What can you do if a subordinate refuses to conduct corrective training for missing pt?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:44:59 -0400

Subordinate failed to show up for pt, after confronting SM about the issue, SM refused to do corrective training.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2019 10:52 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:52:59 -0400

That's too easy. Fill out the bottom of the counseling. The assessment and show that plan of action was not completed because Sam refused to complete corrective training. Now give SM another counseling for failure to follow orders/ complete tasks.

You are now a counseling away from an Article 15 for failure to comply. Ensure you make them aware of that. As long as the corrective training is reasonable they can not just choose not to complete.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 16 at 2019 11:44 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 11:44:13 -0400

Annotate failure to complete corrective training on their counseling. Refer to CoC for UCMJ action, and drop the hammer on them. Unless you're asking or telling them to do something illegal, unethical or immoral as part of the corrective training they can't refuse to comply with your lawful order.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 16 at 2019 2:08 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 14:08:18 -0400

Failure to Repair (Not at Appointed Place of Duty) and Failure to Obey a Lawful Order/Regulation/Policy both Article 92.
Conduct prejudicial to “Good Order and Military Discipline.” is an Article 134 a much more serious charge and can lead to a recommendation for a General Courts-Marshall is if was done in front of other enlisted.
I only recommended one Art 134 in my career and it was for a soldier that "thought" we were going to war in Europe in the 1980s when several MIGs went after a Cobra gunship on the Crezh Border. He climbed out of his Scout M113 at a stop and started walking towards the unit's rear. The Scout SGT tried to talk him back but he refused. The SGT radioed me and I radioed the 1SG. The 1SG picked him and arrested him under the commander's order. He got a Special Courts-Marshall (lowest the Sqdn Commander was willing to go. Reduction to E1, Six Months in Mannheim Lockup and a DD was the result.
I would have thought that the morale would have been on a downturn after the conviction but the Scouts in my Cavalry Platoon were pleased. The consensus was they felt he abandoned them (true) and would have rather seen him get more time .

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2019 5:19 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 17:19:26 -0400

The most impacting action I have taken was a developmental counseling. The soldier hated it, hated me, cussed me out a bit and I just sat there writing more down. He signed it and left.
He learned his lesson though and seen that a normal "smoking" won't always happen, but he later become one of my go-to soldiers although not in my squad. He just hated being written up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2019 5:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 17:30:22 -0400

Put it on a 4856, and recommend administrative action.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 16 at 2019 8:52 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 20:52:03 -0400

Questions for clarification:
1) Was he aware that he needed to be at the scheduled PT session? If so, how was he made aware, and were there any factors that may have prevented him from being present?

2) What was the corrective training? Although, a subordinate can generally not refuse an order unless it is against regulation or established order (even a verbal order by a senior), potentially harmful to to self (life, limb, or eye), there is an expectation that the corrective training be associated with the infringement. Remember, corrective training is NOT punishment. As NCOs we do not punish, that is a UCMJ function, but we can TRAIN. If the troop believed you were crossing that line (even inadvertently) then they may be correct from a regulatory/legal standpoint but failed to explain the situation to you properly.

Think it through for a second. You have a troop that missed an assignment. They were not at their appointed place at the appointed time in the appointed uniform. That is a textbook AWOL counselling. However, did you INVESTIGATE (you used the term "confront")? Why weren't they there? This is probably the most important question you could ask because it shapes the tone for the rest of the CONVERSATION. It could be as simple as "I was never informed." That's a communication failure or a process failure which requires further investigation (and correction so it doesn't happen again). It could be "I had an appointment" (conflicting orders). It could even be "I have a light/limited duty chit which exempts me from PT." (which may not be correct, but that's what they thought). In all these case, the type of corrective training changes.

Never informed highlights comms breakdown, and the TWO of you can run down where the problem happened together. This is a training opportunity so he knows what to do when he's an NCO. Appoint conflict is also a comms breakdown, but handled slightly differently depending on who neglected to inform you about the appointment (troop tells SSG who should have kept you in the loop vs troop tells you directly). Med chit can be as simple as a conversation "You still need to be there for accountability. We'll find a PT you can do while the rest of us do X" or you can adjust PT so it doesn't conflict with his chit.

All that said, it the troop just said "I ain't doing it" without providing any kind of reason (which you should attempt to ascertain), then write up a second counselling sheet for Insubordination (art 91, and escalate up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2019 9:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:20:33 -0400

Best advice to have when someone is insubordinate - document, document, document. It sucks as a Senior Leader to have to do all the counseling, but it’s the same thing that will save you when you push for further action (UCMJ).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2019 1:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 13:15:57 -0400

Recommend UCMJ

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2019 10:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 22:07:56 -0400

Written counseling for original infraction and failure to perform corrective training sound like support for Art 15.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Oct 3 at 2019 8:00 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Thu, 03 Oct 2019 20:00:58 -0400

Whoa, why didn’t you correct him, or give him proper motivation?

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Oct 3 at 2019 10:36 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Thu, 03 Oct 2019 22:36:20 -0400

Pass it up the chain... everyone hates CPL'S anyways. Especially SP'S.

Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Apr 11 at 2021 7:37 PM

CSM Jerry Weldon — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 19:37:14 -0400

Would you want to be in the foxhole with a soldier who did not follow orders.UCMJ