons. I see it every day. Ask any group of soldier who was in when 9-11 happened, then ask again how many have deployed, right. You get my point. Maybe we provide a group of veterans that can stick around as civilian contractors and help pass along their knowledge to the young leaders of today and hopefully enough will listen to stay alive in the next firefight.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 2 at 2015 4:19 PM

2015-10-02T16:19:40-04:00

I don't think we learned the requisite TTPs.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 10:43 PM

2015-12-07T22:43:05-05:00

Personally, I've learned that deploying to give these people a "spanking" and telling them "that's a no no," while telling them what we believe to be right has not worked.

Possible Solution: monitor and accept this shift in power taking place in other countries. Power shifting has been going on since mankind began, but nowadays it is viewed as something new and most terrifying.

I know, some believe we need to kill/capture all the bad guys to scare/tear the population from their wicked influence, then, we all will find peace, harmony, love, respect.